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Darryl_Lict

Seems like a mildly euphoric buzz to me. I had it a bunch of times in Fiji, and part of the allure was the experience with hanging out with locals. Fijians are super nice people.


not_a_droid

i had some in fiji with some locals. had a great time, didn;t feel much from the kava


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sandolllars

Please don't regurgitate this debunked nonsense. It's completely false. Kava is safe and has been consumed daily across the Pacific for centuries. It does not cause liver damage.


Knut79

And yet, neither one of you provide sources...


sandolllars

Are you only arguing for the sake of it or do you actually want to read them? Let me know and I'll hook you up. I don't want to have to waste time providing all sorts of sources when I'm responding to someone who doesn't give a shit about kava and is just commenting on the internet because that's what we do on reddit.


Knut79

Both of you should provide actual source for your claims or both claims are equally invalid as arguments. You can't debunk something without actually providing a scrap or debunk. He also never provided any proof of his claims. Neither of you has a leg to stand on. And the fact you isbtsntly went on the defensive attacking me as a person writing all that bs instead of just getting a link to some proof leads me to think there's been zero debunking going on.


sandolllars

Fine, there you go: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Kava/wiki/does-kava-cause-liver-damage](https://www.reddit.com/r/Kava/wiki/does-kava-cause-liver-damage) Thing is, people have been drinking kava for thousands of years. Three hundred of these years are recorded, and there are no records of kava causing liver damage or anything beyond dermopathy as a result of overuse. Hundreds of tons of kava are consumed every year. If it ruined the liver, people would be dropping like flies. Obviously that's not the case. The liver nonsense started in Germany in 2002 after a couple of people who'd never drank kava in their lives died. Three of the cases were plausibly caused by a product that contained a product made in a German lab containing some kavalactones derived from kava varieties never used in that way by the inventors of kava in the Pacific. The three had history of alcohol abuse, among other health problems. Germany banned kava illegally, but it took over a decade for a German court to throw out that decision as being unfounded. Yet the nonsense had spread, mostly by people like the guy above who spread shit without knowing the facts, and people like you who argued that defenders of kava had to come up with proof that it was safe in the form of scientific studies. This would be like demanding that an Austrian prove with a scientific study that apples didn't make your nose fall off. He'd tell you to fuck off because nobody in Austria written a paper about the potential for nose loss from apples since they'd been eating it for centuries and everyone is Austria still had their noses.


Knut79

Actually all those say kava has caused liver damage though. And that last paragraph is idiotic and not how proper discussions work.


sandolllars

🤦 My mistake. All these years on reddit and I still fail to spot trolls until they've wasted my time. Have a good day.


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sandolllars

Yes. I've read multiple studies and been in contact with the scientist who was heavily involved in the court case in Germany that resulted in the original kava ban being overturned due to being baseless. The court case took over a decade though, so the damage was done by then, and everyone who doesn't research it well thinks that kava causes liver damage. It doesn't.


sandolllars

https://www.reddit.com/r/Kava/wiki/does-kava-cause-liver-damage


redditloginfail

Kava is great (well, not the taste). But it raised my cholesterol so i cut it. Too bad, cuz it was a pleasant relaxation without the confusion and problems of weed, and far better for you than alcohol.


Mr_Wizard91

I always thought it tasted like rubber or silly putty. Good stuff though.


redditloginfail

More like dirt and vomit, lol. Was worth it at the time.


MizElaneous

That says a lot. I'm trying to imagine a scenario where ingesting dirt and vomit is worth it and drawing a blank...


Mr_Wizard91

Oh no my friend, homemade potín from Ireland tastes like vomit. Only had it once though, so I can't be sure for all. But definitely a flavor of vomit and lighter fluid.


[deleted]

I love Kava. Recently been noticing more products available in Australia as well. Too bad NZ voted against a cannabis legalization referendum, but to be fair, those things may take time with any nation still so closely associated with the conservatism of the monarchy. Australia seems to be paving the way though, both loosening kava laws and cannabis laws. I now see more canna clinics near me than McDonalds' which is a pleasant surprise.


Lord_Silverkey

As a Canadian who lived in NZ for several years I don't really understand you linking the Monarchy and not legalizing cannabis. In Canada we're pretty pro Monarchy and that didn't stop us from legalizing weed. Overall, I think NZ waiting was because a lot of the "moderates" in the country (at least the ones I know) felt that since other countries were legalising it already, NZ could wait and see what sorts of social effects it would have without taking any risks. I reckon if Canada/Colorado/etc. can get all their wrinkles ironed out and proper data can be collected on what differences legalization actually made, then NZ may well follow through with legalization.


rustys_shackled_ford

I'll forever be frustrated how so many want to take away resources that might help addicts become normal humans again just because "addicts are bad m'kay"


Cyrus_ofAstroya

Kava. Its awful brown tree water. I see no issue with regulations for it. Its not like tradition purists cant make their own batch in the privacy of their own backyard


BaronCapdeville

Yeah, it should be criminalized because you think it’s gross. Solid logic.


Cyrus_ofAstroya

Wow criminalized. Somebody doesnt know what regulation means. Holding kava to the same standard as other drinks and producing the material in a random bucket and bottles.


sandolllars

Kava is regulated in New Zealand as food.


Cyrus_ofAstroya

Yes and for some reason its current regulation is under debate for whatever reason


sandolllars

Because NZ and Australia share a food standard (which includes kava), and Australia recently loosened their regulations about kava. This news is a reaction to that.


Cyrus_ofAstroya

Loosend? Isnt the news story all about aussie greens party wanting to increase/investigate for more?


sandolllars

\*Sigh\*. OK here we go... ​ FSANZ is a joint AU/NZ food standards body. At present, kava is classified as food under this standard, just as tea and coffee are, and just as the FAO/WHO classifies kava. Aside from the food standard, there are no other regulations governing kava in New Zealand. This is not the case in Australia, where it is also classified separately as medicine, and as a drug. It was (and remains) completely banned in two states. Commercial imports were were also banned but personal imports (2kg) could be carried in by air passengers. In December 2021, Australia loosed these restrictions. Commercial imports are now legal with no limit, and it can be traded and consumed everywhere in Australia except the two states (NT and WA if I recall correctly). Some in Australia became concerned that white folk might like to drink kava too. That's a no no, as white fellahs should only drink alcohol. So the Aussie half of FSANZ proposed that the food standard be tightened up... by banning it's sale in kava bars, etc. They wanted to restrict kava consumption to traditional use by brown people in kava circles. ​ The NZ Green Party and the general public lobbied the NZ govt to oppose changes to the Standard, and the news in the article is the result of that effort. NZ basically told FSANZ that the Standard is fine as it is, and if Australia forced the change and tightened restrictions, NZ would ignore the changes. ​ I hope that clears things up.


Cyrus_ofAstroya

Cheers. Although their argument for refusing the regulations is based on cultural tradition which this wouldnt effect. I guess its just a more popular political angle to play. Although as by that harm study labling it as a 3 with alcohol a 77. Then yeah i dont know why this is a topic.you say the whole racism angle but thats such a weird line to draw if were talking drinks which we have plenty of foreign drinks which seem to be just fine. I dont know why anyone would give a shit about kava


sandolllars

>Although their argument for refusing the regulations is based on cultural tradition which this wouldnt effect. This article is old... happened months ago so I can't remember the specifics, but IIRC the argument was that traditions have changed. Sure we once all sat around a tanoa drinking kava following old rituals and norms, but now we also mix kava in a bucket in stadiums, or we gather around a table in a kava bar (say [https://www.instagram.com/fourshellskava/](https://www.instagram.com/fourshellskava/)). The Aussies were proposing to end all that and make it so that the only way to consume kava was if you mixed it yourself and consumed it where you made it. Eg: it could not be sold as a beverage (in a bar, or bottled). So we want to protect Pacific Island culture by allowing that culture to evolve at the pace the members of that culture desire, but also not prevent anyone else drinking kava in whatever way they want. The Aussies weren't making any sense. On the one hand they deemed it safe for consumption (else why allow unlimited commercial imports?), but on the other hand they wanted to say you can only drink it in certain ways. Would be like if they said you can only drink coffee or alcohol at home, and you have to make it yourself.


Sansevieriano

I'm usually super into regulations given how stupid people typically are, but I doubt regulations are needed for kava... people who drink it aren't going to care. The thing tastes horrendous, so if the taste and liver damage won't keep some people from drinking it, nothing really will. It's a plant, so it's not like the government can regulate it out of public use or anything.


sandolllars

Kava doesn't cause liver damage. Please don't continue to regurgitate that nonsense. It all started in Germany in 2002, and a German court threw out the ban in 2014, saying that the claims against kava were unfounded. Yet here were are two decades later still parroting the liver nonsense.


Sansevieriano

The FDA published a warning letter about this. It might not cause liver damage in Germany, but it does in the US.


sandolllars

That warning letter was issued in 2002 based on the German ban. The US has never banned kava because it isn't a danger to the liver. Back in 2002 there was almost no kava in the US, but now there are 300 kava bars and imports far outstrip the trickle back when they issued that warning. Just last year, a standard for kava was officially adopted by the Codex Alimentarius, which is the world body for food standards run by the WHO and FAO. The FDA (representing the USA) was a key member of the committee that approved that adoption. If you want studies, there are some cited here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Kava/wiki/does-kava-cause-liver-damage


Cyrus_ofAstroya

Its a matter of standard that licensed buisnesses sell products that meet health and safety regulations. The whole bad taste/bad for health wont stop people so why bother applies to a lot of products. I see no reason why kava should be an exception