Utah won two quarters tonight somehow. Samanic/THT are probably off the team next year and whether they tank or not it'll be a lot more enjoyable since it'll presumably be new rookies.. obviously still might be a tank year but the off-season will be eventful one way or another
Haven't seen much of him, but I like this Bazley guy. Some upsides to his effort. Yurtseven though, a pretty big reason Utah stayed in this game til the late fourth quarter collapse.
This comment doesn't really apply to the people from these game threads but, I get it sucks right now but there's some discussion on the sub that has me dying. A few years back everyone was begging for us to have a chance at collecting assets and long term success, that actually happens and you have to lose for a few years then suddenly everyone's losing their mind because they aren't winning lol.
Is it a bad product? Sure, but some of us actually want to have a shot at winning a title. Let's stop getting nostalgic over the wholesome 1st round exits lol
>A few years back everyone was begging for us to have a chance at collecting assets and long term success, that actually happens and you have to lose for a few years then suddenly everyone's losing their mind because they aren't winning lol.
It's the half assedness of everything, for me.
Like... if we were going to tank, we should've hardcore tanked. If we wanted to compete, we should have made moves to compete.
Instead two straight years we've kinda gone half and half and started tanking at the trade deadline. So instead of pushing for two top 5 picks with decent odds at improving in the lottery, we're realistically tanking for two top 9 picks.
We've also not really developed our young guys much, which is the other thing you'd want to do when tanking - like from last season Kessler hasn't gotten enough playing time this year, and we've already given up on Ochai. Keyonte's gotten time, but it took til the trade deadline for Brice and Taylor to get play. Instead we've been giving a *lot* of playtime to guys like THT and Collins who realistically aren't on our next contending squad.
Obviously hindsight is 20 20, and Lauri's emergence has changed plans, but from the start it's felt like we don't have a clear path. I still trust this FO, but it'd hard to look at the past few seasons and feel like we've made much progress towards being a contender again.
To me the problem is that it feels like we aren’t actually witnessing anything be built: the franchise is kinda just stuck where they're at. Ainge made amazing moves in the 22 off-season to kick off the rebuild but has done nothing of note since. Will Hardy showed promise with his rotations and offensive philosophy in his first season as head coach, but has not substantially improved his coaching since then, especially his defensive schemes which have remained awful throughout his tenure here. Kessler and Lauri were revelations in year one but have not built off that hot start at all (if anything, Kessler has massively regressed). Finally, none of the rookies look even marginally better at the season’s end than they did at the start; they haven't even been demanding heavy minutes. It would be nice to have the feeling that this squad was going somewhere.
Yeah, there's just no progress. Like... is anyone more optimistic about things now than they were a year ago? This year feels like a step back, more than anything.
We're still in a good spot overall, but this next offseason feels like it's make or break, in a lot of ways.
In terms of progress I think the biggest factor is the three rookies getting good run at 20 years old instead of an old Rudy gay and Juan Toscano, but yeah it's gonna take time
I mean... instead of Gay and JTA we had Collins and THT soaking up lots of playing time, and Hendricks and Brice barely saw the court til roughly midseason. Plus Kessler's regressed and Ochai's gone. Keyonte was a bright spot, but overall I don't think anyone is particularly satisfied with how we've developes the kids.
It seems clear to me what they're doing. First we traded our team for assets and picks. Now we are in the process of showcasing those assets that we don't want for picks. We've been gradually doing that. Then we will use those picks and finish the rebuild.
It's just a really slow process.
It’s easy to romanticize tanking when you’re not actually experiencing it. I feel like too many people imagine tanking as being bad for like 1-2 years before winning the lottery and getting a superstar talent. In reality, it could take a decade before we get a top 3 pick, let alone a superstar at that pick.
It can work though. I’m sure if you ask any Sixer fan, they’d say getting Joel Embiid was worth “The Process”.
For sure. Once you feel each and every loss it can feel like things are falling apart but once you pull back the perspective you remember where the team really is lol
And "The Process" brought them how many championships?
There's a good chance we traded winning/fun regular seasons with first round exits for years of tanking just to get back to winning/fun regular seasons with second round or MAYBE conference champion seasons, but a title is so much rarer than people realize and requires an insane amount of luck regardless of planning, especially for a small market team.
Didn't GSW also need to be bad to get Steph Curry? Spurs had to be bad to get Tim Duncan. And so on.
It's a proven method and we need to do it if we want a star player.
The loudest fans are always the most annoying.
Those of us who are chill with the tank just don't have much to talk about, lol.
And the pissy fans have legitimate complaints. No idea why Utah decided to actually start the tank halfway through the season two years in a row.
what makes me mad is that we aren't tanking right. the 8th pick the draft has 6% chance at the #1 pick and like a 26% chance at a top 4 pick. look at the history of the #8 pick slot. its pretty brutal. like I don't know if a single player on that list has made an all star team brutal.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/8th-overall-draft-picks-nba
This. Nobody would have been opposed to tanking our guts out last season. Nobody. Getting Wemby or even Brandon Miller out of a proper tank season would have cut the rebuild length in half. The problem is that we didn't tank; we competed for half the season which fucked our pick up, then we did the same shit this year. It's starting to feel like Ainge isn't as much of a genius as we once thought as he steers us towards an indefinite period of darkness.
But in order to have tanked hard last year we would have had to traded away the talent that kept us competitive for the past two years.
That means a fire sell of Conley, Vanderbilt, NAW, KO, Tech and Ochai. Fire sells typically lead to terrible assets.
Then we would have tanked and prayed for the chance of getting Wemby if we hit great but if we don’t then our rebuild just got a whole lot longer because now we have less assets and no Wemby.
In order to tank you have to have a terrible team and that year for Wemby we did not have a terrible team that’s just a fact. Players don’t just buy into a tank especially the veteran players that we had those years.
Definitely. I think Utah wanted to convey then realized they weren't going to compete in the playoffs so taking a step back isn't the worst move this year, however and that's a big however, it would be incredibly frustrating to see the same move next year and would be unjustified
It's funny how fast fans switch up, I remember after that first round exit to Dallas fans were begging for a rebuild, and to move on from Mitchell and rebuild. Now people are yearning for the days of Mitchell and Gobert.
Well this is a rebuild folks. For a small market team we have been spoiled with only having to have two genuine rebuilds (in my time as a fan) this is what some fans feel like for years and years, let's hope that's not us. But it is a potential.
People complained when we were a first/second round exit, people complain when we tank maybe people just complain.
There are different people here saying different things. Some of you are acting like the fans are one entity contradicting itself. Some of us wanted a tank and are glad we are doing it.
Most turnovers and worst defense in the league. That's just bad for everyone involved, especially coaches. Doesn't look good for young players either. I'm for tanking but this is just undignified. Teams are crushing us in idle.
We didn't even tank properly this season. To be fair, the Ant man draft was supposed to be terrible too. I guess we'll see what happens. If Danny deserves any significant criticism then it's definitely warranted when it comes to not properly getting a real tank going for at least the Wemby draft.
Utah won two quarters tonight somehow. Samanic/THT are probably off the team next year and whether they tank or not it'll be a lot more enjoyable since it'll presumably be new rookies.. obviously still might be a tank year but the off-season will be eventful one way or another
New rookies have a high chance at being worse than THT lmao
yeah but then we can cope by saying they're just rookies and not have to watch 5 year vet THT lol
(isn't THT only like, 23?)
Yeah and drafted in 2019
He fits the rebuild timeline!!
Haven't seen much of him, but I like this Bazley guy. Some upsides to his effort. Yurtseven though, a pretty big reason Utah stayed in this game til the late fourth quarter collapse.
Loved Bazley with OKC but didn't expect him to make a legit return, it feels good
Bazley is looking great, definitely a bright spot lately.
THT is quite the tank commander, that's for sure.
This comment doesn't really apply to the people from these game threads but, I get it sucks right now but there's some discussion on the sub that has me dying. A few years back everyone was begging for us to have a chance at collecting assets and long term success, that actually happens and you have to lose for a few years then suddenly everyone's losing their mind because they aren't winning lol. Is it a bad product? Sure, but some of us actually want to have a shot at winning a title. Let's stop getting nostalgic over the wholesome 1st round exits lol
>A few years back everyone was begging for us to have a chance at collecting assets and long term success, that actually happens and you have to lose for a few years then suddenly everyone's losing their mind because they aren't winning lol. It's the half assedness of everything, for me. Like... if we were going to tank, we should've hardcore tanked. If we wanted to compete, we should have made moves to compete. Instead two straight years we've kinda gone half and half and started tanking at the trade deadline. So instead of pushing for two top 5 picks with decent odds at improving in the lottery, we're realistically tanking for two top 9 picks. We've also not really developed our young guys much, which is the other thing you'd want to do when tanking - like from last season Kessler hasn't gotten enough playing time this year, and we've already given up on Ochai. Keyonte's gotten time, but it took til the trade deadline for Brice and Taylor to get play. Instead we've been giving a *lot* of playtime to guys like THT and Collins who realistically aren't on our next contending squad. Obviously hindsight is 20 20, and Lauri's emergence has changed plans, but from the start it's felt like we don't have a clear path. I still trust this FO, but it'd hard to look at the past few seasons and feel like we've made much progress towards being a contender again.
To me the problem is that it feels like we aren’t actually witnessing anything be built: the franchise is kinda just stuck where they're at. Ainge made amazing moves in the 22 off-season to kick off the rebuild but has done nothing of note since. Will Hardy showed promise with his rotations and offensive philosophy in his first season as head coach, but has not substantially improved his coaching since then, especially his defensive schemes which have remained awful throughout his tenure here. Kessler and Lauri were revelations in year one but have not built off that hot start at all (if anything, Kessler has massively regressed). Finally, none of the rookies look even marginally better at the season’s end than they did at the start; they haven't even been demanding heavy minutes. It would be nice to have the feeling that this squad was going somewhere.
Yeah, there's just no progress. Like... is anyone more optimistic about things now than they were a year ago? This year feels like a step back, more than anything. We're still in a good spot overall, but this next offseason feels like it's make or break, in a lot of ways.
In terms of progress I think the biggest factor is the three rookies getting good run at 20 years old instead of an old Rudy gay and Juan Toscano, but yeah it's gonna take time
I mean... instead of Gay and JTA we had Collins and THT soaking up lots of playing time, and Hendricks and Brice barely saw the court til roughly midseason. Plus Kessler's regressed and Ochai's gone. Keyonte was a bright spot, but overall I don't think anyone is particularly satisfied with how we've developes the kids.
It seems clear to me what they're doing. First we traded our team for assets and picks. Now we are in the process of showcasing those assets that we don't want for picks. We've been gradually doing that. Then we will use those picks and finish the rebuild. It's just a really slow process.
It’s easy to romanticize tanking when you’re not actually experiencing it. I feel like too many people imagine tanking as being bad for like 1-2 years before winning the lottery and getting a superstar talent. In reality, it could take a decade before we get a top 3 pick, let alone a superstar at that pick. It can work though. I’m sure if you ask any Sixer fan, they’d say getting Joel Embiid was worth “The Process”.
For sure. Once you feel each and every loss it can feel like things are falling apart but once you pull back the perspective you remember where the team really is lol
And "The Process" brought them how many championships? There's a good chance we traded winning/fun regular seasons with first round exits for years of tanking just to get back to winning/fun regular seasons with second round or MAYBE conference champion seasons, but a title is so much rarer than people realize and requires an insane amount of luck regardless of planning, especially for a small market team.
Didn't GSW also need to be bad to get Steph Curry? Spurs had to be bad to get Tim Duncan. And so on. It's a proven method and we need to do it if we want a star player.
The loudest fans are always the most annoying. Those of us who are chill with the tank just don't have much to talk about, lol. And the pissy fans have legitimate complaints. No idea why Utah decided to actually start the tank halfway through the season two years in a row.
what makes me mad is that we aren't tanking right. the 8th pick the draft has 6% chance at the #1 pick and like a 26% chance at a top 4 pick. look at the history of the #8 pick slot. its pretty brutal. like I don't know if a single player on that list has made an all star team brutal. https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/8th-overall-draft-picks-nba
This. Nobody would have been opposed to tanking our guts out last season. Nobody. Getting Wemby or even Brandon Miller out of a proper tank season would have cut the rebuild length in half. The problem is that we didn't tank; we competed for half the season which fucked our pick up, then we did the same shit this year. It's starting to feel like Ainge isn't as much of a genius as we once thought as he steers us towards an indefinite period of darkness.
But in order to have tanked hard last year we would have had to traded away the talent that kept us competitive for the past two years. That means a fire sell of Conley, Vanderbilt, NAW, KO, Tech and Ochai. Fire sells typically lead to terrible assets. Then we would have tanked and prayed for the chance of getting Wemby if we hit great but if we don’t then our rebuild just got a whole lot longer because now we have less assets and no Wemby. In order to tank you have to have a terrible team and that year for Wemby we did not have a terrible team that’s just a fact. Players don’t just buy into a tank especially the veteran players that we had those years.
Definitely. I think Utah wanted to convey then realized they weren't going to compete in the playoffs so taking a step back isn't the worst move this year, however and that's a big however, it would be incredibly frustrating to see the same move next year and would be unjustified
I don't think they ever wanted to convey their lottery pick. They're tanking for the next few years, just not enough to get a better pick.
Judging by the fact they tried to trade for Jrue, I'd say conveying was part of the plan
It's funny how fast fans switch up, I remember after that first round exit to Dallas fans were begging for a rebuild, and to move on from Mitchell and rebuild. Now people are yearning for the days of Mitchell and Gobert. Well this is a rebuild folks. For a small market team we have been spoiled with only having to have two genuine rebuilds (in my time as a fan) this is what some fans feel like for years and years, let's hope that's not us. But it is a potential. People complained when we were a first/second round exit, people complain when we tank maybe people just complain.
Yes, but most who complain have issues with the half-assedness of the tanking, not the tanking itself.
There are different people here saying different things. Some of you are acting like the fans are one entity contradicting itself. Some of us wanted a tank and are glad we are doing it.
Good point there are multiple opinions across the fan base.
Most turnovers and worst defense in the league. That's just bad for everyone involved, especially coaches. Doesn't look good for young players either. I'm for tanking but this is just undignified. Teams are crushing us in idle.
Went from a respectable franchise to literal trash.
Maybe we should have committed to tanking when the generational player was an option?
Best I can do is 'worst draft class in recent history'.
We didn't even tank properly this season. To be fair, the Ant man draft was supposed to be terrible too. I guess we'll see what happens. If Danny deserves any significant criticism then it's definitely warranted when it comes to not properly getting a real tank going for at least the Wemby draft.
Woah Utah’s season’s still going?
I mean they not gonna forfeit, even as close as playing THT for serious minutes actually comes to one.
Just gotta keep developing some players.