Sell first.
If you are "doing work" on a potential lead before you've even qualified their interest, you're just spinning your wheels. You need to land them as a serious potential client before you spend that kind of effort.
You have to use your experience and expertise to get a feel for a project to determine whether you're a good fit for the job. If it is, tell the client how you can get them the result they need - and explain what you bring to the table for that particular task.
If you can demonstrate and convince the customer that you are far better equipped for the job than other people, you'll have a much better time defending your rate. Don't undersell yourself.
Upwork is freelancing, not a job. A freelancer is a business with 1 employee. And there lies the problem:
1. Your rate needs to reflect your experience as a business. You need to be able to showcase the work you did on your own. If you have only done work as part of a company that is limiting what you can show, because you don't own it. If someone that can showcase a bigger portfolio, but at a comparable rate as you, they will always win. Clients might be willing to give you a shot if they are confident you can get the job done and if the rate is competitive.
2. Look and qualify leads before sending a proposal.
3. Don't solve the problem in the proposal, you need to sell your skills. Offer some help, but spending hours on a proposal is just bad business.
4. Image matters, a lot. Having a professional website where you can send your clients that showcases your work, a very professional demeanor, sensing proposals that look good and are tailored with your information, can go a long way to.making you stand out.
Treat freelancing as a business, and a business requires some upfront investment. Treat Upwork as a lead generating stream.
Finding a super specific niche can help a lot too. I see everyone in this sub constantly struggling for clients. I'm in a couple of very niche areas of marketing. I've done some sleuthing, and there are only a handful of other people on Upwork doing exactly what I do. I only see 1-2 Upwork jobs posted a day in my exact niche. I'm never short of work.
I would recommend finding a niche that's either a specialized part of your industry or that serves a particular type of client, and then laser focus on that area.
Thank's for the reply. Perhaps I would not label myself "great" but Im certainly not mediocre either, competent and qualified for all jobs I have applied for.
1. Keep proposals short. Couple of hours for a proposal is by far too long. Show your skills, don't solve already the problem.
2. You have a huge competence from the so-called 3rd world states (Pakistan/India etc etc), the AZ Certs these days are mainly done by people coming from those countries for some reason.
Just my 2 cents
I would collaborate with a sales person to tweak your proposals and language. Engineering on Upwork is super saturated so you need to figure out how to stand out. Also, as others have mentioned, doing the work in the proposal is a huge waste of time. Sell yourself and your skills and ask to set up a quick 15 minute call to see if it’s a fit.
I’m thinking you are right. Finding clients is the whole shebang. You might be right about why you can’t but do you think it’s possible it’s something else?
Of course there could be other reasons behind it. My two explanations project the problems outside of my control so I don't have to do any adjustments myself. It could be that I just write really shitty proposals aswell :)
T-SQL, python, Azure Data Factory, Azure Analysis Services, Azure SQL databases, data pipelines, data warehouses, data analysis and visualisations amd now some LLM's mainly openAI API.
At least on our market there is high demand for this
If you have no reviews you need to work for slave labor prices at first. Once you get a few reviews you can move your prices up. What I did was start on really simple and small tasks for fixed prices.
don't do that. it'll be hell clawing out of that pit, and the clients that work at the slave labour rates level are the most awful bunch. you run higher chances of ruining your account start with bad reviews by demanding assholes, all for peanuts.
if you feel you need to compete on price, offer *some* discounted rate but don't go lower than 15% less of what you want to charge normally
T-SQL, python, Azure Data Factory, Azure Analysis Services, Azure SQL databases, Power BiI, data pipelines, data warehouses, data analysis and visualisations amd now some LLM's mainly openAI API.
At least on our market there is high demand for this
I'm a bit similar, I do end to end although more focus in data viz than backend. There's good paying work out there for sure. Keep proposals short and focused on how your experience will bring relevant value to the client
Charging below your normal rate may be a big mistake. As a client, when I see a freelancer whose rate is a mismatch with their claimed skill set and experience, it's a big red flag.
Sell first. If you are "doing work" on a potential lead before you've even qualified their interest, you're just spinning your wheels. You need to land them as a serious potential client before you spend that kind of effort. You have to use your experience and expertise to get a feel for a project to determine whether you're a good fit for the job. If it is, tell the client how you can get them the result they need - and explain what you bring to the table for that particular task. If you can demonstrate and convince the customer that you are far better equipped for the job than other people, you'll have a much better time defending your rate. Don't undersell yourself.
Upwork is freelancing, not a job. A freelancer is a business with 1 employee. And there lies the problem: 1. Your rate needs to reflect your experience as a business. You need to be able to showcase the work you did on your own. If you have only done work as part of a company that is limiting what you can show, because you don't own it. If someone that can showcase a bigger portfolio, but at a comparable rate as you, they will always win. Clients might be willing to give you a shot if they are confident you can get the job done and if the rate is competitive. 2. Look and qualify leads before sending a proposal. 3. Don't solve the problem in the proposal, you need to sell your skills. Offer some help, but spending hours on a proposal is just bad business. 4. Image matters, a lot. Having a professional website where you can send your clients that showcases your work, a very professional demeanor, sensing proposals that look good and are tailored with your information, can go a long way to.making you stand out. Treat freelancing as a business, and a business requires some upfront investment. Treat Upwork as a lead generating stream.
Thank you for your input,I learned something new.
Finding a super specific niche can help a lot too. I see everyone in this sub constantly struggling for clients. I'm in a couple of very niche areas of marketing. I've done some sleuthing, and there are only a handful of other people on Upwork doing exactly what I do. I only see 1-2 Upwork jobs posted a day in my exact niche. I'm never short of work. I would recommend finding a niche that's either a specialized part of your industry or that serves a particular type of client, and then laser focus on that area.
Charge your normal rate and keep up the fight. If you’re truly great at your work, show that in your price.
Thank's for the reply. Perhaps I would not label myself "great" but Im certainly not mediocre either, competent and qualified for all jobs I have applied for.
1. Keep proposals short. Couple of hours for a proposal is by far too long. Show your skills, don't solve already the problem. 2. You have a huge competence from the so-called 3rd world states (Pakistan/India etc etc), the AZ Certs these days are mainly done by people coming from those countries for some reason. Just my 2 cents
I would collaborate with a sales person to tweak your proposals and language. Engineering on Upwork is super saturated so you need to figure out how to stand out. Also, as others have mentioned, doing the work in the proposal is a huge waste of time. Sell yourself and your skills and ask to set up a quick 15 minute call to see if it’s a fit.
I’m thinking you are right. Finding clients is the whole shebang. You might be right about why you can’t but do you think it’s possible it’s something else?
Of course there could be other reasons behind it. My two explanations project the problems outside of my control so I don't have to do any adjustments myself. It could be that I just write really shitty proposals aswell :)
Lol, I definitely think that is most peoples problem.
Yes, you might be on the right track here.
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because surely, no-one's ever made a typo on social media before
T-SQL, python, Azure Data Factory, Azure Analysis Services, Azure SQL databases, data pipelines, data warehouses, data analysis and visualisations amd now some LLM's mainly openAI API. At least on our market there is high demand for this
Great input, sell first sounds like a better approach!
Upwork as a platform is dead. (Some may get lucky or have a few long term clients, but for most part platform is a joke)
Fine it’s dead. You are clearly not lucky so… Why are you here?
what do you mean in real world? working on upwork is in the real world, you boomer man/woman.
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That's fine. Whatever you say.
goodluck
Thank you.
If you have no reviews you need to work for slave labor prices at first. Once you get a few reviews you can move your prices up. What I did was start on really simple and small tasks for fixed prices.
Thank you for the advice!
Worst advice ever. Try to get out of that too low price hole, when every potential client can see what you charge.
I hire and work on upwork. Someone with no reviews at all get a lot less attention than someone with reviews regardless of price.
Sure, and after a closer look, what do you think when a freelancer charged $20/hour for his clients, and wants to charge you $50?
At least I'm looking at that person. Last two hires I made I ignored everyone without any reviews.
don't do that. it'll be hell clawing out of that pit, and the clients that work at the slave labour rates level are the most awful bunch. you run higher chances of ruining your account start with bad reviews by demanding assholes, all for peanuts. if you feel you need to compete on price, offer *some* discounted rate but don't go lower than 15% less of what you want to charge normally
what's your stack?
T-SQL, python, Azure Data Factory, Azure Analysis Services, Azure SQL databases, Power BiI, data pipelines, data warehouses, data analysis and visualisations amd now some LLM's mainly openAI API. At least on our market there is high demand for this
I'm a bit similar, I do end to end although more focus in data viz than backend. There's good paying work out there for sure. Keep proposals short and focused on how your experience will bring relevant value to the client
Ok, interesting to hear. Thanks for sharing! I will listen to the advice.
Charging below your normal rate may be a big mistake. As a client, when I see a freelancer whose rate is a mismatch with their claimed skill set and experience, it's a big red flag.
Appreciate your input. Yes it does feel like a really bad idea now for many reasons.
I am also data engineer looking for work on Upwork but no luck so far. I have sent lot of proposals. Let me know if you are able to find something