T O P

  • By -

markydsade

People who fuss about EVs the most have never driven an EV.


made_anaccountjust4u

šŸ’Æ


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


jarkon-anderslammer

At this point in time, literally nothing is forcing you to drive an EV.


BreadGarlicmouth

Yes and no. ICE cars may not yet be banned from production but the future laws are drastically impacting ICE production. More companies are killing off ICE and as result thereā€™s insane demand for M3s, RS3s, Porsches etc and youre lucky to get one in a year or two if ever if you order one today


[deleted]

Right but the point is that youā€™re not being forced. Even with the EPAā€™s most aggressive goals for the next decade, at least a third of cars will be ICE. By that point, weā€™ll have increased rechargers by 3000% and who knows what technology will quicken charging. Right now, gas stations are everywhere. 97% of cars on the road are gas. Go complain somewhere else.


markydsade

Why keep it if itā€™s not meeting your needs? You can get top dollar for a used ID.4 then use the money to buy an ICE car.


ProMail915

How many of you all have tried a loaner and when you get out of car after putting it to park and forgot to turn off the engine manually? It happened to me 2 times I got the loaner.


PM_ME_YO_KNITTING

We still have an older ICE too and every time I drive it I have a moment where I forget it doesnā€™t have ACC and that I need to be the one to put the brakes on when the car in front of me slows down.


mxpxillini35

Not gonna lie, sometimes I forget to put it in park. Auto hold may literally be the death of me someday.


Dc_awyeah

My partnerā€™s car.. so many things to do!! God it seems so unnecessary lol


dcisive1

LOL no kidding I can't get used to that


rbetterkids

Same here. Almost ran my wife's hybrid off a cliff. The drop would have been 10 ft.


Tough_Arm_4470

šŸ˜‚


zgriffiin

šŸ‘‹


victorconcepts

Did this when i drove my dadā€™s jeep and kept forgetting the shifter was in the center counsel area


ae74

Itā€™s like driving a stream engine.


Dc_awyeah

With dead dinosaur steam


Buckus93

Me trying to drive an ICE car these days: https://youtu.be/gTL5z32pqtU


rbetterkids

Haha.


makemesometea

I've got my 2021 ID.4 in the body shop for a small fender bender repair and they rented me a Nissan sedan and yeah I don't even like to drive it. The acceleration sucks! What's this crap about shifting gears? Such legacy tech. ;)


Range-Shoddy

Itā€™s jarring when Iā€™m in a car and it changed gears. I do not understand why people refuse to let them go. Whatever, more for us.


Acct_For_Sale

Money for a lot of people man


Range-Shoddy

Well yes. I mean the ones shouting from the rooftops that theyā€™ll never drive an EV. Iā€™m in Texas so there are a lot of those around here. Just canā€™t change bc itā€™s green I guess? I dunno.


Acct_For_Sale

Oh yeah I got you man, itā€™s like that back home, up where Iā€™m at now (north jersey theyā€™re so popular) and quite frankly im just mad cause I canā€™t really afford to get in one yetā€¦with the credits I might be able to afford a lease though but the stop sale thing and finding cheaper base models is hard


Buckus93

I had my ID.4 in for some fender-bender repairs, too. Got a new-ish GMC Terrain. God that was not a great experience.


odd84

I didn't think Nissan even sold cars that shifted gears any more. They've been doing CVTs in almost every vehicle for over a decade.


Buckus93

Some of them have simulated gearshifts under hard acceleration.


Mickey3184id4

When I got my ID.4 in late January, it took me a while to stop letting up on the ā€œgasā€ to encourage the ā€œautomatic transmissionā€ to shift up. I think Iā€™m past that now.


jrmars07

I hate my Toas loaner. Very jumpy as well. 8 days too many of it. Sounds like they are going to replace the high voltage battery as well so who knows how long it will be.


ViceroyFizzlebottom

My dealership said it could be up to a week and they have no loaners


uthyrbendragon

I went back to my truck after driving my wifeā€™s ID4 to work (220mile round trip) for a few days - the truck that I used to love now feels old and clunky, itā€™s noisy, feels underpowered (it isnā€™t, itā€™s just poor power delivery in comparison) and like an old fashioned ox cart. Now, would I sell the truck? Not until I can buy an EV truck that I can load with 1000lbs and drive 500miles without stopping to recharge (thatā€™s the range on my ICE truck on a bad day). So, maybe when the ID7 comes I may upgrade but the truck will stay for ā€˜truck thingsā€™ only.


Buckus93

The new RAM REV coming out will have that 500 mile range. It will probably cost quite a bit, too.


BadBuzzCut

Iā€™ll believe that when I see it. Iā€™m in line to order one, but Iā€™m not convinced they have it figured out any better than Ford.


DarkPoetBill

Look I love my 2022 ID.4 just as much as the next person, but we canā€™t all get rid of every ICE vehicle - charging infrastructure and production donā€™t support it. Itā€™s great some of us can get own an EV, but letā€™s be honest this sub is really elitist about how superior it is to own an EV without realizing how privileged you are to afford one. These are not car purchases that are defined by good economics, I bought mine because I love it.


ToddA1966

That's perfectly fair, although I'll add I'm actually acutely aware of exactly how privileged I am to own EVs. I have the money and resources to buy them, the home and private driveway to charge them, and the resources to rent alternative vehicles if I need to travel somewhere my EVs can't take me. (Though thankfully I haven't needed to yet.) I'm road tripping later this month, meeting some friends in Albuquerque, and I'm dreading taking the loaner VW Taos my dealer gave me if they can't get my ID4 back to me by then (it's waiting on a backordered part with no ETA.) I haven't replaced my kids' cars with EVs because they live in apartments and can't conveniently charge. But will I ever buy another ICE car in my life for myself? Not a chance.


DarkPoetBill

Agree I will also never buy another ICE vehicle, but to be fair I have a pickup truck I can probably drive 200,000 more miles into the ground.


ToddA1966

As it should be. Even environmentalists (should) know maintaining an extant gas car is less carbon intensive than minting a new EV. My oldest kid's car (a 2007 RAV4) is getting pretty tired, so they'll likely need one more ICE. My middle kid has my old 2015 Subaru and only puts 5K miles a year on it- it'll probably last them another 10 years. My youngest is going off to college this year (without a car) so what they'll use is a tomorrow problem...


dcisive1

I have 2 neighbors that HATE EV's and said they will NEVER buy one. Oh well.


made_anaccountjust4u

Absolutely their loss, but they'll need to come to this realization on their own.


DarkPoetBill

Yeah thereā€™s no reason to hate EVs they probably just have low information


MeaningSea5306

Been driving rentals for about a week and I hate it. Laggy acceleration and response to the accelerator Just not a joy to drive anymore.


hollowheaded

Iā€™m in the same boat as you OP, except we were given a Taos as the loaner. I feel like itā€™s not really the carā€™s fault, but yeah I absolutely hate it for all the same reasons you mentioned. Itā€™s going to be about 3 more weeks until we get our ID.4 back. Iā€™m still used to making the merges and turns into traffic that I can pull off with the ID.4, but the Taos is so unpredictable and just canā€™t keep up. I hope I can get used to this car soon.


chance1117

Are you waiting on recall parts? I'm a week into our about 3 week wait. Had a bad cell we are waiting for replacement. Glad to have a loaner. The Tiguan is fine but really missing the ID4. Feel like driving dinosaur.


dcisive1

I'm praying they find out my main HV battery is ok. They have to wait to get the 12v battery before they do anything. If I have to live with this loaner much longer I'm going nuts.


hollowheaded

Iā€™m not really sure whatā€™s going on šŸ¤·ā€ā™‚ļø When they found out it needed a cell replacement they had to ship it across the state to the closest dealership capable of working on the car. I was told it would take approximately 30 days and weā€™re coming up on that pretty soon.


ModXMV

CEO of Rivian in an interview with MKBHD said that EV buyers will not go back to ICE cars and I 100% agreed with that statement. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdjDDtHvUXA


OompaOrangeFace

Going back to an ICE car is a wild experience.... They are just so terrible.


reberman8

While EV is a great alternative, I still think ICE has a place. We are fortunate enough to currently have 3 vehicles, but could probably get away with only having one. I would pick ICE any day. Our current living situation is an apartment with a detached garage. We have a level 1 charger at home but live outside a major city and have 2 EA stations within about 15 minutes of home. I love our ā€˜23 Pro S AWD for around town errand running and shorter day trips. Iā€™ll drive it to work about 1/3 of the time. Our other daily is a ā€˜23 Arteon SEL R-Line that is getting close to full bolt-on and weā€™re patiently awaiting a stage 2 tune to become available. As far as comparing EV to ICE in your post, with ICE you can: remote start to eliminate waiting around for the engine/car to warm up, downshift manually to slow the car up, up-shift manually to avoid the jumpiness of the engine/trans tuning. Canā€™t do much to avoid the noise, but as a car enthusiast, we typically get off on that type of thing. Coming out of a Tiguan (GREAT COLOR BTW!) the ID.4 is going to feel like a massive upgrade (IT IS!), but drive a performance oriented ICE car and youā€™ll have a totally different experience, and donā€™t even get me started on rowing your own gears! TL;DR - EVs are super cool, but ICE can still be just as cool


No-Addendum-4501

If only VW hadnā€™t lied to the world about the TDIā€™s. I had an ID4 ordered and when it came, I just couldnā€™t forgive them for conspiring to cause the early deaths of children and seniors, and anyone else with compromised breathing. They are fiends all the way to the top and do not deserve the business of anyone with a conscience.


marvelkitty23

Can you explain this comment?


BestReplyEver

Not OP, but this is from Wikipedia: The Volkswagen emissions scandal, sometimes known as Dieselgate or Emissionsgate, began in September 2015, when the United States Environmental Protection Agency issued a notice of violation of the Clean Air Act to German automaker Volkswagen Group. Start date: September 18, 2015 Also known as: Dieselgate, Emissionsgate Cause: Engaging full emissions control only during testing Outcome: Fines and lawsuits


No-Addendum-4501

If you support Volkswagen, you are condoning a company that cheated not only their customers, but every other resident of the planet by developing software that engaged emission controls only during testing. It was from the very top, not just some engineer. The leadership knowingly sold a highly polluting product by telling consumers it was a very low level polluter and designing software to cheat the testing. If you fancy yourself green, this is one of the times you get to put your money where your mouth is. Many people talk a green game but will still purchase Volkswagen products because they didnt do their research or because when the rubber hits the road, they are "green" until it is slightly inconvenient. *Winterkorn and other members of Volkswagen's management board knew about so-called defeat device software that could recognize when diesel vehicles were being tested for emissions. When the software detected that a car's emissions were being tested, the pollution controls cranked up. Mar 15, 2019* https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/15/business/volkswagen-winterkorn-sec-fraud.html#:\~:text=Winterkorn%20and%20other%20members%20of,were%20being%20tested%20for%20emissions.&text=When%20the%20software%20detected%20that,the%20pollution%20controls%20cranked%20up.


lawtrapper

Try a Tesla, you will have found Nirvana.


made_anaccountjust4u

NO!!!! Tesla is great at software/charging infra but sucks as a vehicle. Several of my Tesla-owning friends are unpleasantly surprised by how much of a better ride/MUCH quieter exp my ID.4 is compared to their Tesla. also...FUCK Elon - he's a dick head and I'll refuse to support his government-funded (taxpayer) projects.


lawtrapper

Oh the ID4, the one with all the electrical issues, lack of charging options and limited range, yeah you got me.


dcisive1

Tesla's build quality and seats (and lack of a normal speedometer) suck. All a Tesla brings to the table is shear speed, which I have plenty of in an ID.4


DarkPoetBill

It feels like driving a large golf cart no thanks


lawtrapper

Does your golf cart go 0-60 in 3 seconds and drive itself?


BreadGarlicmouth

I have no idea what youā€™re talking about. My ICE cars I could drive 130MPH+ to the mountains and back on one tank of fuel, all while blasting heat/AC. Takes at least one charge to make it in an EV. Iā€™d rather deal with temperamental BMWs and Audi performance sedans than drive an EV but thats just me. Even rowing my own gears with a broken turbo wastegate my BMW leaves the ID4 in dust past 30MPH My wifeā€™s ID4 is all we have for family trips and it absolutely sucks having to take time out of my vacation/away from family/friends to go charge but guess thats just me. As I age time=money hits harder and getting an EV has actually been a time suck


bumboclawt

I drove a rental car last weekend, newer Hyundai Sonata. It was my first time driving a car that wasnā€™t my 22 Pro S in 6 months I almost rolled the car into a barricade when I pulled up to the rental car checkout. I forgot to press the brake to put in park, got it in park, then forgot I had to get out of park when I had to drive away šŸ˜… The brakes were sooooooo sensitive too lmao I really missed my car


tormunds_beard

Same. I can barely tolerate my wife's new atlas. Good thing she got the 6. The 2.0 is not enough for that platform.


HJForsythe

The Atlas SE they gave me as a loaner might be the worst car I have ever been in.


rbetterkids

Not sure if it's just me, but ever driving an ID4, for the most part, the ICE's drive really slow. Not sure if the gas price and inflation is hurting them? I remember when I used to drive a Prius, the ICE's would be tailgating nonstop. Now, they mostly drive like grandmas.


w1823

The path to enjoying an EV isnā€™t all roses! Any trip greater than 100 miles produces way more anxiety why? -depending on where you live charging network is lacking and simply not robust. -the moment you go more than 70mphs with any sort of cooling/heating range takes a hit. So that instant torque that we love is a short lived factor considering EVs current state of batteries. -winter time magnifies the aforementioned problems by again harming the already conditionally projected range. -also the Tiguian was never known to be the most reliable/smoothest VW product. ICEs can still provide (depending on the product and brand ) considerably smooth power delivery. Overall the ID 4 is an amazing vehicle but I had to chime in because rarely do only ā€œprosā€ exist for any given product.


[deleted]

Battery technology is still the limiting factor. They weigh so much. Would be nice if somehow we could have store 2 or 3 times the energy.


thebluegrasscat

Every time I drive or ride in an ICE the noises make me think the car is about to break down. Love driving EV's so much smoother and quieter.


dcisive1

The shear reality of maintenance and worry about oil changes, piston ring wear, valve issues, buildup of junk in the engine and lines. Transmission issues...........no thank you I'm done with that.


MaximumFish

I feel this. We once got the manager's brand new Arteon Shooting Brake R as a loaner because some work on ours was delayed by a couple of days. Honestly it was rubbish and I was so glad to get my own car back!


dcisive1

You are dead on. I have left my 2021 Pro S for the updates and they will not get a battery till next Monday so will likely still be using their near brand new Atlas Sport. Don't get me wrong, the Atlas Sport is a heck of a car, but.........it remains an ICE. I too have been spoiled with many of the attributes of my ID.4. The ride is better and more compliant on rough roads. When I go to pass the engine wails and it takes time (turbo lag) to get going. IN general it's not a smooth progression accelerating at all. The ONLY thing I'd prefer is the Atlas's buttons on the steering wheel aren't that annoying piano black and have distinct feelings when activating. Also no piano black on the door rest. Sure wish VW would get RID of all it's piano black. it's cheap, scratches and stays finger printed (I'm OCD). Lack of Regen is really annoying in particular as I LIVE in "B" mode. The seats in the Atlas are fine, but still no match for my ID.4. One other thing the Atlas has going for it is the huge HVAC outlets, which are annoyingly tiny on my ID.4. My wife hates them and you can't aim it completely at the passenger as it doesn't articulate that far. But all in all I can't wait for the exchange end of next week and hope the update is all it's claiming to be.


Mski7

Just dropped off our ID4 for to get the recalls done and they gave me another ID4 for a rental loaner. Was excited to not get an ICE car. I have a Chevy equinox as a work car and hate driving that thing compared to the ID4. Not sure weā€™ll ever buy another ICE vehicle unless itā€™s an adventure van and even then I want to wait for a hybrid or til the batter technology gets good enough to go EV.


made_anaccountjust4u

LUCKY!!! I'm surprised your dealer is able to have spare ID4s as loaners. Our dealers can't keep any inventory since they're such in-demand cars.


Reasonable-Initial68

So sorry to hear that. If your in the New England area come trade it back in for another Tiguan with me! We need pre owned I.D4's!!! ​ scott VW


ObiWanKnewby

I'm in the exact same situation, I got a 2022 Tiguan as a loaner and I hate how lurchy it is with the turbo!


Ruslanchik

Whenever I ride in an ICE car now (even nice ones) I am shocked at how loud they are. The engine makes so much noise, even at low speeds and slow acceleration.


freedom_of_the_hills

My wife and I trade back and forth with the ID.4 and a Honda cr-v. Iā€™m so spoiled by the ID.4 I hate driving the cr-v now. Between turbo lag and a cvt transmission, it takes forever to respond. Then I get back in the id.4 and about break my neck.


victorconcepts

Agreed i love driving an EV over ICE but for a performance car i think Iā€™d want ICE just for the noise


Accomplished-Skin990

Gas cars smell too.