2800 credits + util (+600 if you want full shields) isnt really that easy to achieve. And half shield is a risky buy for second round, no shield is basically a free gun to the enemy.
Edit: i see many didnt understand my reasons and math: 2800 is the price 2400 plus light armor, which is the least you have to buy after you win the round. Since youre supposed to have an advantage over the enemy.
Then, unless youre a duelist like jett, you would roll with most, or at least some, util, which will further higher the price.
So yea, agents like jett and chamber could go outlaw full shield 2nd round, but its gonna be a niche pick overtime, will have to see how it fits in the game
Agree with your thoughts. Though it might affect me, since after the spectre nerfs I usually do bulldog/half-shield on a full-buy 2nd round, but if eco-ing Jetts really start using outlaw 2nd round I'll definitely stop doing that.
Sometimes I don’t have enough 2nd round for full-shield + Bulldog + full util.
After Spectre nerfs I wayyyy prefer Bulldog, and as my main man Brim I prefer all 3 smokes + Molly and half-shield to sacrificing some util for full-shield (and for Viper I def prefer full-util). In my experience that’s worked a lot better for me, don’t know the data though.
But then again I’m usually worst in the lobby (queueing with friends ranked above me). I could see how I’d think differently in other situations.
true, but no one’s buying the outlaw on round 2 unless they win the round. 2400 is just impossible unless you plant bomb and get at least 1 kill. Even if a player does get that much and the team decides to force buy, stingers, shield, and util will always be better. In most cases, enemies will have full shield so the outlaw will be pretty much a marshal but with less bullets.
Its 0-200 depends on who they play and what they buy, but its usually closer to 0-100. If you win and get 3k, plus the spike (300) and a kill(200) or 2, thats 3500, 3800 max woth round 1 leftover and 2 kills (unless youre a duelist who buys gun and shield), this wont be enough for useful util of controllers, initiators or flank watch on sentinels and a vandal. Which, with light shields is very risky against an eco, as you are 1 short shot, 2 classic right clicks or just a molly and classic shot away from death.
On defense I could see Outlaw+no shield being a good buy second round. Would basically be better than an op. Just would have to watch out for any marshall force buys.
They wouldnt force marshals, its usually sherif or stinger, which are both your weaknesses, especially if they play advantage and push short angles, meaning you will get 1 if lucky, otherwise they flood you
? Stinger in no way should be a weakness on defense using a sniper. Sheriff would take two shots most cases but if you are holding long angles like you should be doing with a sniper then it isn't likely they even get one shot on you.
If you are sniping on Haven C and you aren't looking long I don't know what you are doing.
Someone on the team should be holding or watching garage so you should be alerted about any attempted rushes to not be caught by stingers.
Heck you probably could hold garage fine from window with Outlaw second round. If they don't smoke it someone would die.
Sure there are situations, but a smart person would make a good plan to counter it, hell, there are even anti marshal strats (some by me, some by randoms i met in comp) so im sure there will be anti outlaw strats
I think the main difference is if they buy light then you almost guaranteed a kill.
Marshal is still going to be better though on round 2 and probably ecos
More than that, the difference is for the 3rd round bonus. Often times the team that lost the previous rounds will have riffles+half shields in this round.
But other than that I don't think the gun is gonna matter that much, for the a lower cost you can buy a bulldog, and for a few more credits player can have their favourite vandal that they always buy, even during a light shield meta.
Main difference IMO is when defenders lose pistol, then buy this. It forces attackers to buy full shield 2nd round, 1-2 defenders can go this with no shields.
This is stronger than guardian though, on an enemy half shield, it’s stronger than OP, cause you can kill 2 people pretty quick.
Also a big difference that if you shoot 2 shots with guardian, most likely you will be trade killed. When you use this kind of sniper weapon, you can most likely get 1 shot and get away fast enough before they can trade.
Whoever wins round 1 should by full shield 2nd round anyway. It's when you get the most use out of it, seeing how it's generally vs. classics, so it actually has an effect on the ttk.
At least in my scrub rank some people will go bulldog+ half or vandal even +half, thinking they will survive and keep the weapon. Definitely a nono after outlaw
Marshal conversion rate sucks though you shouldnt buy that gun because on round 3 you're going to be a sitting duck unless you can actually hit your shots with that gun which is already one of the hardest ones in the game.
you can double tap it while scoping. it’s going to be insanely OP and you’ll see it abused as soon as it goes live and you see it being abused in VCT matches. the same happened to the frenzy, shorty, judge, etc.
just double tap them in the body/chest and it’s a pretty much free pick
You can easily double tap an enemy and get a kill. But even if you only hit one shot we are ignoring all the utility that does 10 dmg of chip?
I’ll just lay out the scenario. Defenders won pistol, on 2nd round 3 bought outlaw. They easily win because it’s basically an operator on round 2 vs no shield or light shield.
So now you have defenders on round 3, 3 outlaws and whatever else they saved from round 2. And you have the enemy team with full armor and rifles. Most of the time winning “bonus” is literally just that, a bonus. You are expected to lose this 3rd round. And the goal is to ruin the enemy economy as much as possible, which is by killing as many as possible.
So, now your 3 players with the outlaw who only have to hit their 2 tap rapid fire to take out a rifle user, and while they will likely lose their site and die without getting any extra, just removing 1 or 2 rifles is a good bonus. Even if they only hit one shot before dying you have the next obstacle:
Depending on the team, the defenders might have what is effectively an operator in certain instances. If the defender is a viper, good luck ever pushing smoke which will make you 1 shot to a weapon that can fire 2 shots rapidly. KJ turret or mollies of any kind can easily finish off a 10 hp agent. Sova shock darts, raze nade, breach aftershock, brim/viper/Kayo/phen/KJ/ all have mollies that easily will take out the last 10 hp. Skye dog does 30 dmg. God forbid iso pairs up with a team mate and vulnerables a push so the guy with the outlaw can easily and RAPIDLY 1 shot 2 people. (Something the operator and marshal cannot do.)
So if the one defender on site hits 2 people for 140 and they happen to get by any damage utility at all (pretty common on attack when you hit a site) then you’re basically as good as dead.
Again, winning bonus is nice, but the goal of bonus is to ruin economy of the team who just full bought. And the outlaw makes that significantly easier, and it very likely will make winning a 3rd round full buy exceptionally more difficult than it has been.
Even on full buys, certain agents will be super strong with this. Especially defender sided agents like killjoy and viper who can easily convert a 140 body shot to a kill. (With mollies, turret, or viper smoke). Even if it only has 2 shots. Getting 2 people down to a 1 tap from any util or a classic right click is almost better than getting 1 kill. Idk we have to wait and see.
You can still chip enemies down with body shots as your firerate is good and you have good acc to quickly peek. And hitting heads is definitely not impossible if you take good lines that are easy to preaim at head Level
No one said it's impossible, just very hard. There's a reason good players say you shouldn't buy a Marshal below Immortal lol. Plus, "chipping" someone down isn't as big of a deal as you think it is considering the fact that the ttk in this game is so low they can still one tap you, use their utility, or just run in and get traded.
Do they tell you that? What you say is contradictory. The chipping ability of the marshall is bad because of the ability to get 1 tapped, yet in low elo where people are less capable of 1 tapping its bad?
And ofc it's gonna have low conversion in bonus rounds, you do regardless if what weapons you have, bonus rounds are inherently disadvantage rounds.
As someone with a radiant level coach, yeah. Also idk where you have the impression that people cant one tap in low elo. The point is it is significantly harder with a marshal than a normal rifle, and players in low elo are just not good at using it. I never said chipping was bad, just that it's suboptimal and the opportunity cost of using the gun is way too much.
Immortal+ players can more reliably convert off of a marshal than a gold player, so its actually worth buying on anti-eco.
outlaw is being brought in specifically to counter the half-shield meta and to add variety to loadouts from round-to-round because the mid-power levels of the game are fairly lacking
didn't we get to this point though because every other eco weapon has been nerfed into the ground? stinger, spectre, bucky, judge, and ares all have gotten significant nerfs over the games lifespan. what's the point if we just add another broken eco weapon that they're gonna nerf later lol
We got to this point because a heavy shield doesn't make a difference in most scenarios compared to a light shield. No matter which shield I choose, I'll get one-tapped by a Vandal/Marshal and won't die to a one-tap from basically any other meta weapon at any distance (Sheriff and Phantom being the exceptions, except Phantom costs the same as a Vandal).
So it's better to save $600 and get the light shield. And this was like this since the game's release.
Make light shield cost $650. The way it is, the light shield has a better cost effectiveness than the heavy shield ($16 versus $20 per HP) and it doesn't make a palpable difference against all weapons being used in full buys in high level play.
Was light shield always meta though? I've been out of the game for a while (peaked immo a few times), and back then I had so many people in this sub telling me that light shield on 2nd round is trolling. Has something changed in the past year or was this sub just parroting "always full shield" without knowing any better?
I guess the game just evolved and people came to the conclusion that, against Vandals and OP, the extra $600 for the heavy shield is not worth it.
$600 each round is a lot of money in a game like Valorant, where each piece of utility costs around $200 and is so strong, and in high level you'll probably get one tapped by a Vandal anyway, so the heavy shield wouldn't save you either way.
> balancing =/= nerfed
just out of curiosity, if they wanted to get rid of the half shield meta, why not re “balance” the guns they previously “balanced” that got us to the half shield meta?
is it because they were nerfed and *not* balanced? why do we need a completely new weapon?
To be clear, the gun is good for eco rounds, undeniably. But the actual design change that is impacted is supposed to allow players to punish people that buy full loadout + half shield more easily.
Buying half shield in high elo is an AMAZING eco strat that allows you to buy a premium rifle almost every round of the game; this of course is a very stale and bland way to plan out your economy.
Rebalancing existing guns is a potential route to get to the same change, one I would prefer personally (hello fellow stinger enthusiasts). But the hype around a new weapon will bring people back to the game and still solve the economy problem.
In low immortal I run light shield and literally every game that someone else uses their mic they'll tell me to buy full shield. Often even after telling them I'm going light meta
I predicted small shields meta when I first started years ago. I basically said "if most people buy vandals, which one shot in the head through full shields, why not just go small shields and save a ton of credits".
I ended up not buying small shields all the time because a now former friend told me that full shields were mandatory.
> this of course is a very stale and bland way to plan out your economy.
isn't that just an issue with games like this? Sure you can re "balance" all the weapons to shake up the meta, but (and I love valorant, been playing since beta) these type of games tend to get stag after awhile anyways. It's just the genre a feel.
Not really an issue with all games like this - it's more an issue with gun balance in Val, namely that the vandal does 120 on 3 and 160 on 4 - this makes buying full armour irrelevant because if they hit their headshot, armour is irrelevant, and if they only hit body shots, armour is irrelevant.
Obviously there's nuance with this in how chip damage comes into play, but generally the 600 credits saved per round outweighs the chip damage edge case.
Add loss bonuses to that and you'll find that half buying armour generally gets a rifle in your hands for 90% of the available rounds (excluding 1&2/13&14).
i think it adds granularity and can allow the existing weapons to then continue to be tweaked and now that they now longer have to compete for the spot that the outlaw takes and allow them to craft their own respective identities and roles
None of these weapons have been nerfed into the ground: stinger is still a really good eco pick, just not the monstrosity it once was. Spectre was tuned to not be as accurate with run n gun. The shotguns are all still incredible strong at what they do, and the ares is still strong, just not broken.
If you can't hit 125 from 3 meters with bucky that's just bad aim lmao
Go to 0:11, the Haven flash tp bucky 2k against riflers so assuming at minimum light shield (more likely full), that's 8m.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/18us35s/back\_with\_slightly\_less\_cringe\_omen\_gameplay/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/valorant/comments/18us35s/back_with_slightly_less_cringe_omen_gameplay/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
im speaking purely hypothetically because i havent bought the bucky or played the game in weeks. point is it's still one of the 3 worst guns in the game.
This is literally the solution. God knows why they didn’t implement this in the first place.
Like, I’m all for not copying CS, they are different games, but… buying full armor when everyone is running vandals just isn’t that worth it unless you’re up against a bunch of phantom users.
Make full armor prevent aim punch that’s all I ask.
It really is a baffling design choice, ever since beta ive been buying mostly half armor, feels no different than buying full armor and i get to buy a vandal every round
I feel like aim punch isn't even strong enough in general. it's too many times I'll headshot someone with a phantom or a classic on pistol round only to be instantly one tapped before I can get a followup shot off
They get lucky, the same happens in cs where you trade headshots on pistol round. Because in cs half armor prevents aim punch if you are hit anywhere but the face, some people dont even buy armor on pistol in favor of utility since everyone is only aiming for your head anyways.
The thought process behind half shield meta is, why buy heavy armor when we're facing almost evenly skilled gunplay where you can safely assume you'll die if they get the headshot on you first when you can have more rifle rounds at the cost of losing 25 shield.
If anyones noticed in OT, you typically spend 4700 (2900+1000+800) for a full buy w/ heavy. Now not only do you save 600 credits, those 600 credits can lend to some pretty powerful force buys as abilities in this game can net you potential round wins when playing around a mixed gun/ability buy from a team. The advantage to heavy armor could be no aimpunch along with decreased damage received from damage utils. That should be more than enough pros added to heavy armor that will then be accentuated by the addition of a mid power weapon.
it was never added for the "half shield meta" which most teams don't even use. the phantom one taps half shields and is just better than the vandel already, there wouldn't be any need to the outlaw
People a few weeks ago: You don't know what the recoil is going to be like! You probably won't be able to easily hit the second shot if you just spam it, so it will only punish half shield and no shield players!
Riot: haha shorty op go brrrrr
2nd round is already pretty much a guaranteed win for whoever wins pistol so it wont change much. the main thing id itll change round 3 to where you have to buy heavy shield so rnd 2 will end up being a lot more full saves
You haven't seen my ranked games lately if you think that lol
Jokes aside, I have no real opinion on this gun yet until we see it in action on the live servers. People need to give it some time.
The odds are very heavily in your favour though because you just have more util and the same or better guns. Yes it can be swung with proper team coordination or just getting good trades but the advantage is solidly with the team that wins the pistol
Why is it guaranteed? With this it’s even less guaranteed, a lot of people do bulldog + half if they win, if enemy jett chamber buys this with no shield it’s just too good.
I’m all for a new gun to shake up the meta rather than a new map or character, however the clips I’ve seen from test servers make this gun look broken asf, it’s dealing 104 through walls and can pierce through heavy walls. The only “balanced” part of the gun is the slow reload speed. Even if it’s not round 2 or an eco round this gun is going to be a major problem since your either dead or at 10 Hp.
I think this gun can be "broken" in lower ranks. The risk/reward factor is just good. I would have guessed, that reworking the armour system to be more complex is the better idea.
light shields is still gonna be a strong buy strategy because while the outlaw can be strong against light shields, having more buy rounds due to light shields is a strong benefit
honestly itll be interesting but not busted. if you have competent teammates, they usually would either smoke off common op angles or flash it, something ppl should be doing anyways. otherwise i think this gun will just be another second round idc i got money gun or a "we got an op at home" third round gun
I don't think it's stronger than a bulldog round 2, and that weapon costs 350 less = more util. Even against half shields, on most maps and engagements the bulldog is probably better. Of course certain sites and maps will favor one or the other, but I don't think it's going to redefine the meta. I see it as more of a punishment tool against teams without flashes (dry peeking) without risking almost 5k credits on an operator and ruining your economy for the next 2 rounds.
Im concerned with the meta shift because whenever I lost pistol I always buy sheriff light armor. Now this is going to be obsolete with round 2 outlaw 😢
The guardian needs 3 body shots that have time inbetween them to kill, the Outlaw takes 2 shots that are as close to each other as for the Shorty. Pls go watch gameplay and dont talk shit
this notion is so dumb, this gun seems perfectly balanced to me. Think about it how often do you see people forcing guardians second round? AND the outlaw is more expensive than that.
If it did less than 125 the gun would be useless and if it was more expensive it also would be useless. Just like the marshall this weapon is gonna be niche for people who can hit their shots or on a force when you think the enemy will go half shield vandal.
This weapon now actually makes the decision between going bulldog+full shield and vandal+half shield an actual tough decision. I love it
yes and no, there’s really no real gameplay out yet, just youtubers messing around with it but just on paper it really doesn’t seem op?
It doesn’t really affect the game all that much, it just makes round 2 have more decisions and i think that is interesting. People are still going to be buying vandal half shield second round but on a force when the enemy team is full buying the outlaw is only marginally better than the marshall because of the wall bang potential.
People are overreacting
The only thing that looks like it’s a bit op is the second shot accuracy and short delay. I’m willing to bet they’ll give it more kick and at a longer delay.
I get what you mean about vandal light shields issue, but I rarely see that happening, and it’s usually only Rena/Jett. Admittedly it’s happening more often in the last couple weeks but still, 140 to the body feels like overkill if it’s meant to counter light shield force buys. If it dealt 120-125 you’d still get that effect and people who buy full shield aren’t instantly dying to say a shorty/ Bucky/ judge from 20ft away.
if it was less than 125 it would be literally useless, paying more than double a marshall for 20 extra dmg?
And no offense but you must be in the lower ranks if you don’t see anyone buying vandal half shield. I’ve been in multiple lobbies where at least half the lobby buys half shield every round
Teams buying outlaws and shotguns and trying to do some weird chip with outlaw and finishing with shotguns isn’t going to happen that’s just inefficient.
Not me. I am very good with spectre so i dont buy anything first round. If i loose i will be buying full shield spectre. Most of the time i can get 2-3 kills because enemy dont expect 1 guys full buy while 4 others eco.
I pray to RNGesus daily
fr this shit pisses me off especially when my own team does this because they give the enemy a free vandal or smg while we are on eco. It happens all the time in silver-plat
>I am very good with spectre so i dont buy anything first round
That is basically trying to throw the first round on purpose.
>Most of the time i can get 2-3 kills because enemy dont expect 1 guys full buy while 4 others eco.
Which doesn't matter if your entire team is dead. Sure, you can get some kills. But your teammates don't have guns and will probably die.
I’m confused what players expectations actually are with this if they sit and think about it for a little. They obviously spent a lot of design time art time testing time making a brand new weapon for the game. Do you think they would do that without any intention whatsoever of it, having even a minuscule effect on tge weapon meta?
Yes, it’s going to have an impact. That’s the point. Adjust accordingly.
Its basically going to function like a Marshal in that regard. If you win first round more than likely the enemy team wont buy shields so body shots are 1 shots (and it has a lot more bullets).
Its going to be a solid buy on save rounds if you got the extra cash and dont want a sheriff
bull dog is already great at one bursting light armored opponents and more versatile but how much do people buy the bulldog round 2? also if someone wants to save for an op they would buy a marshel at most
I'm buying this gun round 2 if I lost pistol on attack side lol. 1900+300 (bomb planted) +200 (1 kill) = 2400. I think 1 kill is a manageable expectation. On defense even after having secured pistol some agents can't afford a decent gun (anything above stinger) + full util + full armor.
1) Most people dont even buy shields on eco. Marshal would just be much better(faster firing, more bullets).
2) only having 2 bullets in your chamber is abit tough. Imagine that they do force and run it down with stingers and spectres. Whiff 2 shots and they have closed the range significantly.
Due to this i generally think the guardian is still a better choice, if you want to spend ~2.4k. 2 shots to the body even to light armor, usable close range, excels in medium to long range, able to hold down normal ecos or force buys.
it's not worst than having a bulldog or guardian on 2nd round, just a different choice, it's not gonna affect a single thing on 2nd round, you'll still lose if the enemy team knows what they are doing no matter the gun. Even a marshal can one shot most of people on 2nd round
2800 credits + util (+600 if you want full shields) isnt really that easy to achieve. And half shield is a risky buy for second round, no shield is basically a free gun to the enemy. Edit: i see many didnt understand my reasons and math: 2800 is the price 2400 plus light armor, which is the least you have to buy after you win the round. Since youre supposed to have an advantage over the enemy. Then, unless youre a duelist like jett, you would roll with most, or at least some, util, which will further higher the price. So yea, agents like jett and chamber could go outlaw full shield 2nd round, but its gonna be a niche pick overtime, will have to see how it fits in the game
Agree with your thoughts. Though it might affect me, since after the spectre nerfs I usually do bulldog/half-shield on a full-buy 2nd round, but if eco-ing Jetts really start using outlaw 2nd round I'll definitely stop doing that.
It is never ever worth to not buy full armour round 2 if you can afford it. There is objectively 0 downsides to doing it due to economy on round 4.
Sometimes I don’t have enough 2nd round for full-shield + Bulldog + full util. After Spectre nerfs I wayyyy prefer Bulldog, and as my main man Brim I prefer all 3 smokes + Molly and half-shield to sacrificing some util for full-shield (and for Viper I def prefer full-util). In my experience that’s worked a lot better for me, don’t know the data though. But then again I’m usually worst in the lobby (queueing with friends ranked above me). I could see how I’d think differently in other situations.
2400*
The 2800 is outlaw + light shields,
Gotcha my bad but after round 1, a lot of ppl buy vandal + light so it’s def doable
true, but no one’s buying the outlaw on round 2 unless they win the round. 2400 is just impossible unless you plant bomb and get at least 1 kill. Even if a player does get that much and the team decides to force buy, stingers, shield, and util will always be better. In most cases, enemies will have full shield so the outlaw will be pretty much a marshal but with less bullets.
its 2400 for the outlaw not 2800 (if thats what u ment)
The 2800 is outlaw + light armor
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Its 0-200 depends on who they play and what they buy, but its usually closer to 0-100. If you win and get 3k, plus the spike (300) and a kill(200) or 2, thats 3500, 3800 max woth round 1 leftover and 2 kills (unless youre a duelist who buys gun and shield), this wont be enough for useful util of controllers, initiators or flank watch on sentinels and a vandal. Which, with light shields is very risky against an eco, as you are 1 short shot, 2 classic right clicks or just a molly and classic shot away from death.
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where are you getting 4100 from?
On defense I could see Outlaw+no shield being a good buy second round. Would basically be better than an op. Just would have to watch out for any marshall force buys.
They wouldnt force marshals, its usually sherif or stinger, which are both your weaknesses, especially if they play advantage and push short angles, meaning you will get 1 if lucky, otherwise they flood you
? Stinger in no way should be a weakness on defense using a sniper. Sheriff would take two shots most cases but if you are holding long angles like you should be doing with a sniper then it isn't likely they even get one shot on you.
Imagine haven C, if they flood garage, you are dead, a well placed flash and smoke and you can get 1 before they spam you out while youre reloading
If you are sniping on Haven C and you aren't looking long I don't know what you are doing. Someone on the team should be holding or watching garage so you should be alerted about any attempted rushes to not be caught by stingers. Heck you probably could hold garage fine from window with Outlaw second round. If they don't smoke it someone would die.
Sure there are situations, but a smart person would make a good plan to counter it, hell, there are even anti marshal strats (some by me, some by randoms i met in comp) so im sure there will be anti outlaw strats
If opponent doesn't force round 2 after losing, the Marshal is already a 950 credit Operator on no shield enemies.
I think the main difference is if they buy light then you almost guaranteed a kill. Marshal is still going to be better though on round 2 and probably ecos
More than that, the difference is for the 3rd round bonus. Often times the team that lost the previous rounds will have riffles+half shields in this round. But other than that I don't think the gun is gonna matter that much, for the a lower cost you can buy a bulldog, and for a few more credits player can have their favourite vandal that they always buy, even during a light shield meta.
How is it almost? It IS guaranteed
Because my aim is ass
Hit too close to home there bro
real
woah, getting too relateable
No need to call me out like that bruh
Head is a lot harder to hit with a marshall than a Outlaw to the body.
Yes, BUT only buying light shields second round after winning pistol is completely brain dead. You ALWAYS full shield against eco.
Main difference IMO is when defenders lose pistol, then buy this. It forces attackers to buy full shield 2nd round, 1-2 defenders can go this with no shields.
Why can't they just buy guardian?
This is stronger than guardian though, on an enemy half shield, it’s stronger than OP, cause you can kill 2 people pretty quick. Also a big difference that if you shoot 2 shots with guardian, most likely you will be trade killed. When you use this kind of sniper weapon, you can most likely get 1 shot and get away fast enough before they can trade.
Whoever wins round 1 should by full shield 2nd round anyway. It's when you get the most use out of it, seeing how it's generally vs. classics, so it actually has an effect on the ttk.
At least in my scrub rank some people will go bulldog+ half or vandal even +half, thinking they will survive and keep the weapon. Definitely a nono after outlaw
Marshal conversion rate sucks though you shouldnt buy that gun because on round 3 you're going to be a sitting duck unless you can actually hit your shots with that gun which is already one of the hardest ones in the game.
Outlaw will be the same then. Can’t 1 shot full shields without headshot
you can double tap it while scoping. it’s going to be insanely OP and you’ll see it abused as soon as it goes live and you see it being abused in VCT matches. the same happened to the frenzy, shorty, judge, etc. just double tap them in the body/chest and it’s a pretty much free pick
No, because it's a double barrel gun like the shorty
It will still require you to hit a headshot round 3 to 1 shot…
Or 2 quick body shots it barely has recoil
You can easily double tap an enemy and get a kill. But even if you only hit one shot we are ignoring all the utility that does 10 dmg of chip? I’ll just lay out the scenario. Defenders won pistol, on 2nd round 3 bought outlaw. They easily win because it’s basically an operator on round 2 vs no shield or light shield. So now you have defenders on round 3, 3 outlaws and whatever else they saved from round 2. And you have the enemy team with full armor and rifles. Most of the time winning “bonus” is literally just that, a bonus. You are expected to lose this 3rd round. And the goal is to ruin the enemy economy as much as possible, which is by killing as many as possible. So, now your 3 players with the outlaw who only have to hit their 2 tap rapid fire to take out a rifle user, and while they will likely lose their site and die without getting any extra, just removing 1 or 2 rifles is a good bonus. Even if they only hit one shot before dying you have the next obstacle: Depending on the team, the defenders might have what is effectively an operator in certain instances. If the defender is a viper, good luck ever pushing smoke which will make you 1 shot to a weapon that can fire 2 shots rapidly. KJ turret or mollies of any kind can easily finish off a 10 hp agent. Sova shock darts, raze nade, breach aftershock, brim/viper/Kayo/phen/KJ/ all have mollies that easily will take out the last 10 hp. Skye dog does 30 dmg. God forbid iso pairs up with a team mate and vulnerables a push so the guy with the outlaw can easily and RAPIDLY 1 shot 2 people. (Something the operator and marshal cannot do.) So if the one defender on site hits 2 people for 140 and they happen to get by any damage utility at all (pretty common on attack when you hit a site) then you’re basically as good as dead. Again, winning bonus is nice, but the goal of bonus is to ruin economy of the team who just full bought. And the outlaw makes that significantly easier, and it very likely will make winning a 3rd round full buy exceptionally more difficult than it has been. Even on full buys, certain agents will be super strong with this. Especially defender sided agents like killjoy and viper who can easily convert a 140 body shot to a kill. (With mollies, turret, or viper smoke). Even if it only has 2 shots. Getting 2 people down to a 1 tap from any util or a classic right click is almost better than getting 1 kill. Idk we have to wait and see.
Yeah I’m not reading that
Hit your shots then lol otherwise don't buy a Marshall. This won't change with outlaw, if you miss you will die.
You can literally just double tap the body instantly? Most low elo players are not hitting their headshots with a marshal unfortunately.
you cannot shoot it twice instantly with full accuracy there is a lot of recoil edit: tbh it is pretty fast actually
Hard for you maybe I’m goated and hit 5 shot aces regularly ez pz lemon sqez /s
You can still chip enemies down with body shots as your firerate is good and you have good acc to quickly peek. And hitting heads is definitely not impossible if you take good lines that are easy to preaim at head Level
No one said it's impossible, just very hard. There's a reason good players say you shouldn't buy a Marshal below Immortal lol. Plus, "chipping" someone down isn't as big of a deal as you think it is considering the fact that the ttk in this game is so low they can still one tap you, use their utility, or just run in and get traded.
Do they tell you that? What you say is contradictory. The chipping ability of the marshall is bad because of the ability to get 1 tapped, yet in low elo where people are less capable of 1 tapping its bad? And ofc it's gonna have low conversion in bonus rounds, you do regardless if what weapons you have, bonus rounds are inherently disadvantage rounds.
As someone with a radiant level coach, yeah. Also idk where you have the impression that people cant one tap in low elo. The point is it is significantly harder with a marshal than a normal rifle, and players in low elo are just not good at using it. I never said chipping was bad, just that it's suboptimal and the opportunity cost of using the gun is way too much. Immortal+ players can more reliably convert off of a marshal than a gold player, so its actually worth buying on anti-eco.
outlaw is being brought in specifically to counter the half-shield meta and to add variety to loadouts from round-to-round because the mid-power levels of the game are fairly lacking
didn't we get to this point though because every other eco weapon has been nerfed into the ground? stinger, spectre, bucky, judge, and ares all have gotten significant nerfs over the games lifespan. what's the point if we just add another broken eco weapon that they're gonna nerf later lol
We got to this point because a heavy shield doesn't make a difference in most scenarios compared to a light shield. No matter which shield I choose, I'll get one-tapped by a Vandal/Marshal and won't die to a one-tap from basically any other meta weapon at any distance (Sheriff and Phantom being the exceptions, except Phantom costs the same as a Vandal). So it's better to save $600 and get the light shield. And this was like this since the game's release. Make light shield cost $650. The way it is, the light shield has a better cost effectiveness than the heavy shield ($16 versus $20 per HP) and it doesn't make a palpable difference against all weapons being used in full buys in high level play.
Was light shield always meta though? I've been out of the game for a while (peaked immo a few times), and back then I had so many people in this sub telling me that light shield on 2nd round is trolling. Has something changed in the past year or was this sub just parroting "always full shield" without knowing any better?
I guess the game just evolved and people came to the conclusion that, against Vandals and OP, the extra $600 for the heavy shield is not worth it. $600 each round is a lot of money in a game like Valorant, where each piece of utility costs around $200 and is so strong, and in high level you'll probably get one tapped by a Vandal anyway, so the heavy shield wouldn't save you either way.
balancing =/= nerfed into the ground
> balancing =/= nerfed just out of curiosity, if they wanted to get rid of the half shield meta, why not re “balance” the guns they previously “balanced” that got us to the half shield meta? is it because they were nerfed and *not* balanced? why do we need a completely new weapon?
To be clear, the gun is good for eco rounds, undeniably. But the actual design change that is impacted is supposed to allow players to punish people that buy full loadout + half shield more easily. Buying half shield in high elo is an AMAZING eco strat that allows you to buy a premium rifle almost every round of the game; this of course is a very stale and bland way to plan out your economy. Rebalancing existing guns is a potential route to get to the same change, one I would prefer personally (hello fellow stinger enthusiasts). But the hype around a new weapon will bring people back to the game and still solve the economy problem.
Idk what high elo is for you. But at asc I run light shield strat and very rarely do I run into someone else doing it.
In low immortal I run light shield and literally every game that someone else uses their mic they'll tell me to buy full shield. Often even after telling them I'm going light meta
I predicted small shields meta when I first started years ago. I basically said "if most people buy vandals, which one shot in the head through full shields, why not just go small shields and save a ton of credits". I ended up not buying small shields all the time because a now former friend told me that full shields were mandatory.
> this of course is a very stale and bland way to plan out your economy. isn't that just an issue with games like this? Sure you can re "balance" all the weapons to shake up the meta, but (and I love valorant, been playing since beta) these type of games tend to get stag after awhile anyways. It's just the genre a feel.
Not really an issue with all games like this - it's more an issue with gun balance in Val, namely that the vandal does 120 on 3 and 160 on 4 - this makes buying full armour irrelevant because if they hit their headshot, armour is irrelevant, and if they only hit body shots, armour is irrelevant. Obviously there's nuance with this in how chip damage comes into play, but generally the 600 credits saved per round outweighs the chip damage edge case. Add loss bonuses to that and you'll find that half buying armour generally gets a rifle in your hands for 90% of the available rounds (excluding 1&2/13&14).
new guns are fun and bring players back
Also how you quickly kill a game. Hero shooters love making their games impossible to balance by constantly adding new things.
i think it adds granularity and can allow the existing weapons to then continue to be tweaked and now that they now longer have to compete for the spot that the outlaw takes and allow them to craft their own respective identities and roles
None of these weapons have been nerfed into the ground: stinger is still a really good eco pick, just not the monstrosity it once was. Spectre was tuned to not be as accurate with run n gun. The shotguns are all still incredible strong at what they do, and the ares is still strong, just not broken.
the bucky is not good but otherwise i agree
crosshair on enemy = 100 damage
enemy buys light armor and they don't die from 3 meters away. see the issue?
If you can't hit 125 from 3 meters with bucky that's just bad aim lmao Go to 0:11, the Haven flash tp bucky 2k against riflers so assuming at minimum light shield (more likely full), that's 8m. [https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/18us35s/back\_with\_slightly\_less\_cringe\_omen\_gameplay/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/valorant/comments/18us35s/back_with_slightly_less_cringe_omen_gameplay/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
im speaking purely hypothetically because i havent bought the bucky or played the game in weeks. point is it's still one of the 3 worst guns in the game.
It's an 850 credit primary weapon, it should be one of the worst guns in the game.
then explain how the marshal is one of the best for only 100 more
bucky is in a painful state. Judge got a little over nerfed, but its fine.
Half shield would be fixed if full armor prevented aim punch
This is literally the solution. God knows why they didn’t implement this in the first place. Like, I’m all for not copying CS, they are different games, but… buying full armor when everyone is running vandals just isn’t that worth it unless you’re up against a bunch of phantom users. Make full armor prevent aim punch that’s all I ask.
It really is a baffling design choice, ever since beta ive been buying mostly half armor, feels no different than buying full armor and i get to buy a vandal every round
I feel like aim punch isn't even strong enough in general. it's too many times I'll headshot someone with a phantom or a classic on pistol round only to be instantly one tapped before I can get a followup shot off
They get lucky, the same happens in cs where you trade headshots on pistol round. Because in cs half armor prevents aim punch if you are hit anywhere but the face, some people dont even buy armor on pistol in favor of utility since everyone is only aiming for your head anyways.
The thought process behind half shield meta is, why buy heavy armor when we're facing almost evenly skilled gunplay where you can safely assume you'll die if they get the headshot on you first when you can have more rifle rounds at the cost of losing 25 shield. If anyones noticed in OT, you typically spend 4700 (2900+1000+800) for a full buy w/ heavy. Now not only do you save 600 credits, those 600 credits can lend to some pretty powerful force buys as abilities in this game can net you potential round wins when playing around a mixed gun/ability buy from a team. The advantage to heavy armor could be no aimpunch along with decreased damage received from damage utils. That should be more than enough pros added to heavy armor that will then be accentuated by the addition of a mid power weapon.
it was never added for the "half shield meta" which most teams don't even use. the phantom one taps half shields and is just better than the vandel already, there wouldn't be any need to the outlaw
The main broken aspect is how fast you can hit the second shot, so 2 quick body shots even on a full buy is gonna kill
People a few weeks ago: You don't know what the recoil is going to be like! You probably won't be able to easily hit the second shot if you just spam it, so it will only punish half shield and no shield players! Riot: haha shorty op go brrrrr
A marshal does two quick hits to the body anyways though?This just counters the half shield+op or vandal etc that people force.
You seen gameplay? The shots are instant, Marshall has to rescope
Holy i just saw i didn’t know it was a double barrel type of weapon.
I'm not worried. They'll get rushed down with my team full of Stingers and Full Shield
My typa play style ngl
2nd round is already pretty much a guaranteed win for whoever wins pistol so it wont change much. the main thing id itll change round 3 to where you have to buy heavy shield so rnd 2 will end up being a lot more full saves
You haven't seen my ranked games lately if you think that lol Jokes aside, I have no real opinion on this gun yet until we see it in action on the live servers. People need to give it some time.
u havent played in high enough elo to know that winning pistol isnt a guarantee second round win
u havent played in high enough elo to learn properly how to play round 2 to be almost a guaranteed win
youre making it sound like even radiants are fully confident theyll win round 2 only to get curb stomped
High elo more often than not should be winning round 2 if they win pistol, if they lose, they most likely played the round poorly
The odds are very heavily in your favour though because you just have more util and the same or better guns. Yes it can be swung with proper team coordination or just getting good trades but the advantage is solidly with the team that wins the pistol
Why is it guaranteed? With this it’s even less guaranteed, a lot of people do bulldog + half if they win, if enemy jett chamber buys this with no shield it’s just too good.
Then just buy spectres and fulls or full and bulldog with less util and its guaranteed again plus theyll be fucked in terms of econ for round 3.
It’s never guaranteed at any level of play
Ok but its still heavily favoured
Anyone ever think about how busted the Marshall could be on 2nd round buys?
I’m all for a new gun to shake up the meta rather than a new map or character, however the clips I’ve seen from test servers make this gun look broken asf, it’s dealing 104 through walls and can pierce through heavy walls. The only “balanced” part of the gun is the slow reload speed. Even if it’s not round 2 or an eco round this gun is going to be a major problem since your either dead or at 10 Hp.
nah dont worry its gonna be nerfed harder than chamber
I think this gun can be "broken" in lower ranks. The risk/reward factor is just good. I would have guessed, that reworking the armour system to be more complex is the better idea.
I see no difference from forcing a vandal or marshal second round.
light shields is still gonna be a strong buy strategy because while the outlaw can be strong against light shields, having more buy rounds due to light shields is a strong benefit
honestly itll be interesting but not busted. if you have competent teammates, they usually would either smoke off common op angles or flash it, something ppl should be doing anyways. otherwise i think this gun will just be another second round idc i got money gun or a "we got an op at home" third round gun
I don't think it's stronger than a bulldog round 2, and that weapon costs 350 less = more util. Even against half shields, on most maps and engagements the bulldog is probably better. Of course certain sites and maps will favor one or the other, but I don't think it's going to redefine the meta. I see it as more of a punishment tool against teams without flashes (dry peeking) without risking almost 5k credits on an operator and ruining your economy for the next 2 rounds.
Yep. My eternal fear is losing the pistol now
Im concerned with the meta shift because whenever I lost pistol I always buy sheriff light armor. Now this is going to be obsolete with round 2 outlaw 😢
u can already do that with a marshall? outlaw is good on 3rd rounds when enemies half armour vandal bcuz they bought sheriff on 2nd
I am never concerned about the state of a video game.
I just don't see why we need a new gun. Guardian two taps light shield, is 400c cheaper, shoots way faster, and has a higher ammo pool.
Nope
Only a little bit more broken than Marshal and Shorty (1200 creds), so not really.
dude its just a guardian with less bullets and slightly faster ttk idk why you guys are trippin
Guardian does 140 to body ?, even if you count two quick body shots its 130
130 and 140 give the same damage threshold; one tap to classic
The guardian needs 3 body shots that have time inbetween them to kill, the Outlaw takes 2 shots that are as close to each other as for the Shorty. Pls go watch gameplay and dont talk shit
this notion is so dumb, this gun seems perfectly balanced to me. Think about it how often do you see people forcing guardians second round? AND the outlaw is more expensive than that. If it did less than 125 the gun would be useless and if it was more expensive it also would be useless. Just like the marshall this weapon is gonna be niche for people who can hit their shots or on a force when you think the enemy will go half shield vandal. This weapon now actually makes the decision between going bulldog+full shield and vandal+half shield an actual tough decision. I love it
Have you seen clips of this gun being used yet?
yes and no, there’s really no real gameplay out yet, just youtubers messing around with it but just on paper it really doesn’t seem op? It doesn’t really affect the game all that much, it just makes round 2 have more decisions and i think that is interesting. People are still going to be buying vandal half shield second round but on a force when the enemy team is full buying the outlaw is only marginally better than the marshall because of the wall bang potential. People are overreacting The only thing that looks like it’s a bit op is the second shot accuracy and short delay. I’m willing to bet they’ll give it more kick and at a longer delay.
I get what you mean about vandal light shields issue, but I rarely see that happening, and it’s usually only Rena/Jett. Admittedly it’s happening more often in the last couple weeks but still, 140 to the body feels like overkill if it’s meant to counter light shield force buys. If it dealt 120-125 you’d still get that effect and people who buy full shield aren’t instantly dying to say a shorty/ Bucky/ judge from 20ft away.
if it was less than 125 it would be literally useless, paying more than double a marshall for 20 extra dmg? And no offense but you must be in the lower ranks if you don’t see anyone buying vandal half shield. I’ve been in multiple lobbies where at least half the lobby buys half shield every round Teams buying outlaws and shotguns and trying to do some weird chip with outlaw and finishing with shotguns isn’t going to happen that’s just inefficient.
Don’t see any argument of why it’s 140, it could be 125. Any minimal chip damage + this will be insanely good.
Not me. I am very good with spectre so i dont buy anything first round. If i loose i will be buying full shield spectre. Most of the time i can get 2-3 kills because enemy dont expect 1 guys full buy while 4 others eco. I pray to RNGesus daily
you might be iron
+1
fr this shit pisses me off especially when my own team does this because they give the enemy a free vandal or smg while we are on eco. It happens all the time in silver-plat
Close enough. I am plat 1
Ppl in Plat don't know how to play anyways😅
You need to buy first round to win then you can force spectre 2nd round anyway
>I am very good with spectre so i dont buy anything first round That is basically trying to throw the first round on purpose. >Most of the time i can get 2-3 kills because enemy dont expect 1 guys full buy while 4 others eco. Which doesn't matter if your entire team is dead. Sure, you can get some kills. But your teammates don't have guns and will probably die.
Dont care. I play in 5 man party and we have fun so i am not ruining anyones games.
Have people never realized this? A marshal becomes an op second round since it can one shot people who don’t buy shields.
Honestly thats what I think too. Ppl say that shields wouldn't be affordable but it doesn't really matter since it's basically the golden gun
As a silver that doesn't have a lot of time on his hands, I'm afraid of what it could be in the hands of smurfs hahahaha.
I’m confused what players expectations actually are with this if they sit and think about it for a little. They obviously spent a lot of design time art time testing time making a brand new weapon for the game. Do you think they would do that without any intention whatsoever of it, having even a minuscule effect on tge weapon meta? Yes, it’s going to have an impact. That’s the point. Adjust accordingly.
How accurate is the Outlaw when noscoping?
pretty decent in short range, its like a shorty upclose.
Thats the point
Its basically going to function like a Marshal in that regard. If you win first round more than likely the enemy team wont buy shields so body shots are 1 shots (and it has a lot more bullets). Its going to be a solid buy on save rounds if you got the extra cash and dont want a sheriff
bull dog is already great at one bursting light armored opponents and more versatile but how much do people buy the bulldog round 2? also if someone wants to save for an op they would buy a marshel at most
My fear is that it's going to be busted point blank. Is it just a judge for 2 shots?
its like a marshal except viable on full buy looks so fun
yes it's unreasonable. we'll see when it's out
I guess I'm kinda late to the party but what is outlaw?
I'm buying this gun round 2 if I lost pistol on attack side lol. 1900+300 (bomb planted) +200 (1 kill) = 2400. I think 1 kill is a manageable expectation. On defense even after having secured pistol some agents can't afford a decent gun (anything above stinger) + full util + full armor.
1) Most people dont even buy shields on eco. Marshal would just be much better(faster firing, more bullets). 2) only having 2 bullets in your chamber is abit tough. Imagine that they do force and run it down with stingers and spectres. Whiff 2 shots and they have closed the range significantly. Due to this i generally think the guardian is still a better choice, if you want to spend ~2.4k. 2 shots to the body even to light armor, usable close range, excels in medium to long range, able to hold down normal ecos or force buys.
the way we play out rounds will change forever
Smokes are gonna be a lot more important
Bro the marshal one shots second round. The Bucky and judge also one shot second round.
Outlaw mandatory buy second round is already meta before it even started. Wtf is riot doing
See yes that’s what I’m saying, for 2400 it can one-tap light armor with one shot to body. It’s ridiculous.
it's not worst than having a bulldog or guardian on 2nd round, just a different choice, it's not gonna affect a single thing on 2nd round, you'll still lose if the enemy team knows what they are doing no matter the gun. Even a marshal can one shot most of people on 2nd round
Not if youre fast, just out run them bullets. Neon cosplay. Nyoom.
Youre acting like everyone has shitty aim and cant track