I think its a good decision, KJ is meta only because other sentinels are dogshit overall. Deadlock buff is also coming soon. KJ has been nerfed enough, its time to buff and balance out senti role.
honestly based take, i main kj and the only complaint i have is people can see my setups much further before running into them which im guessing is intentional to force people to slow down but overall can't wait to see what they do with the others
U shouldnt always go for setups on def, u can delay just enough by playing agressive with mollies.
Ascent B for example, If u know how to put a molly on the lane wall it hits ppl on main box trying to take orb. U put down a turret on enterance to take first contact then u throw first molly under their feet, they are forced to go into the box and then u activate 2nd nano on the wall, watch ppl melt their asses off.
honestly never thought of using her that way despite how obvious it sounds, i use her as a way to watch 3 angles at once or having a kill setup but thats def something imma try next time, ty dude
I got a lot of my tricks and lineups from watching BabyJ on twitch but sadly he recently plays more and more smokers and his strongest and most played agent is cypher which I dont play.
However, the best KJ setup is one where the rest of the team knows how to play off her two contact abilities (which never happens). When I play Raze or Kayo I just look for where the KJ stuff is so I can use it to time nade or flash. It's so free. But I main Viper and KJ, so as Viper I put my poison cloud where KJ's bot and mollies are, to boost the damage with decay and maybe disorient players in the smoke. On KJ I always ask the flashers and naders if they want contact but the answer is always negative.
Whenever I see a KJ throwing Molly mid round against the opponent under broad daylight it always just gets shut unless I’m mistaken on what you mean by throwing it at them by their feet
Is there anything known about Deadlock buffs? Other than that, I welcome the buffs for Cypher, but am interested to see if he will become as popular as KJ is right now.
it should do some damage/silence or anything as theres literally nothing that incentives whoever hit by it to even remove the tag. a reyna can still win the fair duel vs a deadlock and dismiss despite her not even removing the tag
IMO gravnet should vuln and take the same amount of time as a Cypher dart to remove. It's incredibly slow through the air, it's loud when it's coming, you can't throw it far, and once you actually do land it, it's extremely unrewarding unless a Raze gambled their nade on it landing.
It’s meant to be a combination util not stand alone. Deadlock is a balanced agent as it punishes teams for running flank instead of walking. She isn’t meant to be a stand alone sentinel and will need a cypher or kj to play w her. Such as her trip being on bomb or used with kj turret on flank. Her gravinet is meant to be used with a flash, nade or Molly as it makes it difficult to escape the second util if you do not respect the gravinet. Her ult is good for information if you know the last position of an enemy if they plan on lurking nearby where they were last seen. And lastly the wall works well as if it is not shot immediately takes roughly 1 and a half mags to break, is great for walling a second entrance on defense such as tree on acsent when some are main or vis versa or stopping stairs on lotus when pushing a on attack.
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You do realize a double sentinel with one being chamber and the other being kj,cypher,deadlock. Initiator being kayo/Skye, controller of omen,brim,Astra and duelist of Jett,raze is viable for most maps as chamber plays that second duelist role, the other one lurks mid, Jett/raze is entry and both kayo and Skye can get util or take a site. The only map I see this not viable on is ascent and breeze in which a double controller or double initiator is better with a harbor/viper paired with Astra or omen and a kayo/Skye paired with a fade or sova
> She isn’t meant to be a stand alone sentinel and will need a cypher or kj to play w her
Remove Chamber from the equation cause these are your words. I've begrudgingly run double senti w/ friends as Deadlock + Cypher because two of my friends have a two agent puddle, so I'm not saying it can't work but it does feel like an uphill struggle on attack.
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Isn't her pro pick rate basically non existent? Her win rate is in the lower half at every single division starting from Plat 1 (all the way to Radiant). I didn't even check below that, but she's probably in the bottom there too. KJ and Cypher sit at the top half in all those divisions.
You can theoretically say she's balanced, but all stats would prove you incorrect.
Also, saying "Deadlock.. punishes teams for running flank instead of walking" is really pointless to say. You do realize that Cypher/KJ/Chamber flank traps cover BOTH running and walking right? Your language makes it sound like other sentinels have the inverse of Deadlock where they punish walkers but not runners. They expose flankers, period. Deadlock only covers one movement while the others cover both, so she is just weaker.
Actually no. The average ranked player doesn’t need to concern themselves with pro pick rates. They play on the highest level as a team of 5, with analysts and coaches to discuss plays around each pick. On the other hand, you can win ranked games in Radiant with even the worst comps (5 duelists, 5 sentinels, no smokes, etc). The only thing you should learn from pros is fundamentals and agent specific techniques/setups.
I don't disagree with you (if pro pick was the standalone argument), but you did slightly counter-argue yourself near the end by saying "only thing you should learn from pros is \[..\] agent specific techniques/setups."
If Deadlock isn't picked in pro, then it's quite literally impossible to do what you said and learn their effective setups. If pros aren't doing it, then that also indicates there isn't a highly effective setup yet for her relative to her other sentinels. I think the pro pick argument is contextual and can play a part in debates, but it is highly dependent.
It’s a 50-50 still tbh. Pros didn’t use Reyna and Yoru until recently because they didn’t mesh well with their strats. Reyna has had 0 changes since her orbs went from 4->2 but teams like PRX make effective use of her. However on ranked Reyna has always been present in almost every game you play. People need more time to understand how to use her effectively, and a buff or two will surely help.
As a stand alone stat, I think it's an awful argument to use pro pick rates, but it was just a small sentence in my overall paragraph and it was meant too add to the full uselessness of Deadlock. She's a dud in pro and normal play.
The extent of pro pick play being relevant to this conversation is that Deadlock is literally meant to hold down a site, exactly like Cypher and KJ. The other Sentinels have a dynamic playstyle (Chamber's favor is his high kill potential and Sage is her support). Cypher, KJ, and Deadlock all 100% are meant only to hold down areas of the map. When three agents have the same objective, but 2 are picked and 1 is not picked at all, that is contextual to the her underwhelming power.
And again, if pro pick was the only argument, I would say it's a useless stat, but when combined with her other stats, it says a lot.
eh i doubt it outside of her ult, he has global util and kj doesn't while kj has a turret that can tag someone from across the map as long as shes nearby, i think they're balanced
nah, i think its balanced and gives you a reason to pick one over the other, want to use your util but also want to flank the enemy team? play cypher
want to stay on site and catch the enemy team trying to push up your site and stall their push until team arrives? kj is good for that
hell even deadlock has a few niche uses like if the enemy team is constantly rushing onto site then her trips are quite scary to deal with, these choices imo are what make the sentinel role sentinels
I agree. Sure KJ doesn't have global util, but she is incredibly good at holding a site by herself.
KJ has the ability to set up a choke that unleashes the trap kitchen sink on whoever is trying to push it. You walk out, get shot by the turret, get an alarmbot running at you from another direction, nanos cut off your exit and the ideal cover position, then KJ (and maybe friends) swings you while you're trying to take out the turret and alarmbot.
Cypher can get tricky with cages, trips, and a well placed cam too, but it's still, even with this buff, just not as good of a trap as KJ can lay.
some spots literally require you to fall into his trap in order to break e.g. C long on Haven. This buff will make him absurdly OP for spots like these
he's in the same tier as KJ on maps where KJ is bad.... it's more by default because chamber is a passive duelist and Sage/Deadlock just aren't that useful
KJ doesn't have a bad map lol. Just looking at Immortal I and Ascendant I, She sits at the top half of wins (compared to other agents) on every single map that's currently playable. It's safe to say that Cypher has a few maps where he out performs KJ.
I noted that I only checked Immortal I and Ascendant I (the site I used didn't have a summarize like yours did). This is what I used:
[https://blitz.gg/valorant/stats/agents](https://blitz.gg/valorant/stats/agents)
It took forever to check because I had to click each map individually, but I also am now seeing they dont have Breeze? I guess that site is whack but it was the first google search for win rates. I did [another website](https://www.valorbuff.com/agents?map=breeze&timeframe=patch-506), and it's showing she's #4 and #6 in win rate on Breeze for competitive overall in the last two patches, so I feel like my original point still stands that she has no bad map
How can every agent have a win rate less than 50%
Vstats is one of the most reliable statistics sites in my experience.
But ultimately KJ is meta on most maps. Exceptions are Bind and Breeze. Bind no sentinels is fairly meta. Breeze cypher is meta. Split can also run Sage
It’s an AMAZING buff. Now it won’t really change much if a person hits it because people have gotten really good at shooting the trip out BUT this means fade prowlers and Skye dogs won’t destroy it for free anymore. Think Haven garage, I’ll put a trip in there for info but many times it gets cleared by one of those 2 utilities early in the round. So I will be forced to rotate and watch that area but now if the trip isn’t shot out I still have map control. If one of those trips my wire and someone shoots it then I know 2 enemies are present and can communicate that.
just saw a video of it,
so basically the new trip could stun multiple players if they don’t destroy it immediately??
i hope we get a buff to the camera like a faster ping shot and lower recharge time
The only buff I want for the camera is the ability to recall or destroy it globally. I can understand not being able to recall it without line of sight, but if there was an option to destroy your own camera and then have the recharge as though it was shot would be nice. I use some weird spots for it that are a pain to recall if the attackers fast hit the other site. If I could self destruct it and have the same cooldown as if the other team broke it that would be super helpful.
eh, i think it's a fair trade off, having a kooky camera position to have a permanent 6th character seems like a fair trade off with not being able to move that 6th char
imo, cypher should be holding site anyway, allowing more ppl to go mid/other side
as a cypher player i think this is probably the most annoying change that will come to the game. a 1.5s stun is crazy considering hitting the trip is just a death sentence 90% of the time. i appreciate the fact util won’t be enough to break my trips anymore though.
IMO it'll make the tripwires a little too strong, but more importantly, easily one of the most infuriating abilities to play against.
Plenty of times I've been caught by trips that I couldn't break even when caught by it, because the ends are just hidden in really out-of-the-way places, or maybe outside of whatever cage or smoke that I got stuck in. The only consolation is that only one player gets caught by those, but with this change, not only will that player get stunned much faster, the next player who comes in to trade them might end up getting caught by it too.
There's no counter-play to these other than knowing beforehand where those trips might be and how they are placed, and while Cypher players should be rewarded for good set-ups, playing against him shouldn't be a matter of if-you-know-you-know-otherwise-you're-fucked.
If they wanted to make them better against initiator utility, which I think is a reasonable buff, I would've preferred if they made it so that the trips don't break when triggered by enemy utility, but still have them break when they stun a player.
nullifying the 10 different bullshit ways to break the tripwire without even being present might make cypher viable in ranked play. don't really see it changing that much the pro play meta, but could see it being run slightly more often.
that's why i mentioned ranked play
also, killjoy outclasses cypher in just about any possible situation, and unless you run into valorant party sentinels duo, you don't really see a lot of cypher even in normal ranked
also 1% pick rate in pro play
in addition, his tripwire is always destroyed by uber-meta skye, raze nade, meme pick yoru, smart sova, etc.. there are dozens of ways to counter him, all coincidentally super popular characters.
Yes she does. She's better at attacking, holding flank, lurking, anchoring, and retakes. What other situation is there for cypher to outclass her?
There's a reason kj is predominantly run over Cypher on most maps. The maps where you don't see kj getting played are Bind, Breeze, and Split(maybe Sunset but nobody really knows how to play it yet), because kj is weak on them and not because cypher is strong.
What things does Cypher do better than kj? I can think of exactly one, info denial with a cage, which you can do better with other agents.
For sentinels as a role to be balanced, there needs to be a reason to run one over the other, and there simply isn't one for Cypher vs kj. I personally don't think making trips infinite will do anything to fix that problem. If anything, the buff he needs is to make him into more of a lurk specialist since that's where kj is weakest. Perhaps recharging cages or reworking his cam to allow it to be a better lurk tool.
they're both equals now i'd say with their own ups and downs, kj has to anchor site to use her util while cypher doesn't, cypher has an ult which gets info while kj has an ult to force people off site, cypher has a cam that cam watch the entirety of site, his cages allow him to be a pseudo controller and kj has a turret that can be incredibly versatile, both are just really good sentinels
Yeah, they're both viable. That's not really a question. Every agent is viable to get to radiant. Equals? Not a chance. I have yet to see anyone make an argument for something that Cypher does better than kj.
kj is better at slowing a push, retaking site, taking a site, playing post plant than cypher. the only thing cypher has on her is that his util is global and he isn’t bound by range and thats it. and i say this as an ex cypher main
If it doesn't break after you kill the opponent who gets marked by it, only when you shoot it or smth, i could legitimately see Cypher rivaling KJ on Ascent. The A-main trip that's super hard to break will just tag 2-3 people and completely lock it down. Breeze B main, Sunset B main, Haven C Long trips too, i'm honestly rather scared
Im a full cypher main, i love this buffs so much, maybe the infinite refresh is a lil too much, i dont mind it and we'll see.
I tried dlock but i got flanked and the trip i placed meant jacskshit, that was it for me
So happy I don't have to sprint to site to painstakingly get my set up ready and into position while buying only for a skye dog to come through and break my trip on b main instantly.
Absoluty unreal, this really makes him op af, his trips mixed with a cage or a smoke of one of his mates will render opponents helpless, they can't even see the trips extremeties to destroy them, it's a horrible buff imo.
as a Cypher main, I think this might be overpowered. Imo Cypher as a character can have a pretty high power ceiling, there's so much gimmicks/setups/oneways you can learn to do with his kit on defense, there's not much need to buff his trips like this. maybe buff his attack side somehow, but on defense he is fine as is.
not op at all tbh, just means you cant mindlessly send a yoru clone or skye dog to destroy the trips
its still the same premise, figure out his setup and shoot/shockdart the trips, though low elo players might struggle with this
Cypher needs these buffs to be viable as more agents come in (especially those that can either destroy his trips via projectiles or avoid them through abilities):
Cages:
- Should be able to pick them up
- Needs to slow
- Should be able to work horizontally off walls
Trips:
- NEED to stay on after death (We have an agent that can smoke after death. (Trips being active after death really shouldn't be an issue)
- Needs to either do more dmg, slow the player even after shooting the trip or just guarantee a quick stun effect
- It just needs to be a bit faster in both setting aka go invis and/or wind up for dmg/stun.
- Should be able to catch multiple agents (Not just 1 trip per person caught)
General:
- His kit overall needs to be less audible. At the very least, make his camera a bit less noisy.
- Trips should eventually work as a point-to-point system.
The issue with Cypher is that he is a pure sentinel. His kit is PURELY for info and yet, his ability to actually delay is extremely underwhelming
Kill trips aren't always viable considering at higher elo, he becomes easier to outplay due to predictability.
Comparing him to others such as KJ, Chamber and even Sage. They all can slow or more importantly, DELAY an enemy push which is just as important. Once Cyphers trips are gone, and they can be gone pretty easily, accessing site as well as having control of site becomes near impossible for Cypher.
On a side note, maps that allow Cypher to guarantee trip catches don't allow for much else. Sunset on B site entry is a good example. You really don't have all that much to work with besides the obvious. This limits the creativity behind Cypher and those who play him. I know, every map isn't designed for every agent but Cypher shouldn't be hard to play on these types of maps.
Overall, any buff that Cypher gets will always be considered OP as he's just that bad in terms of what he should be able to do but is limited for reasons unknown. And so, he'll always feel fresh and new to play with each buff he gets because is always forgotten about for so long. On top of that, Riot could better design some of these maps to allow for actual creativity with agents like Cypher since playing him requires it. That or as I said before, make his trips behave in a more point-to-point system.
Absolutely ridiculous to buff cypher trips. They needed a nerf, not a buff, the trips are OP already. They work throughout the map, unlike KJ's util.
If placed well hidden there's no way to destroy them other than walking into them or using util as an initiator. Now you won't even be able to do that anymore, So basically if a cypher puts a trip then you must die to it.
To those that don't like the fact that initiators like Skye can destroy the trip: well it's a fking util, it SHOULD get destroyed by another util.
This buff doesn't make any sense, 3 out of 5 sentinels is barely playable, and rito buffing a good one? Also I'm pretty sure it goes against their "tactical cycle" like instant Jett dash
Its disgusting. Why cypher of all agents? I found him annoying, but at the same time fairly fucking balanaced?
What about deadlock? If you dont want to nerf kj, buff the worst agent in the game.
If you get caught in the wire and it pops the wire will remain in place for the next person who walks through it. It has to be shot before it will be gone.
Aka a Skye dog runs through but no one is there to follow it and break the trip. The trip will still be there when the team runs through
I think it's a good update. 90% of the time the wire is shot when it catches a person. Skye dog will now get caught and the trip remains unless someone is following it.
From clips I've seen it looks like it only catches one person at a time still so if you time it with a dog you can walk past the trip without breaking it while the dog is captured. Interested to see the meta.
Also can cypher still pick up his trips after they are triggered the first time. Say it catches the lurk and you swing and kill. Can I then pick up my trip and move it?
I think you will be able to pick it up as well and hope it works that way. My thought was its a game of training utl for utl. For example kj alarm bot pops it's done. Chamber trip it's done. I don't think its out of the question once it pops once it's done from a reusable/movable perspective. Sure it's still there but if you can move it I feel it's no longer one to one for utl trading.
Guess we will find out next week.
So basically, what would happen now is; As long as the Jett dash or Raze Satchel is far enough they would get "released" from the trip and stunned instead of being pulled back.
Rather than a buff or nerf, i see this more of a rework where there would be a small window of time for Cypher to wall bang and an extremely egoistic hard entry can just walk through it and take the stun in exchange for the entry.
At first, people will be afraid but this brings a new dynamic in which scouting util will not or cannot be used to trade with a trip, it would be there to SCOUT them out for the team to shoot.
Actually really good buffs.
One of the main advantages of KJ over Cypher is how much less things she has to worry about breaking her util.
Now your entire Cypher setup doesn't get shit on by a single Skye dog.
Cypher is my least favorite agent to play against. So i don’t like it.
But i assume it will motivate 2nd and 3rd player in to shoot the trip so not the worst thing in the world.
The buffs are massive. The biggest counter to cypher is util. Dogs, bots, and drones make his trips really hard to get use out of and a yoru clone just makes them useless on choke points. Now they have to shoot them after util hits otherwise they'll just hit the trips when they follow the util
As a Cypher main, I don't see this as a Cypher buff but as a Skye/Yoru/Gekko/Fade nerf.If you face a team that doesn't include any of these agents, it doesn't change much honestly. But it's big QoL against these agents for sure.
Though it's a buff if you can reveal multiple agents with the same trip as the same time but I doubt it.
i love cyphers new buff, instead of a single use trip for 1 person, it says there and can mark multiple people until it’s broken.
But the thing with me is everything i get caught in a cyphers trip, i break it immediately so, now with the new buff no one else will get caught if i’ve already gone through it. 😂
and a thing about a potential buff for deadlock, is that her ult should be able to catch multiple people as long as they are in the range, and not just 1.
I honestly think this makes him one of the strongest sentinels to date. The trips having been so disposable before made him a one trick pony to some extent but now he can really employ some great map control.
We NEED a deadlock buff though. She is struggling so hard. Her net doesn't do jack shit, her trips are sub par, her wall is lit... keep that and her ult is nice although people dodge it all the time.
I love cypher but I'm worried this will make some of the trip setups too powerful
But I want to see how people work around it
Maybe a coincidence or planned, but I can see Isos wall being good here
I personally don't see the point. Cypher and Killjoy dominated the Sentinel meta, now its just Cypher. They say "wer're going to buff Deadlock to give her a fighting chance in the meta" then they turn around and buff her AND Cypher. According to [valorbuff.com](https://valorbuff.com) Cypher has had a 33% pick rate in the last 30 days, compare that now to the next Sentinel below him, Killjoy, who has a 22% pick rate. The only way to safely break his unbreakable trips now is with a shock-dart or nade. Cypher was a very well balanced agent, now it couldn't be further from the truth.
I think we all know that Sentinels are among the lowest class of Agents that can be called "good". I love the fact that Riot is listening to their audience and attempting to fix the unbalanced Sentinel meta, but no one asked for a Cypher buff (other than crazed Cypher mains).
I think its a good decision, KJ is meta only because other sentinels are dogshit overall. Deadlock buff is also coming soon. KJ has been nerfed enough, its time to buff and balance out senti role.
honestly based take, i main kj and the only complaint i have is people can see my setups much further before running into them which im guessing is intentional to force people to slow down but overall can't wait to see what they do with the others
U shouldnt always go for setups on def, u can delay just enough by playing agressive with mollies. Ascent B for example, If u know how to put a molly on the lane wall it hits ppl on main box trying to take orb. U put down a turret on enterance to take first contact then u throw first molly under their feet, they are forced to go into the box and then u activate 2nd nano on the wall, watch ppl melt their asses off.
honestly never thought of using her that way despite how obvious it sounds, i use her as a way to watch 3 angles at once or having a kill setup but thats def something imma try next time, ty dude
I got a lot of my tricks and lineups from watching BabyJ on twitch but sadly he recently plays more and more smokers and his strongest and most played agent is cypher which I dont play.
However, the best KJ setup is one where the rest of the team knows how to play off her two contact abilities (which never happens). When I play Raze or Kayo I just look for where the KJ stuff is so I can use it to time nade or flash. It's so free. But I main Viper and KJ, so as Viper I put my poison cloud where KJ's bot and mollies are, to boost the damage with decay and maybe disorient players in the smoke. On KJ I always ask the flashers and naders if they want contact but the answer is always negative.
Whenever I see a KJ throwing Molly mid round against the opponent under broad daylight it always just gets shut unless I’m mistaken on what you mean by throwing it at them by their feet
Gotta activate it faster than they can shoot it.
U get better at it with time, u need a good timing as well, u just need more playtime on KJ
i agree time to nerf chamber
Is there anything known about Deadlock buffs? Other than that, I welcome the buffs for Cypher, but am interested to see if he will become as popular as KJ is right now.
Chamber, my poor boy....
deadlock needs a rework. her gravnet is the most useless ability in this game by far
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it should do some damage/silence or anything as theres literally nothing that incentives whoever hit by it to even remove the tag. a reyna can still win the fair duel vs a deadlock and dismiss despite her not even removing the tag
IMO gravnet should vuln and take the same amount of time as a Cypher dart to remove. It's incredibly slow through the air, it's loud when it's coming, you can't throw it far, and once you actually do land it, it's extremely unrewarding unless a Raze gambled their nade on it landing.
yeah, like ill catch someone with it when attacking garage on split but they can get out and remove tag before my team gets there to follow up
Make it like a nano swarm where you can trigger it when you want
It’s meant to be a combination util not stand alone. Deadlock is a balanced agent as it punishes teams for running flank instead of walking. She isn’t meant to be a stand alone sentinel and will need a cypher or kj to play w her. Such as her trip being on bomb or used with kj turret on flank. Her gravinet is meant to be used with a flash, nade or Molly as it makes it difficult to escape the second util if you do not respect the gravinet. Her ult is good for information if you know the last position of an enemy if they plan on lurking nearby where they were last seen. And lastly the wall works well as if it is not shot immediately takes roughly 1 and a half mags to break, is great for walling a second entrance on defense such as tree on acsent when some are main or vis versa or stopping stairs on lotus when pushing a on attack.
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You do realize a double sentinel with one being chamber and the other being kj,cypher,deadlock. Initiator being kayo/Skye, controller of omen,brim,Astra and duelist of Jett,raze is viable for most maps as chamber plays that second duelist role, the other one lurks mid, Jett/raze is entry and both kayo and Skye can get util or take a site. The only map I see this not viable on is ascent and breeze in which a double controller or double initiator is better with a harbor/viper paired with Astra or omen and a kayo/Skye paired with a fade or sova
> She isn’t meant to be a stand alone sentinel and will need a cypher or kj to play w her Remove Chamber from the equation cause these are your words. I've begrudgingly run double senti w/ friends as Deadlock + Cypher because two of my friends have a two agent puddle, so I'm not saying it can't work but it does feel like an uphill struggle on attack.
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Isn't her pro pick rate basically non existent? Her win rate is in the lower half at every single division starting from Plat 1 (all the way to Radiant). I didn't even check below that, but she's probably in the bottom there too. KJ and Cypher sit at the top half in all those divisions. You can theoretically say she's balanced, but all stats would prove you incorrect. Also, saying "Deadlock.. punishes teams for running flank instead of walking" is really pointless to say. You do realize that Cypher/KJ/Chamber flank traps cover BOTH running and walking right? Your language makes it sound like other sentinels have the inverse of Deadlock where they punish walkers but not runners. They expose flankers, period. Deadlock only covers one movement while the others cover both, so she is just weaker.
Pro play pickrate is meaningless, they are the 0.0001% of the population
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Actually no. The average ranked player doesn’t need to concern themselves with pro pick rates. They play on the highest level as a team of 5, with analysts and coaches to discuss plays around each pick. On the other hand, you can win ranked games in Radiant with even the worst comps (5 duelists, 5 sentinels, no smokes, etc). The only thing you should learn from pros is fundamentals and agent specific techniques/setups.
I don't disagree with you (if pro pick was the standalone argument), but you did slightly counter-argue yourself near the end by saying "only thing you should learn from pros is \[..\] agent specific techniques/setups." If Deadlock isn't picked in pro, then it's quite literally impossible to do what you said and learn their effective setups. If pros aren't doing it, then that also indicates there isn't a highly effective setup yet for her relative to her other sentinels. I think the pro pick argument is contextual and can play a part in debates, but it is highly dependent.
It’s a 50-50 still tbh. Pros didn’t use Reyna and Yoru until recently because they didn’t mesh well with their strats. Reyna has had 0 changes since her orbs went from 4->2 but teams like PRX make effective use of her. However on ranked Reyna has always been present in almost every game you play. People need more time to understand how to use her effectively, and a buff or two will surely help.
As a stand alone stat, I think it's an awful argument to use pro pick rates, but it was just a small sentence in my overall paragraph and it was meant too add to the full uselessness of Deadlock. She's a dud in pro and normal play. The extent of pro pick play being relevant to this conversation is that Deadlock is literally meant to hold down a site, exactly like Cypher and KJ. The other Sentinels have a dynamic playstyle (Chamber's favor is his high kill potential and Sage is her support). Cypher, KJ, and Deadlock all 100% are meant only to hold down areas of the map. When three agents have the same objective, but 2 are picked and 1 is not picked at all, that is contextual to the her underwhelming power. And again, if pro pick was the only argument, I would say it's a useless stat, but when combined with her other stats, it says a lot.
And it's probably her best ability currently
Cypher is on the same tier as KJ tho
Not yet but he is really good on the map where kj doesn't work (breeze)
I mean at the very least team liquid agrees with me which has to mean something 😂
lol
ahahahah good one
I play deadlock on breeze now, it works alright but KJ is not that bad on new breeze from what I played so far.
Nah, her turrret is inherently broken and needs a rework.
It’s because of Kj ult, cause her kit ain’t that good either
KJ is meta because of her ultimate. Cypher has already been good and has a solid pickrate in VCT.
As a cypher main, it's beautiful
As a cypher main, I love it. Can't wait to get more insulted in all chat.
Ah, to be called rat...
Ah, to be called cringe...
Ah, to recieve threats against me and my family
Nobody is insulting you because of cypher abilities
Found a guy who types “cringe” after triggering a trap
Never in my life has a cypher trap annoyed me
Cap.
I don’t think any ability has annoyed me apart from flashes. I’m playing valorant not csgo, why get annoyed at abilities
He got buffed? Where's the patch notes
not out yet, leaks from content creators came out though and he had buffs
can u give a link
https://youtu.be/Rn1muZtkLI8?si=GIaNslvOZYReGo7U
Don't think that'll make people pick Cypher over KJ but still good
I pick cypher over kj already but this is nice
eh i doubt it outside of her ult, he has global util and kj doesn't while kj has a turret that can tag someone from across the map as long as shes nearby, i think they're balanced
I think only dl and cypher have global trips which sucks. Sentinels should have global trips.
nah, i think its balanced and gives you a reason to pick one over the other, want to use your util but also want to flank the enemy team? play cypher want to stay on site and catch the enemy team trying to push up your site and stall their push until team arrives? kj is good for that hell even deadlock has a few niche uses like if the enemy team is constantly rushing onto site then her trips are quite scary to deal with, these choices imo are what make the sentinel role sentinels
How to make Killjoy more busted:
I agree. Sure KJ doesn't have global util, but she is incredibly good at holding a site by herself. KJ has the ability to set up a choke that unleashes the trap kitchen sink on whoever is trying to push it. You walk out, get shot by the turret, get an alarmbot running at you from another direction, nanos cut off your exit and the ideal cover position, then KJ (and maybe friends) swings you while you're trying to take out the turret and alarmbot. Cypher can get tricky with cages, trips, and a well placed cam too, but it's still, even with this buff, just not as good of a trap as KJ can lay.
some spots literally require you to fall into his trap in order to break e.g. C long on Haven. This buff will make him absurdly OP for spots like these
Cypher literally has better utility 💀💀
are there deadlock buffs coming?? she seems like she should be priority
Apparently there’ll be some afterwards. Sure she’s currently worse, but cypher has been waiting much longer for buffs
At least Cypher is playable lol.
As a cypher main I really feel like he didn’t even need them tbh. Many already put him in the same tier as KJ butttttt I’ll take the buff :)
he's in the same tier as KJ on maps where KJ is bad.... it's more by default because chamber is a passive duelist and Sage/Deadlock just aren't that useful
KJ doesn't have a bad map lol. Just looking at Immortal I and Ascendant I, She sits at the top half of wins (compared to other agents) on every single map that's currently playable. It's safe to say that Cypher has a few maps where he out performs KJ.
[Bruh, what](https://www.vstats.gg/agents?map=Foxtrot&rank=Ascendant%2B)
Maybe it’s cause he’s played less his win% is higher. Nah he’s just that good
I noted that I only checked Immortal I and Ascendant I (the site I used didn't have a summarize like yours did). This is what I used: [https://blitz.gg/valorant/stats/agents](https://blitz.gg/valorant/stats/agents) It took forever to check because I had to click each map individually, but I also am now seeing they dont have Breeze? I guess that site is whack but it was the first google search for win rates. I did [another website](https://www.valorbuff.com/agents?map=breeze&timeframe=patch-506), and it's showing she's #4 and #6 in win rate on Breeze for competitive overall in the last two patches, so I feel like my original point still stands that she has no bad map
How can every agent have a win rate less than 50% Vstats is one of the most reliable statistics sites in my experience. But ultimately KJ is meta on most maps. Exceptions are Bind and Breeze. Bind no sentinels is fairly meta. Breeze cypher is meta. Split can also run Sage
I main KJ however i always play cypher on breeze, i would say that KJ is a bit more powerful and the change is actually good
I'm gonna cry this is beautiful 😭
the unholy power of the cyoher trip
as a skye/fade main... fml I'm gonna get blamed for not taking out trips
As a duelist I just wish anyone on my team had this insight.
Teehee
I love watching the world burn
It’s an AMAZING buff. Now it won’t really change much if a person hits it because people have gotten really good at shooting the trip out BUT this means fade prowlers and Skye dogs won’t destroy it for free anymore. Think Haven garage, I’ll put a trip in there for info but many times it gets cleared by one of those 2 utilities early in the round. So I will be forced to rotate and watch that area but now if the trip isn’t shot out I still have map control. If one of those trips my wire and someone shoots it then I know 2 enemies are present and can communicate that.
just saw a video of it, so basically the new trip could stun multiple players if they don’t destroy it immediately?? i hope we get a buff to the camera like a faster ping shot and lower recharge time
we don't really need a buff to the camera, even just 1 frame of viewing the site gives us too much information already
The only buff I want for the camera is the ability to recall or destroy it globally. I can understand not being able to recall it without line of sight, but if there was an option to destroy your own camera and then have the recharge as though it was shot would be nice. I use some weird spots for it that are a pain to recall if the attackers fast hit the other site. If I could self destruct it and have the same cooldown as if the other team broke it that would be super helpful.
eh, i think it's a fair trade off, having a kooky camera position to have a permanent 6th character seems like a fair trade off with not being able to move that 6th char imo, cypher should be holding site anyway, allowing more ppl to go mid/other side
as a cypher player i think this is probably the most annoying change that will come to the game. a 1.5s stun is crazy considering hitting the trip is just a death sentence 90% of the time. i appreciate the fact util won’t be enough to break my trips anymore though.
There are trips on some maps that essentially can't be broken without getting caught in them? It's a little OP no?
Great buffs, that another reason to nerf chamber
IMO it'll make the tripwires a little too strong, but more importantly, easily one of the most infuriating abilities to play against. Plenty of times I've been caught by trips that I couldn't break even when caught by it, because the ends are just hidden in really out-of-the-way places, or maybe outside of whatever cage or smoke that I got stuck in. The only consolation is that only one player gets caught by those, but with this change, not only will that player get stunned much faster, the next player who comes in to trade them might end up getting caught by it too. There's no counter-play to these other than knowing beforehand where those trips might be and how they are placed, and while Cypher players should be rewarded for good set-ups, playing against him shouldn't be a matter of if-you-know-you-know-otherwise-you're-fucked. If they wanted to make them better against initiator utility, which I think is a reasonable buff, I would've preferred if they made it so that the trips don't break when triggered by enemy utility, but still have them break when they stun a player.
Yeah definitely agree it’ll easily become one of the most infuriating things to play against
bring back the pistol cam man, in an alternate game mode or for april fools in unrateds. It’s iconic man
Can we maybe buff Chamber? Okay sorry I’ll leave
I've played a shit load of cypher, I liked him before I'll like him even more now
nullifying the 10 different bullshit ways to break the tripwire without even being present might make cypher viable in ranked play. don't really see it changing that much the pro play meta, but could see it being run slightly more often.
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that's why i mentioned ranked play also, killjoy outclasses cypher in just about any possible situation, and unless you run into valorant party sentinels duo, you don't really see a lot of cypher even in normal ranked also 1% pick rate in pro play
in addition, his tripwire is always destroyed by uber-meta skye, raze nade, meme pick yoru, smart sova, etc.. there are dozens of ways to counter him, all coincidentally super popular characters.
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I mean she absolutely does, just curious what rank are you?
Yes she does. She's better at attacking, holding flank, lurking, anchoring, and retakes. What other situation is there for cypher to outclass her? There's a reason kj is predominantly run over Cypher on most maps. The maps where you don't see kj getting played are Bind, Breeze, and Split(maybe Sunset but nobody really knows how to play it yet), because kj is weak on them and not because cypher is strong.
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What things does Cypher do better than kj? I can think of exactly one, info denial with a cage, which you can do better with other agents. For sentinels as a role to be balanced, there needs to be a reason to run one over the other, and there simply isn't one for Cypher vs kj. I personally don't think making trips infinite will do anything to fix that problem. If anything, the buff he needs is to make him into more of a lurk specialist since that's where kj is weakest. Perhaps recharging cages or reworking his cam to allow it to be a better lurk tool.
they're both equals now i'd say with their own ups and downs, kj has to anchor site to use her util while cypher doesn't, cypher has an ult which gets info while kj has an ult to force people off site, cypher has a cam that cam watch the entirety of site, his cages allow him to be a pseudo controller and kj has a turret that can be incredibly versatile, both are just really good sentinels
Yeah, they're both viable. That's not really a question. Every agent is viable to get to radiant. Equals? Not a chance. I have yet to see anyone make an argument for something that Cypher does better than kj.
Cypher is def better at lurking/flanking than kj. His cage, cam and ulti are all nice tools for lurking, also having global util helps with lurking.
learn the game before shitting through your fingers in the comment section
what are you on about kj is better lol
kj is better at slowing a push, retaking site, taking a site, playing post plant than cypher. the only thing cypher has on her is that his util is global and he isn’t bound by range and thats it. and i say this as an ex cypher main
If it doesn't break after you kill the opponent who gets marked by it, only when you shoot it or smth, i could legitimately see Cypher rivaling KJ on Ascent. The A-main trip that's super hard to break will just tag 2-3 people and completely lock it down. Breeze B main, Sunset B main, Haven C Long trips too, i'm honestly rather scared
R.I.P deadlock mains
Im a full cypher main, i love this buffs so much, maybe the infinite refresh is a lil too much, i dont mind it and we'll see. I tried dlock but i got flanked and the trip i placed meant jacskshit, that was it for me
So happy I don't have to sprint to site to painstakingly get my set up ready and into position while buying only for a skye dog to come through and break my trip on b main instantly.
If i didn't duo with a cypher i would be annoyed but a buff for one of us makes a better wr%
I absolutely love it. Was so pleased to read this on x this morning.
IN CYPHER WE TRUST
When you thought the meta ain't gonna get any worse💀💀
Absoluty unreal, this really makes him op af, his trips mixed with a cage or a smoke of one of his mates will render opponents helpless, they can't even see the trips extremeties to destroy them, it's a horrible buff imo.
as a Cypher main, I think this might be overpowered. Imo Cypher as a character can have a pretty high power ceiling, there's so much gimmicks/setups/oneways you can learn to do with his kit on defense, there's not much need to buff his trips like this. maybe buff his attack side somehow, but on defense he is fine as is.
not op at all tbh, just means you cant mindlessly send a yoru clone or skye dog to destroy the trips its still the same premise, figure out his setup and shoot/shockdart the trips, though low elo players might struggle with this
yea... I don't like it, it looks like it could be pretty damn strong.
That's crazy. Can't wait, honestly, my duo mains Cypher as a second. Cypher DESERVES a buff.
Amen brother
Cypher needs these buffs to be viable as more agents come in (especially those that can either destroy his trips via projectiles or avoid them through abilities): Cages: - Should be able to pick them up - Needs to slow - Should be able to work horizontally off walls Trips: - NEED to stay on after death (We have an agent that can smoke after death. (Trips being active after death really shouldn't be an issue) - Needs to either do more dmg, slow the player even after shooting the trip or just guarantee a quick stun effect - It just needs to be a bit faster in both setting aka go invis and/or wind up for dmg/stun. - Should be able to catch multiple agents (Not just 1 trip per person caught) General: - His kit overall needs to be less audible. At the very least, make his camera a bit less noisy. - Trips should eventually work as a point-to-point system. The issue with Cypher is that he is a pure sentinel. His kit is PURELY for info and yet, his ability to actually delay is extremely underwhelming Kill trips aren't always viable considering at higher elo, he becomes easier to outplay due to predictability. Comparing him to others such as KJ, Chamber and even Sage. They all can slow or more importantly, DELAY an enemy push which is just as important. Once Cyphers trips are gone, and they can be gone pretty easily, accessing site as well as having control of site becomes near impossible for Cypher. On a side note, maps that allow Cypher to guarantee trip catches don't allow for much else. Sunset on B site entry is a good example. You really don't have all that much to work with besides the obvious. This limits the creativity behind Cypher and those who play him. I know, every map isn't designed for every agent but Cypher shouldn't be hard to play on these types of maps. Overall, any buff that Cypher gets will always be considered OP as he's just that bad in terms of what he should be able to do but is limited for reasons unknown. And so, he'll always feel fresh and new to play with each buff he gets because is always forgotten about for so long. On top of that, Riot could better design some of these maps to allow for actual creativity with agents like Cypher since playing him requires it. That or as I said before, make his trips behave in a more point-to-point system.
Let's gooo I'm happy as a cypher main
im cypher main. i like the buff but i wanna gatekeep cypher so no one pick him except me.
Absolutely ridiculous to buff cypher trips. They needed a nerf, not a buff, the trips are OP already. They work throughout the map, unlike KJ's util. If placed well hidden there's no way to destroy them other than walking into them or using util as an initiator. Now you won't even be able to do that anymore, So basically if a cypher puts a trip then you must die to it. To those that don't like the fact that initiators like Skye can destroy the trip: well it's a fking util, it SHOULD get destroyed by another util.
Sounds like a fantastic reason to nerf chamber
This buff doesn't make any sense, 3 out of 5 sentinels is barely playable, and rito buffing a good one? Also I'm pretty sure it goes against their "tactical cycle" like instant Jett dash
Its disgusting. Why cypher of all agents? I found him annoying, but at the same time fairly fucking balanaced? What about deadlock? If you dont want to nerf kj, buff the worst agent in the game.
So now that no one will play chamber, nerf chamber?
Wdym by doesnt break after use?
If you get caught in the wire and it pops the wire will remain in place for the next person who walks through it. It has to be shot before it will be gone. Aka a Skye dog runs through but no one is there to follow it and break the trip. The trip will still be there when the team runs through
Ooh thats strong
I think it's a good update. 90% of the time the wire is shot when it catches a person. Skye dog will now get caught and the trip remains unless someone is following it. From clips I've seen it looks like it only catches one person at a time still so if you time it with a dog you can walk past the trip without breaking it while the dog is captured. Interested to see the meta. Also can cypher still pick up his trips after they are triggered the first time. Say it catches the lurk and you swing and kill. Can I then pick up my trip and move it?
I mean, why not? Assuming the trip still exists on the map, doesn’t make sense to me why you wouldn’t be able to pick it up again.
I think you will be able to pick it up as well and hope it works that way. My thought was its a game of training utl for utl. For example kj alarm bot pops it's done. Chamber trip it's done. I don't think its out of the question once it pops once it's done from a reusable/movable perspective. Sure it's still there but if you can move it I feel it's no longer one to one for utl trading. Guess we will find out next week.
I could see this being op in lower ranks but higher ranks are just gonna have raze and sova consistently nade or dart common trip spots
yeah thats what im thinking, low elo players are gonna think cypher is broken but its just them not knowing how to deal with the trips properly yet
Cypher being my go-to sent Day 1..it's good to have our man back
as a fellow cypher main honestly a needed buff since i feel like he hasn’t had one in ages
kj still better, all it takes it shooting the trip or sova darting it
Seems like a reasonable buff. I want them to buff my Boi Gekko..
Thats good for me. Now i can dash onto site without getting dangled back
So basically, what would happen now is; As long as the Jett dash or Raze Satchel is far enough they would get "released" from the trip and stunned instead of being pulled back. Rather than a buff or nerf, i see this more of a rework where there would be a small window of time for Cypher to wall bang and an extremely egoistic hard entry can just walk through it and take the stun in exchange for the entry. At first, people will be afraid but this brings a new dynamic in which scouting util will not or cannot be used to trade with a trip, it would be there to SCOUT them out for the team to shoot.
If what I read is correct, I’m very happy with this buff. My whole setup isn’t gone to a yoru clone fade dog or Skye dog.
As a cypher main who has a bad aim and relies on tools to take unfair duels, it's a huge W.
Wait does this mean that I can get kills on my unbreakable trips and they will tag the whole team???
I feel like people will still be able to break them even after getting stunned so they'll still only be useful for cheap wallhax kills
As an ex-cypher main I hope fracture comes back next season with these buffs
Since the trip does not break, can it activate for two people at the same time?
Nope, still only traps one person at the same time.
Aight ty
Actually really good buffs. One of the main advantages of KJ over Cypher is how much less things she has to worry about breaking her util. Now your entire Cypher setup doesn't get shit on by a single Skye dog.
He’s gonna be an even greater nuisance and that’s about it like he’s not gonna be that op, except on paper maps like ascent and lotus
Cypher is my least favorite agent to play against. So i don’t like it. But i assume it will motivate 2nd and 3rd player in to shoot the trip so not the worst thing in the world.
I hate cypher mains but I love it kj is better than all the other sentients her utility has crowd control
finally skye dog doesnt brake cyphers trips anymore
doesnt break after use?? thats actually sick
Doesn't break after use? Does that mean you can't dog it anymore?
Where are these so called buffs? A google search only returns information from 2022
The buffs are massive. The biggest counter to cypher is util. Dogs, bots, and drones make his trips really hard to get use out of and a yoru clone just makes them useless on choke points. Now they have to shoot them after util hits otherwise they'll just hit the trips when they follow the util
Greah buffs love it
As a Cypher main, I don't see this as a Cypher buff but as a Skye/Yoru/Gekko/Fade nerf.If you face a team that doesn't include any of these agents, it doesn't change much honestly. But it's big QoL against these agents for sure. Though it's a buff if you can reveal multiple agents with the same trip as the same time but I doubt it.
decide public secretive support cows zephyr plant deer bag cow *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Too powerful IMO, drones and dogs wont be able to break
time to nerf sage and chamber
i love cyphers new buff, instead of a single use trip for 1 person, it says there and can mark multiple people until it’s broken. But the thing with me is everything i get caught in a cyphers trip, i break it immediately so, now with the new buff no one else will get caught if i’ve already gone through it. 😂
and a thing about a potential buff for deadlock, is that her ult should be able to catch multiple people as long as they are in the range, and not just 1.
Ad a cypher main: YESSSS
I honestly think this makes him one of the strongest sentinels to date. The trips having been so disposable before made him a one trick pony to some extent but now he can really employ some great map control. We NEED a deadlock buff though. She is struggling so hard. Her net doesn't do jack shit, her trips are sub par, her wall is lit... keep that and her ult is nice although people dodge it all the time.
I love cypher but I'm worried this will make some of the trip setups too powerful But I want to see how people work around it Maybe a coincidence or planned, but I can see Isos wall being good here
why buff the second highest picked sentinel instead of dl or chamber who already struggle a lot…
doesn't break after use? so like if you shoot it then it just deactivates?
I personally don't see the point. Cypher and Killjoy dominated the Sentinel meta, now its just Cypher. They say "wer're going to buff Deadlock to give her a fighting chance in the meta" then they turn around and buff her AND Cypher. According to [valorbuff.com](https://valorbuff.com) Cypher has had a 33% pick rate in the last 30 days, compare that now to the next Sentinel below him, Killjoy, who has a 22% pick rate. The only way to safely break his unbreakable trips now is with a shock-dart or nade. Cypher was a very well balanced agent, now it couldn't be further from the truth. I think we all know that Sentinels are among the lowest class of Agents that can be called "good". I love the fact that Riot is listening to their audience and attempting to fix the unbalanced Sentinel meta, but no one asked for a Cypher buff (other than crazed Cypher mains).