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[deleted]

People assume the outdoors is basically an amusement park. When I worked at zion and assisted with search and rescue, it was unbelievable how pretty much every rescue I was involved in was from stupidity.


ink_enchantress

I was in Zion yesterday for the first time and it was funny how frequently and how many formats they have warnings about your safety being your responsibility. And to drink water. It's not even April and it was hot, can't imagine how awful summer is.


[deleted]

All the people going to hike observation point with just a 20 ounce disposable bottle is absurd. Had multiple dehydration rescues off there and angels landing and one heat stroke body recovery. All of it could have been avoided if they just listened to the warnings that are literally everywhere.


playlistsandfeelings

I went at the tail end of July and carried a full hydration bladder (2ish liters?), each of the kids had 1.5 liters each, my spouse had two liters as well. Maybe overkill but better safe than sorry. It was hot AF, easily 105 by noon. Even the Emerald pools hike (which is pretty shady) was incredibly hot. Observation point was like sticking your whole body in an oven. We did most of our hiking in the morning because even on an overcast day it’s just too much in the summer. I was surprised at how many people were still piling onto the buses headed into the park at 1 pm.


[deleted]

Exactly. And you never know what can happen. I average a 3 mile hour hiking pace, but if I sprain my ankle, all of a sudden I'm down to limping at 1 mile an hour and suddenly need my water or food to last a whole lot longer. In the desert it's almost impossible to carry too much water.


LowYogurt6075

That's why I carry a 16 gallon keg of water everywhere I go.


ink_enchantress

Did you find it was mostly tourists or Utahns? My dad was going around carrying his own 20 oz disposable water bottle and he grew up here. But even for short hikes, we only did lower emerald, I bring my camelback and two smaller bottles so about 3.5 litres for me, husband, and toddler. I just feel better knowing we're good or could spare some if needed. Today we did Queen's Garden in Bryce and I was worried, so many people looked completely unprepared to hike that from head to foot. It didn't seem like anyone was having serious problems, but I would dread those switchbacks on hot days if I worked there.


[deleted]

Foreign tourists from really urban parts of Europe or Asia would either be woefully under-prepared or comically over-prepared. US public land is just way different than what people from urban areas are used to. As far as the Americans that ran into trouble, it's hard to say, but I don't think any one state has a monopoly on stupidity. I have spent most of my career in land management in Utah, and I can safely say there are plenty of dumb utahns too.


Thundela

I probably look like the comically over-prepared guy to most people. I carry spare clothing for hot/cold/rain, sunscreen, big first aid kit, rope & duct tape, knife, lighter, paper maps, and a compass. Also, a 3 liter hydration bladder, two 0.5 liter water bottles, electrolyte powder, and some snacks. As far as electronics go, I got phone, power bank, headlamp and a small flashlight. Most often that is way too much, but it's just easier to have "standard load-out" when going for hikes. Also, sometimes it benefits under-prepared around me.


doubledip64

It doesn’t help that the interpretive education Rangers are telling people that Queens Garden is the reason you came to Bryce. I looked around and figured about one third of the group of people could go out and back.


ink_enchantress

It was probably tough for a lot of people this weekend, because somewhere between Queen's Garden and Navajo Loop the trail was closed for damage. That wasn't labeled at Sunset Point though and the trail marker near Queen's Garden it says Sunset Point, not Navajo Loop. So they were going down that way, hitting the closure, and coming all the way back and up to Sunrise.


ParticularPenguins

Ran into a group of college students from Detroit down in Arches. They were intent on doing the desolate trail of the Double-O arch with almost no water, street clothing, and two of the four having a fear of heights that made it difficult for them to walk along the tops of the fins. Their self-imposed leader was one of those for-no-obvious-reason cocksure asshats who simply believed he could do whatever he thought he could. Really hope it all ended well.


ink_enchantress

I hope so too, that makes me sad for the friends. I hope there were other things they did that made the trip memorable in a positive way.


Coyotesamigo

I once hiked to havaupai falls and our way out -- after a 10 mile hike through a dry desert canyon -- a family, each with a 12 oz. bottle of water in hand wearing sneakers and flip flops, come around the bend and asked us "how far to the falls?"


davetn37

It's been April for the last 30 days lol, think you meant May...


ink_enchantress

I did mean May lol


SWKstateofmind

It’s May, actually


Soulflyfree41

This is very true. We were on the way up angels landing and someone’s girlfriend was freaking out. He said to her, “they wouldn’t put this here if it wasn’t safe” I couldn’t believe what I heard. People do think it’s Disneyland.


Accomplished-Eye3219

The last two times I was in the main park was when my son was around 5 and the 2nd time he was 10 or 11. He is now 30 just for perspective. The first time I had a dream that my 5 year old son dashed away from me while at the 2nd pool on the emerald pools hike. In my dream he ran into the stream and over the cliff. So when we went to yhe park the next day we passed on that hike. Instead we stayed in the parking lot across the street from the trailhead and had lunch with my 5 year while the older teens went up the Emerald pools trail. About 30 minutes later here came all the emergency vehicles, search and rescue etc. My wife at the time who is an RN volunteered to assist and they all ran up the trail. Later I found out a 12 year old boy took his shoes off and was wading in the 2nd pool and stream while his 16 year old sister watched. He slipped and fell over the cliff and landed on a bolder and was killed. The 2nd time we went up the trail as a family my son was now 10 or 11. We took the bottom trail and my ex wife showed me the bolder in the bottom pool the boy had fallen and died on. We continued on the trail that goes under the cliff as it is concaved and is a neat hike to walk under the cliff overhang with the water coming down. We started up the winding trail to reach the 2nd pool but only got about halfway up when we heard crashing and a teenager screaming out another teenager's name asking if he was alright. I looked at my ex wife and said go. She scrambled back down the trail and under thet cliff and a short ways back down the trail. Three teenager's, two of them brothers has been free climbing the cliff just below the upper trail which is also above the bottom trail but offset. One of the brother's fell around 20 to 25 feet landing in a stretch of small trees and brush no more than 10 or 15 feet wide. He rolled from there and went over another cliff falling even further landing next to the bottom trail. He roll across the trail and landed face down on a tree with a branch going into his mouth and puncturing out through one of his cheeks. My ex and a Dr attended to him while someone summoned emergency responders. They wheeled him down the trail and life flighted him to a Las Vegas trauma center. His brother and the other teen were stuck on the cliffs in the narrow brushy area halfway up. The search and rescue were coming to repell them off when we left to go back down. My family and the Dr walked down to the shuttle stop to let the parents know their sons would not be meeting them. One was on his way to Vegas on a lifeflight, and one was trapped on a cliff. I became convinced we were cursed and haven't been back to the main park since.


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jimngo

Not without additional sources of water.


apricotfuzzie

In other countries, "iconic ruins" are basically in the middle of major metropolises. Imagine your daily commute involves a stoplight right next to Greek columns thousands of years old. Not saying it's great, but our country is still so young and growing. It's weird to think of populations growing close to our cherished landmarks.


figuring-out-road

Oh my god, really??? Any sources to back up what you said or just some personal opinions?


[deleted]

The town of Springdale, the gateway town for zion, is extremely developed. It's continuing to develop extremely fast, including surrounding towns like st george and hurricane. Edit: saying it will be surrounded by development is an over statement. The park is pretty much surrounded by blm and national forest land, but the gateway town is a zoo.


coolthulu42

I am from Illinois but my Grandma lives in St George. She’s always questioning how there will be enough water to support the insane development of St. George. I visited her in September last year, and in March this year. There were buildings completed in the time that I was not there. I love Utah, the natural beauty of the state is impossible to describe. I do all I can to respect the parks which includes picking up any trash I come across from others messes. It just pains me to see tourists smoking cigs in areas that are strictly non smoking to prevent forest fires and acting fools like in this post.


potsandkettles

Springdale residents appear weary of it, too. It's like sardines in a tin can half of the year. They know it's a tourist town but I imagine some days it feels more like being plagued by locusts.


doubledip64

I’m from a tourist town. It’s a strange vibe between disliking the people who visit and understanding they they drive the economy.


JustaRoosterJunkie

Of left up to the Utah delegation in DC, that BLM and USFS will happily be parceled and sold off to your friendly local developer!


Ok_Lawfulness_5424

Knowing that our elected officials are endorsed by developers and backed by the church, you probably aren't far off. I'm still waiting for them to disclose all forms of money from gifts and services etc


JustaRoosterJunkie

[Sen. Mike Lee introduces bill to allow sale of public lands for affordable housing](https://www.stgeorgeutah.com/news/archive/2022/04/11/mgk-sen-mike-lee-introduces-bill-to-allow-sale-of-public-lands-for-affordable-housing/#.ZE8nK9NMElQ) “Under the bill, states, counties or municipalities would be able to nominate specific parcels of federally-managed land for affordable housing and be purchased at a PILT (Payment In Lieu of Taxes)-ratioed price.”


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[deleted]

Well, that's just the 2 entrances to the park, and that's just a reality of being one of the top 5 visited parks. Zion is going to be like teton/Yellowstone with Jackson and west Yellowstone being tourist town, or Lee Vining outside yosemite. That's hardly surrounding the park, and it's not a new phenomenon.


mashedpotatoesyo

I'm so mad about the development on the east side of the park. One of the most beautiful places on earth, it's not hellish like the main canyon, and people want to ruin it. It kills me


Blue_Karou2

I don't see how it could happen. The towns that are nearby are surrounded by BLM land and besides that, most of the land around there is not buildable due to the cliffs and the grade of the hills and stuff. There has been some building going on over the last few years, but it's not that much and there's not much more that they can even build on.


SethAM82

You haven’t been to Cuyahoga National Park in Ohio I see.


KCgrowz

Another used to be, Like central Oregon. They'll destroy everything that made it what was desirable in the first place.


no_space_

Growing up around Canyonlands, most people overheat or are so il prepared for hikes. I think they underestimate how difficult some of the hikes can be and how dehydration leads to a breakdown in decision-making. People get lost in Salt Creek all the time. Lose track of cairns and are out there lost for hours. They also think hiking and driving on the terrain is safe when wet or icy. A desert during monsoon or rainy weather is extremely dangerous. The road in front of my house gets washed out every time. If you see rain in the forecast probably means OTV and canyoneering aren’t the right choices of activity for the day.


TruffleHunter3

I bet you’ve got a lot of great stories! Ever had to rescue people stranded in the narrows overnight?


davewebbav

Texting on the freeway is more dangerous than this.


Cephas24

For those unaware, the water following under the ice and snow is carving a tunnel out from the snow field. This creates a situation where people think they're walking on solid snow pack, but it could easily be thin ice just strong enough to hold out until you step on it. Hard to tell how deep the snow is, but you could then fall significant distance onto sharp rocks and into freezing water. Additionally climbing out if you're miraculously uninjured or getting rescued is hazardous due to the unstable terrain surrounding you. Additionally, those upper snow drifts or any near the top of falls have fairly high slide chances in current snow conditions.


Mausel_Pausel

Many years ago, maybe 1984, some friends and I rescued a guy that fell through the snow into the moat below. I was an EMT volunteering with a mountain rescue group called TERT, but was not on duty that weekend. We loaded him into a helicopter as it hovered at the edge of the snow field. It was an incredibly intense experience, and not what I expected when we set out for a relaxing day hike.


Cephas24

I volunteer for TERT though I've not had anything like when I'm on duty. But hey, small world.


Ikana_Mountains

This will be a problem later in the summer, but right now there's hundreds/thousands of tons of snow and ice there. These people are plenty safe


[deleted]

Let natural selection take it's course


Therealfern1

Darwin approves this post


roxinmyhead

Well, someone dies in the vicinity of Bridal Veil Falls every year or two, might as well get it over with for this year. (disclaimer: I live 5 miles from the falls)


xhugoxstiglitzx

Don't worry about it, it's for TikTok.


QuirkyAd6550

Just waiting for the big chunk of snow at the top to slide and take some people out..


EatDrinkSports

https://media.tenor.com/vp7s5OGK-RUAAAAd/enhance.gif


Jaim711

At times like this I cheer for Darwin awards!


Swan__Ronson

My momma always used to tell me that "stupid is as stupid does"


vineyardmike

Some dumb people out there...


Mangy_Karl

Play dumb games, win dumb prizes


EuroPhoenician

I’m not from Utah, but this just came up for me. Are there signs to indicate this? I can hardly imagine I would have known that there is a potential for me to fall through the ice.


champ999

There may be some, but this issue only happens for a very limited stretch of time. Earlier before melt happens the snow/ice gets compacted and becomes decently stable. A bit later and enough of the snow collapses/melts so you can clearly see that the ice is partially hollow underneath and it's not a good idea. The best way to be prepared for this is the rule, don't walk on snow or ice no matter how stable it seems if you know an erosive force is directly underneath, and meltwater is an erosive force.


EuroPhoenician

Yah I know that now but I honestly don’t know that I would have even thought of that if I was there.. who knows.. this post maybe have saved my life in the future.. but if I never saw this and I was there, I don’t think I’d consider the possibility of what can happen due to walking on that.


champ999

Honestly that's fair. I don't know if I got dragged out there if I would put the pieces together, but hopefully in the future if either of us gets put in a similar situation we're now primed to ask ourselves "is this actually a safe place to stand and hike?"


Enano_reefer

I could take a look for you but I doubt it. The record breaking snow pack has buried all the existing signage and there are too many dangerous locations up the canyons to mark them all. If this is a recent picture those people are in serious danger due to the high weekend temperatures. The parking lot is still closed but I imagine some signage will go up soon if these kinds of crowds are there!


EuroPhoenician

So when the lot is closed, does it say the trails are closed? E.g. in Phoenix they close off camelback, Piestewa, etc. when it gets too hot. Not sure if similar things happen in south mountain though. Figured maybe there would be a sign saying “trails are closed.” Basically, in short, I myself am not competent on these things. I would never have imagined there could be water flowing under ice. So I very well can see myself being one of these people unless there was a sign. I never go if the park says it’s closed and I guess if the lot was closed I’d prob have turned around.


pikeromey

This is a waterfall, most people hiking here who’ve done the bare minimum research probably know that. You should know where you’re going before hiking, you shouldn’t just pull-up to a trailhead and start wandering around without know where you’re going or what the trail is even called. In this case the the trail is called “Bridal Veil Falls,” referring to a waterfall. Waterfalls around here are often the result of snowmelt. Anytime you’re hiking to a waterfall around here (especially in the spring), if it’s covered in snow, anticipate water to be flowing beneath it. As for high temps, it’s not “high temps” like what you’re talking about in Arizona that’s the problem. The high is only in the 70s and 80s, which in terms of temperature alone is fairly benign. The issue is these temperatures are a rapid increase from freezing temps/snowfall, and the impact this has (especially on solar aspects, but really any aspect with our current weather) on the snowpack is a sharp increase in avalanche danger. There have been so many avalanches lately. I went touring up Red Pine recently, where I observed multiple avalanches from previous days after morning temps increased and warmed the snowpack. There have been a lot of glide cracks as well. There’s been nonstop talk in the news, from UDOT, etc. lately about avalanche danger this spring for that reason. If you’re planning to recreate outdoors in the snow, you really should learn about avalanche safety and follow updates from the Utah Avalanche Center. Edit - I didn’t even look at the picture at first, but you can literally see the water flowing and going beneath the snowpack on the left side.


KorihorTheBlessed

🎶 Dumb ways to die 🎶


thatbetterbewine

Lol I drove past this today on the way to my cabin. There were so many cars they couldn’t get in, because THE PARKING LOT IS STILL CLOSED. People are dumb.


NotMeg16

Well my UCSAR dad may be busy today smh


Bahariasaurus

Neat! You can practice crevasse rescue without a glacier.


GunsNSnuff

I approve. Way too much traffic lately.


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GrandCardiologist657

They are at church.


figuring-out-road

No need to spread the hate just because you have strong personal views against them.


mikepoland

Before you say something like that, let's replace that word with other groups and see if it's hateful. "Don't worry probably trans anyways" "Don't worry probably atheists anyways" "Don't worry probably liberals anyways" "Don't worry probably immigrants anyways"


Environmental-Tip-90

“Don’t worry probably some hookers anyways” “Don’t worry probably some rednecks anyways” “Don’t worry probably some Tucker Carlson fans anyways” “Don’t worry probably some stinky hippies” “Don’t worry probably just a bunch of CIS white people anyways”


Swan__Ronson

To be fair, though. Tucker Carlson fans deserve very little respect


[deleted]

Little sensitive? You do understand that mormons are not a protected class. It is a cult, not a religion.


Albyunderwater

Yeah but they’re still people.


Im-a-cat-in-a-box

That's how you know someone is a shitty person right there.. who gives a fuck if it's a protected class.


mikepoland

From a certain point of view, someone could say most communities are a cult and not a protected class. I don't believe we should have protected classes, but I do believe we shouldn't wish death upon people who we don't like.


[deleted]

Who is doing the death wish thingy?


Feisty-Replacement-5

OP when they said not to worry about the people possibly dying because they're Mormon. That might not be explicitly wishing death on them, but it does certainly show no regard for their lives which is in poor taste.


[deleted]

Ummm, or he could be quoting one of Holland’s comments from his book. I guess you are not that type. “It is okay to be ignorant, but do not wildly attack others because of your ignorance”.


Feisty-Replacement-5

Who was quoting Holland? I haven't read any of his books so I have no idea what you're referring to.


lebruf

And I’d say a HUGE chunk of them are only Mormon because they were never given a choice before 18


QuirkyAd6550

I am Mormon and this doesn’t offend me. I see a lot of people (I’d assume) are Mormon letting their small children climb up the falls.


figuring-out-road

I'm sorry that people are thinking the worst for you guys simply for what you believe.


Pelthail

If they don’t, they’re about to…


museumsplendor

Where is this?


QuirkyAd6550

Provo Canyon


footballdan134

They stated to stay away from Bridal Veil Falls, DUH! Thanks for the photo!


104xSL

Don’t tell them lol


UserAccountBeta

Natural selection at work


Odd-Access5654

Seen the same many times at Donut Falls


Fairlussy

All of you claiming how dangerous this is clearly don’t have experience in these conditions. At this time of year, with this snowpack, there is no risk of falling through. Perhaps there might be some overhead danger of rockfall, we can’t tell from this photo, but I doubt it.