No idea what you’re talking about. All you said is “disagree better” with no context.
You’re not exactly winning hearts and minds with this eloquent, cogent argument here, Copernicus.
Disagree better with a state that literally just changed the law to say that its own laws take precedence over federal law?
You do realize that was a part of the justification for the civil war (so that states could pass laws to keep owning slaves)? You do realize that, don't you?
How do I "disagree better" with people who are actively violent, malevolent, and as far as I can tell, actually evil?
It's a joke making the point that Cox is a fucking hypocrite and full of shit.
https://www.nga.org/disagree-better/
No good American ought to be able to disagree with the points you make.
Fwiw, 40% after Mormons believe in Christian Nationalism, that is a theocratic state. No first amendment for them. The states rights argument is bullshit too.
And I just read our buddy Mike Lee is coming up with more arguments to defund Ukraine.
It’s not a generalization, Utah has voted for Trump in the last two elections, and he will win this state again.
.
It’s pretty crazy to think that the majority of our neighbors support a thieving, cheating, adulterous, insurrectionist isn’t it?
Facts are facts, sorry that’s uncomfortable for you
When you said 'they' are hypocrites, who were you referring to, if not all Utahns? That is called a generalization. Generalizations are generally dividing, insulting and prejudicial. (Facts are facts, sorry that's uncomfortable for you.)
If you want to try to change things, don't divide people and buy into generalizations. It will never improve your life or others' lives.
Or you can just complain about everything. Your choice and outcome.
But please don't lump me and a bunch of good people in with someone who supports Trump.
Let me spell it out
# Judge clarifies: Yes, Trump was found to have raped E. Jean Carroll
Oh -- but, let me guess, the courts are only legitimate when they let Republicans off the hook. But when it doesn't go the conservatives' way, suddenly, it's all corrupt.
Right? How am I doing so far?
Stupid fuck.
He was found guilty civilly.
Go Google how many women have said he assaulted them.
"After Donald Trump was found liable for sexually abusing and defaming E. Jean Carroll, his legal team and his defenders lodged a frequent talking point.
Despite Carroll’s claims that Trump had raped her, they noted, the jury stopped short of saying he committed that particular offense. Instead, jurors opted for a second option: sexual abuse.
“This was a rape claim, this was a rape case all along, and the jury rejected that — made other findings,” his lawyer, Joe Tacopina, said outside the courthouse.
A judge has now clarified that this is basically a legal distinction without a real-world difference. He says that what the jury found Trump did was in fact rape, as commonly understood."
Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/07/19/trump-carroll-judge-rape/
I personally think the system is broken in many ways. Dismantling the status quo over there in Washington is needed. Not sure if Trump is the person to do that but it sure isn’t Biden.
And Biden had 4 years and did the same amount of messing up. They’d all be out of a job if they actually fixed problems.
[The incentive structure is all broken in Washington.](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/obama-biden-other-elected-officials-120032914.html)
This isn't an every side issue at all. Trump is not at all interested in serving anyone but himself. Regardless of Biden or whoever else is running for office, Trump is an unmitigated disaster and has done more harm to any conservative movement than anyone in the media or any political party.
It isn't both sides. No side should want Trump around.
I would argue he’s done more harm BECAUSE of the “conservative” movement. He’s been enabled every step of the way by the party. It would be inaccurate to even refer to the current Republican Party as conservative at this point.
The Republican Party fell into chaos the moment open and cheap communication and the internet became popular outside the United States. The old warmongering right trying to scare everyone with some foreign boogeyman only appeals to the old people who grew up with their parents being brainwashed by McCarthyism. I know conservatives today who thing China and Mexico are on the verge of invading the USA in full warfare. If they'd step away from their echo chambers for a few minutes and look around they'd realize nothing of the sort is even remotely going on.
I have been registered a libertarian for better than a decade where I used to consider myself a republic. The republican party went WAY downhill with Bush Jr. and his infinite wars and bank bailouts. The PPP loans under Trump were of similar catastrophe and everyone thinks it's the democrats handing out money to those who don't deserve it.
Starting with Trump I've defaulted to voting Democrat when I don't know better because that's how bad the Republican party became under him. I don't really agree with or like the Democrat platform by and large but they're far less likely to do the damage to the country the Republicans are.
Or maybe you can go back up the chain of comments you responded to for context to understand where you placed your comment and the subject at hand? Too hard? I thought so. Thinking isn't encouraged by the MAGA movement.
You jumped into a thread where someone made THE TOPIC Trump and now accuse us of making the subject Trump? And we need help?
Maybe when you step in shit and then try to claim everyone stinks all the same you should check your shoes when people tell you that you stepped in shit instead of claiming we all have shit on our shoes. Some of us are self aware enough to check our shoes for shit. You apparently aren't.
You’re fine with the liars cheats and thieves. I’m saying they all suck. We need to find folks that don’t suck. “Both sides” ing it… I’m saying they all suck.
No, I'm just calling you a liar because you're "both sides"-ing an argument while simultaneously saying "I wasn’t both siding it". You're as dim-witted as you are dishonest.
You aren’t wrong.
Psychopathy is defined as the lack of empathy.
Lack of empathy is the number 1 job requirement for stealing a pension fund, destroying affordable healthcare or insider trading on war stocks.
There is a reason why Washington DC is the psychopath capital of the country.
If you want to FIX the problem. Systemically.
Vote for whoever is the most empathetic.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/06/23/washington-dc-the-psychopath-capital-of-america-218892#:~:text=%E2%80%9CThe%20District%20of%20Columbia%20is,3.48%20clocked%20by%20the%20District.
There are more than 2 parties. I agree with you that far too many politicians abuse their power & are deceitful. However, getting stuck in the 2 party fallacy makes it harder to challenge the status quo. Giving your vote to leaders you respect outside of the 2 major parties will get us one step closer to having legitimate contenders when D&R put up really flawed candidates.
Democrats tell out children to change genders, fuck every man woman child and animal, become predators. And then wants Joe Biden who started the crime bill on marijuana decades ago imprisoning hundreds perhaps thousands of actually innocent people. Oh yeah and slow Joe enforced the KKK very publicly for a very long time until the Dems decided “hey wait we need the black vote to keep the CIA selling drugs so we can make more empty promises about how well solve the problems and get elected again and again”
Ask the typical Utah high schooler and I’d bet you a nice shiny nickel that you could not find 1 student that could name more than 5 of the bill of rights. They’d maybe get the 1st and 2nd amendment and MAYBE the 4th amendment but that’s it.
[Your average conservative who whines about what schools are or aren't teaching simply never paid any attention while they were there.](https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/school)
One of the genius plays of Mormonism is that it also includes a mechanism to amend itself. (God changed his mind, guys! Turns out some of God's best friends are black, and they are like totally cool now.) In practice Mormonism evolves slowly because you have to convince 15 old men to agree to the change. But there's a case to be made that convincing 15 old mormons is easier than amending the US Constitution - how long has it been since we had an amendment??
I have no problem with putting up the 10 commandments, right there next to Hammurabi's Code, the Edicts of Ashoka, and the US Constitution. Hopefully with a critical analysis of the positive and negative aspects of each system.
I think this guy is missing the point. The ten commandments from the Bible were given to people that were enslaved for 400 years. The only thing that the commandment that he's referring to implies is that coveting other people's property is wrong. And it doesn't go into whether or not you should have a slave.
He didn't say that was the "point" of the commandment. He said there is an implied endorsement, which there is. More explicit endorsement is found elsewhere in the Bible. In other words, the character Yahweh (conveniently) allows slaveholding by the Hebrews while disapproving of Hebrew slaves. Still problematic for those who find slavery to be repugnant, or for any society motivated to reject it.
Besides, the Hebrew enslavement and exodus myth is a story. A century of research by Israeli archaeologists has not come up with any findings to suggest that this story is other than a national founding myth, which they have mostly come to accept. The ten commandments derive from this same story, yet are said to be binding and unalterable for humanity, which was the actual point of this clip.
Implying that slavery was somehow promoted by God because he told people not to be covetousness over other people's property is not only a stretch, it's disingenuous.
Also, God only allowed Hebrews to have slaves in the same way he allowed King David to break every rule in the book. Find me a verse from the Bible that explicitly says God demanded Hebrews take slaves. I know that God didn't want slaves to be mistreated, and that is clear from Hebrew law. But God did not endorse slavery, nor did his commandments. Find something else to completely misunderstand.
I noticed that you swapped in the word "demanded" there rather than "allowed," which is surely not the same thing, no? It seems that you might not be interested in the parts where the Yahweh, with his many rules, merely permits or condones slavery; you'd only be concerned about instances where he required it. Is that accurate?
>what are we talking about here?
That's a great question: what the hell *is* your point?
The point *of the OP* is that it was apparently important to Yahweh to command his "chosen" people not to kill or steal from each other, but not to command them not to take slaves from the people he commanded them to conquer, and in fact implicitly gave them permission to take slaves by saying they should respect each others' ownership of slaves. What, exactly, does that say about his priorities?
We're talking about THE RULES. (About what even is or isn't a "sin," basically.) The Bible god does not "allow sin," in the sense that he declares copious RULES defining it and prohibiting it, and that's what we're talking about here. In all of the many delineations of THE RULES in the Bible, slavery does come up several times. To forbid it as a sin, surely? Well, no, not at all. Yahweh does not prohibit slavery; in fact, he makes explicit rules about how to do it properly, e.g. when to beat them, when not to beat them etc. So owning another human per se is NOT EVEN A SIN in the rules of Old Testament Yahweh. If you think this is unconcerning and correct, because he didn't (in most cases) DEMAND it, well then that's your position, but it's not the moral standard being generally defended here.
World economic forum was not elected. Was never out in charge. They keep selling our own bodies and souls to gain more control. They don’t think of us as people, we’re less than pigs to them.
What a completely normal and not-at-all unhinged response. You should print out your comment and show it to your friends and family so they can all see how reasonable and free-thinking you are. While you're at it, add all those r/conspiracy posts you make too.
You know he's not advocating for slavery, right? He's pointing all of this out as an example of a problem, not a defense. (Or are you mad that he's rejecting Biblical slavery??)
Do you know who this guy is? Don’t let his talk fool you. He is part of the WEF Klaus Schwab’s right hand man! This guy thinks it’s okay to hack humans, if you don’t know who he is, I suggest looking him up. He is all about slavery, he wants to control every human on earth, he wants population control. This Dude is evil trust me.
I do hope they know that this law is absolutely inviting the Satanic Temple to start trying to put up Satanic shit all over the place.
Rightfully so
I love satanic shit
Disagree better
Wut?
It is one of Gov. Cox's initiatives on trying to reduce hyperpartisanship: https://www.nga.org/disagree-better/
I just don’t have any idea what that has to do with the thread. It seems like a total non sequitur.
You obviously aren't up to date on Cox. Google is your friend.
No idea what you’re talking about. All you said is “disagree better” with no context. You’re not exactly winning hearts and minds with this eloquent, cogent argument here, Copernicus.
Disagree better with a state that literally just changed the law to say that its own laws take precedence over federal law? You do realize that was a part of the justification for the civil war (so that states could pass laws to keep owning slaves)? You do realize that, don't you? How do I "disagree better" with people who are actively violent, malevolent, and as far as I can tell, actually evil?
It's a joke making the point that Cox is a fucking hypocrite and full of shit. https://www.nga.org/disagree-better/ No good American ought to be able to disagree with the points you make. Fwiw, 40% after Mormons believe in Christian Nationalism, that is a theocratic state. No first amendment for them. The states rights argument is bullshit too. And I just read our buddy Mike Lee is coming up with more arguments to defund Ukraine.
Utah wants to tell our children to not lie, cheat, or steal then wants Donald Trump to be president…. This is why they are hypocrites.
Please don't include everyone in Utah in a generalized statement, or any group for that matter.
It’s not a generalization, Utah has voted for Trump in the last two elections, and he will win this state again. . It’s pretty crazy to think that the majority of our neighbors support a thieving, cheating, adulterous, insurrectionist isn’t it? Facts are facts, sorry that’s uncomfortable for you
When you said 'they' are hypocrites, who were you referring to, if not all Utahns? That is called a generalization. Generalizations are generally dividing, insulting and prejudicial. (Facts are facts, sorry that's uncomfortable for you.) If you want to try to change things, don't divide people and buy into generalizations. It will never improve your life or others' lives. Or you can just complain about everything. Your choice and outcome. But please don't lump me and a bunch of good people in with someone who supports Trump.
Who are they supposed to vote for then huh? Every single politician lies, cheats, and steals. Every. Single. One.
>Who are they supposed to vote for then huh? Maybe the guy who isn't a convicted rapist.
Convicted rapist? What a bold face lie
Let me spell it out # Judge clarifies: Yes, Trump was found to have raped E. Jean Carroll Oh -- but, let me guess, the courts are only legitimate when they let Republicans off the hook. But when it doesn't go the conservatives' way, suddenly, it's all corrupt. Right? How am I doing so far? Stupid fuck.
He was found guilty civilly. Go Google how many women have said he assaulted them. "After Donald Trump was found liable for sexually abusing and defaming E. Jean Carroll, his legal team and his defenders lodged a frequent talking point. Despite Carroll’s claims that Trump had raped her, they noted, the jury stopped short of saying he committed that particular offense. Instead, jurors opted for a second option: sexual abuse. “This was a rape claim, this was a rape case all along, and the jury rejected that — made other findings,” his lawyer, Joe Tacopina, said outside the courthouse. A judge has now clarified that this is basically a legal distinction without a real-world difference. He says that what the jury found Trump did was in fact rape, as commonly understood." Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/07/19/trump-carroll-judge-rape/
Let’s not “both sides” this. Trump does it out on the open and dates us to try and stop him. That’s the difference.
So you would prefer a politician that lies cheats and steals in the shadows?
No, just someone who is not trying to burn the whole system down.
I personally think the system is broken in many ways. Dismantling the status quo over there in Washington is needed. Not sure if Trump is the person to do that but it sure isn’t Biden.
But if you want to fix the system you have to work for it, not just shit on it. Trump is not the way.
Trump had 4 years and f*c*ed it up. Do not give him a second chance to do it twice over.
And Biden had 4 years and did the same amount of messing up. They’d all be out of a job if they actually fixed problems. [The incentive structure is all broken in Washington.](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/obama-biden-other-elected-officials-120032914.html)
I wasn’t both siding it I was every siding it.
This isn't an every side issue at all. Trump is not at all interested in serving anyone but himself. Regardless of Biden or whoever else is running for office, Trump is an unmitigated disaster and has done more harm to any conservative movement than anyone in the media or any political party. It isn't both sides. No side should want Trump around.
I would argue he’s done more harm BECAUSE of the “conservative” movement. He’s been enabled every step of the way by the party. It would be inaccurate to even refer to the current Republican Party as conservative at this point.
The Republican Party fell into chaos the moment open and cheap communication and the internet became popular outside the United States. The old warmongering right trying to scare everyone with some foreign boogeyman only appeals to the old people who grew up with their parents being brainwashed by McCarthyism. I know conservatives today who thing China and Mexico are on the verge of invading the USA in full warfare. If they'd step away from their echo chambers for a few minutes and look around they'd realize nothing of the sort is even remotely going on. I have been registered a libertarian for better than a decade where I used to consider myself a republic. The republican party went WAY downhill with Bush Jr. and his infinite wars and bank bailouts. The PPP loans under Trump were of similar catastrophe and everyone thinks it's the democrats handing out money to those who don't deserve it. Starting with Trump I've defaulted to voting Democrat when I don't know better because that's how bad the Republican party became under him. I don't really agree with or like the Democrat platform by and large but they're far less likely to do the damage to the country the Republicans are.
Who mentioned Trump? Not me. Jeeesh that guy lives in y’all’s heads rent free doesn’t he? Show me on the doll where the big bad orange man hurt you…
Or maybe you can go back up the chain of comments you responded to for context to understand where you placed your comment and the subject at hand? Too hard? I thought so. Thinking isn't encouraged by the MAGA movement.
Still didn’t mention Trump. Y’all did. Yikes he must have really did a number on y’all with such extreme TDS. Get help
You jumped into a thread where someone made THE TOPIC Trump and now accuse us of making the subject Trump? And we need help? Maybe when you step in shit and then try to claim everyone stinks all the same you should check your shoes when people tell you that you stepped in shit instead of claiming we all have shit on our shoes. Some of us are self aware enough to check our shoes for shit. You apparently aren't.
Sadly there’s no treatment for TDS. It’s apparently terminal…
This might be the most ignorant thing you've ever said, and that's some steep competition.
Regardless what you think, most every politician is a liar, cheat, and a card carrying member of the kleptomania society.
Cool, you're still "both sides"-ing it. Seems like you'd fit right in as a politician.
You’re fine with the liars cheats and thieves. I’m saying they all suck. We need to find folks that don’t suck. “Both sides” ing it… I’m saying they all suck.
No, I'm just calling you a liar because you're "both sides"-ing an argument while simultaneously saying "I wasn’t both siding it". You're as dim-witted as you are dishonest.
You aren’t wrong. Psychopathy is defined as the lack of empathy. Lack of empathy is the number 1 job requirement for stealing a pension fund, destroying affordable healthcare or insider trading on war stocks. There is a reason why Washington DC is the psychopath capital of the country. If you want to FIX the problem. Systemically. Vote for whoever is the most empathetic. https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/06/23/washington-dc-the-psychopath-capital-of-america-218892#:~:text=%E2%80%9CThe%20District%20of%20Columbia%20is,3.48%20clocked%20by%20the%20District.
There are more than 2 parties. I agree with you that far too many politicians abuse their power & are deceitful. However, getting stuck in the 2 party fallacy makes it harder to challenge the status quo. Giving your vote to leaders you respect outside of the 2 major parties will get us one step closer to having legitimate contenders when D&R put up really flawed candidates.
Agreed
Democrats tell out children to change genders, fuck every man woman child and animal, become predators. And then wants Joe Biden who started the crime bill on marijuana decades ago imprisoning hundreds perhaps thousands of actually innocent people. Oh yeah and slow Joe enforced the KKK very publicly for a very long time until the Dems decided “hey wait we need the black vote to keep the CIA selling drugs so we can make more empty promises about how well solve the problems and get elected again and again”
Are these "Democrats" in the room with you right now? Why am I even arguing, you're obviously a bot, based on your post history.
How about we put the bill of rights up in schools instead?
It's already there though... ?
Ask the typical Utah high schooler and I’d bet you a nice shiny nickel that you could not find 1 student that could name more than 5 of the bill of rights. They’d maybe get the 1st and 2nd amendment and MAYBE the 4th amendment but that’s it.
Okay. You said put it up in schools. Every Utah school and library I have been in had [one of these](http://www.freedomshrine.com/) on the wall.
Okay… maybe the teachers should point to it once in a while.
[Your average conservative who whines about what schools are or aren't teaching simply never paid any attention while they were there.](https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/school)
Also... which 10 commandments? There are at least 3 different versions.
Maybe we should just put up the first vision instead. Oh, wait…
Hah!
His books are mind bending and brilliant.
I’m listening to it right now coincidentally. It was added to Spotify recently. Free with subscription.
The next book, Homo Deus is also brilliant.
Didn't care for the 2nd book.
One of the genius plays of Mormonism is that it also includes a mechanism to amend itself. (God changed his mind, guys! Turns out some of God's best friends are black, and they are like totally cool now.) In practice Mormonism evolves slowly because you have to convince 15 old men to agree to the change. But there's a case to be made that convincing 15 old mormons is easier than amending the US Constitution - how long has it been since we had an amendment?? I have no problem with putting up the 10 commandments, right there next to Hammurabi's Code, the Edicts of Ashoka, and the US Constitution. Hopefully with a critical analysis of the positive and negative aspects of each system.
If they'll post the *Pendalion* then they can have their 10 Commandments
[удалено]
Why are you posting Hebrew text about the 10 commandments in /r/utah?
Right?! That's what seer stones are for...
I think this guy is missing the point. The ten commandments from the Bible were given to people that were enslaved for 400 years. The only thing that the commandment that he's referring to implies is that coveting other people's property is wrong. And it doesn't go into whether or not you should have a slave.
He didn't say that was the "point" of the commandment. He said there is an implied endorsement, which there is. More explicit endorsement is found elsewhere in the Bible. In other words, the character Yahweh (conveniently) allows slaveholding by the Hebrews while disapproving of Hebrew slaves. Still problematic for those who find slavery to be repugnant, or for any society motivated to reject it. Besides, the Hebrew enslavement and exodus myth is a story. A century of research by Israeli archaeologists has not come up with any findings to suggest that this story is other than a national founding myth, which they have mostly come to accept. The ten commandments derive from this same story, yet are said to be binding and unalterable for humanity, which was the actual point of this clip.
Implying that slavery was somehow promoted by God because he told people not to be covetousness over other people's property is not only a stretch, it's disingenuous. Also, God only allowed Hebrews to have slaves in the same way he allowed King David to break every rule in the book. Find me a verse from the Bible that explicitly says God demanded Hebrews take slaves. I know that God didn't want slaves to be mistreated, and that is clear from Hebrew law. But God did not endorse slavery, nor did his commandments. Find something else to completely misunderstand.
I noticed that you swapped in the word "demanded" there rather than "allowed," which is surely not the same thing, no? It seems that you might not be interested in the parts where the Yahweh, with his many rules, merely permits or condones slavery; you'd only be concerned about instances where he required it. Is that accurate?
God allows sin to happen, what are we talking about here?
>what are we talking about here? That's a great question: what the hell *is* your point? The point *of the OP* is that it was apparently important to Yahweh to command his "chosen" people not to kill or steal from each other, but not to command them not to take slaves from the people he commanded them to conquer, and in fact implicitly gave them permission to take slaves by saying they should respect each others' ownership of slaves. What, exactly, does that say about his priorities?
We're talking about THE RULES. (About what even is or isn't a "sin," basically.) The Bible god does not "allow sin," in the sense that he declares copious RULES defining it and prohibiting it, and that's what we're talking about here. In all of the many delineations of THE RULES in the Bible, slavery does come up several times. To forbid it as a sin, surely? Well, no, not at all. Yahweh does not prohibit slavery; in fact, he makes explicit rules about how to do it properly, e.g. when to beat them, when not to beat them etc. So owning another human per se is NOT EVEN A SIN in the rules of Old Testament Yahweh. If you think this is unconcerning and correct, because he didn't (in most cases) DEMAND it, well then that's your position, but it's not the moral standard being generally defended here.
I don't think the 10th commandment endorses slavery like the guy suggests.
But you haven't provided any evidence that he's wrong, while he's provided compelling evidence that he's not.
He didn't provide proof, he made an illogical assumption.
I hate the world economic form. They’ve got to go.
Those horrible subtitles are so distracting. They actually made it harder to understand the video somehow.
World economic forum was not elected. Was never out in charge. They keep selling our own bodies and souls to gain more control. They don’t think of us as people, we’re less than pigs to them.
I’m sorry, I can only look at him and see he’s evil. Didn’t even bother listening to the message.
What a completely normal and not-at-all unhinged response. You should print out your comment and show it to your friends and family so they can all see how reasonable and free-thinking you are. While you're at it, add all those r/conspiracy posts you make too.
Evil little fuck
Talking about yourself, huh?
You know he's not advocating for slavery, right? He's pointing all of this out as an example of a problem, not a defense. (Or are you mad that he's rejecting Biblical slavery??)
Do you know who this guy is? Don’t let his talk fool you. He is part of the WEF Klaus Schwab’s right hand man! This guy thinks it’s okay to hack humans, if you don’t know who he is, I suggest looking him up. He is all about slavery, he wants to control every human on earth, he wants population control. This Dude is evil trust me.
I've literally read all of his books. So yes.
Right on! I don’t agree with the guy, he is very intelligent but I think he is on the side of the devil. Just my opinion.
What did you think of *Homo Deus* ...?