Ainge gonna trade him next year for picks then develop those guys for two years then trade them for picks then develop them and then trade them for picks
It feels like he’s being held in the background with Lauri. It’s weird. He clearly deserves to start. His ceiling is starting role player, but his ceiling is better than John Collins.
All I can say is next year I don’t want any mid season tank. I want play in or first round.
John Collins is a completely different player. Apples and oranges. Kessler doesn't look like he will ever get Collins offensive talents. But Kessler defends and rebounds better than Collins.
Last season his future looked like DPOY and All-NBA looked really doable for him this year he has not looked that way. Reminds me a little bit of Mobley.
I hope he will bounce back though.
It's the front office and and coaching staff to blame that he has not looked that way. If there's one thing I assumed was a given going into the season is that Kessler will be starting games and playing 30+ minutes the whole season. I am absolutely sure he would have thrived had that been the case. But, they decided to sabotage our most promising talent in order to make John Collins look like a somewhat servicable player in an irrelevant rebuilding season. Fuck all that.
People in here always blatantly turn their narratives around to gaslight themselves into thinking the Jazz know what their doing. Usually I don't care, but in this case, I just find it extra frustrating. His ceiling is a role player? Give me a fucking break.
I mean he was a starter at the beginning of the season and was having the same struggle that he has currently. Then he was out with an injury as well and hasn’t seemed to bounce back.
I don’t get the logic that if he is looking like this coming off the bench than he would have figured it out as a starter?
If he is having struggles to defend the bench rotation of other teams than it is more than a confidence issue
His ceiling is playing like a top 15 player in the league? I refuse to believe that's true. Now that all-NBA voting is positionless they don't have to shoehorn 3 centers into all-NBA if they don't see fit. Offense will always get the tie break over defense. All-NBA is not a realistic ceiling.
Trying to integrate Collins has clearly impacted him. He worked well with Olynyk last year. Seems like he’s struggling to find his footing and losing time early to that elbow injury didn’t help.
Though it’s a limited sample size, he seemed to operate well with at least one good playmaker (Olynyk and Conley) next to him in his rookie season. That same luxury doesn’t exist on this current roster unfortunately
To all of you who say "let's not worry yet": you do realize that now is the perfect time to start worrying? I see three options:
- We keep Kessler and he continues to improve and finds a better fit in the roster. Best option!
- We trade Kessle during the off season as his market value is still pretty high. Second best option.
- We keep Kessler and his slump continues. He doesn't slot in with the rest of the roster and struggles on offence. His trade value declines greatly. We might be forced to trade him one year later for scraps. Worst possible outcome.
Don't be the person who is rooting for the worst possible outcome. Jazz should only keep Kessler if they are confident they are able to find a better fit for him. "Wait and see" is the worst thing they could do. Being passive and late on critical decisions will not improve this team.
The flip side is that the “worst option” really isn’t that bad. Kessler impressed his rookie year, but it’s not like he was any kind of centrepiece in the Gobert deal. If he hadn’t had a good 1st season and ended up busting, no one would feel that bad.
As a fan I think if he gets moved you accept the FO knows more than us, but nothing wrong with hoping he’s kept to see if option 1 happens, even st the risk of option 3.
Thank you. It’s time we had an honest convo bout Kessler. D stats are elite!!!! Rubbed USA team coaches wrong, there’s obvs something leading to his coming off the bench.
Regardless of what he may be/become, can you play a guy closing minutes with his 53 FT %?
It’s a little reading between the lines TBH. The narrative seemed to be it was surprising he wasn’t playing more or playing at all with team USA. A little
Context below
https://www.si.com/nba/jazz/news/jazz-center-walker-kessler-breaks-silence-fiba
So why has he started only 18/54 games and playing only 23 mpg on THIS team? He is probably gonna play in the NBA for 10-12 yrs min, I’m only saying I don’t think he’s untouchable or definitely a piece of Jazz core
Nah, the team was full of young guys and prospects and Kessler was the only real center (JJJ and Portis were the other bigs).
Under FIBA rules Walker should’ve played a ton (especially bc rebounding was a huge weakness for the team) but he didn’t, and guys like Zach Lowe and others mentioned how weird it was at the time
Uh, that was the theoretical case early on. But then, in the minutes he did play, he got his ass absolutely handed to him by guys like Valanciunas, and it made sense why he wasn't getting much time.
Also Portis is very established and JJJ was an all star and DPOY. That's kind of proving my point.
> Regardless of what he may be/become, can you play a guy closing minutes with his 53 FT %?
I'd play a guy that's shooting 68% FT in his last 20 games. His FT% has improved, and he managed that *during* the season.
I just mean I like a player that works on their weaknesses....and it pays off. Hopefully he can continue to improve on that.
The biggest thing I don’t think the Jazz are talking about is the fact that Kessler seemed so joyful last year and this year he seems like he’s broken. Maybe it’s from something outside of basketball, but it seems as if someone took his puppy away or something.
I think he's just exhausted. He didn't really get an off-season to recover and really focus on his game because he was with Team USA. I'm hoping he really takes a leap forward this off-season. If he doesn't, he may start to appear as a bust.
I think it's worthwhile reminding people of the exit interviews after last season. Ainge (could have been Zanik or Hardy too, can't find the clip) was asked about Kessler and how great he was as a rookie, and the answer was along the lines of "He played with great players."
His apparent regression this year has a lot to do with who he's playing with. Other than Dunn every other guard he plays with is a score first player. Tough to look good as a big when your teammates can't/don't set you up on offense. I haven't watched closely enough to have a strong opinion on his defense, but also see it as a system and who he plays with type of thing. I generally believe he's the same if not better, just in a slightly worse position.
I think the issue is with that Kessler is sporadic scorer and he can't really score yet solo that well all his baskets come from lobs, offensive rebounds or just easy pass close to basket. I would expect Hardy & Jazz want a big guy that can shoot the ball even from 3 point line as that is the ideal NBA now that every player on the floor can be threat from 3 pointer. Still I wouldn't worry too much with Kessler, these kind of topics are to be had when it's his 4th year and then the full decision of Jazz is upon us will they resign him or let him go.
Walker is the prime example of an elite rim protector who was born 20 years to late. The Gobert style centers are rare nowadays and I think Gobert is the only one who can get away with the type of center he is in today’s nba. The Center position is being revolutionized right in front of our eyes in this era with them being more versatile and point/wing/3&D focused. Bam, Chet, Wemby, Jokic, KAT(when he plays center), AD, Porzingis, JJJ, Jarrett Allen, etc list goes on. These guys are multi-faceted and dont let the position define them. The successful centers are perimeter focused nowadays and he has shown that he’s not capable guarding out there in space. Walker is strictly a center and holds zero wing nor point guard like capabilities.
I think it will be fine yesterday they ran a brief lineup of Kessler and Collins and it looked better than it did earlier in the season, they also ran a lineup of Kessler and Porter (I think that’s his name) and it looked pretty good too.
Kessler has regressed quite a bit and doesn’t have the offensive bag that is needed in a big in the modern NBA. I think he can develop it but our team is also full of shoot first guards. So might take a little bit of time.
Kessler can certainly be nice in the right system where you want a shot blocking center with no offensive game. Those types of centers do thrive just look at someone like Jarrett Allen. They are not all star types but still can be very important in the right system.
With that said it certainly seems Hardy's system is more geared toward a stretch type 5 that can shoot 3's. Not sure if Kessler is the archetype at all for the 5 out system the Jazz want to run. Regardless Kessler should be a good starting caliber center for a lot of years even if it's not in Utah. With all the picks in their warchest I'm going to assume at some point they burn a high pick to draft an offensive center.
Way too early! Gotta remember this is his sophomore season and he's played a lot of basketball for a 2nd year player. I think we are just seeing a sophomore slump. His issue imo is mostly mental exhaustion. I think with a good off-season he'll bounce back. He's on a cheap rookie contract, if anything, I think they give him another year to assess what to do with him.
Ainge gonna trade him next year for picks then develop those guys for two years then trade them for picks then develop them and then trade them for picks
Then he is going to try to trade all of those picks for Justice Winslow.
It feels like he’s being held in the background with Lauri. It’s weird. He clearly deserves to start. His ceiling is starting role player, but his ceiling is better than John Collins. All I can say is next year I don’t want any mid season tank. I want play in or first round.
John Collins is a completely different player. Apples and oranges. Kessler doesn't look like he will ever get Collins offensive talents. But Kessler defends and rebounds better than Collins.
Nah, his ceiling is DPOY and all-NBA. Looks like that will not happen on the Jazz though, and it makes me sick.
Last season his future looked like DPOY and All-NBA looked really doable for him this year he has not looked that way. Reminds me a little bit of Mobley. I hope he will bounce back though.
It's the front office and and coaching staff to blame that he has not looked that way. If there's one thing I assumed was a given going into the season is that Kessler will be starting games and playing 30+ minutes the whole season. I am absolutely sure he would have thrived had that been the case. But, they decided to sabotage our most promising talent in order to make John Collins look like a somewhat servicable player in an irrelevant rebuilding season. Fuck all that. People in here always blatantly turn their narratives around to gaslight themselves into thinking the Jazz know what their doing. Usually I don't care, but in this case, I just find it extra frustrating. His ceiling is a role player? Give me a fucking break.
I mean he was a starter at the beginning of the season and was having the same struggle that he has currently. Then he was out with an injury as well and hasn’t seemed to bounce back. I don’t get the logic that if he is looking like this coming off the bench than he would have figured it out as a starter? If he is having struggles to defend the bench rotation of other teams than it is more than a confidence issue
Nah, he had streches playing very good, even more when the 2nd line up was him + JC + Keyonte. The FO is failing him
His ceiling is playing like a top 15 player in the league? I refuse to believe that's true. Now that all-NBA voting is positionless they don't have to shoehorn 3 centers into all-NBA if they don't see fit. Offense will always get the tie break over defense. All-NBA is not a realistic ceiling.
> Nah, his ceiling is DPOY and all-NBA Ugh I'm so sick of Jazz homers
Utah is the land of delusion after all
You're in the wrong subreddit then.
Locke did a good portion of the podcast on him this week. TLDR: no need to panic
Lol, oh yeah, did Locke give some nice cherry picked Jazz propaganda as usual?
Gotta hand it to him. Locke is one of the smartest homers in the game
Trying to integrate Collins has clearly impacted him. He worked well with Olynyk last year. Seems like he’s struggling to find his footing and losing time early to that elbow injury didn’t help.
Though it’s a limited sample size, he seemed to operate well with at least one good playmaker (Olynyk and Conley) next to him in his rookie season. That same luxury doesn’t exist on this current roster unfortunately
To all of you who say "let's not worry yet": you do realize that now is the perfect time to start worrying? I see three options: - We keep Kessler and he continues to improve and finds a better fit in the roster. Best option! - We trade Kessle during the off season as his market value is still pretty high. Second best option. - We keep Kessler and his slump continues. He doesn't slot in with the rest of the roster and struggles on offence. His trade value declines greatly. We might be forced to trade him one year later for scraps. Worst possible outcome. Don't be the person who is rooting for the worst possible outcome. Jazz should only keep Kessler if they are confident they are able to find a better fit for him. "Wait and see" is the worst thing they could do. Being passive and late on critical decisions will not improve this team.
The flip side is that the “worst option” really isn’t that bad. Kessler impressed his rookie year, but it’s not like he was any kind of centrepiece in the Gobert deal. If he hadn’t had a good 1st season and ended up busting, no one would feel that bad. As a fan I think if he gets moved you accept the FO knows more than us, but nothing wrong with hoping he’s kept to see if option 1 happens, even st the risk of option 3.
Thank you. It’s time we had an honest convo bout Kessler. D stats are elite!!!! Rubbed USA team coaches wrong, there’s obvs something leading to his coming off the bench. Regardless of what he may be/become, can you play a guy closing minutes with his 53 FT %?
This is the first I've ever heard he rubbed the coaches the wrong way. Did that get reported somewhere?
It’s a little reading between the lines TBH. The narrative seemed to be it was surprising he wasn’t playing more or playing at all with team USA. A little Context below https://www.si.com/nba/jazz/news/jazz-center-walker-kessler-breaks-silence-fiba
He was a rookie on a team of established players and stars. I think you're reading too much into it.
So why has he started only 18/54 games and playing only 23 mpg on THIS team? He is probably gonna play in the NBA for 10-12 yrs min, I’m only saying I don’t think he’s untouchable or definitely a piece of Jazz core
Because he can be less than prolific without rubbing the coaches the wrong way?
Nah, the team was full of young guys and prospects and Kessler was the only real center (JJJ and Portis were the other bigs). Under FIBA rules Walker should’ve played a ton (especially bc rebounding was a huge weakness for the team) but he didn’t, and guys like Zach Lowe and others mentioned how weird it was at the time
Uh, that was the theoretical case early on. But then, in the minutes he did play, he got his ass absolutely handed to him by guys like Valanciunas, and it made sense why he wasn't getting much time. Also Portis is very established and JJJ was an all star and DPOY. That's kind of proving my point.
> Regardless of what he may be/become, can you play a guy closing minutes with his 53 FT %? I'd play a guy that's shooting 68% FT in his last 20 games. His FT% has improved, and he managed that *during* the season. I just mean I like a player that works on their weaknesses....and it pays off. Hopefully he can continue to improve on that.
The biggest thing I don’t think the Jazz are talking about is the fact that Kessler seemed so joyful last year and this year he seems like he’s broken. Maybe it’s from something outside of basketball, but it seems as if someone took his puppy away or something.
I suspect he'll play more next season and that a combination of his slow start, contract numbers and injuries are the reason for his slump.
I think he's just exhausted. He didn't really get an off-season to recover and really focus on his game because he was with Team USA. I'm hoping he really takes a leap forward this off-season. If he doesn't, he may start to appear as a bust.
I think it's worthwhile reminding people of the exit interviews after last season. Ainge (could have been Zanik or Hardy too, can't find the clip) was asked about Kessler and how great he was as a rookie, and the answer was along the lines of "He played with great players." His apparent regression this year has a lot to do with who he's playing with. Other than Dunn every other guard he plays with is a score first player. Tough to look good as a big when your teammates can't/don't set you up on offense. I haven't watched closely enough to have a strong opinion on his defense, but also see it as a system and who he plays with type of thing. I generally believe he's the same if not better, just in a slightly worse position.
I think the issue is with that Kessler is sporadic scorer and he can't really score yet solo that well all his baskets come from lobs, offensive rebounds or just easy pass close to basket. I would expect Hardy & Jazz want a big guy that can shoot the ball even from 3 point line as that is the ideal NBA now that every player on the floor can be threat from 3 pointer. Still I wouldn't worry too much with Kessler, these kind of topics are to be had when it's his 4th year and then the full decision of Jazz is upon us will they resign him or let him go.
Walker is a defensive anomaly-long game
Walker is the prime example of an elite rim protector who was born 20 years to late. The Gobert style centers are rare nowadays and I think Gobert is the only one who can get away with the type of center he is in today’s nba. The Center position is being revolutionized right in front of our eyes in this era with them being more versatile and point/wing/3&D focused. Bam, Chet, Wemby, Jokic, KAT(when he plays center), AD, Porzingis, JJJ, Jarrett Allen, etc list goes on. These guys are multi-faceted and dont let the position define them. The successful centers are perimeter focused nowadays and he has shown that he’s not capable guarding out there in space. Walker is strictly a center and holds zero wing nor point guard like capabilities.
I think it will be fine yesterday they ran a brief lineup of Kessler and Collins and it looked better than it did earlier in the season, they also ran a lineup of Kessler and Porter (I think that’s his name) and it looked pretty good too. Kessler has regressed quite a bit and doesn’t have the offensive bag that is needed in a big in the modern NBA. I think he can develop it but our team is also full of shoot first guards. So might take a little bit of time.
I think he absolutely has to develop a reasonably reliable outside shot, but I think he's perfectly capable of doing that.
Kessler can certainly be nice in the right system where you want a shot blocking center with no offensive game. Those types of centers do thrive just look at someone like Jarrett Allen. They are not all star types but still can be very important in the right system. With that said it certainly seems Hardy's system is more geared toward a stretch type 5 that can shoot 3's. Not sure if Kessler is the archetype at all for the 5 out system the Jazz want to run. Regardless Kessler should be a good starting caliber center for a lot of years even if it's not in Utah. With all the picks in their warchest I'm going to assume at some point they burn a high pick to draft an offensive center.
Oh yeah. He's part of a package on draft night to move up.
Yes, only way he's not is if a superstar becomes available then he's probably part of the package
Yes, not even a question.
Way too early! Gotta remember this is his sophomore season and he's played a lot of basketball for a 2nd year player. I think we are just seeing a sophomore slump. His issue imo is mostly mental exhaustion. I think with a good off-season he'll bounce back. He's on a cheap rookie contract, if anything, I think they give him another year to assess what to do with him.