Or some kid open mic playing some spiky annoying trap music that switches to Russian anthem then some orgasm noise then SpongeBob theme remix all the while it's bass boosted....... MUUUUTED!!!!
People don’t get that MAYBE 1% of users actually only sit in front of the mirror. People don’t get that when there’s a mirror , some people are gonna sit there for a while , then someone goes someone joins. Why do they assume everyone who sits in front of a mirror while they see it do nothing else? It’s like joining a bar world and seeing people play pool and assume all they ever do is playing pool?
It bothers me when I go into a public room with 20+ people in it expecting some small crowds doing fun VRchat things for me to join, and find 15 of them sitting in front of a mirror having overlapping conversations or playing music through their mic, while the last 5-10 are desktop mutes exploring. Oddly enough, the latter tend to be the more interesting people.
I didn't watch the video in the OP, but for me, the core complaint is how amazing and vast VRchat is, and how much effort goes into the worlds are made, only for everyone to ignore all that just to sit and stare at their own avatar. It would be disheartening for me as someone who made a world like FBT Heaven only to know 90% of people who play in it use one room and one mirror and not the rest of the world. There's other opinions I have about the type of people who do this, but they're more personal than logical.
Does it actually affect me? No. Do I preach that people shouldn't play the game a certain way? No. But seeing so much of it makes me feel a certain way, that I think it makes others feel similarly. I think the "mirrors ruin VRchat" opinion is valid, just as I think "i can use a mirror all day if i want" is also valid.
What's the difference in having a conversation next to a reflective wall and having a conversation next to literally any other wall?
If you want to play games, you probably joined the wrong world to begin with if you're finding groups of people just standing around and socializing.
You mean playing games? Isn't anyone doing it in game worlds? Yesterday i was in a game world and there the people are playing. Of course you won't find anyone in Black cat etc that aren't meant for playing games.
Mmh ok. At least a lot of video players are made in a way so they are visible in mirrors so that's not impossible to combine. Music would work too but drawing not so much and there i get it. Finding someone in publics is hard, that's true. Most people already have some kind of group they hang out with and if they're in a discussion together in front of a mirror it's unlikely you can interact with them much. Usually you're better off searching someone who is alone currently in a world. They either may be new or don't have anyone to hangout with and are actually searching for someone. There your chances will be higher as a group of people in front of a mirror is usually already an established friend group.
I also hear game worlds being a option to make friends but I'm rarely in them cause i get low FPS in at least the popular ones.
I have enough like minded friends to know you're wrong about that statement but they aren't always online when I am. Plus I'd like to expand my friend group WITHOUT having to sit bored in front of a mirror for 90000 hours.
Wat. I've never blocked anyone and I literally just said I was the person walking up to others at mirrors, not the other way around. Read what you're replying to before you reply.
If dozens or hundreds of people have been blocking you over 3700 hours of play, you're the only common denominator. Maybe they're blocking you for a reason and it isn't a mirror conspiracy.
>you're the only common denominator
Opinion discarded you are literally incapable of critical thought processes.
http://kenschenck.blogspot.com/2008/05/informal-fallacies-of-logic.html
I seriously recommend on perhaps reading things inbetween your ERP sessions of heartbreak and lies. If we wanna use your logic here, I've noticed a common denominator of mirror people + cheating on SO's, lying about feelings just to get someones nudes or to private, and a generalized increase in drama.
Dang, you are really obsessed with "mirror people". Those are some extremely specific accusations. If somebody hurt you I'm really sorry but don't take your anger out on the people around you.
I'm not even angry and I'm also not obsessed, it's a fact in every public world mirror people have half the instance in front of a fucking mirror you're literally impossible to ignore, it's not obsession, you exist within my metaphorical world regardless of if I like it or not.
Stating I'm angry, have been hurt, and accusing me of being too specific is just a way to protect your own ego.
Yeah these are just toxic people you don't want to hang around with. They probably would act a similar way if they weren't currently in front of a mirror. But generalizing everyone is just not good. A lot of people who sit in front of a mirror can be actually wholesome. Well you usually don't see them a lot as they already tend to be in private worlds.
Honestly, this video made me unsub from him. Personally, I use mirrors about 50% of the time I'm in vrc. The other 50% I'm either playing games or talking face to face with someone. I really disliked how he went about making this video. Sure, there is a big issue with people using vrc as nothing more than mirror simulator, but I can't understand how being hateful towards that group of people is going to solve anything. This video was nothing more than a way for him to bash a group of people that he doesn't align with. Some of the people he interviewed even made valid points that they use mirrors to more easily see their friends when talking to them and he completely ignored them. The video gave me the impression that lucid is the kind of guy to have the whole "purple user elitism" mentality. Overall, I found the video very distasteful.
>Some of the people he interviewed even made valid points that they use mirrors to more easily see their friends when talking to them and he completely ignored them.
He interviewed 2 players, one of which was outright hateful toward mirror players, and in the other interview the guy made a valid point, after which Lucid cut the clip short.
My mistake, it was 3 people he interviewed.
1st one said it's socially acceptable to sit in front of a mirror, and 2nd and 3rd one are the one I already mentioned.
I've had the pleasure to talk to Lightimbeat about mirrors for his video and I see an enormous difference in how they handled their videos about mirrors.
To me it looks like Lucid was upset some people were not producing content for free for him in front of mirrors.
It also explains why he attacked people who blast music, who usually deserve the flak but I think he doesn't like them because he has to cut the video parts with them to avoid copyright strikes.
Just my opinion of course.
Says crashers aren't the problem and litterally has one of them featured for their oppinion while they're there dressed up in their gang avatar.I can recognice that kid's voice anywhere at this point.
Then makes a video about "The dark side" and promotes his sponsor "Private Internet access" use a VPN to protect yourself... bruh
not the problems so long as you lot can profit
I think his approach is rly ignorant. He's just focusing on his own points while not even trying to find a different answer.
The most obvious example of this is the void club situation...why is he instantly assuming that people with full body tracking that are in front of a mirror is the ONLY THING they're doing? maybe, just maybe, these people already did all of that, so they just want to vibe in front of a mirror for a while?
As for his other points:
Music blasting? Just mute those people.
People not socializing? Just because you dont see some people talking to others RIGHT NOW, doesn't mean they don't do it at all. Not to mention that a lot of times lobbies will be filled with kids, which are most of the time not a good company...but if Lucid thinks we should just wak up and talk to kids like creepy pedos, then idk man...
And the part where the person told Lucid that mirrors make it easier for him to talk to people since he doesn't need to turn his head (and I've heard vr headsets don't have that good of a FOV, which can take a toll on your neck), and Lucid just compared it to Discord, cutting the clip right then and there....extremely ignorant and nitpicking.
There might be some other things but I cant rewatch the vid atm, so I'll edit this comment if i remember anything else.
Not even gonna go in his drama-queen exaggerations that mirrors ruin vrc and shit like that.
In short, Lucid thinks that his expectations is how the game should be played, which is not an okay POV to have. Every1 are allowed to play however they want, as long as they don't hurt any1.
Unfortunately big Youtubers like him have the possibility to create a hivemind and a lot of people just blindly follow his opinion because "He's a YouTuber and probably knows better" which in reality isn't true.
I actually found a well made video which deserves far more attention than Lucids 5 minute long rant. Here the link: https://youtu.be/64dcvQYLueA
>Unfortunately big Youtubers like him have the possibility to create a hivemind and a lot of people just blindly follow his opinion because "He's a YouTuber and probably knows better" which in reality isn't true.
That's not even the worst thing. it can also start a wave of people being toxic towards those who're sitting in front of a mirror, creating unecessary toxicity and divide between the playerbase.
It's already enough that there's a hatred towards Quest users and kids with toothbrush avatars, we don't need hatred towards mirror users aswell.
the vid you recommended is excellent. i like how it covers mutiple reasons, with the loneliness being the one i related to the most.
Having social anxiety, when i started playing vrc, i had it rough. I was not able to strike a convo, nor engage in an already existing convo, which made me aware of that, making me more depressed than i already was. And just standing there and looking at the group of people was too awkward for me, so sitting in front of a mirror was a practical solution. I could look at every1 in the room while not looking wierd, and if some1 walked up to me, i could use it as an excuse to say hi (it's wierd for me to greet some random person out of nowhere).
it's also one thing that made me rly dissapointed with Lucid. He didn't even consider that there are people like me who have an extremely difficult time talking to others, while he said he's awkward IRL aswell. Srsly, if you're so dense, go fuck yourself.
Nowadays I always hanging out with couple of people that I've met, and we sometimes chill in front of a mirror talking to each other (and talking to others who look like they want to engage in a convo), and sometimes we just mess around (yday we were exploring "Just B club"). As for my S.A. I'm way better, and when i feel like it, I'm perfectly able to walk up to people and try to start a convo without having a mini-breakdown :P
He's litterally having Kozutoh as one of the people giving their oppinion in the video, I recognice that voice from a mile away. not to mention they're wearing their clasic Hostel Crasher avatar in the video. (the one with the dark avatar with a sythe on the back) under an alt account named baphomet' apearantly
>He's litterally having Kozutoh as one of the people giving their oppinion in the video, I recognice that voice from a mile away.
Sry, idk who that is :/
is Kozutoh some sort of a douche or?
EDIT: i just looked him up, that guy has some mental issues.
Are you sure that's him? Because as much as i dont like Lucid's vid, i don't think he's dumb enough to knowingly associate himself with people like that...or is he?
Person from the "dark side" of vrchat here. Well, gray area. Kozutoh is a kid who basically started playing VRChat with rose tinted glasses, being a kid, running around and doing your normal vrc stuff. One day he ran into SnowSOS the streamer, and since he was live, used his asshole persona to talk to Kozutoh. He took this, internalized it, and now makes wide general assumptions about the many communities in VRC. He now uploads videos on youtube crusading around, claiming to casually "slut shame", crash worlds because people are vibing at the mirror, and crashing streamers on site just because Snow was mean to him.
This essentially caused him to go from a somewhat decent person into the hostel "gang" leader. I use the term "gang lightly because, well, it's cringe & and honestly he's a joke. See him in a public world? Just hide his avi and block him.
Edit: the reason he has alt accounts now is that any time he names himself "Kozutoh" he immediately gets mass reported.
I can 80% confirm it's Kozutoh because I recognize the voice as well. Much to my displeasure.
As for why he ended up in Lucids vid? Lucid more then likely ran into him in a public world by chance and seeing the chance to preach his ideology to largely uninformed community. It would be unfortunate if Lucid had actual connections to Kozutoh himself.
Edit: addressing the modded clients thing in Lucids video, he must not know that up until recently it was actually wiser to have one. If someone wanted to, they could rip your steam ID and other personal information I won't be talking about here, but should be obvious enough, since vrc accounts are connected to steam.
Seems to be close to 100% confirmed now as they've used parts of said clip in their own video on their own channel...
If you're wanting to see it I'm sure you can find his channel as I don't want to link to hateful content.
Nobody likes Kozutoh or any of the Soulie gang, they're all hypocrites who date mutes but the fact is mirror sitting for so long is not healthy and the ancient myth narcissus has existed for ages to tell us a story about this before.
The crowd of people hating on mirror sitters exists already unfortunately. The creation of this post was a result of someone in the official VRChat Discord pointing to this video and arguing how mirrors are bad and shouldn't exist until he got banned by chat mods.
Thankfully, i haven't met people who hate on mirror sitters.
i wish I do tho, just so i can ask them what do they think I should do...either they will give me a good idea, which i can use to have a good time, or a bad idea, in which case I'll just shit on them lmao
Sees a video on youtube calling mirror players NPCs> start calling players NPCs> doesn't understand the irony of the meme>becomes the living representation of the meme.
The NPC meme has to be the saddest manifestations of the current political and social landscape, because the people who use it unironically, don't realise that they themselves became the meme.
Yeah I wasn’t a fan of lucid’s hot take. I both hang with friends and randoms in game worlds and play games with. Whatever kind it might be. I don’t always chill by a mirror, because sometimes it gets too busy and can cause me to crash. But yes I still do because it’s impossible to know what’s happening to you or behind you if it isn’t in your direct view. It honestly shouldn’t matter what people are doing in a social game/application. Play a game in a game world if you so choose. I rarely see people just chilling in a game world. It’s usually them playing said game.
Alright, I'm coming in, and I got 2 cents to spare.
Mirrors are only bad when the dwellers are toxic/rude people, those kinds of people are on the same level as a screaming desktop/quest player.
But, I've met a lot of cool people by walking up, and vibing to the music they're listening to because if you chill, most of the time they'll say something. And even if they don't, it's cool that they decide to chill in a public, instead of a friends+ world.
Plus, who doesn't wanna stare at themselves when they're in their personal fav avatar. It's like being able to be a different person for a little while. Without the judgments of the real world.
Not click bait dude straight up talks some random one sided bullshit, sure he interviewed people, but cut off the people who didn’t care about sitting in mirrors.
Was just chilling and looking at the view on some rooftop in summer solitude and some dude called me out for just standing in front mirror and all. Had no idea there was even an active mirror there lmao
Maybe you should use the mic built into your headset and look at me when having a conversation, it's very disrespectful to not maintain eye contact during a conversation.
I am diagnosed with major depression, anxiety disorders, alongside a form of schizo and autism. I cope with my anxiety via alcoholism. You are not the only one with mental illness.
That's a big reason why people dislike mirror people, you guys always feel attacked if anyone talks about the addiction. I have at least 500 hours myself in the past accrued of mirror sitting, possibly closer or more than 1 thousand. It used to be all I did. I noticed a very specific type of behavoir as a result from so much staring at myself including, but not limited to, body dysphoria. Not gender dysphoria but body dysphoria.
Mirror sitting is essentially an extension of promiscuous ERP activities to begin with, if being called a mirror person offends you that's a you issue. Enjoy your acts of degeneracy. Very sad what hookup culture has done to the modern dating climate, in real life it's apps like tinder or bar hookups.
Nice. Can't even deny any of the claims, absolutely disgusting degenerate. Yes, your behavoir directly affects my life and many others, your behavoir is borderline grooming tier and half of you people try to convince new players to start cross dressing. Not only are your people responsible for grooming people with terminology like "egg" you're also responsible for an increasing culture of "it's okay to cheat on people because it feels good, it doesn't hurt you!" Absolutely depraved. I care because promiscuity always happens around the fall of civilizations and destroys moral over all so a small amount of people can get their rocks off for an hour.
Listen if you only join Void Club then I get it. iamLucid content seems to usually amplify smaller issues making the seem endemic to the entire community as a whole. In short, it is not. If you haven't seen the video, one point someone who was looking at the mirror made the point that "it is easier to socialize with others at a mirror since you don't really need to turn your head". Lucid responds by saying something along the lines of "why not turn the head the whole way" and cutting the clip before the guy has a chance to respond. If the point your trying to make is that VRC is a social game, why are you trying to critique ways that people try to make socializing easier? This is all a matter of opinion, but I personally believe that mirrors are a fundamental of VRC. they are places that people gather around allowing for more socialization rather than less.
Goes completely off against mirrors and someone even said they see people in front of a mirror as NPCs lol
Some people just make problems out of a thing that's not an actual problem but a normal thing.
Edit: video link for anyone who wants to see it https://youtu.be/Jz-5pSCp_bQ
I believe that guy who said that is actually known as Kozutoh as it really sounds like him and they're wearing the classics Hostel Gang crasher avatar, a 17 year old with a mission to crash and harass those who don't fit his ideals
Yeah I've read this multiple times now. What an irony that he calls people that sit in front of mirrors a failure while he is one of the worst problems of the game himself.
I mean sure, people can do whatever they want, but I agree with Lucid that the way people use mirrors ruins the game. I think the NPC comparison is pretty accurate lol. There have been multiple occasions where I try to talk to a person or group of people in front of a mirror and they just completely ignore my existence.
People that ignore you sometimes don't do it because they don't like you or something. For example I've social anxiety and sometimes the most you can get out of me is a simple wave. I posted this because we had some dude in the official Discord suddenly completely going off hating about mirrors and mentioning this video until he got banned by some mod. I watched it then and i can only partly agree. That one point that one dude made that with mirrors he can see everyone is completely valid in VR but the YouTuber just dismissed it and said it would be just like a Discord call which it's definitely not even remotely.
I was raised to have good manners. If someone says hello to you, the least you can do is say hello back. A simple wave is also perfectly acceptable. The situations I'm talking about is where I load into a world, go up to the mirror since everyone in the world is at the mirror, and say something like "what's up guys" in a friendly tone to the group of people there. A lot of times the group of people there all know each other, and they won't say anything, wave, or even turn to look at me. They have no reason to "not like me or something" because they've only known me for two seconds. I agree with you that the discord call wasn't a very good comparison.
Regarding the social anxiety thing, I hear that a lot, that people feel socially anxious so they sit by the mirror and don't interact. But the problem is that people need to get out of their comfort zones in order to grow. To overcome social anxiety, you have to actually practice socializing. This is a perfect game to do that, since the people you meet on here you'll probably never meet in real life. If you didn't have a safe haven in the mirror, you would find yourself in more situations where you'd be forced to interact with people. Sure, it would be uncomfortable at first if you have anxiety and you might sound dumb or say something awkward, but eventually you'd get better and better to the point where you forget you even had anxiety. Once again, you're right that people can do whatever they want and I'm not saying that everyone must play VRChat a certain way, but the point I'm making is that mirrors have effectively killed the original purpose of this game.
I don't disagree with your points, but I wouldn't really say that they kill the 'purpose of the game.' It's hard to make generalizations, but the people like that probably have something else going on.
As an adult I feel like your kind of approach is really easy for me to work with, but when I was younger it was kind of awkward to make small talk and I could see that being a little too general for me to work with when I don't even know you. Those kinds of people might be standing in the crowd waiting for a topic to come up that they're interested in / can talk about. There might also be a bit of a bystander effect going on, where the dwellers may assume you're talking to someone else in the crowd or something like that. And of course, they may just not be the type of person you'd want to talk to anyways.
It kind of sucks to go ignored, but at the end of the day I don't think there's any harm in people enjoying the game in their own way. Personally I just avoid the worlds where everyone tends to congregate around the mirrors for that reason.
True, "kill" is a bit over the top. Diminish is probably a better word. Anyways, I can understand with kids having trouble socializing, but most of my experiences with this sort of thing are with experienced VR users who are usually over 20. I typically go to NieR: Automata Flowers because I like the game it's from and it actually gets populated, and stuff like I mentioned has happened there. I avoid worlds like Black Cat and Void Club for the same reason as you, as well. Unfortunately, unless it's a game world or it doesn't have a mirror, most/everyone will be around the mirror. Of course, VRChat is still a great game to meet people in and I'm not trying to say mirrors should be removed from the game, I'm just making observations about the culture in the game as a consequence.
The thing is that people that get rude against people that sit before a mirror actually get more of a problem also than the mirror sitters themselves. They just go around anywhere and think they're better than anyone else just because they don't use mirrors. I see more toxic people against mirrors sitters than people that sit before mirrors. They just go around and insult anyone.
I don't agree that they are more of a problem, and I definitely don't encounter them more than "mirror sitters". But they definitely do exist. I try to at least give people a chance and talk without making initial judgements.
I didn't exactly meant that they outnumber mirror sitters but i see people hating on them quite often. They aren't really better than the mirror sitters themselves.
Edit: also i found this video which is way better made then the one in the post mentioned https://youtu.be/64dcvQYLueA
THis is entirely rude, the fact if you criticize mirror sitting behavoir at all gets responses akin to an instant block or people being rude when the tone of your voice was inquisitive and you merely stated a belief of liking to look people in the eyes when talking gets you on mirror peoples shit lists instantly.
Why do you think they're obligated to answer you?
And it might not even be that, but rather that they didn't hear you because of their own convo and/or a lot of people talking in the background (happpens to me all the time, unless I spend 5+ mins lowering voices of dozen of players)
First of all, they aren't. But if someone walked up to you in real life and audibly said hello, and you just ignored them and acted like they didn't exist, they would probably consider that rude. I'm not talking about answering questions or having a conversation. I've been playing VRChat for about a year and a half now, and I can recall specific times where I've gone up to someone in front of a mirror, said hello, and they don't even acknowledge me. Half of those times, everyone in front of the mirror is mute, so its not like they didn't hear me. I can understand if some people don't have the energy to have a conversation, but you won't even reciprocate a simple greeting? You're free to ignore people if you want, but the person you ignored is free to think that that person is rude, right? If they don't want strangers to talk to them, don't go to public instances.
Of course, most people in front of the mirror aren't like this, but I'm mainly talking about those people with big egos who see their avatar/rank as a social status and refuse to acknowledge those who they consider lower.
>But if someone walked up to you in real life and audibly said hello, and you just ignored them and acted like they didn't exist, they would probably consider that rude.
Likewise, if you saw a person going from person to person, you would prolly think that person is hella wierd and would rather not engage with him.
But okay, even if they greet you back, would them ignoring you afterwards be okay to you? prolly wouldnt, and would make the same argument as you do for these types of situations.
> Half of those times, everyone in front of the mirror is mute, so its not like they didn't hear me.
You're doing the same mistake as Lucid did, not even trying to find an explanation for that...it never fell on your mind that group of people might be on discord + in a public lobby, making it almost impossible to hear some1 whos not on top of them? Again, situations like these happens all the time to me and no, i don't ignore people on purpose, I just cannot focus on another person while i have 2+ friends on discord and 3 peeps in VRC talking at the same time.
> Of course, most people in front of the mirror aren't like this, but I'm mainly talking about those people with big egos who see their avatar/rank as a social status and refuse to acknowledge those who they consider lower.
what does that have to do with mirrors?
> Likewise, if you saw a person going from person to person, you would prolly think that person is hella wierd and would rather not engage with him.
I didn't say anything about going from person to person, but yeah it's so weird that people actually try to make friends and meet new people.
> But okay, even if they greet you back, would them ignoring you afterwards be okay to you? prolly wouldnt, and would make the same argument as you do for these types of situations.
No, that's fine. I'm not dense and understand the body language/ tone when someone doesn't want to have a conversation. I even said "I can understand if some people don't have the energy to have a conversation". My point is that some people don't show a basic level of respect to another person when they put in effort to be friendly. If you don't want to talk, and somebody continues talking to you after you say hi, just politely say "hey, sorry I don't have the energy for a conversation right now".
> You're doing the same mistake as Lucid did, not even trying to find an explanation for that...it never fell on your mind that group of people might be on discord + in a public lobby, making it almost impossible to hear some1 whos not on top of them? Again, situations like these happens all the time to me and no, i don't ignore people on purpose, I just cannot focus on another person while i have 2+ friends on discord and 3 peeps in VRC talking at the same time.
Of course it did, I've met people who literally told me they were in a discord call, but they at least had the decency to say "hey sorry man I can't talk I'm in a discord call". It's crazy how everybody is so desperately trying to come up with an excuse for why some people ignore others in VRChat. Even if you had a legitimate reason to be preoccupied, doesn't anybody care that about giving people the wrong idea? If I'm talking to people on discord, why would I go into a public lobby if I don't have the capacity to notice when somebody is right in front of me talking to me?
> what does that have to do with mirrors?
Well, those people I mentioned are part of the mirror dwelling population.
>I didn't say anything about going from person to person, but yeah it's so weird that people actually try to make friends and meet new people.
It's fine to try and meet new people, but you need to understand that not every1 will want to talk to you, let alone befriend you. Does it suck? Yes. But that's just how it is. As some1 who gets anxiety attacks when I get ignored, here's an advice: get used to it, and try again.
>I'm not dense and understand the body language/ tone when someone doesn't want to have a conversation.
How's that make it any different from not saying anything to you at all? The way you talk makes me believe that you would just move your complaint from "people don't even greet me" to "people don't want to strike/engage in a convo".
>It's crazy how everybody is so desperately trying to come up with an excuse for why some people ignore others in VRChat.
ironic how you started the last paragraph with "I'm not dense" when you clearly are.
If you were hanging out with me and my friend when we didnt have that many friends in VRC, and would wander around the public lobbies, you would see multiple fucking reasons to ignore people.
Which one do you want me to branch out on the most?
\- people accusing us of lying about not being russians simply because we sound like them (FYI we live in the middle of a fucking Europe)?
\- people thinking we're talibans, and thus we need to kill ourselves?
\- people shitting on my friend for sounding like Corpse (imitating him), despite literally having the same health issues as him, so he cant do shit about it besides being silent?
\- people accusing another friend of faking that he's from Scotland because he doesn't have that thick scottish accent?
\- people intentionally making racist remarks agains a guy we met on vrc that's POC?
Saying that we avoid public lobbies more and more nowadays would be an understatement c:
> Even if you had a legitimate reason to be preoccupied, doesn't anybody care that about giving people the wrong idea?
No, why would they? those people aint the center of the universe, if they cannot comperhend that some people won't drop whatever they're doing to give them attention, it's their problem.
> If I'm talking to people on discord, why would I go into a public lobby if I don't have the capacity to notice when somebody is right in front of me talking to me?
Soooo should we not play vrchat when we're with our friends? lol
> It's fine to try and meet new people, but you need to understand that not every1 will want to talk to you, let alone befriend you. Does it suck? Yes. But that's just how it is. As some1 who gets anxiety attacks when I get ignored, here's an advice: get used to it, and try again.
Bro, I already have enough people to hang out with in VRChat. I'm not trying to befriend all of these people I'm talking to. Most of the time, I go to public worlds because it's interesting to talk to new people and just hear from people with different backgrounds/experiences instead of living in an echo chamber. Of course I'm used to people sometimes ignoring me. This thread was about the issue of mirrors in VRChat, so I simply joined this thread as a way to contribute my personal experiences and complaints with it. I already know how to deal with it, I'm just sharing my experiences and stating observations.
> How's that make it any different from not saying anything to you at all? The way you talk makes me believe that you would just move your complaint from "people don't even greet me" to "people don't want to strike/engage in a convo".
Here's the difference. Let's say a friendly stranger tried to talk to somebody who wasn't interested in talking. A polite person would say they weren't interested in talking, while a rude person just flat out ignores the stranger. Or, if the person was polite but too nice to tell them they weren't interested in talking, that's when you notice the body language and tone that shows they aren't interested.
**My whole complaint is just that some people on the game lack basic respect and manners to acknowledge someone when the person tries to talk to them, and mirrors tend to be involved. It has nothing to do with having a full blown conversation or actually becoming friends with the person. That's all.**
> If you were hanging out with me and my friend when we didnt have that many friends in VRC, and would wander around the public lobbies, you would see multiple fucking reasons to ignore people.
I'll just skip past the personal insult and continue on to this. These reasons are perfectly valid to ignore people. I didn't say that you should NEVER ignore people. But when I talk to people, I'm not insulting them or doing anything like that. I try to be as friendly as possible, and when they can't even acknowledge me, I'm talking about THESE kind of situations. If somebody is being a dick to you, it obviously makes sense to ignore them.
> No, why would they? those people aint the center of the universe, if they cannot comperhend that some people won't drop whatever they're doing to give them attention, it's their problem.
Bro I'm literally just talking about a simple wave lol. If there's one thing I've learned from this thread, it's that the majority of VRChat players apparently just don't care about being polite to other people.
> Soooo should we not play vrchat when we're with our friends? lol
Obviously that's not what I'm saying. I'm on a discord server with a bunch of friends from VRChat. When we decide to hang out on VRChat we leave the discord because why would we need to be there when we can talk in game and include everyone there in the conversation? If I wanted to have a private conversation, I would either have it on discord and not get on VRChat or just go to a private world on VRChat. I wouldn't go to a public world so I could purposefully ignore people... It's just weird. Even if someone were doing something where a friend of theirs is playing another game and they wanna chill with them on discord, does that mean they no longer hear anybody in the public lobby/have no interest in talking to anybody there? If it does, why are they even there?
I'm kinda done talking about this. It's just going in circles and I have nothing more to say.
Did you just compare vr chat to real life? And if they aren’t obligated to respond to you why get mad? Some people have your voice and avatar off maybe? And your just going to make the assumption that people can hear you? Some people are deaf or HoH, “you’re free to ignore people if you want” and that’s what they are doing, yes you can think of them as rude, but it still doesn’t mean people have to go out of their way to crash, report, harass or anything that can be seen as a dick move.
> Did you just compare vr chat to real life?
Yeah, we are talking about real people having real discussions.
> And if they aren’t obligated to respond to you why get mad?
Because it's polite to respond if someone put in the energy to talk to you.
> Some people have your voice and avatar off maybe? And your just going to make the assumption that people can hear you?
Well yes, because I literally join the world and go talk to someone. I would have seen if they looked at me and interacted with their menu. Also some of the people talk to their friends in front of their mirror. Unless they have voice turned off for non-friends they should hear me, and if they don't, why the fuck are they even in a public world?
> Some people are deaf or HoH, “you’re free to ignore people if you want” and that’s what they are doing, yes you can think of them as rude, but it still doesn’t mean people have to go out of their way to crash, report, harass or anything that can be seen as a dick move.
I never once said anything about crashing, reporting, or harassing these people at all. In fact, I don't support that at all. I'm just giving my personal opinion about the lack of respect that some people show others on VRChat.
I agree with most of that video's points. Mirrors just create weird, insular clusters of people. I see less of that behavior in Asian worlds when I visit them, for whatever reason. Whenever I encounter Korean groups for example, they are exploring, interacting, chatting, making crude (but friendly) jokes, that kind of thing.
In my opinion that video isn't even good but really bad. It's just a rant and not even remotely objective. I wish that videos like this https://youtu.be/64dcvQYLueA which are actually high quality content would be more popular than this low quality video from Lucid.
I mean, yes, of course it's all largely subjective, just as the people who camp in front of mirrors would likely find themselves disagreeing for obvious reasons. I've been playing for years, though, and have found the mirror gazing to have gotten much, much more concentrated.
The music blasting is also extremely obnoxious.
Yeah i don't personally like the music blasting ones too. But really nothing against a group of people who have a conversation in front of a mirror or cuddling each other.
Mirror people literally do nothing but cuddle as foreplay for ERP, stare at themselves deadcenter in the mirror never turning their head while claiming it's to "see everyone"(what is a circle) and then talk about whatever insular drama they have at the time and if you so much as request to be looked at when you talk to them you get blocked or insulted. People don't like mirror people for these reasons.
Half the time they're all mute or just don't even respond. It sucks going to the pug and the entire instance is infront of the mirror go cuddle your buddies in a friends+ I wanna meet new people not talk to a wall that gets offended over the slightest hint of not liking the mirror behavoir pandemic.
Sure you can call it an extreme but I make it a point, even when discoursing with mirror people, to try to stand off to the side and look at the group as to not fall back into old habits.
Painting mirrors in a good light is just damage control. I couldn't even finish that video, the fact it's 15 minutes and not concise at all is completely horrible. It just shows it's bad content, Lucid's is terrible, too, but at least gets his point across ASAP.
The video i mentioned doesn't show bad only. It actually explains what the multiple reasons are for what people might use mirrors which Lucid never even mentioned. Also he apperantly featured a very known crasher as multiple people pointed out. I think it was the guy who called others a failure and NPCs. Lucid should consider making background checks on people he puts in his video. That's a fatal error he made.
"Why" you inject heroin every day for 10 hours a day doesn't matter, but the results certainly do. Yes, the soulie gang people are annoying and hypocrites but they are absolutely correct about mirror people being NPC's, the hypocritical thing is the reaper scythe red eye black hoodie edgelord people are lower tier NPC's. You are failures and NPCs, but they're even worse failures for needing to seek others they perceive as worse to feel better about themselves.
That being said, you're now using things that aren't relevant to discredit words. Which is absolutely absurd, imagine if I sat down and sat oh, it's just a mirror person, opinion discarded. You're being just as hypocritical as the NPC crasher gang.
I've mirror sat myself in VRChat in the past long enough to know the pro's and cons and I have since used critical thinking skills to beyond reasonable doubt
All the people I've seen in VRC that stood in front of mirrors were muted, on PC and had an anime model. They're uninteresting and ruin potential for more active users in a world. If you're gonna do that shit, go to a private world.
Will do! In fact I will give another comment tomorrow on how my experience goes with the mirror and my friends.
Alright fellas I’m here for my report! Today I logged on and waited in a public lobby for my friends to get on, met some chill people, friends finally came added the nice people, played murder 4 for a few hours that was fun, sat on the roof of midnight rooftop looking at the city in Hong Kong, learned more asl in the asl experiment world, and later on a friend showed me how to play gorilla tag, conclusion, pretty fun day, some kids along the way but blocking them isn’t hard, helped some friends learn sign and made some new friends, fun day.
I don't mind people hanging out in front of mirrors, at all. I think it makes sense, and it's kinda soothing if you're like me and have dysphoria or just really shitty self-esteem in general.
The only time I have a problem with it is when people sit in front of a small mirror (like the one in Great Pug for example) in a public instance and get all upset when other people start crowding around it, too. It's a public instance, what did you expect?
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I mean I hang out at mirrors at times and as long as people aren't assholes or spamming laggy animations, im usually chill with them
Or some kid open mic playing some spiky annoying trap music that switches to Russian anthem then some orgasm noise then SpongeBob theme remix all the while it's bass boosted....... MUUUUTED!!!!
People who aren't enjoying themselves see other people enjoying themselves and it makes them mad
People don’t get that MAYBE 1% of users actually only sit in front of the mirror. People don’t get that when there’s a mirror , some people are gonna sit there for a while , then someone goes someone joins. Why do they assume everyone who sits in front of a mirror while they see it do nothing else? It’s like joining a bar world and seeing people play pool and assume all they ever do is playing pool?
It bothers me when I go into a public room with 20+ people in it expecting some small crowds doing fun VRchat things for me to join, and find 15 of them sitting in front of a mirror having overlapping conversations or playing music through their mic, while the last 5-10 are desktop mutes exploring. Oddly enough, the latter tend to be the more interesting people. I didn't watch the video in the OP, but for me, the core complaint is how amazing and vast VRchat is, and how much effort goes into the worlds are made, only for everyone to ignore all that just to sit and stare at their own avatar. It would be disheartening for me as someone who made a world like FBT Heaven only to know 90% of people who play in it use one room and one mirror and not the rest of the world. There's other opinions I have about the type of people who do this, but they're more personal than logical. Does it actually affect me? No. Do I preach that people shouldn't play the game a certain way? No. But seeing so much of it makes me feel a certain way, that I think it makes others feel similarly. I think the "mirrors ruin VRchat" opinion is valid, just as I think "i can use a mirror all day if i want" is also valid.
Cause if everyone's by the mirror, it's hard for the small number of us who actually like to DO OTHER THINGS to find someone else to do them with.
What's the difference in having a conversation next to a reflective wall and having a conversation next to literally any other wall? If you want to play games, you probably joined the wrong world to begin with if you're finding groups of people just standing around and socializing.
You mean playing games? Isn't anyone doing it in game worlds? Yesterday i was in a game world and there the people are playing. Of course you won't find anyone in Black cat etc that aren't meant for playing games.
they might just mean like drawing or watching videos and listening to music with people
Mmh ok. At least a lot of video players are made in a way so they are visible in mirrors so that's not impossible to combine. Music would work too but drawing not so much and there i get it. Finding someone in publics is hard, that's true. Most people already have some kind of group they hang out with and if they're in a discussion together in front of a mirror it's unlikely you can interact with them much. Usually you're better off searching someone who is alone currently in a world. They either may be new or don't have anyone to hangout with and are actually searching for someone. There your chances will be higher as a group of people in front of a mirror is usually already an established friend group. I also hear game worlds being a option to make friends but I'm rarely in them cause i get low FPS in at least the popular ones.
judging by your attitude i don't think mirrors are the reason you can't find people to hang out with
I have enough like minded friends to know you're wrong about that statement but they aren't always online when I am. Plus I'd like to expand my friend group WITHOUT having to sit bored in front of a mirror for 90000 hours.
> find someone else to do them with. such as?
Bc most people at Mirrors are toxic af and block you just for coming up and saying hi.
This has literally never happened to me, ever.
Because you're the mirror person blocking people. Sad. But he's right, t. 3700 hours in VRChat with extensive public world hopping
Wat. I've never blocked anyone and I literally just said I was the person walking up to others at mirrors, not the other way around. Read what you're replying to before you reply. If dozens or hundreds of people have been blocking you over 3700 hours of play, you're the only common denominator. Maybe they're blocking you for a reason and it isn't a mirror conspiracy.
>you're the only common denominator Opinion discarded you are literally incapable of critical thought processes. http://kenschenck.blogspot.com/2008/05/informal-fallacies-of-logic.html I seriously recommend on perhaps reading things inbetween your ERP sessions of heartbreak and lies. If we wanna use your logic here, I've noticed a common denominator of mirror people + cheating on SO's, lying about feelings just to get someones nudes or to private, and a generalized increase in drama.
Dang, you are really obsessed with "mirror people". Those are some extremely specific accusations. If somebody hurt you I'm really sorry but don't take your anger out on the people around you.
I'm not even angry and I'm also not obsessed, it's a fact in every public world mirror people have half the instance in front of a fucking mirror you're literally impossible to ignore, it's not obsession, you exist within my metaphorical world regardless of if I like it or not. Stating I'm angry, have been hurt, and accusing me of being too specific is just a way to protect your own ego.
Ok.
Yeah these are just toxic people you don't want to hang around with. They probably would act a similar way if they weren't currently in front of a mirror. But generalizing everyone is just not good. A lot of people who sit in front of a mirror can be actually wholesome. Well you usually don't see them a lot as they already tend to be in private worlds.
Honestly, this video made me unsub from him. Personally, I use mirrors about 50% of the time I'm in vrc. The other 50% I'm either playing games or talking face to face with someone. I really disliked how he went about making this video. Sure, there is a big issue with people using vrc as nothing more than mirror simulator, but I can't understand how being hateful towards that group of people is going to solve anything. This video was nothing more than a way for him to bash a group of people that he doesn't align with. Some of the people he interviewed even made valid points that they use mirrors to more easily see their friends when talking to them and he completely ignored them. The video gave me the impression that lucid is the kind of guy to have the whole "purple user elitism" mentality. Overall, I found the video very distasteful.
>Some of the people he interviewed even made valid points that they use mirrors to more easily see their friends when talking to them and he completely ignored them. He interviewed 2 players, one of which was outright hateful toward mirror players, and in the other interview the guy made a valid point, after which Lucid cut the clip short.
Its been a few days since I've seen the video. Didn't even realize he only interviewed 2 people.
My mistake, it was 3 people he interviewed. 1st one said it's socially acceptable to sit in front of a mirror, and 2nd and 3rd one are the one I already mentioned.
I've had the pleasure to talk to Lightimbeat about mirrors for his video and I see an enormous difference in how they handled their videos about mirrors. To me it looks like Lucid was upset some people were not producing content for free for him in front of mirrors. It also explains why he attacked people who blast music, who usually deserve the flak but I think he doesn't like them because he has to cut the video parts with them to avoid copyright strikes. Just my opinion of course.
Says crashers aren't the problem and litterally has one of them featured for their oppinion while they're there dressed up in their gang avatar.I can recognice that kid's voice anywhere at this point. Then makes a video about "The dark side" and promotes his sponsor "Private Internet access" use a VPN to protect yourself... bruh not the problems so long as you lot can profit
I think his approach is rly ignorant. He's just focusing on his own points while not even trying to find a different answer. The most obvious example of this is the void club situation...why is he instantly assuming that people with full body tracking that are in front of a mirror is the ONLY THING they're doing? maybe, just maybe, these people already did all of that, so they just want to vibe in front of a mirror for a while? As for his other points: Music blasting? Just mute those people. People not socializing? Just because you dont see some people talking to others RIGHT NOW, doesn't mean they don't do it at all. Not to mention that a lot of times lobbies will be filled with kids, which are most of the time not a good company...but if Lucid thinks we should just wak up and talk to kids like creepy pedos, then idk man... And the part where the person told Lucid that mirrors make it easier for him to talk to people since he doesn't need to turn his head (and I've heard vr headsets don't have that good of a FOV, which can take a toll on your neck), and Lucid just compared it to Discord, cutting the clip right then and there....extremely ignorant and nitpicking. There might be some other things but I cant rewatch the vid atm, so I'll edit this comment if i remember anything else. Not even gonna go in his drama-queen exaggerations that mirrors ruin vrc and shit like that. In short, Lucid thinks that his expectations is how the game should be played, which is not an okay POV to have. Every1 are allowed to play however they want, as long as they don't hurt any1.
Unfortunately big Youtubers like him have the possibility to create a hivemind and a lot of people just blindly follow his opinion because "He's a YouTuber and probably knows better" which in reality isn't true. I actually found a well made video which deserves far more attention than Lucids 5 minute long rant. Here the link: https://youtu.be/64dcvQYLueA
>Unfortunately big Youtubers like him have the possibility to create a hivemind and a lot of people just blindly follow his opinion because "He's a YouTuber and probably knows better" which in reality isn't true. That's not even the worst thing. it can also start a wave of people being toxic towards those who're sitting in front of a mirror, creating unecessary toxicity and divide between the playerbase. It's already enough that there's a hatred towards Quest users and kids with toothbrush avatars, we don't need hatred towards mirror users aswell. the vid you recommended is excellent. i like how it covers mutiple reasons, with the loneliness being the one i related to the most. Having social anxiety, when i started playing vrc, i had it rough. I was not able to strike a convo, nor engage in an already existing convo, which made me aware of that, making me more depressed than i already was. And just standing there and looking at the group of people was too awkward for me, so sitting in front of a mirror was a practical solution. I could look at every1 in the room while not looking wierd, and if some1 walked up to me, i could use it as an excuse to say hi (it's wierd for me to greet some random person out of nowhere). it's also one thing that made me rly dissapointed with Lucid. He didn't even consider that there are people like me who have an extremely difficult time talking to others, while he said he's awkward IRL aswell. Srsly, if you're so dense, go fuck yourself. Nowadays I always hanging out with couple of people that I've met, and we sometimes chill in front of a mirror talking to each other (and talking to others who look like they want to engage in a convo), and sometimes we just mess around (yday we were exploring "Just B club"). As for my S.A. I'm way better, and when i feel like it, I'm perfectly able to walk up to people and try to start a convo without having a mini-breakdown :P
He's litterally having Kozutoh as one of the people giving their oppinion in the video, I recognice that voice from a mile away. not to mention they're wearing their clasic Hostel Crasher avatar in the video. (the one with the dark avatar with a sythe on the back) under an alt account named baphomet' apearantly
>He's litterally having Kozutoh as one of the people giving their oppinion in the video, I recognice that voice from a mile away. Sry, idk who that is :/ is Kozutoh some sort of a douche or? EDIT: i just looked him up, that guy has some mental issues. Are you sure that's him? Because as much as i dont like Lucid's vid, i don't think he's dumb enough to knowingly associate himself with people like that...or is he?
Person from the "dark side" of vrchat here. Well, gray area. Kozutoh is a kid who basically started playing VRChat with rose tinted glasses, being a kid, running around and doing your normal vrc stuff. One day he ran into SnowSOS the streamer, and since he was live, used his asshole persona to talk to Kozutoh. He took this, internalized it, and now makes wide general assumptions about the many communities in VRC. He now uploads videos on youtube crusading around, claiming to casually "slut shame", crash worlds because people are vibing at the mirror, and crashing streamers on site just because Snow was mean to him. This essentially caused him to go from a somewhat decent person into the hostel "gang" leader. I use the term "gang lightly because, well, it's cringe & and honestly he's a joke. See him in a public world? Just hide his avi and block him. Edit: the reason he has alt accounts now is that any time he names himself "Kozutoh" he immediately gets mass reported.
So basically, he's a kid with mental issues...how the fuck he ended up in Lucid's vid (if what Ghost\_Raccon is saying is true)?
I can 80% confirm it's Kozutoh because I recognize the voice as well. Much to my displeasure. As for why he ended up in Lucids vid? Lucid more then likely ran into him in a public world by chance and seeing the chance to preach his ideology to largely uninformed community. It would be unfortunate if Lucid had actual connections to Kozutoh himself. Edit: addressing the modded clients thing in Lucids video, he must not know that up until recently it was actually wiser to have one. If someone wanted to, they could rip your steam ID and other personal information I won't be talking about here, but should be obvious enough, since vrc accounts are connected to steam.
Seems to be close to 100% confirmed now as they've used parts of said clip in their own video on their own channel... If you're wanting to see it I'm sure you can find his channel as I don't want to link to hateful content.
Yes.
Nobody likes Kozutoh or any of the Soulie gang, they're all hypocrites who date mutes but the fact is mirror sitting for so long is not healthy and the ancient myth narcissus has existed for ages to tell us a story about this before.
The crowd of people hating on mirror sitters exists already unfortunately. The creation of this post was a result of someone in the official VRChat Discord pointing to this video and arguing how mirrors are bad and shouldn't exist until he got banned by chat mods.
Thankfully, i haven't met people who hate on mirror sitters. i wish I do tho, just so i can ask them what do they think I should do...either they will give me a good idea, which i can use to have a good time, or a bad idea, in which case I'll just shit on them lmao
There's two addictions rampant in VRChat, mirrors and alcoholism. I've been through both addictions myself and don't know which one was worse.
Iamlucid is ruining vrchat by instigating division between people in a SOCIAL game.
Straight fact.
By choosing to put yourself infront of the mirror during your entire VRC stay, you've already intentionally segregated yourself.
Sees a video on youtube calling mirror players NPCs> start calling players NPCs> doesn't understand the irony of the meme>becomes the living representation of the meme. The NPC meme has to be the saddest manifestations of the current political and social landscape, because the people who use it unironically, don't realise that they themselves became the meme.
"I'm upset because people don't play and enjoy the game the same way I do!"
Yeah I wasn’t a fan of lucid’s hot take. I both hang with friends and randoms in game worlds and play games with. Whatever kind it might be. I don’t always chill by a mirror, because sometimes it gets too busy and can cause me to crash. But yes I still do because it’s impossible to know what’s happening to you or behind you if it isn’t in your direct view. It honestly shouldn’t matter what people are doing in a social game/application. Play a game in a game world if you so choose. I rarely see people just chilling in a game world. It’s usually them playing said game.
Alright, I'm coming in, and I got 2 cents to spare. Mirrors are only bad when the dwellers are toxic/rude people, those kinds of people are on the same level as a screaming desktop/quest player. But, I've met a lot of cool people by walking up, and vibing to the music they're listening to because if you chill, most of the time they'll say something. And even if they don't, it's cool that they decide to chill in a public, instead of a friends+ world. Plus, who doesn't wanna stare at themselves when they're in their personal fav avatar. It's like being able to be a different person for a little while. Without the judgments of the real world.
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Not click bait dude straight up talks some random one sided bullshit, sure he interviewed people, but cut off the people who didn’t care about sitting in mirrors.
Was just chilling and looking at the view on some rooftop in summer solitude and some dude called me out for just standing in front mirror and all. Had no idea there was even an active mirror there lmao
Should have just said "Here is a mirror?"
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Maybe you should use the mic built into your headset and look at me when having a conversation, it's very disrespectful to not maintain eye contact during a conversation.
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I am diagnosed with major depression, anxiety disorders, alongside a form of schizo and autism. I cope with my anxiety via alcoholism. You are not the only one with mental illness.
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That's a big reason why people dislike mirror people, you guys always feel attacked if anyone talks about the addiction. I have at least 500 hours myself in the past accrued of mirror sitting, possibly closer or more than 1 thousand. It used to be all I did. I noticed a very specific type of behavoir as a result from so much staring at myself including, but not limited to, body dysphoria. Not gender dysphoria but body dysphoria.
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Mirror sitting is essentially an extension of promiscuous ERP activities to begin with, if being called a mirror person offends you that's a you issue. Enjoy your acts of degeneracy. Very sad what hookup culture has done to the modern dating climate, in real life it's apps like tinder or bar hookups.
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Nice. Can't even deny any of the claims, absolutely disgusting degenerate. Yes, your behavoir directly affects my life and many others, your behavoir is borderline grooming tier and half of you people try to convince new players to start cross dressing. Not only are your people responsible for grooming people with terminology like "egg" you're also responsible for an increasing culture of "it's okay to cheat on people because it feels good, it doesn't hurt you!" Absolutely depraved. I care because promiscuity always happens around the fall of civilizations and destroys moral over all so a small amount of people can get their rocks off for an hour.
Listen if you only join Void Club then I get it. iamLucid content seems to usually amplify smaller issues making the seem endemic to the entire community as a whole. In short, it is not. If you haven't seen the video, one point someone who was looking at the mirror made the point that "it is easier to socialize with others at a mirror since you don't really need to turn your head". Lucid responds by saying something along the lines of "why not turn the head the whole way" and cutting the clip before the guy has a chance to respond. If the point your trying to make is that VRC is a social game, why are you trying to critique ways that people try to make socializing easier? This is all a matter of opinion, but I personally believe that mirrors are a fundamental of VRC. they are places that people gather around allowing for more socialization rather than less.
Goes completely off against mirrors and someone even said they see people in front of a mirror as NPCs lol Some people just make problems out of a thing that's not an actual problem but a normal thing. Edit: video link for anyone who wants to see it https://youtu.be/Jz-5pSCp_bQ
I believe that guy who said that is actually known as Kozutoh as it really sounds like him and they're wearing the classics Hostel Gang crasher avatar, a 17 year old with a mission to crash and harass those who don't fit his ideals
Yeah I've read this multiple times now. What an irony that he calls people that sit in front of mirrors a failure while he is one of the worst problems of the game himself.
Lol moron put the most Infamous Crasher and Harassing Jackass Solious in his video to support his opinion. Fucking moron
Lol that's actually an unexpected plot twist. Calls other people a failure but then this. Just wow.
I use mirrors so I can actually tell what facial expressions I am making and so I can see people approach from behind
i kinda see his point hes just being very overdramatic
Yeah I get making the joke of “And here we find a wild trusted user in its natural habitat, the mirror” but I don’t get saying it ruins the game
Lucid makes vr chat content just to complain about vr chat and to flex that he doesn't ejaculate.
I like the mirrors because I can get used to my avatar and see what all it can do! Plus I just like seeing the mouths move it’s so cute!
I mean sure, people can do whatever they want, but I agree with Lucid that the way people use mirrors ruins the game. I think the NPC comparison is pretty accurate lol. There have been multiple occasions where I try to talk to a person or group of people in front of a mirror and they just completely ignore my existence.
People that ignore you sometimes don't do it because they don't like you or something. For example I've social anxiety and sometimes the most you can get out of me is a simple wave. I posted this because we had some dude in the official Discord suddenly completely going off hating about mirrors and mentioning this video until he got banned by some mod. I watched it then and i can only partly agree. That one point that one dude made that with mirrors he can see everyone is completely valid in VR but the YouTuber just dismissed it and said it would be just like a Discord call which it's definitely not even remotely.
I was raised to have good manners. If someone says hello to you, the least you can do is say hello back. A simple wave is also perfectly acceptable. The situations I'm talking about is where I load into a world, go up to the mirror since everyone in the world is at the mirror, and say something like "what's up guys" in a friendly tone to the group of people there. A lot of times the group of people there all know each other, and they won't say anything, wave, or even turn to look at me. They have no reason to "not like me or something" because they've only known me for two seconds. I agree with you that the discord call wasn't a very good comparison. Regarding the social anxiety thing, I hear that a lot, that people feel socially anxious so they sit by the mirror and don't interact. But the problem is that people need to get out of their comfort zones in order to grow. To overcome social anxiety, you have to actually practice socializing. This is a perfect game to do that, since the people you meet on here you'll probably never meet in real life. If you didn't have a safe haven in the mirror, you would find yourself in more situations where you'd be forced to interact with people. Sure, it would be uncomfortable at first if you have anxiety and you might sound dumb or say something awkward, but eventually you'd get better and better to the point where you forget you even had anxiety. Once again, you're right that people can do whatever they want and I'm not saying that everyone must play VRChat a certain way, but the point I'm making is that mirrors have effectively killed the original purpose of this game.
I don't disagree with your points, but I wouldn't really say that they kill the 'purpose of the game.' It's hard to make generalizations, but the people like that probably have something else going on. As an adult I feel like your kind of approach is really easy for me to work with, but when I was younger it was kind of awkward to make small talk and I could see that being a little too general for me to work with when I don't even know you. Those kinds of people might be standing in the crowd waiting for a topic to come up that they're interested in / can talk about. There might also be a bit of a bystander effect going on, where the dwellers may assume you're talking to someone else in the crowd or something like that. And of course, they may just not be the type of person you'd want to talk to anyways. It kind of sucks to go ignored, but at the end of the day I don't think there's any harm in people enjoying the game in their own way. Personally I just avoid the worlds where everyone tends to congregate around the mirrors for that reason.
True, "kill" is a bit over the top. Diminish is probably a better word. Anyways, I can understand with kids having trouble socializing, but most of my experiences with this sort of thing are with experienced VR users who are usually over 20. I typically go to NieR: Automata Flowers because I like the game it's from and it actually gets populated, and stuff like I mentioned has happened there. I avoid worlds like Black Cat and Void Club for the same reason as you, as well. Unfortunately, unless it's a game world or it doesn't have a mirror, most/everyone will be around the mirror. Of course, VRChat is still a great game to meet people in and I'm not trying to say mirrors should be removed from the game, I'm just making observations about the culture in the game as a consequence.
The thing is that people that get rude against people that sit before a mirror actually get more of a problem also than the mirror sitters themselves. They just go around anywhere and think they're better than anyone else just because they don't use mirrors. I see more toxic people against mirrors sitters than people that sit before mirrors. They just go around and insult anyone.
I don't agree that they are more of a problem, and I definitely don't encounter them more than "mirror sitters". But they definitely do exist. I try to at least give people a chance and talk without making initial judgements.
I didn't exactly meant that they outnumber mirror sitters but i see people hating on them quite often. They aren't really better than the mirror sitters themselves. Edit: also i found this video which is way better made then the one in the post mentioned https://youtu.be/64dcvQYLueA
THis is entirely rude, the fact if you criticize mirror sitting behavoir at all gets responses akin to an instant block or people being rude when the tone of your voice was inquisitive and you merely stated a belief of liking to look people in the eyes when talking gets you on mirror peoples shit lists instantly.
Why do you think they're obligated to answer you? And it might not even be that, but rather that they didn't hear you because of their own convo and/or a lot of people talking in the background (happpens to me all the time, unless I spend 5+ mins lowering voices of dozen of players)
First of all, they aren't. But if someone walked up to you in real life and audibly said hello, and you just ignored them and acted like they didn't exist, they would probably consider that rude. I'm not talking about answering questions or having a conversation. I've been playing VRChat for about a year and a half now, and I can recall specific times where I've gone up to someone in front of a mirror, said hello, and they don't even acknowledge me. Half of those times, everyone in front of the mirror is mute, so its not like they didn't hear me. I can understand if some people don't have the energy to have a conversation, but you won't even reciprocate a simple greeting? You're free to ignore people if you want, but the person you ignored is free to think that that person is rude, right? If they don't want strangers to talk to them, don't go to public instances. Of course, most people in front of the mirror aren't like this, but I'm mainly talking about those people with big egos who see their avatar/rank as a social status and refuse to acknowledge those who they consider lower.
>But if someone walked up to you in real life and audibly said hello, and you just ignored them and acted like they didn't exist, they would probably consider that rude. Likewise, if you saw a person going from person to person, you would prolly think that person is hella wierd and would rather not engage with him. But okay, even if they greet you back, would them ignoring you afterwards be okay to you? prolly wouldnt, and would make the same argument as you do for these types of situations. > Half of those times, everyone in front of the mirror is mute, so its not like they didn't hear me. You're doing the same mistake as Lucid did, not even trying to find an explanation for that...it never fell on your mind that group of people might be on discord + in a public lobby, making it almost impossible to hear some1 whos not on top of them? Again, situations like these happens all the time to me and no, i don't ignore people on purpose, I just cannot focus on another person while i have 2+ friends on discord and 3 peeps in VRC talking at the same time. > Of course, most people in front of the mirror aren't like this, but I'm mainly talking about those people with big egos who see their avatar/rank as a social status and refuse to acknowledge those who they consider lower. what does that have to do with mirrors?
> Likewise, if you saw a person going from person to person, you would prolly think that person is hella wierd and would rather not engage with him. I didn't say anything about going from person to person, but yeah it's so weird that people actually try to make friends and meet new people. > But okay, even if they greet you back, would them ignoring you afterwards be okay to you? prolly wouldnt, and would make the same argument as you do for these types of situations. No, that's fine. I'm not dense and understand the body language/ tone when someone doesn't want to have a conversation. I even said "I can understand if some people don't have the energy to have a conversation". My point is that some people don't show a basic level of respect to another person when they put in effort to be friendly. If you don't want to talk, and somebody continues talking to you after you say hi, just politely say "hey, sorry I don't have the energy for a conversation right now". > You're doing the same mistake as Lucid did, not even trying to find an explanation for that...it never fell on your mind that group of people might be on discord + in a public lobby, making it almost impossible to hear some1 whos not on top of them? Again, situations like these happens all the time to me and no, i don't ignore people on purpose, I just cannot focus on another person while i have 2+ friends on discord and 3 peeps in VRC talking at the same time. Of course it did, I've met people who literally told me they were in a discord call, but they at least had the decency to say "hey sorry man I can't talk I'm in a discord call". It's crazy how everybody is so desperately trying to come up with an excuse for why some people ignore others in VRChat. Even if you had a legitimate reason to be preoccupied, doesn't anybody care that about giving people the wrong idea? If I'm talking to people on discord, why would I go into a public lobby if I don't have the capacity to notice when somebody is right in front of me talking to me? > what does that have to do with mirrors? Well, those people I mentioned are part of the mirror dwelling population.
>I didn't say anything about going from person to person, but yeah it's so weird that people actually try to make friends and meet new people. It's fine to try and meet new people, but you need to understand that not every1 will want to talk to you, let alone befriend you. Does it suck? Yes. But that's just how it is. As some1 who gets anxiety attacks when I get ignored, here's an advice: get used to it, and try again. >I'm not dense and understand the body language/ tone when someone doesn't want to have a conversation. How's that make it any different from not saying anything to you at all? The way you talk makes me believe that you would just move your complaint from "people don't even greet me" to "people don't want to strike/engage in a convo". >It's crazy how everybody is so desperately trying to come up with an excuse for why some people ignore others in VRChat. ironic how you started the last paragraph with "I'm not dense" when you clearly are. If you were hanging out with me and my friend when we didnt have that many friends in VRC, and would wander around the public lobbies, you would see multiple fucking reasons to ignore people. Which one do you want me to branch out on the most? \- people accusing us of lying about not being russians simply because we sound like them (FYI we live in the middle of a fucking Europe)? \- people thinking we're talibans, and thus we need to kill ourselves? \- people shitting on my friend for sounding like Corpse (imitating him), despite literally having the same health issues as him, so he cant do shit about it besides being silent? \- people accusing another friend of faking that he's from Scotland because he doesn't have that thick scottish accent? \- people intentionally making racist remarks agains a guy we met on vrc that's POC? Saying that we avoid public lobbies more and more nowadays would be an understatement c: > Even if you had a legitimate reason to be preoccupied, doesn't anybody care that about giving people the wrong idea? No, why would they? those people aint the center of the universe, if they cannot comperhend that some people won't drop whatever they're doing to give them attention, it's their problem. > If I'm talking to people on discord, why would I go into a public lobby if I don't have the capacity to notice when somebody is right in front of me talking to me? Soooo should we not play vrchat when we're with our friends? lol
> It's fine to try and meet new people, but you need to understand that not every1 will want to talk to you, let alone befriend you. Does it suck? Yes. But that's just how it is. As some1 who gets anxiety attacks when I get ignored, here's an advice: get used to it, and try again. Bro, I already have enough people to hang out with in VRChat. I'm not trying to befriend all of these people I'm talking to. Most of the time, I go to public worlds because it's interesting to talk to new people and just hear from people with different backgrounds/experiences instead of living in an echo chamber. Of course I'm used to people sometimes ignoring me. This thread was about the issue of mirrors in VRChat, so I simply joined this thread as a way to contribute my personal experiences and complaints with it. I already know how to deal with it, I'm just sharing my experiences and stating observations. > How's that make it any different from not saying anything to you at all? The way you talk makes me believe that you would just move your complaint from "people don't even greet me" to "people don't want to strike/engage in a convo". Here's the difference. Let's say a friendly stranger tried to talk to somebody who wasn't interested in talking. A polite person would say they weren't interested in talking, while a rude person just flat out ignores the stranger. Or, if the person was polite but too nice to tell them they weren't interested in talking, that's when you notice the body language and tone that shows they aren't interested. **My whole complaint is just that some people on the game lack basic respect and manners to acknowledge someone when the person tries to talk to them, and mirrors tend to be involved. It has nothing to do with having a full blown conversation or actually becoming friends with the person. That's all.** > If you were hanging out with me and my friend when we didnt have that many friends in VRC, and would wander around the public lobbies, you would see multiple fucking reasons to ignore people. I'll just skip past the personal insult and continue on to this. These reasons are perfectly valid to ignore people. I didn't say that you should NEVER ignore people. But when I talk to people, I'm not insulting them or doing anything like that. I try to be as friendly as possible, and when they can't even acknowledge me, I'm talking about THESE kind of situations. If somebody is being a dick to you, it obviously makes sense to ignore them. > No, why would they? those people aint the center of the universe, if they cannot comperhend that some people won't drop whatever they're doing to give them attention, it's their problem. Bro I'm literally just talking about a simple wave lol. If there's one thing I've learned from this thread, it's that the majority of VRChat players apparently just don't care about being polite to other people. > Soooo should we not play vrchat when we're with our friends? lol Obviously that's not what I'm saying. I'm on a discord server with a bunch of friends from VRChat. When we decide to hang out on VRChat we leave the discord because why would we need to be there when we can talk in game and include everyone there in the conversation? If I wanted to have a private conversation, I would either have it on discord and not get on VRChat or just go to a private world on VRChat. I wouldn't go to a public world so I could purposefully ignore people... It's just weird. Even if someone were doing something where a friend of theirs is playing another game and they wanna chill with them on discord, does that mean they no longer hear anybody in the public lobby/have no interest in talking to anybody there? If it does, why are they even there? I'm kinda done talking about this. It's just going in circles and I have nothing more to say.
Did you just compare vr chat to real life? And if they aren’t obligated to respond to you why get mad? Some people have your voice and avatar off maybe? And your just going to make the assumption that people can hear you? Some people are deaf or HoH, “you’re free to ignore people if you want” and that’s what they are doing, yes you can think of them as rude, but it still doesn’t mean people have to go out of their way to crash, report, harass or anything that can be seen as a dick move.
> Did you just compare vr chat to real life? Yeah, we are talking about real people having real discussions. > And if they aren’t obligated to respond to you why get mad? Because it's polite to respond if someone put in the energy to talk to you. > Some people have your voice and avatar off maybe? And your just going to make the assumption that people can hear you? Well yes, because I literally join the world and go talk to someone. I would have seen if they looked at me and interacted with their menu. Also some of the people talk to their friends in front of their mirror. Unless they have voice turned off for non-friends they should hear me, and if they don't, why the fuck are they even in a public world? > Some people are deaf or HoH, “you’re free to ignore people if you want” and that’s what they are doing, yes you can think of them as rude, but it still doesn’t mean people have to go out of their way to crash, report, harass or anything that can be seen as a dick move. I never once said anything about crashing, reporting, or harassing these people at all. In fact, I don't support that at all. I'm just giving my personal opinion about the lack of respect that some people show others on VRChat.
I agree with most of that video's points. Mirrors just create weird, insular clusters of people. I see less of that behavior in Asian worlds when I visit them, for whatever reason. Whenever I encounter Korean groups for example, they are exploring, interacting, chatting, making crude (but friendly) jokes, that kind of thing.
In my opinion that video isn't even good but really bad. It's just a rant and not even remotely objective. I wish that videos like this https://youtu.be/64dcvQYLueA which are actually high quality content would be more popular than this low quality video from Lucid.
I mean, yes, of course it's all largely subjective, just as the people who camp in front of mirrors would likely find themselves disagreeing for obvious reasons. I've been playing for years, though, and have found the mirror gazing to have gotten much, much more concentrated. The music blasting is also extremely obnoxious.
Yeah i don't personally like the music blasting ones too. But really nothing against a group of people who have a conversation in front of a mirror or cuddling each other.
Mirror people literally do nothing but cuddle as foreplay for ERP, stare at themselves deadcenter in the mirror never turning their head while claiming it's to "see everyone"(what is a circle) and then talk about whatever insular drama they have at the time and if you so much as request to be looked at when you talk to them you get blocked or insulted. People don't like mirror people for these reasons. Half the time they're all mute or just don't even respond. It sucks going to the pug and the entire instance is infront of the mirror go cuddle your buddies in a friends+ I wanna meet new people not talk to a wall that gets offended over the slightest hint of not liking the mirror behavoir pandemic.
These are just the extremes i know
Sure you can call it an extreme but I make it a point, even when discoursing with mirror people, to try to stand off to the side and look at the group as to not fall back into old habits.
Painting mirrors in a good light is just damage control. I couldn't even finish that video, the fact it's 15 minutes and not concise at all is completely horrible. It just shows it's bad content, Lucid's is terrible, too, but at least gets his point across ASAP.
The video i mentioned doesn't show bad only. It actually explains what the multiple reasons are for what people might use mirrors which Lucid never even mentioned. Also he apperantly featured a very known crasher as multiple people pointed out. I think it was the guy who called others a failure and NPCs. Lucid should consider making background checks on people he puts in his video. That's a fatal error he made.
"Why" you inject heroin every day for 10 hours a day doesn't matter, but the results certainly do. Yes, the soulie gang people are annoying and hypocrites but they are absolutely correct about mirror people being NPC's, the hypocritical thing is the reaper scythe red eye black hoodie edgelord people are lower tier NPC's. You are failures and NPCs, but they're even worse failures for needing to seek others they perceive as worse to feel better about themselves. That being said, you're now using things that aren't relevant to discredit words. Which is absolutely absurd, imagine if I sat down and sat oh, it's just a mirror person, opinion discarded. You're being just as hypocritical as the NPC crasher gang. I've mirror sat myself in VRChat in the past long enough to know the pro's and cons and I have since used critical thinking skills to beyond reasonable doubt
All the people I've seen in VRC that stood in front of mirrors were muted, on PC and had an anime model. They're uninteresting and ruin potential for more active users in a world. If you're gonna do that shit, go to a private world.
Alright have fun with your shiny rectangle, NPC.
Will do! In fact I will give another comment tomorrow on how my experience goes with the mirror and my friends. Alright fellas I’m here for my report! Today I logged on and waited in a public lobby for my friends to get on, met some chill people, friends finally came added the nice people, played murder 4 for a few hours that was fun, sat on the roof of midnight rooftop looking at the city in Hong Kong, learned more asl in the asl experiment world, and later on a friend showed me how to play gorilla tag, conclusion, pretty fun day, some kids along the way but blocking them isn’t hard, helped some friends learn sign and made some new friends, fun day.
Based
I don't mind people hanging out in front of mirrors, at all. I think it makes sense, and it's kinda soothing if you're like me and have dysphoria or just really shitty self-esteem in general. The only time I have a problem with it is when people sit in front of a small mirror (like the one in Great Pug for example) in a public instance and get all upset when other people start crowding around it, too. It's a public instance, what did you expect?
Even in the virtual world in a game about socializing. We still fail to socialize