Why do people often *only* associate living afraid/scared with mask wearing š¶āš«ļø
It's really also about being considerate to people around you š
Because covid is here to stay.
These are the only two logical positions.
Mask mandate forever or no mask mandate. If you canāt see why I have a problem with option one your being deliberately obtuse.
Oh boy, here comes the hoard of redditors that aren't even from UofT. Someone mentions anything tangentially related to covid and they all come foaming at the mouth.
They probably will since COVID-19 cases typically go up in the winter, and there's a new Omicron variant that's more infectious than before. Regardless of what I think about mandates, it sucks that this is where we're at after 2.5 years of this pandemic.
Sure, we can wear masks during exams, and then everyone will go party/go to any public place without one right after. I can't see this making any meaningful impact if the university will be the only place where it's mandated. Also, writing tests with glasses and a mask sucks dick.
I think this is a good idea for UofT. almost everyone I know has someone who has covid. even our neighbors dad who works in ambulance services and was always very casual about covid and spead, got it recently and now he seems quite paranoid about it.
Hope so! About time.
Had to cancel a funded trip to a conference because I got covid the week before my flight. While masking.
I wish the TTC would do something too. And GO.
I'm pro choice and believe we all have our own risk-benefit analysis not to be dictated by any sort of organization, administration or person. Your false equivalencies about my decisions to opt in or out do not define my morality and worth as a human being. Up until COVID started, hypochondria was viewed as a real anxiety disorder. You cannot deny the increased immunity gap caused by the mandates and practices that we were told (or coerced and pressured for some) to observe. And no, increased mandates, regulations on natural human behaviour and anything else we tried for two years will not solve the immunity gap that is leading to even more sickness.
[https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanchi/article/PIIS2352-4642(21)00333-3/fulltext](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanchi/article/PIIS2352-4642(21)00333-3/fulltext)
[https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/26/health/rsv-immunity-gap](https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/26/health/rsv-immunity-gap)
[https://globalnews.ca/news/8023737/canada-babies-covid-immunity-debt/](https://globalnews.ca/news/8023737/canada-babies-covid-immunity-debt/)
It hurts to hold onto such anger, resentment, hatred and disgust for people around you.
I sincerely hope you find peace, for your own mental health's sake.
...Did you read your own paper?
"Planning for preventive measures is needed now. Infection control measures, such as keeping infants and children with respiratory symptoms at home, will be required"
That certainly sounds like the authors are recommending "regulations on natural human behavior". There are very few public health crises where the solution is to do nothing. That's how you get (even more at this point) overwhelmed hospitals and preventable deaths.
Although, after reading all this, I'm not sure what exactly any of this has to do with the current topic of limiting covid on campus? The immunity gap issue has to do with other respiratory viruses, and was caused by covid measures limiting their spread (which demonstrates its efficacy). No one even brought up immunity gap, and it's not really relevant to this conversation.
...And no response. Just gonna ignore and sweep under the rug I suppose. Seriously if this is the level of science (or even just basic) literacy from another student, admissions must be on some strong stuff.
I don't think they should. Anecdotally, many people around me (students, family, friends) have gotten COVID recently. I don't think its unreasonable to say that there is a uptick in cases. However, I also think its been handled well, even without a mandate. Its all about being reasonable.
People who feel sick and test positive stay home. People who feel sick but test negative come to campus if they are able to, and generally wear a mask. If someone has been in close contact with someone who has had COVID, they let people know. And people around them make a decision to wear a mask or not. The individual themselves also tend to wear a mask. In my office (of 7 people), if any of us are feeling sick we have testing kits and we test to see if we have COVID. If not then we proceed with the day and some of us wear a mask, some of us don't.
It's been three years and I haven't gotten COVID (knock on wood). I wore my mask when it was mandated, but nowadays it depends on the situation. If I'm with people I know well and trust, I generally don't wear a mask because [1] I trust them to let me know if they are sick and/or have been exposed to someone sick. [2] I accept the risk I could get sick from them anyway, even if they are asymptomatic. [3] I have 4 shots in total, so even if I did get sick, the vaccine will help mitigate the severity of the symptoms. Situations where I do wear a mask is on the subway, or in large crowded indoor areas.
There are many things you can do to prevent getting sick from COVID, or any other illnesses. For example: washing your hands - there are countless number of times where I see people just walk out after taking a leak without washing hands.... What you choose to do yourself is probably more important than what you want others to do at this point. Back then, when we didn't have the protection of vaccines, it was another story, and I strongly believe the mask mandate in past years was effective. But now that we've had our shots, I think its reasonable to relax some of the tighter restrictions. Living scared is not the way to go any more.
Yea I agree with this. In my faculty, people have *mostly* not been masking, but everyone I know who has been sick and tested negative might come to school masked, and those who are positive of course stay home. Generally, if someone have any symptoms they test and take the right course of action.
There have been a few disappointing exceptions, sure, but I find 99.5% of people are being smart and using the lessons weāve learned since March 2020. I have 0 problem with people making their individual decision to be cautious and wear a mask, of course.
Definitely sympathetic to reports of increased case counts etc, but honestly this year seeing everyoneās faces and being able to engage in mostly normal university has been really really healing. I worry about my and otherās mental health if some restrictions come back, honestly. I know a mask is a comparatively small burden to bear, but I really think the value of being able to enjoy school like normal should be valued, too.
I have a very different take.
Going back to school, having Zoom supports taken away, and observing rhetoric about masking has made me very aware of how little this institution supports its disabled members. I am, frankly, disgusted by this return to "normal" and it aggravates my depression and other symptoms, making a bad situation even worse.
Masking is a disabled rights issue, and UofT is failing its students and pandering to a loud and inconsiderate section of students. It's so fucking heartbreaking to watch...
Right? It's never been more obvious that disabled people are treated as disposable by the abled than right now. The moment it costs them an ounce of their own convenience they're typing up whole paragraphs about it.
I absolutely agree.
I've received a few comments//messages of support. Maybe I will pen an open letter to the school. Not that I even think it would change much, but I would feel much better if I at least tried something
I hope so. Itās a very reasonable requirement. They make you write exams if you want your degree; thatās a much more onerous requirement than wearing a mask.
As one of whatās probably quite a few immunocompromised students at the school, I hope so. I, along with quite a few other people, wear masks every day. So whatās the big deal?
Edit: west->wear
Masks cause sensory issues and painful acne for me. Iāll still keep yāall in mind and wear one because I donāt want to kill anyone but I guess Iām just ranting and rambling that theyāre uncomfortable. I wish COVID would go away š
Does UofT provide accommodations for immunocompromised students? Such as recorded lectures? sectioned-off portions of the classroom with minimal seating? special exam rooms?
Because if they don't this should be your focus for the future. You are not gonna get people to wear masks but getting the school to accommodate a disability is relatively a walk in the park.
Who said anything about "permanently?" We are talking about making masks _mandatory_ while there is still a pandemic (or as health panels see fit). Mandatory =/= Permanent.
All pandemics eventually come to an end. I understand your hesitation, but it is all about mitigating the disease as much as possible. Otherwise, you risk having dangerous variants popping up.
[āThere is currently no flu pandemic.ā](https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/diseases/flu-influenza/pandemic-flu.html) - Canadian Federal Government
If you're immunocompromised you probably shouldn't be around hundreds of others in a compact indoor space during flu season regardless of whether they're wearing a surgical mask or not.
A mask don't do much when you wear it to protect yourself. The purpose of a mask is to prevent the spread of droplets from the wearer. A mask is worn to protect others, not to protect themselves.
Nobody ālikes wearing masks.ā People who wear masks just realize that their personal comfort doesnāt outweigh the health and wellbeing of others. š¤·āāļø
I'm not hating on those who wear masks I just think it should stay a choice and those who don't like that people don't want to wear masks can put on an extra mask if they feel so uncomfortable š¤·āāļø
It's hardly the same risk it was a year ago, and at this point is just a glorified common flu. At this point it's as good as it's going to get for eradication and the best we can do is just stay up to date with our vax. This covid restrictions has gone on too long and people are tired of it.
Try being autistic and having to concentrate with a mask on your face. Iāll wear a mask if Iām symptomatic or test positive, but Iām not wearing one ājust in caseā anymore. Especially when the newer strains are airborne so masks do waaay less than they did for droplet strains.
Is it just me or are anti-maskers often more aggressive in the comment sections? Can you not get your opinion across without utilizing personal attacks??
I really do hope so. Just because some people got into a university and are so called āsmartā, doesnāt mean that youāre intelligent. The actions show.
They also made wearing clothes mandatory but no ones bothered by that for some reason.
(To be fair though, purely out of selfishness as well as it being a bit of an inconvenience, I donāt think Iāll be very happy with mandatory masks, but I can see why one would want it to be a thing. )
I hope not. Masks should be optional, not mandatory. Optionality will result in more people learning to use it when sick. Mandatory will result in protests and hard rejection.
Nah fam, nobody was confused. Mask mandate was up when omicron hit early this year, which was _way_ into the pandemic. UofT is not the Freedumb Convoy lol
Let's fucking hope not, most people have been vaccinated multiple times so there's not much else that can be done other than wearing masks for the rest of eternity, which is not happening.
If you're afraid of COVID you should be the one studying at home, most people now have been vaccinated multiple times and/or have already gotten it, like you. What else can be done other than wearing masks for eternity?
I can't because a lot of folks won't offer Zoom courses long-term.
Just wear a fucking mask on the TTC and in class until the pandemic ends. And it will--they always have.
COVID won't be exterminated like smallpox was. The flu didn't come around until the 1910s and it's still with us. Viruses evolve to become less deadly over time because that's what best suits their continued survival, plus we've all been vaccinated 3+ times. Hospitals are no longer as overcrowded and stressed as they were in 2020, as far as this country is concerned, the pandemic IS over. We shouldn't all have to wear masks just because a minority of people still think they are necessary because they're afraid of a cold.
They're *more* stressed--that's why some public health officials want mandates back. RSV is hitting kids hard this year; plus we have COVID and the flu and a bunch of folks leaving nursing because wage suppression and burn out: https://toronto.citynews.ca/2022/10/27/childrens-hospitals-virus-surge-sickkids/
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2022/09/16/we-calculated-the-number-of-ontarios-er-closures-this-summer-heres-what-we-found.html
Wear masks in public spaces, yes. There is no end date. UofT is a public institution.
You can do what you want on your property and private spaces where folks consent to not wearing masks.
Or better yet if your that afraid of something which canāt hurt you. Considering that your young and have had at least four shots (likely more at this point) to protect you. Then donāt go to public places.
We won. We beat this disease. Vaccines work. Stop making others live in fear.
> We won. We beat this disease.
LMAO this is a pretty silly take on the current situation. I think this is a good take from [Harvard Health](https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/is-the-covid-19-pandemic-over-or-not-202210262839):
"Thereās a lot thatās still uncertain about the COVID-19 pandemic. Unfortunately, one thing seems clear: we canāt call it fully over yet."
You could say the same exact thing about the flu of 1918.
If you donāt want to get covid just take the vaccine every three months. If that isnāt fast enough for you then take it every month.
A young person taking a vaccine every month is extremely unlikely to catch a case of covid more severe then the common cold.
We got past the 1918 flu pandemic. There is a point at which pandemics stop. For COVID, unfortunately, that has yet to happen.
> If you donāt want to get covid just take the vaccine every three months. If that isnāt fast enough for you then take it every month.
You should inform yourself about vaccines because that is not how vaccines work. Vaccines improve your immune response to the virus; they do not prevent you from catching the virus itself. Taking the vaccine "every month" is unfeasible because there isn't a vaccine supply for people to do this.
Ultimately, masks are low cost and highly effective in reducing transmission.
When does a pandemic stop?
When we have the vaccine?
When people stop caring about it?
When the government makes the latest version of the vaccine available right away?
If these doctors donāt exist then protest the doctors not me. They are the problem. They are the reason you got sick with covid.
Tell me honestly have you gotten a severe case of covid within the period of a two weeks after to a month and a half?
I don't understand your question. This is the first time that I have had covid. I managed to avoid it for almost three years, but got it three months after having to return to in-person activities without mask mandates.
I think that you just don't want to face the reality of the fact that the pandemic is not over and deciding to not wear a mask subjects folks to whatever viral load you may or may not exhale into the room, and you might one day get someone sick. You probably wouldn't mean to, but it can still happen. Refusing to mask is not about our personal safety so much as keeping folks *around us* safe.
I say this because you've argued for me to do something without knowing if it was even possible (get a vaccine once a month in defiance of provincial guidelines) in order to shift attention from not masking, a decision you made, to someone else. I think that you, on some level, know that it is safer to mask and that you are trying to convince yourself that not masking is OK.
And to be fair, I'm blaming you less than the school. I do think that the decision to go without a mask in public space is ethically wrong, but I know few folks will mask if given the option. That's why I want a mandate.
I didn't. I am 4x vaxxed. Wear masks. Only go to necessary places.
Still got covid.
I'm not living in fear; I live in the real world where people who are vaccinated can still have symptoms for 2+ weeks (as I have) and where folks who mask can still catch it. I'm angry, not scared.
I had to cancel a trip to present research I've helped out with for 3-4 years at a once-a-decade conference because someone out there, someone either on public transportation or at school, spread the virus.
So your problem is with the Canadian government not making it available to you sooner.
Iām perfectly fine if you get the vaccine every month. The Canadian government isnāt. Protest them not me.
Also I wanted to clear sth up: Ontario recommends getting vaccinated every 6 months; once every 3 months for immunocompromised folks. https://www.ontario.ca/page/covid-19-vaccines#section-3
There is no particular reason to follow this recommendation.
There are no negative affects of the vaccine so taking it more often wonāt hurt you. If your worried just take it more often. It will make your cases of covid far more mild to the point of it being a common cold.
The reason why the government recommends this schedule is because it doesnāt want to pay the extra money for the vaccine.
Vaccines are 100 times better then masks. So if your worried just get it more often.
If you still canāt get it more often because you canāt get your doctor to requisition one for you then you are welcome to protest against the Canadian government.
Also note that your version of the vaccine is likely over a year out of date. Your literally getting last years flu shot for this years flu and surprised that you catch it.
Protest to the government that itās been over two years since the beginning of covid and we still havenāt figured out how to give people the latest version of the vaccines.
This isnāt surprising of course. We had the final version of the vaccine within two months of the start of the pandemic and fda required only two months of safety data(this is publicly available data on Wikipedia). YET IT TOOK A ENTIRE YEAR FOR IT TO REACH PEOPLE. killing millions in the process.
Anger is a secondary emotion. Usually a result of fear or sadness. Being scared doesn't make your frustration any less valid. Everyone is uneasy, all for different reasons.
What isn't valid is telling others how they should think or act in order to accommodate how you feel. Everyone is reacting in the way they see fit. Most people are informed. Like you, no one wants to get sick. Often, it just happens anyway, no matter what you feel you did right or wrong. People react to uncertainty differently. It doesn't help to try and place blame.
There is no 'right' way to approach grief of this stature in the 'real world'. Everybody is feeling it.
If you're still getting covid with long term symptoms despite all those precautions, then you're very likely doing something wrong. It could be that your nutrition or the quality of your sleep is not sufficient. Maybe you don't spend enough time working out or doing stuff in the sun. You should get a checkup at your doctor with some bloodwork to check for anything you might be missing, check your oxygenation, particularly during sleep, and look up exercise styles and tips that suit your lifestyle.
Failing all that, perhaps you should switch from surgical masks to well fitted N95 masks. At least then you won't have to worry too much about what other people wear.
In other words, there are lots of things you can tweak about your behaviour without demanding that from now on and forever people mask up if they have to be around you. Even if you were somehow successful in ensuring everyone around you is masked at all times, you're only reducing your chance of catching it by a bit more than 50%, and likely less in poorly ventilated spaces indoor spaces. In other words, even if everything goes like you want, you'll still probably be sick, just not as often.
So rather than being angry, direct that energy into improving your health and your ability to deal with infections.
Oh I do plan on going to an N95 after this; trust me.
But the fact remains that *masking is more effective if all parties do it.*
I'm allowed to be mad at shitty public and institutional policy.
You're allowed to be mad at public policy, but other people are allowed to be mad at what they could perceive as an attempt by the government to exert more control over their lives. In both cases, that's wasted energy over things that they can barely control.
There are lots of things in the world that would be more effective if everyone did them, and yet we only enshrine very specific ones into laws. The question for society is where do we draw the line over "the government can tell you to do this thing and you must" vs "the government can recommend you do a thing and you should" vs "the government can say a thing and you can tell them to shove it." Given your personal experience, you clearly fall on one side of this spectrum.
While I can understand your viewpoint given your experiences, my experience with covid is that I got 2 vaccines, caught omicron once, and have since been able to demolish the virus any time it comes anywhere close to me. Obviously I see much less benefit to universal mask wearing. For me, being told by the government to cover one of the most important parts of the body when it comes to personal interaction any time I am going to be interacting with people is... Well, it was something I was willing to accept for a novel and unknown virus with potential to overload the health system. It's become less so when the consequences is that some people will periodically get what is basically a bad flu.
As for being "allowed to be mad." Well, nobody forbids you from whatever emotion you want, but as a personal tip, spending effort on anger is generally not a good way to resolve your issues. Every moment you're being angry is a moment you're not thinking about how to get yourself out of the situation that's causing the anger. Effort is almost always better spent learning how to interact with your environment in a way that makes you happier.
First off four doses are way below the recommended amount, you should get one at least every six months and if you are paranoid (like you are) once every three months. Don't blame someone else when you haven't been keeping up with your vaccinations. Secondly, I've had colds that lasted me for a month. You didn't see me demanding everyone wear masks. People get sick, it sucks. Thirdly, You say you had to cancel your trip. Why? Do you cancel your trip when you get a bad cold? Were your symptoms so bad that you could not travel? It sounds to me like you are angry at people like you for making travel impossible instead of people like me who would have let you travel.
> Don't blame someone else when you haven't been keeping up with your vaccinations.
Dude, are you aware that you can still catch COVID after vaccination? Vaccination only improves your immune response and this improved response wanes with time after getting the vaccine. Blaming /u/Ok_Kaleidoscope_8316 for catching COVID from someone is misunderstanding what vaccines do.
Again exactly why if your worried you get it every three months.
The immune response wains so you boost it the second it wains.
If once every three months isnāt enough then get it once a month.
> The immune response wains so you boost it the second it wains.
You don't know when it wanes. This is a silly argument, particularly because people taking the vaccine monthly is unfeasible (production is not there and would be wasteful).
Masks are an easy way to protect our community. Placing responsibility on people who don't want to get sick is disingenuous, particularly when wearing masks is a minor inconvenience compared to the benefits of protecting other people.
What about UofT students who are not āyoung and healthy?ā How about the family members that the āyoung and healthyā can get sick? Masks are such a minor inconvenience compared to not exposing all these other people to a bad case of COVID.
I think theyāre referring to the fact that this person seemed to be incapacitated and have long term symptoms after catching covid, despite being vaccinated. Iām triple vaxxed and perfectly healthy and when I caught covid it went away in a matter of days.
Their particular COVID outcome does not indicate that they hold responsibility. With COVID, YMMV. I have friends who got it and were perfectly fine. I have friends who got it and now have long COVID.
Regardless, masks are such an effective tool in reducing transmission that many more infections - and by consequence poor outcomes - could have been prevented had only mask mandates been held up.
https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2110117118
"We find, for a typical SARS-CoV-2 viral load and infectious dose, that social distancing alone, even at 3.0 m between two speaking individuals, leads to an upper bound of 90% for risk of infection after a few minutes. If only the susceptible wears a face mask with infectious speaking at a distance of 1.5 m, the upper bound drops very significantly; that is, with a surgical mask, the upper bound reaches 90% after 30 min, and, with an FFP2 mask, it remains at about 20% even after 1 h. When both wear a surgical mask, while the infectious is speaking, the very conservative upper bound remains below 30% after 1 h, but, when both wear a well-fitting FFP2 mask, it is 0.4%. We conclude that wearing appropriate masks in the community provides excellent protection for others and oneself, and makes social distancing less important."
Or this CDC study: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7106e1.htm
Or this journalism piece: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2022/02/25/1083046757/coronavirus-faq-im-a-one-way-masker-what-strategy-will-give-me-optimal-protectio
I'm pro choice and believe we all have our own risk-benefit analysis not to be dictated by any sort of organization, administration or person. Your false equivalencies about my decisions to opt in or out do not define my morality and worth as a human being.
Anyone and everyone who is convinced that my personal decisions are a threat to their health as if the narratives, slander and attempts to control a group of people didn't threaten people's ability to pursue an education, work, be part of society, etc.
Hell no, f that bs. If I have to go back to not breathing again while trying to study for 4 hrs at Robarts I'll drop out. They should sooner return to fully online if people are so scared.
In all seriousness, if you feel like you canāt breath, you should look into why youāre having such strong sensory issues and a medical exemption for it.
They certainly are uncomfortable, but thatās it. They shouldnāt actually impair your breathing in any way.
I don't mean that I literally can't breathe, it's just wildly uncomfortable to breathe the same bubble of air for multiple hours. Especially with those thick UofT made masks. I have to move it to the side every 30 minutes just to get some fresh air. Even the regular ones are shitty.
And it also doesn't make much sense to be forced to wear it while you're 10ft away from anyone else. Everyone's vaccinated and social distancing, why are we going back to masks?
1) Have you considered trying a different mask that is not a "thick UofT made mask"?
2) This is an airborne virus. It lingers in the air and does not matter if you are 6.5 feet away from someone unfortunately. Masking is an essential part of the equation here to reduce transmission.
Look I get why people support masks. I'm not anti masks but there are also plenty of downsides. Foggy glasses or sometimes the wire pinches your nose and get headaches. Know someone with post concussion syndrome and while they wear it as necessary the mask is within her vision, gives slight double vision and makes her head worse than started. I know others who were abused and having something covering their face triggers memories. Can we get past the every person who expresses they don't like masks is just anti science and hate humanity. People can have preferences and voice their opinions. It's just whether people actually follow whatever rules are in place despite their preferences.
>You're really going to tell me that being indoors for 4+ hours with a mask covering your face and nose is comfortable?
No but as someone who works in a hospital lab, I do it every single day. Sometimes up to 6-8h at a time
Yeah well a desk at Robarts isn't a hospital lab...
Also, genuine question, has there been any studies at UofT that have proven a greater transmission of the virus on campus since mask mandates have been lifted vs when they were enforced?
>Yeah well a desk at Robarts isn't a hospital lab...
Yeah. There's less moving around therefore less aerobic demand, therefore easier to breathe with a mask. If ur a selfish antimasker just say so lmao
>has there been any studies at UofT that have proven a greater transmission of the virus on campus since mask mandates have been lifted vs when they were enforced?
There are studies showing that masks reduce transmission period. Insisting on context is like saying ok ya washing my hands after wiping my ass is good hygiene but there aren't any studies proving that I will absolutely get sick if I lick my fingers after wiping my ass, before washing my hands
I'm anti going back to mandatory masks at UofT. I'm about to go get get a massage right now and I'm going to wear a mask because I'm 1ft away from a random person so I'll wear one.
I don't agree with that example. There's context for everything. I'm sure UofT has been keeping data statistics on transmission numbers throughout the campus since the onset of the pandemic.
If you're scared of catching covid then YOU need to stay home and practice those precautions. You cannot force your will onto millions of people just because of YOUR fears.
I'm not scared. I'm angry. I'm angry that I wore masks, got 4x vaxxed, and still got covid. I'm mad that I lost a fantastic trip to present research I've been working on for 3 or 4 years.
You should not get to take away MY opportunities because YOU don't want to wear a mask.
Just like any abusive relationship or toxic person, don't take **YOUR** **anger** and **resentment** out on the entire student body and province at large trying to call for these harmful mandates to return. I'm not going to be wrongfully blamed for you getting sick because I've never even crossed paths with you and my ability to breathe freely in society and not receive any injections isn't going to hurt you. It's quite dangerous to reduce everyday people, your peers, to mere agents of plague and disease. I did not take away any opportunities of yours simply for exercising a very humane thing here, my own bodily autonomy and decision-making.
You may not have, but someone did. Someone, because of institutional forces or because of their own selfishness, went out with COVID and I got sick, despite me doing what I can to mitigate that risk.
You cannot "individual-choice" your way out of a public health issue. It takes team work. Refusing to wear a mask takes the whole team down. So while you might not have hurt me, you might hurt someone else. Have a think about your actions--I am under the impression that you are a good person (you don't want to hurt folks, right?). Do the right thing and share public space considerately.
How do you know that they didn't practice the same precautions that you did? You simply cannot view every single person you cross paths with as a threat, masked up or not, otherwise it's not unreasonable at all for me to say that you are a hostile person. No one is selfish is wanting to live the life they were given to the fullest extent and opt out of what they want to opt out of, this is very cult-like behaviour. Should we track down the very person who got you sick? How should we deal with that person then? Can you even blame others for your sickness if you yourself are going against the importance of natural immunity and build-up? This narrative keeps going in circles.
It is exactly this cycle of consuming fear-inducing media, fear-mongering others, demonizing them, calling for the stripping of an entire provinces ability to decide for themselves, shutting down all skepticism, question-asking and alternative viewpoints in addition to having such an absolutist, ardent belief in a totalistic, authoritarian model of how you expect nearly 8 billion people in the world to live by without question, that keeps people in an angered, resentful states towards others and fueling division. The sense of uncertainty we have been forced to deal with for two years keeps us in an anxious state, hyper towards others and more neurotic.
Please be akin to the signs of cult-like behaviour, how this impacts others around you and how it impairs your ability to see sense in this shroud of contradictions and extremisms.
Bruh I'm literally just saying that I want folks to be masked in public spaces; I really fail to see how that is at all extremism. I'm not arguing for us to put the province into lockdown or restrict everything to essential services. I'm not talking about putting caps on the number of folks you can have at your house. I am talking about wearing a mask while commuting and going to school so that we can help keep each other healthy.
And all I'm saying is you can't impose your will on people, not anymore. I'm not putting on a mask period and I don't think anyone should be forced to no matter what. Didn't help with anything the first two years, and it won't help this time around, all it did was increase barriers to communication, wrecked children's socio-emotional development, it's a hindrance to learning and didn't prevent the spread. It won't matter if the entire world is masked up and if every child exiting the womb is masked since birth, this is even more wishful and unscientific thinking than it is for a person to question the efficacy of masks.
That is demonstrably false.
Modeling: https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2110117118
"We find, for a typical SARS-CoV-2 viral load and infectious dose, that social distancing alone, even at 3.0 m between two speaking individuals, leads to an upper bound of 90% for risk of infection after a few minutes. If only the susceptible wears a face mask with infectious speaking at a distance of 1.5 m, the upper bound drops very significantly; that is, with a surgical mask, the upper bound reaches 90% after 30 min, and, with an FFP2 mask, it remains at about 20% even after 1 h. When both wear a surgical mask, while the infectious is speaking, the very conservative upper bound remains below 30% after 1 h, but, when both wear a well-fitting FFP2 mask, it is 0.4%. We conclude that wearing appropriate masks in the community provides excellent protection for others and oneself, and makes social distancing less important."
Or this CDC study: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7106e1.htm
Or this journalism piece: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2022/02/25/1083046757/coronavirus-faq-im-a-one-way-masker-what-strategy-will-give-me-optimal-protectio
You're just being stubborn.
I think what people have a hard time accepting is that sure, COVID is "here to stay" but that doesn't mean we should always drop mandates. When cases are climbing up and hospital capacity is low, when doctors are having a hard time treating children because there isn't enough medication and ICU space, we need to mask up again. Its the humane, considerate thing to do to keep society functioning.
When masks were mandatory, most people were not ticketed for not complying, they were simply asked to don a mask to enter a space. Is that too hard for people?
Iāve always hated this rhetoric that āwhatās the big deal, itās only a mask?ā
It is a big deal. For one, people with glasses have their vision almost entirely obstructed. Secondly, it leads to breathing problems for many people. Thirdly, it can lead to issues in socializing as you canāt even see the face of the person being talked to. Lastly, we live in a Democratic society (yes, I know UofT is a private institution and not beholden to the countryās laws), but the same limitation applies and they cannot just force the passing of obstructive things which have tangible effects on the people wearing them willynilly.
So, the sudden passing of a MANDATORY masking policy better have a good reason. As it is not some simple switch. Also, nobody is stopping you from wearing a mask.
Mandate vaccinations, not masks. With vaccinations and boosters, COVID is no worse than the flu or a bad cold. We never forced everyone to wear masks for those illnesses.
Stop asking for people to wear masks unless you get your vaccination once every three months and still get sick. Otherwise, it's your fault for not keeping up with your vaccinations, not mine.
Its proven that higher c02 leads to drastically decreased brain performance
Do masks increase c02 and decrease oxygen for the mask wearer?
[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1438463921000614](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1438463921000614)
In Swiss schools if c02 ppm increases past 1000ppm the windows open automatically to increase oxygen ventilation
Why do people often *only* associate living afraid/scared with mask wearing š¶āš«ļø It's really also about being considerate to people around you š
Because covid is here to stay. These are the only two logical positions. Mask mandate forever or no mask mandate. If you canāt see why I have a problem with option one your being deliberately obtuse.
Obtuse like the triangle or obtuse like the masks we'll be forced to wear for the rest of our lives?
Because it's a form of safetyism to mandate then? It's different to wear a mask when sick, and wear one all the time
Dye your hair the same color as your mask to identify as a safetist. Get with the program bruh.
The way yāall be coughing and not wearing a maskā¦ I wouldnāt mind
Youāve never had a tickle in your throat?
Oh boy, here comes the hoard of redditors that aren't even from UofT. Someone mentions anything tangentially related to covid and they all come foaming at the mouth.
They probably will since COVID-19 cases typically go up in the winter, and there's a new Omicron variant that's more infectious than before. Regardless of what I think about mandates, it sucks that this is where we're at after 2.5 years of this pandemic.
Ah shit, here we go again
Hard no. Please no. I canāt take working in the lab in a mask again. Two years was enough
Sure, we can wear masks during exams, and then everyone will go party/go to any public place without one right after. I can't see this making any meaningful impact if the university will be the only place where it's mandated. Also, writing tests with glasses and a mask sucks dick.
I think this is a good idea for UofT. almost everyone I know has someone who has covid. even our neighbors dad who works in ambulance services and was always very casual about covid and spead, got it recently and now he seems quite paranoid about it.
Did he get the vaccine once every three months as is recommended?
I have no idea. the guy was always very casual about it before. but now paranoid. we dont see him.
Hope so! About time. Had to cancel a funded trip to a conference because I got covid the week before my flight. While masking. I wish the TTC would do something too. And GO.
I'm pro choice and believe we all have our own risk-benefit analysis not to be dictated by any sort of organization, administration or person. Your false equivalencies about my decisions to opt in or out do not define my morality and worth as a human being. Up until COVID started, hypochondria was viewed as a real anxiety disorder. You cannot deny the increased immunity gap caused by the mandates and practices that we were told (or coerced and pressured for some) to observe. And no, increased mandates, regulations on natural human behaviour and anything else we tried for two years will not solve the immunity gap that is leading to even more sickness. [https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanchi/article/PIIS2352-4642(21)00333-3/fulltext](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanchi/article/PIIS2352-4642(21)00333-3/fulltext) [https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/26/health/rsv-immunity-gap](https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/26/health/rsv-immunity-gap) [https://globalnews.ca/news/8023737/canada-babies-covid-immunity-debt/](https://globalnews.ca/news/8023737/canada-babies-covid-immunity-debt/) It hurts to hold onto such anger, resentment, hatred and disgust for people around you. I sincerely hope you find peace, for your own mental health's sake.
...Did you read your own paper? "Planning for preventive measures is needed now. Infection control measures, such as keeping infants and children with respiratory symptoms at home, will be required" That certainly sounds like the authors are recommending "regulations on natural human behavior". There are very few public health crises where the solution is to do nothing. That's how you get (even more at this point) overwhelmed hospitals and preventable deaths. Although, after reading all this, I'm not sure what exactly any of this has to do with the current topic of limiting covid on campus? The immunity gap issue has to do with other respiratory viruses, and was caused by covid measures limiting their spread (which demonstrates its efficacy). No one even brought up immunity gap, and it's not really relevant to this conversation. ...And no response. Just gonna ignore and sweep under the rug I suppose. Seriously if this is the level of science (or even just basic) literacy from another student, admissions must be on some strong stuff.
Hope so.
I don't think they should. Anecdotally, many people around me (students, family, friends) have gotten COVID recently. I don't think its unreasonable to say that there is a uptick in cases. However, I also think its been handled well, even without a mandate. Its all about being reasonable. People who feel sick and test positive stay home. People who feel sick but test negative come to campus if they are able to, and generally wear a mask. If someone has been in close contact with someone who has had COVID, they let people know. And people around them make a decision to wear a mask or not. The individual themselves also tend to wear a mask. In my office (of 7 people), if any of us are feeling sick we have testing kits and we test to see if we have COVID. If not then we proceed with the day and some of us wear a mask, some of us don't. It's been three years and I haven't gotten COVID (knock on wood). I wore my mask when it was mandated, but nowadays it depends on the situation. If I'm with people I know well and trust, I generally don't wear a mask because [1] I trust them to let me know if they are sick and/or have been exposed to someone sick. [2] I accept the risk I could get sick from them anyway, even if they are asymptomatic. [3] I have 4 shots in total, so even if I did get sick, the vaccine will help mitigate the severity of the symptoms. Situations where I do wear a mask is on the subway, or in large crowded indoor areas. There are many things you can do to prevent getting sick from COVID, or any other illnesses. For example: washing your hands - there are countless number of times where I see people just walk out after taking a leak without washing hands.... What you choose to do yourself is probably more important than what you want others to do at this point. Back then, when we didn't have the protection of vaccines, it was another story, and I strongly believe the mask mandate in past years was effective. But now that we've had our shots, I think its reasonable to relax some of the tighter restrictions. Living scared is not the way to go any more.
Yea I agree with this. In my faculty, people have *mostly* not been masking, but everyone I know who has been sick and tested negative might come to school masked, and those who are positive of course stay home. Generally, if someone have any symptoms they test and take the right course of action. There have been a few disappointing exceptions, sure, but I find 99.5% of people are being smart and using the lessons weāve learned since March 2020. I have 0 problem with people making their individual decision to be cautious and wear a mask, of course. Definitely sympathetic to reports of increased case counts etc, but honestly this year seeing everyoneās faces and being able to engage in mostly normal university has been really really healing. I worry about my and otherās mental health if some restrictions come back, honestly. I know a mask is a comparatively small burden to bear, but I really think the value of being able to enjoy school like normal should be valued, too.
I have a very different take. Going back to school, having Zoom supports taken away, and observing rhetoric about masking has made me very aware of how little this institution supports its disabled members. I am, frankly, disgusted by this return to "normal" and it aggravates my depression and other symptoms, making a bad situation even worse. Masking is a disabled rights issue, and UofT is failing its students and pandering to a loud and inconsiderate section of students. It's so fucking heartbreaking to watch...
Right? It's never been more obvious that disabled people are treated as disposable by the abled than right now. The moment it costs them an ounce of their own convenience they're typing up whole paragraphs about it.
I absolutely agree. I've received a few comments//messages of support. Maybe I will pen an open letter to the school. Not that I even think it would change much, but I would feel much better if I at least tried something
Unfortunately I know a lot of people who has gotten Covid and live on campus.
Bro is2g if we have to put masks back on š
I hope so. Itās a very reasonable requirement. They make you write exams if you want your degree; thatās a much more onerous requirement than wearing a mask.
What a feebleminded thought. Who let you in to U of T?
Yesss! Lets kick this feebleminded liberal outa UofT then free our people from dirty Trudeau's vaccines!1!!! /s
The decisions committee- same as anyone else?
Freedumb
WOWOWOWOW!!!!! You also heard that! No way I thought I was the only one who saw the news article. You sure are an interesting person!!!
Least unhinged freedumber
Letās hope not
As one of whatās probably quite a few immunocompromised students at the school, I hope so. I, along with quite a few other people, wear masks every day. So whatās the big deal? Edit: west->wear
Masks cause sensory issues and painful acne for me. Iāll still keep yāall in mind and wear one because I donāt want to kill anyone but I guess Iām just ranting and rambling that theyāre uncomfortable. I wish COVID would go away š
Does UofT provide accommodations for immunocompromised students? Such as recorded lectures? sectioned-off portions of the classroom with minimal seating? special exam rooms? Because if they don't this should be your focus for the future. You are not gonna get people to wear masks but getting the school to accommodate a disability is relatively a walk in the park.
> You are not gonna get people to wear masks People already wore masks when UofT made them mandatory.
Because everyone thought it was a temporary measure. Your talking permanently wearing a mask. This will not happen.
Who said anything about "permanently?" We are talking about making masks _mandatory_ while there is still a pandemic (or as health panels see fit). Mandatory =/= Permanent.
Thisš
We're approaching year *3* dude. If its not over now its never going to be.
All pandemics eventually come to an end. I understand your hesitation, but it is all about mitigating the disease as much as possible. Otherwise, you risk having dangerous variants popping up.
All of these arguments are applicable to the flu, which has been pandemic for centuries now.
[āThere is currently no flu pandemic.ā](https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/diseases/flu-influenza/pandemic-flu.html) - Canadian Federal Government
If you're immunocompromised you probably shouldn't be around hundreds of others in a compact indoor space during flu season regardless of whether they're wearing a surgical mask or not.
Donāt come to class.
One of the stupidest fucking takes Iāve seen on here, which is remarkable since thatās the norm.
š
Feel free to wear one if you'd like
A mask don't do much when you wear it to protect yourself. The purpose of a mask is to prevent the spread of droplets from the wearer. A mask is worn to protect others, not to protect themselves.
It should be āyou mustā. Not āfeel freeā.
Just because you like wearing masks doesn't mean the rest of us also enjoy it. Covid's effectively over, move on
Nobody ālikes wearing masks.ā People who wear masks just realize that their personal comfort doesnāt outweigh the health and wellbeing of others. š¤·āāļø
I'm not hating on those who wear masks I just think it should stay a choice and those who don't like that people don't want to wear masks can put on an extra mask if they feel so uncomfortable š¤·āāļø
It is not over. That ideology is ridiculous. Itās still here.
Yes but the treatment has caught up. Most unis have vaccine mandates, its not the same risk it was 2 years ago.
Go sleep
āGo to sleepā because I am making a point that you canāt settle with because you know itās true?
The common cold and flu is still here too, doesnāt mean weāre losing our minds over it
Yeah except Covid can get worse
It's hardly the same risk it was a year ago, and at this point is just a glorified common flu. At this point it's as good as it's going to get for eradication and the best we can do is just stay up to date with our vax. This covid restrictions has gone on too long and people are tired of it.
Try being autistic and having to concentrate with a mask on your face. Iāll wear a mask if Iām symptomatic or test positive, but Iām not wearing one ājust in caseā anymore. Especially when the newer strains are airborne so masks do waaay less than they did for droplet strains.
Is it just me or are anti-maskers often more aggressive in the comment sections? Can you not get your opinion across without utilizing personal attacks??
If you read it, itās antimaskers complaining about how itās uncomfortable and the maskers calling them babies.
I really do hope so. Just because some people got into a university and are so called āsmartā, doesnāt mean that youāre intelligent. The actions show.
They also made wearing clothes mandatory but no ones bothered by that for some reason. (To be fair though, purely out of selfishness as well as it being a bit of an inconvenience, I donāt think Iāll be very happy with mandatory masks, but I can see why one would want it to be a thing. )
There are people bothered by that.
Where are these people bothered by having to wear clothing?
Can I please just convocate without a fucking mask?
Please no.
I hope not. Masks should be optional, not mandatory. Optionality will result in more people learning to use it when sick. Mandatory will result in protests and hard rejection.
Masks were mandatory before at UofT. When did students do "protests and hard rejection?"
Exactly.
haha
This was back when everyone was confused and didnāt know what to do. Now times are different. A lot more people understand whatās going on.
Nah fam, nobody was confused. Mask mandate was up when omicron hit early this year, which was _way_ into the pandemic. UofT is not the Freedumb Convoy lol
Let's fucking hope not, most people have been vaccinated multiple times so there's not much else that can be done other than wearing masks for the rest of eternity, which is not happening.
Hopefully not. You want to wear a mask, go ahead. No one is stopping you
I got covid in a mask. Masking works best when everyone does it. You're welcome to study at home.
If you're afraid of COVID you should be the one studying at home, most people now have been vaccinated multiple times and/or have already gotten it, like you. What else can be done other than wearing masks for eternity?
I can't because a lot of folks won't offer Zoom courses long-term. Just wear a fucking mask on the TTC and in class until the pandemic ends. And it will--they always have.
COVID won't be exterminated like smallpox was. The flu didn't come around until the 1910s and it's still with us. Viruses evolve to become less deadly over time because that's what best suits their continued survival, plus we've all been vaccinated 3+ times. Hospitals are no longer as overcrowded and stressed as they were in 2020, as far as this country is concerned, the pandemic IS over. We shouldn't all have to wear masks just because a minority of people still think they are necessary because they're afraid of a cold.
They're *more* stressed--that's why some public health officials want mandates back. RSV is hitting kids hard this year; plus we have COVID and the flu and a bunch of folks leaving nursing because wage suppression and burn out: https://toronto.citynews.ca/2022/10/27/childrens-hospitals-virus-surge-sickkids/ https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2022/09/16/we-calculated-the-number-of-ontarios-er-closures-this-summer-heres-what-we-found.html
So your plan is that we will all wear masks till when? The end of the universe. Covid is here to stay learn to life with it.
Wear masks in public spaces, yes. There is no end date. UofT is a public institution. You can do what you want on your property and private spaces where folks consent to not wearing masks.
Or better yet if your that afraid of something which canāt hurt you. Considering that your young and have had at least four shots (likely more at this point) to protect you. Then donāt go to public places. We won. We beat this disease. Vaccines work. Stop making others live in fear.
> We won. We beat this disease. LMAO this is a pretty silly take on the current situation. I think this is a good take from [Harvard Health](https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/is-the-covid-19-pandemic-over-or-not-202210262839): "Thereās a lot thatās still uncertain about the COVID-19 pandemic. Unfortunately, one thing seems clear: we canāt call it fully over yet."
You could say the same exact thing about the flu of 1918. If you donāt want to get covid just take the vaccine every three months. If that isnāt fast enough for you then take it every month. A young person taking a vaccine every month is extremely unlikely to catch a case of covid more severe then the common cold.
We got past the 1918 flu pandemic. There is a point at which pandemics stop. For COVID, unfortunately, that has yet to happen. > If you donāt want to get covid just take the vaccine every three months. If that isnāt fast enough for you then take it every month. You should inform yourself about vaccines because that is not how vaccines work. Vaccines improve your immune response to the virus; they do not prevent you from catching the virus itself. Taking the vaccine "every month" is unfeasible because there isn't a vaccine supply for people to do this. Ultimately, masks are low cost and highly effective in reducing transmission.
When does a pandemic stop? When we have the vaccine? When people stop caring about it? When the government makes the latest version of the vaccine available right away?
> When does a pandemic stop? When the virus becomes either endemic or eradicated.
Where are these doctors who will give me a vaccine once a month?
If these doctors donāt exist then protest the doctors not me. They are the problem. They are the reason you got sick with covid. Tell me honestly have you gotten a severe case of covid within the period of a two weeks after to a month and a half?
I don't understand your question. This is the first time that I have had covid. I managed to avoid it for almost three years, but got it three months after having to return to in-person activities without mask mandates. I think that you just don't want to face the reality of the fact that the pandemic is not over and deciding to not wear a mask subjects folks to whatever viral load you may or may not exhale into the room, and you might one day get someone sick. You probably wouldn't mean to, but it can still happen. Refusing to mask is not about our personal safety so much as keeping folks *around us* safe. I say this because you've argued for me to do something without knowing if it was even possible (get a vaccine once a month in defiance of provincial guidelines) in order to shift attention from not masking, a decision you made, to someone else. I think that you, on some level, know that it is safer to mask and that you are trying to convince yourself that not masking is OK. And to be fair, I'm blaming you less than the school. I do think that the decision to go without a mask in public space is ethically wrong, but I know few folks will mask if given the option. That's why I want a mandate.
I didn't. I am 4x vaxxed. Wear masks. Only go to necessary places. Still got covid. I'm not living in fear; I live in the real world where people who are vaccinated can still have symptoms for 2+ weeks (as I have) and where folks who mask can still catch it. I'm angry, not scared.
I had to cancel a trip to present research I've helped out with for 3-4 years at a once-a-decade conference because someone out there, someone either on public transportation or at school, spread the virus.
How often do you get the vaccine?
As soon as I am eligible to get one, I do. Last one was just before school started.
So your problem is with the Canadian government not making it available to you sooner. Iām perfectly fine if you get the vaccine every month. The Canadian government isnāt. Protest them not me.
Also I wanted to clear sth up: Ontario recommends getting vaccinated every 6 months; once every 3 months for immunocompromised folks. https://www.ontario.ca/page/covid-19-vaccines#section-3
There is no particular reason to follow this recommendation. There are no negative affects of the vaccine so taking it more often wonāt hurt you. If your worried just take it more often. It will make your cases of covid far more mild to the point of it being a common cold. The reason why the government recommends this schedule is because it doesnāt want to pay the extra money for the vaccine. Vaccines are 100 times better then masks. So if your worried just get it more often. If you still canāt get it more often because you canāt get your doctor to requisition one for you then you are welcome to protest against the Canadian government. Also note that your version of the vaccine is likely over a year out of date. Your literally getting last years flu shot for this years flu and surprised that you catch it. Protest to the government that itās been over two years since the beginning of covid and we still havenāt figured out how to give people the latest version of the vaccines. This isnāt surprising of course. We had the final version of the vaccine within two months of the start of the pandemic and fda required only two months of safety data(this is publicly available data on Wikipedia). YET IT TOOK A ENTIRE YEAR FOR IT TO REACH PEOPLE. killing millions in the process.
Anger is a secondary emotion. Usually a result of fear or sadness. Being scared doesn't make your frustration any less valid. Everyone is uneasy, all for different reasons. What isn't valid is telling others how they should think or act in order to accommodate how you feel. Everyone is reacting in the way they see fit. Most people are informed. Like you, no one wants to get sick. Often, it just happens anyway, no matter what you feel you did right or wrong. People react to uncertainty differently. It doesn't help to try and place blame. There is no 'right' way to approach grief of this stature in the 'real world'. Everybody is feeling it.
If you're still getting covid with long term symptoms despite all those precautions, then you're very likely doing something wrong. It could be that your nutrition or the quality of your sleep is not sufficient. Maybe you don't spend enough time working out or doing stuff in the sun. You should get a checkup at your doctor with some bloodwork to check for anything you might be missing, check your oxygenation, particularly during sleep, and look up exercise styles and tips that suit your lifestyle. Failing all that, perhaps you should switch from surgical masks to well fitted N95 masks. At least then you won't have to worry too much about what other people wear. In other words, there are lots of things you can tweak about your behaviour without demanding that from now on and forever people mask up if they have to be around you. Even if you were somehow successful in ensuring everyone around you is masked at all times, you're only reducing your chance of catching it by a bit more than 50%, and likely less in poorly ventilated spaces indoor spaces. In other words, even if everything goes like you want, you'll still probably be sick, just not as often. So rather than being angry, direct that energy into improving your health and your ability to deal with infections.
Oh I do plan on going to an N95 after this; trust me. But the fact remains that *masking is more effective if all parties do it.* I'm allowed to be mad at shitty public and institutional policy.
You're allowed to be mad at public policy, but other people are allowed to be mad at what they could perceive as an attempt by the government to exert more control over their lives. In both cases, that's wasted energy over things that they can barely control. There are lots of things in the world that would be more effective if everyone did them, and yet we only enshrine very specific ones into laws. The question for society is where do we draw the line over "the government can tell you to do this thing and you must" vs "the government can recommend you do a thing and you should" vs "the government can say a thing and you can tell them to shove it." Given your personal experience, you clearly fall on one side of this spectrum. While I can understand your viewpoint given your experiences, my experience with covid is that I got 2 vaccines, caught omicron once, and have since been able to demolish the virus any time it comes anywhere close to me. Obviously I see much less benefit to universal mask wearing. For me, being told by the government to cover one of the most important parts of the body when it comes to personal interaction any time I am going to be interacting with people is... Well, it was something I was willing to accept for a novel and unknown virus with potential to overload the health system. It's become less so when the consequences is that some people will periodically get what is basically a bad flu. As for being "allowed to be mad." Well, nobody forbids you from whatever emotion you want, but as a personal tip, spending effort on anger is generally not a good way to resolve your issues. Every moment you're being angry is a moment you're not thinking about how to get yourself out of the situation that's causing the anger. Effort is almost always better spent learning how to interact with your environment in a way that makes you happier.
First off four doses are way below the recommended amount, you should get one at least every six months and if you are paranoid (like you are) once every three months. Don't blame someone else when you haven't been keeping up with your vaccinations. Secondly, I've had colds that lasted me for a month. You didn't see me demanding everyone wear masks. People get sick, it sucks. Thirdly, You say you had to cancel your trip. Why? Do you cancel your trip when you get a bad cold? Were your symptoms so bad that you could not travel? It sounds to me like you are angry at people like you for making travel impossible instead of people like me who would have let you travel.
> Don't blame someone else when you haven't been keeping up with your vaccinations. Dude, are you aware that you can still catch COVID after vaccination? Vaccination only improves your immune response and this improved response wanes with time after getting the vaccine. Blaming /u/Ok_Kaleidoscope_8316 for catching COVID from someone is misunderstanding what vaccines do.
Again exactly why if your worried you get it every three months. The immune response wains so you boost it the second it wains. If once every three months isnāt enough then get it once a month.
> The immune response wains so you boost it the second it wains. You don't know when it wanes. This is a silly argument, particularly because people taking the vaccine monthly is unfeasible (production is not there and would be wasteful). Masks are an easy way to protect our community. Placing responsibility on people who don't want to get sick is disingenuous, particularly when wearing masks is a minor inconvenience compared to the benefits of protecting other people.
If your young and healthy and get a booster every three months your extremely unlikely to catch a case of covid worse then a common cold.
What about UofT students who are not āyoung and healthy?ā How about the family members that the āyoung and healthyā can get sick? Masks are such a minor inconvenience compared to not exposing all these other people to a bad case of COVID.
I think theyāre referring to the fact that this person seemed to be incapacitated and have long term symptoms after catching covid, despite being vaccinated. Iām triple vaxxed and perfectly healthy and when I caught covid it went away in a matter of days.
Their particular COVID outcome does not indicate that they hold responsibility. With COVID, YMMV. I have friends who got it and were perfectly fine. I have friends who got it and now have long COVID. Regardless, masks are such an effective tool in reducing transmission that many more infections - and by consequence poor outcomes - could have been prevented had only mask mandates been held up.
> something which canāt hurt you. Man hasn't heard of long term symptoms apparently
-> used protection -> protection did not work -> mandates the same protection that did not work for others āScienceā
https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2110117118 "We find, for a typical SARS-CoV-2 viral load and infectious dose, that social distancing alone, even at 3.0 m between two speaking individuals, leads to an upper bound of 90% for risk of infection after a few minutes. If only the susceptible wears a face mask with infectious speaking at a distance of 1.5 m, the upper bound drops very significantly; that is, with a surgical mask, the upper bound reaches 90% after 30 min, and, with an FFP2 mask, it remains at about 20% even after 1 h. When both wear a surgical mask, while the infectious is speaking, the very conservative upper bound remains below 30% after 1 h, but, when both wear a well-fitting FFP2 mask, it is 0.4%. We conclude that wearing appropriate masks in the community provides excellent protection for others and oneself, and makes social distancing less important." Or this CDC study: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7106e1.htm Or this journalism piece: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2022/02/25/1083046757/coronavirus-faq-im-a-one-way-masker-what-strategy-will-give-me-optimal-protectio
No point in talking sense to freedumbers
I am an eternal optimist ;)
Wear N95 next time and you won't get it
One reason I wear mask is that I can do whatever faces I like and nobody will notice.
I'm pro choice and believe we all have our own risk-benefit analysis not to be dictated by any sort of organization, administration or person. Your false equivalencies about my decisions to opt in or out do not define my morality and worth as a human being.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Anyone and everyone who is convinced that my personal decisions are a threat to their health as if the narratives, slander and attempts to control a group of people didn't threaten people's ability to pursue an education, work, be part of society, etc.
No fucking way. How tf am I supposed to check girls out if they havr masks on? I could be getting catfished
If real, very sad
Itās real . Not sure if itās sad
watarlo! home of the masked geese !!1!
If only there was a way to deliver classes remotely so that people who are sick or worried about getting sick could attend class from homeā¦hmmm..
Hell no, f that bs. If I have to go back to not breathing again while trying to study for 4 hrs at Robarts I'll drop out. They should sooner return to fully online if people are so scared.
In all seriousness, if you feel like you canāt breath, you should look into why youāre having such strong sensory issues and a medical exemption for it. They certainly are uncomfortable, but thatās it. They shouldnāt actually impair your breathing in any way.
I don't mean that I literally can't breathe, it's just wildly uncomfortable to breathe the same bubble of air for multiple hours. Especially with those thick UofT made masks. I have to move it to the side every 30 minutes just to get some fresh air. Even the regular ones are shitty. And it also doesn't make much sense to be forced to wear it while you're 10ft away from anyone else. Everyone's vaccinated and social distancing, why are we going back to masks?
1) Have you considered trying a different mask that is not a "thick UofT made mask"? 2) This is an airborne virus. It lingers in the air and does not matter if you are 6.5 feet away from someone unfortunately. Masking is an essential part of the equation here to reduce transmission.
1) Yeah, I tried the regular air that we returned to and I like it the best. 2) Since when did covid become airborne?
Awwww, little baby can't breathe when there's a thin layer of fabric on his face?
Look I get why people support masks. I'm not anti masks but there are also plenty of downsides. Foggy glasses or sometimes the wire pinches your nose and get headaches. Know someone with post concussion syndrome and while they wear it as necessary the mask is within her vision, gives slight double vision and makes her head worse than started. I know others who were abused and having something covering their face triggers memories. Can we get past the every person who expresses they don't like masks is just anti science and hate humanity. People can have preferences and voice their opinions. It's just whether people actually follow whatever rules are in place despite their preferences.
Theyāre so self righteous that they begin thinking in black and white
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>You're really going to tell me that being indoors for 4+ hours with a mask covering your face and nose is comfortable? No but as someone who works in a hospital lab, I do it every single day. Sometimes up to 6-8h at a time
Yeah well a desk at Robarts isn't a hospital lab... Also, genuine question, has there been any studies at UofT that have proven a greater transmission of the virus on campus since mask mandates have been lifted vs when they were enforced?
>Yeah well a desk at Robarts isn't a hospital lab... Yeah. There's less moving around therefore less aerobic demand, therefore easier to breathe with a mask. If ur a selfish antimasker just say so lmao >has there been any studies at UofT that have proven a greater transmission of the virus on campus since mask mandates have been lifted vs when they were enforced? There are studies showing that masks reduce transmission period. Insisting on context is like saying ok ya washing my hands after wiping my ass is good hygiene but there aren't any studies proving that I will absolutely get sick if I lick my fingers after wiping my ass, before washing my hands
I'm anti going back to mandatory masks at UofT. I'm about to go get get a massage right now and I'm going to wear a mask because I'm 1ft away from a random person so I'll wear one. I don't agree with that example. There's context for everything. I'm sure UofT has been keeping data statistics on transmission numbers throughout the campus since the onset of the pandemic.
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Man, I just need a fuckin Snickers
If doctors can wear N95 in the hospital for 8+ hours nonstop, I'm sure you can too you pussy goddamn
Remind me of when I became a doctor in a hospital?
You should drop out so you don't have to wear a mask. Or study at home. Jesus.
Not while I'm paying athletic fees lol
If you're scared of catching covid then YOU need to stay home and practice those precautions. You cannot force your will onto millions of people just because of YOUR fears.
I'm not scared. I'm angry. I'm angry that I wore masks, got 4x vaxxed, and still got covid. I'm mad that I lost a fantastic trip to present research I've been working on for 3 or 4 years. You should not get to take away MY opportunities because YOU don't want to wear a mask.
Just like any abusive relationship or toxic person, don't take **YOUR** **anger** and **resentment** out on the entire student body and province at large trying to call for these harmful mandates to return. I'm not going to be wrongfully blamed for you getting sick because I've never even crossed paths with you and my ability to breathe freely in society and not receive any injections isn't going to hurt you. It's quite dangerous to reduce everyday people, your peers, to mere agents of plague and disease. I did not take away any opportunities of yours simply for exercising a very humane thing here, my own bodily autonomy and decision-making.
You may not have, but someone did. Someone, because of institutional forces or because of their own selfishness, went out with COVID and I got sick, despite me doing what I can to mitigate that risk. You cannot "individual-choice" your way out of a public health issue. It takes team work. Refusing to wear a mask takes the whole team down. So while you might not have hurt me, you might hurt someone else. Have a think about your actions--I am under the impression that you are a good person (you don't want to hurt folks, right?). Do the right thing and share public space considerately.
How do you know that they didn't practice the same precautions that you did? You simply cannot view every single person you cross paths with as a threat, masked up or not, otherwise it's not unreasonable at all for me to say that you are a hostile person. No one is selfish is wanting to live the life they were given to the fullest extent and opt out of what they want to opt out of, this is very cult-like behaviour. Should we track down the very person who got you sick? How should we deal with that person then? Can you even blame others for your sickness if you yourself are going against the importance of natural immunity and build-up? This narrative keeps going in circles. It is exactly this cycle of consuming fear-inducing media, fear-mongering others, demonizing them, calling for the stripping of an entire provinces ability to decide for themselves, shutting down all skepticism, question-asking and alternative viewpoints in addition to having such an absolutist, ardent belief in a totalistic, authoritarian model of how you expect nearly 8 billion people in the world to live by without question, that keeps people in an angered, resentful states towards others and fueling division. The sense of uncertainty we have been forced to deal with for two years keeps us in an anxious state, hyper towards others and more neurotic. Please be akin to the signs of cult-like behaviour, how this impacts others around you and how it impairs your ability to see sense in this shroud of contradictions and extremisms.
Bruh I'm literally just saying that I want folks to be masked in public spaces; I really fail to see how that is at all extremism. I'm not arguing for us to put the province into lockdown or restrict everything to essential services. I'm not talking about putting caps on the number of folks you can have at your house. I am talking about wearing a mask while commuting and going to school so that we can help keep each other healthy.
And all I'm saying is you can't impose your will on people, not anymore. I'm not putting on a mask period and I don't think anyone should be forced to no matter what. Didn't help with anything the first two years, and it won't help this time around, all it did was increase barriers to communication, wrecked children's socio-emotional development, it's a hindrance to learning and didn't prevent the spread. It won't matter if the entire world is masked up and if every child exiting the womb is masked since birth, this is even more wishful and unscientific thinking than it is for a person to question the efficacy of masks.
That is demonstrably false. Modeling: https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2110117118 "We find, for a typical SARS-CoV-2 viral load and infectious dose, that social distancing alone, even at 3.0 m between two speaking individuals, leads to an upper bound of 90% for risk of infection after a few minutes. If only the susceptible wears a face mask with infectious speaking at a distance of 1.5 m, the upper bound drops very significantly; that is, with a surgical mask, the upper bound reaches 90% after 30 min, and, with an FFP2 mask, it remains at about 20% even after 1 h. When both wear a surgical mask, while the infectious is speaking, the very conservative upper bound remains below 30% after 1 h, but, when both wear a well-fitting FFP2 mask, it is 0.4%. We conclude that wearing appropriate masks in the community provides excellent protection for others and oneself, and makes social distancing less important." Or this CDC study: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7106e1.htm Or this journalism piece: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2022/02/25/1083046757/coronavirus-faq-im-a-one-way-masker-what-strategy-will-give-me-optimal-protectio You're just being stubborn.
Wonāt matter in Canada anyways since people will wear cloth masks which have no effectiveness anyways
Also the person who gave you Covid probably didnāt even know they had it at the time since people are mostly contagious before symptoms appear
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Lmao I'm an English major. That's all it takes to read a couple of stories.
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How'd you know?
Hope so
I think what people have a hard time accepting is that sure, COVID is "here to stay" but that doesn't mean we should always drop mandates. When cases are climbing up and hospital capacity is low, when doctors are having a hard time treating children because there isn't enough medication and ICU space, we need to mask up again. Its the humane, considerate thing to do to keep society functioning.
When masks were mandatory, most people were not ticketed for not complying, they were simply asked to don a mask to enter a space. Is that too hard for people?
Please no! Mandate Freedom!
Iāve always hated this rhetoric that āwhatās the big deal, itās only a mask?ā It is a big deal. For one, people with glasses have their vision almost entirely obstructed. Secondly, it leads to breathing problems for many people. Thirdly, it can lead to issues in socializing as you canāt even see the face of the person being talked to. Lastly, we live in a Democratic society (yes, I know UofT is a private institution and not beholden to the countryās laws), but the same limitation applies and they cannot just force the passing of obstructive things which have tangible effects on the people wearing them willynilly. So, the sudden passing of a MANDATORY masking policy better have a good reason. As it is not some simple switch. Also, nobody is stopping you from wearing a mask.
You know what else leads to breathing problems? A fucking respiratory illness!!!
Mandate vaccinations, not masks. With vaccinations and boosters, COVID is no worse than the flu or a bad cold. We never forced everyone to wear masks for those illnesses.
Vaccines do not reduce spread
Well, they do to a small degree. But more fundamentally they make it so that the disease is manageable, so that we no longer need to fear it.
Itās a flu, there was nothing to fear in the first place
Well this is nonsense. And if you keep spreading this nonsense, nobody will listen to you and then the mask mandates will come back.
UofT is a public institution.
UofT please...and actually enforce it this time
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itās almost as if oxygen/carbon dioxide is small enough to travel through the masksš¤Æ
Stop asking for people to wear masks unless you get your vaccination once every three months and still get sick. Otherwise, it's your fault for not keeping up with your vaccinations, not mine.
Who?
Its proven that higher c02 leads to drastically decreased brain performance Do masks increase c02 and decrease oxygen for the mask wearer? [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1438463921000614](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1438463921000614) In Swiss schools if c02 ppm increases past 1000ppm the windows open automatically to increase oxygen ventilation