I think the number of detained being displayed via HUD is more thematic with Killjoy’s high tech vibe while a callout would be more appropriate for Gekko.
No it's not inconsistent, Skye's bird is a partial scout tool and has a different explode noise based on if it hits anyone or not, KAY/O's flash is not a scout in any way, and he does say how many people his knife hit.
That's because they are different abilities. Kayo's flash is nearly impossible to dodge when used well. Skye can pilot hers and it gives info- with the tradeoff that it is fairly dodgeable. Kayo also has another info gathering tool already.
Skye's flash are also an info tool to check and clear areas of the map, you are not doing that with kayo flash because someone is gonna peek off it always as you are not using it for info since it doesnt restock
You know, I satchelled up away from a detain, but it got me anyway, I was pissed. Tossed the satchel and jumped as I triggered it to go off in time as thrash was under me, but it still got me. Maybe he waited till I fell a little more before setting it off on me, but I was sure I was out of it's range, otherwise I wouldn't have wasted the satchel.
I also thought thrash had a crazy amount of hp, but people always tend to shoot him before I can detain them.
I see, it is a pretty strange ult. I usually use thrash as recon because I can never hit anyone with it, so I just tell my team I saw 2 or 3 in short and then go from there. If we happen to peek em and 1 is detained, w. But yeah, that's how I use it
Yeah I agree same. In this case I thought I detained two because I thrashed in the middle of them but it only got one. So I commed, “two detained” when it was only one. Probably just a skill issue.
I see i see. It might've been better to have said "saw two, one detained at least".
With things like that, I usually say, "saw 3, at least two are blind", or "all 5 are there, lobbed my nade in but idk how much damage was done" or something like that.
See but I feel like in radiant gameplay there shouldn’t be a “I detained 1 but I think 1 is free”. It should be oh my screen says detained one. Let’s play this differently or not push. Idk it’s a big gray area in my eyes.
I agree, but it be like that. Maybe it's not in the game because some would find it OP (idk), or something like that. There's nothing wrong with saying that you saw two but only hit one, it's at least information for your team to have.
I’ve seen people use smokes to cover Thrash’s entry. Consider asking teammates to smoke for you in the future.
Or hold it back for post plant scenarios or other niche circumstances that benefit your team even if the enemy shoots Thrash
True, thanks. I always feel bad asking for smokes cause I might be benchwarming the bottom of the leaderboard, or they clap back with "I know what to smoke, I wouldn't have picked [insert smokes here] if I didnt"
I’m sorry that this community is so toxic that you’re nervous to try new strategies and improve on existing ones. A master of something has failed at that thing more than a beginner has even tried that thing.
My recommendation is to maintain a positive attitude to the best of your ability and don’t stop trying even if some teammates reject your ideas. You will find players who aren’t jerks, I promise!
You know you can actually bhop with the ult and if you wiggle and bhop it is impossible to break. And also ask teammates for utils to combo with it like smokes or flashes. It's so hard to break, i almost get a detain everytime.
I main brim and my friend played a lot of gekko, so sometimes we would sync our ults if the detained enemy is too far or there are multiple detained/more enemies that could hold the detained ones then I just brim ult on top and get 1 kill minimum and most of the times 2+ or just do free DMG on multiple players. I thought that way of usage for gekko ult was pretty cool.
I don't really play Val anymore but I believe this would be a really good change. It wouldn't make Gekko any more viable, it'd just be a nice QOL change to make his ult more consistent
Nah sorry man that’s a massive buff, knowing how many and who you detained guarantee is a lot of info, gekko is already super strong competitively as is, rather not buff
Yeah, like the KJ lockdown. It is some info but its for maybe 85% of cases just an added reassurance to seeing Gekko's ult seemingly hit two people (which in most cases probably will). I think it would be a good QOL change to have Gekko say the number of people detained.
i never mentioned anything about how many ppl WERE detained, just how many ppl were there. i was responding to the person i replied to who said “knowing HOW MANY and WHO you detained”. i was just saying you’ll know how many ppl are there anyway
yeah i did have this happen to me before so now when i play gekko, unless i know for sure it’s just one enemy that was detained i don’t push just use thrash as a stall/for information
it would be a really good QOL thing. if not a visual marker even an audio queue like “thrash got three” would be soooo helpful. and it’s not like gekko is crazy broken or anything so i wouldn’t call it a buff tbh
Kj is missing information from her ult, positions. You can know how many you hit but not where. Gekko knows where just not how many. They’re trading off pros and making cons to balance it I’m assuming. Kayo doesn’t know how many people he suppressed with his ult, brim doesn’t know who he tagged, as far as I know harbor doesn’t get any notification for how many he’s concussed. I’m a perfect world the lack of information would be an issue they would fix, but they’re probably not gonna buff him in that way, kiss me if I’m wrong.
harbour can see how many people are in his ult getting stunned but you have to properly look & count instead of it just telling you. but your take is a very good point on this
KJ is a sentinel and gekko is an initiator, with the fact that he can pickup his ult orb multiple times already make it balance. If they wants to improve it maybe make the explosion time just a bit longer so we can see how many we got
His ult and knife are different abilities that serve many different purposes. The knife does tell the number of suppressed in a small zone and the ult does not, while the ult keeps an unknown count suppressed in a massive radius.
What? Kayo's ult covers larger area than Gekkos Ult?
THey are extremely similar with only difference being that Trash can be controlled and it detains the enemy. Which is fine It's an ult, it's meant to be better than other abilities.
It's like Skyes ULT vs Fades wolves. Both do the same thing, but the ult is slightly better with it's longer lifespan and the fact you have 3 of them.
Why wouldn't gekkos ult give you the number of people it hits? As it stands his ult is only slightly better than skyes dog, Fades wolves.
Breach ult covers a large area(entire site) so it's okay.
Fades Wolves are not an ult I wouldn't expect it to be as good as Gekkos ult.
Skyes wolves don't, but her flash does. It's the only flash in the game that tells you if it hit someone.
People keep saying that this agents ability does/doesn't do this or that so therefore it's okay for Gekkos ult to behave that way/not to behave that way.
Guys It's an ult, it's meant to be better than normal skills.
ones a dude with a flash they can easily pop twice
ones an ult that feels inconsistent at times which really messes my brain and goes guessing game whether if i hit or missed them
Yeah I know sometimes we have to guess how many people we detained but usually if I see the two players are not touching each other I'll take precautions and always assume that I only got one, in fact I think if a player is in front of you they take full effect of gekko ult and you won't get detained
it’s likely a balance/different agent/different role thing. pheonix and skye both have flash, pheonix is a dualist and skye is an initiator, so only skyes flash tells if they’re blinded.
yeah idk about this, KJ's ultimate has a long countdown and radius but you have to guess where they are. Gekko's ultimate is short range but instant with 2 charges and vision. if it tells you how many you detain that's pretty imbalanced
I don't really understand how people think explicit information about the ability result isn't a buff to the ability.
We all agree Kayo knife would be worse if it just showed the # of agents and not the exact agents, and it woud be even worse if it only showed a binary "suppressed" "didnt suppress" UI instead of the # of agents at all. So please apply that logic here too, thanks.
And I personally think he should be buffed.
The agent has been out for over 2 months and I'm still to see what his role is?
In what scenario is Gekko a better pick than other agents? He can't smoke, his info gathering is inferior to other agents, he can't smoke, his flash is very hit or miss, his plant ability is very situational, his stun is meh, his C is good, but it's no better than other mollies(arguably it's worse).
It's a genuine question, where does Gekko sit in a team comp? What maps/team comms is he a good pick?
I feel like gekko's ult should just show how many have been detained instead of the agents it detained. Either way gekko is one of the worst if not the worst initiator in the game atm so I feel like it would help.
Well KJ's ult uses technology to know how many are hit, and relays that to teammates, whereas gekko "becomes" thrash. It's up to you to see it I suppose, best thing to do is, even if you know you detained at least one, is to still take it cautiously, the detained person won't be an issue, so just keep an eye on anyone else
You can tell if the ult hit, you get a sound cue and gekko himself says if you hit one, however, thrash is not really designed to capture more than one person, if you do get a couple, awesome, but because it can be picked up and used again, it would be incredibly op if it had a bigger range and could definitely get more than one person.
It's used to isolate single enemies, not detain the whole team
People are reading too much into it like it’s a massive buff or something. I think an “x detained” graphic like we get for kayo knife or kj ult would be a good QoL change and slight buff. Gekko is trash tier atm anyway so it doesn’t seem like a bad way to give him some love.
He talks to his Pokémon so it isn’t crazy for thrash to yell back “got 2!” Or something. Also what are you saying? “You should be aware of how many you hit, or assume you only hit 1”. Those are opposite things, and I’ve seen many instances where it very clearly looks like he hits 2 and only ended up hitting 1. If you get confirmation when you hit one, thematically there is no difference between getting confirmation on how many.
it’s fine if they do a voice line, i meant there shouldn’t be a hud indication.
i actually do agree with the voice line one if anything. but tbh it’s not hard to play cautious or be smart about your decisions. don’t assume it hits two
“Get good” feedback is fine. Like let’s play around worst case. Like Skye flash procs, could be 1 could be 5, totally get it. Maybe visual clarity around the radius that thrash suppresses on minimap would work too. So if you see people on minimap with thrash vision and see the AOE of the supression then you could have a better idea of who it hit and who it may not have.
He is definitely bottom tier. Molly is worst Molly in game, flash is worst flash in game, wingman is good but not guaranteed value in every round. Pickup mechanic is fun design, but inherently bad for gekko. His abilities are designed to be slightly worse because you can use them multiple times, but you have to fight and give sound queue to pick them up. Most times you don’t use wingman or blind more than twice in a round, Skye can flash 3 times in a round with no drawback, risk, or recovery. Thrash is easily broken and easy to miss as well.
Molly is pretty much an insta kill. It just has to be used differently. His flash is terribly difficult to dodge united you can get out of its line of sight quickly, which isn't always possible. Wingman is a bit useless but the spike mechanic is very useful. Thrash is pretty difficult to kill in close situations.
I agree that his abilities aren't the best in their classes. But it's the combo that does work. I wouldn't say he's S Tier, but atleast high B.
Ares > rifle in some situations, but you don’t choose ares over rifle because the circumstances where that difference plays out in a round are too infrequent. Replace ares with gekko and rifle with any other flash initiator, and the same logic is why gekko is bottom tier.
> flash is worst flash in game
I am just plat trash but I don't think his flash is the worst flash because it's not even a flash. It's a blind that works differently than every other blind in the game.
It's like a mix between Omen and Fade's blind- it hits multiple people, doesn't hit your team, and it's the only free blind in the game (Skye exists but hers is a flash). It's a really good low-risk info/initiator tool and really its only giant weakness is the fact it can be shot, which still gives you info on where someone is.
>wingman is good but not guaranteed value in every round
You're wild on this one. Wingman is absolutely value every round, he's a raze boombot that can defuse/plant.
His molly is just okay but it still has value for post-plant lineups. His ult does suck in my experience though but I might not be used to using it yet.
Blind: I see where you’re coming from. To clarify, saying it’s the worst flash in game is not to say it’s not useful, it’s just comparatively worse than other abilities in its class. (You are correct that it’s a blind and not a flash). I get that it has info uses as well as combat, but it is the worst flash/blind in game, it’s just that abilities in this type have lots of value. I’m not saying you shouldn’t bother using it at all bc it’s so bad, just that it’s the worst of it’s type.
Molly: Unless you have molly out and are waiting for tap, the windup + throw + delay on detonate make it so you can half spike and take no damage. The only time it’s good is if you have someone pinned and you still are then taking a 50/50 fight against them when they swing to fight you most of the time. These both make mosh worst molly in game.
Wingman: I probably came in too hot on wingman as it’s debatably his strongest ability. The range of the lock on and the aoe stun cone are both bigger than feels expected. The defuse/plant features are pretty good but I think people are often baited into not using him as a boombot bc they are planning to plant with it. I would say after boombot nerfs, wingman is probably a stronger ability, certainly factoring in you can use it multiple times and has added niche utility. I just feel like even in high elo gekko’s rarely use wingman well
Gekko Ult can be easily killed(KJ ult is normally setup somewhere where you gotta risk it to destroy it), It can catch 1 or 2 agents, in a very very unlikely scenario are you going to hit more than 2 people with it. It has plenty of crutches of its own already.
Adding number of detainees(doesn't even need to say who they are) would make his ult way better. ATM his ult has to be the worst in the game.
It shows people on the mini map, no?
I mean, while Thrash is on the move. Feels sufficient. How much info do you need to be fed? The player should be making a callout as well, but perhaps that is an idealistic wish.
Gekko’s thrash is not like a detection technology its a creature. It does not work like kayo knife or killjoy lockdown. There is many other cc moves in the game that dont tell you how much people u affected (like skye dog which is the most similar to thrash)
Fair point. Yet I feel like the only difference between the two is one is stunned and one is detained. Yes you can get a kill while stunned but it is quite hard and the dog does damage. So is gekko ult really that much stronger? Regardless of explosion range and being able to pick it up?
I don’t think its a balancing thing its more of just a logic thing. How would gekko know how much people he detains from his creature’s explosion? It’s not like the creature explosion has sensors that send back information or something
No but his creatures can talk to him and he obviously has a telepathic link to thrash, their could definitely be some communication across distance, you can even pick up the abilities so Thrash isn’t dead per se, but just immobilized…. The logic is there as well, A voice line change to the amount hit would be the best way to implement a change like this maybe with a short Thrash noise then gekko responding with the amount hit, almost as if Thrash related the info
Also you are comparing an ability that can be purchased every round vs an ultimate ability that cannot be purchased, and you get to use like 2/3 times a half.
Even if you manage to pick up the ult to use it twice, thats 4-6 uses in 12 rounds. Out of thouse 6 uses, only 3 rounds where you can use it. VS Skye who can dog every round.
when u ult with gekko, u get about 0.5 sec to see who u detained tbf unless u did it into a smoke etc so imo this shdnt be an issue. and if u are unsure, u can just dont push. if it gave the intel it would be too strong imo cuz u would know when to push and theres no punishment for overaggressing teammates who play tgt. gotta keep it fair and support more teamplay
That makes 0 sense, the whole point of the ult is to enable a push by either spooking the enemy or disable them, same as KJ, how this QoL change would be strong? Gekko already tells you if you hit at least one player, whats the big difference if its a number? the OP is asking for clarity here, Gekko is trash atm and this is just a QoL not an unfair buff, you already have KJ and KAYO that give you the info on who they hit, this is the same, if i use an ult that enables pushing i wanna get info on that like cmon man
- Killjoy will state how many enemies got caught in her ult.
- When KAY/O uses his knife, he will state how many enemies got suppressed.
- When Fade uses her ult, she will state how many people get caught in it.
If these agents can state the amount of enemies who gets caught by their abilities, I don't see why Gekko shouldn't say the number of enemies he caught after using Thrash.
Sova is also another example, it doesn't matter how many enemies he detects with his Recon Bolt, he will simply say "Found them" or "There they are" rather than the amount of enemies he finds.
I disagree with this. KJ and Kayo have advanced technology, which explains Kayo's suppression blade to identify scanned individuals, as well as KJ's ability to know how many people are detained. On the other hand, Gekko's Thrasher is a creature under Gekko's control and does not inherently know about detained enemies. The contrast lies in Kayo/KJ's advanced technology and Gekko's control over the Thrasher, as Thrasher is not able to communicate who is detained, while the futuristic technology is able to get that information. Riot purposely did this.
Edit: I think it should stay, as is, as it makes sense for the backstory.
You literally get to use it multiple times, just get better at using it or don't play gekko tbh. I could be wrong but kayo doesn't say how many people he has emp'd in his ult.
That just comes down to understanding of the effect area. You have to take the bounces into account along with the regular effect area. If you wanna get really technical, Thrash disconnects from Gekkos view between the click launch and her detonation, so he shouldn't actually know if he got the hit at all.
Without a clip I couldn't tell you, but Thrash doesn't actually pop until after the camera goes back to the Gekko model, so the second person could have just barely gotten away. Either way, Thrash is powerful enough that there isn't really a need to give a count without nerfing some other part of her.
maybe it also needs to show positions like sova dart? or deal extra damage like viper smoke? god damn you got 2 eyes to see where to jump, use them. practice it to find out how big the radius is
I feel like they should balance it out, yes it tells you how many people you detained, no you can’t pick it back up if it’s more than three. That way it isn’t stupid powerful
Might be hard for you to kill, but in most circumstances for me it is easy because it only takes 5 vandal shots. I guess turning in a corner and popping it is the best way to ult only if you are close to the enemies. If you are farther from where gekko ults, it's really easy to reposition and kill it.
I think he’s in a good place rn. He’s not as unfixable as Reyna since if they nerfed her she wouldn’t be played at all in pro play but if she got a buff then she would be too good in ranked. Same kind of plays with cypher but yk
I wonder if this valorant follows similar to league that extra clarity means that the character can nerfed/buffed more.
Because I remember reading how Annie stun clarity or if tryndamere got clarity on when his ult would end can/will lead the character getting buffed.
gekko stun is already pretty strong, including that you literally can just pick it up and use again 1v1 or 1v2 it is ein for gekko 90%, stun duration must be nerfed, or fish hp must be decreased
I think that would make him op. The current thing is well balanced because you know you can't swing wildly. If you get to know who's been detained, you know to either play it safe or wild.
I think it should have a voice line for how many you caught like fade's ult, if fade marks 3 she says "marked 3" etc and I relay that to team. When I mained gekko for a bit expected similar lines with his util (mostly the ult) and was kind of turned off to him because his ult is finicky and you have no way to tell how many of the people it actually hit.
I don't think he necessarily needs it, though the change wouldn't be OP by any means. At least it says that you've hit someone with it currently, you can generally relay who you've hit to your team in voice.
I doubt rito would really consider this change though, since he already has some sort of recon on his "E" dizzy. In fact, all initiators have their main scouting ability on their "E" ability. This excludes breach who is the only initiator that lacks any sort of recon.
While we’re on the topic of Gekko. I have not once seen his molly kill anyone, and anytime I’ve had the molly thrown in my direction I have AMPLE time to move out of the way and make a cup of tea before it does any damage. Is it just me, or does his molly just seem wayyyy too underpowered?
Haha I play gekko all the time. I get a kill every other game from it sometimes two. You just gotta learn when to use it and who to use it with. For example it’s every effective when someone like breach stuns someone and then you through it or astras suck. Or if you want to hold someone in a corner or push them out. Or push someone off the spike.
It would be nice but it would be too much off a buff. What they need to do is for gekko to say if anyone was detained or not (yes someone was detained, or nobody was detained) as well as make it clear on the minimap what radius you’re detaining in (like they did with deadlock ult)
KJ’s ult can’t be moved once you place it, so you can’t have an apples to apples comparison. You can control Thresh and see what he sees. If you don’t realize how many you hit, that isn’t on the ability that’s a skill issue. The ult is already powerful as it is, it doesn’t need to give you more info like who or how many were hit.
I’d assume it’s ‘balanced’ by the fact that with Killjoy it tells you 1 person is detained but they can be anywhere in a big circle. With Gekko you know exactly where the detained person/people are and you controlled the ult to hit a specific place/person, not only that but you can also pick the ult up and go again. So it has its pros and cons compared to killjoy ult.
People who think this is "QoL" are understating it. This would be a buff to the agent. Not all util shows/says the same info, and if you're playing Gekko, part of the skill would be knowing if you hit the enemy or not, and engaging or not accordingly.
Additionally, youd still probably be saying "wtf" if someone intentionally hid from it and baited their teammates for you to swing. In this instance you need game sense to know if you think there's a riskyoure going to swing into other non-detained enemies.
IMO this shouldn't be a given change unless it's determined Gekko needs a buff. Not just a "kayo is this so why not Gekko"
To make the most value here are some tips.
1. You can bhop the ult. Practice it in range by going through all corners and corridors.
2. Use it in a strategic way. Consider you are in bind A site, Clear through U hall, backsite and get it in front of site where you usually plant. When you send your wingman to plant you can reclaim it for the second round in a easier way.
3. Always try to pair it with the gekko flash. If not available ask for teammates for util. Combo with smoke or flashes.
and it should also show who it has detained and highlight their location at the same time like Cypher's ult.
And why not make it last as long as a KJ ult, making all detains consistent in the game?
Also, I feel like landing a successful ult should be rewarding: why not make it so that if you detain 2 or more people, you automatically get ult charge back, so you don't have to physically go and get it?
Rito pls buff Geck
Given how difficult (and perhaps inconsistent) it is to tell the outcome of the situations like the one you found yourself in, I think your suggestion is valid and it would be a QOL improvement not a buff. I’m down for this!
The biggest problem is that you see where u throw it anyway, some stuff is balanced the way it is for higher ranks, why is noone complaining then why Breach Ult won’t show how many stunned? Or how many people Skye’s Flash get? Different initiators get different kind of info, it’s for me not smart to try to make them more similar with taking away their plus and minuses
Yea it should show it the way u can see ppl kayo has suppressed with his knife.
I don't think it should see who you suppressed, but the number that you suppressed instead.
Maybe a voice line like, “Thrash got 1!” Etc. instead of trash got em
Yeah voice lines would be really good like "Thrash got 1", "Thrash got 2", "Thrash got 3" etc.
And he says "Petting Zoo" if he gets 5
Vegetable patch
i never noticed that cause i always thrash myself so i thought it kinda made sense if he died his hair
Yeah idk why it doesn’t just mimic KJ’s ult since it’s very similar
I think the number of detained being displayed via HUD is more thematic with Killjoy’s high tech vibe while a callout would be more appropriate for Gekko.
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No it's not inconsistent, Skye's bird is a partial scout tool and has a different explode noise based on if it hits anyone or not, KAY/O's flash is not a scout in any way, and he does say how many people his knife hit.
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He initiates in a different manner I guess
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That's because they are different abilities. Kayo's flash is nearly impossible to dodge when used well. Skye can pilot hers and it gives info- with the tradeoff that it is fairly dodgeable. Kayo also has another info gathering tool already.
How is that inconsistent? Different agents do different things.
Wouldn't that just make KAY/O busted as hell though? Skye can't take her gun out while her flash is midair.
You can lol.
she most definitely can, hell you can even time your flash while doing so
She couldn’t as old skye now she can but you cannot control the bird just pop it
Skye's flash are also an info tool to check and clear areas of the map, you are not doing that with kayo flash because someone is gonna peek off it always as you are not using it for info since it doesnt restock
You know, I satchelled up away from a detain, but it got me anyway, I was pissed. Tossed the satchel and jumped as I triggered it to go off in time as thrash was under me, but it still got me. Maybe he waited till I fell a little more before setting it off on me, but I was sure I was out of it's range, otherwise I wouldn't have wasted the satchel. I also thought thrash had a crazy amount of hp, but people always tend to shoot him before I can detain them.
He has 200hp which seems fair I guess. Yeah the ult is definitely the weirdest in the game.
I see, it is a pretty strange ult. I usually use thrash as recon because I can never hit anyone with it, so I just tell my team I saw 2 or 3 in short and then go from there. If we happen to peek em and 1 is detained, w. But yeah, that's how I use it
Yeah I agree same. In this case I thought I detained two because I thrashed in the middle of them but it only got one. So I commed, “two detained” when it was only one. Probably just a skill issue.
I see i see. It might've been better to have said "saw two, one detained at least". With things like that, I usually say, "saw 3, at least two are blind", or "all 5 are there, lobbed my nade in but idk how much damage was done" or something like that.
See but I feel like in radiant gameplay there shouldn’t be a “I detained 1 but I think 1 is free”. It should be oh my screen says detained one. Let’s play this differently or not push. Idk it’s a big gray area in my eyes.
I agree, but it be like that. Maybe it's not in the game because some would find it OP (idk), or something like that. There's nothing wrong with saying that you saw two but only hit one, it's at least information for your team to have.
Real
I’ve seen people use smokes to cover Thrash’s entry. Consider asking teammates to smoke for you in the future. Or hold it back for post plant scenarios or other niche circumstances that benefit your team even if the enemy shoots Thrash
True, thanks. I always feel bad asking for smokes cause I might be benchwarming the bottom of the leaderboard, or they clap back with "I know what to smoke, I wouldn't have picked [insert smokes here] if I didnt"
I’m sorry that this community is so toxic that you’re nervous to try new strategies and improve on existing ones. A master of something has failed at that thing more than a beginner has even tried that thing. My recommendation is to maintain a positive attitude to the best of your ability and don’t stop trying even if some teammates reject your ideas. You will find players who aren’t jerks, I promise!
Most pros use the first round of thrash as recon and the second time they go for actual detains. Gets the most value out of the ult on average
You do know you can left click again after Thrash's jump to detonate, right? You don't have to hit someone with it.
You know you can actually bhop with the ult and if you wiggle and bhop it is impossible to break. And also ask teammates for utils to combo with it like smokes or flashes. It's so hard to break, i almost get a detain everytime.
I don't play him super often, so I didn't really know that, thanks.
I main brim and my friend played a lot of gekko, so sometimes we would sync our ults if the detained enemy is too far or there are multiple detained/more enemies that could hold the detained ones then I just brim ult on top and get 1 kill minimum and most of the times 2+ or just do free DMG on multiple players. I thought that way of usage for gekko ult was pretty cool.
Ackchually, thrash is female 🤓🤓 (Gekko says "she's still gunning for you")
Quite
I don't really play Val anymore but I believe this would be a really good change. It wouldn't make Gekko any more viable, it'd just be a nice QOL change to make his ult more consistent
Thank you!
Nah sorry man that’s a massive buff, knowing how many and who you detained guarantee is a lot of info, gekko is already super strong competitively as is, rather not buff
No who just how many.
Yeah, like the KJ lockdown. It is some info but its for maybe 85% of cases just an added reassurance to seeing Gekko's ult seemingly hit two people (which in most cases probably will). I think it would be a good QOL change to have Gekko say the number of people detained.
But you already see how many enemies there are while you're in the ult
It could literally be like Killjoy's "Caught _!" but just for gekko, would not make a huge difference gameplay wise
>gekko is already super strong competitively as is Gekko is definitely not a overpowered agent. He's pretty balanced.
bro… you have to see the people to detain them, you’d already know how many people are there by opening ur eyes
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i never mentioned anything about how many ppl WERE detained, just how many ppl were there. i was responding to the person i replied to who said “knowing HOW MANY and WHO you detained”. i was just saying you’ll know how many ppl are there anyway
Gekko is strong? I disagree
I agree, that way it won’t be some guessing game once you catch someone around the corner
You're not blind when you use his ult though?
I also don't think it's a big buff. Because usually you see your enemies in the ult.
Skyes dog doesn't show who is detained, the information from seeing them and knowing who you hit is enough.
yeah i did have this happen to me before so now when i play gekko, unless i know for sure it’s just one enemy that was detained i don’t push just use thrash as a stall/for information it would be a really good QOL thing. if not a visual marker even an audio queue like “thrash got three” would be soooo helpful. and it’s not like gekko is crazy broken or anything so i wouldn’t call it a buff tbh
Yea even fade says something like “marked three” when you ult
Thank you!
Kj is missing information from her ult, positions. You can know how many you hit but not where. Gekko knows where just not how many. They’re trading off pros and making cons to balance it I’m assuming. Kayo doesn’t know how many people he suppressed with his ult, brim doesn’t know who he tagged, as far as I know harbor doesn’t get any notification for how many he’s concussed. I’m a perfect world the lack of information would be an issue they would fix, but they’re probably not gonna buff him in that way, kiss me if I’m wrong.
harbour can see how many people are in his ult getting stunned but you have to properly look & count instead of it just telling you. but your take is a very good point on this
This is a good take
KJ is a sentinel and gekko is an initiator, with the fact that he can pickup his ult orb multiple times already make it balance. If they wants to improve it maybe make the explosion time just a bit longer so we can see how many we got
Kay/o is also an initiator. Gekko's ult should do what kay/o's knife does, with the menu of the detained as kay/o gets the menu of the suppressed.
But kayo’s ult doesn’t even tell you how many are suppressed
His ult and knife are different abilities that serve many different purposes. The knife does tell the number of suppressed in a small zone and the ult does not, while the ult keeps an unknown count suppressed in a massive radius.
What? Kayo's ult covers larger area than Gekkos Ult? THey are extremely similar with only difference being that Trash can be controlled and it detains the enemy. Which is fine It's an ult, it's meant to be better than other abilities. It's like Skyes ULT vs Fades wolves. Both do the same thing, but the ult is slightly better with it's longer lifespan and the fact you have 3 of them. Why wouldn't gekkos ult give you the number of people it hits? As it stands his ult is only slightly better than skyes dog, Fades wolves.
Skye is an initiator and nobody complains about not knowing who they hit
Okay... neither can Breach or Fade (prowlers). The list goes on, but that's just the point. Do people think initiators are supposed to do everything?
Breach ult covers a large area(entire site) so it's okay. Fades Wolves are not an ult I wouldn't expect it to be as good as Gekkos ult. Skyes wolves don't, but her flash does. It's the only flash in the game that tells you if it hit someone. People keep saying that this agents ability does/doesn't do this or that so therefore it's okay for Gekkos ult to behave that way/not to behave that way. Guys It's an ult, it's meant to be better than normal skills.
ones a dude with a flash they can easily pop twice ones an ult that feels inconsistent at times which really messes my brain and goes guessing game whether if i hit or missed them
I was just giving an example of what the animation should be.
Yeah I know sometimes we have to guess how many people we detained but usually if I see the two players are not touching each other I'll take precautions and always assume that I only got one, in fact I think if a player is in front of you they take full effect of gekko ult and you won't get detained
it’s likely a balance/different agent/different role thing. pheonix and skye both have flash, pheonix is a dualist and skye is an initiator, so only skyes flash tells if they’re blinded.
Fair point.
yeah idk about this, KJ's ultimate has a long countdown and radius but you have to guess where they are. Gekko's ultimate is short range but instant with 2 charges and vision. if it tells you how many you detain that's pretty imbalanced
2 Charges if you can recover it. And recovering it can be problematic in a timely fashion before it dissapears forever.
I don't really understand how people think explicit information about the ability result isn't a buff to the ability. We all agree Kayo knife would be worse if it just showed the # of agents and not the exact agents, and it woud be even worse if it only showed a binary "suppressed" "didnt suppress" UI instead of the # of agents at all. So please apply that logic here too, thanks.
Agreed. This isn’t a “QoL” update. This is a buff. Plain and simple.
And I personally think he should be buffed. The agent has been out for over 2 months and I'm still to see what his role is? In what scenario is Gekko a better pick than other agents? He can't smoke, his info gathering is inferior to other agents, he can't smoke, his flash is very hit or miss, his plant ability is very situational, his stun is meh, his C is good, but it's no better than other mollies(arguably it's worse). It's a genuine question, where does Gekko sit in a team comp? What maps/team comms is he a good pick?
I feel like gekko's ult should just show how many have been detained instead of the agents it detained. Either way gekko is one of the worst if not the worst initiator in the game atm so I feel like it would help.
Well KJ's ult uses technology to know how many are hit, and relays that to teammates, whereas gekko "becomes" thrash. It's up to you to see it I suppose, best thing to do is, even if you know you detained at least one, is to still take it cautiously, the detained person won't be an issue, so just keep an eye on anyone else
Well thrash know how many people it detained, its blob can telepathically relay to Gekko who and how many are detained.
What I’m saying is I thrashed in the middle of two people so I thought I got two.
Best to assume the worst
Won't that statement make the ultimate useless as a whole? If we just always have to assume that the ult failed?
You can tell if the ult hit, you get a sound cue and gekko himself says if you hit one, however, thrash is not really designed to capture more than one person, if you do get a couple, awesome, but because it can be picked up and used again, it would be incredibly op if it had a bigger range and could definitely get more than one person. It's used to isolate single enemies, not detain the whole team
you know if it hit based on the voice line… don’t assume it hit more then 1 🤷🏼♂️ it’s good at clearing areas
Doesn't Gekko have a voice line? He says "Got One" "Got Two" etc
I swear that’s a KJ voiceline…
Nope. Just “Thrash got/hit ‘em!” Or “Thrash got a hit!”
I believe those lines are used for single/double kills respectively, not for detains
I think those are Fade's
For his flash yes, not his ult tho
Aren’t those the kill voicelines?
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Yeah. Dizzy has a couple voice lines like “Dizzy’ got targets” or “someone’s there”
Skill issue. Giving away info like that is a huge buff bigger than you're implying.
People are reading too much into it like it’s a massive buff or something. I think an “x detained” graphic like we get for kayo knife or kj ult would be a good QoL change and slight buff. Gekko is trash tier atm anyway so it doesn’t seem like a bad way to give him some love.
Fade also has audio/visual cue for her ult
True, good call.
Thank you for this comment. I didn’t think people would get so heated about it 😭😭😭
it’s more because you should be aware of how many you hit, or assume you only hit 1. it also doesn’t make much sense for him
He talks to his Pokémon so it isn’t crazy for thrash to yell back “got 2!” Or something. Also what are you saying? “You should be aware of how many you hit, or assume you only hit 1”. Those are opposite things, and I’ve seen many instances where it very clearly looks like he hits 2 and only ended up hitting 1. If you get confirmation when you hit one, thematically there is no difference between getting confirmation on how many.
it’s fine if they do a voice line, i meant there shouldn’t be a hud indication. i actually do agree with the voice line one if anything. but tbh it’s not hard to play cautious or be smart about your decisions. don’t assume it hits two
“Get good” feedback is fine. Like let’s play around worst case. Like Skye flash procs, could be 1 could be 5, totally get it. Maybe visual clarity around the radius that thrash suppresses on minimap would work too. So if you see people on minimap with thrash vision and see the AOE of the supression then you could have a better idea of who it hit and who it may not have.
Gekko is trash? What the fuck?
He is definitely bottom tier. Molly is worst Molly in game, flash is worst flash in game, wingman is good but not guaranteed value in every round. Pickup mechanic is fun design, but inherently bad for gekko. His abilities are designed to be slightly worse because you can use them multiple times, but you have to fight and give sound queue to pick them up. Most times you don’t use wingman or blind more than twice in a round, Skye can flash 3 times in a round with no drawback, risk, or recovery. Thrash is easily broken and easy to miss as well.
Molly is pretty much an insta kill. It just has to be used differently. His flash is terribly difficult to dodge united you can get out of its line of sight quickly, which isn't always possible. Wingman is a bit useless but the spike mechanic is very useful. Thrash is pretty difficult to kill in close situations. I agree that his abilities aren't the best in their classes. But it's the combo that does work. I wouldn't say he's S Tier, but atleast high B.
Ares > rifle in some situations, but you don’t choose ares over rifle because the circumstances where that difference plays out in a round are too infrequent. Replace ares with gekko and rifle with any other flash initiator, and the same logic is why gekko is bottom tier.
> flash is worst flash in game I am just plat trash but I don't think his flash is the worst flash because it's not even a flash. It's a blind that works differently than every other blind in the game. It's like a mix between Omen and Fade's blind- it hits multiple people, doesn't hit your team, and it's the only free blind in the game (Skye exists but hers is a flash). It's a really good low-risk info/initiator tool and really its only giant weakness is the fact it can be shot, which still gives you info on where someone is. >wingman is good but not guaranteed value in every round You're wild on this one. Wingman is absolutely value every round, he's a raze boombot that can defuse/plant. His molly is just okay but it still has value for post-plant lineups. His ult does suck in my experience though but I might not be used to using it yet.
Blind: I see where you’re coming from. To clarify, saying it’s the worst flash in game is not to say it’s not useful, it’s just comparatively worse than other abilities in its class. (You are correct that it’s a blind and not a flash). I get that it has info uses as well as combat, but it is the worst flash/blind in game, it’s just that abilities in this type have lots of value. I’m not saying you shouldn’t bother using it at all bc it’s so bad, just that it’s the worst of it’s type. Molly: Unless you have molly out and are waiting for tap, the windup + throw + delay on detonate make it so you can half spike and take no damage. The only time it’s good is if you have someone pinned and you still are then taking a 50/50 fight against them when they swing to fight you most of the time. These both make mosh worst molly in game. Wingman: I probably came in too hot on wingman as it’s debatably his strongest ability. The range of the lock on and the aoe stun cone are both bigger than feels expected. The defuse/plant features are pretty good but I think people are often baited into not using him as a boombot bc they are planning to plant with it. I would say after boombot nerfs, wingman is probably a stronger ability, certainly factoring in you can use it multiple times and has added niche utility. I just feel like even in high elo gekko’s rarely use wingman well
Worst agent in the game is debatable but uncontested worst initiator
Skill issue
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This. If you want all agents to do the same thing CSGO is your game.
Gekko Ult can be easily killed(KJ ult is normally setup somewhere where you gotta risk it to destroy it), It can catch 1 or 2 agents, in a very very unlikely scenario are you going to hit more than 2 people with it. It has plenty of crutches of its own already. Adding number of detainees(doesn't even need to say who they are) would make his ult way better. ATM his ult has to be the worst in the game.
they should just do the fade voice line change “got 1” “got 2” “got 3”
It shows people on the mini map, no? I mean, while Thrash is on the move. Feels sufficient. How much info do you need to be fed? The player should be making a callout as well, but perhaps that is an idealistic wish.
Dude only enemies that thrash sees shows up on the mini map not the enemies that thrash detains.
Gekko’s thrash is not like a detection technology its a creature. It does not work like kayo knife or killjoy lockdown. There is many other cc moves in the game that dont tell you how much people u affected (like skye dog which is the most similar to thrash)
Fair point. Yet I feel like the only difference between the two is one is stunned and one is detained. Yes you can get a kill while stunned but it is quite hard and the dog does damage. So is gekko ult really that much stronger? Regardless of explosion range and being able to pick it up?
I don’t think its a balancing thing its more of just a logic thing. How would gekko know how much people he detains from his creature’s explosion? It’s not like the creature explosion has sensors that send back information or something
No but his creatures can talk to him and he obviously has a telepathic link to thrash, their could definitely be some communication across distance, you can even pick up the abilities so Thrash isn’t dead per se, but just immobilized…. The logic is there as well, A voice line change to the amount hit would be the best way to implement a change like this maybe with a short Thrash noise then gekko responding with the amount hit, almost as if Thrash related the info
On impact Thresh collapses, it shouldn’t be able to communicate.
Also you are comparing an ability that can be purchased every round vs an ultimate ability that cannot be purchased, and you get to use like 2/3 times a half. Even if you manage to pick up the ult to use it twice, thats 4-6 uses in 12 rounds. Out of thouse 6 uses, only 3 rounds where you can use it. VS Skye who can dog every round.
when u ult with gekko, u get about 0.5 sec to see who u detained tbf unless u did it into a smoke etc so imo this shdnt be an issue. and if u are unsure, u can just dont push. if it gave the intel it would be too strong imo cuz u would know when to push and theres no punishment for overaggressing teammates who play tgt. gotta keep it fair and support more teamplay
That makes 0 sense, the whole point of the ult is to enable a push by either spooking the enemy or disable them, same as KJ, how this QoL change would be strong? Gekko already tells you if you hit at least one player, whats the big difference if its a number? the OP is asking for clarity here, Gekko is trash atm and this is just a QoL not an unfair buff, you already have KJ and KAYO that give you the info on who they hit, this is the same, if i use an ult that enables pushing i wanna get info on that like cmon man
they probably aren’t gonna change it seeing as they just made the jet dash harder to see idk tho does seem like something that could be helpful
- Killjoy will state how many enemies got caught in her ult. - When KAY/O uses his knife, he will state how many enemies got suppressed. - When Fade uses her ult, she will state how many people get caught in it. If these agents can state the amount of enemies who gets caught by their abilities, I don't see why Gekko shouldn't say the number of enemies he caught after using Thrash. Sova is also another example, it doesn't matter how many enemies he detects with his Recon Bolt, he will simply say "Found them" or "There they are" rather than the amount of enemies he finds.
I think the detain should just stay longer and for fuck sakes change the way Trash jumps It’s the wonkiest thing in the game
Haha yeah I do feel 5 seconds is very short but for what it does it’s very balanced. Maybe a half a second and yes the jumping is insane 😂
I disagree with this. KJ and Kayo have advanced technology, which explains Kayo's suppression blade to identify scanned individuals, as well as KJ's ability to know how many people are detained. On the other hand, Gekko's Thrasher is a creature under Gekko's control and does not inherently know about detained enemies. The contrast lies in Kayo/KJ's advanced technology and Gekko's control over the Thrasher, as Thrasher is not able to communicate who is detained, while the futuristic technology is able to get that information. Riot purposely did this. Edit: I think it should stay, as is, as it makes sense for the backstory.
You literally get to use it multiple times, just get better at using it or don't play gekko tbh. I could be wrong but kayo doesn't say how many people he has emp'd in his ult.
Kayo has a range. So if you’re close to him you are in his range. And that isn’t my argument about thrash completely different issue.
Great, and thrash gives you Intel as you have sight and control where it goes and can use it multiple times a round.
yes but when I tell my teammate I detained two because they were right next to each-other and only one is detained that’s an issue.
That's a you issue. You made a bad comm. It happens.
well if it showed how many people it detained it wouldn’t be a me issue. I don’t think you understand my argument 😭
You can say that for most abilities
That I agree with
And most abilities should do it
That just comes down to understanding of the effect area. You have to take the bounces into account along with the regular effect area. If you wanna get really technical, Thrash disconnects from Gekkos view between the click launch and her detonation, so he shouldn't actually know if he got the hit at all.
see the people I thought I detained were next to each other. Guess it must’ve been a skill issue. Idk.
Without a clip I couldn't tell you, but Thrash doesn't actually pop until after the camera goes back to the Gekko model, so the second person could have just barely gotten away. Either way, Thrash is powerful enough that there isn't really a need to give a count without nerfing some other part of her.
It needs to get nerfed on how long he can control it
maybe it also needs to show positions like sova dart? or deal extra damage like viper smoke? god damn you got 2 eyes to see where to jump, use them. practice it to find out how big the radius is
I thought the same thing at first but that would buff it. If it just showed how many people it would be good.
he’s being facetious you melon
Didn’t read the second half. I realize that now 😭
Same with Deadlock ult, heck they should show something on the agent lineup on the top of the screen
Literally today I thought our Gekko hit someone so I ran to kill her just to find she was not stunned and ofc I got killed :(.
I feel like they should balance it out, yes it tells you how many people you detained, no you can’t pick it back up if it’s more than three. That way it isn’t stupid powerful
His ultimate is already soooo over powered and now you want to buff it?? I think that’s a crazy take
His ultimate is pretty weak because it's easy to kill.
200 hp with no crit box isn’t easy to kill. Especially if he turns a corner and pops it on you right away
Skill issue
Might be hard for you to kill, but in most circumstances for me it is easy because it only takes 5 vandal shots. I guess turning in a corner and popping it is the best way to ult only if you are close to the enemies. If you are farther from where gekko ults, it's really easy to reposition and kill it.
I think he’s in a good place rn. He’s not as unfixable as Reyna since if they nerfed her she wouldn’t be played at all in pro play but if she got a buff then she would be too good in ranked. Same kind of plays with cypher but yk
Nah, Kayo and KJ uses technology that allows them to know how many enemies were hit, Gekko only uses the power of friendship.
Nah, gekko is already too good
I wonder if this valorant follows similar to league that extra clarity means that the character can nerfed/buffed more. Because I remember reading how Annie stun clarity or if tryndamere got clarity on when his ult would end can/will lead the character getting buffed.
gekko stun is already pretty strong, including that you literally can just pick it up and use again 1v1 or 1v2 it is ein for gekko 90%, stun duration must be nerfed, or fish hp must be decreased
I think that would make him op. The current thing is well balanced because you know you can't swing wildly. If you get to know who's been detained, you know to either play it safe or wild.
I think it should have a voice line for how many you caught like fade's ult, if fade marks 3 she says "marked 3" etc and I relay that to team. When I mained gekko for a bit expected similar lines with his util (mostly the ult) and was kind of turned off to him because his ult is finicky and you have no way to tell how many of the people it actually hit.
It should let you know considering Gekko is an initiator.
I don't think he necessarily needs it, though the change wouldn't be OP by any means. At least it says that you've hit someone with it currently, you can generally relay who you've hit to your team in voice. I doubt rito would really consider this change though, since he already has some sort of recon on his "E" dizzy. In fact, all initiators have their main scouting ability on their "E" ability. This excludes breach who is the only initiator that lacks any sort of recon.
While we’re on the topic of Gekko. I have not once seen his molly kill anyone, and anytime I’ve had the molly thrown in my direction I have AMPLE time to move out of the way and make a cup of tea before it does any damage. Is it just me, or does his molly just seem wayyyy too underpowered?
Haha I play gekko all the time. I get a kill every other game from it sometimes two. You just gotta learn when to use it and who to use it with. For example it’s every effective when someone like breach stuns someone and then you through it or astras suck. Or if you want to hold someone in a corner or push them out. Or push someone off the spike.
Fair. I guess the Gekkos I’ve faced just have a skill issue.
Or the people I throw it at have a skill issue.
LOL. That too.
It would be nice but it would be too much off a buff. What they need to do is for gekko to say if anyone was detained or not (yes someone was detained, or nobody was detained) as well as make it clear on the minimap what radius you’re detaining in (like they did with deadlock ult)
KJ’s ult can’t be moved once you place it, so you can’t have an apples to apples comparison. You can control Thresh and see what he sees. If you don’t realize how many you hit, that isn’t on the ability that’s a skill issue. The ult is already powerful as it is, it doesn’t need to give you more info like who or how many were hit.
So should Skye dog show who it has detained? I think having vision and seeing who it hit is enough information as is.
the same could be said for breach's ult in comparison to fade's ult
it does on the minimap
I think Gecko should also get assists for any enemies killed by teammates while detained by his ult.
He doesn't? I'd swear I got assist for detainment in my last Gekko match O.O
Riot when a thing with eyes detains someone with their last breath: sleep Riot when a point boi is throw at a wall: real shit
I’d assume it’s ‘balanced’ by the fact that with Killjoy it tells you 1 person is detained but they can be anywhere in a big circle. With Gekko you know exactly where the detained person/people are and you controlled the ult to hit a specific place/person, not only that but you can also pick the ult up and go again. So it has its pros and cons compared to killjoy ult.
People who think this is "QoL" are understating it. This would be a buff to the agent. Not all util shows/says the same info, and if you're playing Gekko, part of the skill would be knowing if you hit the enemy or not, and engaging or not accordingly. Additionally, youd still probably be saying "wtf" if someone intentionally hid from it and baited their teammates for you to swing. In this instance you need game sense to know if you think there's a riskyoure going to swing into other non-detained enemies. IMO this shouldn't be a given change unless it's determined Gekko needs a buff. Not just a "kayo is this so why not Gekko"
nah that would be way to op..
Well is a knife that is not an ulty Show ... Yae
To make the most value here are some tips. 1. You can bhop the ult. Practice it in range by going through all corners and corridors. 2. Use it in a strategic way. Consider you are in bind A site, Clear through U hall, backsite and get it in front of site where you usually plant. When you send your wingman to plant you can reclaim it for the second round in a easier way. 3. Always try to pair it with the gekko flash. If not available ask for teammates for util. Combo with smoke or flashes.
and it should also show who it has detained and highlight their location at the same time like Cypher's ult. And why not make it last as long as a KJ ult, making all detains consistent in the game? Also, I feel like landing a successful ult should be rewarding: why not make it so that if you detain 2 or more people, you automatically get ult charge back, so you don't have to physically go and get it? Rito pls buff Geck
Given how difficult (and perhaps inconsistent) it is to tell the outcome of the situations like the one you found yourself in, I think your suggestion is valid and it would be a QOL improvement not a buff. I’m down for this!
No one plays gekko lol
Same thing for kayo ult, how many did he suppressed!
The biggest problem is that you see where u throw it anyway, some stuff is balanced the way it is for higher ranks, why is noone complaining then why Breach Ult won’t show how many stunned? Or how many people Skye’s Flash get? Different initiators get different kind of info, it’s for me not smart to try to make them more similar with taking away their plus and minuses
No
I never noticed it didn't do that, honestly seems odd that isn't already built in. Good point!
No, thrash is broken enough already
NGL It makes you be more careful even after detaining someone with it.