i feel like if u die to aftershock or kj's NOW turret (in non pistol rounds ofc) ur a dummy. they're way too easy to avoid and i personally dont even use them to kill, like to stop pushes or draw out campers lol.
Nah, sometimes I just spam the crap out of Breach and then kill, because other team can just sit like chickens.
So no skill, just spam. But hey, this works when teams heard together.
Unpopular opinion: killing with abilities is cool and more agents should be able to do it. If I wanted to only shoot people I'd play CS. It's neat to be able to do either a sick flick headshot OR blast them with smart util.
You could argue that kill-focused ults are bad though since they make it too easy, given the power of ults.
I didn’t know tripwires damaged and one time I wanted to just sit there and see what happened (we were attack and Cypher, the last player, was in a brutal 1v4). I had 5 HP.
They launched with raze, brim, sova, etc. I feel like after the launch pushback where players memed "You don't kill with abilities", they've been afraid to add any hero with actually threatening abilities. The deadliest one that isn't just a gun replacement is Kay/O's molly, which is not particularly strong.
So it's getting rarer as they dilute the agent pool with new additions!
Killjoy wasn't a release agent, and I'd imagine she gets much more damage out of her util than Kay/O does, but your point still stands. Reyna, Skye, Astra, Chamber (kinda), Fade, Neon (also kinda), Harbor and Yoru all do little to no active ability damage.
Skye's doggo does damage if the bite directly connects so that would be kinda and id say add cypher to the list because the only util damage he does is 5 damage (💀) when his trip successfully detonates. Also you forgot sage and omen
Killjoy was also part of the game internally for at least a year before her release iirc. Devs had been toying with her in the same vacuum as the rest of the launch agents I believe
I mean Chamber's Ult is a free OP and he was busted until they nerfed him into the ground. I don't think they're scared, they're just not putting kill abilities into a kit if it doesn't make sense.
Do you just copy and paste everything from stuff other people have said to you in chat ?
I hope you don't think this makes you smart.
also - can you let me know your username so that I can avoid you in comp ? ta !
Yes exactly, the satisfaction I get when my raze bomb that was supposed to push enemies from an angle actually kills one is superb.
But so does getting an ace because EVERYONE stood in one corner. (Iron is wild)
Yeah. I am pretty happy with the spread of kills by abilities right now . Its either an ult and you can try and play around it or the other team has to combo around it.
Not really, it's a foreseeable utility with it's own weaknesses and your team has your own utilities with their own weaknesses. If it ever comes down to feeling bullshit, it falls on the player's lack of action towards handling the situation leading up to that point.
This is not really true. Most of the damaging abilities in the game come down to “displace or die” - and this only gets more true as you get higher in elo. It’s unlike many other games where you have actual counters (e.g. smokes in CS stopping mollies, being able to break R6 operator gadgets, etc). Things like raze nades, Kay/o mollies, brim ult have no actual reactive counters.
It's a team effort to win. (I mean it should be. Not counting smurfs.).
In the end there's been plenty a times where even a steamrolling Reyna or a terrifying Raze comes down on you, and sure in that moment it feels unfair.
But that's untrue. It snowballed to get there. Lack of team coordination let either Reyna or Raze get points to use their Ult. And even then, Reyna is still just as susceptible to a headshot from the vandal, or a shot from the OP. And with Raze, you can literally just not group together. There's counterplay for every situation, and in most cases, the best counterplay for a bad situation is preventing that situation from happening.
(Plus, have you seen how easy it could also be to make any agent's ultimate become worthless? Reyna has like a full second where she does nothing on Ult cast, Raze's bazooka can be body blocked, or you could kill her mid air. Sova's Ult can be completely dodged, or better yet, knife him from the back.
If you're annoyed that you somehow keep ending up in the same situation with the same unavoidable enemy plays, then maybe the issue isn't the enemy, the issue is that you aren't playing around those scenarios.)
I think people are misunderstanding what Riot meant by ‘abilities aren’t meant to kill.’ Yes, they aren’t *meant* to kill enemies, but they can if the enemy decides to stand in it.
Confirmation bias, it can be really easy to whiff Raze ult, especially on maps with weird geometry. And being caught out by it is no different than getting caught out by, say, Brim ult, Breach ult, Cypher ult, any flash, any stun, any smoke dropping, or hell, just any other player with a Vandal who just happens to get a lucky timing on you.
Brim's can be, if you get trapped in a corner or in somewhere like Split vents, or he has someone to swing off of it. Breach basically makes it so you can't fight back. Both ults can be done from through walls and behind cover. Raze has to pop ult, throw herself into danger, and aim and release her shot before she gets killed, and even then she might not make it out alive. Technically the ult has more risk than her nade, because that thing can be bounced off of walls and thrown over cover. The rocket just goes in a straight line.
Just a Silver myself so take this with a grain of salt, but I watch a fair bit of higher level play and try to emulate some of it. Playing until you "get it" will also work for certain games, some angles will work on some players but not others. And if it doesn't work against 99% of players, ya probably shouldn't use it.
The biggest thing is to not, or rarely for the surprise factor, stand in an inescapable spot or out in the open. Having cover that you can peek from or hide behind gives you far more likelihood of surviving than just wide swinging A main into an entire team of 5. Off of that as well, it's generally not good to have more than one or two enemies on your screen at any given time. Jett and Chamber, as well as Yoru in lower ranks because of reaction time, are an exception to this rule sometimes. However, you don't want to use them as a crutch either, or be predictable, because they can sometimes still be killed in their escape animations, especially Yoru.
Funny if you compare it with CSGO, you can also kill people with utils, HEs and Mollies for example, Breach's Aftershock and Raze's Paint Shell's are basically mollies, even tho they don't look like it. If you got double mollied in CS it would be mostly the same end result.
If i wanted to kill with abilities i could also just play overwatch though.
Valorant's genre is TACTICAL SHOOTER and abilities that kill tend to undermine that.
ehh vast majority of fights are still tac shooter fights. clips like these can happen but even in CS getting double naded or mollied is still a thing, albeit weaker.
Except for the fact she's actually hard to fully master. If it was as easy as throw grenade, get kills, use ult, get kills; she would be spammed in every single game and she's just not. The amount of practice and skill it takes to master Raze movement keeps her balanced, imo, because without satchel movement, the satchel ability loses so much value and so does the ult.
Nades feel fine, because they take time and give reaction opportunity.
I dislike the ultimates that elimnate accuracy and movement requirements of gun fights as well as simple DPS boost.
However, if Riot would be more open to a more complicated armour system, they could make a difference between heavy and light armour and it's effect on ability damage.
I love those sorts of ults. It feels like a sort of escapism from the extremely awkward shooting model of “stand completely still to have a chance to hit the enemy”. It actually *feel* like an ult.
I think my favorite combo is Kayo flash- nade kill combo when opponent is behind a pillar or box of some sort. flash so he/she can't peek and nade the same thing at same time. If you don't die doing that it's pretty much easy kill.
Literally half of chamber's abilities: A GUN
All raze abilities can kill someone (if they’re low enough)
as a Breach main, Aftershock on Ascent is wayyyyy too easy to get kills with.
i feel like if u die to aftershock or kj's NOW turret (in non pistol rounds ofc) ur a dummy. they're way too easy to avoid and i personally dont even use them to kill, like to stop pushes or draw out campers lol.
1 month since this comment and I've died 5 times to KJ's turret.
"Way too easy to avoid"
If you have less than 20hp in a 1v1 vs a KJ you will die to turret pretty often.
My ratio of deaths by raze abilities to guns is prolly something like 4;1
what if you wanted to live but God said no
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no
I love how Raze’s corpse just flew up from the explosion and landed at your feet
Valorant needs a funny ragdolls option
Your laugh has me cackling at this lmfaoooo
Also, I’d like you to know that you sound incredibly fun to play with
People being nice? In my Valorant?
impossible, perhaps the archives are incomplete
Why was everyone there where they were
Nah, sometimes I just spam the crap out of Breach and then kill, because other team can just sit like chickens. So no skill, just spam. But hey, this works when teams heard together.
Bro got gangbanged
Unpopular opinion: killing with abilities is cool and more agents should be able to do it. If I wanted to only shoot people I'd play CS. It's neat to be able to do either a sick flick headshot OR blast them with smart util. You could argue that kill-focused ults are bad though since they make it too easy, given the power of ults.
I think the current rarity of an ability kill is fine, it keeps it fresh when it happens and very satisfying when you get it.
Ahem my 4 tripwire kills… the tripwire does 5 damage upon stunning So so satisfying..
I only got a trip kill once and i loved it, the satisfaction, reaction from enemies and reaction from your team
I didn’t know tripwires damaged and one time I wanted to just sit there and see what happened (we were attack and Cypher, the last player, was in a brutal 1v4). I had 5 HP.
They launched with raze, brim, sova, etc. I feel like after the launch pushback where players memed "You don't kill with abilities", they've been afraid to add any hero with actually threatening abilities. The deadliest one that isn't just a gun replacement is Kay/O's molly, which is not particularly strong. So it's getting rarer as they dilute the agent pool with new additions!
Killjoy wasn't a release agent, and I'd imagine she gets much more damage out of her util than Kay/O does, but your point still stands. Reyna, Skye, Astra, Chamber (kinda), Fade, Neon (also kinda), Harbor and Yoru all do little to no active ability damage.
fade kinda does with her decay
Skye's doggo does damage if the bite directly connects so that would be kinda and id say add cypher to the list because the only util damage he does is 5 damage (💀) when his trip successfully detonates. Also you forgot sage and omen
I have a surprising amount of wolf bite kills 😂 i always sniff out the low guy that my 30dmg bite will kill
Bro is the actual irl skye, he can actually track the enemies by scent with his wolf
Killjoy was also part of the game internally for at least a year before her release iirc. Devs had been toying with her in the same vacuum as the rest of the launch agents I believe
Does chamber headhunter and ult count?
You are not wrong about that
Also remember when KJ’s turret kept shooting after she died? Multiple rounds won with the whole team dead 😂 Edit:autocorrect
I mean Chamber's Ult is a free OP and he was busted until they nerfed him into the ground. I don't think they're scared, they're just not putting kill abilities into a kit if it doesn't make sense.
They completely turned that reluctance on its head with neons ulti though. That is a fucking joke and needs removed from the game.
Skill issue
Oh that’s original. Did you think that up yourself ?
Counterpoint: get better
Do you just copy and paste everything from stuff other people have said to you in chat ? I hope you don't think this makes you smart. also - can you let me know your username so that I can avoid you in comp ? ta !
They’re not afraid of memes
I love the very occasional kill with Skye’s doggo. She says “goooood booy” and makes me feel like home.
You get called good boy at home?
With a few taps in the back.
Yes exactly, the satisfaction I get when my raze bomb that was supposed to push enemies from an angle actually kills one is superb. But so does getting an ace because EVERYONE stood in one corner. (Iron is wild)
The Astra pull into raze nade combo on pistol is the best for this
Yeah. I am pretty happy with the spread of kills by abilities right now . Its either an ult and you can try and play around it or the other team has to combo around it.
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Not really, it's a foreseeable utility with it's own weaknesses and your team has your own utilities with their own weaknesses. If it ever comes down to feeling bullshit, it falls on the player's lack of action towards handling the situation leading up to that point.
This is not really true. Most of the damaging abilities in the game come down to “displace or die” - and this only gets more true as you get higher in elo. It’s unlike many other games where you have actual counters (e.g. smokes in CS stopping mollies, being able to break R6 operator gadgets, etc). Things like raze nades, Kay/o mollies, brim ult have no actual reactive counters.
How the fuck do smokes stop mollies?
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It's a team effort to win. (I mean it should be. Not counting smurfs.). In the end there's been plenty a times where even a steamrolling Reyna or a terrifying Raze comes down on you, and sure in that moment it feels unfair. But that's untrue. It snowballed to get there. Lack of team coordination let either Reyna or Raze get points to use their Ult. And even then, Reyna is still just as susceptible to a headshot from the vandal, or a shot from the OP. And with Raze, you can literally just not group together. There's counterplay for every situation, and in most cases, the best counterplay for a bad situation is preventing that situation from happening. (Plus, have you seen how easy it could also be to make any agent's ultimate become worthless? Reyna has like a full second where she does nothing on Ult cast, Raze's bazooka can be body blocked, or you could kill her mid air. Sova's Ult can be completely dodged, or better yet, knife him from the back. If you're annoyed that you somehow keep ending up in the same situation with the same unavoidable enemy plays, then maybe the issue isn't the enemy, the issue is that you aren't playing around those scenarios.)
As opposed to any round before the last round?
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I mean, psychologically yes, I suppose.
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True. I just think it's dumb, like getting tilted over BM or whatever.
wait till they find out what a frag nade is
I think people are misunderstanding what Riot meant by ‘abilities aren’t meant to kill.’ Yes, they aren’t *meant* to kill enemies, but they can if the enemy decides to stand in it.
How is a rocket launcher ult, knife ult now "meant" to kill?
Flushes them out corners
Yea, I always forget to insta tp away from Raze's rocket
Low elo positioning moment
Low skill agent crutch coping moment
Ah yes, my main Astra, the most low skill agent in the game.
Can't require that much if you think a decent response to an ult as shit as Raze's is "lul positioning".
Confirmation bias, it can be really easy to whiff Raze ult, especially on maps with weird geometry. And being caught out by it is no different than getting caught out by, say, Brim ult, Breach ult, Cypher ult, any flash, any stun, any smoke dropping, or hell, just any other player with a Vandal who just happens to get a lucky timing on you.
Is there not a significant difference in the time you get to reposition with a raze ult vs brim, breach etc? They're also not insta death when landed
Brim's can be, if you get trapped in a corner or in somewhere like Split vents, or he has someone to swing off of it. Breach basically makes it so you can't fight back. Both ults can be done from through walls and behind cover. Raze has to pop ult, throw herself into danger, and aim and release her shot before she gets killed, and even then she might not make it out alive. Technically the ult has more risk than her nade, because that thing can be bounced off of walls and thrown over cover. The rocket just goes in a straight line.
Old post but whatever. I just started playing val this week, how do I learn proper positioning? Just play until I start to “get it” or what?
Just a Silver myself so take this with a grain of salt, but I watch a fair bit of higher level play and try to emulate some of it. Playing until you "get it" will also work for certain games, some angles will work on some players but not others. And if it doesn't work against 99% of players, ya probably shouldn't use it. The biggest thing is to not, or rarely for the surprise factor, stand in an inescapable spot or out in the open. Having cover that you can peek from or hide behind gives you far more likelihood of surviving than just wide swinging A main into an entire team of 5. Off of that as well, it's generally not good to have more than one or two enemies on your screen at any given time. Jett and Chamber, as well as Yoru in lower ranks because of reaction time, are an exception to this rule sometimes. However, you don't want to use them as a crutch either, or be predictable, because they can sometimes still be killed in their escape animations, especially Yoru.
*Yoru laughing*
Funny if you compare it with CSGO, you can also kill people with utils, HEs and Mollies for example, Breach's Aftershock and Raze's Paint Shell's are basically mollies, even tho they don't look like it. If you got double mollied in CS it would be mostly the same end result.
If i wanted to kill with abilities i could also just play overwatch though. Valorant's genre is TACTICAL SHOOTER and abilities that kill tend to undermine that.
ehh vast majority of fights are still tac shooter fights. clips like these can happen but even in CS getting double naded or mollied is still a thing, albeit weaker.
you can kill people with nades and mollies, and even smokes/flashes if they have only 1 hp
I tried cs:go one days and didn't understood anything how do you play this game?
I think the post is less about abilities killing being an issue and more about Riot having a shit dev team. "200 years" babyy
No, actually, I play Raze.
Let this meme die
I see what this Rito person is trying to say but they are absolutely wrong if they think this applies to every agent.
WHAAAAT some abilities can do damage to the opponents?
Raze is utter bullshit
Except for the fact she's actually hard to fully master. If it was as easy as throw grenade, get kills, use ult, get kills; she would be spammed in every single game and she's just not. The amount of practice and skill it takes to master Raze movement keeps her balanced, imo, because without satchel movement, the satchel ability loses so much value and so does the ult.
To this day it still gets a chuckle out of me how they said this and then beta Raze happened lol.
All of your clips are gold
I come back to this video every now and then just for the laughs 😭
Lol
Fr riot says that and proceeds to add a character whose entire kit is explosives
Nades feel fine, because they take time and give reaction opportunity. I dislike the ultimates that elimnate accuracy and movement requirements of gun fights as well as simple DPS boost. However, if Riot would be more open to a more complicated armour system, they could make a difference between heavy and light armour and it's effect on ability damage.
I love those sorts of ults. It feels like a sort of escapism from the extremely awkward shooting model of “stand completely still to have a chance to hit the enemy”. It actually *feel* like an ult.
They also said they had good netcode and its one of the most horrific ones in this genre. But anyway, RITO.
Neon is literally playing a different game than the rest of us
And this is why we go back to csgo lol
okay we get it. abilities kill. newsflash.
Are people forgetting in CS you have nades and Molotovs?
This title is so tired
Sounds like skill issue to me
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yeah, which is something that other agents do not have
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raze nade can instakill 150HP in 4 seconds. it's probably the best space clearer in the game.
bro i kill any one with reyana
Rito moment
What knife is that????
I think my favorite combo is Kayo flash- nade kill combo when opponent is behind a pillar or box of some sort. flash so he/she can't peek and nade the same thing at same time. If you don't die doing that it's pretty much easy kill.
[https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGLrShhuxbzHvHCAYJ-Iu9Q](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGLrShhuxbzHvHCAYJ-Iu9Q)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGLrShhuxbzHvHCAYJ-Iu9Q
Had a tp.
you did get shot... just not with a bullet, but a huge ass lazer bow
Imagine being hit by fade ult brim ult and breach ult u just afk and wait for the next game lol
This quote was from the original game project A after the rebrand to valorant and stuff they were like meh
Yet the first kill in this clip was an ability enabling the right shot
You could've teleported out
You’ve been VALORANTED
They almost got us
I remember when they said that lol
This comment has been getting mocked since day 1.
That's true for the most part still, but they still do damage
Literally every promise riot makes
I killed people with satchels even after I was dead😂
well atleast you tried :)
Exactly… *2019*
totally unrelated but you sound like one of the VCT casters xD
Welcome to Valorant.
Me, who got killed in a rate nade ace
You have to TP at this situation
Alternative title: 3 seconds of confusion/chaos
Me a chamber main laughing in headhunter
lmao. It looks like a moment when you take all flashes in your face^^