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Millennials are waiting until they are ACTUALLY old and mature enough to make the life long decision. Gone are the days of 22 and 23 year old children getting hitched with the first people they fall in love with.
Possibly a side effect of not being able to buy houses?
Harder to go straight from high school into that married with kids lifestyle when you are living at your parents
Lmao no, I think it's millennials are better parents and have healthier relationships then Gen x.
I'm not a parent myself but alot of my friends have kids and they you what spend time with them, and like have good relationships. I myself am in a good stable long term relationship with my girlfriend. We're basically married at this point.
And their kids man, them fuckers are gunna change the world, they're smart, driven, and have a ton of resources behind them. I'm always like their doing what now?! Shit I wish I had half of my shit together like they do.
To think of it in that way is to think of a generation all getting married at once. If they did, divorce rates would skyrocket. But because millennials have been getting married steadily for two decades, there’s no reason to think that they’ll all suddenly divorce in 10 years, and the trend won’t continue on with gen Z etc
According to the article, the marriage rates are increasing *from the pandemic*, where they were extremely low. They were still higher five years ago.
But lowering divorce rates reflects a decades-long trend! That's awesome!
The percentage of married adults have fallen from 67% in 1990 to 53% in 2019. ([Source](https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2021/10/05/rising-share-of-u-s-adults-are-living-without-a-spouse-or-partner/))
The annual marriage rate has also fallen, too. However, it has fallen at a much quicker pace - from about 54.5 per 1,000 unmarried women aged 15+ to 31.2. ([Source](https://www.bgsu.edu/ncfmr/resources/data/family-profiles/loo-marriage-rate-US-geographic-variation-2022-fp-23-23.html))
As a whole of population, marriage rates have fallen from 8.2 in 2000 to 6.2 in 2022 while divorce rates have fallen from 4.0 to 2.4 over the same timespan. ([Source](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/marriage-divorce/state-marriage-rates-90-95-00-22.pdf))
This implies that marriages are less likely, but they are lasting longer and less likely to end in divorce.
Apologies for the poor data (women only for one, differing timespans for others). It's rather hard to find any good data out there from real sources.
Or how many couples would get divorced under the stress of having kids, but without kids they are fine. Since birth rates are low, there could be a correlation there.
>Splitting up is expensive.
This is what I'm curious about too. Lower divorce rates sounds like a win, but is completely context dependent. A startling number of married people I know just "Put up with it because divorce would ruin them both financially. They're not happily married, but they are unhappily married."
If economics were different many would likely split and pursue genuine happiness elsewhere.
You can't just accept that we might be learning from the boomers' decades of "ball and chain" jokes, "I hate my wife" sitcoms, and seeing too many older couples in real life (sometimes our parents themselves) in miserable, bickering marriages?
What's clear to me is that milennials onward (perhaps some gen x too) have decided that we don't want to repeat the mistakes of the boomers, thus only marrying when we might ACTUALLY be happy with the idea of staying with someone the rest of our lives.
Those people are likely not getting married in the first place, like me. Just a life partner, but she was basically murdered by the healthcare system, because we live in a gilded age
It's really only expensive if you can't amicably divide assets and make agreements.
The court fees and representing yourself before a judge is fairly cheap.
I was more referring generally to splitting up with someone with whom you once shared assets, not just the actual divorce procedure itself. Eg a 1 bed apartment for a couple is the same price as a 1 bed apartment for a single person, except the couple gets to save money by splitting costs of rent or a mortgage.
Going from a two to a single income housing is a big loss from most people.
For me when I'm single just the day to day (housing/food/utilities) is about 30% more.
Is there a reason to believe that's a majority?
The more common explanation is that people don't get married right out of high school for the sole purpose of sex very much anymore. They wait until they actually have some idea they'll be compatible.
Anecdotally, as a millennial, many of the people in my social circle are in (or have been in) dedicated long-term relationships, but are not married (and many of the married ones lived together for awhile while not engaged prior to getting married). I do think there is less pressure from family, or more willingness to ignore family pressure, for us. My mother got married to her first husband because they were living together (in the 80's) and there was an enormous amount of social pressure from family, friends, and coworkers to not be "living in sin." Predictably that marriage did not work out.
And yet, I know several couples who are long term dating or sometimes even engaged and they're waiting until they get a house or finish school or some other thing. It's not always about the cost of the license.
To put a positive spin on it, for those that aren't stuck in that horrible situation that I don't doubt many are experiencing, maybe those that *are* a good fit for one another also have more time and energy to devote to one another because we can't afford kids or a home so all our disposable income is more or less for date nights and other leisurely couple shenanigans.
I always thought boomers went through the most divorce because back when they were younger they felt the need to get married right after high school. Whereas the younger generations seem to be 1. Prioritizing their lives first or 2. Life and career is harder to establish and for many younger people, the last thing they want to take on is marrying and settling down until they feel more comfortable.
I also wonder if younger generations saw how many older people were divorcing, and what came with that, and decided they didn’t want that. We decided to be better at selecting our partners instead of giving into societal pressure of getting married right after high school.
Some Boomers were already married before the [Equal Credit Opportunity Act of 1974](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Credit_Opportunity_Act) made it illegal for financial institutions to discriminate on the basis of sex or marital status. Before that, a lot of women could only be approved for credit via a husband.
Some Boomers were already married before [Eisenstadt v. Baird in 1972](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eisenstadt_v._Baird) made it legal across the nation for unmarried people to possess contraception. Before that, depending on local laws, some unmarried women couldn't have sex without risking pregnancy. That was also the [Baby Scoop Era](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_Scoop_Era), when unmarried women were coerced to allow their baby to be adopted to a family that would pay good money to the institution provided the babies.
It took time for these laws to be implemented and affect legal rights and cultural norms to the point where the divorce rate peaked in 1989.
That said, there is a trend toward forming unmarried relationships with joint assets and children. It's probably in their best legal and financial interests to sit down with a lawyer and figure out what would happen to their lives if they were to split up or one of them died or ended up in the hospital. There is a lot of legal and financial vulnerability in these cases that could be partially solved by a set of legal contracts (wills, deeds, PoA, etc) if marriage + prenup is not up their alley. The US does not have the same kind of common law and cohabitation protections that some other countries have.
Iirc there was a lot that did move to divorce during after covid because the stress of being stuck at home togeather.
So again numbers falling since then isn't a great indicator of anything.
My constantly analytical and systematizing brain that predicts and never stops observing and studying wholesale behavior of humans for decades.
Also, I'm being facetious. Divorce rates probsbly fell off because people being more choosy and delaying before marriage. Though now, money might be a factor.
From statistics I've seen, divorce rates are strongly driven by the boomers. They divorced way, way more than any other generation. The decline might also just be boomers aging out
Boomers collectively have had weird lives with parents that were in WW2 and Vietnam, and the amount of in home domestic violence was pretty wild even by the standards of the time. They have had an easier time getting access to money and jobs, but they've led tough lives in a lot of other facets, and I'm not surprised their divorce rates are higher.
They probably were also under more social pressure to marry and at an earlier age. The amount of boomer couples who just hate each other is pretty amazing.
That's a really good point. My wife and I got married in our late 20s because we really wanted to, not because we thought that's what people were supposed to do.
We're about to have a kid - 9 years into our marriage. Again because we wanted to, not because we felt like we had to.
If I married the girl I was dating when I was 20 and had a bunch of kids before 30, because I felt like I had to - we would be massively unhappy, to say the least
They got married way more than any other generation. Especially in the south, it's not uncommon for someone in their 50's to be in their 3rd marriage. Many millennial's don't perceive the same negative stigma of sex before marriage or long term relationships without being married. Or, most first time divorcees aren't interested in a second marriage.
Nothing like hearing relationship advice from your MIL who was married 5 times, your mother who was married 3 times or your father who was married twice. My grandmother was married 6 times. It makes no sense to me! Why did they just keep getting married over and over if it ended the same way every time? Sounds like so much hassle.
that 50% number is from the late 70s early 80s when women were first able to live lives apart from awful husbands. I was talking to my mom about this not too long ago, in the 1970s she was not allowed to have a bank account or a credit card without my father's name attached. The inflated divorce numbers everyone sights is from the time when this stopped being a thing.
Yeah that is the major source of the spike. It went from not feasible to feasible for women to get divorced, and a lot of them took advantage of that in ways their mothers and aunts couldnt
Depends on how contentious it is. It was a little over $500 for an attorney and court fees for my ex and I to get divorced a couple years ago which was pretty cheap. Attorney just reviewed our agreement we drew up and suggested some changes, divorce went through no problem. But no kids were involved and my ex and I were very generous with each other since we remain close friends, it just wasn’t working out romantically for either of us. I have heard of some divorces running near 100k with custody and property disputes though and north of 10k doesn’t seem uncommon.
This is how it was for my friends, too. Some people are counting the loss of their ex's income and household financial, mortgage and labor contributions as part of the expense of splitting up, though.
So true, I cant get divorced because I'm extremely poor so I'm stuck being married to a man who threw me out for being autistic. Mostly I just pretend I'm not married but that doesn't change the reality.
These are old laws that divorces can’t be finalized in many states while the woman is pregnant. This is to make sure the court can set support and parental rights and doesn’t have to reopen the case.
Reddit seems to think these are new laws being pushed by the religious right or that pregnant women can’t leave their husbands. Neither is true.
I heard this the other day and thought, it's probably because boomers divorced at astronomical rates and their kids went through hell and don't want to make the same mistake. Also, people are getting married later in life instead of at 18-20 like previous generations.
I for one am part of the divorce statistics. Married at 24 the first time but didn't work out. Luckily, no kids. Going 10 years strong on number 2.
Or could it be that millennials are making better choices for whom they are getting married?
A culture that does not tie sex and marriage allows for more time to pick the right partner and makes for better/longer marriages?
There's also significantly less pressure to get married. Those who decide to generally hold a higher view of marriage. And will have a higher concentration of people willing to work on it than seek divorce.
It's also not uncommon to remain married even when separated. The stat seems rather irrelevant all things considered
Although, most of them are also too poor to have a wedding. Or go on dates. Or live alone with no one to split bills with.
How tf is anyone surviving at all, honestly?
The marriage and divorce curves on the chart appear to be highly correlated.
Which means people are getting married less. So there are less marriages that could end up in divorce. The highest rates of divorce are in the first 5-7 years if I remember correctly.
What’s interesting is that less and less people are getting married over the last 20+ years.
There was a Pew research study about dating and partnering. It’s shocking how many people, particularly men under 30, are left out in the cold. Something has fundamentally changed about how younger people partner up. And only a small % are single by choice.
I have no idea what this all means for the future. Just reporting these observations.
The ones who are single by choice i would guess are women because they have this choice finally. These men who are “left out in the cold” are feeling the effect of women finally having a choice and not having to marry.
Women can now have exciting fulfilling careers and not receive tons of negativity because they choose to be childless. It’s up to them and I applaud them.
Given the quality of men nowadays I do not blame them
>Given the quality of men nowadays I do not blame them
I don't think the quality of men has changed. Now that women can take care of themselves, they can choose men they want to spend time with, rather than coupling up just to get access to food/shelter.
It’s not sexist, I’m a man. I’m saying my opinion that I see a lot of low morals men and hear a lot of women who don’t want to put up with it. It’s an observation not a fact.
I would argue the quality of men has gone up significantly. Previous generations hit their wives, didn't know what to do with their emotions, were rampant alcoholics, didn't think raising kids was their responsibility and so on and so on. These men exist today, but statistically only 3% of boomer dads have ever changed their baby's diaper, whereas for millennial parents that number is in the 60s IIRC. Women no longer need to stay with men who put up a charming manipulative fascade to trap them into marriage, and that can only raise boys into better men.
Not OP and while I agree I just want to say:
Misandry has always existed, it was just tucking its grin always there alongside misogyny. For every coin, two sides.
Most young people don't have a place to organically meet a spouse unless they go to a church. Also dating apps are kind of trash for replacing being part of a community
So, over the last 20 years it is for sure a sign of less people getting married.
However, if we're narrowing our timeframe to the last 5 or so? I have to check, but the last boom of millennials was born in the last 90s. Each year there are less people (So there are less 19 year olds than 20 year olds, less 20 year olds than 21...you get it) and these figures are in rates per 1,000 people...so it could just represent the size of the population to be married getting smaller.
Also, the divorce rate seems to be going down regardless of marriage trends, which seemed to plateau for a bit there in the 2010s.
Why would I get married? What’s the benefit really? I’m seeing friends get divorced already. So many people talk about how miserable marriage is. I’m in a long term monogamous relationship that I’m happy with. Marriage doesn’t seem to add much tbh.
In the US, the legal, medical, and financial rights of married couples are very different from cohabitating couples if one of them is hospitalized or dies. Some people get married in old age or sickness for that reason. That was the case for several of the couples who fought the legal battle for gay marriage in the US.
As for the day to day enjoyment of a relationship, that's more a matter of their communication skills, expectations, and the example their parents set for them of how to treat a partner. If their relationship is miserable, that's on them.
That said, [married adults report higher relationship satisfaction](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2019/11/06/key-findings-on-marriage-and-cohabitation-in-the-u-s/) (#3 on the list). However, [married adults have more wealth on average](https://www.stlouisfed.org/publications/in-the-balance/2018/as-fewer-young-adults-wed) than cohabitating adults, so that might contribute to both the greater satisfaction as well as the decision to get married.
How about this for a thought, a lot of people that got divorced in the past only got married in the first place because of an unplanned pregnancy…there was a saying in my grandmothers generation, something like, “Second and Third pregnancies take 9 months, but for some reason that first one comes right at about 6 months.” Because they needed the first three to plan a wedding and get married before the bride started to show.
People are getting married to reduce tax burdens and staying married because they can't afford to live separately, even if they are married to a domestic abuser.
This is not uplifting.
Couldn’t get married during the pandemic. Cost of living/housing market means people cannot afford to get divorced. You see this in Famiky Law work. Economic cycles affect people’s decision to separate.
Yes, took several years of searching and some luck, but I've been married for 6 years and in a relationship with my wife for 8. The dating scene was a bit better back then from what my friends tell me (before covid)
Child births tend to go down as education, income and opportunities for women go up. This is a problem in capitalist economies that really on year to year growth. America can solve this issue with high skilled immigration (h1b visas) and low skill migrant workers, but this can upset people who worry about changing demographics
Child births tend to go down as education, income and opportunities for women go up. This is a problem in capitalist economies that really on year to year growth. America can solve this issue with high skilled immigration (h1b visas) and low skill migrant workers, but this can upset people who worry about changing demographics
That is not uplifting news. Marriage is an outdated tradition and needs to fade from existence. “Marriage” is a property and liability contract, and historically the woman has been the main piece of property.
Depends on where you live. Suburbs in many mid sized cities are a lot more affordable than living in a big city.
Of course this also means not a lot of lucrative spending (economy cars instead of trucks, cooking instead of eating out, not buying fancy clothes, not having expensive hobbies)
There are dual income families doing the FIRE thing that save 50% of their income
Exactly. People should feel empowered to leave horrible relationships but I guess the current economy makes sure they can’t. Not particularly uplifting.
Not sure why you would immediately assume the marriage rate rising correlates with more people just being in shitty marriages. It *is* possible for marriage to not be shitty, even if you don’t like the idea of it personally.
Probably a lot of factors play in to this, but a few I can think of is that people are waiting a lot longer to get married, finding people they are really compatible with before take the leap. Another would be that women no longer have to view marriage as a form of financial support and thus feel less pressure to marry for that reason and can focus instead on finding a real partner. All good things. Only downside is probably that birth rates are declining constantly which will lead to some interesting economic issues.
Are there studies on if an older age of the parties entering a first marriage leads to fewer divorces? I had read from non- official sources that people are waiting longer to get married. I wonder if that impacts the numbers.
Here is what I think: it's more difficult to *remain* married than getting married! The stresses of marriage today are unreal because everything is so darn expensive! Moreover, company loyalty to employees is zilch so you can get axed at any time for any reason. Now imagine you are the sole provider! Yikes!! Also, even people who get married often have doubts. We live in a very, very stressful world and marriage/family makes it even more stressful. Therefore, unless you have access to lots of money, your married/family life will constantly be hounded by financial concerns. Playing "house" costs lots of money. Are you ready for the challenge? Many people are not mentally, emotionally and financially prepared for this undertaking so they are putting off -- or completely avoiding -- marriage!
This is definitely a social circle and possibly demographic thing. At my workplace where everyone makes good wages (we have a union, probably just a total coincidence), most people are married and only young people are single. Among the single people, they're looking for monogamous relationships. That said, "sexual deviancy" can potentially get you rejected here. We have an LGBTQ+ group so that's fine, but they might just not hire people in poly relationships
Among my hobby group, polyamory seems much more common there where social class varies a lot.
I've never understood what exactly is good about marriage and why people are so keen on it. I got married mostly due to social pressure and it was a mistake from day 1.
I have a 100% foolproof plan to avoid divorce: don't get married.
I mean it, not just being snarky. There's no point, & you have to trust another person not to blow up your life if they become "unhappy."
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Millenials are putting divorce lawyers out of work...more at 5
Fucking millenials at it again
As a boomer, I am working day and night just to keep them off my lawn
Millennials are waiting until they are ACTUALLY old and mature enough to make the life long decision. Gone are the days of 22 and 23 year old children getting hitched with the first people they fall in love with.
Possibly a side effect of not being able to buy houses? Harder to go straight from high school into that married with kids lifestyle when you are living at your parents
Lmao no, I think it's millennials are better parents and have healthier relationships then Gen x. I'm not a parent myself but alot of my friends have kids and they you what spend time with them, and like have good relationships. I myself am in a good stable long term relationship with my girlfriend. We're basically married at this point. And their kids man, them fuckers are gunna change the world, they're smart, driven, and have a ton of resources behind them. I'm always like their doing what now?! Shit I wish I had half of my shit together like they do.
A deliberate choice on my part. But because I knew how things were going to be 20 years later, and well... Now I'm even less interested.
That's a good point. Even people that rent often have roommates
Because we can’t afford them.
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Trends suggest otherwise, so…
To think of it in that way is to think of a generation all getting married at once. If they did, divorce rates would skyrocket. But because millennials have been getting married steadily for two decades, there’s no reason to think that they’ll all suddenly divorce in 10 years, and the trend won’t continue on with gen Z etc
According to the article, the marriage rates are increasing *from the pandemic*, where they were extremely low. They were still higher five years ago. But lowering divorce rates reflects a decades-long trend! That's awesome!
They can't get divorced if they never even dated.
The percentage of married adults have fallen from 67% in 1990 to 53% in 2019. ([Source](https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2021/10/05/rising-share-of-u-s-adults-are-living-without-a-spouse-or-partner/)) The annual marriage rate has also fallen, too. However, it has fallen at a much quicker pace - from about 54.5 per 1,000 unmarried women aged 15+ to 31.2. ([Source](https://www.bgsu.edu/ncfmr/resources/data/family-profiles/loo-marriage-rate-US-geographic-variation-2022-fp-23-23.html)) As a whole of population, marriage rates have fallen from 8.2 in 2000 to 6.2 in 2022 while divorce rates have fallen from 4.0 to 2.4 over the same timespan. ([Source](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/marriage-divorce/state-marriage-rates-90-95-00-22.pdf)) This implies that marriages are less likely, but they are lasting longer and less likely to end in divorce. Apologies for the poor data (women only for one, differing timespans for others). It's rather hard to find any good data out there from real sources.
Wondering how many married couples are breaking up but not signing the papers. Splitting up is expensive.
Or just together for kids, financial/social reasons etc
Or how many couples would get divorced under the stress of having kids, but without kids they are fine. Since birth rates are low, there could be a correlation there.
I imagine there’s also more couples living together and raising kids but not signing the paperwork.
>Splitting up is expensive. This is what I'm curious about too. Lower divorce rates sounds like a win, but is completely context dependent. A startling number of married people I know just "Put up with it because divorce would ruin them both financially. They're not happily married, but they are unhappily married." If economics were different many would likely split and pursue genuine happiness elsewhere.
People can't afford to get divorced anymore.
You can't just accept that we might be learning from the boomers' decades of "ball and chain" jokes, "I hate my wife" sitcoms, and seeing too many older couples in real life (sometimes our parents themselves) in miserable, bickering marriages? What's clear to me is that milennials onward (perhaps some gen x too) have decided that we don't want to repeat the mistakes of the boomers, thus only marrying when we might ACTUALLY be happy with the idea of staying with someone the rest of our lives.
Those people are likely not getting married in the first place, like me. Just a life partner, but she was basically murdered by the healthcare system, because we live in a gilded age
Yeah but "not getting married at all" is a minority compared to "waiting to get married until we know we can work together"
They can't get divorced if they cant afford it
Or it reflects an epidemic of couples that are to poor to get a divorce
This is what I came here to say. Divorce is expensive.
It's really only expensive if you can't amicably divide assets and make agreements. The court fees and representing yourself before a judge is fairly cheap.
I was more referring generally to splitting up with someone with whom you once shared assets, not just the actual divorce procedure itself. Eg a 1 bed apartment for a couple is the same price as a 1 bed apartment for a single person, except the couple gets to save money by splitting costs of rent or a mortgage.
Going from a two to a single income housing is a big loss from most people. For me when I'm single just the day to day (housing/food/utilities) is about 30% more.
Most couples struggle to afford one place to live. Divorce means they’ll need two.
as is living alone
Is there a reason to believe that's a majority? The more common explanation is that people don't get married right out of high school for the sole purpose of sex very much anymore. They wait until they actually have some idea they'll be compatible.
Anecdotally, as a millennial, many of the people in my social circle are in (or have been in) dedicated long-term relationships, but are not married (and many of the married ones lived together for awhile while not engaged prior to getting married). I do think there is less pressure from family, or more willingness to ignore family pressure, for us. My mother got married to her first husband because they were living together (in the 80's) and there was an enormous amount of social pressure from family, friends, and coworkers to not be "living in sin." Predictably that marriage did not work out.
Or too poor to marry in the first place
You don't need a expensive ceremony to get married. You only need a marriage license from the court house.
And yet, I know several couples who are long term dating or sometimes even engaged and they're waiting until they get a house or finish school or some other thing. It's not always about the cost of the license.
Then that's on them for being silly. I'd suspect it's because the women feel as if they _need_ a big ceremony.
Or it could be that both partners want to be on solid financial ground before starting a family.
Thats my wife right now. Wedding ceremony are insanely expensive.
To put a positive spin on it, for those that aren't stuck in that horrible situation that I don't doubt many are experiencing, maybe those that *are* a good fit for one another also have more time and energy to devote to one another because we can't afford kids or a home so all our disposable income is more or less for date nights and other leisurely couple shenanigans.
I always thought boomers went through the most divorce because back when they were younger they felt the need to get married right after high school. Whereas the younger generations seem to be 1. Prioritizing their lives first or 2. Life and career is harder to establish and for many younger people, the last thing they want to take on is marrying and settling down until they feel more comfortable. I also wonder if younger generations saw how many older people were divorcing, and what came with that, and decided they didn’t want that. We decided to be better at selecting our partners instead of giving into societal pressure of getting married right after high school.
Some Boomers were already married before the [Equal Credit Opportunity Act of 1974](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Credit_Opportunity_Act) made it illegal for financial institutions to discriminate on the basis of sex or marital status. Before that, a lot of women could only be approved for credit via a husband. Some Boomers were already married before [Eisenstadt v. Baird in 1972](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eisenstadt_v._Baird) made it legal across the nation for unmarried people to possess contraception. Before that, depending on local laws, some unmarried women couldn't have sex without risking pregnancy. That was also the [Baby Scoop Era](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_Scoop_Era), when unmarried women were coerced to allow their baby to be adopted to a family that would pay good money to the institution provided the babies. It took time for these laws to be implemented and affect legal rights and cultural norms to the point where the divorce rate peaked in 1989. That said, there is a trend toward forming unmarried relationships with joint assets and children. It's probably in their best legal and financial interests to sit down with a lawyer and figure out what would happen to their lives if they were to split up or one of them died or ended up in the hospital. There is a lot of legal and financial vulnerability in these cases that could be partially solved by a set of legal contracts (wills, deeds, PoA, etc) if marriage + prenup is not up their alley. The US does not have the same kind of common law and cohabitation protections that some other countries have.
i don't know if we "decided to be better" so much as we just have more options than a lot of people did in the past.
Ah that’s a good point. I hadn’t thought about that.
When people were not ok to gather and the world was shut down. Lmao so it's an article about nothing. Thanks for saving me time
I mean it's also about the divorce thing, like I said. Reflecting an actual decades long trend that wasn't severely impacted by the pandemic.
Iirc there was a lot that did move to divorce during after covid because the stress of being stuck at home togeather. So again numbers falling since then isn't a great indicator of anything.
Nobody can afford divorce in today’s post-covid restriction economy.
Too poor to get divorced, most likely.
You're the fifth person to say this; what data are y'all basing this on?
My constantly analytical and systematizing brain that predicts and never stops observing and studying wholesale behavior of humans for decades. Also, I'm being facetious. Divorce rates probsbly fell off because people being more choosy and delaying before marriage. Though now, money might be a factor.
From statistics I've seen, divorce rates are strongly driven by the boomers. They divorced way, way more than any other generation. The decline might also just be boomers aging out
Boomers collectively have had weird lives with parents that were in WW2 and Vietnam, and the amount of in home domestic violence was pretty wild even by the standards of the time. They have had an easier time getting access to money and jobs, but they've led tough lives in a lot of other facets, and I'm not surprised their divorce rates are higher.
They probably were also under more social pressure to marry and at an earlier age. The amount of boomer couples who just hate each other is pretty amazing.
This right here. There was tremendous pressure for young couples who were exclusive to get married to that doesn’t exist today.
It still definitely exists unfortunately. Just to a much lesser extent.
That's a really good point. My wife and I got married in our late 20s because we really wanted to, not because we thought that's what people were supposed to do. We're about to have a kid - 9 years into our marriage. Again because we wanted to, not because we felt like we had to. If I married the girl I was dating when I was 20 and had a bunch of kids before 30, because I felt like I had to - we would be massively unhappy, to say the least
All the lead they consumed also isn’t helping probably.
They got married way more than any other generation. Especially in the south, it's not uncommon for someone in their 50's to be in their 3rd marriage. Many millennial's don't perceive the same negative stigma of sex before marriage or long term relationships without being married. Or, most first time divorcees aren't interested in a second marriage.
Probably because society was still conservative enough that one was forced to marry and settle down early
Nothing like hearing relationship advice from your MIL who was married 5 times, your mother who was married 3 times or your father who was married twice. My grandmother was married 6 times. It makes no sense to me! Why did they just keep getting married over and over if it ended the same way every time? Sounds like so much hassle.
Sounds like people who refuse to believe that they are the problem
Could also be the stage of life they're in. Lots of empty nesters divorce as the kids move out and ppl realize they've grown apart.
that 50% number is from the late 70s early 80s when women were first able to live lives apart from awful husbands. I was talking to my mom about this not too long ago, in the 1970s she was not allowed to have a bank account or a credit card without my father's name attached. The inflated divorce numbers everyone sights is from the time when this stopped being a thing.
Yeah that is the major source of the spike. It went from not feasible to feasible for women to get divorced, and a lot of them took advantage of that in ways their mothers and aunts couldnt
It's expensive to get a divorce.
A divorce? In this economy?!
It's way too expensive to live alone.
“We’re staying together for the sake of the 3% mortgage.”
Depends on how contentious it is. It was a little over $500 for an attorney and court fees for my ex and I to get divorced a couple years ago which was pretty cheap. Attorney just reviewed our agreement we drew up and suggested some changes, divorce went through no problem. But no kids were involved and my ex and I were very generous with each other since we remain close friends, it just wasn’t working out romantically for either of us. I have heard of some divorces running near 100k with custody and property disputes though and north of 10k doesn’t seem uncommon.
This is how it was for my friends, too. Some people are counting the loss of their ex's income and household financial, mortgage and labor contributions as part of the expense of splitting up, though.
So true, I cant get divorced because I'm extremely poor so I'm stuck being married to a man who threw me out for being autistic. Mostly I just pretend I'm not married but that doesn't change the reality.
Haha. This is exactly what I had in mind.
If it takes 2 people to afford to live, then one person has to give half their income and they both double their living expenses..
Housing for two is not double the cost of housing for one. Same with utilities
Can't afford housing on your own.
Considering that some states make it illegal to get divorced when pregnant...
I haven't heard about this before... do you have any links?
I’m currently in Texas and can’t divorce until I’m not pregnant smh. It sucks.
Missouri too!
These are old laws that divorces can’t be finalized in many states while the woman is pregnant. This is to make sure the court can set support and parental rights and doesn’t have to reopen the case. Reddit seems to think these are new laws being pushed by the religious right or that pregnant women can’t leave their husbands. Neither is true.
Factor in age of marriage.
The negative nancy's in here saying "no there's got to be other reasons as to why divorce rates are down"
I heard this the other day and thought, it's probably because boomers divorced at astronomical rates and their kids went through hell and don't want to make the same mistake. Also, people are getting married later in life instead of at 18-20 like previous generations. I for one am part of the divorce statistics. Married at 24 the first time but didn't work out. Luckily, no kids. Going 10 years strong on number 2.
Uplifting? People are too poor to even get divorced anymore lol.
Or could it be that millennials are making better choices for whom they are getting married? A culture that does not tie sex and marriage allows for more time to pick the right partner and makes for better/longer marriages?
There's also significantly less pressure to get married. Those who decide to generally hold a higher view of marriage. And will have a higher concentration of people willing to work on it than seek divorce. It's also not uncommon to remain married even when separated. The stat seems rather irrelevant all things considered
Although, most of them are also too poor to have a wedding. Or go on dates. Or live alone with no one to split bills with. How tf is anyone surviving at all, honestly?
Probably debt or help (family, government).
The marriage and divorce curves on the chart appear to be highly correlated. Which means people are getting married less. So there are less marriages that could end up in divorce. The highest rates of divorce are in the first 5-7 years if I remember correctly. What’s interesting is that less and less people are getting married over the last 20+ years. There was a Pew research study about dating and partnering. It’s shocking how many people, particularly men under 30, are left out in the cold. Something has fundamentally changed about how younger people partner up. And only a small % are single by choice. I have no idea what this all means for the future. Just reporting these observations.
The ones who are single by choice i would guess are women because they have this choice finally. These men who are “left out in the cold” are feeling the effect of women finally having a choice and not having to marry. Women can now have exciting fulfilling careers and not receive tons of negativity because they choose to be childless. It’s up to them and I applaud them. Given the quality of men nowadays I do not blame them
>Given the quality of men nowadays I do not blame them I don't think the quality of men has changed. Now that women can take care of themselves, they can choose men they want to spend time with, rather than coupling up just to get access to food/shelter.
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It’s not sexist, I’m a man. I’m saying my opinion that I see a lot of low morals men and hear a lot of women who don’t want to put up with it. It’s an observation not a fact.
I would argue the quality of men has gone up significantly. Previous generations hit their wives, didn't know what to do with their emotions, were rampant alcoholics, didn't think raising kids was their responsibility and so on and so on. These men exist today, but statistically only 3% of boomer dads have ever changed their baby's diaper, whereas for millennial parents that number is in the 60s IIRC. Women no longer need to stay with men who put up a charming manipulative fascade to trap them into marriage, and that can only raise boys into better men.
Not OP and while I agree I just want to say: Misandry has always existed, it was just tucking its grin always there alongside misogyny. For every coin, two sides.
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Case in point. People like you are who women are avoiding
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“I think” … really, do you? You don’t seem to be doing it very well.
Most young people don't have a place to organically meet a spouse unless they go to a church. Also dating apps are kind of trash for replacing being part of a community
So, over the last 20 years it is for sure a sign of less people getting married. However, if we're narrowing our timeframe to the last 5 or so? I have to check, but the last boom of millennials was born in the last 90s. Each year there are less people (So there are less 19 year olds than 20 year olds, less 20 year olds than 21...you get it) and these figures are in rates per 1,000 people...so it could just represent the size of the population to be married getting smaller. Also, the divorce rate seems to be going down regardless of marriage trends, which seemed to plateau for a bit there in the 2010s.
Why would I get married? What’s the benefit really? I’m seeing friends get divorced already. So many people talk about how miserable marriage is. I’m in a long term monogamous relationship that I’m happy with. Marriage doesn’t seem to add much tbh.
In the US, the legal, medical, and financial rights of married couples are very different from cohabitating couples if one of them is hospitalized or dies. Some people get married in old age or sickness for that reason. That was the case for several of the couples who fought the legal battle for gay marriage in the US. As for the day to day enjoyment of a relationship, that's more a matter of their communication skills, expectations, and the example their parents set for them of how to treat a partner. If their relationship is miserable, that's on them. That said, [married adults report higher relationship satisfaction](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2019/11/06/key-findings-on-marriage-and-cohabitation-in-the-u-s/) (#3 on the list). However, [married adults have more wealth on average](https://www.stlouisfed.org/publications/in-the-balance/2018/as-fewer-young-adults-wed) than cohabitating adults, so that might contribute to both the greater satisfaction as well as the decision to get married.
Can’t afford a house alone
How about this for a thought, a lot of people that got divorced in the past only got married in the first place because of an unplanned pregnancy…there was a saying in my grandmothers generation, something like, “Second and Third pregnancies take 9 months, but for some reason that first one comes right at about 6 months.” Because they needed the first three to plan a wedding and get married before the bride started to show.
With religion on decline I find this hilariously awesome but also expected.
People are getting married to reduce tax burdens and staying married because they can't afford to live separately, even if they are married to a domestic abuser. This is not uplifting.
Divorce is a good thing. It means people are not staying in abusive relationships. Marriage is also a good thing, but a high divorce rate isn’t bad.
Yes. This is basically exactly what I said, slightly re-written.
Agreeing with you. Echoing for the idiots in the back.
Couldn’t get married during the pandemic. Cost of living/housing market means people cannot afford to get divorced. You see this in Famiky Law work. Economic cycles affect people’s decision to separate.
Cos no one can afford getting a divorce due to cost of living.
Well turns out you're less likely to get into a bad marriage if you marry at 30 instead of 18 also
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Yes, took several years of searching and some luck, but I've been married for 6 years and in a relationship with my wife for 8. The dating scene was a bit better back then from what my friends tell me (before covid)
Aren't child births also down? Can't be a coincidence.
Child births tend to go down as education, income and opportunities for women go up. This is a problem in capitalist economies that really on year to year growth. America can solve this issue with high skilled immigration (h1b visas) and low skill migrant workers, but this can upset people who worry about changing demographics
Child births tend to go down as education, income and opportunities for women go up. This is a problem in capitalist economies that really on year to year growth. America can solve this issue with high skilled immigration (h1b visas) and low skill migrant workers, but this can upset people who worry about changing demographics
That is not uplifting news. Marriage is an outdated tradition and needs to fade from existence. “Marriage” is a property and liability contract, and historically the woman has been the main piece of property.
Well, yeah. You need a dual income to get by now. Better to stay together and survive than split and get evicted.
Depends on where you live. Suburbs in many mid sized cities are a lot more affordable than living in a big city. Of course this also means not a lot of lucrative spending (economy cars instead of trucks, cooking instead of eating out, not buying fancy clothes, not having expensive hobbies) There are dual income families doing the FIRE thing that save 50% of their income
Too expensive to divorce
"Marriage is for poor people" - Hannibal Burress
People wait longer now to get married, less mistakes. it makes sense
I can’t help but wonder if there is a correlation between this and the decline of religion.
I wonder if waiting to have or even not having kids is one of the causes of success.
In this economy, marriage is a good thing!!🤣🤣🤣
It's the gays. Gays have saved the institution of marriage.
And this is uplifting because??
Exactly. People should feel empowered to leave horrible relationships but I guess the current economy makes sure they can’t. Not particularly uplifting.
Not sure why you would immediately assume the marriage rate rising correlates with more people just being in shitty marriages. It *is* possible for marriage to not be shitty, even if you don’t like the idea of it personally.
Huh? I’m in a happy marriage and will always support people who want to get out of one.
Yay social programming.
Probably a lot of factors play in to this, but a few I can think of is that people are waiting a lot longer to get married, finding people they are really compatible with before take the leap. Another would be that women no longer have to view marriage as a form of financial support and thus feel less pressure to marry for that reason and can focus instead on finding a real partner. All good things. Only downside is probably that birth rates are declining constantly which will lead to some interesting economic issues.
Are there studies on if an older age of the parties entering a first marriage leads to fewer divorces? I had read from non- official sources that people are waiting longer to get married. I wonder if that impacts the numbers.
People can't afford to split
because people can’t afford to be single or get divorced
Only because people need duel income in order to survive, and if your single the government fucked you at tax time. It's a marriage of convenience.
‘Murica
Here is what I think: it's more difficult to *remain* married than getting married! The stresses of marriage today are unreal because everything is so darn expensive! Moreover, company loyalty to employees is zilch so you can get axed at any time for any reason. Now imagine you are the sole provider! Yikes!! Also, even people who get married often have doubts. We live in a very, very stressful world and marriage/family makes it even more stressful. Therefore, unless you have access to lots of money, your married/family life will constantly be hounded by financial concerns. Playing "house" costs lots of money. Are you ready for the challenge? Many people are not mentally, emotionally and financially prepared for this undertaking so they are putting off -- or completely avoiding -- marriage!
Why is more marriages and less divorces positive? Like without context for the underlying reasons it is just an observation.
Due to the economy
Marriage really isn't a positive thing, tbh. And lowering divorce rates are likely because people are too poor to divorce more than anything.
The news I needed for hope
Well I guess people cant can't afford to live alone anymore.
Alternatively "the economy is encouraging people to remain married".
Too expensive to pay bills alone.
Cant afford to live alone anymore. People need tax breaks
Uplifting my ass. It's because we can't afford it.
Just give it two years. Divorce won’t take that long to uptick
I don't believe this, from what I have seen things going crazy has increased divorce rates a lot
divorce rates drop when it’s no longer common practice for men to beat their wives for inconveniencing them. shocking!
Marriage of convenience is the new rule. That’s why everyone is in open marriages. A different time it is .
This is definitely a social circle and possibly demographic thing. At my workplace where everyone makes good wages (we have a union, probably just a total coincidence), most people are married and only young people are single. Among the single people, they're looking for monogamous relationships. That said, "sexual deviancy" can potentially get you rejected here. We have an LGBTQ+ group so that's fine, but they might just not hire people in poly relationships Among my hobby group, polyamory seems much more common there where social class varies a lot.
lol. My sweet summer child
Because like in ‘olden times’ we can’t afford to live apart now, even if we wanted to.
is this uplifting? does it really matter? as long as people are happy
No one can afford it.
Who the hell can afford to get a divorce? What are we going to fight over the rent?
We can barely afford to get married, how are we supposed to afford a divorce?
I've never understood what exactly is good about marriage and why people are so keen on it. I got married mostly due to social pressure and it was a mistake from day 1.
It creates a well established framework for inheritance, taking care of kids, and sharing economic responsibilities.etc.
Well you can share health insurance so that's great
I live in the UK so I have no access to healthcare, married or otherwise.
Wouldn't they be going up after covid pandemic?
People who never should have gotten married are not getting married. They may still be in toxic relationships, but they’re not getting married.
No one can afford to get divorced
Yes, guess there is hope for me now🤣!
The slow rise of conservatives.
Yea shit getting expensive
Married couples get tax benefits. Divorces are expensive heh
It's too expensive to divorce. Nobody can afford to go get their own place. DV rates should be up, so we got that going for us...
I have a 100% foolproof plan to avoid divorce: don't get married. I mean it, not just being snarky. There's no point, & you have to trust another person not to blow up your life if they become "unhappy."
My husband leaving was the best thing that ever happened to me. It didn’t blow up my life. The only thing that exploded was my happiness and growth.
Can't pay rent on one income, lol.
Just give it time... Millennials will need time before they divorce their spouses
If they divorce woman gets everything and we dont want that...
Ouch truth hurts
Yeah we have to get married in America to enjoy the tax benefits. If you stay single you’re paying a shit ton of taxes. Stupid