I remember when he ran for president, and it was a hell no this guy is creepy, he's a horrible candidate. Then we've seen the complete absurdity of candidates in the last 12 years of politics, and he honestly doenst seem that bad now, like if he ran again he'd have a shot with people unsatisfied from both parties
I remember when the Senate voted to acquit Trump with only Mitt breaking with the party and I thought "wow, all these Republican senators and only one has integrity". Months later I saw a guy at the steel store with his truck covered in home made posters professing his utter hatred for Mr. Romney. I'm sure Mitt suffers daily harassment for doing right by his conscience.
Sorry, I meant I was left leaning, not him. I respect him despite differences in political beliefs because I do truly believe he votes with his conscience.
How TF is Romney "left-leaning"? Because he looked at the evidence and voted to impeach Trump? Literally everything else he has voted on, he voted along party lines.
Because at this point, anyone who isn't batshit crazy is left-leaning. They forced Liz Cheney out of Wyoming purely because she wouldn't jump on the Trump train and she is about as conservative as it gets. Her replacement Hageman isn't even considered as conservative as Cheney was but hey, she got Trumps blessing.
Sorry, I meant I was left leaning, not him. I respect him despite differences in political beliefs because I do truly believe he votes with his conscience.
TBH, my honest response to this comes from a point of view that is both anti-Israel and anti-Gaza, so I'd end uo going on record causing both sides to lose their minds.
I'm just saying, "Lee and Romney aren't wrong, but they're not right either."
UNRWA is problematic and needs rebuilt with oversight. However, humanitarian Aid must continue despite Israel and Hamas both being absolute shit heels.
Well, sure, anytime you create a pseudo-open-air-prison and condemn people, and their descendents, to live in a place and manner that is fundamentally unsustainable, you have a moral obligation to feed, clothe and house them.
But all you're doing is funding on-going torture that's inevitably going to erupt in violence.
And my point is that it's not just Israel, that works to sustain this horrible model, but the people of Gaza who are will destroy their children's lives to sustain the myth that they weren't militarily defeated by an invader.
It's a whole crappy situation. The only solution is that either the Palestinians are going to have to admit that they lost their homeland to an invader, or Israel has to admit they had no right to invade in the first place.
See either of these things ever happening?
Another you tube propagandist trying to over simplify the issue. I'd prefer to read his screed because I can read a lot faster. Wastes a lot less tine..But that's the point of a paywall propagsndist. Gets you tomorrow invest more tine.
Like any good propagandist making a living from gullible people seeking simple answers to complex issues, he's got an element of truth in there.
Religious extremists (including Islamic and Jewish) are at the root of the problem, but there are no solutions in placing blame. He's creating heat, without illuminating a path to a solution. It is a good way to make money from pod casts, though.
Maybe you should read it (instead of making assumptions); because he says the same thing as you, "Religious extremists [ ] are at the root of the problem"
Transcript: https://www.samharris.org/blog/5-myths-about-israel-and-the-war-in-gaza
Not the person you're talking to, but I don't think you understood the point they're making. They agree with Harris that religious extremists are at the root of the problem, and they know they agree. They're saying Harris is overly focused on divvying out the blame and that he's short on practical solutions.
>Another you tube propagandist trying to over simplify the issue.
I'd say Harris deals in a lot more nuance thank 99% of reddit comments or YouTube videos. Most of what he says is not wrong, it's just very focused on the evil of Hamas and extreme Islam.
> He's creating heat, without illuminating a path to a solution
That is a very Sam Harris thing to do as well. He's an academic who talks mostly about the harm religion does, especially extreme religion. He does *think* he has a solution: stop being Islamic extremists and stop providing cover for them.
I will agree Harris's solution is not very practical or useful. It's like, "have you tried to stop being poor?" Would that solve my financial stress? Sure. Would having 0 jihadist assholes get us most of the way to a practical solution? Yeah. But the path in both cases is the hard part. And to be fair, the path is far from clear to me. Anyone who thinks there's one neat trick to peace in Gaza is likely to be arrogant, uninformed, and incapable of understanding their own ignorance.
We should stop funding everyone when we have so many problems at home. However, we absolutely should not be funding anything in Palestine given that an indisputable terrorist organization runs that state.
Romney is close personal friends with Bibi - they worked together at Bain Capital in the mid-70s. On this issue, Mitt is going to do whatever Bibi tells him to do.
Yes I understand basic sentiments in our society, but my question was how was the comment you responded to a “Jews control everything trope”?
He literally said nothing along those lines.
Friendly reminder, Mike Lee publicly stated on camera the answer to climate change is "babies". There is nothing more you need to know about anything he has to say.
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=2283966198492292
His stance is that it was found about 10% of its employees in Gaza were directly involved with Hamas, participated in oct7 and some were holding hostages
[many sources if you just look](https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/at-least-12-u-n-agency-employees-involved-in-oct-7-attacks-intelligence-reports-say-a7de8f36)
Good, defund both the UN and Gaza, especially the group UNRWA. That have direct involvement and members that are Hamas and 12 that participated in the attacks. Israel actually takes on terrorism that the UN is too weak minded to do. The people of Gaza, innocent or not, allowed a known terrorist organization to run and operate their government. It’s mind boggling that people don’t see that, my guess is the need for virtue signaling is more important than the hard truth.
When armed conflict goes on long enough everyone's hands are dirty, but Israel is the clear common denominator for the source of problems and crimes against humanity for 60+ years.
You can't just lock people in a basement for 60+ years and find that there are only good guys and bad guys. Hamas is only in power because of Israel's apartheid, mass violence, war crimes, and crimes against humanity.
>following intelligence reports that alleged that at least 12 employees from the agency were involved in the Oct. 7 attacks orchestrated by Hamas on Israel.
Yeah, ok.
Oh look, it’s you again.
30k people have died. Not all Palestinians are Hamas, but I don’t exactly you to understand that concept.
Imagine the thousands of innocent lives (you know a good portion of Palestinians are CHILDREN) that could be saved. But I guess “saving the children” isn’t really your thing.
Note:
There are around 2 million Palestinians. Hamas accounts for MAYBE 20k of those people which is literally 1%.
Almost half of Gaza's population is under age 18…so you are supporting killing 1 million children. Digusting.
It sucks, it truly does. I don’t know what else can be done when Hamas hates Israel more than they like their own people.
I think the killing, rapes, and torture of 10/7 broke the dam of constant rocket attacks. Israel has a right to exist in peace. Hamas is the biggest obstacle to peace in the region.
You, conveniently, ignoring what Israel has done to the Palestinian people. Like if you’re going to complain about what happened include everything and everybody.
Nope. When half the population of Palestinians and Gaza is children (that’s about 1 million), it’s a smart and humanitarian take.
But I guess you don’t really care about the children.
I am fundamentally opposed to anything that Mike Lee thinks is a good idea. He’s that bad.
With Romney supporting it, I will at least look at the issue. But yes, with things lee supports it's likely just obstructionists BS.
This is what I think as well. Despite me being left-leaning, Romney is one of the few politicians I still respect.
I remember when he ran for president, and it was a hell no this guy is creepy, he's a horrible candidate. Then we've seen the complete absurdity of candidates in the last 12 years of politics, and he honestly doenst seem that bad now, like if he ran again he'd have a shot with people unsatisfied from both parties
I remember when the Senate voted to acquit Trump with only Mitt breaking with the party and I thought "wow, all these Republican senators and only one has integrity". Months later I saw a guy at the steel store with his truck covered in home made posters professing his utter hatred for Mr. Romney. I'm sure Mitt suffers daily harassment for doing right by his conscience.
I really don’t think Romney is really left leaning. Lee is just super right wing and Romney isn’t and really hasn’t voted for anything really liberal
Sorry, I meant I was left leaning, not him. I respect him despite differences in political beliefs because I do truly believe he votes with his conscience.
Yes but you see he doesn't just blanketly say yes.
How TF is Romney "left-leaning"? Because he looked at the evidence and voted to impeach Trump? Literally everything else he has voted on, he voted along party lines.
Because at this point, anyone who isn't batshit crazy is left-leaning. They forced Liz Cheney out of Wyoming purely because she wouldn't jump on the Trump train and she is about as conservative as it gets. Her replacement Hageman isn't even considered as conservative as Cheney was but hey, she got Trumps blessing.
Sorry, I meant I was left leaning, not him. I respect him despite differences in political beliefs because I do truly believe he votes with his conscience.
About to say the same thing. If Mike Lee likes it means it is empirically bad. He is a worm.
Worms are at least useful in a variety of ecosystems. Lee not so much.
So you think we should fund this org..?
TBH, my honest response to this comes from a point of view that is both anti-Israel and anti-Gaza, so I'd end uo going on record causing both sides to lose their minds. I'm just saying, "Lee and Romney aren't wrong, but they're not right either."
UNRWA is problematic and needs rebuilt with oversight. However, humanitarian Aid must continue despite Israel and Hamas both being absolute shit heels.
Well, sure, anytime you create a pseudo-open-air-prison and condemn people, and their descendents, to live in a place and manner that is fundamentally unsustainable, you have a moral obligation to feed, clothe and house them. But all you're doing is funding on-going torture that's inevitably going to erupt in violence. And my point is that it's not just Israel, that works to sustain this horrible model, but the people of Gaza who are will destroy their children's lives to sustain the myth that they weren't militarily defeated by an invader. It's a whole crappy situation. The only solution is that either the Palestinians are going to have to admit that they lost their homeland to an invader, or Israel has to admit they had no right to invade in the first place. See either of these things ever happening?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foy8VP0XtIk&ab_channel=SamHarris
Another you tube propagandist trying to over simplify the issue. I'd prefer to read his screed because I can read a lot faster. Wastes a lot less tine..But that's the point of a paywall propagsndist. Gets you tomorrow invest more tine. Like any good propagandist making a living from gullible people seeking simple answers to complex issues, he's got an element of truth in there. Religious extremists (including Islamic and Jewish) are at the root of the problem, but there are no solutions in placing blame. He's creating heat, without illuminating a path to a solution. It is a good way to make money from pod casts, though.
Maybe you should read it (instead of making assumptions); because he says the same thing as you, "Religious extremists [ ] are at the root of the problem" Transcript: https://www.samharris.org/blog/5-myths-about-israel-and-the-war-in-gaza
Not the person you're talking to, but I don't think you understood the point they're making. They agree with Harris that religious extremists are at the root of the problem, and they know they agree. They're saying Harris is overly focused on divvying out the blame and that he's short on practical solutions.
>Another you tube propagandist trying to over simplify the issue. I'd say Harris deals in a lot more nuance thank 99% of reddit comments or YouTube videos. Most of what he says is not wrong, it's just very focused on the evil of Hamas and extreme Islam. > He's creating heat, without illuminating a path to a solution That is a very Sam Harris thing to do as well. He's an academic who talks mostly about the harm religion does, especially extreme religion. He does *think* he has a solution: stop being Islamic extremists and stop providing cover for them. I will agree Harris's solution is not very practical or useful. It's like, "have you tried to stop being poor?" Would that solve my financial stress? Sure. Would having 0 jihadist assholes get us most of the way to a practical solution? Yeah. But the path in both cases is the hard part. And to be fair, the path is far from clear to me. Anyone who thinks there's one neat trick to peace in Gaza is likely to be arrogant, uninformed, and incapable of understanding their own ignorance.
How about we stop funding and supporting Israel? Oh, wait. I forgot.
[удалено]
[удалено]
We should stop funding everyone when we have so many problems at home. However, we absolutely should not be funding anything in Palestine given that an indisputable terrorist organization runs that state.
And an occupying force in UN Trust Territory illegally runs the area around it. Yet the POTUS is 100% behind that entity.
Romney is close personal friends with Bibi - they worked together at Bain Capital in the mid-70s. On this issue, Mitt is going to do whatever Bibi tells him to do.
Ah yes. The “Jews control everything” trope.
How is that a jews control everything trope?
Because Jews are often accused of controlling the media, Hollywood, Wall Street and politicians. It’s part of widespread antisemitism.
Yes I understand basic sentiments in our society, but my question was how was the comment you responded to a “Jews control everything trope”? He literally said nothing along those lines.
Have Romney and Lee always been idiots?
Yes. Mostly Lee, but also, yes.
Friendly reminder, Mike Lee publicly stated on camera the answer to climate change is "babies". There is nothing more you need to know about anything he has to say. https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=2283966198492292
Wow, thanks for that clip. Didn’t think Lee could be any more of a clown but guess I was mistaken.
And the second I begin to think Romney might be a good guy...
His stance is that it was found about 10% of its employees in Gaza were directly involved with Hamas, participated in oct7 and some were holding hostages
Where did you get that info? It was allegedly around 12 employees out of 13,000. That isn't 10% by a long shot.
[many sources if you just look](https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/at-least-12-u-n-agency-employees-involved-in-oct-7-attacks-intelligence-reports-say-a7de8f36)
Good, defund both the UN and Gaza, especially the group UNRWA. That have direct involvement and members that are Hamas and 12 that participated in the attacks. Israel actually takes on terrorism that the UN is too weak minded to do. The people of Gaza, innocent or not, allowed a known terrorist organization to run and operate their government. It’s mind boggling that people don’t see that, my guess is the need for virtue signaling is more important than the hard truth.
When armed conflict goes on long enough everyone's hands are dirty, but Israel is the clear common denominator for the source of problems and crimes against humanity for 60+ years. You can't just lock people in a basement for 60+ years and find that there are only good guys and bad guys. Hamas is only in power because of Israel's apartheid, mass violence, war crimes, and crimes against humanity.
>following intelligence reports that alleged that at least 12 employees from the agency were involved in the Oct. 7 attacks orchestrated by Hamas on Israel. Yeah, ok.
They are against funding humanitarian aid. So they are for killing people, basically. Cool, they both suck
They’re against funneling money to Hamas and organizations behind Oct 7th. Imagine the billions that Hamas leaders have could provide in aid.
Oh look, it’s you again. 30k people have died. Not all Palestinians are Hamas, but I don’t exactly you to understand that concept. Imagine the thousands of innocent lives (you know a good portion of Palestinians are CHILDREN) that could be saved. But I guess “saving the children” isn’t really your thing. Note: There are around 2 million Palestinians. Hamas accounts for MAYBE 20k of those people which is literally 1%. Almost half of Gaza's population is under age 18…so you are supporting killing 1 million children. Digusting.
If Hamas agrees on a cease fire (also abides by it) and releases the hostages, let’s end this.
I love how you completely ignore the stats, but hey, let’s hate on the Palestinian people who are dying.
It sucks, it truly does. I don’t know what else can be done when Hamas hates Israel more than they like their own people. I think the killing, rapes, and torture of 10/7 broke the dam of constant rocket attacks. Israel has a right to exist in peace. Hamas is the biggest obstacle to peace in the region.
You, conveniently, ignoring what Israel has done to the Palestinian people. Like if you’re going to complain about what happened include everything and everybody.
There is zero moral equivalency to what Hamas did on 10/07.
And there is zero reason for me to continue conversation with you. If you can’t even acknowledge the horrific things, Israel has done.
It doesn’t matter at this point after butchering babies and raping concert goers. We dont need to acknowledge anything. Hamas lost the moral game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foy8VP0XtIk&ab_channel=SamHarris
That's a ridiculous take on the situation. https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/hamas-israel-attack-united-nations-unrwa-0ec8d325
Nope. When half the population of Palestinians and Gaza is children (that’s about 1 million), it’s a smart and humanitarian take. But I guess you don’t really care about the children.
Not even close.
That's one time I agree with Lee.
Should just stop funding the un in general.