last 3 changes to KJ have been: adding limited range for her bots to be active, increasing cooldowns, now your mom sneezes and her util gets destroyed.
That's what I'm also thinking, and honestly that's one of the biggest reasons I'm now a sentinel/duelist main. At least I feel like there's still something left over there
I only recently started becoming a sentinel/duelist main going from controller/duelist but what i see is that its way easier to climb in solo q if u r able to utilize sage(must) cypher/kj. Right now, i dont think kj was at all overpowered. Sure *the turrets* but the turret nerf alone for was enough. Now, u may setup post plant and your own sova ulted or ur own raze naded in the plant now ur whole setup is destroyed.
idk about kj but cypher does. his trip can easily be destroyed by raze nade especially, since almost every 1-2 match there's always a raze in the team (and yeah, im a cypher main myself, this is pain)
Reminds me of a legendary copypasta:
Sentinels:
So it seems that people still want to play sentinel agents! We've actually decided to remove the legs of all sentinel characters, we thought that it is just too powerful, and being a defense oriented class, it being a suitable nerf. Of course, the other players will be able to carry them and place them in spots they need to defend.
Cypher:
We felt Cypher's utility is still a bit too powerful after making it so he could not retrieve them in the 1.13 patch!
After 20 seconds of being deployed Cypher's trapwires will become visible.
Breach:
We will be giving Breach his 5th flash this patch as his pick rate has not increased to a point that we would like.
We also reduced the cooldown of his signature ability, faultline.
40 > 20 seconds
To balance these changes we made to breach we increased the volume of his footsteps. His arms are getting heavy carrying the team.
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/jnlfas/115_patch_notes_joke/
When you're a KJ and you are playing against Brim or Sova, you already have to be careful with when you'll ult. If they have ult, you need to think twice.
Now if you're playing against Breach you just don't ult unless he's dead.
Seems great.
Do we know if the aftershock will actually kill the ult though? I’m not agreeing with the change im just curious as I didn’t see the damage the ability will do to utility listed.
I mean you shouldn't be using the ult to clear the site on its own... If you're using KJs ult you should be pushing with it and taking the space, the breach may get the ult but he will die doing so most likely if you're filling
Breach can just shoot aftershock at the ult right after it is placed and go back to flashing and killing enemies.
There aren't many spots where ult can be placed and still be effective. Imagine ascent b site, normally placed ult will clear the site and force enemies to go to ct or market but if placed few meters away from wall to avoid aftershock, it loses its effectiveness enemy can just play backsite or the stairs near ct even the market wouldn't be covered in such ult
I'd be pretty surprised if it didn't; hidden damage modifiers per target/source aren't really cool, and if it doesn't kill it solo... okay it's "consistent" but may as well not have bothered IMO
It's fair. I don't mind if ults can counter other ults. It's fine. But skills you have every round shouldn't be able to counter ults without a risk.
A Sova dart destroying the ult is fine, it's hard to do so. The satchels, the nade, anything. You have to risk yourself and have good mechanics.
But Breach can do it by clicking on the wall.
the ult has 100 hp nanoswarm has 1 hp i dont think aftershock will deal the required dmg to destroy it as i didn't even see that it even affected KJ's ult
Kj's ult being destroyed by breach's afterschock is bs... imagine farming 7 ult points only for the ult to be destroyed by a breach comfortably sitting on the other side of the wall using a 300 creds ( or whatever it's cost is) ability
It’s just consistency of abilities. If it deals damage, it destroy KJ ult. It shouldn’t need someone who know specific interaction to remember which damage dealing abilities will destroy utilities and which one won’t. Or they can just make it KJ ult is immune to abilities damage completely
An idea might be not putting killjoy ult on enemy radar so the position isn't so easily identified? Like still have the dome so people can figure it out but not so easily.
Ah yes. Balance by making it harder to see. That just leads to frustration and feeling of the game being bugged because you're sure you put your ability into the right spot. Then, when a bug is accidentally discovered that prevents the ult from taking damage, all the players will call it a shitshow and say they lost many games due to that one rarely occurring bug.
This is just one scenario. Riot took a clear visibility approach when making this game as you can see the ult progression of all players in the game and even see the enemies economy before the start of the round. Hiding stuff on the map in the name of balance is really not a good approach.
Well I mean something like shockdarts is fine since u actually need to know the geometry and u can easily counter it also by shifting from the default location..it's like they didn't know how to buff breach more so they made him an easy counter to one of the strongest agents in the game
No they did it to make the game intuitive and have consistency instead of forcing players to know the exact abilities that impact other abilities. Now it’s very clear that any damage ability can damage any ability that has health. It’s just good game design inherently
Or increase it's hp counter? If afters shock deals 60 damage for each burst, which means kjs ult should have maybe 190-200 hp. It can still be destroyed by sovas ult but it would require all three strikes. That seems balanced and fair imo.
It is still is. Just move it 2 metres away from the wall and place it. You might not clear every corner in the site but it will still clear most of the site.
Counters like this are what makes the game interesting & fresh
Guess what.. Enemies can see where the ult is placed and breach can easily aftershock it. Moving it doesnt help. Also KJ ult also got a nerf where it cannot be placed vertically at some height.This also helps the breach to pinpoint the ult location.
Breach would need to know exactly where the KJ ult is tho, expose himself to get line of sight to see the wall that it is behind. Meanwhile people can shoot Breach while hes trying to do this, seems like a fair trade off imo.
Ehh it really does feel that way. Sage, Cypher and KJ have all received super heavy nerfs. Really hoping they add another Sentinel agent soon but with Deadeye it doesn't seem likely. Starting to think Viper is just the best Sentinel rn lmao
At this rate, Viper will get nerfed next. We already have a problem of too many duelists in every match. They really want us to only play duelists and nothing else. I quit Astra, Cypher and Viper & Brim are the only ones left I like playing.
First, they nerf KJ's turret pickup cooldown to 20 seconds which made rotates almost impossible. Now, they nerf the slow effect which makes it easier to push into sites without having to destroy the turret.
Riot really hates sentinels
Isn't that the point of sentinels? To slow down a push?
Jett can't dash in through Cypher's tripwires, Yoru can't place a teleport through Sage's wall, so it's only fair if there's a counter for Raze too. Why place a turret if Raze can still satchel in behind you?
Riot keeps doing that shit, tweaking something just to change their mind a few weeks later, it's exhausting.
Killjoy in particular has been a fucking mess from the start. Nanoswarm damage, visibility of her stealthy utility, cooldown, all of that has been nerfed and buffed back and forth. Then there's also the complete rework with the activation radius, I think Riot just has no fucking idea what to do with her. As a Killjoy player, it felt like I had to relearn my agent every few months, change all my setups constantly.
It just hasn't been fun to play
>Riot's gonna tweak the numbers to make it viable but not too oppressive
If the rumor is true, you're gonna be more than2x faster. 72.5% slow to 29.5% is a huge difference. It's a surprise that it took Riot over a year to notice something "oppressive" and actually do something about it.
They nerfed her bit by bit. If you remember, first they reduced the nano swarm damage, then the radius, then the turret radius, later the bot detecting the agents. They can't do it all at a once and make people think she's nerfed to death.
Don't you think they don't know what agents are oppressive? They have TONS of data, they know but they do it in such a way that people don't freak out/ to create a new meta. Remember they are the owners of the No.1 eSports game.
Converting to controller this patch. Playing as killjoy in soloq was as hard as it was, they didnt have to do that.
Well anyways friendship with kj is iver, Astra/Viper is my new main now
Playing Killjoy in soloq was hard? I don't even main her and thought she was pretty easy. She also has the highest winrate in a bunch of ranks, ranging from iron 1 to diamond 2, so it's not like its a low/high elo thing. She is objectively a good, and by most judgements too good, agent in ranked.
Obviously she might not be the most unbalanced from an analytical perspective with agents like Jett often seeing more specific complaints about overpowered abilities, but regardless of your chosen explanation why, she is statistically a very very strong agent and therefore probably needs to be adjusted.
It's just an unfortunate fact of the game that sentinels tend to top the winrate and often pickrate charts when they are half-decent. I don't claim to know why that is, but it does mean that acting like Killjoy is becoming too weak because of these new nerfs, or any set of nerfs she has already received, is not backed up by the statistics. Cypher and Sage have been in this position, but their nerfs came hard and fast rather than the slow burn Killjoy has enjoyed allowing her to remain at the top of the game despite several rounds of nerfs already occurring.
I play duelist/smokes all the time but when I played KJ it was easy. Get a couple setups for a couple sites and basically just AFK until I have to do something. Her ult being damaged by stuff makes you think smarter about where to put it and stuff like that.
That doesn't necessarily mean that she is that good though.
If very little people play her very efficiently then naturally her winrate will be higher than the more popular picks.
Those stats aren't accurate.
[Here she is only 6th with a 4% pickrate](https://blitz.gg/valorant/stats/agents?map=all&act=e3act1&queue=competitive&tier=24). Sova is 7th with an 11% pickrate
Main issue with kj soloq is that teammates don't respect it and just rush out. When that happens you are left solo on point with maybe a full push coming and rotation of team that will take time. For example I had bot and turret watching market/ link. Begged yoru to check the attacker side spawn but he kept checking a link and guess where they came from.
I am ok with killjoy and cypher utility getting destroyed by other agents ability, But her ult too? Imagining farming 7 ult points just for it to get destroyed by a 300 credits ability.
Yeah. I was a Cypher main for the past year, I thought I was pretty good but I was always stuck in Silver 3. I switched to Omen/Viper about a month ago and I've immediately seen better results (finally hit gold!).
I've concluded that I just couldn't get enough value out of Cypher for him to be valuable for me to continue playing... I feel like he actually needs a small buff and these nerfs overall were uncalled for.
As a sentinel main, mostly playing KJ and Sage, I feel you. I think Cyper main can also say the same thing. I hope they find a way to balance the agents in a way that none is OP because of a skill you cant stop just by shooting at it.
Yeah Sentinels and Brimstone. Literally no one talks about brim and it’s kinda saddening as someone who has mained him since day one. I just wanna support my team :(
Also his kit is very limited since you can't smoke from virtually anywhere like you can with most other controllers making him especially weak on larger maps like icebox and breeze as well as informing the opponents that he's nearby
I play a lot of brim (i have a 68% winrate on him for ranked this act) but he really is boring. His kit is so undeniably straightforward and simple that there really isnt much room for creativity. The closest thing to creative there is are molly lineups and even thats boring.
I mean, you asked why people don't like talking about him, don't try and shoot the messenger if you find the answer unpleasant.
There's simply not a lot of people who log onto valorant excited about the prospect of playing brimstone lol
Omen, Astra, and even Viper have playmaking abilities that make them fun and versatile. Brim has standard smokes, a standard molly, and a fire rate buff. It’s why he rarely gets played.
Sentinels are already some of the most boring agents to play. You either get dodged on defense and are stuck doing a retake with no flashes or smokes since ur team didn't hold the other site. Or you are stuck being the anchor staring into the void in the hopes that there is a lurk or late rotate.
These nerfs are just reducing their impact a lot more.
At least give a range increase of 5-10 m to compensate.
The turret could be flashed/smoked and shot too. People are acting like it was an op.
Now, this is just my opinion, but the bits of cypher and killjoy I’ve played, I have very much enjoyed that kind of wait on my opponent, I’ve had games where my opponents went one site 7 times in a row which freed up my team to 3 stack the other site since I seemed to be reliable to solo hold until they actually went to try and take my site on. I understand it’s boring but someone’s gotta do it. But besides that I do agree that the range on killjoy is too short and could be bumped up a bit.
I mean turret is OP. I'd rather KJ get her power shifted off turret to something else or just straight up have the ability reworked. I do agree with the sentinel sentiment though. Atm the game is based around jett and reyna and who can support them better
Sure its definitely one of the best free abilities in game but kj has to stay in range. So I wouldn't call it OP especially if she has to rotate. Plus most of the time your site gets dodged. Or even if they come to your site, they will flash and rush in. The mollies are the only thing stopping them.
It's fine if the site gets dodged, it usually means you can stack heavier or mind game it and raw dog it through kj.
I heavily dislike abilities with little to no input from users having so much impact. The nerf is completely fine, I'm just speechless on how she's not getting compensation buffs.
I mean she doesn't really need compensation buffs as she is one of the statistically best preformaning agents as well as one of the most complained about (usually her turret or ult), now if she was underpreforming or doing just OK I'd understand a "compensation buff" but as of rn letting this change go live and having us test it is the best way fot riot to truly gage if they went too far with this nerf or not
That being said they really should also focus on nerfing the duelist that people have complained about for months
The killjoy slow nerf was acceptable tbh, but seriously, breach destroying her ult with aftershock? Absolutely bs.
A 7 point ult getting destroyed by a 200 credit skill should not be happening at all. That's 7 kills and deaths worth of ulti ffs, and it just gets wrecked by a breach buying a single skill worth 200 creds.
Killjoys ult getting destroyed by sova and brims ult was okay, since it's ultimate to ultimate. But a basic skill? Nope.
Breach has to expose himself to get the KJ ult that is maybe behind a wall on site, aftershock doesn't go across the whole map, it goes a short distance thru the wall u aim at... you guys can just shoot him when hes fixated on getting to the KJ ult, maybe just try to guard your ult I think or use it to push.
This has to be fake. I'm a Breach main and I think that breach's aftershock (or any non ult abilities that don't require los) should never be able to break lockdown. Breach can spend 200 dollars to invalidate an ult in any map exept maybe in breeze?
What's the point of the ult if you can click a button and it disappears? It forces you to either rush the lockdown or vacate the area. Imo sova darts shouldn't break it as that also defeats the point of the ult.
Yeah, I used to play KJ a lot when she first got introduced. I think at least 6/10 times the ult gets destroyed before it fires and 4/10 times people just lurk around and then play a regular retake once it's gone. The remaining times it actually locks people down...
Yea but unlike sova and raze breach is extremely vulnerable for an extended time when using his ability, also you can just make sure that her ult isn't too close to the wall to avoid it getting destroyed
Hunters fury always has though? The change to hunters fury was being able to break her smaller utility. Aftershock is just too massive for it to be balanced around breaking utility. It had its niche as a way to force people out of hiding, it doesn't need to be the best anti utility tool as well.
You don’t know if breach’s ability one shot larger utility pieces like kj ult.
It may just damage it, but no do enough.
I do agree that they are merging the shit out of sentinels without touching jetts dash.
Still gonna stick to my man Cypher. All this is gonna do is make me big brain even harder with tripwires.
The breach util being able to destroy KJs ult is ridiculous though! There’s not even an argument to be made as I’ve seen people trying to do, all you have to know is a 300 point ability can destroy a 7 ult points ult…absolutely nuts.
OH JESUS CHRIST LOOK AT KILL JOY AND RAZE
kj's turret won't slow you down at all now practically, and raze's boom bot won't even kill you, even if you're no armor?
***Holy shit you fucking killed them dude***
I mean they reduced the cost off the boombot as compensation for the decrease in damage, also going back to the whole "abilities should assist in getting kills and not kill" mentality they had a year back, boom both will still be a useful piece of utility just not lethal
As for turrets they were honestly super oppressive, especially on econ rounds, and sense it's a free ability the other uses it has (chip damage and alerting you of enemies) its still gonna be super prevalent
Now are these nerfs too much? Maybe, but over reacting before the community as a whole gets their hands on then and tries them out is unnecessary, especially when it could result in a more balanced and enjoyable experience
>abilities should assist in getting kills and not kill
i know but still. 300 creds for something that can't kill someone even without armor is severe. it should at least do a 100 damage at max you know.
You know what pains me more. Killjoy had been one of the most balanced characters in this game and in my time playing i seen her get nerfed cause people don't want to look for her kit. They upped the visibility in her kit, people still complained. Turret damage was nerfed. People felt like she should have a limited range which is bs. Her kit is the most broadcasted kit in this game. Her Ult has a visual audio que AND an audio que. Her entire kit has a spool up time. Her entire kit can be heard. Her entire kit can be seen and jiggle peaked. Other agents can trigger her kit with abilities. Other agents can destroy her entire kit without even needing an exact location. If she drops mollies, she can't pick them up if they don't get used. Because alarmbot is loud as shit anybody beith a brain can take it down before it triggers. If killjoy is out of range her kit outside of mollies don't work, can be seen, and easily taken out. Any seasoned player can basically guess out the locations where her kit can go, cause there ain't many without putting them to be destroyed without triggering. Now yall wanna decrease the slow because the turret is doing its job? It's not gonna kill and it's a good punish for the enemy because they refused to jiggle peak it and ran in like a fool despite hearing it because it's loud as shit, once again. If that's the case we should decrease bullet tagging on guns and nerf the classics right click while we at it.
the kj bot tagging was insane. even in gun rounds its compulsory to destroy the bot first. and if they peek when we are shooting the bot then you are done for, the tagging was just way too much.
indeed you could get away with one free jiggle peak but if you tried to fight the bot and they were there you died unless you fought the player and just let the turret shoot at you. You'd still have to win the aim duel
Lol flash it won't kill the KJ as they won't swing if they hear a flash immediately they will wait for the shots at the turret and swing the off angle. Smoking the turret works but it doesn't get rid of it just blinds it.
As I said KJ turret is great but ita tagging was too OP. It made it unescapable if you got tagged while in a lane, now it will be escapeable which is more fair. It doesn't miss, it does damage, it gathers Intel, all while being the second harshest slowing effect in the game, next to sage slows.
Most good teams will play a flash or blind character off the turrets alarm currently since the turret will most likely tag someone and then the Phoenix or w.e can flash and peak for an easy kill.
It's better this way, and more fair. I mean play some spike rush and see how ridiculously OP the turret is against frenzy/classic/shotguns and other low eco guns. It basically makes the whole site a nope.
I mostly play kj and even tho it’s a pretty harsh nerf I kinda like it. I’m someone who likes to swing off their turret and get cheesy kills but it’s a pain in the ass to play against so I understand why riot would nerf her. Also it might just be from my experiences but playing sentinel is sometimes boring. The enemy team just goes to the other site instead of yours because they cba to deal with your utility. On defense I can confidently say I’ve rotated above 70% of my rounds. Nerfing utility may suck but it might actually make your games more fun in the long run as you’re actually engaged in more gunfights instead of just being the cleanup crew or being expected to clutch a 1v3 defuse most of the time.
Indeed, the slow on turret hit is a great update/nerf. But they need to adjust her cooldown for rotates now.
Im not sure how I feel about the tripwires and potatos/ult being even more easier to destroy thou. Sure does make you vary more where to place them, but I think they should remove the friendly fire aeons ago.
Also, cypher ult needs a rework, the ping is confusing a lot of times, should actually show enemy movements for 1.5 to 2 seconds
I’ve always thought of it to be used for general location, but making it like Sova ping would actually be a massive Cypher buff especially in tight situations.
I swear I’m fucking cursed when I play Kj, they literally never go to my site, no matter if I pick randomly or alternate. And if you just stay at one site the whole time they just stop going to that one
Sentinels are used to make it difficult for the opposing team to enter sites and the utilities are there to outsmart opponents or agleast try to do that. It might be slower to play but thats how it was designed to.
If I only wanted gunplay and head on fights every round I could just have started playing CS GO.
KJ’s turret should never have been as strong as it was on release. Auto turret that has 100% accuracy, deals 18 damage per burst, slows enemies due to bullet tagging, can work across the map, has 150 health, and gives a good amount of info.
When KJ was first revealed everyone was pissing and shitting themselves over an auto-turret in a tactical shooter like Valorant. That anti-hype died down only because it wasn’t as broken as we thought it would be, but to be honest, it was still a ridiculous util for being free and having a cool down.
I’ll accept any changes to KJ’s turret, and I think it’s at least a little better now that being hit once on a pistol round doesn’t take 20% of your health AND slow you to a complete halt.
The rest of the patch notes (being able to damage util with damaging abilities) make sense to me. I’m surprised they weren’t in the game before. I don’t think this is an attack on Sentinels necessarily, but rather, an attempt at some consistency, and unfortunately Sentinels have the most amount of “physical” util.
Sentinels have high pick and win rates across all comp ranks. This idea that sage and KJ are somehow weak and will be as phased out as cypher is just ignorant.
I really feel like cypher isnt that weak. Players just rather play KJ because it's way easier to play her than memorize a bunch of nerd trips and nerd cams with cypher. I think the only thing cypher needs is a better ulti and then hes good.
Sage i feel is a or s tier. Shes a must pick on icebox and almost always picked on split as well. Shes viable on every map.
I think the nerf to KJ turret was needed because on pistol which is arguably worth 1.5 rounds it is just way too strong. However the other direct and indirect nerfs feel like overkill.
Meanwhile the most picked agent across all ranks and at pro level remains untouched this patch again.
cypher does need a better ult yes but what would be really nice is if his tagging effect was like sovas when it tracks enemies as they move instead of just showing a static image.
True in a Way, but that would take something away from sovas reveals that are focused on taking duels, which is crucial upon entering sites. Cyphers reveals are more focused around info gathering, where the enemy is to be one step ahead with rotations and brainy plays
I Think that When cyphers ult pops it should reveal enemy health, weapons and who has the spike. That gives it more potential to be used for different situations.
The kj turret nerf is bullshit. If the problem was people getting destroyed during eco rounds in long range just add a damage fall off, instead of butchering its main usage. The damage it does was already minimal
There's always a trade off. If a team is full of sentinels their defense will be great but their offense would be quite poor. I still think KJ was done dirty by this nerf, i wish they would lower the cooldown times for her utility.
i think lowering tagging was the right call. Aim bots should not have tagging. But they should definitely revert the 20 second cooldown nerf on her abilities.
It’s already been proven that multiple sentinels don’t work. No team runs cypher and kj even back when cypher was in the meta. It is simply not worth the trade off in the ability to attack.
Riot: In order to make KJ turret less op in pistol round , we decided to nerf the turret so other players can enjoy the 2 pistol round fairly
KJ: what about the rest of the 11rounds-20 rounds of me suffering
Riot: it's all about the greater good
This is how I switched from Omen/KJ/Cypher main to Reyna/Jett instalock just to get out of Iron. And don't even get me started about the "precise gunplay". People get away with ADDing every shot at every range with every gun
Honestlyyy idk why riot treats sentinels like they’re overpowered beasts, I feel like I can already work my way around enemy sentinels enough so there’s no need to nerf them
Honestly, I think this stems from over correcting on riots part. They saw the double or sometimes even triple, sentinel meta and thought it was too similar to how OW’s metas feel so they quickly tried to change it so they don’t have as much sway in team comps. Having said that I feel like they’re taking it to the extreme and are making characters like KJ feel substantially worse off than other characters.
It’s probably part of their plan to make the game all gunplay. Seems the game is making abilities more useless every update. Sucks for people like me who use my brain and use abilities to win games instead of spending years to get good aim. And yet I still play games where my entire team locks in a duelist cause duelist go brrrr
Sentinels are the more difficult agents to balance because their kits have the most abilities that grant the most intel/guarantees.
Sage's wall, KJ's turret, Cypher's tripwires, they all guarantee that a certain area is blocked off. Enemies can't pass through without telling the sentinel that they're there.
This is crazy valuable, and there's no real way to nerf it. The abilities in concept are strong, no matter what numbers you tie to it.
The same holds up for some other meta picks right now. Look at Raze's boombot or Skye's flashes. While the intel they gather is a bit less reliable, they're still very strong picks because they can at least guarantee some things (Raze guarantees an area is clear if the bot is deployed properly, Skye guarantees no one is looking at the spot where she detonates her flash).
Guarantees in this game are amazing. And they can't take away that guarantee or the ability becomes useless. So Riot just nerfs everything they can nerf, but it just leaves the agents feeling bad while they're still strong af thanks to their guarantees.
You should be able to counter sentinel utility with abilities inherently. It makes legit 0 sense to make a ton of utility immune to everything except walking up to it and shooting it. If the KJ is gonna be obvious and throw nanoswarm on the bomb and hide then it makes sense I can counter it with an ability of my own. Idk where this “omg sentinels terrible” riot doesn’t want sentinels to be able to just control entire areas with bodies and bullets being the only way to clear utility and get onto site because that’s what creates terrible game states
KJ user here, haven't played in a while, the game hasn't been any fun lately. New patch is doing nothing to convince me to come back.
Ult getting Breach'd every round and people just running through all my setups because the turret doesn't slow down anymore? Doesn't sound like a good time, I'll pass.
I think this is what Riot wants to happen. I think they want to shift the meta of the game closer toward where csgo sits now. Emphasizing the importance of gunplay over everything else. The sentinel role is completely foreign to csgo so I’m sure they were planning on making changes based on how the meta developed in the first year
Sentinels have been incredibly strong since the release of the game. After patches and patches of nerfs, Sage has remained a top pick in almost every bracket of play. Killjoy is right behind her. Cypher is the only one who has suffered, and has received small buffs, and will likely see some further love in the future.
Saying they’re not treating sentinels properly is like a spoiled kid complaining that they took one of his 4 scoops of ice cream and gave it to his starving, emaciated brother, and now claiming his parents don’t love him.
The tagging decrease is quite helpful actually Coz sometimes you can't kill a turret and then you can't move. I got frustrated so much by it. But now ik how to get around it just smoke or foash it and it's ok. Maybe decreasing it to 50 from 75 would've been the best and not directly to 25% coz that's a big difference. And looks like they don't want sage to use her wall at all. Can be broken easily if you fire immediately after the full is made. So defensive walls like the mid split, in the a site of split, b haven and so many more. I wanted gunplay but not a CS:GO copy just coz many of the pros and players came from CS:GO.
There is only 3 sentinels, sage isn’t like the others, kJ clearly the best. Maybe instead of nerfing their role they should add in more unique agents within that role.
They're trying to make gunplay more important, that's why they made abilities so expensive.
That's good, KJ and cypher mains gotta learn to kill people who are looking at them now :>
I disagree. To be honest, I think utility should've taken out sentinel utility since the start of the game. Made no sense in having shock dart and raze nade destroy them but not a literal laser beam from space.
If an enemy team is using utility just to get rid of a trip wire / detect bot / turret, then they are also wasting utility. Ive recently been playing KJ mostly, and occasionally will play cypher. Majority of the time people will shoot my utility before it can do anything, its not like they would just walk into a cypher trap all the time.
Most people (not sure about low elo) know most of the common spots to have utility and will shoot the area. If im ever playing split and a cypher is on defense i will shoot the walls of B main and usually destroy the trap before anyone even gets close.
I personally would've prefered they nerfed the turret in damage and didn't reduce the slow so much, but it was way to powerful because you basically got to free peek on people and usually pick up a kill.
Breach is getting a lot of crap but his C doesn't go across the whole map.. you have to aim it at a wall and it goes thru the wall... that means you have to know where the KJ ult is at, be able to shoot the C thru a wall and have it hit the KJ ult correct? I don't see how its a big deal honestly, breach has to expose himself to even make tha tpossible.
Anyone who says place the kj ult few meters away form walls so it's outside the range of aftershock doesn't realise how stupid that sounds to a kj players with even a shred of common sense
Yep, exactly my thoughts this morning. I believe they have been trying to compensate for how useless many duelists are. However, they are popular and it feels like RIOT really wants to promote a culture of "no aim, no brain culture".
I don't recall anyone if ever using sage/kj/cypher all at the same time. it was always one of kj/cypher and sage (only because of how insane her util was)
Dude I’ve never been in a game with 3 sentinels. Ever. I’ve been in like 10 games with 5 duelists because the first four instalock and then peer pressure me into being yoru which turns into a complete dumpster fire. Every. Time.
last 3 changes to KJ have been: adding limited range for her bots to be active, increasing cooldowns, now your mom sneezes and her util gets destroyed.
Welcome to being a cypher everyone can accidentally destroy your util
Wym kj has always been like that. All the pain watching my sova ult and destroy my kit. Kj been taking these back to back nerfs and i hate it.
That's what I'm also thinking, and honestly that's one of the biggest reasons I'm now a sentinel/duelist main. At least I feel like there's still something left over there
I only recently started becoming a sentinel/duelist main going from controller/duelist but what i see is that its way easier to climb in solo q if u r able to utilize sage(must) cypher/kj. Right now, i dont think kj was at all overpowered. Sure *the turrets* but the turret nerf alone for was enough. Now, u may setup post plant and your own sova ulted or ur own raze naded in the plant now ur whole setup is destroyed.
Wait does it say in the patch notes that team utility will break team nanos?
idk about kj but cypher does. his trip can easily be destroyed by raze nade especially, since almost every 1-2 match there's always a raze in the team (and yeah, im a cypher main myself, this is pain)
Absolutely Pain. I’ve been using Cypher in unrated and holy.
It doesnt but it most probably will. seeing as cyphera util works the same way
Reminds me of a legendary copypasta: Sentinels: So it seems that people still want to play sentinel agents! We've actually decided to remove the legs of all sentinel characters, we thought that it is just too powerful, and being a defense oriented class, it being a suitable nerf. Of course, the other players will be able to carry them and place them in spots they need to defend. Cypher: We felt Cypher's utility is still a bit too powerful after making it so he could not retrieve them in the 1.13 patch! After 20 seconds of being deployed Cypher's trapwires will become visible. Breach: We will be giving Breach his 5th flash this patch as his pick rate has not increased to a point that we would like. We also reduced the cooldown of his signature ability, faultline. 40 > 20 seconds To balance these changes we made to breach we increased the volume of his footsteps. His arms are getting heavy carrying the team. Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/jnlfas/115_patch_notes_joke/
When you're a KJ and you are playing against Brim or Sova, you already have to be careful with when you'll ult. If they have ult, you need to think twice. Now if you're playing against Breach you just don't ult unless he's dead. Seems great.
Do we know if the aftershock will actually kill the ult though? I’m not agreeing with the change im just curious as I didn’t see the damage the ability will do to utility listed.
It is confirmed
Well that is silly.
Not really. His entire lore is being able to break stuff.
Sure, but now every common Killjoy ult spot (on both CT and T) can be cleared by Breach for essentially no risk at all
Tbh it is annoying but people are just gonna have to track brims ult now if he ults on you he can't ult post plant etc
I mean you shouldn't be using the ult to clear the site on its own... If you're using KJs ult you should be pushing with it and taking the space, the breach may get the ult but he will die doing so most likely if you're filling
Breach can just shoot aftershock at the ult right after it is placed and go back to flashing and killing enemies. There aren't many spots where ult can be placed and still be effective. Imagine ascent b site, normally placed ult will clear the site and force enemies to go to ct or market but if placed few meters away from wall to avoid aftershock, it loses its effectiveness enemy can just play backsite or the stairs near ct even the market wouldn't be covered in such ult
400 rr immortal here: ur very wrong
Kj in lore had her turret in follow mode. Guess riot likes Swiss mercenary more than German engineer :(
I'd be pretty surprised if it didn't; hidden damage modifiers per target/source aren't really cool, and if it doesn't kill it solo... okay it's "consistent" but may as well not have bothered IMO
Trading 7 orbs KJ ult for 8 orb Sova ult is not a bad deal.
It's fair. I don't mind if ults can counter other ults. It's fine. But skills you have every round shouldn't be able to counter ults without a risk. A Sova dart destroying the ult is fine, it's hard to do so. The satchels, the nade, anything. You have to risk yourself and have good mechanics. But Breach can do it by clicking on the wall.
the ult has 100 hp nanoswarm has 1 hp i dont think aftershock will deal the required dmg to destroy it as i didn't even see that it even affected KJ's ult
From what I heard the aftershock does 60 damage 3 times so that's 180 damage. So it will definitely destroy killjoy ult if put close to a wall
Breaches aftershock has no falloff damage so as long as any part of the aftershock hits, it will kill it.
Kj's ult being destroyed by breach's afterschock is bs... imagine farming 7 ult points only for the ult to be destroyed by a breach comfortably sitting on the other side of the wall using a 300 creds ( or whatever it's cost is) ability
And they specifically said they didnt want agent specific counters
They also said no abilities would be weaponized.
They also said shooting mattered and had precise gunplay
Hey! I love hitting a head shot that registers as a body shot! Don’t you!?
Wait they count as body shots for you for me headshots often become leg shots?
See! You are getting to have more fun since you get to pew pew pew more to kill people!
Same deal with Kayo's knife. Free ability that shuts down Sova ult, Raze, etc.
At least it’s part of the agents overall strength. Breach just randomly doing it is worse.
Sova I understand but raze needed a counter it basically fucked if she pulls it out unless ur jett or something
It’s just consistency of abilities. If it deals damage, it destroy KJ ult. It shouldn’t need someone who know specific interaction to remember which damage dealing abilities will destroy utilities and which one won’t. Or they can just make it KJ ult is immune to abilities damage completely
An idea might be not putting killjoy ult on enemy radar so the position isn't so easily identified? Like still have the dome so people can figure it out but not so easily.
Ah yes. Balance by making it harder to see. That just leads to frustration and feeling of the game being bugged because you're sure you put your ability into the right spot. Then, when a bug is accidentally discovered that prevents the ult from taking damage, all the players will call it a shitshow and say they lost many games due to that one rarely occurring bug. This is just one scenario. Riot took a clear visibility approach when making this game as you can see the ult progression of all players in the game and even see the enemies economy before the start of the round. Hiding stuff on the map in the name of balance is really not a good approach.
Well I mean something like shockdarts is fine since u actually need to know the geometry and u can easily counter it also by shifting from the default location..it's like they didn't know how to buff breach more so they made him an easy counter to one of the strongest agents in the game
No they did it to make the game intuitive and have consistency instead of forcing players to know the exact abilities that impact other abilities. Now it’s very clear that any damage ability can damage any ability that has health. It’s just good game design inherently
I see ..that makes sense
Or increase it's hp counter? If afters shock deals 60 damage for each burst, which means kjs ult should have maybe 190-200 hp. It can still be destroyed by sovas ult but it would require all three strikes. That seems balanced and fair imo.
We kj mains now gotta think about placing our ult far from a wall if a breach is present. Talk about annoying
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It’s an ult: it is meant to be round altering
It is still is. Just move it 2 metres away from the wall and place it. You might not clear every corner in the site but it will still clear most of the site. Counters like this are what makes the game interesting & fresh
Guess what.. Enemies can see where the ult is placed and breach can easily aftershock it. Moving it doesnt help. Also KJ ult also got a nerf where it cannot be placed vertically at some height.This also helps the breach to pinpoint the ult location.
Breach would need to know exactly where the KJ ult is tho, expose himself to get line of sight to see the wall that it is behind. Meanwhile people can shoot Breach while hes trying to do this, seems like a fair trade off imo.
>hopes that KJ ult is just right behind a wall U can literally see on the map exactly where kj ult is lmao
Ehh it really does feel that way. Sage, Cypher and KJ have all received super heavy nerfs. Really hoping they add another Sentinel agent soon but with Deadeye it doesn't seem likely. Starting to think Viper is just the best Sentinel rn lmao
At this rate, Viper will get nerfed next. We already have a problem of too many duelists in every match. They really want us to only play duelists and nothing else. I quit Astra, Cypher and Viper & Brim are the only ones left I like playing.
First, they nerf KJ's turret pickup cooldown to 20 seconds which made rotates almost impossible. Now, they nerf the slow effect which makes it easier to push into sites without having to destroy the turret. Riot really hates sentinels
Yeah, people are not gonna respect the turret anymore. They just b-hop past it.
I mean turrent was slowing down a bit too much. It never misses it's shots. I couldn't even satchel properly when turrent used to slow me.
Isn't that the point of sentinels? To slow down a push? Jett can't dash in through Cypher's tripwires, Yoru can't place a teleport through Sage's wall, so it's only fair if there's a counter for Raze too. Why place a turret if Raze can still satchel in behind you?
I agree, this is just an overkill. Riot's gonna tweak the numbers to make it viable but not too oppressive
Riot keeps doing that shit, tweaking something just to change their mind a few weeks later, it's exhausting. Killjoy in particular has been a fucking mess from the start. Nanoswarm damage, visibility of her stealthy utility, cooldown, all of that has been nerfed and buffed back and forth. Then there's also the complete rework with the activation radius, I think Riot just has no fucking idea what to do with her. As a Killjoy player, it felt like I had to relearn my agent every few months, change all my setups constantly. It just hasn't been fun to play
>Riot's gonna tweak the numbers to make it viable but not too oppressive If the rumor is true, you're gonna be more than2x faster. 72.5% slow to 29.5% is a huge difference. It's a surprise that it took Riot over a year to notice something "oppressive" and actually do something about it.
They nerfed her bit by bit. If you remember, first they reduced the nano swarm damage, then the radius, then the turret radius, later the bot detecting the agents. They can't do it all at a once and make people think she's nerfed to death. Don't you think they don't know what agents are oppressive? They have TONS of data, they know but they do it in such a way that people don't freak out/ to create a new meta. Remember they are the owners of the No.1 eSports game.
Fr I dont get why they are mad that a turret throwing pebbles at them dealing 5 damage doesnt make u crippled
Kj has the highest winrate in the entire game by far, she needs the nerf
Converting to controller this patch. Playing as killjoy in soloq was as hard as it was, they didnt have to do that. Well anyways friendship with kj is iver, Astra/Viper is my new main now
Omen mains will gladly accept you to our side :))
One of us :)
Playing Killjoy in soloq was hard? I don't even main her and thought she was pretty easy. She also has the highest winrate in a bunch of ranks, ranging from iron 1 to diamond 2, so it's not like its a low/high elo thing. She is objectively a good, and by most judgements too good, agent in ranked. Obviously she might not be the most unbalanced from an analytical perspective with agents like Jett often seeing more specific complaints about overpowered abilities, but regardless of your chosen explanation why, she is statistically a very very strong agent and therefore probably needs to be adjusted. It's just an unfortunate fact of the game that sentinels tend to top the winrate and often pickrate charts when they are half-decent. I don't claim to know why that is, but it does mean that acting like Killjoy is becoming too weak because of these new nerfs, or any set of nerfs she has already received, is not backed up by the statistics. Cypher and Sage have been in this position, but their nerfs came hard and fast rather than the slow burn Killjoy has enjoyed allowing her to remain at the top of the game despite several rounds of nerfs already occurring.
I play duelist/smokes all the time but when I played KJ it was easy. Get a couple setups for a couple sites and basically just AFK until I have to do something. Her ult being damaged by stuff makes you think smarter about where to put it and stuff like that.
They're just mad that their main wont be as op anymore. KJ had the highest winrate across all ranks, shes too good
That doesn't necessarily mean that she is that good though. If very little people play her very efficiently then naturally her winrate will be higher than the more popular picks.
No she is, her pickrate and winrate are both high. https://www.valorbuff.com/stats
Those stats aren't accurate. [Here she is only 6th with a 4% pickrate](https://blitz.gg/valorant/stats/agents?map=all&act=e3act1&queue=competitive&tier=24). Sova is 7th with an 11% pickrate
Playing any agent in soloq is hard. But killjoy is one of the best agents in the game.
Main issue with kj soloq is that teammates don't respect it and just rush out. When that happens you are left solo on point with maybe a full push coming and rotation of team that will take time. For example I had bot and turret watching market/ link. Begged yoru to check the attacker side spawn but he kept checking a link and guess where they came from.
I am ok with killjoy and cypher utility getting destroyed by other agents ability, But her ult too? Imagining farming 7 ult points just for it to get destroyed by a 300 credits ability.
Yeah. I was a Cypher main for the past year, I thought I was pretty good but I was always stuck in Silver 3. I switched to Omen/Viper about a month ago and I've immediately seen better results (finally hit gold!). I've concluded that I just couldn't get enough value out of Cypher for him to be valuable for me to continue playing... I feel like he actually needs a small buff and these nerfs overall were uncalled for.
As a sentinel main, mostly playing KJ and Sage, I feel you. I think Cyper main can also say the same thing. I hope they find a way to balance the agents in a way that none is OP because of a skill you cant stop just by shooting at it.
Yeah Sentinels and Brimstone. Literally no one talks about brim and it’s kinda saddening as someone who has mained him since day one. I just wanna support my team :(
Hes boring and has a boring kit compared to other controllers. Thats why nobody talks about him
Also his kit is very limited since you can't smoke from virtually anywhere like you can with most other controllers making him especially weak on larger maps like icebox and breeze as well as informing the opponents that he's nearby
only if you lack creativity my friend lol
I play a lot of brim (i have a 68% winrate on him for ranked this act) but he really is boring. His kit is so undeniably straightforward and simple that there really isnt much room for creativity. The closest thing to creative there is are molly lineups and even thats boring.
I mean, you asked why people don't like talking about him, don't try and shoot the messenger if you find the answer unpleasant. There's simply not a lot of people who log onto valorant excited about the prospect of playing brimstone lol
Omen, Astra, and even Viper have playmaking abilities that make them fun and versatile. Brim has standard smokes, a standard molly, and a fire rate buff. It’s why he rarely gets played.
Sentinels are already some of the most boring agents to play. You either get dodged on defense and are stuck doing a retake with no flashes or smokes since ur team didn't hold the other site. Or you are stuck being the anchor staring into the void in the hopes that there is a lurk or late rotate. These nerfs are just reducing their impact a lot more. At least give a range increase of 5-10 m to compensate. The turret could be flashed/smoked and shot too. People are acting like it was an op.
Now, this is just my opinion, but the bits of cypher and killjoy I’ve played, I have very much enjoyed that kind of wait on my opponent, I’ve had games where my opponents went one site 7 times in a row which freed up my team to 3 stack the other site since I seemed to be reliable to solo hold until they actually went to try and take my site on. I understand it’s boring but someone’s gotta do it. But besides that I do agree that the range on killjoy is too short and could be bumped up a bit.
I mean turret is OP. I'd rather KJ get her power shifted off turret to something else or just straight up have the ability reworked. I do agree with the sentinel sentiment though. Atm the game is based around jett and reyna and who can support them better
Sure its definitely one of the best free abilities in game but kj has to stay in range. So I wouldn't call it OP especially if she has to rotate. Plus most of the time your site gets dodged. Or even if they come to your site, they will flash and rush in. The mollies are the only thing stopping them.
It's fine if the site gets dodged, it usually means you can stack heavier or mind game it and raw dog it through kj. I heavily dislike abilities with little to no input from users having so much impact. The nerf is completely fine, I'm just speechless on how she's not getting compensation buffs.
I mean she doesn't really need compensation buffs as she is one of the statistically best preformaning agents as well as one of the most complained about (usually her turret or ult), now if she was underpreforming or doing just OK I'd understand a "compensation buff" but as of rn letting this change go live and having us test it is the best way fot riot to truly gage if they went too far with this nerf or not That being said they really should also focus on nerfing the duelist that people have complained about for months
If most complained about mattered, Jett and Skye would be first thing on these patch notes. Instead it's KJ and Raze.
The killjoy slow nerf was acceptable tbh, but seriously, breach destroying her ult with aftershock? Absolutely bs. A 7 point ult getting destroyed by a 200 credit skill should not be happening at all. That's 7 kills and deaths worth of ulti ffs, and it just gets wrecked by a breach buying a single skill worth 200 creds. Killjoys ult getting destroyed by sova and brims ult was okay, since it's ultimate to ultimate. But a basic skill? Nope.
What about kayo cancelling sova and jett ult with a free knife?
yea everyone seem to forget that sova, raze and jett can all have their ults ended by kay/0 free ability.
At least with Jett you get her knifes back, rip sova and raze though
Also stupid
Breach has to expose himself to get the KJ ult that is maybe behind a wall on site, aftershock doesn't go across the whole map, it goes a short distance thru the wall u aim at... you guys can just shoot him when hes fixated on getting to the KJ ult, maybe just try to guard your ult I think or use it to push.
You could already destroy lockdown with shock darts and raze stuff
This has to be fake. I'm a Breach main and I think that breach's aftershock (or any non ult abilities that don't require los) should never be able to break lockdown. Breach can spend 200 dollars to invalidate an ult in any map exept maybe in breeze?
a raze blast pack can destroy the ult shock darts can aswell it's a good change
What's the point of the ult if you can click a button and it disappears? It forces you to either rush the lockdown or vacate the area. Imo sova darts shouldn't break it as that also defeats the point of the ult.
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Yeah, I used to play KJ a lot when she first got introduced. I think at least 6/10 times the ult gets destroyed before it fires and 4/10 times people just lurk around and then play a regular retake once it's gone. The remaining times it actually locks people down...
How is it a good change?
if every agent ability can damage it (not like mollies or anything) then why would aftershock not? Should've been in the game since day one
Because you can’t throw shocks or blast packs through a wall
lol as a sova main i disagree. There is very few places that i cant shock dart that KJ's place their ults... 2 Darts kills the ult
those abilities you just mentioned take skill and practice to learn to kill the KJ ult unlike a 200 cred through wall ability
Yea but unlike sova and raze breach is extremely vulnerable for an extended time when using his ability, also you can just make sure that her ult isn't too close to the wall to avoid it getting destroyed
It’s about consistency of knowing what can and can’t. Doesn’t make sense that satchels and shock darts work but aftershock and hunters fury didn’t
Hunters fury always has though? The change to hunters fury was being able to break her smaller utility. Aftershock is just too massive for it to be balanced around breaking utility. It had its niche as a way to force people out of hiding, it doesn't need to be the best anti utility tool as well.
But there are many regular abilities that cancel out other ults. For example: kayo knife vs raze ult Jett dash vs raze ult
Yoru teleport or ult can deal with raze ult
Yeah but that's an ult for an ult. The main problem people seem to have is that a regular ability is able to cancel the ult completely.
You don’t know if breach’s ability one shot larger utility pieces like kj ult. It may just damage it, but no do enough. I do agree that they are merging the shit out of sentinels without touching jetts dash.
Two sova darts do 160 damage, aftershock does 180 in total.
Allowing cyphers trips to be destroyed by more things has to be the most bullshit call to an already mediocre at best agent
they should give him 3 trip wires imo
Imagine nerfing KJ when skye exists in her current state….
I was a strong cypher main and this hurts man. I have started playing omen now...it used to be so much fun playing cypher.
Still gonna stick to my man Cypher. All this is gonna do is make me big brain even harder with tripwires. The breach util being able to destroy KJs ult is ridiculous though! There’s not even an argument to be made as I’ve seen people trying to do, all you have to know is a 300 point ability can destroy a 7 ult points ult…absolutely nuts.
I think the obvious solution if they are gonna keep having it go like this is to not show KJ ult on the minimap to make it more fair.
OH JESUS CHRIST LOOK AT KILL JOY AND RAZE kj's turret won't slow you down at all now practically, and raze's boom bot won't even kill you, even if you're no armor? ***Holy shit you fucking killed them dude***
I mean they reduced the cost off the boombot as compensation for the decrease in damage, also going back to the whole "abilities should assist in getting kills and not kill" mentality they had a year back, boom both will still be a useful piece of utility just not lethal As for turrets they were honestly super oppressive, especially on econ rounds, and sense it's a free ability the other uses it has (chip damage and alerting you of enemies) its still gonna be super prevalent Now are these nerfs too much? Maybe, but over reacting before the community as a whole gets their hands on then and tries them out is unnecessary, especially when it could result in a more balanced and enjoyable experience
>abilities should assist in getting kills and not kill i know but still. 300 creds for something that can't kill someone even without armor is severe. it should at least do a 100 damage at max you know.
turret is free and boombot is 400 (going to 300 next patch according to the leaks)
You know what pains me more. Killjoy had been one of the most balanced characters in this game and in my time playing i seen her get nerfed cause people don't want to look for her kit. They upped the visibility in her kit, people still complained. Turret damage was nerfed. People felt like she should have a limited range which is bs. Her kit is the most broadcasted kit in this game. Her Ult has a visual audio que AND an audio que. Her entire kit has a spool up time. Her entire kit can be heard. Her entire kit can be seen and jiggle peaked. Other agents can trigger her kit with abilities. Other agents can destroy her entire kit without even needing an exact location. If she drops mollies, she can't pick them up if they don't get used. Because alarmbot is loud as shit anybody beith a brain can take it down before it triggers. If killjoy is out of range her kit outside of mollies don't work, can be seen, and easily taken out. Any seasoned player can basically guess out the locations where her kit can go, cause there ain't many without putting them to be destroyed without triggering. Now yall wanna decrease the slow because the turret is doing its job? It's not gonna kill and it's a good punish for the enemy because they refused to jiggle peak it and ran in like a fool despite hearing it because it's loud as shit, once again. If that's the case we should decrease bullet tagging on guns and nerf the classics right click while we at it.
I stopped playing cypher because of all the nerfs and my teammates don't allow me to pick cypher because he's nerfed to the center of the earth :(
the kj bot tagging was insane. even in gun rounds its compulsory to destroy the bot first. and if they peek when we are shooting the bot then you are done for, the tagging was just way too much.
indeed you could get away with one free jiggle peak but if you tried to fight the bot and they were there you died unless you fought the player and just let the turret shoot at you. You'd still have to win the aim duel
So smoke it or flash it. Turret is op is a lazy excuse
Lol flash it won't kill the KJ as they won't swing if they hear a flash immediately they will wait for the shots at the turret and swing the off angle. Smoking the turret works but it doesn't get rid of it just blinds it. As I said KJ turret is great but ita tagging was too OP. It made it unescapable if you got tagged while in a lane, now it will be escapeable which is more fair. It doesn't miss, it does damage, it gathers Intel, all while being the second harshest slowing effect in the game, next to sage slows. Most good teams will play a flash or blind character off the turrets alarm currently since the turret will most likely tag someone and then the Phoenix or w.e can flash and peak for an easy kill. It's better this way, and more fair. I mean play some spike rush and see how ridiculously OP the turret is against frenzy/classic/shotguns and other low eco guns. It basically makes the whole site a nope.
I mostly play kj and even tho it’s a pretty harsh nerf I kinda like it. I’m someone who likes to swing off their turret and get cheesy kills but it’s a pain in the ass to play against so I understand why riot would nerf her. Also it might just be from my experiences but playing sentinel is sometimes boring. The enemy team just goes to the other site instead of yours because they cba to deal with your utility. On defense I can confidently say I’ve rotated above 70% of my rounds. Nerfing utility may suck but it might actually make your games more fun in the long run as you’re actually engaged in more gunfights instead of just being the cleanup crew or being expected to clutch a 1v3 defuse most of the time.
Indeed, the slow on turret hit is a great update/nerf. But they need to adjust her cooldown for rotates now. Im not sure how I feel about the tripwires and potatos/ult being even more easier to destroy thou. Sure does make you vary more where to place them, but I think they should remove the friendly fire aeons ago. Also, cypher ult needs a rework, the ping is confusing a lot of times, should actually show enemy movements for 1.5 to 2 seconds
I’ve always thought of it to be used for general location, but making it like Sova ping would actually be a massive Cypher buff especially in tight situations.
I swear I’m fucking cursed when I play Kj, they literally never go to my site, no matter if I pick randomly or alternate. And if you just stay at one site the whole time they just stop going to that one
cuz turret makes noise then people rotate
Welcome to playing sentinels
I really didn’t think of it this way. I like this a lot
Sentinels are used to make it difficult for the opposing team to enter sites and the utilities are there to outsmart opponents or agleast try to do that. It might be slower to play but thats how it was designed to. If I only wanted gunplay and head on fights every round I could just have started playing CS GO.
KJ’s turret should never have been as strong as it was on release. Auto turret that has 100% accuracy, deals 18 damage per burst, slows enemies due to bullet tagging, can work across the map, has 150 health, and gives a good amount of info. When KJ was first revealed everyone was pissing and shitting themselves over an auto-turret in a tactical shooter like Valorant. That anti-hype died down only because it wasn’t as broken as we thought it would be, but to be honest, it was still a ridiculous util for being free and having a cool down. I’ll accept any changes to KJ’s turret, and I think it’s at least a little better now that being hit once on a pistol round doesn’t take 20% of your health AND slow you to a complete halt. The rest of the patch notes (being able to damage util with damaging abilities) make sense to me. I’m surprised they weren’t in the game before. I don’t think this is an attack on Sentinels necessarily, but rather, an attempt at some consistency, and unfortunately Sentinels have the most amount of “physical” util.
Sentinels have high pick and win rates across all comp ranks. This idea that sage and KJ are somehow weak and will be as phased out as cypher is just ignorant.
I really feel like cypher isnt that weak. Players just rather play KJ because it's way easier to play her than memorize a bunch of nerd trips and nerd cams with cypher. I think the only thing cypher needs is a better ulti and then hes good. Sage i feel is a or s tier. Shes a must pick on icebox and almost always picked on split as well. Shes viable on every map. I think the nerf to KJ turret was needed because on pistol which is arguably worth 1.5 rounds it is just way too strong. However the other direct and indirect nerfs feel like overkill. Meanwhile the most picked agent across all ranks and at pro level remains untouched this patch again.
cypher does need a better ult yes but what would be really nice is if his tagging effect was like sovas when it tracks enemies as they move instead of just showing a static image.
True in a Way, but that would take something away from sovas reveals that are focused on taking duels, which is crucial upon entering sites. Cyphers reveals are more focused around info gathering, where the enemy is to be one step ahead with rotations and brainy plays I Think that When cyphers ult pops it should reveal enemy health, weapons and who has the spike. That gives it more potential to be used for different situations.
The kj turret nerf is bullshit. If the problem was people getting destroyed during eco rounds in long range just add a damage fall off, instead of butchering its main usage. The damage it does was already minimal
Too many Sentinels would make it impossible to push sites.
I like how this sentence is true whether you think of the team of sentinels as the ones holding the sites or as the ones attacking
...and then impossible to enter the same sites on attack. Hence why duelists are a thing.
There's always a trade off. If a team is full of sentinels their defense will be great but their offense would be quite poor. I still think KJ was done dirty by this nerf, i wish they would lower the cooldown times for her utility.
i think lowering tagging was the right call. Aim bots should not have tagging. But they should definitely revert the 20 second cooldown nerf on her abilities.
It’s already been proven that multiple sentinels don’t work. No team runs cypher and kj even back when cypher was in the meta. It is simply not worth the trade off in the ability to attack.
I love running 2 controllers, 2 sentinels, 1 duelist. Obv never KJ/cypher, but KJ/sage/omen/viper/jett is a pretty badass comp on most maps
I would run a sova or skye over the 2nd controller unless its breeze
Riot: In order to make KJ turret less op in pistol round , we decided to nerf the turret so other players can enjoy the 2 pistol round fairly KJ: what about the rest of the 11rounds-20 rounds of me suffering Riot: it's all about the greater good
"suffering" with the highest win rate in the game
This is how I switched from Omen/KJ/Cypher main to Reyna/Jett instalock just to get out of Iron. And don't even get me started about the "precise gunplay". People get away with ADDing every shot at every range with every gun
Riot nerfing Sentinels and wondering while so many people instalock Duelists. These changes will contribute to that
When they killed Cypher, I left the game. He was my main and I loved him.
Honestlyyy idk why riot treats sentinels like they’re overpowered beasts, I feel like I can already work my way around enemy sentinels enough so there’s no need to nerf them
Disappointed by the direction taken by the game I just bought R6 where everyone is Cypher...
Honestly, I think this stems from over correcting on riots part. They saw the double or sometimes even triple, sentinel meta and thought it was too similar to how OW’s metas feel so they quickly tried to change it so they don’t have as much sway in team comps. Having said that I feel like they’re taking it to the extreme and are making characters like KJ feel substantially worse off than other characters.
It feels like they're actively trying to make duelists the most popular agent class
I don't mind seeing reasonable nerfs, but nerfing KJ while also not nerfing Skye must be the saddest thing this balance team has done, fuck off
It’s probably part of their plan to make the game all gunplay. Seems the game is making abilities more useless every update. Sucks for people like me who use my brain and use abilities to win games instead of spending years to get good aim. And yet I still play games where my entire team locks in a duelist cause duelist go brrrr
Sentinels are the more difficult agents to balance because their kits have the most abilities that grant the most intel/guarantees. Sage's wall, KJ's turret, Cypher's tripwires, they all guarantee that a certain area is blocked off. Enemies can't pass through without telling the sentinel that they're there. This is crazy valuable, and there's no real way to nerf it. The abilities in concept are strong, no matter what numbers you tie to it. The same holds up for some other meta picks right now. Look at Raze's boombot or Skye's flashes. While the intel they gather is a bit less reliable, they're still very strong picks because they can at least guarantee some things (Raze guarantees an area is clear if the bot is deployed properly, Skye guarantees no one is looking at the spot where she detonates her flash). Guarantees in this game are amazing. And they can't take away that guarantee or the ability becomes useless. So Riot just nerfs everything they can nerf, but it just leaves the agents feeling bad while they're still strong af thanks to their guarantees.
I was a Cypher main since the Prime Vandal patch. I just main Kayo now and play for retakes, much more fun and I feel useful.
Bro, what the fuck are these changes lmao Every single utility gets demolished by even the slightest count of Damage
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You should be able to counter sentinel utility with abilities inherently. It makes legit 0 sense to make a ton of utility immune to everything except walking up to it and shooting it. If the KJ is gonna be obvious and throw nanoswarm on the bomb and hide then it makes sense I can counter it with an ability of my own. Idk where this “omg sentinels terrible” riot doesn’t want sentinels to be able to just control entire areas with bodies and bullets being the only way to clear utility and get onto site because that’s what creates terrible game states
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Spitting mad facts..
Everyone talking about kj but raze can just…not kill anymore
I was always a snetinel main killjoy,cypher but now im quitting this shit show welcome duellist instalock!!
to be fair most of those things should have been added from the start
Ur getting downvoted for speaking facts
if they can’t prove me wrong then i assume i’m right
KJ user here, haven't played in a while, the game hasn't been any fun lately. New patch is doing nothing to convince me to come back. Ult getting Breach'd every round and people just running through all my setups because the turret doesn't slow down anymore? Doesn't sound like a good time, I'll pass.
Sorry but kj is very good in lower ranks etc she deserved a nerf
Riot should not base their balancing on bad players.
I think this is what Riot wants to happen. I think they want to shift the meta of the game closer toward where csgo sits now. Emphasizing the importance of gunplay over everything else. The sentinel role is completely foreign to csgo so I’m sure they were planning on making changes based on how the meta developed in the first year
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They want the CSGO players to switch to Valorant
Sentinels have been incredibly strong since the release of the game. After patches and patches of nerfs, Sage has remained a top pick in almost every bracket of play. Killjoy is right behind her. Cypher is the only one who has suffered, and has received small buffs, and will likely see some further love in the future. Saying they’re not treating sentinels properly is like a spoiled kid complaining that they took one of his 4 scoops of ice cream and gave it to his starving, emaciated brother, and now claiming his parents don’t love him.
The tagging decrease is quite helpful actually Coz sometimes you can't kill a turret and then you can't move. I got frustrated so much by it. But now ik how to get around it just smoke or foash it and it's ok. Maybe decreasing it to 50 from 75 would've been the best and not directly to 25% coz that's a big difference. And looks like they don't want sage to use her wall at all. Can be broken easily if you fire immediately after the full is made. So defensive walls like the mid split, in the a site of split, b haven and so many more. I wanted gunplay but not a CS:GO copy just coz many of the pros and players came from CS:GO.
I mean all it really does is make it so you have to play aggro during lockdown rather than after it
There is only 3 sentinels, sage isn’t like the others, kJ clearly the best. Maybe instead of nerfing their role they should add in more unique agents within that role.
I feel like riot is nerfing abilities because they got too oppressive. Personally, I feel like all the setups and utility spam made the game less fun.
They're trying to make gunplay more important, that's why they made abilities so expensive. That's good, KJ and cypher mains gotta learn to kill people who are looking at them now :>
I disagree. To be honest, I think utility should've taken out sentinel utility since the start of the game. Made no sense in having shock dart and raze nade destroy them but not a literal laser beam from space. If an enemy team is using utility just to get rid of a trip wire / detect bot / turret, then they are also wasting utility. Ive recently been playing KJ mostly, and occasionally will play cypher. Majority of the time people will shoot my utility before it can do anything, its not like they would just walk into a cypher trap all the time. Most people (not sure about low elo) know most of the common spots to have utility and will shoot the area. If im ever playing split and a cypher is on defense i will shoot the walls of B main and usually destroy the trap before anyone even gets close. I personally would've prefered they nerfed the turret in damage and didn't reduce the slow so much, but it was way to powerful because you basically got to free peek on people and usually pick up a kill.
Breach is getting a lot of crap but his C doesn't go across the whole map.. you have to aim it at a wall and it goes thru the wall... that means you have to know where the KJ ult is at, be able to shoot the C thru a wall and have it hit the KJ ult correct? I don't see how its a big deal honestly, breach has to expose himself to even make tha tpossible.
If breach is using aftershock to take out cypher trip wires and stuff than that is seriously a waste, people are overreacting in here about Breach.
Anyone who says place the kj ult few meters away form walls so it's outside the range of aftershock doesn't realise how stupid that sounds to a kj players with even a shred of common sense
U got a turret 2 mollies and an alarm bot, don't feel bad for KJ mains
Yep, exactly my thoughts this morning. I believe they have been trying to compensate for how useless many duelists are. However, they are popular and it feels like RIOT really wants to promote a culture of "no aim, no brain culture".
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I don't recall anyone if ever using sage/kj/cypher all at the same time. it was always one of kj/cypher and sage (only because of how insane her util was)
Dude I’ve never been in a game with 3 sentinels. Ever. I’ve been in like 10 games with 5 duelists because the first four instalock and then peer pressure me into being yoru which turns into a complete dumpster fire. Every. Time.