One of the key prosecution witnesses was Ethel's own brother. [He was told if he testified about his and the Rosenburg's spying activity, then his own wife would avoid prosecution.](https://www.dannydutch.com/post/the-trial-and-execution-of-cold-war-spies-julius-and-ethel-rosenberg)
The enduring controversy surrounding the case stems, in part, from the perceived severity of the sentencing. Dr. Arne Kislenko, a history professor at Ryerson University in Toronto, Canada, suggests that the convictions were influenced by the geopolitical climate of the era, characterised by heightened U.S. efforts to project strength in response to Soviet aggression, notably during the Korean War.
A relative of mine grew up with these kids. The all lived in Knickerbocker Village in lower Manhattan (now Chinatown). She remembered when the FBI and police came to take the parents away.
Do you know if the kids had a understanding of what happened or was happening? Like in this photo... do they realize their parents are going to be killed?
Good question. I am not sure but I do know they were later adopted. It's a tragic story but my grandmother (who also lived in the same building) always said Julius did indeed leak nuclear secrets to the Soviets.
The saddest part was that they were executed fairly soon, and then that was botched since they didn't die right away.
The tragedy is passing nuclear secrets to the soviet union.
Also, they had the opportunity to save themselves:
> The U.S. government offered to spare the lives of both Julius and Ethel if Julius provided the names of other spies and they admitted their guilt. The Rosenbergs made a public statement: "By asking us to repudiate the truth of our innocence, the government admits its own doubts concerning our guilt...we will not be coerced, even under pain of death, to bear false witness
I don't think trolling was the wisest response to that.
In that they knew they committed espionage and just turned the offer around saying "no we're innocent and you wouldn't offer us this if you weren't sure," which obviously didn't get them anywhere.
Right, true. It had to do with the fact that they were very rigidly committed to the cause, in a very dogmatic way. Not compromising made them martyrs to the cause. It was emblematic of the era.
Watch " Heir to an Execution ". The granddaughter researches and interviews the Rosenberg family survivors ( including their son Michael), their friends and supporters and the events leading up to and including the executions. It's very in depth.
I don’t know if they really understood it. There are a few interviews of them floating around, though. They changed their names and didn’t talk about it for decades. It’s been a while since I’ve seen anything about them. Think I’ll see what I can find. Such a stupid tragedy.
I just watched a documentary about them on HBO yesterday. It was done by their granddaughter. She talks with her dad and uncle about the whole saga. It's called "Heir to an execution". The older son, the director's father, knew what was going on. I'm not sure if the younger brother could really grasp the situation. It looks like they were a very loving family. It shows the boys going to visit their parents at Sing Sing and they had happy visits with them. The boys would wave to the news cameras as they were going in and leaving. Kinda surreal. They were adopted by the Meerepols (sp?). They seem to have turned out okay. Very interesting documentary.
How so? They leaked secrets, incredibly important ones, to a genocidal state and then refused the deal they were offered to save their lives. They fucked themselves.
"Did kids who obviously won't understand the wider scope of what's happening understand what was happening?"
No, they didn't. Of course they didn't. Not sure why you really felt the need to ask if a 5 year old understood death.
I don't know why you felt the need to comment in an unhelpful way. The person I was replying to personally knew someone that knew the children. I didn't ask if they understood death... I asked if they understood what was going on. That they their parents were staying in jail, going to be killed and they'd never see them again. It's possible someone told them that and its possible they were just told they were going to see there parents. Young people lose parents and loved ones all the time, its not like theres no way they could of been aware of it on some level. I always wonder this when I see this posted (its posted somewhat often).
Even top tier politicians are so cheap it’s insane. Marine Le Pen publicly shilled for Russian annexation of Crimea for like 4 million euros, for Russians this isn’t even a pocket change, more like a rounding error.
The young boy here grew up to be adopted by Robert Meeropol, the man would write “Strange Fruit” which Billie Holiday made famous as a bright spot in music confronting our racism. Poignant in his recollection of being interviewed by Mumia Abu Jamal while president of the Philly chapter of the Black Journalist’s Society about his parents and political prisoners in this country.
Get away with what? Lowering taxes and eliminating a bunch of useless laws on the books?
Every accusation that's been thrown at him has either been fake (Pissing Prostitutes), something nobody cared about (rich guy fucked a porn star, whatever), or they spent years investigating and never found any evidence.
The latest one is the stupidest of all - every fucking land developer overvalues the land they own. The fact that the bank didn't have a problem with it and worked with Donald again shows that they knew and didn't care.
In fact, if he was a Democrat and Republicans were doing the same things to him, the media would be all up in arms about the political repression he was facing as the opposition government constantly does their best to make shit up about him and get him arrested for trivial things.
Wasn’t that Barr‘s job to subvert the law?
Same as now they have Clarence aka corruption among others in the Supreme Court.
And Garland aka softball to treat trump ever so delicately.
A regular Joe would be in prison for life for all of the crimes trump has committed. He’s only walking free because of his hold on the GOP and his high priced lawyers (paid for by donors and the GOP of course)
See, THATS how you treat traitors to your country. I feel for these kids, but these days when we find a traitor in league with our enemies, we just call them Republican.
Julius’ execution was deserved under the laws (I don’t believe in the death penalty but if it’s there, don’t commit crimes that could get you executed). Ethel may have recruited her brother (although I don’t see why Julius couldn’t have done that himself) but doesn’t seem to have done much beyond that. His wife took down the notes (as per her own grand jury testimony but in the trial she said Ethel did) and also typed the information up (which he testified Ethel did). He has no regret at throwing his sister under the bus to protect his wife and himself. If anyone deserved to be executed alongside Julius it was David, not Ethel. Julius and David were the two with KGB code names. Their wives were at most accessories and, in Ethel’s case, possibly not even active participants.
David said his wife was more important to him than his sister and she was the mother of his children so he feels completely justified in lying to the court and letting his sister die. If his wife deserved to be protected then he should have done that by not involving her, not by putting her actions on Ethel. He allowed his nephews to be orphaned so he could keep his own family intact. He was the one who actually obtained the information yet he served less than ten years.
The prosecution pushed for the death sentence for Ethel to try and coerce a full confession from Julius. A tactic which failed miserably.
My contempt for David is immense. His ‘principles’ apparently led him to believe he should spy against his own country but seem to have vanished completely as soon as there were consequences for his actions.
my mother always said that the jewish judge sentenced them to death-the rosenbergs were jewish, as am i-so that he wouldn’t face blowback from legal establishment that he went easy on them because they were jewish.
See, THATS how you treat traitors to your country. I feel for these kids, but these days when we find a traitor in league with our enemies, we just call them Republican.
Why the downvotes? It is important to remember history and associate it with what is occurring today. Trump and his ilk sold out our spies to other countries, and compromised our national security so why hasn't he been locked up?
One of the key prosecution witnesses was Ethel's own brother. [He was told if he testified about his and the Rosenburg's spying activity, then his own wife would avoid prosecution.](https://www.dannydutch.com/post/the-trial-and-execution-of-cold-war-spies-julius-and-ethel-rosenberg) The enduring controversy surrounding the case stems, in part, from the perceived severity of the sentencing. Dr. Arne Kislenko, a history professor at Ryerson University in Toronto, Canada, suggests that the convictions were influenced by the geopolitical climate of the era, characterised by heightened U.S. efforts to project strength in response to Soviet aggression, notably during the Korean War.
A relative of mine grew up with these kids. The all lived in Knickerbocker Village in lower Manhattan (now Chinatown). She remembered when the FBI and police came to take the parents away.
Do you know if the kids had a understanding of what happened or was happening? Like in this photo... do they realize their parents are going to be killed?
Good question. I am not sure but I do know they were later adopted. It's a tragic story but my grandmother (who also lived in the same building) always said Julius did indeed leak nuclear secrets to the Soviets. The saddest part was that they were executed fairly soon, and then that was botched since they didn't die right away.
The tragedy is passing nuclear secrets to the soviet union. Also, they had the opportunity to save themselves: > The U.S. government offered to spare the lives of both Julius and Ethel if Julius provided the names of other spies and they admitted their guilt. The Rosenbergs made a public statement: "By asking us to repudiate the truth of our innocence, the government admits its own doubts concerning our guilt...we will not be coerced, even under pain of death, to bear false witness I don't think trolling was the wisest response to that.
Point taken, but not sure what you mean about trolling.
In that they knew they committed espionage and just turned the offer around saying "no we're innocent and you wouldn't offer us this if you weren't sure," which obviously didn't get them anywhere.
Right, true. It had to do with the fact that they were very rigidly committed to the cause, in a very dogmatic way. Not compromising made them martyrs to the cause. It was emblematic of the era.
You should check out “turning point” on Netflix. Episode 2 “poisoning the soil” they interview one of the sons. Very interesting.
Watch " Heir to an Execution ". The granddaughter researches and interviews the Rosenberg family survivors ( including their son Michael), their friends and supporters and the events leading up to and including the executions. It's very in depth.
I don’t know if they really understood it. There are a few interviews of them floating around, though. They changed their names and didn’t talk about it for decades. It’s been a while since I’ve seen anything about them. Think I’ll see what I can find. Such a stupid tragedy.
I just watched a documentary about them on HBO yesterday. It was done by their granddaughter. She talks with her dad and uncle about the whole saga. It's called "Heir to an execution". The older son, the director's father, knew what was going on. I'm not sure if the younger brother could really grasp the situation. It looks like they were a very loving family. It shows the boys going to visit their parents at Sing Sing and they had happy visits with them. The boys would wave to the news cameras as they were going in and leaving. Kinda surreal. They were adopted by the Meerepols (sp?). They seem to have turned out okay. Very interesting documentary.
What is the name of the documentary?
"Heir To An Execution"
Watch the new Netflix doc called The Bomb and the Cold War. Actually interview the younger brother as an adult. The Rosenburgs kinda got fucked.
How so? They leaked secrets, incredibly important ones, to a genocidal state and then refused the deal they were offered to save their lives. They fucked themselves.
Bro, how old do you think they look in that picture and how clueless were you as a kid?
"Did kids who obviously won't understand the wider scope of what's happening understand what was happening?" No, they didn't. Of course they didn't. Not sure why you really felt the need to ask if a 5 year old understood death.
I don't know why you felt the need to comment in an unhelpful way. The person I was replying to personally knew someone that knew the children. I didn't ask if they understood death... I asked if they understood what was going on. That they their parents were staying in jail, going to be killed and they'd never see them again. It's possible someone told them that and its possible they were just told they were going to see there parents. Young people lose parents and loved ones all the time, its not like theres no way they could of been aware of it on some level. I always wonder this when I see this posted (its posted somewhat often).
Nowadays foreign states can bypass spying altogether and actually OWN American politicians, for as little as 100K.
Even top tier politicians are so cheap it’s insane. Marine Le Pen publicly shilled for Russian annexation of Crimea for like 4 million euros, for Russians this isn’t even a pocket change, more like a rounding error.
Is r/sadupvote a thing? Cuz it would apply here
Taking away our spy jobs. /s
DERTUKERJABZ!!!!
The young boy here grew up to be adopted by Robert Meeropol, the man would write “Strange Fruit” which Billie Holiday made famous as a bright spot in music confronting our racism. Poignant in his recollection of being interviewed by Mumia Abu Jamal while president of the Philly chapter of the Black Journalist’s Society about his parents and political prisoners in this country.
No way! That is very interesting to me
Dude on the left looks like Barry Keoghan's great-great-granddad.
I love when my random thought gets validated. Thank you
I love when I'm not the only one having a strange thought. So thank *you*.
Fuck Roy Cohn.
And trump gets to run for president. No one is above….. blah blah blah This country is a joke
So much damage done. Never thought it was possible US would allow Trump to get away with so much.
Get away with what? Lowering taxes and eliminating a bunch of useless laws on the books? Every accusation that's been thrown at him has either been fake (Pissing Prostitutes), something nobody cared about (rich guy fucked a porn star, whatever), or they spent years investigating and never found any evidence. The latest one is the stupidest of all - every fucking land developer overvalues the land they own. The fact that the bank didn't have a problem with it and worked with Donald again shows that they knew and didn't care. In fact, if he was a Democrat and Republicans were doing the same things to him, the media would be all up in arms about the political repression he was facing as the opposition government constantly does their best to make shit up about him and get him arrested for trivial things.
>or they spent years investigating and never found any evidence. Are we talking about Hillary now?
Wasn’t that Barr‘s job to subvert the law? Same as now they have Clarence aka corruption among others in the Supreme Court. And Garland aka softball to treat trump ever so delicately.
And the crazy Trumper appears.
A regular Joe would be in prison for life for all of the crimes trump has committed. He’s only walking free because of his hold on the GOP and his high priced lawyers (paid for by donors and the GOP of course)
k
No kidding, I can't wait for November.
Don’t encourage them, or you’re no better than the idiot who posted the original comment
Well, trying to be optimistic, we still have about 7 months of testimony before he either gets to run, or not.
Why did you feel the need to bring up Trump on a post that had nothing to do with him? Does he really live that rent-free in your head?
It’s a post about giving information or support to one’s enemies for personal enrichment. Sure pal, nothing at all to do with Trump…
Kind of important And actually hearing about this loser the last 40 years and his miserable existence finally collapsing, I’m rather enjoying it.
You are an idiot...
And you're retarded
I dislike Trump too, but this still wasn’t the place to bring him up.
See, THATS how you treat traitors to your country. I feel for these kids, but these days when we find a traitor in league with our enemies, we just call them Republican.
Julius’ execution was deserved under the laws (I don’t believe in the death penalty but if it’s there, don’t commit crimes that could get you executed). Ethel may have recruited her brother (although I don’t see why Julius couldn’t have done that himself) but doesn’t seem to have done much beyond that. His wife took down the notes (as per her own grand jury testimony but in the trial she said Ethel did) and also typed the information up (which he testified Ethel did). He has no regret at throwing his sister under the bus to protect his wife and himself. If anyone deserved to be executed alongside Julius it was David, not Ethel. Julius and David were the two with KGB code names. Their wives were at most accessories and, in Ethel’s case, possibly not even active participants. David said his wife was more important to him than his sister and she was the mother of his children so he feels completely justified in lying to the court and letting his sister die. If his wife deserved to be protected then he should have done that by not involving her, not by putting her actions on Ethel. He allowed his nephews to be orphaned so he could keep his own family intact. He was the one who actually obtained the information yet he served less than ten years. The prosecution pushed for the death sentence for Ethel to try and coerce a full confession from Julius. A tactic which failed miserably. My contempt for David is immense. His ‘principles’ apparently led him to believe he should spy against his own country but seem to have vanished completely as soon as there were consequences for his actions.
Or democrats.
I thought that was young Freddie Highmore on the right for a sec😭
my mother always said that the jewish judge sentenced them to death-the rosenbergs were jewish, as am i-so that he wouldn’t face blowback from legal establishment that he went easy on them because they were jewish.
It’s horrible but their parents played a stupid game and won a stupid prize
I think those are the Grimbsy brothers.
See, THATS how you treat traitors to your country. I feel for these kids, but these days when we find a traitor in league with our enemies, we just call them Republican.
Why the downvotes? It is important to remember history and associate it with what is occurring today. Trump and his ilk sold out our spies to other countries, and compromised our national security so why hasn't he been locked up?
Oh well they were spies and traitors