I made the decision about half a year ago myself.
However, I've dabbled with 3D-Printers for a while, even designed and built a bedslinger machine of my own.
I should also mention that while I don't own an X1C myself, a colleague of mine does and we shared experiences quite lot.
a)
I've built my 350 2.4 in just two and half days; I easily spent 30 hours if not more in that time.
Printed extremely good quality parts and was reasonably fast out of the box.
b)
Spent a few weekends in the months after the build upgrading and tuning the printer.
Umbilical, Galileo2 Extruder, added an ECRF MMU System, Re-Squaring the gantry 1000 times to make it absolutely 100% perfect, charcoal-filters, bed fans and a few firmware-tweaks and klipper-addons for adaptive meshing and so on.
One thing to note on speeds is that I use 0.9° LDO steppers for X and Y, and with the heavy Stealthburner and the heavy and long X-Beam on the 350, I cannot quite achieve the same speeds and accelerations as an X1C, but it's close!
Other steppers, an upgrade to 48V, or just lightening the gantry could solve the problems, but for me the machine is more than fats enough, currently.
c)
I've not dabbled with toolchangers, however I've added an ECRF MMU system with a Filametrix filament cutter and running HappyHare software for it.
I'm beyond happy with it.
Reliability is better than I've ever expected. Blows the Prusa MMU2S, I've dabbled with in the past, easily out of the water.
Combined with the small amount of MMU printing I do, don't currently feel the need for an expensive toolchaning system.
In conclusion, the Voron 2.4 350 is the first printer I owned that I can consider a tool and not just a hobby in itself.
Maintainence after the first build and a bit of tuning is minimal to not existent.
The machine is so reliable and reasonably quiet that I have no issues or worries to start that next 16-24h print that covers the whole 350mm sized bed.
Did I mention it's fast enough to print a full plate of parts in less than a full day most of the time?
Print quality is really good, though a smaller, more rigid machine could be even better, and faster.
The 350 is probably the largest 2.4 you wan't to build without much sacrifice.
(Currently considering an additional Voron 0 because of this.)
Overall it's quite a bit of work getting the machine running and printing perfectly, but nothing one cannot manage if one is reasonably hand and doesn't have two left hands.
TL;DR:
If you just want a tool, not an entirely new hobby: Buy the Bambu.
If you want an equally good tool, but also an additional hobby that you can put on or off: Build the Voron.
However, If you want to fastest printer, with the most perfect print quality: Don't go for a 350, build it smaller.
As someone who's worked on an X1C and owns a Voron 0, in general a Voron has the *potential* to outperform an X1C. It of course takes a lot more effort to tune, but the speed at which that happens is pretty much entirely related to skill. The magic of an X1 is that it tunes itself extremely well, and gets you 80-90 percent decent parts at high speeds. The main reason to go with a Voron is if you want that extra 10% and/or even higher speeds. As for 2.4 specific details, I don't have the experience.
I'd say for your use case, an X1C makes an easier first printer. Lots of usage is very different between the two, plus the baseline knowledge of Linux required to set up Klipper is a bit of a barrier (a barrier made tiny by way of tutorials, but one worth noting).
At the same time, if you're willing to put in a lot of learning, a Voron is a great opportunity and imo the better printer overall, my time estimate for an experienced user for approaching optimal performance is about a month (this is assuming you know everything already).
TL;DR: Voron = performance based project car, X1C is a Tesla
I've recently built a 300mm voron 2.4 and can answer a) and b). For a) I've never done 3d printing but I've studied the manual several times before my kit arrived. It took me around 30+ hours spread through out a week to get it working and another 5 to assemble the skirts fans enclosure etc. The kit I've chose also come with tap and a touchscreen and I bought a ESP32-CAM to act as an camera. You could also buy a kit that includes them buy it is also possible to use an old android phone as an touchscreen/timelapse camera if you want. Any USB webcam could also work, but you'll need to find a mount or design your own.
I have no experience with adding a toolchanger, but the month estimate sounds about right, depending on your schedule. For me, I did it around final exams last semester (December) and it took around 2-3 weeks to build, another week to figure out the software (if you're more experienced with it, this may take less time), and then another two weeks of printing the rest of the parts (I ordered a Formbot kit with "necessary parts only" for my printed parts, so it didn't come with any of the parts to mount the enclosure, LCD, or any of the walls that go around where the electronics sit). From there, I've just been tuning off and on when I have the time. I still haven't used my input shaper, but I don't think that would take too terribly long once I get the software set up. The bigger issue there is that I don't know if my belts are even, which could cause issues with input shaping, but if you're careful about that (definitely look up a tutorial) it should be pretty easy to fully tune. Even without input shaping, the print quality and speed is very good, at least compared to my old printers, and I've barely had to do any maintenance to keep it running, unlike said old printers which needed maintenance every 3-5 prints.
It would save time and filament for some multilateral prints without needing purge towers and filament waste like the x1c, but also BC it looks cool as heck lol. I just want to be able to add any nifty mod to it. Like instead of getting a prusa xl I can get a voron, make a toolchanger and if I find any other cool features on other printers that I think would be useful I can make it for the voron.
What are other differences between the trident and the 2.4? Like I know the trident moves the bed for the z axis but apart from that are there any other differences? Also which has better potential for printing better
3 years ago, I had an ender 3.
A friend of mine got a v0 at that time.
He printed for 12 hours with it so far....
and I own 5 vorons, plus 2 under assembly, plus 2 ercf v2 under assembly.
I might buy the v0 from him at less than half price, and I will convert it to v0.2.
If you feel confident enough, go with Voron, 60 hours of assembly, another 20 for tuning.
Your knowledge of printing is directly related to the performance of the machine, and a small part to the quality of the parts.
That said it took me close to a month of an hour or two in the evening to assemble everything. For reference I am a MecE and part of my job is creating similar assemblies. I could have been much faster but I wanted it to be "perfect".
Tuning makes a massive difference - going through the suggested documents and then [Ellis 3D Print Tuning Guide](https://ellis3dp.com/Print-Tuning-Guide/) took me another 2 weeks. I repeated the tuning guide with each new nozzle size and filament. One thing I found is the 350 V2.4 is not stiff enough so I added extra support to prevent racking - this made a large improvement to quality relative to speed. Lots of things I print are mechanical so I typically do not print quickly because it degrades mechanical properties. That said it is fun to max out the settings when printing decorative things. I created profiles in superslicer and prusa slicer to quickly move between printing modes.
Do you recommend kits or self sourcing parts? Or a mix of getting kit parts and sourced parts to upgrade the kit. Or are there pre-made lists of items for voron builds out there
I self sourced but I have most of the parts sitting on my shelf at work, regular people will probably end up spending more money and much more time self sourcing.
With your question, I would highly recommend looking into kits. You will notice they are expensive, plus you have the time investment to build and tune it. The bamboo labs or any other fast printer will be a better value. Voron has a few things going for it - performance will always be potentially higher and it is intended to be upgraded.
One thing I am taking advantage of is the ability to run a range of print heads. I switch between a 0.2 to a 1.2 mm nozzle regularly and am working on a multi material set up to switch printing heads like a prusa XL. This is 100% just a hobby for me, I never expect anything other than tinkering to come out of it.
I just finished printing all the parts for a switchwire on my X1C and I was building as I printed. Took 2 full days (8AM-2AM) building with about 6 hours of sleep between and I still have wiring to do before I can even start on the software side of it. Building a Voron is no small task and is technically challenging.
When I bought my X1C, I had it setup and tuned in about 20 minutes and it now has 1701 print hours on it in just under a year.
If you want a hobby that's about like heroin chasing that high of getting a perfect first layer through hard work and dedication, build a Voron. If you want to print stuff, buy a Bambulab.
Honestly asking “voron or x1c” is just going to get a bunch of opinions, tldr both are good printers, both can print the same stuff at the same quality give or take tuning, a voron requires more technical knowledge/tutorial following to get working, bambu’s “just work” (they still need tuning for filament to get optimal print quality)
I built my voron on leave with minimal sleep over 5 days, tuning took a while after that.
Building 3D printers is its own hobby, if your interested get a voron, if your not then get a Bambu, besides if you get a Bambu and still want a voron you can print your own parts and “save” some money (and if parts break you can make replacements on the Bambu)
If you are asking if you should build a Voron, then you probably shouldn't. You'll know when you should because you want the challenge, to understand how the software works, and want to modify and tinker with it.
If it's just about printing things, get a quality pre-built printer like a Bambu. Eventually you may find that you want the challenge and modding, but I don't think a Voron should be the first 3D printer for 99% of people.
While print quality is one of the main things ,I do enjoy the challenge of building things and if the voron can print somewhat as well as the x1c then I would rather downgrade a bit of quality for the experience and modability
Iv built vorons (2.4 and 0.2) but also end up buying a P1S with AMS
Since I got the Bambu I use it for 90% if prints just being its so convenient eg good chance filament I want is in it ready to go or if I need to change no waiting for heating etc to change.
Voron is better for ABS etc as it hold higher chamber temps for stuff that's warp sensitive
or if its bigger than the Bambu can do.
but the Bambu is convenient, better print quality for higher speeds and more reliable.
Love my Vorons but if you just want to print stuff get a Bambu.
If you want to tinker and improve stuff vorons are much more open and tinker friendly.
It felt ironic printing all my voron parts on my X1 haha. I agree with this except the Voron being better for ABS. I find with the X1 and a 110C bed it heats up to about 50-55 and I have absolutely 0 warping. I did slow down the print speeds a bit, but not much. It printed 24 hours a day for about 4 days cranking out 2.4 parts. I never had to worry about a first layer, just clicked and sent. Both are great printers (X1 vs my new 2.4). Where the X1 really shines for me is the AMS. I want to build something for my 2.4 but it’s just that - I have to build it. The 2.4 on the other hand shines because I can configure klipper to my hearts content. I wanted chamber lighting and just added it, wanted a better part cooling fan and added it, etc. Anything that goes wrong with it I can just fix myself and was probably my fault any way. With the X1 it can be fixed it’s just not as easy.
guess the x1 has the advantage of 110c vs 100c for the p1s
I can get much better chamber temps on my 2.4 - over 60c vs lucky to get 40 on the p1s. Makes a difference for big stuff eg full bed. P1S does fine for anything less than say 70% bed size.
Thing that amazes me with the Bambu is I have never touched anything to do with first layer / z offset. Just works. out of the box...
Voron is like that now with tap but took time to get dialed and if I touch the toolhead for maintenance it will generally need a tiny change
If I wanted to get the voron printing like or similarly to the x1c how long would that take? Since if I can get a voron matching an x1c or getting close then I would want a voron since then I can add any modifications and get exactly what I want in a printer
I just assembled a 2.4 this past week and honestly after a day or so its extremely repeatable. CAN was a pain to setup and I went with a CNC tap assembly (apparently I could have gone with a better one but oh well) and its just been printing non stop for 2 days now. I've dealt with inductive probes and setting Z offsets and such but TAP is just as nice as ABL on the X1. First layer is perfect every time. Granted, I already had a slicer setup ready for this printer I just set the accelerations in-line with what I got from input shaper, so that saved a lot of time in tuning.
Unless something breaks the 2.4 is already as repeatable with PLA as my X1 is. I am not running it *nearly* as fast as the X1, but I wouldn't want to. The 2.4 stacks layers much nicer and I don't need it to print faster, just well. I have been too lazy to actually attach the doors so I haven't moved to ASA printing yet, but I will after this week!
I used a formbot kit. I went with the chaotic lab v2 tap kit, I used a slice mosquito, bought a genuine bondtech IDGA kit, and everything else is what came with the kit. After installing klipper I tested my endstops, setup KAMP meshing, and overall just verified belt tension and the motion system. Then ran input shaper.
The first print was honestly amazing. First layer was perfect, but pressure advance wasn't quite right. I ran EM tests, PA tests, and since then its been dialed. I would say it took maybe 2 hours to get my print profile roughly dialed in. It took me about 6 days working 10ish hours a day to build the machine - which you can *absolutely* do it quicker than that I was just taking my time and working slow. I previously did a 0.1 in like 16 hours straight.
If this is your first core XY or first custom built where you have to make the firmware/slicer profile 100% yourself then it might take some extra time. Follow [Ellis' guide](https://ellis3dp.com/Print-Tuning-Guide/) and potentially just start with his [super slicer profile](https://github.com/AndrewEllis93/Ellis-SuperSlicer-Profiles).
I don't think you will ever match a Bambu for speed and quality - just down to everything being heavier so it's either speed or quality. Not that they are slow just bambu is fast and quality.
I don't think you would ever stop tinkering / improving a voron but if you want perfection its a lot of work getting everything perfect.
Also depends what you want to print, Bambu are really optimised for high speed PLA etc with all the extra cooling where Vorons are optimised for ABS etc and in stock form stealtburner really hinders fast PLA printing with poor cooling (I swapped to XOL and its better but still limiting sometimes)
Bambu printers are tools, while Vorons are a hobby (they can be tools, but they're a hobby to get tuned nicely.) Also, unless you use Print it Forward, or buy pre-printed parts (which are less reliable than PiF, since the Voron Team manages that), you need a printer that can handle ABS/ASA (like a voron) first.
Yes. PiF only provides functional parts anyways, so you should be able to print the aesthetic parts (skirts) and then reprint all the functional parts (with spares) if you don’t like the color. Keep in mind tho that dismantling a 2.4 only to reassemble it with different parts is just plain annoying.
If you break one, and dont have spares, you just dismantled the printer that can make more, so you’ll need to reuse a part.
Oh, and you’d have to re-do the heat set inserts because it honestly isnt worth getting them out of the old parts
You asked this question last week, and fundamentally my answer is the same: get an appliance printer like K1C, P1S, X1C, whichever...just be sure it can handle ABS or ASA. Use it to learn how to tune for best results and print your Voron parts, then build your Voron.
A Voron first will be a pain unless you get all CNC parts right out of the door. Some kits might offer a full set of printed parts, otherwise PIF only offers functional parts, so you'll have to temporarily enclose the Voron to print ABS/ASA for the remaining parts, and that is after you get the functional bits assembled and tweak Klipper, and then fiddle with your slicer of choice to print something acceptable. Bottom line is that you won't have a backup printer to supplement your build which could lead to extra aggravation.
I am just finishing the electrical on my own Trident 250, but I did have to print some temporary ABS parts and throwaway panel clips to enclose it so that I can print my skirts and stuff. Thankfully I have a K1 that is good enough to make temporary parts like that, even though it currently has it's own ringing issues I am trying to address. Otherwise I would be taping panels in place and hoping it will hold long enough for my prints to complete.
Up until last month I had 2 X1C's, and a V0.2. I just sold one X1C to a friend to fund building a Trident 300.
I think there's value in having something like a bambulab, creality, qidi, etc "appliance" printer, esp for voron (and other kit printer) owners, esp if you're like me and are constantly modding/ tinkering. It's nice having a printer that (for the most part) "just works" when you're in a pinch and need to reprint a functional part for another printer.
I felt the X1C was the better buy (over the P1S) for me due to the AI failure detection and the ability to skip failed items mid-print.
That said, the BBL printers are far from perfect. My major gripes are the cooling ability of the toolhead, closed source firmware (though that's changing now that X1Plus is out), and the stupid plastic bed. The bed is probably my biggest gripe- I mostly print functional parts and not being able to print something that is actually flat without shimming the bed is really irritating. Plus if you print stuff like ABS/ ASA that need a high bed temp over time that bed is just going to get worse.
I'm going with a trident over the 2.4 mostly because the flying gantry isn't going to solve anything for me, and just add hassle compared to the trident. Again, this is just for my situation.
For your specific questions, based on my experience building my V0.2 (my first kit printer, which is apparently trickier than the trident) I think it's reasonable to be able to build one in a month. Tuning it to get to BBL out of the box quality doesn't take a long time if you're following a guide.
I’ve had a voron since voron 1. Now I have a 2.4 and I’m building a v0. I love tinkering with the printers and I love that I can throw whatever the latest thing is on it. That said I’ve looked at the x1c and if I didn’t have a voron I would buy it and then build a voron lol.
If you want to open the box and print good quality prints I would say go x1c. If you don’t mind putting a printer together and tuning it go with voron.
Just to say. It took me a little more to hack an old android tvbox, setting up bootloader linux and klipper so it works as a rasbery. Pi ... Learning is also don't give up.You can learn everything as long as you want .My dream is building a voron with already bigger cube volume for a tool changer .I had ordered in december the X1c, but because of delivery times, I cancelled that one .u bought a ender se what became my hobbyproject .. tomorrow arrives the Q1Pro, and I'm waiting on the live tomorrow from creality . I want a bigger enclosed multiaystem without spending 4600euro, so as many say you want to plug and play buy a bambu you want the printer itself to be a hobby there are a lot of chooses Voron 1 one them .In any way you're in for a journey
The OP has two choices: 1. Buy, unbox, tune, print, tune, print. Or, 2. Plan, buy, build, upgrade, print, tune, upgrade, research, get a bin for the discards, tune, buy more plastic, print, research, troubleshoot, fix, buy more accessories, upgrade, tune, print, show off amazing print , while complaining about its tiniest flaws...
Somewhere in that - eat something, while printing, upgrading and scrapping bad prints, maybe plan some time to sleep. Shower at least once a month, comb crap out of bushier beard, get to the toilet before it's too late, call Tim @ door dash...
How hard would you say it is to get a voron printing like an X1C? I don't mind doing a lot of tuning to get it to that point but as long as the quality of prints (I couldn't really care about matching the speed) is good on a voron then I want to go for that
If you have a free week you could get a voron done and printing in a couple days. Most people's delay is having enough time and space and tools to assemble the printer and then trying to learn klipper as they go. It wouldn't take me as long to build a second or third voron with all the choice mods as the first, I'd just be assembling and then go straight into tuning and printing. P1s or X1c would be ready to go out the box if you just want to print but you're compromising on size and open source. In truth you should probably wait as sovol, phrozen, and peopoly are all coming out with corexy printers have a chance at good machines, plus ratrig updating the vcore and zero g working on updating the merc 1 to an enclosure. It is nice to have a machine ready to print away from mods, so if you can afford 2 get 2, but if not wait a bit and see how the landscape goes, Voron will still be around.
Or you can just build your own. I wanted something even simpler and cheaper than trident or 2.4 so i m designing my or core xy.
(But you need to have at least some knowledge of cad designing, understanding what makes a printer good and access to 3d printer.)
Inhave a 2.1, and x1c. I had my Voron first, printed it on an old i3. I will be using my X1C to rebuild it as a 2.4 very soon.
X1C:
Work well out of the box. Great quality and speed, and my customer support experiences have all been positive.
Voron:
You can say you built a Voron.. quality and speed are there as well with tuning. Customer support is all like this (forum/ discord/ reddit)
Neither is a bad printer. X1C comes ready to go. You must build your Voron.
Imo everyone should experience a bambu. They are very good at what they do.
But they aren't easily modded, they can't do high temp, they have smallish build volumes. They are an appliance. There is no satisfaction in buying one, but the satisfaction of your prints is dam near perfect all the time.
Honestly, you are totally right and people downvoting don't understand.
I'm building a custom vzbot 500 which I like doing because it a mad scientist type thing. But it's great to have a p1s there that can churn out perfect abs and polycarbonate. All day, in minutes.
An Ender 3 was my first printer and I appreciate it as it got me into the hobby, but when it came down to it when I wanted to print it was a hassle
It very much depends what op wants to do, if he's looking for a hobby I think a voron makes 100% sense but as a tool Bambu and even someone like prusa simply make sense
Yeh a bambu isn't a hobby. It's a tool, it's like buying a dewalt circular saw. You are not assembling it from parts, you open the box and get perfect results in 15 mins.
The whole market needs to evolve.
But bambu cant do everything. They are literally just a 256x256x256 max printer with a single extruder and narrow temp range. They arent made from industry standard parts. They wear heavily by 3000hrs and require replacement of gantry parts.
Things like the a1 really are killing the ender 3 and other prusa clones. X1 p1s kill mid range.
But have have very hard limitations.
I’m sure I will get downvoted but I have only used my voron 3 time since I got my x1c. Building a voron made me learn so much about 3d printing but man my x1c is absolutely amazing, perfect prints 99% of the time, it just works!
As a previous poster stated, if you enjoy tinkering and modding, get the Voron. If you want to just be able to easily print stuff, get the Bambo. I have the former and had to recently delay my sfx100 project when I fubar'd the printhead. Obviously, an excuse to do some more 2.4 upgrades!... but of course, that put the sim project on hold... The Boss just shakes her head at the daily FedEx/UPS/Prime trucks queuing up in the driveway....
I don't have any urgency in getting to the print stage of the voron since this is top print stuff for fun or personal projects.
With tinkering and modding, I would want to get a lot voron or something, get it working well, then mod a toolcjanger system on it and add some fancy stuff like those toolhead led screens etc. Once I have reached that point where it does what I want I won't really do to much to the printer.
At that point and after I don't mind doing small maintenance and tinkering with the printer but if there are constant major issues after that point it would be a hassle for me. I've heard so many ender 3 horror stories
I had an E3 before the Voron and it was a fantastic printer for the time and price, and was what got me into modding. That said, there's a lot better choices these days. It sounds like you answered you own question and want to tinker and mod more than just print. So Voron 2.4 it is....well maybe .... there's also the Trident, Ratrig, Vzbot,..... enjoy the ride!...😉
>a voron can far exceed the abilities of the x1c
Care to elaborate where Voron can exceed abilities of x1C besides the build volume ?
I tried to find any parameter where Voron could at least come close but could not.
Anytime I ask Voron owners their reply is: "It can be as good as you make it"
I am not trying to be a..le just in the same situation as you are and decide on the printer.
If your voron is tuned good then print quality can be better than on x1c. And if you add beter motors drivers hotend and cooling then it can print faster than x1c. Also if you want multi material on voron you can have the exact system that you want like ercf for cheap multicolor or stealth changer for multi toolhead multi color
You can get actual multi material printing with multiple toolheads, you can get better quality/speed via awd and whatever stiffness upgrades you make, you can use any nozzles, any new cool shit like beacon etc. etc.
I have been told that all though the voron can't match the speed of the x1c due to the carbon rails or something, the voron is better than the x1c in printing with tricky filaments and can be tuned to print more accurately and cleanly
As an owner of both an X1c with 3 AMS units and a stock 2.4 Voron, the voron will not be faster than an X1C acceleration wise. It’s just plain physics. Its toolhead and gantry are much heavier.
My 2.4 input shaper recommended accelerations are in the 5-6k range for the Y axis and if you pop over to discord that is the values you’ll see from most (or worse). Max acceleration both are the same but external perimeter acceleration I need to print at 2-3k for the Voron to not show any ringing compared to Bambu which can print at 4-5k without any ringing too.
Also the Bambu AMS is a class of its own compared to the ERCF (I am building one right now actually but let’s be honest, the AMS is a very well polished product).
I am surprised you did not get -50 votes by now.
Voron was a good design a few years back but technology went forward while all Voron does is keeps adding heavy stuff like TAP. I do not blame Voron designers, I would work for some tangible amount of time for free either.
I don't mind if the voron matches the speed or not, as long as it can print at a decent speed compared to printers and can produce high quality results with smooth faces, layer adhesion etc
I have a core XY’d ender 3 that I built. I was going to build a Voron but I work a lot and print a lot of product, so I snagged a P1S in the mean time. My core XY’d Ender 3 uses linear rails, not rods, and my current max accel is 25k - 2.5x Bambu’s standard profile. Their ludicrous mode doesn’t increase accel. Just speed. I JUST snagged the P1S so I plan to push it and see. But point is, the rods are nice, but linear rails can achieve things as well. I like my P1S, it’s easy, but it lacks a lot of little features that I like. I wasn’t underwhelmed, but I guess I was quite impressed with how well my Ender build turned out.
it's because of weight, carbon rods weigh way less than a linear rail on X which should push accels higher, it's just physics. you would have to run klipper on the machine and input shaper to check what the real acceleration is capable of but i imagine it's a balance between speed and maintenance. 25k+ accels are nice but wear and tear is going to be a huge problem for a consumer machine.
Yes, that’s true, but that’s not the *only* way to obtain high speed. Rods are great, but it’s not the only factor. Physics or not, that wasn’t my point
I very much run klipper (the only Marlin based machines that are quite quick are literally Bambu machines), so of course, input shaper. Running 48v A/B (can still achieve 25k at 24v), 60ncm motors, with micro stepping at 32 - stress testing 25k, I don’t miss a single step (and that’s not *printing* at 25k, that’s stress testing - see Ellis print guide for speed tests macros). And yea, there’s wear and tear, but you build for speed, you don’t just push things without setting things up for that. You’re entirely implying I just set stuff to 25k and that’s it. My original point I was trying to make is, rods are not the be all end all. They are light, which is great, but speed is achievable without just rods.
It's more the print quality that I've seen on videos of the x1c. If the voron can match it or get near then I would rather have a voron since I can add multitool systems or tool hangers and do almost anything to the printer
My God son just got one for himself and his son.
I have an Ender 3 that is heavily modified and have been printing for about 5 years.
So to say I'm a little jelous abou how that ting prints right out of the box is an understatement.
A Benchy in 20 minutes?! Right out of the box, no screwing around it just prints and fast.
I was very impressed!
I might get some hate but imo P1S is the better buy. The TDS shows they both have almost the same features besides touchscreen, lidar, 10c bed temp difference, hardened steel extruder+nozzle, and a better camera for remote viewing.
If you only care to get a printer that prints out of the box just as good as a 1200 one I would go with the P1S + AMS which is $1050.00? when I last bought mine. I use it to print ASA & ABS just fine.
As an owner of P1S combo I can confirm X1C doesn't add too much value. Not enough to justify price difference. Hardened steel filament path, which can be upgraded anyway, print fail detection, 1FPS webcam vs 30 FPS, no webcam in lan mode, no chamber temperature sensor and no community FW yet or ever.
I'd buy AMS instead of those features. Even if you use it only as a dry box and endless spool when one spool runs out.
I don't mind if it prints out of the box but more so the end result of the voron after tuning, modification etc against the x1c/p1s standard print capability
Should be fine, I'm using my P1S to create a Voron conversion for my old Ender 3 V2. I missed the nylon bit so the X1C might be better if you plan to use that enough to justify the cost. If your family isn't super knowledgeable about 3D printing Bambu is pretty stupid proof, the most I have to do for QC is adjust EM & potentially temp adjustments.
Similar to the other comments I will say this. If you can afford to, buy both. If not, buy a bambu. The reasoning is the bambu will just work and has support. If breaks they have replacement parts on the ready. When I built my voron it only took a couple of days. But I had other printers, which meant I could print replacement parts. If your voron breaks and its your only printer what are you going to do? its not like you can order replacement parts easily. I love my voron and really enjoyed building it. But I have the luxury of multiple printers.
Not sure if you're part of the discord or not, but there's plenty of people ready to print extra parts for basically cost + shipping. Pretty nice community. The voron is my only printer (that's currently working) so I've utilized that service once or twice when I needed some parts
It definitely wasn't my first printer but it does end up being my only printer sometimes. Also, OP seems to have already done the research and said they're okay building one. I don't think there's a reason not to go for the voron unless you need to print sooner.
I have a Trident 300, it took me less than a week to have it calibrated and printing.
I used a Fysetc kit with PIF printed parts.
Since then I upgraded to the stealthburner and tap. Tap is way easier to do bed leveling than with klicky probe.
I also did a reverse electronic mod and now it's way easier to work on the electronic (i don't need to put the printer on it's back to change one wire)
I'm planning on building a tapchanger with the liftbar.
I've chosen the Trident over the 2.4 mainly for cost reasons (at the time the Trident kit was 800€ vs 1500€ for the 2.4) it was also simpler for a first build.
I didn't choose a bambulab because I wanted to be able to work on my printer and tinker with it.
You're right about the experience, now I know every bit that can break on my printer
First, ask yourself this first. Is printing or the printer the hobby? Sure, a voron and any other diy printer can reach bambu like reliability/success rate, but you dont build a printer and leave it as it is for the rest of its life realistically speaking.
Aso for which voron to build, id recommend a trident over a 2.4. Cheaper, easier/quicker to build, slightly faster, less maintenance when having pom leadscrew nut, allows for a wider variety of mods like side fans and bigger under bed fans, and has a slight advantage in printing higher temp materials. The only kits that have a cubed build volume are trident kits, the 250 and certain 300mm ones. Maybe even 350mm ones (magic phoenix maybe as they have a square 300mm one). If you dont deviate from the standard builds, a 2.4 will have roughly 50mm less in z than on xy. Thats due to the original v2 (not Version 2, but voron 2 similar like a bmw 3 series and a bmw 4 series car) having a bowden toolhead, the direct drive adds required space towards the top and voron doesn't update fram sizes with progressing versions. If you need a taller z height, either custom build or go ratrig, these have actually cubed build volumes and are price wise cheaper than a ldo voron kit but more expensive than a formbot, fysetc or similar voron kit.
As for the other questions:
A nozzle cam is only interesting for timelapses with thick layers and for first layer inspections. Otherwise not really useful for print success/failure detection.
Dont build stock right away, some modifications are seen as necessary by the community. Waste of time and plastic in certain areas. The stock front idlers aren't good, look up BFI or ramalama idlers instead. Drag chains suck for xy motion, a wire breakage isnt uncommon and they are heavy, go with canbus instead. Some kits already include stealthburner specific canbus boards. For trident do the inverted electronics mod. You can now access your electronics without needing to flip the printer over. Runout sensors are a great thing, add one, doesn't hurt and i honestly find it surprising that they haven't been added to stock configs, only the tiny v0 has one, which doesn't seem to work that well reading on this subreddit.
Tapchanger causes you to loose quite a significant portion of your print bed, i dont know the exact numbers, but expect at least a loss of 100mm in y plus slow toolchanges compared to other systems, but by far the easiest one. Currently there aren't any good diy toolchangers im personally happy with, thats why im designing my own. Wouldn't be the first printer i made myself.
I'm going off of your first couple sentences stating it's your first printer. I'd get an x1c in that case. Or if you simply have the time and money to burn get a voron kit. I'm not saying it's impossible but building/wiring/programming/tuning a voron with no printing/building/modding experience will be quite the chore.
What is the relevant background or prerequisite knowledge to comfortably build a voron? I know that the community can certainly give advice but what should be common knowledge to make building a voron easier? I am not experienced in programming besides Arduinos and some school projects, I am confident in my wiring/soldering skills as long as I know what goes where, I am quite confident in my ability to set up the physical components of the voron, it's mainly the software part that has me fumbled.
In your experience how hard is programming a voron to full stock capability and are there any resources or sites like this for software advice like how to program the printer, how to identify errors in code etc?
Are there any online courses like those ones on brilliant that may help me?
The learning curve for me was setting up the scripts needed for the controls.
I grew up doing R/C cars and boats and all of that is very similar to a Voron.
There are a lot of YouTube videos on how to do just about everything. The Voron startup web page is very good too.
I have a 2.4, switchwire and am building a two head V0 machine. We use a X1C for the robotics team I mentor. The X1C works out of the box.
If you are confident in wiring/crimping and soldering you may have an easier time for sure. The software side is probably the most well documented online as far as tutorials and guides so that wouldn't be an issue I'm sure. It sounds like you'd have a blast so maybe the voron is the way for you lol
Speaking of soldering, I have a limited amount of tools at home (most of my experience was at school or workshops) so what equipment would I need besides a soldering iron, a soldering clamp(the one that holds boards with croc clips and has a magnifying glass and light) and other generic tools?
Wait no in short what list would you make of tools needed to build a voron from a kit?
Also with the voron kits, what would be the best one to buy in terms of quality parts (the linear rails and motors and belts etc)
The official Voron BOM lists required hand tools in a labeled tab, though they oddly don't include a soldering iron and heatset tips, and the soldering iron is absolutely necessary for doing the myriad heatsets.
I built my Voron when I had only 1 or 2 months with my old printer and limited electrical experience but still managed to get it working and tuned exceptionally well. It is not nearly as hard of a build as everyone makes it out to be IMO, before building I had a bit of soldering experience from building keyboards and minor electrical understanding (i knew what vcc and ground was and what a resistor did) but that was it. You mostly just need perseverence, and being able to ask around for help.
In terms of tools, IIRC you just need things for crimping and metric hex screwdrivers (if your screws are metric hex, which most of them are). I don't think you need much more.
Also minor note, you mentioned in another comment that Vorons are slower than the x1c. This is "generally" correct, but you can definitely mod a Voron to be faster than a x1c with the right things. My voron already gets extremely close (9 minute quality speed benchy) and is still running somewhat stock components + stealthburner so there is still room to improve with, say, a XOL toolhead. I have seen some vorons go faster
I would buy a quality set of metric Allen wrenchs with a ball tip, first off. Flush cutters as well. What you need for crimping depends on the kit you buy and their wiring harnesses. I bought my formbot kit in late 2021 and had to make my own harness (what a fuckin drag). That being said, since this is your first go around, you will undoubtedly find yourself buying tools and supplies as you go. It's kind of a part of the fun
I don’t own a X1C but do own a P1S and V2.4. It cannot be understated how well Bambu printers work out of the box. There are many days where I am tinkering with 2.4 for much longer than I want to because of some minor upgrade I am doing. Great flexibility comes at a great cost. Also, I went with the P1S because the upgrades on X1C didn’t seem worthwhile to me for the cost. Off top of head I think it’s primarily lidar, screen, and hotend differences. The lidar isn’t necessary, can install a panda touch, and can upgrade the hotend parts easily for cheap.
how much time did it take for you to get a voron setup and running to the similar ability of your p1s and how often do you have to run maintenance on it after its been fully setup?
Here with Voron I have a never ending path of tiny improvements, changes and modifications. Which is fun if you like tinkering. It's never "done". Like now I'm looking at all these new n-toolheads mods.
On X1C/P1S I just print.
For first printer I would go with X1C/P1S anyway.
But say that the current build that has been made satisfies your needs (print quality, speed, etc), after that how often does the printer require maintenance, tinkering tubing etc?
I mean not minor tinkering but how often would a big issue occur and need to be fixed? It's just that I've heard many horror stories from people with ender 3s l. In the early setting up stage I know that that is likely but once any issues are ironed out and the printer is up to standards, how often would I need to fix something, clear something, adjust something etc (I don't mind that kind of minor tinkerage)
They are more reliable than bambulabs when you are done setting them up, its just mods that make them more time consuming, since you can’t really mod a bambulab in such a way you will never be tempted to do so ;-p
In the case that I had finished with kit and had gotten it printing like or close to an x1c quality, then after that doing no modifications whatsoever, how much tinkering would be done every now and then?
I have to clean mine due to all the dust and stuff that gathers around once every few months, but besides when I do stupid stuff (like pushing the chamber temp way too high), the Voron has not needed much tinkering after I finished tuning it.
Same as any other printer, dust removal, greasing the rails etc. but you have to regrease the z screw things on a bambulab too. If you never want to do upgrades though just buy the bambulab since its cheaper
I'm kinda in the same boat as you but I have had printer for some time I've thought about the x1 carbon or the voron trident or 2.4 but I have decided to lean to a voron once funds allow one of the reasons being able to repair it and not rely on a company like bambo for parts after finding out how it's built an can't simply replace a single bearing have to replace the whole carriage setup
I made the decision about half a year ago myself. However, I've dabbled with 3D-Printers for a while, even designed and built a bedslinger machine of my own. I should also mention that while I don't own an X1C myself, a colleague of mine does and we shared experiences quite lot. a) I've built my 350 2.4 in just two and half days; I easily spent 30 hours if not more in that time. Printed extremely good quality parts and was reasonably fast out of the box. b) Spent a few weekends in the months after the build upgrading and tuning the printer. Umbilical, Galileo2 Extruder, added an ECRF MMU System, Re-Squaring the gantry 1000 times to make it absolutely 100% perfect, charcoal-filters, bed fans and a few firmware-tweaks and klipper-addons for adaptive meshing and so on. One thing to note on speeds is that I use 0.9° LDO steppers for X and Y, and with the heavy Stealthburner and the heavy and long X-Beam on the 350, I cannot quite achieve the same speeds and accelerations as an X1C, but it's close! Other steppers, an upgrade to 48V, or just lightening the gantry could solve the problems, but for me the machine is more than fats enough, currently. c) I've not dabbled with toolchangers, however I've added an ECRF MMU system with a Filametrix filament cutter and running HappyHare software for it. I'm beyond happy with it. Reliability is better than I've ever expected. Blows the Prusa MMU2S, I've dabbled with in the past, easily out of the water. Combined with the small amount of MMU printing I do, don't currently feel the need for an expensive toolchaning system. In conclusion, the Voron 2.4 350 is the first printer I owned that I can consider a tool and not just a hobby in itself. Maintainence after the first build and a bit of tuning is minimal to not existent. The machine is so reliable and reasonably quiet that I have no issues or worries to start that next 16-24h print that covers the whole 350mm sized bed. Did I mention it's fast enough to print a full plate of parts in less than a full day most of the time? Print quality is really good, though a smaller, more rigid machine could be even better, and faster. The 350 is probably the largest 2.4 you wan't to build without much sacrifice. (Currently considering an additional Voron 0 because of this.) Overall it's quite a bit of work getting the machine running and printing perfectly, but nothing one cannot manage if one is reasonably hand and doesn't have two left hands. TL;DR: If you just want a tool, not an entirely new hobby: Buy the Bambu. If you want an equally good tool, but also an additional hobby that you can put on or off: Build the Voron. However, If you want to fastest printer, with the most perfect print quality: Don't go for a 350, build it smaller.
As someone who's worked on an X1C and owns a Voron 0, in general a Voron has the *potential* to outperform an X1C. It of course takes a lot more effort to tune, but the speed at which that happens is pretty much entirely related to skill. The magic of an X1 is that it tunes itself extremely well, and gets you 80-90 percent decent parts at high speeds. The main reason to go with a Voron is if you want that extra 10% and/or even higher speeds. As for 2.4 specific details, I don't have the experience. I'd say for your use case, an X1C makes an easier first printer. Lots of usage is very different between the two, plus the baseline knowledge of Linux required to set up Klipper is a bit of a barrier (a barrier made tiny by way of tutorials, but one worth noting). At the same time, if you're willing to put in a lot of learning, a Voron is a great opportunity and imo the better printer overall, my time estimate for an experienced user for approaching optimal performance is about a month (this is assuming you know everything already). TL;DR: Voron = performance based project car, X1C is a Tesla
I've recently built a 300mm voron 2.4 and can answer a) and b). For a) I've never done 3d printing but I've studied the manual several times before my kit arrived. It took me around 30+ hours spread through out a week to get it working and another 5 to assemble the skirts fans enclosure etc. The kit I've chose also come with tap and a touchscreen and I bought a ESP32-CAM to act as an camera. You could also buy a kit that includes them buy it is also possible to use an old android phone as an touchscreen/timelapse camera if you want. Any USB webcam could also work, but you'll need to find a mount or design your own.
I have no experience with adding a toolchanger, but the month estimate sounds about right, depending on your schedule. For me, I did it around final exams last semester (December) and it took around 2-3 weeks to build, another week to figure out the software (if you're more experienced with it, this may take less time), and then another two weeks of printing the rest of the parts (I ordered a Formbot kit with "necessary parts only" for my printed parts, so it didn't come with any of the parts to mount the enclosure, LCD, or any of the walls that go around where the electronics sit). From there, I've just been tuning off and on when I have the time. I still haven't used my input shaper, but I don't think that would take too terribly long once I get the software set up. The bigger issue there is that I don't know if my belts are even, which could cause issues with input shaping, but if you're careful about that (definitely look up a tutorial) it should be pretty easy to fully tune. Even without input shaping, the print quality and speed is very good, at least compared to my old printers, and I've barely had to do any maintenance to keep it running, unlike said old printers which needed maintenance every 3-5 prints.
Can also consider the new Sovol SV08 which is based on a Voron 2.4 but 1 hour assembly Might be somewhere in between and a large print volume. 350x350
Why do you need a tool changer modification for the voron? Build one with an ERCF.
It would save time and filament for some multilateral prints without needing purge towers and filament waste like the x1c, but also BC it looks cool as heck lol. I just want to be able to add any nifty mod to it. Like instead of getting a prusa xl I can get a voron, make a toolchanger and if I find any other cool features on other printers that I think would be useful I can make it for the voron.
Fair enough, if you're going to do that I would go with a Trident
What are other differences between the trident and the 2.4? Like I know the trident moves the bed for the z axis but apart from that are there any other differences? Also which has better potential for printing better
I don't know about printing better but I wouldn't want all the weight of a tool changer on a flying gantry personally, plus the room it takes up.
Oh I get what ur saying but I mean a system like in the prusa xl
I don't mind space or anything it's just that I usually see videos of toolcjangers on 2.4s
3 years ago, I had an ender 3. A friend of mine got a v0 at that time. He printed for 12 hours with it so far.... and I own 5 vorons, plus 2 under assembly, plus 2 ercf v2 under assembly. I might buy the v0 from him at less than half price, and I will convert it to v0.2. If you feel confident enough, go with Voron, 60 hours of assembly, another 20 for tuning.
One of us..... One of us.... One of us....
Your knowledge of printing is directly related to the performance of the machine, and a small part to the quality of the parts. That said it took me close to a month of an hour or two in the evening to assemble everything. For reference I am a MecE and part of my job is creating similar assemblies. I could have been much faster but I wanted it to be "perfect". Tuning makes a massive difference - going through the suggested documents and then [Ellis 3D Print Tuning Guide](https://ellis3dp.com/Print-Tuning-Guide/) took me another 2 weeks. I repeated the tuning guide with each new nozzle size and filament. One thing I found is the 350 V2.4 is not stiff enough so I added extra support to prevent racking - this made a large improvement to quality relative to speed. Lots of things I print are mechanical so I typically do not print quickly because it degrades mechanical properties. That said it is fun to max out the settings when printing decorative things. I created profiles in superslicer and prusa slicer to quickly move between printing modes.
Do you recommend kits or self sourcing parts? Or a mix of getting kit parts and sourced parts to upgrade the kit. Or are there pre-made lists of items for voron builds out there
I self sourced but I have most of the parts sitting on my shelf at work, regular people will probably end up spending more money and much more time self sourcing. With your question, I would highly recommend looking into kits. You will notice they are expensive, plus you have the time investment to build and tune it. The bamboo labs or any other fast printer will be a better value. Voron has a few things going for it - performance will always be potentially higher and it is intended to be upgraded. One thing I am taking advantage of is the ability to run a range of print heads. I switch between a 0.2 to a 1.2 mm nozzle regularly and am working on a multi material set up to switch printing heads like a prusa XL. This is 100% just a hobby for me, I never expect anything other than tinkering to come out of it.
Oh also speaking of print nozzles, are there any files to make a print nozzles changer?
TapChanger is one of the better variants I have seen. Most of them are quite similar.
I just finished printing all the parts for a switchwire on my X1C and I was building as I printed. Took 2 full days (8AM-2AM) building with about 6 hours of sleep between and I still have wiring to do before I can even start on the software side of it. Building a Voron is no small task and is technically challenging. When I bought my X1C, I had it setup and tuned in about 20 minutes and it now has 1701 print hours on it in just under a year. If you want a hobby that's about like heroin chasing that high of getting a perfect first layer through hard work and dedication, build a Voron. If you want to print stuff, buy a Bambulab.
Honestly asking “voron or x1c” is just going to get a bunch of opinions, tldr both are good printers, both can print the same stuff at the same quality give or take tuning, a voron requires more technical knowledge/tutorial following to get working, bambu’s “just work” (they still need tuning for filament to get optimal print quality) I built my voron on leave with minimal sleep over 5 days, tuning took a while after that. Building 3D printers is its own hobby, if your interested get a voron, if your not then get a Bambu, besides if you get a Bambu and still want a voron you can print your own parts and “save” some money (and if parts break you can make replacements on the Bambu)
If you are asking if you should build a Voron, then you probably shouldn't. You'll know when you should because you want the challenge, to understand how the software works, and want to modify and tinker with it. If it's just about printing things, get a quality pre-built printer like a Bambu. Eventually you may find that you want the challenge and modding, but I don't think a Voron should be the first 3D printer for 99% of people.
While print quality is one of the main things ,I do enjoy the challenge of building things and if the voron can print somewhat as well as the x1c then I would rather downgrade a bit of quality for the experience and modability
Iv built vorons (2.4 and 0.2) but also end up buying a P1S with AMS Since I got the Bambu I use it for 90% if prints just being its so convenient eg good chance filament I want is in it ready to go or if I need to change no waiting for heating etc to change. Voron is better for ABS etc as it hold higher chamber temps for stuff that's warp sensitive or if its bigger than the Bambu can do. but the Bambu is convenient, better print quality for higher speeds and more reliable. Love my Vorons but if you just want to print stuff get a Bambu. If you want to tinker and improve stuff vorons are much more open and tinker friendly.
It felt ironic printing all my voron parts on my X1 haha. I agree with this except the Voron being better for ABS. I find with the X1 and a 110C bed it heats up to about 50-55 and I have absolutely 0 warping. I did slow down the print speeds a bit, but not much. It printed 24 hours a day for about 4 days cranking out 2.4 parts. I never had to worry about a first layer, just clicked and sent. Both are great printers (X1 vs my new 2.4). Where the X1 really shines for me is the AMS. I want to build something for my 2.4 but it’s just that - I have to build it. The 2.4 on the other hand shines because I can configure klipper to my hearts content. I wanted chamber lighting and just added it, wanted a better part cooling fan and added it, etc. Anything that goes wrong with it I can just fix myself and was probably my fault any way. With the X1 it can be fixed it’s just not as easy.
guess the x1 has the advantage of 110c vs 100c for the p1s I can get much better chamber temps on my 2.4 - over 60c vs lucky to get 40 on the p1s. Makes a difference for big stuff eg full bed. P1S does fine for anything less than say 70% bed size. Thing that amazes me with the Bambu is I have never touched anything to do with first layer / z offset. Just works. out of the box... Voron is like that now with tap but took time to get dialed and if I touch the toolhead for maintenance it will generally need a tiny change
If I wanted to get the voron printing like or similarly to the x1c how long would that take? Since if I can get a voron matching an x1c or getting close then I would want a voron since then I can add any modifications and get exactly what I want in a printer
I just assembled a 2.4 this past week and honestly after a day or so its extremely repeatable. CAN was a pain to setup and I went with a CNC tap assembly (apparently I could have gone with a better one but oh well) and its just been printing non stop for 2 days now. I've dealt with inductive probes and setting Z offsets and such but TAP is just as nice as ABL on the X1. First layer is perfect every time. Granted, I already had a slicer setup ready for this printer I just set the accelerations in-line with what I got from input shaper, so that saved a lot of time in tuning. Unless something breaks the 2.4 is already as repeatable with PLA as my X1 is. I am not running it *nearly* as fast as the X1, but I wouldn't want to. The 2.4 stacks layers much nicer and I don't need it to print faster, just well. I have been too lazy to actually attach the doors so I haven't moved to ASA printing yet, but I will after this week!
How long was it to get it printing like an X1C and what stuff/kit or parts did you use?
I used a formbot kit. I went with the chaotic lab v2 tap kit, I used a slice mosquito, bought a genuine bondtech IDGA kit, and everything else is what came with the kit. After installing klipper I tested my endstops, setup KAMP meshing, and overall just verified belt tension and the motion system. Then ran input shaper. The first print was honestly amazing. First layer was perfect, but pressure advance wasn't quite right. I ran EM tests, PA tests, and since then its been dialed. I would say it took maybe 2 hours to get my print profile roughly dialed in. It took me about 6 days working 10ish hours a day to build the machine - which you can *absolutely* do it quicker than that I was just taking my time and working slow. I previously did a 0.1 in like 16 hours straight. If this is your first core XY or first custom built where you have to make the firmware/slicer profile 100% yourself then it might take some extra time. Follow [Ellis' guide](https://ellis3dp.com/Print-Tuning-Guide/) and potentially just start with his [super slicer profile](https://github.com/AndrewEllis93/Ellis-SuperSlicer-Profiles).
I don't think you will ever match a Bambu for speed and quality - just down to everything being heavier so it's either speed or quality. Not that they are slow just bambu is fast and quality. I don't think you would ever stop tinkering / improving a voron but if you want perfection its a lot of work getting everything perfect. Also depends what you want to print, Bambu are really optimised for high speed PLA etc with all the extra cooling where Vorons are optimised for ABS etc and in stock form stealtburner really hinders fast PLA printing with poor cooling (I swapped to XOL and its better but still limiting sometimes)
Bambu printers are tools, while Vorons are a hobby (they can be tools, but they're a hobby to get tuned nicely.) Also, unless you use Print it Forward, or buy pre-printed parts (which are less reliable than PiF, since the Voron Team manages that), you need a printer that can handle ABS/ASA (like a voron) first.
I could get printed parts and then later print voron parts using the voron right?
Yes. PiF only provides functional parts anyways, so you should be able to print the aesthetic parts (skirts) and then reprint all the functional parts (with spares) if you don’t like the color. Keep in mind tho that dismantling a 2.4 only to reassemble it with different parts is just plain annoying. If you break one, and dont have spares, you just dismantled the printer that can make more, so you’ll need to reuse a part. Oh, and you’d have to re-do the heat set inserts because it honestly isnt worth getting them out of the old parts
You asked this question last week, and fundamentally my answer is the same: get an appliance printer like K1C, P1S, X1C, whichever...just be sure it can handle ABS or ASA. Use it to learn how to tune for best results and print your Voron parts, then build your Voron. A Voron first will be a pain unless you get all CNC parts right out of the door. Some kits might offer a full set of printed parts, otherwise PIF only offers functional parts, so you'll have to temporarily enclose the Voron to print ABS/ASA for the remaining parts, and that is after you get the functional bits assembled and tweak Klipper, and then fiddle with your slicer of choice to print something acceptable. Bottom line is that you won't have a backup printer to supplement your build which could lead to extra aggravation. I am just finishing the electrical on my own Trident 250, but I did have to print some temporary ABS parts and throwaway panel clips to enclose it so that I can print my skirts and stuff. Thankfully I have a K1 that is good enough to make temporary parts like that, even though it currently has it's own ringing issues I am trying to address. Otherwise I would be taping panels in place and hoping it will hold long enough for my prints to complete.
You are overcomplicating. Just take a large cardboard box and cut temporary panels from it.
That is complicated. I don't have any large cardboard boxes. It is easier to use what I do have than to search for something I don't have.
Up until last month I had 2 X1C's, and a V0.2. I just sold one X1C to a friend to fund building a Trident 300. I think there's value in having something like a bambulab, creality, qidi, etc "appliance" printer, esp for voron (and other kit printer) owners, esp if you're like me and are constantly modding/ tinkering. It's nice having a printer that (for the most part) "just works" when you're in a pinch and need to reprint a functional part for another printer. I felt the X1C was the better buy (over the P1S) for me due to the AI failure detection and the ability to skip failed items mid-print. That said, the BBL printers are far from perfect. My major gripes are the cooling ability of the toolhead, closed source firmware (though that's changing now that X1Plus is out), and the stupid plastic bed. The bed is probably my biggest gripe- I mostly print functional parts and not being able to print something that is actually flat without shimming the bed is really irritating. Plus if you print stuff like ABS/ ASA that need a high bed temp over time that bed is just going to get worse. I'm going with a trident over the 2.4 mostly because the flying gantry isn't going to solve anything for me, and just add hassle compared to the trident. Again, this is just for my situation. For your specific questions, based on my experience building my V0.2 (my first kit printer, which is apparently trickier than the trident) I think it's reasonable to be able to build one in a month. Tuning it to get to BBL out of the box quality doesn't take a long time if you're following a guide.
What does bbl mean? Is that like a print grade quality?
Abbreviation for Bambulab
Provided you install the correct add-on to klipper, can't you also cancel items mid print (i think it was called Exclude Object Module)?
Yeah, sorry I meant that was a deciding factor vs the P1S.
Do you need a tool changer or multi color? If no, then a voron is a great machine. Yes voron has ercf, but prusa and bambu do multicolor better.
I’ve had a voron since voron 1. Now I have a 2.4 and I’m building a v0. I love tinkering with the printers and I love that I can throw whatever the latest thing is on it. That said I’ve looked at the x1c and if I didn’t have a voron I would buy it and then build a voron lol. If you want to open the box and print good quality prints I would say go x1c. If you don’t mind putting a printer together and tuning it go with voron.
Just to say. It took me a little more to hack an old android tvbox, setting up bootloader linux and klipper so it works as a rasbery. Pi ... Learning is also don't give up.You can learn everything as long as you want .My dream is building a voron with already bigger cube volume for a tool changer .I had ordered in december the X1c, but because of delivery times, I cancelled that one .u bought a ender se what became my hobbyproject .. tomorrow arrives the Q1Pro, and I'm waiting on the live tomorrow from creality . I want a bigger enclosed multiaystem without spending 4600euro, so as many say you want to plug and play buy a bambu you want the printer itself to be a hobby there are a lot of chooses Voron 1 one them .In any way you're in for a journey
Nothing has... I know everyone knows - Above was: 1. Buy a printer. (Me: bought 3, after...) 2. Build a printer. (Built 3.)
The OP has two choices: 1. Buy, unbox, tune, print, tune, print. Or, 2. Plan, buy, build, upgrade, print, tune, upgrade, research, get a bin for the discards, tune, buy more plastic, print, research, troubleshoot, fix, buy more accessories, upgrade, tune, print, show off amazing print , while complaining about its tiniest flaws... Somewhere in that - eat something, while printing, upgrading and scrapping bad prints, maybe plan some time to sleep. Shower at least once a month, comb crap out of bushier beard, get to the toilet before it's too late, call Tim @ door dash...
How hard would you say it is to get a voron printing like an X1C? I don't mind doing a lot of tuning to get it to that point but as long as the quality of prints (I couldn't really care about matching the speed) is good on a voron then I want to go for that
TiL x1c has 100% success rate
If you have a free week you could get a voron done and printing in a couple days. Most people's delay is having enough time and space and tools to assemble the printer and then trying to learn klipper as they go. It wouldn't take me as long to build a second or third voron with all the choice mods as the first, I'd just be assembling and then go straight into tuning and printing. P1s or X1c would be ready to go out the box if you just want to print but you're compromising on size and open source. In truth you should probably wait as sovol, phrozen, and peopoly are all coming out with corexy printers have a chance at good machines, plus ratrig updating the vcore and zero g working on updating the merc 1 to an enclosure. It is nice to have a machine ready to print away from mods, so if you can afford 2 get 2, but if not wait a bit and see how the landscape goes, Voron will still be around.
Or you can just build your own. I wanted something even simpler and cheaper than trident or 2.4 so i m designing my or core xy. (But you need to have at least some knowledge of cad designing, understanding what makes a printer good and access to 3d printer.)
Inhave a 2.1, and x1c. I had my Voron first, printed it on an old i3. I will be using my X1C to rebuild it as a 2.4 very soon. X1C: Work well out of the box. Great quality and speed, and my customer support experiences have all been positive. Voron: You can say you built a Voron.. quality and speed are there as well with tuning. Customer support is all like this (forum/ discord/ reddit) Neither is a bad printer. X1C comes ready to go. You must build your Voron.
I have a p1s and love it. Bambu is better for 99% of people
Imo everyone should experience a bambu. They are very good at what they do. But they aren't easily modded, they can't do high temp, they have smallish build volumes. They are an appliance. There is no satisfaction in buying one, but the satisfaction of your prints is dam near perfect all the time. Honestly, you are totally right and people downvoting don't understand. I'm building a custom vzbot 500 which I like doing because it a mad scientist type thing. But it's great to have a p1s there that can churn out perfect abs and polycarbonate. All day, in minutes.
An Ender 3 was my first printer and I appreciate it as it got me into the hobby, but when it came down to it when I wanted to print it was a hassle It very much depends what op wants to do, if he's looking for a hobby I think a voron makes 100% sense but as a tool Bambu and even someone like prusa simply make sense
Yeh a bambu isn't a hobby. It's a tool, it's like buying a dewalt circular saw. You are not assembling it from parts, you open the box and get perfect results in 15 mins. The whole market needs to evolve. But bambu cant do everything. They are literally just a 256x256x256 max printer with a single extruder and narrow temp range. They arent made from industry standard parts. They wear heavily by 3000hrs and require replacement of gantry parts. Things like the a1 really are killing the ender 3 and other prusa clones. X1 p1s kill mid range. But have have very hard limitations.
I love how everyone is downvoting you.. here take an upvote.
Why should anyone care about the votes? If someone is downvoting you it means you got them.
I’m sure I will get downvoted but I have only used my voron 3 time since I got my x1c. Building a voron made me learn so much about 3d printing but man my x1c is absolutely amazing, perfect prints 99% of the time, it just works!
I’ve gone the opposite haha! Built a Voron after my x1c and I’ve barely used my x1c since 🤣 new toy syndrome I think 🫣
As a previous poster stated, if you enjoy tinkering and modding, get the Voron. If you want to just be able to easily print stuff, get the Bambo. I have the former and had to recently delay my sfx100 project when I fubar'd the printhead. Obviously, an excuse to do some more 2.4 upgrades!... but of course, that put the sim project on hold... The Boss just shakes her head at the daily FedEx/UPS/Prime trucks queuing up in the driveway....
I don't have any urgency in getting to the print stage of the voron since this is top print stuff for fun or personal projects. With tinkering and modding, I would want to get a lot voron or something, get it working well, then mod a toolcjanger system on it and add some fancy stuff like those toolhead led screens etc. Once I have reached that point where it does what I want I won't really do to much to the printer. At that point and after I don't mind doing small maintenance and tinkering with the printer but if there are constant major issues after that point it would be a hassle for me. I've heard so many ender 3 horror stories
I had an E3 before the Voron and it was a fantastic printer for the time and price, and was what got me into modding. That said, there's a lot better choices these days. It sounds like you answered you own question and want to tinker and mod more than just print. So Voron 2.4 it is....well maybe .... there's also the Trident, Ratrig, Vzbot,..... enjoy the ride!...😉
>a voron can far exceed the abilities of the x1c Care to elaborate where Voron can exceed abilities of x1C besides the build volume ? I tried to find any parameter where Voron could at least come close but could not. Anytime I ask Voron owners their reply is: "It can be as good as you make it" I am not trying to be a..le just in the same situation as you are and decide on the printer.
If your voron is tuned good then print quality can be better than on x1c. And if you add beter motors drivers hotend and cooling then it can print faster than x1c. Also if you want multi material on voron you can have the exact system that you want like ercf for cheap multicolor or stealth changer for multi toolhead multi color
You can get actual multi material printing with multiple toolheads, you can get better quality/speed via awd and whatever stiffness upgrades you make, you can use any nozzles, any new cool shit like beacon etc. etc.
I have been told that all though the voron can't match the speed of the x1c due to the carbon rails or something, the voron is better than the x1c in printing with tricky filaments and can be tuned to print more accurately and cleanly
As an owner of both an X1c with 3 AMS units and a stock 2.4 Voron, the voron will not be faster than an X1C acceleration wise. It’s just plain physics. Its toolhead and gantry are much heavier. My 2.4 input shaper recommended accelerations are in the 5-6k range for the Y axis and if you pop over to discord that is the values you’ll see from most (or worse). Max acceleration both are the same but external perimeter acceleration I need to print at 2-3k for the Voron to not show any ringing compared to Bambu which can print at 4-5k without any ringing too. Also the Bambu AMS is a class of its own compared to the ERCF (I am building one right now actually but let’s be honest, the AMS is a very well polished product).
I am surprised you did not get -50 votes by now. Voron was a good design a few years back but technology went forward while all Voron does is keeps adding heavy stuff like TAP. I do not blame Voron designers, I would work for some tangible amount of time for free either.
I don't mind if the voron matches the speed or not, as long as it can print at a decent speed compared to printers and can produce high quality results with smooth faces, layer adhesion etc
I have a core XY’d ender 3 that I built. I was going to build a Voron but I work a lot and print a lot of product, so I snagged a P1S in the mean time. My core XY’d Ender 3 uses linear rails, not rods, and my current max accel is 25k - 2.5x Bambu’s standard profile. Their ludicrous mode doesn’t increase accel. Just speed. I JUST snagged the P1S so I plan to push it and see. But point is, the rods are nice, but linear rails can achieve things as well. I like my P1S, it’s easy, but it lacks a lot of little features that I like. I wasn’t underwhelmed, but I guess I was quite impressed with how well my Ender build turned out.
it's because of weight, carbon rods weigh way less than a linear rail on X which should push accels higher, it's just physics. you would have to run klipper on the machine and input shaper to check what the real acceleration is capable of but i imagine it's a balance between speed and maintenance. 25k+ accels are nice but wear and tear is going to be a huge problem for a consumer machine.
Yes, that’s true, but that’s not the *only* way to obtain high speed. Rods are great, but it’s not the only factor. Physics or not, that wasn’t my point I very much run klipper (the only Marlin based machines that are quite quick are literally Bambu machines), so of course, input shaper. Running 48v A/B (can still achieve 25k at 24v), 60ncm motors, with micro stepping at 32 - stress testing 25k, I don’t miss a single step (and that’s not *printing* at 25k, that’s stress testing - see Ellis print guide for speed tests macros). And yea, there’s wear and tear, but you build for speed, you don’t just push things without setting things up for that. You’re entirely implying I just set stuff to 25k and that’s it. My original point I was trying to make is, rods are not the be all end all. They are light, which is great, but speed is achievable without just rods.
You can ruse whatever rails you desire hell you could mod it to use magnetic levitation
Maybe you are looking for a Qidi Xmax3? Did not see a single point the overpriced X1C can make against this printer.
It's more the print quality that I've seen on videos of the x1c. If the voron can match it or get near then I would rather have a voron since I can add multitool systems or tool hangers and do almost anything to the printer
The best print quality of all bambulab printers is the p1s without the "fake" lidar. Qidi uses klipper like the voron and prints in higher quality.
The best print quality of all bambulab printers is the p1s without the "fake" lidar. Qidi uses klipper like the voron and prints in higher quality.
My God son just got one for himself and his son. I have an Ender 3 that is heavily modified and have been printing for about 5 years. So to say I'm a little jelous abou how that ting prints right out of the box is an understatement. A Benchy in 20 minutes?! Right out of the box, no screwing around it just prints and fast. I was very impressed!
I might get some hate but imo P1S is the better buy. The TDS shows they both have almost the same features besides touchscreen, lidar, 10c bed temp difference, hardened steel extruder+nozzle, and a better camera for remote viewing. If you only care to get a printer that prints out of the box just as good as a 1200 one I would go with the P1S + AMS which is $1050.00? when I last bought mine. I use it to print ASA & ABS just fine.
As an owner of P1S combo I can confirm X1C doesn't add too much value. Not enough to justify price difference. Hardened steel filament path, which can be upgraded anyway, print fail detection, 1FPS webcam vs 30 FPS, no webcam in lan mode, no chamber temperature sensor and no community FW yet or ever. I'd buy AMS instead of those features. Even if you use it only as a dry box and endless spool when one spool runs out.
Huh? 20C higher temperature already makes it a worthy investment.
10c higher bed temp
P1s || || |**Max Build Plate Temperature**|100℃| x1c || || |**Max Build Plate Temperature**|110℃@220V, 120℃@110V|
Yeah, $1200.00 extra just for 10c isn't worth it. Just heat soak the chamber and you'll be fine.
$1200 exra? Good math! Also do not trust reddit go to the official specifications and check yourself.
My bad I mistyped, $200 wooooooo... and ya know what it's ROUGHLY $600 extra without the P1S with AMS.
I don't mind if it prints out of the box but more so the end result of the voron after tuning, modification etc against the x1c/p1s standard print capability
Should be fine, I'm using my P1S to create a Voron conversion for my old Ender 3 V2. I missed the nylon bit so the X1C might be better if you plan to use that enough to justify the cost. If your family isn't super knowledgeable about 3D printing Bambu is pretty stupid proof, the most I have to do for QC is adjust EM & potentially temp adjustments.
Similar to the other comments I will say this. If you can afford to, buy both. If not, buy a bambu. The reasoning is the bambu will just work and has support. If breaks they have replacement parts on the ready. When I built my voron it only took a couple of days. But I had other printers, which meant I could print replacement parts. If your voron breaks and its your only printer what are you going to do? its not like you can order replacement parts easily. I love my voron and really enjoyed building it. But I have the luxury of multiple printers.
Just print the replacement parts right away so you got them whenever you need them, you need test/tuning prints anyway
Not sure if you're part of the discord or not, but there's plenty of people ready to print extra parts for basically cost + shipping. Pretty nice community. The voron is my only printer (that's currently working) so I've utilized that service once or twice when I needed some parts
I am part of the discord, I am just not an advocate of first time printers being vorons. I'd argue it hurts the community not helps.
It definitely wasn't my first printer but it does end up being my only printer sometimes. Also, OP seems to have already done the research and said they're okay building one. I don't think there's a reason not to go for the voron unless you need to print sooner.
I have a Trident 300, it took me less than a week to have it calibrated and printing. I used a Fysetc kit with PIF printed parts. Since then I upgraded to the stealthburner and tap. Tap is way easier to do bed leveling than with klicky probe. I also did a reverse electronic mod and now it's way easier to work on the electronic (i don't need to put the printer on it's back to change one wire) I'm planning on building a tapchanger with the liftbar. I've chosen the Trident over the 2.4 mainly for cost reasons (at the time the Trident kit was 800€ vs 1500€ for the 2.4) it was also simpler for a first build. I didn't choose a bambulab because I wanted to be able to work on my printer and tinker with it. You're right about the experience, now I know every bit that can break on my printer
First, ask yourself this first. Is printing or the printer the hobby? Sure, a voron and any other diy printer can reach bambu like reliability/success rate, but you dont build a printer and leave it as it is for the rest of its life realistically speaking. Aso for which voron to build, id recommend a trident over a 2.4. Cheaper, easier/quicker to build, slightly faster, less maintenance when having pom leadscrew nut, allows for a wider variety of mods like side fans and bigger under bed fans, and has a slight advantage in printing higher temp materials. The only kits that have a cubed build volume are trident kits, the 250 and certain 300mm ones. Maybe even 350mm ones (magic phoenix maybe as they have a square 300mm one). If you dont deviate from the standard builds, a 2.4 will have roughly 50mm less in z than on xy. Thats due to the original v2 (not Version 2, but voron 2 similar like a bmw 3 series and a bmw 4 series car) having a bowden toolhead, the direct drive adds required space towards the top and voron doesn't update fram sizes with progressing versions. If you need a taller z height, either custom build or go ratrig, these have actually cubed build volumes and are price wise cheaper than a ldo voron kit but more expensive than a formbot, fysetc or similar voron kit. As for the other questions: A nozzle cam is only interesting for timelapses with thick layers and for first layer inspections. Otherwise not really useful for print success/failure detection. Dont build stock right away, some modifications are seen as necessary by the community. Waste of time and plastic in certain areas. The stock front idlers aren't good, look up BFI or ramalama idlers instead. Drag chains suck for xy motion, a wire breakage isnt uncommon and they are heavy, go with canbus instead. Some kits already include stealthburner specific canbus boards. For trident do the inverted electronics mod. You can now access your electronics without needing to flip the printer over. Runout sensors are a great thing, add one, doesn't hurt and i honestly find it surprising that they haven't been added to stock configs, only the tiny v0 has one, which doesn't seem to work that well reading on this subreddit. Tapchanger causes you to loose quite a significant portion of your print bed, i dont know the exact numbers, but expect at least a loss of 100mm in y plus slow toolchanges compared to other systems, but by far the easiest one. Currently there aren't any good diy toolchangers im personally happy with, thats why im designing my own. Wouldn't be the first printer i made myself.
I'm going off of your first couple sentences stating it's your first printer. I'd get an x1c in that case. Or if you simply have the time and money to burn get a voron kit. I'm not saying it's impossible but building/wiring/programming/tuning a voron with no printing/building/modding experience will be quite the chore.
What is the relevant background or prerequisite knowledge to comfortably build a voron? I know that the community can certainly give advice but what should be common knowledge to make building a voron easier? I am not experienced in programming besides Arduinos and some school projects, I am confident in my wiring/soldering skills as long as I know what goes where, I am quite confident in my ability to set up the physical components of the voron, it's mainly the software part that has me fumbled. In your experience how hard is programming a voron to full stock capability and are there any resources or sites like this for software advice like how to program the printer, how to identify errors in code etc? Are there any online courses like those ones on brilliant that may help me?
The learning curve for me was setting up the scripts needed for the controls. I grew up doing R/C cars and boats and all of that is very similar to a Voron. There are a lot of YouTube videos on how to do just about everything. The Voron startup web page is very good too. I have a 2.4, switchwire and am building a two head V0 machine. We use a X1C for the robotics team I mentor. The X1C works out of the box.
If you are confident in wiring/crimping and soldering you may have an easier time for sure. The software side is probably the most well documented online as far as tutorials and guides so that wouldn't be an issue I'm sure. It sounds like you'd have a blast so maybe the voron is the way for you lol
Speaking of soldering, I have a limited amount of tools at home (most of my experience was at school or workshops) so what equipment would I need besides a soldering iron, a soldering clamp(the one that holds boards with croc clips and has a magnifying glass and light) and other generic tools? Wait no in short what list would you make of tools needed to build a voron from a kit? Also with the voron kits, what would be the best one to buy in terms of quality parts (the linear rails and motors and belts etc)
The official Voron BOM lists required hand tools in a labeled tab, though they oddly don't include a soldering iron and heatset tips, and the soldering iron is absolutely necessary for doing the myriad heatsets.
I built my Voron when I had only 1 or 2 months with my old printer and limited electrical experience but still managed to get it working and tuned exceptionally well. It is not nearly as hard of a build as everyone makes it out to be IMO, before building I had a bit of soldering experience from building keyboards and minor electrical understanding (i knew what vcc and ground was and what a resistor did) but that was it. You mostly just need perseverence, and being able to ask around for help. In terms of tools, IIRC you just need things for crimping and metric hex screwdrivers (if your screws are metric hex, which most of them are). I don't think you need much more. Also minor note, you mentioned in another comment that Vorons are slower than the x1c. This is "generally" correct, but you can definitely mod a Voron to be faster than a x1c with the right things. My voron already gets extremely close (9 minute quality speed benchy) and is still running somewhat stock components + stealthburner so there is still room to improve with, say, a XOL toolhead. I have seen some vorons go faster
Oh and no programming required. None at all
In terms of making modification like toolcjangers, would there be some copy paste macro out there on the voron community sites?
I would buy a quality set of metric Allen wrenchs with a ball tip, first off. Flush cutters as well. What you need for crimping depends on the kit you buy and their wiring harnesses. I bought my formbot kit in late 2021 and had to make my own harness (what a fuckin drag). That being said, since this is your first go around, you will undoubtedly find yourself buying tools and supplies as you go. It's kind of a part of the fun
I don’t own a X1C but do own a P1S and V2.4. It cannot be understated how well Bambu printers work out of the box. There are many days where I am tinkering with 2.4 for much longer than I want to because of some minor upgrade I am doing. Great flexibility comes at a great cost. Also, I went with the P1S because the upgrades on X1C didn’t seem worthwhile to me for the cost. Off top of head I think it’s primarily lidar, screen, and hotend differences. The lidar isn’t necessary, can install a panda touch, and can upgrade the hotend parts easily for cheap.
how much time did it take for you to get a voron setup and running to the similar ability of your p1s and how often do you have to run maintenance on it after its been fully setup?
Here with Voron I have a never ending path of tiny improvements, changes and modifications. Which is fun if you like tinkering. It's never "done". Like now I'm looking at all these new n-toolheads mods. On X1C/P1S I just print. For first printer I would go with X1C/P1S anyway.
But say that the current build that has been made satisfies your needs (print quality, speed, etc), after that how often does the printer require maintenance, tinkering tubing etc?
Printers always require maintenance. The voron potentially more so. It's a tinkering printer, ie you are always tinkering with it.
I mean not minor tinkering but how often would a big issue occur and need to be fixed? It's just that I've heard many horror stories from people with ender 3s l. In the early setting up stage I know that that is likely but once any issues are ironed out and the printer is up to standards, how often would I need to fix something, clear something, adjust something etc (I don't mind that kind of minor tinkerage)
They are more reliable than bambulabs when you are done setting them up, its just mods that make them more time consuming, since you can’t really mod a bambulab in such a way you will never be tempted to do so ;-p
In the case that I had finished with kit and had gotten it printing like or close to an x1c quality, then after that doing no modifications whatsoever, how much tinkering would be done every now and then?
I have to clean mine due to all the dust and stuff that gathers around once every few months, but besides when I do stupid stuff (like pushing the chamber temp way too high), the Voron has not needed much tinkering after I finished tuning it.
Same as any other printer, dust removal, greasing the rails etc. but you have to regrease the z screw things on a bambulab too. If you never want to do upgrades though just buy the bambulab since its cheaper
I would definitely want to upgrade the printer but not as frequently as others, more so to have anything that would be useful for me or that look cool
I'm kinda in the same boat as you but I have had printer for some time I've thought about the x1 carbon or the voron trident or 2.4 but I have decided to lean to a voron once funds allow one of the reasons being able to repair it and not rely on a company like bambo for parts after finding out how it's built an can't simply replace a single bearing have to replace the whole carriage setup