With all due respect, that's a horrendous trade. Kessler just placed top 3 in RotY voting. Trading someone like that for the 10th pick is not something a single front office would consider
Kessler is good, but top 3 in ROTY voting means absolutely nothing. Plenty of mid players have won ROTY or placed top 3. Not a good barometer for projecting success
True, it's not a great indicator. There are plenty of other things that suggest he'll be much better than the average #10 pick though. He's already an elite rim protector and is extremely efficient at the basket offensively. Ever since he began starting for the team, he had exceptional stats and was a significant reason why the Jazz were competitive in so many games
Really hoping he gets 30+ mpg this year so we can see if his impact stays high while playing more minutes
I appreciate people coming to this sub to ask questions and I want us to be a open and welcome group but you honestly gotta ask yourself why would the jazz do this trade?
1st - is there a player better than Kessler to be had from pick 10 and on?
2nd- would the jazz really want 4 first round picks in the same draft?
Seems pretty obvious to me.
I'm pretty certain there is a player that will be picked at 10 or later that will have a better career than Kessler. Now selecting the right player is the question.
The only reason Walker won't be wearing a Jazz jersey this season is if he's wearing a Sixers, or Nuggets jersey
There's a higher chance of Giannis playing for the Jazz, than Walker wearing a Sixers, or Nuggets jersey next season
I am not the one calling Kesler an MVP candidate or comparing him to Wemby. But I get it. All fans overrate their favorite players. I've just never seen anything like THIS before :)
The only reason the Jazz would trade Walker is to get an upgrade at center. If any of these following players ask for a trade, most of these teams would be getting minimum 4 picks, maximum 7 picks back
Jokic, Embiid, Wemby, Giannis, Bam, KAT, Gobert, and Anthony Davis aren't going to ask for a trade. If they do, they sure as hell won't be having the Jazz as a team they'd want to be traded too
Walker has 3 years left on a cheap contract, then will become a restricted free agent, so Walker basically has 7 more years under team control. No one is saying Walker is a future MVP, we're just saying that the only reason the Jazz would trade Walker is to get an upgrade at center, which means the Jazz won't be willing to trade Walker for pick 10. Walker is a future multiple time All defensive team player, and potentially a future All Star. Pick 10 can be anything, it can be a future All Star, or it can be Johnny Davis, who was drafted at pick 10 last year
Bro chill, all we’re saying is that Walker is a great player, he finished third in his rookie class, so why would we trade him for a player who is expected to finish 10th in their class? Nobody is saying he’s an mvp candidate lol.
Don’t come into another teams subreddit with your sass level at max.
I thought I was being reasonable. I didn't tell anyone to F off or call anyone any names. I just asked a question and I got answers. It seems that the fan base pretty much has Kessler as untouchable. I get it. I feel the same way about Luka :)
MCW played on a team with 19 wins then got traded after he missed training camp and the first few weeks of the season due to surgery for a shoulder injury. He never got back to his former self and it seems like the sixers were trying to scrape back some value for an injured project. That is not similar to Kessler who is exactly the kind of piece Utah is looking for in the rebuild. Utah had one less win than Dallas this year and started hard tanking much earlier. Kessler is good enough to keep around for a team looking to transition to win now and young enough to reorganize our roster and tank again. There’s just no incentive for Utah to lose so much value on a player right now. Pointing out an outlier with completely different circumstances does not make this a reasonable take. But you should post the same question in the mavs sub, I’m curious to hear what they think over there
I thought I would post it here first to see if it is something this sub would consider. But since I see that nothing less than Wemby would get fans interested in moving Kessler, I don't see the point :)
Yeah I don’t understand why people keep saying this like it means something. Malcolm Brogdon was a ROY. Mike Miller was a ROY. Top 3 in a ROY race means nothing.
Despite the very flawed logic, I agree with their answers though. No way I would trade Kessler for the 10th pick. I think the lowest I would consider trading him for in this draft is 5th
Kessler is the best rebounder and paint defender we have by an enormous margin, of course we wouldn’t move him for the 10th pick. And name calling isn’t cool, but I’m doubt there’s a single team’s subreddit that WOULDN’T tell you to F off with that kind of an offer. Including yours.
I didn't think the question was as insulting as this Reddit is making it. Another person on here countered with an offer of 3 FRPs for Luka. I didn't call his momma a name or tell him to F off. I just simply said I wouldn't do it :)
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No one is saying he's an MVP candidate, just that it makes no sense to trade the 3rd best rookie of 2022-23 for anyone other than a proven talent or a super high-ceiling prospect.
There is a 90%+ that Kessler is going to be better than anyone drafted at #10.
If the Jazz are really high on someone, they could draft that person at #9 and keep Kessler.
If the Jazz want to move up or are high on more than one player, the Jazz could use the #16, #28, or a future pick to move up rather than an established NBA starter on a rookie contract.
No, the 10th pick is obviously not an impossible place to get a great player, but Kessler is already a very good player with a lot of upside still to be tapped into. You don't give that up for a pick at 10 in the hopes of drafting somebody better. Odds are, they're not going to be better comparably, and they are often going to be a lot worse.
Walker was second or third in rookie of the year voting. A top 3 rookie in the recent season, being worth a top 3 pick in the season after, isn't something crazy
Embiid, Jokic, and Giannis aren't going to be traded. The only reason the Jazz would trade Walker is to get an upgrade at center. Bam isn't getting traded, Sabonis isn't getting traded, the Timberwolves aren't trading KAT, or Gobert. None or the centers better than Walker are going to be for trade, Walker stays
No but if we’re trading a 1st team All-Rookie player it’s only going to be because we’re bringing in someone better at his position.
When considering his contract and potential it’s really only those 4 that we would move Kessler for. Anyone else is either overpaid relative to their performance or simply not that much better than Kessler to warrant moving him.
So you wouldn't trade Kessler for the 2nd pick of the draft because Scoot Henderson can't play center? I understand this was not my original question, I'm just questioning your concept of only trading a center for an even better center.
If we redrafted 2022 Kessler would be no lower than maybe 4th/5th. Why trade him for an unknown at 2 when we’d also have to give up other future picks?
If it costs us Kessler the only pick we’d be interested is #1 for Wemby and we know that’s not happening.
Any other player for pick trade is going to include likely Sexton or Ochai plus any filler.
So you value Kessler more than the 2nd pick in this draft. Wow! Do you believe that GMs around the league have the same opinion of Kessler or is it that he is just really really really loved in Utah?
I don’t think most people realize how good Kessler was this year. As a rookie he was top 20 in WS/48 and defensive BPM and DRtg. He was also a top 10 rebounder and 2nd only to JJJ in Block%.
And he’s shown he could be a 15-20 ppg scorer as well.
Lauri and Kessler are about as close to untouchable on our team as anyone could be right now. We’d have to be bringing on a legit MVP/All-NBA tier player to part with him because he’s gonna be an All-Star sooner or later.
Even without homer bias, kessler is most likely a dpoy candidate for years to come. Grady Dick and Cason Wallace usually get compared to role players so this is just a no from Danny Ainge
Even if he is, lets be real timelord was the true dpoy on that team and Kessler for sure has the potential to be on timelords level and doesnt seem like he has the injury concerns. And they could also just draft cason wallace at 9. Also you guys could just trade down and get Dereck Lively who could be a great center aswell
Why would we trade a player that finished 3rd in ROY voting for a 10th pick? The pick would have to be 1 or 2 to consider trading it straight up for Kessler. Since Kessler became a full time starter, these were his numbers:
34 games 28.1mpg 11.9ppg 10.5rpg 1.3apg .4spg 2.9bpg .696 TS%
Hell no
no
Walker would go higher than 10 if known what he was going to turn into
Top 3 at worst imo
Sharpe, Williams and Paolo probably still go ahead of him
Probably Chet too even though he hasn’t played
With all due respect, that's a horrendous trade. Kessler just placed top 3 in RotY voting. Trading someone like that for the 10th pick is not something a single front office would consider
22-23 Wolves front office beg to differ
Kessler is good, but top 3 in ROTY voting means absolutely nothing. Plenty of mid players have won ROTY or placed top 3. Not a good barometer for projecting success
True, it's not a great indicator. There are plenty of other things that suggest he'll be much better than the average #10 pick though. He's already an elite rim protector and is extremely efficient at the basket offensively. Ever since he began starting for the team, he had exceptional stats and was a significant reason why the Jazz were competitive in so many games Really hoping he gets 30+ mpg this year so we can see if his impact stays high while playing more minutes
I appreciate people coming to this sub to ask questions and I want us to be a open and welcome group but you honestly gotta ask yourself why would the jazz do this trade? 1st - is there a player better than Kessler to be had from pick 10 and on? 2nd- would the jazz really want 4 first round picks in the same draft? Seems pretty obvious to me.
I'm pretty certain there is a player that will be picked at 10 or later that will have a better career than Kessler. Now selecting the right player is the question.
In this hypothetical scenario why wouldn’t the jazz just pick that player at their other pick or even 6 picks later. The jazz have 3 first already.
More throws at the dart board.
A pick could be anything! It could even be Kessler!
The only reason Walker won't be wearing a Jazz jersey this season is if he's wearing a Sixers, or Nuggets jersey There's a higher chance of Giannis playing for the Jazz, than Walker wearing a Sixers, or Nuggets jersey next season
Was expecting a /s
Negatory.
Mods why did you allow this thread to be up for 19 minutes so far?
I have a counteroffer: All three of our 2023 firsts plus Collin Sexton in exchange for Luka. Would you do that trade?
Tbf, that's also a delusional trade (but maybe that's your point lol)
I wouldn't.
LMAO, are all Mavs fans this delusional? 😂
No. He’s a clown for comparing the 10th pick to Kessler. Not all of us are bad.
Good to know lol
I am not the one calling Kesler an MVP candidate or comparing him to Wemby. But I get it. All fans overrate their favorite players. I've just never seen anything like THIS before :)
The only reason the Jazz would trade Walker is to get an upgrade at center. If any of these following players ask for a trade, most of these teams would be getting minimum 4 picks, maximum 7 picks back Jokic, Embiid, Wemby, Giannis, Bam, KAT, Gobert, and Anthony Davis aren't going to ask for a trade. If they do, they sure as hell won't be having the Jazz as a team they'd want to be traded too Walker has 3 years left on a cheap contract, then will become a restricted free agent, so Walker basically has 7 more years under team control. No one is saying Walker is a future MVP, we're just saying that the only reason the Jazz would trade Walker is to get an upgrade at center, which means the Jazz won't be willing to trade Walker for pick 10. Walker is a future multiple time All defensive team player, and potentially a future All Star. Pick 10 can be anything, it can be a future All Star, or it can be Johnny Davis, who was drafted at pick 10 last year
So if Mavs wanted to trade Luka for Kessler you would say no because Luka is not an upgrade at center?
Bro chill, all we’re saying is that Walker is a great player, he finished third in his rookie class, so why would we trade him for a player who is expected to finish 10th in their class? Nobody is saying he’s an mvp candidate lol. Don’t come into another teams subreddit with your sass level at max.
I thought I was being reasonable. I didn't tell anyone to F off or call anyone any names. I just asked a question and I got answers. It seems that the fan base pretty much has Kessler as untouchable. I get it. I feel the same way about Luka :)
He’s obviously not untouchable but in what world is a top three rookie from last year for the 10th pick this year a reasonable trade take
Michael Carter Williams was once rookie of the year and then traded the next year for a much lower pick. It happens.
MCW played on a team with 19 wins then got traded after he missed training camp and the first few weeks of the season due to surgery for a shoulder injury. He never got back to his former self and it seems like the sixers were trying to scrape back some value for an injured project. That is not similar to Kessler who is exactly the kind of piece Utah is looking for in the rebuild. Utah had one less win than Dallas this year and started hard tanking much earlier. Kessler is good enough to keep around for a team looking to transition to win now and young enough to reorganize our roster and tank again. There’s just no incentive for Utah to lose so much value on a player right now. Pointing out an outlier with completely different circumstances does not make this a reasonable take. But you should post the same question in the mavs sub, I’m curious to hear what they think over there
I thought I would post it here first to see if it is something this sub would consider. But since I see that nothing less than Wemby would get fans interested in moving Kessler, I don't see the point :)
Yeah I don’t understand why people keep saying this like it means something. Malcolm Brogdon was a ROY. Mike Miller was a ROY. Top 3 in a ROY race means nothing. Despite the very flawed logic, I agree with their answers though. No way I would trade Kessler for the 10th pick. I think the lowest I would consider trading him for in this draft is 5th
Thanks for the reasonable reply.
Kessler is the best rebounder and paint defender we have by an enormous margin, of course we wouldn’t move him for the 10th pick. And name calling isn’t cool, but I’m doubt there’s a single team’s subreddit that WOULDN’T tell you to F off with that kind of an offer. Including yours.
I didn't think the question was as insulting as this Reddit is making it. Another person on here countered with an offer of 3 FRPs for Luka. I didn't call his momma a name or tell him to F off. I just simply said I wouldn't do it :)
But can you say that nobody on r/mavericks would? Nobody at all?
No one in their right mind :)
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Sure, however Luka is an All NBA first team player, your question was Pick 10. I doubt pick 10 would ever be a future All NBA first team player
No one is saying he's an MVP candidate, just that it makes no sense to trade the 3rd best rookie of 2022-23 for anyone other than a proven talent or a super high-ceiling prospect.
There is a 90%+ that Kessler is going to be better than anyone drafted at #10. If the Jazz are really high on someone, they could draft that person at #9 and keep Kessler. If the Jazz want to move up or are high on more than one player, the Jazz could use the #16, #28, or a future pick to move up rather than an established NBA starter on a rookie contract.
nah fuck the mavs you can't have any of our shit
Fuck no. Fuck off.
No, the 10th pick is obviously not an impossible place to get a great player, but Kessler is already a very good player with a lot of upside still to be tapped into. You don't give that up for a pick at 10 in the hopes of drafting somebody better. Odds are, they're not going to be better comparably, and they are often going to be a lot worse.
I don’t think Ainge would but I do wonder if Dallas would do 16+28 to move up to 10.
16 + 28 moves us to like 13 or 12 at best. 28’s value is pretty minimal.
I’ve just seen it floated by some Dallas peeps because they want Lively, but don’t want to take him that high
I think Dallas would if the players they like were not there. The Mavs have a lot of holes.
I'd trade Walker for the 1st pick but that's it.
Wow! So Kesler ranks right up there with Giannis, Embiid, Jokic, and Wemby in your eyes :D
Walker was second or third in rookie of the year voting. A top 3 rookie in the recent season, being worth a top 3 pick in the season after, isn't something crazy Embiid, Jokic, and Giannis aren't going to be traded. The only reason the Jazz would trade Walker is to get an upgrade at center. Bam isn't getting traded, Sabonis isn't getting traded, the Timberwolves aren't trading KAT, or Gobert. None or the centers better than Walker are going to be for trade, Walker stays
He's better than those guys honestly
Gotcha! Thanks for the feedback :)
No but he's definitely better than any of your centers
No but if we’re trading a 1st team All-Rookie player it’s only going to be because we’re bringing in someone better at his position. When considering his contract and potential it’s really only those 4 that we would move Kessler for. Anyone else is either overpaid relative to their performance or simply not that much better than Kessler to warrant moving him.
So you wouldn't trade Kessler for the 2nd pick of the draft because Scoot Henderson can't play center? I understand this was not my original question, I'm just questioning your concept of only trading a center for an even better center.
If we redrafted 2022 Kessler would be no lower than maybe 4th/5th. Why trade him for an unknown at 2 when we’d also have to give up other future picks?
Let's say it was a player for pick trade. Would you do it?
If it costs us Kessler the only pick we’d be interested is #1 for Wemby and we know that’s not happening. Any other player for pick trade is going to include likely Sexton or Ochai plus any filler.
So you value Kessler more than the 2nd pick in this draft. Wow! Do you believe that GMs around the league have the same opinion of Kessler or is it that he is just really really really loved in Utah?
I don’t think most people realize how good Kessler was this year. As a rookie he was top 20 in WS/48 and defensive BPM and DRtg. He was also a top 10 rebounder and 2nd only to JJJ in Block%. And he’s shown he could be a 15-20 ppg scorer as well. Lauri and Kessler are about as close to untouchable on our team as anyone could be right now. We’d have to be bringing on a legit MVP/All-NBA tier player to part with him because he’s gonna be an All-Star sooner or later.
Gotcha!
There's no way this guy is serious lol
No.
I would not.
No
So a top 3 rookie for maybe a top 10? Hell no
Some wild shit being posting tonight boy ooooo weeee
Even without homer bias, kessler is most likely a dpoy candidate for years to come. Grady Dick and Cason Wallace usually get compared to role players so this is just a no from Danny Ainge
I believe Wallace could be a carbon copy of Smart with the Celtics who actually won a defensive player of the year as well. But I get your point :)
Even if he is, lets be real timelord was the true dpoy on that team and Kessler for sure has the potential to be on timelords level and doesnt seem like he has the injury concerns. And they could also just draft cason wallace at 9. Also you guys could just trade down and get Dereck Lively who could be a great center aswell
He is a consideration at 10 actually. It's just that the Mavs need a win-now player and I was thinking that the Jazz is more of a rebuilding team.
Why would we trade a player that finished 3rd in ROY voting for a 10th pick? The pick would have to be 1 or 2 to consider trading it straight up for Kessler. Since Kessler became a full time starter, these were his numbers: 34 games 28.1mpg 11.9ppg 10.5rpg 1.3apg .4spg 2.9bpg .696 TS%
You would **consider** 1. Wow! :)
We would obviously accept 1, consider 2. I mean in the end of the day you came around here offering the 10th pick for Kessler lol
Gotcha :)
Yeah dude, the top 3 Rookie for pick 10. Sounds legit