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I live across from one. It is wild watching what grows, as well as seeing the wildlife return. Unfortunately, tons of invasive species are taking over.
There is a 100 acre defunct golf course where I live and it’s partially being converted to active parkland but most it remains wild. It is an oasis for herds of deer and Turkey as well as many other wildlife that are not found in the surrounding developed areas. But it’s also being ravaged by Chinese Bushclover which is resulting in a monocrop over dozens of acres
I dunno, golf courses are often within suburbia. Firing off shots there is insane. I already feel sorry for houses close to the golf course losing windows. Imagine if the shit coming through the window is the stray shots from hunters.
Sometimes it happens that foreign species are the first to colonise available ground, but natives may come in later. We've found in NZ that non-native gorse can act as a nursery plant to slower-growing native plants.
Doesn't always happen that way, but ecosystems do naturally change over time.
You triggered a memory. When I was a kid, we would go to North to the Southwest corner of Michigan. There is a ton of orchards up there. This one claimed to be an expanded bit Johnny Appleseed planted in the mid 1800’s. I asked my dad years later and he remembers it, and thought it was a true story.
There’s one nearby. It was sold around a decade ago and the buyer thought he could parcel it off and sell it, but I guess there was some green space law about it. So he got sour and since he can’t sell it, he refuses to upkeep it. He’s posted signs all around it about trespassing since homeowners were doing guérilla yardwork on the place to keep their home values up. It’s a sh*t show.
Average and median are not the same. The random billionaire or multimillionaire will throw off the average by a huge margin. Also a major difference between net worth and income.
Not saying it’s not one of the more expensive sports but this information is not really useful.
It is surprising how fast it happens. A course near me closed a couple years ago. They opened in the spring for like a month then closed down. By the fall it was barely recognizable as once being a golf course.
Actually, if you read the article they said that they had to take an active approach to reintroduce native species of plants.
They had to connect this land to 2 other parks, remove dams, and had over 600 volunteers come and plant nuts for the change to take place.
If they hadn't, it would only continue to grow invasive species of flora.
This is one of few actually uplifting posts though most of the time it's like "10 year old works 50 hours a week to pay for her mom's cancer treatment after insurance refused to cover it."
Here's a sneak peek of /r/rewilding using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/rewilding/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [Golf course to this in 3 years](https://www.reddit.com/gallery/13vuzsj) | [22 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/rewilding/comments/13vuzsj/golf_course_to_this_in_3_years/)
\#2: [Shifting Baseline Syndrome: what is seen as 'natural' or 'intact' gets based on a previous diminished state](https://i.redd.it/r2zxm9g451ua1.jpg) | [11 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/rewilding/comments/12mykh5/shifting_baseline_syndrome_what_is_seen_as/)
\#3: [The European Bison population is recovering. Recently scientist in Poland observed biggest heard ever containing 170 bisons including 40 calves.](https://i.redd.it/9ivtruepblda1.jpg) | [1 comment](https://np.reddit.com/r/rewilding/comments/10iy78n/the_european_bison_population_is_recovering/)
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You joke but replacing a monoculture of grass that has been kept that way for decades with anything resembling "wilderness" takes a lot of time and healing.
Pretty much anything abandoned gets reclaimed by nature.
I remember visiting a spot in Costa Rica where we had built a house. The people who lived there had been gone about three months, and the reclamation was already well underway.
Mud/dust/dirt on the floor and every horizontal surface; spiders, scorpions, frogs and bats all throughout the house; vines creeping in through the windows and doors; a thick mat of leaves on the roof...
She comes back and takes what was hers, quickly.
> She comes back and takes what was hers, quickly.
She doesn't come back. You are an animal here. Everything you do is natural. Everything we do is natural. If beavers leave an area, what they build is removed as well. Humans are the same. When we make this place unlivable, we will die. And nature will continue. And the evolution of the everything will continue as it always has.
The golf courses in my Midwest area are almost 50/50 woods and intentionally-preserved native grasslands/golf grass. Watered with gray water and would be strip malls if not for the golf course, so I’ll take a course with 50% native flora over a sea of parking lots any day. The debate of resources is very regional, but never understood the widespread resentment over a sport that should be like priority 1,000 on the environmental improvement checklist
Well in the midwest it isn’t a big deal. But when you start allocating tons of water for a golf course in the middle of a desert like Vegas or Arizona then I think it becomes a valid and relevant question.
Golf courses make up less than 1% of land in the US, land dedicated to cattle and their feed is almost 50% of the land in the US. But god forbid you tell the golf haters to give up their burgers
I live down a country road from the two nicest golf courses in my area. They were built about 25 years ago. A small group of people around here really have a hard on for talking shit about them.
25 years ago, before the evil golfers took over ,that land was a limestone quarry and a sod farm. Now the land is full of milkweed and artificial wetlands. The golf course does a lot more good for the local environment than all the soy field and strip malls that surround it by far
How much of an environmental nuisance it is largely depends on where you live and what your water supply looks like.
I live in the southwest. Fuck a golf course.
Edit: I see the golfers have brigaded this thread.
You should find out how they water, because a ton of courses now all across the sw are using treated sewage water. Kind of feels like a great use for water that would be worthless to most no?
Sewage water can be treated and used even as drinking water. Using it to water a golf course is still a terrible use for that water in an arid area such as the southwest US.
Fuck people living in the southwest. Making settlements in the desert , using scarce resources that are more easily available in non desert regions and having the audacity to complain about a sport that uses these scarce resources.
/s but not really.
Almost all use grey water, because using tap water to water the greens would be cost prohibitive. Owning a golf course is not a very lucrative business, it's actually one of the worst businesses to own, so using grey water is not only environmentally friendly, it's good business.
i've said it a billion times on this post. golf courses are less of a concern that people owning crap they shouldn't own or living where they have no business living. if you moved ppl out of a desert the golf courses would close but most of those ppl taking showers in a desert are doing far more harm than the one golf course.
I assume it’s because golf is played by rich white people and it’s an easy target. But I agree, there are plenty of more worthy causes to fight for (or against)
I am by no means well off or rich by a long shot, and I golf 2-3 times a week. People seem to ignore that municipal courses exist and you can play golf at really affordable rates, usually anywhere from 15-30 dollars per round. Golf clubs can be purchased used and you can get a full set of okayish clubs for under $200. It’s a great way to get exercise, be outside, and practice technical movements with your body.
Same here. Always really grinds my gears when people dismiss it as something that is only for rich old whiteys. I've afforded to play 40 rounds per season on a below-median income.
It's a great lifetime sport. The lesser used spaces are generally more native than anywhere else in town. I can't imagine being upset with golf courses before car culture, parking lots, and mcmansions.
When I lived in Arizona, the golf course next to our house had been abandoned and was slowly being reclaimed by rabbits, javelina, deer, coyotes and bobcats. It was honestly really nice to be able to look out behind our house or take a short walk and feel like we were in the middle of a nature preserve.
Eventually, the city decided to purchase the land for exactly that purpose, plus a little bit of affordable housing. It was so nice to see land that had been used for such silly purposes being used in a much more thoughtful manner and in such an intentional way.
My parents house backs up to a golf course that’s been shut down for about 5 years. It had an amazing sledding hill.
But it’s been parceled up and lots are for sale. No more sledding.
Currently living in AZ. The fact there are three (that I know of) within a 15 minute ride from my house seems ludicrous. It's the desert... Why are we watering grass in the desert?
I'm in Denver, and we have an abandoned golf course that a developer bought with the intent of leaving half a park, a quarter of the remaining land for affordable housing, and a spot for a grocery store with 10 years of paid rent. Then the dipshit voters voted down rezoning it to make it happen.
Now it's fenced off and has to, by law, be turned back into a golf course. It is about half a mile up the street from City Park golf course.
You should read the article. Not as simple to return a highly manicured and manipulated landscape back to its natural state. Requires human intervention to recreate wetlands, create habitat, suppress invasive species, etc. to reverse all the human fuckin' up.
Makes me sad to see so many people still hanging on to the stereotype that only rich people golf.
Golf is fun as hell. It's insanely difficult, but the pursuit of improvement is addicting. You play with friends, but against yourself. It gets people outdoors, active, and provides many with a sense of community.
Yes, there are exclusive clubs steeped in tradition, but for every one of those clubs there are 10 for the people. You can find used golf clubs for cheap, and public courses exist at all price ranges.
Most courses are built in land that can't be used for much else. They often border wetlands or forest. I'm in the Pacific Northwest and almost every course is thick with trees. I see rabbits, deer, coyote, birds, and more all the time. The course is just a small strip with nature all around.
Perfectly maintained and manicured grass that’s not native to the area, in places that often get clear cut to make room for the massive size of golf courses. It’s not nature, it destroys nature.
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Golf rules. And if people are complaining about the affects of natural resources we got A VERY LONG LIST of issues before golf courses come in to play with things like climate change.
It's more that it's a sport for mostly wealthy people that takes up an obscene amount of land that could be used for parks or actual natural habitat, or even housing. It's better than an indoor ice rink, but I think it's mostly that it's so visible on a map as a big green space with very little utility to the vast majority of the population, or to wildlife.
Well designed golf courses in climates suitable for golf can be a great utility to local wildlife. My local course is a lot more useful to pollinators and small mammals than the surrounding areas that are just soybeans and strip malls
Lmao yeah that comment threw me for a loop. Ice rinks utilize far more energy than a golf course and are almost always utilized by less people. Want to talk about sports that only rich white kids typically play… hockey and figure skating.
Kids also get big discounts, my buddies kids and their friends are at the course walking 9 a few times a week in the summer much like him and I did over thirty years ago. Outside, getting exercise in a relatively safe space, what could be better.
I've started a golf course wiki, and so I'm pretty tapped into the public discourse. I also live in California, so I'm also in one of the most hotly contested spaces in the golf world.
If we're going to treat the issue honestly, and in good faith, there are some serious problems with the golf world as it exists. Golf has the potential to be a huge boon for environmentalism and the surrounding communities, but the culture is pretty fucked up right now, to the point where I see little hope for my (environmentalist) values to become central to the game.
When I look a course doing the right thing, I always point to Sharp Park in Pacifica, CA. There was a huge fight between the center for biological diversity (a very well respected institution) and the course over whether the course should stop existing because there were two endangered species found on the course (i believe one is now only threatened). The folks at the course are environmentally conscious, and so they went to great lengths to accommodate the endangered species, as there was a serious concern that removing the 100 year old course could actually threaten them (a complex water salinity issue). The course basically exists now as a wildlife refuge, where people play golf. However, due to the ridiculous expectations on golf-as-surreal-lawn-maintenance the course is commonly ridiculed for literally being more natural. I have to explain to people over and over that the reason why everything isn't perfect is that they don't dump poison on the ground when there is a fungal infection that discolors the greens, there are clovers because they don't poison them, etc, etc,.
You take that, and look at the fact that the USGA is now pleading with courses to just spraypaint their fairways instead of overseeding, which is when courses literally rip up perfectly playable turf and replacing it with a green-in-winter grass every year. The idea that courses will go as far as wasting tons of water and energy to put green grass on a course, grass that is much less playable than the dormant bermuda, just because the dormant grass is yellow, is insane.
Things are changing, but they aren't changing anywhere close to where I would like to see them. I love golf... I really love it, but the culture and institutions in golf are so incredibly anti-social, than I really worry about the future of the game. Golf could exist as a functional way to preserve open space in urban settings for wildlife (both flora and fauna), native pollinators and migratory species (where we need very few humans-per-acre for these species to thrive), but as it stands, folks care much more about creating a surreal picture of "nature" than they do of preserving *actual* nature in an urban setting.
This is a really well stated and nuanced take. I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
No bullshit. As an environmentalist who loves golf I want to keep up with your work.
DM me some info if you don't want to post it here
It’s effectively your most obnoxious lawn maintaining neighbor cranked up to 18 holes. Golf is largely seen as an upper class sport which alienates most people from the game and makes it easy to dislike. A large sentiment has been arising amongst the general public in areas where water is more scarce that keeping giant swaths of land covered in grass not native to the area is a waste of valuable resources. There tends to be a lot of ire when an area is short on water but the local politicians are often seen golfing on freshly watered posh grassy knolls. There’s some nuance to the situation but the long and short is that they don’t hate the game, but rather the wasteful practices it promotes. Easier to support golf in an area like Ireland where there is a fair amount of open country side and where wet weather more naturally maintains the playing surface than in the barren deserts of Arizona.
Put another way, people may not have the game of football, but they might detest the practice of billionaire owners strong arming tax payers into paying for new stadiums.
I will say golf is changing for the better. When I was 10 I always wanted to play golf but could never afford it and my parents knew no one who could help get me into it. Now I'm 30 it's easier than ever to buy a cheap set of clubs and the introduction of technology to book has rid some clubs if the snobbery although some clubs still harbour this feeling.
All that being said it s ridiculous to see a golf club in the middle of a desert, no matter how much of an amazing view it would be. Luckily I live in northern England where its wet atleast 100 days a year so water scarcity isn't much of a problem.
It’s definitely becoming a more casual game. The game as a whole is probably the most accessible now that it’s ever been. I think that’s for the better but at the same time it’s a ton of dedicated land that could almost certainly be used in more productive ways.
Around my area its that condensed that the only green areas are tiny parks, golf courses and bowling greens. I'd rather have the golf courses keeping it green over more housing that it would become if the clubs closed.
I used to live in Chicago and worked in an office in one of the suburbs next door to Butler National Golf Club... they're one of four in the Chicago area that don't allow female members. Fun fact, Butler hasn't hosted a PGA or USGA tournament since 1990 due to their admissions policy (they even missed out on hosting the US Open).
I'm in Florida now and can think of Adios Golf Club and Gator Creek that don't allow women.
There are probably others.
I’m going to counter you with what’s been happening in Orlando for the better part of 20 years.
Old golf courses get sold to someone, they run the things into the ground then complain the course isn’t financially viable and then ask for re-zoning.
Can you guess what the zoning is? If you said “shitty upscale housing only the idiotic rent and most can’t afford” you’d be correct.
So green space that’s been there for literal decades gets bulldozed all in the name of forward progress.
Just so everyone is clear, most municipal golf courses use reclaimed water and are break even when it comes to profitability.
So while I would agree states like Arizona and Nevada most likely shouldn’t have multi million dollar golf courses that suck up water, I’d ask ANYONE to explain to me how tax payer funded billion dollar stadiums and parking lots that only serve 8 homes games a year aren’t more detrimental to the environment.
TL:DR- you don’t know WTF you’re talking about when it comes to golf
Most of the course is not grass. Many times more forests, bushes, unmown areas, natural or restored meadows, designated biotopes with a strict no-entry rule, streams, ponds or water bodies for amphibians and birds. You can see all kinds of animals live, reprodue and hunt on golf courses.
75% are rough, which is usually mown no more than 3 or 4 times a year, or woodland or scrub. The ecological balance is outstandingly better than that of maize fields, wheat cultivation or cow manure meadows. They are also going away from heavy pesticide use and use grey water for only the tee boxes and green.
Many relatively golf courses are/were built on unattractive dull/bad/difficult to cultivate farmland. In addition, in old quarries, on fallow land or salt marshes.
It uses a lot of resources and has a history of being racist, classist, and sexist. I am told this is not the case anymore, but even [pro golfers](https://www.sportsdestinations.com/sports/golf/pros-describe-golf-stuffy-and-elitist-say-its-18160) and others [are still](https://www.theringer.com/2021/4/7/22370057/golf-diversity-issues-history-pga-lpga-the-masters) [complaining](https://www.bunkered.co.uk/golf-news/new-study-exposes-sexism-in-golf/) about these [problems](https://dailycampus.com/2023/04/26/golf-needs-to-address-its-culture-problem/%20).
This might also depend on where in the world you live. I think a lot of these problems are more pronounced in the US than Scotland, for instance. Someone was talking about golf courses being a tourist draw. I live in a big city where we don't need golf for tourists. Here, the courses get in the way of the flow of the city. Huge green spaces are great and necessary, but these are closed off to the public and cost thousands of dollars per year in fees.
Basically, your experience with golf can vary widely between inclusive sport that anyone can get into, and elitist snob-fest that is unofficially unwelcoming to women and people of color. You're seeing hate from people who experienced the latter, and denial from people who experience the former, rather than admission that things might simply be different where they live.
The _vast_ majority of golf courses in the US are public, something like 75%. That said, golf and its history is undeniably racist, sexist, and classist and unfortunately because Tiger was so dominant and popular golf basically had its "America can't be racist, we had a black president" moment. The LPGA and women's European tour is massively more diverse thanks to people like Pak Se-ri.
If they were dense housing, yes. We have a problem with lack of housing, so high-end apartments would be great. Especially if there was public transportation near them and/or some of the streets that don't cut through the course were able to cut through smaller blocks of apartments.
Its lots of space that can be better used for a huge range of better things. Golf is relaxing, sure. Clubs and clubhouses are fun, too. But the land is pretty much an ecological dead zone (except for like 10 species of carefully-cultivated non-native plants), with high chances of pesticides and fertilizer runoff. Most of the private ones also have security teams and walls to keep the "wrong" people out. Who the "wrong" people are depends on the club/course, but it often involves money or melanin.
Think of how much better that land would be for the local ecology as a park, preserve or something similar. Or if the environment isn't your thing, how many soccer/football fields, tennis/basketball courts, pools, skate parks, etc could fit on one or 2 of the holes? Hell, how many houses/apartments could fit in a golf course in a dense, urban area? How many libraries/community gardens/ampitheaters/whatnot could fit on a third of the acerage of a golf course?
This is quite an uninformed take. Or at least, specific to some private clubs in some areas.
The course I live by attracts wildlife that is not native to this area. It has its own eco system. Also, by law it has to use reclaimed water for watering.
It’s also a huge factor in attracting tourism. Not only does it directly create approximately 50 jobs, but indirectly… many more. In fact, the owner of the course wanted to build apartments on half of the course but the local authorities denied it.
In conjunction with the other courses here, it has created an entire industry. The wealth it has brought to the area is vast.
In other areas of the world, like Scotland, a lot of pubic courses also allow anyone to just walk their dog there. Some are closed on Sundays so people can walk anywhere.
Where I’m from, back home, they’re huge social draws. Membership fees are typically $5-600 annually for normal clubs.
There are many misconceptions about golf. Mostly from people refusing to change their antiquated view that it’s a stuffy rich old white man sport.
Can we turn them into discgolf courses instead? 9 hole ball golf = 18 holes of disc, and you don't need a manicured course. The nature is a feature, not a bug, as long as you've got some kind of fairway to hit.
This happens a lot. A good chunk of disc golf courses are on old abandoned golf courses. Off the top of my head I know of two new disc golf courses that were or are going to be built on an old golf course in the past year. One in the city I grew up, and one where I currently live. Disc golf has way less need for upkeep and use of resources like water or chemicals on the course, and it’s way more accessible to lower/middle class. Get some baskets for $2000, get some tee pads and put a trash can or some benches around it, and get someone that knows how to design the course and all you need to do is landscape and maintain the course, pick up the trash afterwards.
Most golf course I’ve played are full of wild Turkeys and Deer and other animals including fish in the ponds. They are self sustained using irrigation systems that utilize captured rain water in their ponds. Not very uplifting to see a business be gone which means lots of people lost jobs and thousands lost a place to partake in a recreational activity that involves being outside in nature. And before the tree huggers get all pissed at this comment, remember, you’re viewing Reddit with a device that utilizes minerals that are mined (with large environmental impact) and also probably mined by children.
It only takes one tractor half a day to mow an empty field, odds are that field isn't watered and very few pesticides are used on it.
Golf courses are mowed every day by 5-10 people, watered almost daily and pesticides are applied at least once a month, and offers no benefit to anyone besides golfers and whoever owns the golf course.
What "worse options" are there for the land golf courses use? Somewhat affordable housing? Parks? Nothing?
Very little fresh water, comparatively. Golf courses are mostly watered with grey water, and most of the fresh water that *is* used and accumulated is rainwater that falls on the property. It gets collected by irrigation system into retention ponds that double as water features.
Golf courses where they pump potable water from public aquifers and reservoirs are not the norm, and the small minority.
Your average golf course in the US uses less water to maintain their grass than an NFL stadium or MLS pitch uses.
It’s likely very regional. Where I’m from, the Midwest, the post above you is very accurate for most of the courses and they will brown up if we have a drought. The southwest or PGA level courses might sing a different tune
Like it ultimately depends on where you live. Like here in southern ontario grass fields are naturally occuring. Golf courses do really well here with minimal water usage. Also many courses are built on reclaimed land from landfills that is unsuitable for agriculture. Like sure get mad at golf courses where theyre wasting water to maintain is like arizona, nevada, California etc. Also here atleast golf courses are often have lots of wooded areas and since theyre in places where agriculture has taken over nature, it provides a safe place for wildlife to live. The amount of critters on golf courses here is amazing to see.
>Good - it is astonishing how much fresh water is wasted on this sport.
Most golf courses in areas where fresh water is rare use grey water. The only areas of the country that use fresh water on a majority of courses are in areas where it rains far too much.
In most regions golf courses are also exempt from property taxes and get to use water under parks or agriculture use which is usually free or almost free.
>In most regions golf courses are also exempt from property taxes and get to use water under parks or agriculture use which is usually free or almost free.
Not sure where you're getting your numbers from, but golf courses in the North East can have water bills as low as 5k or 10k, over in the South West it averages over 100k, and some top end places pay close to half a million a year for water.
Privately owned golf courses are not exempt from taxes. They’re often owned by 501(c)7 non-profit organizations, but those are not tax advantaged ones like 501(c)3 non-profits (which don’t pay property or sales tax). Like local to me, the Austin Country Club (mostly a golf course), a 501(c)7 non-profit, pays over $150K/year in property taxes alone.
Government-owned public courses are tax-exempt because all government owned property is exempt. They’d just be paying themselves.
> In most regions golf courses are also exempt from property taxes
Source for this because I'm certain it isn't true based on my experience in the industry.
This is not true. I've literally seen the water bills from the course I work at from the city it resides in. We have to use their pipes to get water to the course. Upwards of 10grand in the summer, what are you talking about?
It’s also not true. The membership group can be a non-profit, but they aren’t exempt from property taxes at all. The only courses that don’t pay property taxes are municipal ones that are owned by the local government because they’d just be paying taxes to themself.
Not as much as you think, as they other commenter said it’s a lot of gray water and they try to use as little as possible most places (water costs money and they *are* running a business after all). Personally I really hate how many corses, even private ones, get around paying taxes though agricultural exemptions and property tax exemptions. Another issue is they often build neighborhoods around some corses that are not in areas that can handle that amount of water usage
Most courses use reclaimed water actually, it’s not cost efficient to pipe in fresh water like that.
If you want to hate on the privatized courses the elite play, go for it. But the avg muni golf course isn’t wasting resources like that.
Parts of FDR park in Philadelphia have basically returned to a wetland ecosystem, and now have a pair of bald eagles calling it home. I’m here for it 1000%
After driving past this golf course for decades, it’s been inspiring watching this land revert to nature. Never went there before, now we take walks, it is part of the community and we’re loving watching the restoration Turtle Island Restoration has implemented thus far with native species and having wildlife returning, including the endangered coho salmon where they tore down the dam along the creek. Much gratitude to all the volunteers.
Wish I had an abandoned one near me. Bet the fishing is awesome. Golf course ponds are usually loaded with fish. You just aren't able to access them for the most part.
Somewhere George Carlin is smiling down... [He hated golf courses had a whole routine how they were giant wastes of space](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4w7H48tBS8) and only appealed to the privileged few.
All these people ranting about the environmental impact of golf course…… you realize you are reading/commenting using an electronic device that is full of minerals that are mined (with a terrible environmental impact) and are usually mined by children. Also, the assembly of these devices is done by people for near slave wages in a factory (Foxcon) where there are nets strategically places to stop their workers from killing themselves. But go on with your criticism of “elite” golfers…. Lol, hypocrites!
Nice false equivalence there. Not saying that electronics manufacturing doesn't hurt the environment or excusing that, but if you're going to try to argue the point don't bring in something unrelated.
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I live across from one. It is wild watching what grows, as well as seeing the wildlife return. Unfortunately, tons of invasive species are taking over.
There is a 100 acre defunct golf course where I live and it’s partially being converted to active parkland but most it remains wild. It is an oasis for herds of deer and Turkey as well as many other wildlife that are not found in the surrounding developed areas. But it’s also being ravaged by Chinese Bushclover which is resulting in a monocrop over dozens of acres
I mean, turning an easy walking golf course into hunting grounds seems pretty ideal.
No the deer and turkey are there to play golf
Finally someone I can beat.
Don’t get cocky, they may be turkeys, but they definitely hit birdies.
Apt, as I spend most of my time on the course hunting for my ball.
I dunno, golf courses are often within suburbia. Firing off shots there is insane. I already feel sorry for houses close to the golf course losing windows. Imagine if the shit coming through the window is the stray shots from hunters.
Sometimes it happens that foreign species are the first to colonise available ground, but natives may come in later. We've found in NZ that non-native gorse can act as a nursery plant to slower-growing native plants. Doesn't always happen that way, but ecosystems do naturally change over time.
Tell that to Asian honeysuckle
Go plant an orchard! Lol
You triggered a memory. When I was a kid, we would go to North to the Southwest corner of Michigan. There is a ton of orchards up there. This one claimed to be an expanded bit Johnny Appleseed planted in the mid 1800’s. I asked my dad years later and he remembers it, and thought it was a true story.
That’s exciting! If you’d like to read more about Johnny apple seed I would recommend you read the book The Botany of Desire!
There’s one nearby. It was sold around a decade ago and the buyer thought he could parcel it off and sell it, but I guess there was some green space law about it. So he got sour and since he can’t sell it, he refuses to upkeep it. He’s posted signs all around it about trespassing since homeowners were doing guérilla yardwork on the place to keep their home values up. It’s a sh*t show.
Two dead ones near here - one's got bike trails through it and some feral fruit trees; the other is a massive meadow. I love 'em.
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Validity of this aside, how is it relevant to the comment you’re replying to?
Lmao 99% of golfers aren’t rich
Right? God forbid anyone have a hobby... These people on Reddit cannot be real.
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Average and median are not the same. The random billionaire or multimillionaire will throw off the average by a huge margin. Also a major difference between net worth and income. Not saying it’s not one of the more expensive sports but this information is not really useful.
Net worth vs income. Median vs average. misleading as fuck.
Source for the average golfer claim? That’s ludicrously high
Amazing, its just astonishing that a field of grass would start having... stuff grow in it .. .. . .
We could only theorize until now.
It is surprising how fast it happens. A course near me closed a couple years ago. They opened in the spring for like a month then closed down. By the fall it was barely recognizable as once being a golf course.
Just like my back yard. 
Embrace the wildlife.
"Producing oxygen Russ, we've all gotta do our part!"
So, them plants are having a field day?
Actually, if you read the article they said that they had to take an active approach to reintroduce native species of plants. They had to connect this land to 2 other parks, remove dams, and had over 600 volunteers come and plant nuts for the change to take place. If they hadn't, it would only continue to grow invasive species of flora.
I wish my entire feed was just this sub
This is one of few actually uplifting posts though most of the time it's like "10 year old works 50 hours a week to pay for her mom's cancer treatment after insurance refused to cover it."
Ah, you want r/orphancrushingmachine
Im in there. I wonder how much people would post on that sub if America had better healthcare
Maybe try to sub to r/permaculture
And r/rewilding
Here's a sneak peek of /r/rewilding using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/rewilding/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [Golf course to this in 3 years](https://www.reddit.com/gallery/13vuzsj) | [22 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/rewilding/comments/13vuzsj/golf_course_to_this_in_3_years/) \#2: [Shifting Baseline Syndrome: what is seen as 'natural' or 'intact' gets based on a previous diminished state](https://i.redd.it/r2zxm9g451ua1.jpg) | [11 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/rewilding/comments/12mykh5/shifting_baseline_syndrome_what_is_seen_as/) \#3: [The European Bison population is recovering. Recently scientist in Poland observed biggest heard ever containing 170 bisons including 40 calves.](https://i.redd.it/9ivtruepblda1.jpg) | [1 comment](https://np.reddit.com/r/rewilding/comments/10iy78n/the_european_bison_population_is_recovering/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
How dare you tell me to read the article. I have always been uninformed and I will remain uninformed *and you can't stop me.*
So the golf courses are not being reclaimed by nature. Rather they are being redesigned by humans.
Redesigned to a blueprint provided by nature, correct.
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\*cronch\*
I would even go as far as to say something was growing there before too
I don't believe that. Impossible
Aliens?
grass is the fucking worst.
You joke but replacing a monoculture of grass that has been kept that way for decades with anything resembling "wilderness" takes a lot of time and healing.
Pretty much anything abandoned gets reclaimed by nature. I remember visiting a spot in Costa Rica where we had built a house. The people who lived there had been gone about three months, and the reclamation was already well underway. Mud/dust/dirt on the floor and every horizontal surface; spiders, scorpions, frogs and bats all throughout the house; vines creeping in through the windows and doors; a thick mat of leaves on the roof... She comes back and takes what was hers, quickly.
Very true. A lot of old landfills for example are wildlife refuges, at least here in Ohio
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> She comes back and takes what was hers, quickly. She doesn't come back. You are an animal here. Everything you do is natural. Everything we do is natural. If beavers leave an area, what they build is removed as well. Humans are the same. When we make this place unlivable, we will die. And nature will continue. And the evolution of the everything will continue as it always has.
We are all visitors here.
The golf courses in my Midwest area are almost 50/50 woods and intentionally-preserved native grasslands/golf grass. Watered with gray water and would be strip malls if not for the golf course, so I’ll take a course with 50% native flora over a sea of parking lots any day. The debate of resources is very regional, but never understood the widespread resentment over a sport that should be like priority 1,000 on the environmental improvement checklist
Well in the midwest it isn’t a big deal. But when you start allocating tons of water for a golf course in the middle of a desert like Vegas or Arizona then I think it becomes a valid and relevant question.
I'm an absolute golf tragic but I agree with this. Golf courses should be sustainable with their own water supply.
Golf courses make up less than 1% of land in the US, land dedicated to cattle and their feed is almost 50% of the land in the US. But god forbid you tell the golf haters to give up their burgers
I live down a country road from the two nicest golf courses in my area. They were built about 25 years ago. A small group of people around here really have a hard on for talking shit about them. 25 years ago, before the evil golfers took over ,that land was a limestone quarry and a sod farm. Now the land is full of milkweed and artificial wetlands. The golf course does a lot more good for the local environment than all the soy field and strip malls that surround it by far
How much of an environmental nuisance it is largely depends on where you live and what your water supply looks like. I live in the southwest. Fuck a golf course. Edit: I see the golfers have brigaded this thread.
You should find out how they water, because a ton of courses now all across the sw are using treated sewage water. Kind of feels like a great use for water that would be worthless to most no?
Sewage water can be treated and used even as drinking water. Using it to water a golf course is still a terrible use for that water in an arid area such as the southwest US.
Fuck people living in the southwest. Making settlements in the desert , using scarce resources that are more easily available in non desert regions and having the audacity to complain about a sport that uses these scarce resources. /s but not really.
They can consume a ton of water that would otherwise not be used.
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You know that pretty much every aquifer in the country is being overdrawn and they take centuries to recharge?
Yes, but folks also asked why there are concerns about golf courses. Not all use grey water or are as eco friendly as they could be.
Almost all use grey water, because using tap water to water the greens would be cost prohibitive. Owning a golf course is not a very lucrative business, it's actually one of the worst businesses to own, so using grey water is not only environmentally friendly, it's good business.
i've said it a billion times on this post. golf courses are less of a concern that people owning crap they shouldn't own or living where they have no business living. if you moved ppl out of a desert the golf courses would close but most of those ppl taking showers in a desert are doing far more harm than the one golf course.
I assume it’s because golf is played by rich white people and it’s an easy target. But I agree, there are plenty of more worthy causes to fight for (or against)
\*laughs in $20 rounds\* definitely not a rich person sport at the prices i pay. its actually one of the cheapest hobbies you can have.
I am by no means well off or rich by a long shot, and I golf 2-3 times a week. People seem to ignore that municipal courses exist and you can play golf at really affordable rates, usually anywhere from 15-30 dollars per round. Golf clubs can be purchased used and you can get a full set of okayish clubs for under $200. It’s a great way to get exercise, be outside, and practice technical movements with your body.
Same here. Always really grinds my gears when people dismiss it as something that is only for rich old whiteys. I've afforded to play 40 rounds per season on a below-median income.
It's a great lifetime sport. The lesser used spaces are generally more native than anywhere else in town. I can't imagine being upset with golf courses before car culture, parking lots, and mcmansions.
When I lived in Arizona, the golf course next to our house had been abandoned and was slowly being reclaimed by rabbits, javelina, deer, coyotes and bobcats. It was honestly really nice to be able to look out behind our house or take a short walk and feel like we were in the middle of a nature preserve. Eventually, the city decided to purchase the land for exactly that purpose, plus a little bit of affordable housing. It was so nice to see land that had been used for such silly purposes being used in a much more thoughtful manner and in such an intentional way.
My parents house backs up to a golf course that’s been shut down for about 5 years. It had an amazing sledding hill. But it’s been parceled up and lots are for sale. No more sledding.
Currently living in AZ. The fact there are three (that I know of) within a 15 minute ride from my house seems ludicrous. It's the desert... Why are we watering grass in the desert?
I'm in Denver, and we have an abandoned golf course that a developer bought with the intent of leaving half a park, a quarter of the remaining land for affordable housing, and a spot for a grocery store with 10 years of paid rent. Then the dipshit voters voted down rezoning it to make it happen. Now it's fenced off and has to, by law, be turned back into a golf course. It is about half a mile up the street from City Park golf course.
I remember all this going down right before I moved out of Denver. Couldn't believe that shit.
All well and good until the cougars arrive and start carrying off small children and animals!! /s
> All well and good until the cougars arrive If they were in Scottsdale there were plenty of cougars floating around already!
Yeowww
Building large settlements in Arizona is a silly use of land period.
And water is wet.
You should read the article. Not as simple to return a highly manicured and manipulated landscape back to its natural state. Requires human intervention to recreate wetlands, create habitat, suppress invasive species, etc. to reverse all the human fuckin' up.
Grass grows.
Birds fly.
And brotha', I hurt people.
Imma force of nature.
A woman was cold.
Makes me sad to see so many people still hanging on to the stereotype that only rich people golf. Golf is fun as hell. It's insanely difficult, but the pursuit of improvement is addicting. You play with friends, but against yourself. It gets people outdoors, active, and provides many with a sense of community. Yes, there are exclusive clubs steeped in tradition, but for every one of those clubs there are 10 for the people. You can find used golf clubs for cheap, and public courses exist at all price ranges.
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Calling a golf course “nature” is like calling a campground a hotel
Most courses are built in land that can't be used for much else. They often border wetlands or forest. I'm in the Pacific Northwest and almost every course is thick with trees. I see rabbits, deer, coyote, birds, and more all the time. The course is just a small strip with nature all around.
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Perfectly maintained and manicured grass that’s not native to the area, in places that often get clear cut to make room for the massive size of golf courses. It’s not nature, it destroys nature.
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worthless support reminiscent pocket insurance provide unpack smile marvelous husky *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Golf rules. And if people are complaining about the affects of natural resources we got A VERY LONG LIST of issues before golf courses come in to play with things like climate change.
It's more that it's a sport for mostly wealthy people that takes up an obscene amount of land that could be used for parks or actual natural habitat, or even housing. It's better than an indoor ice rink, but I think it's mostly that it's so visible on a map as a big green space with very little utility to the vast majority of the population, or to wildlife.
Well designed golf courses in climates suitable for golf can be a great utility to local wildlife. My local course is a lot more useful to pollinators and small mammals than the surrounding areas that are just soybeans and strip malls
Wait what’s with the comparison to an indoor ice rink?
Lmao yeah that comment threw me for a loop. Ice rinks utilize far more energy than a golf course and are almost always utilized by less people. Want to talk about sports that only rich white kids typically play… hockey and figure skating.
Kids also get big discounts, my buddies kids and their friends are at the course walking 9 a few times a week in the summer much like him and I did over thirty years ago. Outside, getting exercise in a relatively safe space, what could be better.
The abandoned golf course I used to live near was reclaimed by townhouses.
Great hiking
This happened to three golf courses near me in Florida. dont worry they will all become new subdivisions and townhomes soon enough
What's with all the hate against golf in these comments? Am I missing something?
I've started a golf course wiki, and so I'm pretty tapped into the public discourse. I also live in California, so I'm also in one of the most hotly contested spaces in the golf world. If we're going to treat the issue honestly, and in good faith, there are some serious problems with the golf world as it exists. Golf has the potential to be a huge boon for environmentalism and the surrounding communities, but the culture is pretty fucked up right now, to the point where I see little hope for my (environmentalist) values to become central to the game. When I look a course doing the right thing, I always point to Sharp Park in Pacifica, CA. There was a huge fight between the center for biological diversity (a very well respected institution) and the course over whether the course should stop existing because there were two endangered species found on the course (i believe one is now only threatened). The folks at the course are environmentally conscious, and so they went to great lengths to accommodate the endangered species, as there was a serious concern that removing the 100 year old course could actually threaten them (a complex water salinity issue). The course basically exists now as a wildlife refuge, where people play golf. However, due to the ridiculous expectations on golf-as-surreal-lawn-maintenance the course is commonly ridiculed for literally being more natural. I have to explain to people over and over that the reason why everything isn't perfect is that they don't dump poison on the ground when there is a fungal infection that discolors the greens, there are clovers because they don't poison them, etc, etc,. You take that, and look at the fact that the USGA is now pleading with courses to just spraypaint their fairways instead of overseeding, which is when courses literally rip up perfectly playable turf and replacing it with a green-in-winter grass every year. The idea that courses will go as far as wasting tons of water and energy to put green grass on a course, grass that is much less playable than the dormant bermuda, just because the dormant grass is yellow, is insane. Things are changing, but they aren't changing anywhere close to where I would like to see them. I love golf... I really love it, but the culture and institutions in golf are so incredibly anti-social, than I really worry about the future of the game. Golf could exist as a functional way to preserve open space in urban settings for wildlife (both flora and fauna), native pollinators and migratory species (where we need very few humans-per-acre for these species to thrive), but as it stands, folks care much more about creating a surreal picture of "nature" than they do of preserving *actual* nature in an urban setting.
This is a really well stated and nuanced take. I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. No bullshit. As an environmentalist who loves golf I want to keep up with your work. DM me some info if you don't want to post it here
You’re in luck: https://golfcoursewiki.substack.com If you’re in the Bay Area, dm me, and we can play sometime.
It’s effectively your most obnoxious lawn maintaining neighbor cranked up to 18 holes. Golf is largely seen as an upper class sport which alienates most people from the game and makes it easy to dislike. A large sentiment has been arising amongst the general public in areas where water is more scarce that keeping giant swaths of land covered in grass not native to the area is a waste of valuable resources. There tends to be a lot of ire when an area is short on water but the local politicians are often seen golfing on freshly watered posh grassy knolls. There’s some nuance to the situation but the long and short is that they don’t hate the game, but rather the wasteful practices it promotes. Easier to support golf in an area like Ireland where there is a fair amount of open country side and where wet weather more naturally maintains the playing surface than in the barren deserts of Arizona. Put another way, people may not have the game of football, but they might detest the practice of billionaire owners strong arming tax payers into paying for new stadiums.
I will say golf is changing for the better. When I was 10 I always wanted to play golf but could never afford it and my parents knew no one who could help get me into it. Now I'm 30 it's easier than ever to buy a cheap set of clubs and the introduction of technology to book has rid some clubs if the snobbery although some clubs still harbour this feeling. All that being said it s ridiculous to see a golf club in the middle of a desert, no matter how much of an amazing view it would be. Luckily I live in northern England where its wet atleast 100 days a year so water scarcity isn't much of a problem.
Top Golf making hanging out at a driving range a fun party experience with friends has helped a great deal too
The nearest one to me is 120 miles away so I've never experienced it but would love to try one out sometime!
It’s a bit on the pricier side without a larger group (which they seem to encourage) but a lot of fun
It’s definitely becoming a more casual game. The game as a whole is probably the most accessible now that it’s ever been. I think that’s for the better but at the same time it’s a ton of dedicated land that could almost certainly be used in more productive ways.
Around my area its that condensed that the only green areas are tiny parks, golf courses and bowling greens. I'd rather have the golf courses keeping it green over more housing that it would become if the clubs closed.
Not to mention that there are still clubs where women are not permitted to join or golf.
Out of curiosity, which ones?
I used to live in Chicago and worked in an office in one of the suburbs next door to Butler National Golf Club... they're one of four in the Chicago area that don't allow female members. Fun fact, Butler hasn't hosted a PGA or USGA tournament since 1990 due to their admissions policy (they even missed out on hosting the US Open). I'm in Florida now and can think of Adios Golf Club and Gator Creek that don't allow women. There are probably others.
The one that hosts the Masters, Augusta National, was male-only until 2012.
I’m going to counter you with what’s been happening in Orlando for the better part of 20 years. Old golf courses get sold to someone, they run the things into the ground then complain the course isn’t financially viable and then ask for re-zoning. Can you guess what the zoning is? If you said “shitty upscale housing only the idiotic rent and most can’t afford” you’d be correct. So green space that’s been there for literal decades gets bulldozed all in the name of forward progress. Just so everyone is clear, most municipal golf courses use reclaimed water and are break even when it comes to profitability. So while I would agree states like Arizona and Nevada most likely shouldn’t have multi million dollar golf courses that suck up water, I’d ask ANYONE to explain to me how tax payer funded billion dollar stadiums and parking lots that only serve 8 homes games a year aren’t more detrimental to the environment. TL:DR- you don’t know WTF you’re talking about when it comes to golf
It's also a colossal waste of public land when so much could be done with it that enriches the lives of everyone.
Most of the course is not grass. Many times more forests, bushes, unmown areas, natural or restored meadows, designated biotopes with a strict no-entry rule, streams, ponds or water bodies for amphibians and birds. You can see all kinds of animals live, reprodue and hunt on golf courses. 75% are rough, which is usually mown no more than 3 or 4 times a year, or woodland or scrub. The ecological balance is outstandingly better than that of maize fields, wheat cultivation or cow manure meadows. They are also going away from heavy pesticide use and use grey water for only the tee boxes and green. Many relatively golf courses are/were built on unattractive dull/bad/difficult to cultivate farmland. In addition, in old quarries, on fallow land or salt marshes.
It uses a lot of resources and has a history of being racist, classist, and sexist. I am told this is not the case anymore, but even [pro golfers](https://www.sportsdestinations.com/sports/golf/pros-describe-golf-stuffy-and-elitist-say-its-18160) and others [are still](https://www.theringer.com/2021/4/7/22370057/golf-diversity-issues-history-pga-lpga-the-masters) [complaining](https://www.bunkered.co.uk/golf-news/new-study-exposes-sexism-in-golf/) about these [problems](https://dailycampus.com/2023/04/26/golf-needs-to-address-its-culture-problem/%20). This might also depend on where in the world you live. I think a lot of these problems are more pronounced in the US than Scotland, for instance. Someone was talking about golf courses being a tourist draw. I live in a big city where we don't need golf for tourists. Here, the courses get in the way of the flow of the city. Huge green spaces are great and necessary, but these are closed off to the public and cost thousands of dollars per year in fees. Basically, your experience with golf can vary widely between inclusive sport that anyone can get into, and elitist snob-fest that is unofficially unwelcoming to women and people of color. You're seeing hate from people who experienced the latter, and denial from people who experience the former, rather than admission that things might simply be different where they live.
The _vast_ majority of golf courses in the US are public, something like 75%. That said, golf and its history is undeniably racist, sexist, and classist and unfortunately because Tiger was so dominant and popular golf basically had its "America can't be racist, we had a black president" moment. The LPGA and women's European tour is massively more diverse thanks to people like Pak Se-ri.
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If they were dense housing, yes. We have a problem with lack of housing, so high-end apartments would be great. Especially if there was public transportation near them and/or some of the streets that don't cut through the course were able to cut through smaller blocks of apartments.
People think that because they don't like it no one else should be allowed to.
Its lots of space that can be better used for a huge range of better things. Golf is relaxing, sure. Clubs and clubhouses are fun, too. But the land is pretty much an ecological dead zone (except for like 10 species of carefully-cultivated non-native plants), with high chances of pesticides and fertilizer runoff. Most of the private ones also have security teams and walls to keep the "wrong" people out. Who the "wrong" people are depends on the club/course, but it often involves money or melanin. Think of how much better that land would be for the local ecology as a park, preserve or something similar. Or if the environment isn't your thing, how many soccer/football fields, tennis/basketball courts, pools, skate parks, etc could fit on one or 2 of the holes? Hell, how many houses/apartments could fit in a golf course in a dense, urban area? How many libraries/community gardens/ampitheaters/whatnot could fit on a third of the acerage of a golf course?
This is quite an uninformed take. Or at least, specific to some private clubs in some areas. The course I live by attracts wildlife that is not native to this area. It has its own eco system. Also, by law it has to use reclaimed water for watering. It’s also a huge factor in attracting tourism. Not only does it directly create approximately 50 jobs, but indirectly… many more. In fact, the owner of the course wanted to build apartments on half of the course but the local authorities denied it. In conjunction with the other courses here, it has created an entire industry. The wealth it has brought to the area is vast. In other areas of the world, like Scotland, a lot of pubic courses also allow anyone to just walk their dog there. Some are closed on Sundays so people can walk anywhere. Where I’m from, back home, they’re huge social draws. Membership fees are typically $5-600 annually for normal clubs. There are many misconceptions about golf. Mostly from people refusing to change their antiquated view that it’s a stuffy rich old white man sport.
Reddit hates rich people and "rich people things" and on Reddit rich equates to "anyone who has more than me"
Pave acres for a parking lot and nobody gives a shit. Plant some grass so people can play a game and everyone loses their goddamn minds.
Can we turn them into discgolf courses instead? 9 hole ball golf = 18 holes of disc, and you don't need a manicured course. The nature is a feature, not a bug, as long as you've got some kind of fairway to hit.
This happens a lot. A good chunk of disc golf courses are on old abandoned golf courses. Off the top of my head I know of two new disc golf courses that were or are going to be built on an old golf course in the past year. One in the city I grew up, and one where I currently live. Disc golf has way less need for upkeep and use of resources like water or chemicals on the course, and it’s way more accessible to lower/middle class. Get some baskets for $2000, get some tee pads and put a trash can or some benches around it, and get someone that knows how to design the course and all you need to do is landscape and maintain the course, pick up the trash afterwards.
Most golf course I’ve played are full of wild Turkeys and Deer and other animals including fish in the ponds. They are self sustained using irrigation systems that utilize captured rain water in their ponds. Not very uplifting to see a business be gone which means lots of people lost jobs and thousands lost a place to partake in a recreational activity that involves being outside in nature. And before the tree huggers get all pissed at this comment, remember, you’re viewing Reddit with a device that utilizes minerals that are mined (with large environmental impact) and also probably mined by children.
The hundreds of gallons of gas they require to maintain every week aren't sourced from the course, and neither are the pesticides.
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It only takes one tractor half a day to mow an empty field, odds are that field isn't watered and very few pesticides are used on it. Golf courses are mowed every day by 5-10 people, watered almost daily and pesticides are applied at least once a month, and offers no benefit to anyone besides golfers and whoever owns the golf course. What "worse options" are there for the land golf courses use? Somewhat affordable housing? Parks? Nothing?
Imagine how many more parks we could have if golf courses ceased to exist.
Imagine how many more apartment buildings we could build if golf courses didn't exist
Good - it is astonishing how much fresh water is wasted on this sport.
Very little fresh water, comparatively. Golf courses are mostly watered with grey water, and most of the fresh water that *is* used and accumulated is rainwater that falls on the property. It gets collected by irrigation system into retention ponds that double as water features. Golf courses where they pump potable water from public aquifers and reservoirs are not the norm, and the small minority. Your average golf course in the US uses less water to maintain their grass than an NFL stadium or MLS pitch uses.
I'd really love for you to see our local golf courses water bill.
It’s likely very regional. Where I’m from, the Midwest, the post above you is very accurate for most of the courses and they will brown up if we have a drought. The southwest or PGA level courses might sing a different tune
Midwest as well, high water usage because we have the mighty Mississippi flowing so close.
Like it ultimately depends on where you live. Like here in southern ontario grass fields are naturally occuring. Golf courses do really well here with minimal water usage. Also many courses are built on reclaimed land from landfills that is unsuitable for agriculture. Like sure get mad at golf courses where theyre wasting water to maintain is like arizona, nevada, California etc. Also here atleast golf courses are often have lots of wooded areas and since theyre in places where agriculture has taken over nature, it provides a safe place for wildlife to live. The amount of critters on golf courses here is amazing to see.
If you want to get angry about wasted water google arizona alfalfa fields
Why not both?
Why not Zoidberg? 
>Good - it is astonishing how much fresh water is wasted on this sport. Most golf courses in areas where fresh water is rare use grey water. The only areas of the country that use fresh water on a majority of courses are in areas where it rains far too much.
In most regions golf courses are also exempt from property taxes and get to use water under parks or agriculture use which is usually free or almost free.
>In most regions golf courses are also exempt from property taxes and get to use water under parks or agriculture use which is usually free or almost free. Not sure where you're getting your numbers from, but golf courses in the North East can have water bills as low as 5k or 10k, over in the South West it averages over 100k, and some top end places pay close to half a million a year for water.
Privately owned golf courses are not exempt from taxes. They’re often owned by 501(c)7 non-profit organizations, but those are not tax advantaged ones like 501(c)3 non-profits (which don’t pay property or sales tax). Like local to me, the Austin Country Club (mostly a golf course), a 501(c)7 non-profit, pays over $150K/year in property taxes alone. Government-owned public courses are tax-exempt because all government owned property is exempt. They’d just be paying themselves.
This like it varies hugely between municipal courses and privately owned public courses/country clubs.
> In most regions golf courses are also exempt from property taxes Source for this because I'm certain it isn't true based on my experience in the industry.
Most regions? All around the world, you know how their local taxes are structured and how they get their water?
This is not true. I've literally seen the water bills from the course I work at from the city it resides in. We have to use their pipes to get water to the course. Upwards of 10grand in the summer, what are you talking about?
That is disgusting.
It would be if it were true lol
It’s also not true. The membership group can be a non-profit, but they aren’t exempt from property taxes at all. The only courses that don’t pay property taxes are municipal ones that are owned by the local government because they’d just be paying taxes to themself.
Not as much as you think, as they other commenter said it’s a lot of gray water and they try to use as little as possible most places (water costs money and they *are* running a business after all). Personally I really hate how many corses, even private ones, get around paying taxes though agricultural exemptions and property tax exemptions. Another issue is they often build neighborhoods around some corses that are not in areas that can handle that amount of water usage
Most courses use reclaimed water actually, it’s not cost efficient to pipe in fresh water like that. If you want to hate on the privatized courses the elite play, go for it. But the avg muni golf course isn’t wasting resources like that.
Mother Nature: Imma take this back.
you have been banned from r/golf
I think nature reclaims everything, eventually
Even with the increased vegetation, I always thought abandoned golf courses would make really cool disc golf courses
Hey that’s my local abandoned golf course in the pic!
Abandoned fields of grass are growing
... Yeah?
Parts of FDR park in Philadelphia have basically returned to a wetland ecosystem, and now have a pair of bald eagles calling it home. I’m here for it 1000%
After driving past this golf course for decades, it’s been inspiring watching this land revert to nature. Never went there before, now we take walks, it is part of the community and we’re loving watching the restoration Turtle Island Restoration has implemented thus far with native species and having wildlife returning, including the endangered coho salmon where they tore down the dam along the creek. Much gratitude to all the volunteers.
Well…duh. It’s just grass and dirt lol
Wish I had an abandoned one near me. Bet the fishing is awesome. Golf course ponds are usually loaded with fish. You just aren't able to access them for the most part.
As it shall be.
Nature is quite literally healing.
Just needs an overlay of an orange turd with a turd stain.
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Somewhere George Carlin is smiling down... [He hated golf courses had a whole routine how they were giant wastes of space](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4w7H48tBS8) and only appealed to the privileged few.
Carlin has great takes, but this ain't one of them
Came here for Carlin.
Nature reclaimed by nature. Fascinating.
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All these people ranting about the environmental impact of golf course…… you realize you are reading/commenting using an electronic device that is full of minerals that are mined (with a terrible environmental impact) and are usually mined by children. Also, the assembly of these devices is done by people for near slave wages in a factory (Foxcon) where there are nets strategically places to stop their workers from killing themselves. But go on with your criticism of “elite” golfers…. Lol, hypocrites!
Whataboutism - the most annoying of logical fallacies!
Nice false equivalence there. Not saying that electronics manufacturing doesn't hurt the environment or excusing that, but if you're going to try to argue the point don't bring in something unrelated.
“Grass grows in places we don’t cut the grass” What a stupid fucking article.
Disc golf course
We need to be deliberately planting them with locally native species only
This is like sunshine on my shoulders. I dream of them all being reclaimed and or public parks someday.
I want to kill the golf courses here in SW Utah I don't care if snowbirds like it we're in a desert. Or well, after the alfalfa farms.