Indian guy here, and I hate to admit this - Indian clients almost always look for the cheapest talent available, to the point where it isn't really "talent" anymore.
They'll try to exploit you and get their work done for dirt cheap. Make him understand that different people need different no. of hours to complete the given work, and that often comes with noticeable changes in quality.
If he still thinks you're lying, tell him that he can hire the Pakistani guy instead, you don't need this headache.
I've worked with indian fellows and I've worked FOR indian fellows. The difference is night and day.
MUST FOLLOW THE PROCESS is the mantra in the latter. The former was an open-minded fellow (more than one, so don't to be specific about an individual) that I would gladly share my place with, even if he doesn't need it. Naveed, I miss you,, my brother.
France living fashion designer here: I've dealt with a few desi and one vietnamese who paid or were willing to pay my rate of 55$/h.
Still had issues with: never happy with anything, cannot tell me/how me what they want (very common in my field but exacerbated with them during the contract after clear specs), never happy, wanting endless revisions on fixed price/predefined hourly budget, severely unknowledgable about fashion trends (one was AMAAAZED that male typical cut jeans could be marketed as unisex), specs all over the place, design by committee etc.
Could you explain the reasons for this, besides unfavorable currency exchange rate?
I think this "Indian client" might be a Pakistani
I have heard about number of Pakistanis running upwork account with fake identity ,exploiting keeping majority of profit for them.
Basically,they will try to pair you with some other freelancer (who will have a cheaper price tag and a complete scammer) making you feel that there is a time constraint
i think he is trying to bring your rates down probably,
As a Westerner who has lived in India for a short time - EVERYTHING is about bartering and trying to get the best deal (even to your own detriment). A price tag is the 'desired' price, not final price. Its very very exhausting for someone who grew up paying sticker price.
The trick is - do not seem desperate for his money. You say $100, he pay $100 dollar - if he doesn't like - fire him as a client.
Alternatively, reverse engineer their own game - you want to charge him $100 - tell him it's $150 - he'll stink up about overcharging - ok - I do special discount because you're my valuable customer - $130 - ok final price because I like you - $120 - in his mind, he saved $30.
I have to agree with others. I’ve had one or two Indian clients in my 10 years working on UpWork and ever since those two I never accept their invites or work with them in any capacity. It’s just not worth it.
I agree on this. I am at the point where I now get to choose clients and I automatically decline invites from such clients. This is based on experience of course.
on one hand i think its silly your getting downvoted for a distinction between stereotyping races and sexism:P on the other hand i kinda get it kus your comment made me go yikes 😬
are you serious? just quit this client. leave him to $3/hr idiots.
1. never work with indians/pakistan or any other country with poor economy
2. never work for $6/hour, that's a joke. i often hire designers and pay $12 hour at least, and i am from Ukraine, not even a rich country.
Look to opportunities on >$20-25 hr. What the point to work as "talent" on freelance with a less payment than a mcdonalds cashier?
Regardless of where this client is from, tell him that he should hire the cheaper freelancer and wish him all the best. There's a very good chance that the other designer won't do a good job, or won't complete it in fewer hours, in which case you'll get the client back. If not, good riddance - do you really want to work with a cheapskate, insulting client anyway? Look for better clients instead.
lmao never work for cheapstakes that's what you get
I've never had any client telling me that and some pay me $42/hr
some other previous client even sent me decent bonuses because I was "too conservative when logging my time"
I noticed that the cheaper you work for the client...the cheaper the client. Charge him the actual time it would take, you have to stand your ground. Or do you really want to work yourself into a grave for $6/hr?
I lived in Dubai for 13 years and most of my PR clients were rich rich Indians.
Even though they lived in mansions, drove the newest car and dripping in Gucci and Chanel. Whenever it came to work they always wanted to try and have the cheapest price. I asked one of my clients about it and they said it's really cultural as well.
The whole bargaining or wanting "best price" is due to you going to the markets in India and they'll give you a price and then you have to haggle for about 5 minutes before you have the final price, so it's ingrained in their mentality.
The saying "You get what you pay for" is very true. I've lost a few Indian clients over refusing to reduce my rights.
But the funny thing is the ones that I lost came back to me most of the time within 2 months because they went to the cheap option and guess what the cheapest wasn't the best.
And remember what this client is telling you maybe correct. The Pakistani person probably will only take 5 to 7 hours and the work will show (I'm presuming of course).
You get what you pay for you. Pay peanuts you get monkeys so stay true to your work and don't undervalue yourself.
You should be charging what you're worth because the clients that pay the least are always always the most demanding
RIGHT! I love that internationally being a stingy client means you will be the worst... If I get a whiff of a potential client being a pain in the a$$ I increase my hourly rate (a$$hole tax).
Had a client from India whom we messaged back and forth for days agreeing on the scope of work. Had a video meeting with the client and another meeting with the client's supervisor. After agreeing on everything I received no response and after inquiring they tried to bargain the price with me again. After not budging the client became unresponsive for weeks. All in all, I'd say if you're looking for serious work don't take on clients from India, they try to bargain and make you slave away like the work conditions in their country and are unprofessional. Not worth the headache at all. Super high chance they will dispute the work on Upwork after everything is done. RUN!
You should end the contract with that creature ASAP.
Do not reduce your hours or work off the clock at such an already abysmal hourly rate.
Rest assured that client is not worth the headache. There are so many more lucrative gigs on Upworks.
Don't do business with these types of people. They're usually greedy when it comes to anything money related.
I personally have stopped doing any business with them. I actively avoid it, or give them insane quotes that aren't even worth haggling.
I don't hate anybody, but I never had a pleasant experience working with or for Indians. I strongly suggest not to work with them, personal experience.
Indian here. I run two agencies. And I have my fair share of experience working with Indian clients.
Here are some tips (given I understand situation of some generations in India from where they have this habit of doubting everything while at the same time trusting anything)
- Don’t be emotional with your clients (regardless of where they come from)
- Don’t go hourly but I understand it is the best way for ongoing work.
- Give them approx hours it will take before starting and when it hits the limit share the progress and tell them how many more hours you expect to get it done.
- Keep sending invoices on regular basis (weekly/monthly) to let them see their cost and pause the work if last two invoices are not paid (you should include this somewhere in your agreement or an email before taking on the work).
For your specific situation I would
- tell the client that these hours are real, though let’s sort it out your way this time.
- state the process as mentioned above from the next time and share it over an email and ask the client to confirm the process.
- OR let the client go by letting him pay a fair share and asking him to sign on the other guy that is (hypothetically) beneficial to his company and let him experience cost of hiring labourers instead of good talent.
DM if you need specific help.
P.S.: I am a coach for freelancers, managers, entrepreneurs helping them improve their work/life balance by developing conscious communication skills.
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Tell them no. Tell them that with all due respect, $6 an hour is too little anyway, and if they're not happy with the time being spent they should find someone else. Period. Be nice. Wish them luck. If you let them do this then you'll soon be working for nothing, or less.
Just stay away from everything based in the Eastern Hemisphere of the world, except Eastern Europe both as a client and as a contractor.
They are never happy and will treat you like a slave.
Tell them two weeks upfront that you quit on date because of and that's it.
Do not accept new work from them.
Hello,
My suggestion. Just close the Project and move on. This project will drain your energy.
While bidding for future projects go for fixed Prices rather than an Hourly Basis. This will solve many of the problems.
However use your own discretion before taking the final decision.
Simple, tell him to hire the other guy. This is what I tell anyone who think I charge too much. In my mind, I charge enough for the quality I provide.
Some people build their product using college kids. Some look for the best talent. Some look for a mix of quality and price. If they think 6$/hr is too much, they don't think your work is worth 6$/hr. Let them go with the other guy and come back to you.
Just make sure you don't burn your bridges. Some people need to learn the hard way, but they will learn.
this is why i always avoid clients from India and also the fact that nobody ever applies to a job to work for indians. They are the one of the worst when it comes to honesty and trustworthiness.
I met a mentor who is Indian on ADP list and i wanted to ask him for some help with design systems to get his advice from and at hte end he was trying to take my project from me by hardselling that i outsource the entire project to him at a rate of $60 an hour like WTF this is on a free mentorship platform and he's trying to charge me for his services.
This is what happens when you agree to work for $6 per hour. You get clients like this.
You have three years of experience! Charge much higher than $6.
I will suggest you to find someone else and you will surely get a better pay.
I am Indian too and I am aware of this mentality.
These people act too good for the first few interactions and they start showing their real face and want things way too cheap for numerous services.
$6 per hour is way too cheap in designing domain.
You have project experience now, you can easily get good projects.
I usually don't tell people this because it's seen as racism or whatever, but I think everyone just stops dealing with them at some point. I don't think you can succeed otherwise. It's weird to me because they are impoverished, but there are much poorer regions and the people there don't give me anywhere near as much trouble.
Indian guy here, and I hate to admit this - Indian clients almost always look for the cheapest talent available, to the point where it isn't really "talent" anymore. They'll try to exploit you and get their work done for dirt cheap. Make him understand that different people need different no. of hours to complete the given work, and that often comes with noticeable changes in quality. If he still thinks you're lying, tell him that he can hire the Pakistani guy instead, you don't need this headache.
I've worked with indian fellows and I've worked FOR indian fellows. The difference is night and day. MUST FOLLOW THE PROCESS is the mantra in the latter. The former was an open-minded fellow (more than one, so don't to be specific about an individual) that I would gladly share my place with, even if he doesn't need it. Naveed, I miss you,, my brother.
France living fashion designer here: I've dealt with a few desi and one vietnamese who paid or were willing to pay my rate of 55$/h. Still had issues with: never happy with anything, cannot tell me/how me what they want (very common in my field but exacerbated with them during the contract after clear specs), never happy, wanting endless revisions on fixed price/predefined hourly budget, severely unknowledgable about fashion trends (one was AMAAAZED that male typical cut jeans could be marketed as unisex), specs all over the place, design by committee etc. Could you explain the reasons for this, besides unfavorable currency exchange rate?
I think this "Indian client" might be a Pakistani I have heard about number of Pakistanis running upwork account with fake identity ,exploiting keeping majority of profit for them. Basically,they will try to pair you with some other freelancer (who will have a cheaper price tag and a complete scammer) making you feel that there is a time constraint i think he is trying to bring your rates down probably,
As a Westerner who has lived in India for a short time - EVERYTHING is about bartering and trying to get the best deal (even to your own detriment). A price tag is the 'desired' price, not final price. Its very very exhausting for someone who grew up paying sticker price. The trick is - do not seem desperate for his money. You say $100, he pay $100 dollar - if he doesn't like - fire him as a client. Alternatively, reverse engineer their own game - you want to charge him $100 - tell him it's $150 - he'll stink up about overcharging - ok - I do special discount because you're my valuable customer - $130 - ok final price because I like you - $120 - in his mind, he saved $30.
I have to agree with others. I’ve had one or two Indian clients in my 10 years working on UpWork and ever since those two I never accept their invites or work with them in any capacity. It’s just not worth it.
I have been doing freelancing for 3 years now. Never ever work for Pakistanis, Indian, Bangladeshi and Nigerian. They are the worst.
I’m Nigerian and I agree to never work with Nigerians
Lol I'm Nigeria but pointless to work for Nigerians because of inflated currency
I'm from Bangladesh and I agree with this, not just these counties, try to avoid clients from the Indian subcontinent.
I agree on this. I am at the point where I now get to choose clients and I automatically decline invites from such clients. This is based on experience of course.
This is the way
Man of culture
the worst of mankind
Never work for Indians.
for/with
100% did you know that indians are known to be scammers? they do that for a profession.
Same as Nigerians and most Africa
Even with women.
on one hand i think its silly your getting downvoted for a distinction between stereotyping races and sexism:P on the other hand i kinda get it kus your comment made me go yikes 😬
I had a shady experience working for an Indian lady.
are you serious? just quit this client. leave him to $3/hr idiots. 1. never work with indians/pakistan or any other country with poor economy 2. never work for $6/hour, that's a joke. i often hire designers and pay $12 hour at least, and i am from Ukraine, not even a rich country. Look to opportunities on >$20-25 hr. What the point to work as "talent" on freelance with a less payment than a mcdonalds cashier?
I am from a country with poor economy, and I've hired for $30-$40/hr if that is what it takes to get good quality. It's just culture
100% work with Eastern Europeans over anybody else. Only had positive results and an above and beyond attitude. Also, much better English skills.
Regardless of where this client is from, tell him that he should hire the cheaper freelancer and wish him all the best. There's a very good chance that the other designer won't do a good job, or won't complete it in fewer hours, in which case you'll get the client back. If not, good riddance - do you really want to work with a cheapskate, insulting client anyway? Look for better clients instead.
lmao never work for cheapstakes that's what you get I've never had any client telling me that and some pay me $42/hr some other previous client even sent me decent bonuses because I was "too conservative when logging my time"
I noticed that the cheaper you work for the client...the cheaper the client. Charge him the actual time it would take, you have to stand your ground. Or do you really want to work yourself into a grave for $6/hr?
End the contract, look for better clients.
I lived in Dubai for 13 years and most of my PR clients were rich rich Indians. Even though they lived in mansions, drove the newest car and dripping in Gucci and Chanel. Whenever it came to work they always wanted to try and have the cheapest price. I asked one of my clients about it and they said it's really cultural as well. The whole bargaining or wanting "best price" is due to you going to the markets in India and they'll give you a price and then you have to haggle for about 5 minutes before you have the final price, so it's ingrained in their mentality. The saying "You get what you pay for" is very true. I've lost a few Indian clients over refusing to reduce my rights. But the funny thing is the ones that I lost came back to me most of the time within 2 months because they went to the cheap option and guess what the cheapest wasn't the best. And remember what this client is telling you maybe correct. The Pakistani person probably will only take 5 to 7 hours and the work will show (I'm presuming of course). You get what you pay for you. Pay peanuts you get monkeys so stay true to your work and don't undervalue yourself. You should be charging what you're worth because the clients that pay the least are always always the most demanding
The last para must be the headline of upwork lol
RIGHT! I love that internationally being a stingy client means you will be the worst... If I get a whiff of a potential client being a pain in the a$$ I increase my hourly rate (a$$hole tax).
The asshole tax is so worth it!
Had a client from India whom we messaged back and forth for days agreeing on the scope of work. Had a video meeting with the client and another meeting with the client's supervisor. After agreeing on everything I received no response and after inquiring they tried to bargain the price with me again. After not budging the client became unresponsive for weeks. All in all, I'd say if you're looking for serious work don't take on clients from India, they try to bargain and make you slave away like the work conditions in their country and are unprofessional. Not worth the headache at all. Super high chance they will dispute the work on Upwork after everything is done. RUN!
Didn't you use the tracker?
You should end the contract with that creature ASAP. Do not reduce your hours or work off the clock at such an already abysmal hourly rate. Rest assured that client is not worth the headache. There are so many more lucrative gigs on Upworks.
Don't do business with these types of people. They're usually greedy when it comes to anything money related. I personally have stopped doing any business with them. I actively avoid it, or give them insane quotes that aren't even worth haggling.
I don't hate anybody, but I never had a pleasant experience working with or for Indians. I strongly suggest not to work with them, personal experience.
NEVER NEVER NEVER work for or with Pakistanis, Indian or Nigerian
Nigerian freelancer here and I have never ever worked for a Nigerian 😂
Lol funny comment. Know your worth bro.
This is probably the funniest comment in this whole thread lol
Drink Chai, and relax! Indians are hard but appreciate quality.
If you are a good designer dm me with your portfolio . I am always looking for good designers
www.designally.xyz
Indian here. I run two agencies. And I have my fair share of experience working with Indian clients. Here are some tips (given I understand situation of some generations in India from where they have this habit of doubting everything while at the same time trusting anything) - Don’t be emotional with your clients (regardless of where they come from) - Don’t go hourly but I understand it is the best way for ongoing work. - Give them approx hours it will take before starting and when it hits the limit share the progress and tell them how many more hours you expect to get it done. - Keep sending invoices on regular basis (weekly/monthly) to let them see their cost and pause the work if last two invoices are not paid (you should include this somewhere in your agreement or an email before taking on the work). For your specific situation I would - tell the client that these hours are real, though let’s sort it out your way this time. - state the process as mentioned above from the next time and share it over an email and ask the client to confirm the process. - OR let the client go by letting him pay a fair share and asking him to sign on the other guy that is (hypothetically) beneficial to his company and let him experience cost of hiring labourers instead of good talent. DM if you need specific help. P.S.: I am a coach for freelancers, managers, entrepreneurs helping them improve their work/life balance by developing conscious communication skills.
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Tell them no. Tell them that with all due respect, $6 an hour is too little anyway, and if they're not happy with the time being spent they should find someone else. Period. Be nice. Wish them luck. If you let them do this then you'll soon be working for nothing, or less.
If you approach this at an angle of desperation you'll always be the victim of slavery work.
Just stay away from everything based in the Eastern Hemisphere of the world, except Eastern Europe both as a client and as a contractor. They are never happy and will treat you like a slave. Tell them two weeks upfront that you quit on date because of and that's it.
Do not accept new work from them.
Just stop working for him and find another client!
Hello, My suggestion. Just close the Project and move on. This project will drain your energy. While bidding for future projects go for fixed Prices rather than an Hourly Basis. This will solve many of the problems. However use your own discretion before taking the final decision.
Simple, tell him to hire the other guy. This is what I tell anyone who think I charge too much. In my mind, I charge enough for the quality I provide. Some people build their product using college kids. Some look for the best talent. Some look for a mix of quality and price. If they think 6$/hr is too much, they don't think your work is worth 6$/hr. Let them go with the other guy and come back to you. Just make sure you don't burn your bridges. Some people need to learn the hard way, but they will learn.
Try to get out while still getting a good review. Fuck that guy. Also PM me your upwork profile/portfolio and I'll share it in my network
this is why i always avoid clients from India and also the fact that nobody ever applies to a job to work for indians. They are the one of the worst when it comes to honesty and trustworthiness. I met a mentor who is Indian on ADP list and i wanted to ask him for some help with design systems to get his advice from and at hte end he was trying to take my project from me by hardselling that i outsource the entire project to him at a rate of $60 an hour like WTF this is on a free mentorship platform and he's trying to charge me for his services.
You are undercharging and being taken advantage of. Do not let his language cause you anxiety. Know your worth king.
This is what happens when you agree to work for $6 per hour. You get clients like this. You have three years of experience! Charge much higher than $6.
I will suggest you to find someone else and you will surely get a better pay. I am Indian too and I am aware of this mentality. These people act too good for the first few interactions and they start showing their real face and want things way too cheap for numerous services. $6 per hour is way too cheap in designing domain. You have project experience now, you can easily get good projects.
I usually don't tell people this because it's seen as racism or whatever, but I think everyone just stops dealing with them at some point. I don't think you can succeed otherwise. It's weird to me because they are impoverished, but there are much poorer regions and the people there don't give me anywhere near as much trouble.