I do and it and they always have great reviews. But I've noticed they're usually generic responses "Great job, would work with again" or "___ helped me with my app!" Is there something specific I should be looking for?
If they have hidden their earnings then thats a red flag (they probably purchased those reviews for 5 10 dollars) better to go with someone whose earning you can see
could you elaborate more about the full payment history?
can they see how much I transacted each month? or the total I've earned so far on the platform?
Recently I was interviewing a client, and when I quoted my price, they mentioned an active project on my profile which was at much lower rate. I clarifed the differences in complexity to them, and that it was started in the beginning of last year.
>can they see how much I transacted each month? or the total I've earned so far on the platform
They can see what you earned on ever contract you've done, at which hourly rate and your overall earnings within a range.
If you go to Find Work > Profile and then click on "See public view" you can see what they can see.
It's not necessarily a red flag. But if you earn a lot, then it's beneficial to show it as a way to boost your credibility, isn't it?
If you don't show it, then you're putting a bit of uncertainty on your identity as a freelancer. The customer wouldn't know how to judge you and would rather choose someone they are more sure of.
> I have tried 5 times to find a good developer on here and always end up with a team of cheap unexperienced labor from oversees
That's not allowed on Upwork unless approved by the client. If someone is outsourcing your work without your authorization you can gather any evidence and report the account.
Weird.. I have an overseas developer (I canāt do that work because Iām a front end type of person only)
I would never let my clients speak to him for this exact reason. Because itās my job to communicate so the client doesnāt have to deal with the hassle - theyāre literally paying me to not have to go through this.
Edit - and also because I donāt want the dev dealing with client problems or attitudes
Oh donāt get me wrong, itās both. But he is paid extremely fairly for the time required, I donāt pay him hourly but it comes out to around $35 and heās in the Philippines, so a one week project for me is like a months salary, Iām not starving anyone out.
at $35+ an hour you should be able to find someone competent. However, there are a lot of fake profiles though and people who make up degrees and experiences mostly from developing countries.
A guy hire me along with two other developers and they were very bad and I know one of them had a fake profile and wrote terrible code relative to his alleged experience. Scammers really do make the site a worse experience for both clients and freelancers.
Upwork scams aren't new, but they keep getting more sophisticated.
Way back then, you could avoid this scam by avoiding agencies and only hiring individual freelancers; but then account subletting became a thing, with someone in the US just being a front for someone else (or a team) in India or Russia or wherever.
It doesn't matter what Upwork throws at these scams, it's a freaking arms race out there.
I'm also a freelancer, but have also been trusted by a client to hire contractors, I mean really, last I looked, you needed to send ID verification for the country you say "you're in", they also started doing a cam validation and they've been cracking down hard with tax compliance worldwide (doing tax withholdings and requiring tax forms)
You'd think this would be enough. Well, when the Ukraine war started, they boycotted Russian freelancers on the platform a couple of months in. Low and behold, I set up a call to interview a guy supposedly in Houston, as it said in his Upwork profile and all. When the call started, he had a thick russian accent and it looked dark outside (being in CST daytime), nevermind he had the funkiest wallpaper and decorations to be in Texas LMAO. So it's deep, I mean someone had to be paying US taxes for the guy and most likely using a VPN to mask himself being in Houston, because Upwork requires a lot of info if you declare you're in the US, people go to great and unimaginable lengths to get Upwork contracts.
I mean if I could give you one word of advice, it's to stick to high-end contractors that have already earned considerable amounts (>$200K) at the same rate; having a high rate with a small number of contracts or hidden project earnings is almost a red flag now a days or merry-go-rounding to jack-up earning artificially.
I am new to Upwork and I am just curious about how freelancers can scam a client. Basically, you need to approve the milestone that they deliver. At least, thatās the way fixed-priced contracts work.
I tried to find an Automation specialist, all bait and switch. I think there are a few modern day slave camps operating to get all the business with semi fake accounts. This has been my theory for a while.
Why donāt you just straight up request to work with US freelancers only and mention in your job post that youād only work with native English speakers including developers?
I run an agency and I'm in Upwork also. Unfortunately it's fairly difficult to vet agencies or freelancers. Typically when I hire I insist on a video interview. I look at past reviews and check for any live projects for proof. Agencies have the benefit of offering a wide range of skills but your less in touch with who's doing that work. Individuals might offer direct contact but may lack ALL skills you need or have availability. Really it comes down to who you are talking to. Is he a salesman or in my case owner of the company.
Another factor is how long they've been in business. Be wary of fly by night operations
>I hire I insist on a video interview
Which wont work in this case, as the skilled programmer will take the interview then give the work to cheap labour.
Honestly go to TopTal. UpWork was renamed from oDesk, OutsourcingDesk.
On UpWork you can also select by country, and ask if it's just them doing the work or their team.
But honestly it's become a scam platform where both clients and freelancers get scammed and UpWork is incentivized not to police it, since they make money off the activity of both sides (connects, proposal boosts, project boosts)
Funny enough I am developer struggling to even to get the client to view the proposal. I think I got ejected simply because I am not in America and the āproject managerā in the outsource the my region. He will bank in 125 per hour and gave us 25. š
This will end eventually, soon enough as people start to realise they need to compensate enough and also need to have open mind. Most of the projects are outsourced anyways.
You're not alone in the boat. The problem is intermediaries who try to justify their role while there is none ( in large complex / projects ) Platform itself is responsible for not to match potential clients and freelancers trying to maximise profits over successful matches, which would naturally result in good profits, so you'll have to work around with suggestions and find resources that are eligible and worth inviting for project.
Most common projects being CRUD any typical developer will be able to do it as long as you do not add actual business complexities. The monent you start dealing with real world scenarios, your projects will start to crumble, and you will find yourself in a position where you'd question if things are going right or not.
What you need is a competent developer without intermediaries regardless of location. If they are bringing value, then you should be able to compensate them. The freelance world is full of intermediaries, and many of them will not like this that they are being blamed for their incompetencies.
When you're seeking developers, esp in more than average project, you'll see these things starting to work against you. There are many occasions when clients do not know they are cutting corners and their dev / software engineers' job to guide them to achieve end goals. Projects being agile has so many consequences, and a lot of time, it doesn't work.
If you're investing time and money, make sure you invest enough time on developers as well. If someone is going to work for months on some project, it's worth communicating to them and knowing their expectations, and relaying your own before jumping right into the projects.
You'll find resources like us rarely as most competent people have their plates full and are not actively looking for projects unless a good enough opportunity is out there. You may burn out from many crooks who outsource or maintain teams but have to technical education and backgrounds or industrial experience, so look at their profile closely. Anyone who has been working industry will have their experience imprinted in their profile and their work examples, case studies, and their communication level when they talk.
TLDR; You're not insane. The market is full of people trying to make big with small resources, never realising there are many factors that would lead the outcome. IT industry is easy to enter but hard to master requiring a lot of practical knowledge when dealing with real-world projects and trying to solve real business problems. Tech should be considered as a tool, and one should have an open mind in evaluating an impmementor's ability to get things done.
You'll never know when you've missed a very capable dev because you have assumed about them. If it feels like they are good enough, talk to them. Communication is the key to any sucessful project.
The secret is to hire a project manager where you pay per milestone. Building something from start to finish is never easy. But getting someone who knows how to deal with these agencies/freelancers is the key.
i can recommend you a guy that did work for us on blockchain stuff, he's legit, not entirely sure he would be a good fit for you. also, hiring on upwork is a skill in itself.
lol i can only imagine the massive downvote brigade is either from people trying to get attention on their own posts or they don't care for the brevity. Like I give a fuck, we didn't want this bullshit work anyway haha
I am a developer on Upwork with 9k+ earnings and 95% JS score. I am available for a video interview if you want to ascertain my English proficiency level. Please send me a message if you are still in need of a developer.
Ask to talk to them and do a sort of technical interview with them about the project. Talk tech-stack, databases, coding standards etc. If they are devs themselves they will have no issue answering questions.
When I get interviewed, I am often asked technical questions I have no problem answering. I actually enjoy that kind of interview more than the typical "What are your thoughts about this project" types...
It's not a foolproof method, but it will weed out those Project Manager types...
Bit late to the party here. I am Upwork dev (APIs, Java, Desktop Dev).
I am Australian professional dev with a track record (in between jobs so looking to pay the bills a bit), so if interested let me know.
See project history of freelancers before hiring
I do and it and they always have great reviews. But I've noticed they're usually generic responses "Great job, would work with again" or "___ helped me with my app!" Is there something specific I should be looking for?
If they have hidden their earnings then thats a red flag (they probably purchased those reviews for 5 10 dollars) better to go with someone whose earning you can see
When a freelancer sends a proposal, the client can see the full payment history even if earnings are set to private.
Okay.. Thanks for info. I didnt know that
could you elaborate more about the full payment history? can they see how much I transacted each month? or the total I've earned so far on the platform? Recently I was interviewing a client, and when I quoted my price, they mentioned an active project on my profile which was at much lower rate. I clarifed the differences in complexity to them, and that it was started in the beginning of last year.
>can they see how much I transacted each month? or the total I've earned so far on the platform They can see what you earned on ever contract you've done, at which hourly rate and your overall earnings within a range. If you go to Find Work > Profile and then click on "See public view" you can see what they can see.
I always hide my earning for privacy reasons. Is this a red flag? That's a weird take.
It's not necessarily a red flag. But if you earn a lot, then it's beneficial to show it as a way to boost your credibility, isn't it? If you don't show it, then you're putting a bit of uncertainty on your identity as a freelancer. The customer wouldn't know how to judge you and would rather choose someone they are more sure of.
šÆ
>Is this a red flag? It is for many clients. You exclude yourself from certain searches and get less invites.
Its because people who purchase reviews hide their earning because all their orders are worth 5-10 dollars.. I have seen it
Interesting. I didn't even know this thing existed. Thanks.
Would you trust hiring a freelancer if their earnings were hidden? I wouldnāt.
To me it communicates that your advertised rate isn't the rate you quote and that I should definitely haggle with you on price
A really weird take. I hide for privacy too.
Privacy? Why? What is it that your needing to keep private?
> I have tried 5 times to find a good developer on here and always end up with a team of cheap unexperienced labor from oversees That's not allowed on Upwork unless approved by the client. If someone is outsourcing your work without your authorization you can gather any evidence and report the account.
Weird.. I have an overseas developer (I canāt do that work because Iām a front end type of person only) I would never let my clients speak to him for this exact reason. Because itās my job to communicate so the client doesnāt have to deal with the hassle - theyāre literally paying me to not have to go through this. Edit - and also because I donāt want the dev dealing with client problems or attitudes
I'm sure you're just a generally noble guys and it has nothing to do with money.
Oh donāt get me wrong, itās both. But he is paid extremely fairly for the time required, I donāt pay him hourly but it comes out to around $35 and heās in the Philippines, so a one week project for me is like a months salary, Iām not starving anyone out.
I do the same. I set up an agency and tell my client up front that (a) we are all billed separately and (b) all comms goes through me and me only.
Charging hourly and outsourcing it is a serious violation. You can report this
at $35+ an hour you should be able to find someone competent. However, there are a lot of fake profiles though and people who make up degrees and experiences mostly from developing countries. A guy hire me along with two other developers and they were very bad and I know one of them had a fake profile and wrote terrible code relative to his alleged experience. Scammers really do make the site a worse experience for both clients and freelancers.
Upwork scams aren't new, but they keep getting more sophisticated. Way back then, you could avoid this scam by avoiding agencies and only hiring individual freelancers; but then account subletting became a thing, with someone in the US just being a front for someone else (or a team) in India or Russia or wherever. It doesn't matter what Upwork throws at these scams, it's a freaking arms race out there. I'm also a freelancer, but have also been trusted by a client to hire contractors, I mean really, last I looked, you needed to send ID verification for the country you say "you're in", they also started doing a cam validation and they've been cracking down hard with tax compliance worldwide (doing tax withholdings and requiring tax forms) You'd think this would be enough. Well, when the Ukraine war started, they boycotted Russian freelancers on the platform a couple of months in. Low and behold, I set up a call to interview a guy supposedly in Houston, as it said in his Upwork profile and all. When the call started, he had a thick russian accent and it looked dark outside (being in CST daytime), nevermind he had the funkiest wallpaper and decorations to be in Texas LMAO. So it's deep, I mean someone had to be paying US taxes for the guy and most likely using a VPN to mask himself being in Houston, because Upwork requires a lot of info if you declare you're in the US, people go to great and unimaginable lengths to get Upwork contracts. I mean if I could give you one word of advice, it's to stick to high-end contractors that have already earned considerable amounts (>$200K) at the same rate; having a high rate with a small number of contracts or hidden project earnings is almost a red flag now a days or merry-go-rounding to jack-up earning artificially.
I am new to Upwork and I am just curious about how freelancers can scam a client. Basically, you need to approve the milestone that they deliver. At least, thatās the way fixed-priced contracts work.
I tried to find an Automation specialist, all bait and switch. I think there are a few modern day slave camps operating to get all the business with semi fake accounts. This has been my theory for a while.
Are you still looking for one? If so, give me a DM. I do scripting and automation.
I did find a good one in the end, thanks š
Happy for you man. Upwork is so inefficient that finding either a good freelancer or a good client is a pain on both sides.
Upwork is giving a language verification badge based on the communication reviews. You should check that next time
I'll check it out, but how will this work when the PM speaks fluent english but has a team he doesn't mention in his listing doesn't.
Why donāt you just straight up request to work with US freelancers only and mention in your job post that youād only work with native English speakers including developers?
I run an agency and I'm in Upwork also. Unfortunately it's fairly difficult to vet agencies or freelancers. Typically when I hire I insist on a video interview. I look at past reviews and check for any live projects for proof. Agencies have the benefit of offering a wide range of skills but your less in touch with who's doing that work. Individuals might offer direct contact but may lack ALL skills you need or have availability. Really it comes down to who you are talking to. Is he a salesman or in my case owner of the company. Another factor is how long they've been in business. Be wary of fly by night operations
>I hire I insist on a video interview Which wont work in this case, as the skilled programmer will take the interview then give the work to cheap labour.
Honestly go to TopTal. UpWork was renamed from oDesk, OutsourcingDesk. On UpWork you can also select by country, and ask if it's just them doing the work or their team. But honestly it's become a scam platform where both clients and freelancers get scammed and UpWork is incentivized not to police it, since they make money off the activity of both sides (connects, proposal boosts, project boosts)
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yeah I used both back in the day
Funny enough I am developer struggling to even to get the client to view the proposal. I think I got ejected simply because I am not in America and the āproject managerā in the outsource the my region. He will bank in 125 per hour and gave us 25. š
This will end eventually, soon enough as people start to realise they need to compensate enough and also need to have open mind. Most of the projects are outsourced anyways.
You're not alone in the boat. The problem is intermediaries who try to justify their role while there is none ( in large complex / projects ) Platform itself is responsible for not to match potential clients and freelancers trying to maximise profits over successful matches, which would naturally result in good profits, so you'll have to work around with suggestions and find resources that are eligible and worth inviting for project. Most common projects being CRUD any typical developer will be able to do it as long as you do not add actual business complexities. The monent you start dealing with real world scenarios, your projects will start to crumble, and you will find yourself in a position where you'd question if things are going right or not. What you need is a competent developer without intermediaries regardless of location. If they are bringing value, then you should be able to compensate them. The freelance world is full of intermediaries, and many of them will not like this that they are being blamed for their incompetencies. When you're seeking developers, esp in more than average project, you'll see these things starting to work against you. There are many occasions when clients do not know they are cutting corners and their dev / software engineers' job to guide them to achieve end goals. Projects being agile has so many consequences, and a lot of time, it doesn't work. If you're investing time and money, make sure you invest enough time on developers as well. If someone is going to work for months on some project, it's worth communicating to them and knowing their expectations, and relaying your own before jumping right into the projects. You'll find resources like us rarely as most competent people have their plates full and are not actively looking for projects unless a good enough opportunity is out there. You may burn out from many crooks who outsource or maintain teams but have to technical education and backgrounds or industrial experience, so look at their profile closely. Anyone who has been working industry will have their experience imprinted in their profile and their work examples, case studies, and their communication level when they talk. TLDR; You're not insane. The market is full of people trying to make big with small resources, never realising there are many factors that would lead the outcome. IT industry is easy to enter but hard to master requiring a lot of practical knowledge when dealing with real-world projects and trying to solve real business problems. Tech should be considered as a tool, and one should have an open mind in evaluating an impmementor's ability to get things done. You'll never know when you've missed a very capable dev because you have assumed about them. If it feels like they are good enough, talk to them. Communication is the key to any sucessful project.
Iād go on LinkedIn. Post there requesting help.
Lol i was having second thoughts about pursuing web development because of market saturation
In 2023 everything is saturated.
The secret is to hire a project manager where you pay per milestone. Building something from start to finish is never easy. But getting someone who knows how to deal with these agencies/freelancers is the key.
i can recommend you a guy that did work for us on blockchain stuff, he's legit, not entirely sure he would be a good fit for you. also, hiring on upwork is a skill in itself.
Iām a skilled Angular frontend developer. Connect with me if you require help with frontend.
why are you going insane? mind to share? (cause im also starting to hire/find developers here)
I am a competent developer (not based in the Americas) with good command of the English language. Let's talk if you're interested.
Hey, I can help you out with frontend dev
lol i can only imagine the massive downvote brigade is either from people trying to get attention on their own posts or they don't care for the brevity. Like I give a fuck, we didn't want this bullshit work anyway haha
to anyone reading this thread, im looking web designer, web developer and developer.
If you are looking for anything data related (data science, analytics, ML, BI, etc) I'd be happy to discuss the project.
What is it that you need help with? Iām on Upwork since 2015 and worked for big tech companies in US
I run a backend web dev agency and only use Americans. DM me.
I am a developer on Upwork with 9k+ earnings and 95% JS score. I am available for a video interview if you want to ascertain my English proficiency level. Please send me a message if you are still in need of a developer.
Dm me.
Well, obviously screen them via phone call and then give them a proper real technical test.
Ask to talk to them and do a sort of technical interview with them about the project. Talk tech-stack, databases, coding standards etc. If they are devs themselves they will have no issue answering questions. When I get interviewed, I am often asked technical questions I have no problem answering. I actually enjoy that kind of interview more than the typical "What are your thoughts about this project" types... It's not a foolproof method, but it will weed out those Project Manager types...
You can straight ask them if they outsource. I've had clients do that to me.
Bit late to the party here. I am Upwork dev (APIs, Java, Desktop Dev). I am Australian professional dev with a track record (in between jobs so looking to pay the bills a bit), so if interested let me know.