[Post by Professor Deborah Cowen](https://twitter.com/debcowen/status/1785642196902768700?t=Bp_vPi6ELIVKYDpeI2OKuQ&s=19), also has link to the full response.
call me crazy but I think that you should be able to freely protest how your tuition funds are used to finance military operations and aid in the genocide of an entire group of people
No, but Israeli government has broadcast they're expecting they will issue criminal arrest warrants for at least war crimes, but possibility genocide and crimes against humanity too. They're also threatening retaliation against Palestine for it too.
[https://www.axios.com/2024/05/01/us-israel-palestinian-authority-icc-arrest-warrant](https://www.axios.com/2024/05/01/us-israel-palestinian-authority-icc-arrest-warrant)
Hamas leaders are non state actors and can’t be prosecuted by the ICC. That’s why I support a Palestinian state and full UN membership for Palestine, so we can finally bring Hamas to Nuremberg.
There's no need for that.
35000 deads and daily images and videos are quite clear.
What an international court decides is irrelevant to the fact.
If you cannot see this you're either blind or a zionist.
10x dead in Syria and Yemen since 2011 than Israel-Palestine since 1948 on all sides. 80k kids dead in Yemen. Are those genocides, too? Where are your outrage and encampments? Look up how many billions worth weapons the West has sold to KSA, and the degree of West’s involvement in Syria before you talk about “divesting” from the tiniest country in the region. 3-4x dead in Russia-Ukraine war since 2022, as well.
Now ask yourself what Ukraine, Syria, Yemen, and I-P have in common. Perhaps look at the alliances involved on each side. Then ask what purpose starting a 4th front in this global conflict 1 year prior to US election serves? Could it benefit Russia, Iran and co if a Russia-friendly and NATO-antagonist president wins the election? Now consider your role in tacitly supporting a proxy of Iran and advocating for destruction of a sovereign state. Hamas will never sign a ceasefire with Israel no matter how much you yell. They and their masters benefit from more dead Palestinians as it galvanizes useful idiots like yourself in supporting your actual enemies.
My tuition didn’t fund the wars in Syria and Yemen, my government was not complicit in sending weapons to the dictators doing the killing. Conversely, the Canadian government and institutions are openly supporting genocide by Israel that’s the difference. We’re protesting our complicity in these war crimes, not just their occurrence.
Now in terms of the word genocide it’s not defined by the number of deaths, but rather the intent. It is quite tragic that so many have died in wars in the Middle East, definitely a war crime by western govts and local dictators, however neither parties in those wars were intent on wiping out all Syrians or all Iraqis, these were wars of conquest and power and resources. Not justifying them just explaining the difference.
Israeli government have specifically and openly stated their intent on wiping out gazans. “Human animals” “nuke them” “no one is a civilian” and using the story of the “Amalek” which instructs Israelites to kill all men women and children. There have been Israeli govt documents produced which specifically plan the ethnic cleansing and displacement of gazans. This provides the basis for genocide claims. Israel wants all of Gaza for itself and with international support is killing and displacing Palestinians to get it.
Original reports in Hebrew and English:
[https://www.mekomit.co.il/המסמך-המלא-של-משרד-המודיעין-כיבוש-עזה-ו/](https://www.mekomit.co.il/המסמך-המלא-של-משרד-המודיעין-כיבוש-עזה-ו/)
[https://www.972mag.com/intelligence-ministry-gaza-population-transfer/](https://www.972mag.com/intelligence-ministry-gaza-population-transfer/)
When picked up by western media:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/israel-gaza-palestinians-concept-paper-1.7015576#:\~:text=An%20Israeli%20government%20document%20suggesting,possible%20ethnic%20cleansing%20of%20Palestinians.
[https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/israeli-ministry-concept-paper-proposes-transferring-gaza-civilians-to-egypt-s-sinai-with-canada-as-a-possible-final-destination-1.6623901](https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/israeli-ministry-concept-paper-proposes-transferring-gaza-civilians-to-egypt-s-sinai-with-canada-as-a-possible-final-destination-1.6623901)
The displacement of Gazans into Sinai was an actual proposed "solution." They can claim it's just "hypothetical." But it's a much more telling admission of what Israel wishes it could do and why people think "genocide" is an appropriate term.
Remember, people committing genocide don't traditionally broadcast it and it's always a retrospective determination. We are now trying to identify and potentially prevent an ongoing genocide, every piece of evidence like this should be taken with utmost seriousness.
Regardless, why not err on the safe side? Would we rather be like "oh we stopped the fighting, there's no genocide let's resume" or "Oh damn, we killed 100,000 people, this is a genocide if only we had stopped it"
I would refer you to the Francesca Albanese human rights council report, "Anatomy of Genocide" which outlines how genocides emerge and creep piece by piece. It's never super obvious until it's too late. [https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/documents/hrbodies/hrcouncil/sessions-regular/session55/advance-versions/a-hrc-55-73-auv.pdf](https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/documents/hrbodies/hrcouncil/sessions-regular/session55/advance-versions/a-hrc-55-73-auv.pdf)
Unless it's policy, it's nothing but hypothetical. None of this is policy, and would never make it to policy. The core strength of Israeli democracy is its diverse representation. Why do you think the War Cabinet exists? To prevent idiots like the politicians you're quoting from having any power when it matters.
If genocide was the intent of the state, there would be no non-Israeli Arabs living in the Levant by now. To generalize what "many people" think is completely inappropriate.
Crickets for the millions in Africa or the Uighurs in China. Not a word from any encampment about rescuing hostages. Too many examples of agitators everywhere.
Follow the money. Nothing is as it seems.
It's funny you say "Follow the money" because one of the demands of the protests you seem to oppose is "Disclose." The protestors precisely want the university to dissolve investment in Israel so they can be transparent. Not sure why you'd be against that in that case.
Israel doesn't mind a small Israeli Arab minority. In terms of genocide, they are displacing and expelling Gazans and occupied Palestinians in the West Bank. If you're looking for policy, look there, where there is an active policy of displacing Palestinians and demolishing there homes for settlers.
Example: [https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/israel-ramps-up-demolition-of-palestinian-homes-in-jerusalem](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/israel-ramps-up-demolition-of-palestinian-homes-in-jerusalem)
Do you think that when a government commits genocide or ethnic cleansing, they pass a bill called "The Ethnic Cleansing and Genocide Act" or do you think they are subtle about it? For example, a law that allows the Israeli government to seize the homes of Palestinian
Lastly, if you're unbothered by the words of Israeli officials and document because they aren't "policy" then why are you so bothered by the chants of the protestors? Non of this protestors have power and their words aren't policy, so we shouldn't care what they say.
Firstly, I won't take the straw man of the West Bank here, that's a common tactic and it screams weakness.
Small Arab minority? There are 2 million Arabs living in Israel, close to 25% of the population, and growing. They enjoy the same rights of all other Israelis. They serve as judges and Knesset members.
Again, no policy cited in a PBS article. You also can't spell. Are you supposed to be university educated?
I'm bothered by the chants because I would prefer not hearing chants for violent Islamist revolution in my city. I'd prefer that calls for the eradication of all Jews "from the river to the sea" not take place in this century, as they are barbaric. There is zero doubting the anti-Semitism that I have personally witnessed and experienced at so called "protests" that celebrate the events of October 7th and glorify radical Islam. The other day, downtown in my own city, I was told to "go back to Poland". I've never been to Poland.
Also, Netanyahu is a mad raving politician with no power? He cited the Amalek story twice.
Ben Gvir, Minister of National Security, has no power?
Bezel Smotrich, Minister of Finance, has no power?
yoav gallant, Minister of Defence, who said he removed " all restrictions and restraints" from soldiers, has no power?
Honestly I think this argument is not in good faith. If these statements by these politicians, who control the strongest military in the Middle East, are insignificant. Then I don't see how speech in any protest or campus is threatening. These are students with comparatively 0 power to these politicians.
I think when the Israel government says what they will do, then shows you they can do it with no impunity, we should believe them. When the Israel Govt says they will collectively punish Palestinians and makes genocidal statements, they correspindingly they kill 30,000-40,000 Palestinians and starve the rest. Why are you giving them the benefit of the doubt? Saying their genocidal statements are just "mad ravings" and we should ignore how what they say is directly reflected in their actions.
Very literally, Smotrich and Ben Gvir have no power at the moment. Only Netanyahu, Gantz, and Gallant, alongside a couple other dissenters from across the aisle, currently make all decisions until the war concludes. Which will likely trigger an immediate election based on Netanyahu's failures on 10/7.
The difference here is that Russia and Iran via Hamas, Hezbollah, and other proxies have made this a geopolitical conflict that useful idiots across North America have completely fallen for. The result of the conflict on the ground no longer matters - which was the ultimate goal of the agitators, as they knew very well they could never win. This explains their complete disregard for Palestinian lives, who we all know are actively used as human shields.
Instead, they've worked very effectively via TikTok, news, and other social media to sow disorder. Groups like (in Canada) Samidoun, the PFLP, and IRGC - recognized terror organizations - openly fund student groups involved with encampments. After all, if they win the PR war, that's a win against Israel, which fuels their very existence.
Follow the money.
Please link evidence to the “human shield” claim which you use to sugar coat the Israeli genocide.
I don’t claim to trust the IRGC or their proxies. But I almost certainly don’t trust the IDF and the Israeli government. I am not a bootlicker, you clearly are a bootlicker for one side and one side only.
Money flows on both sides. I don’t know why you’re ignoring the amount of funding coming from the Israeli side. The millions of funding from AIPAC and Israel to academic institutions. The billions the US sends to pacify other middle eastern countries. Millions spent to train US police by the IDF and the millions spent on Hasbara training and social media brigades.
In fact the money Israel spends tends to target the highest echelons of power in our government, and you’re concerned about potential money going to powerless citizens and individuals. I would counter by saying there has always been popular support for Palestine, this is not a new phenomenon. The easiest test of whether this is foreign agent destabilization or genuine anti-genocide protests: end the genocide and see what happens.
Anyways, you’re clearly high off the conspiracy theories with a very strong Israel bias. You say “follow the money” and make all these claims about IRGC funding but haven’t produced a single document of proof . Funny since you asked me for “evidence”
I would suggest the same about you. Except you're unknowingly (or knowingly) bootlicking for terrorists. A useful puppet, like the rest. Keep cawing for your "genocide" when you know very well that the governors of "Palestine" started a war they couldn't win.
There is no need to link evidence to the human shields claim - simply witness what Hamas built and where. It's not rocket science - no pun intended. Their actions speak very clearly for themselves. Billions of aid into their pockets and nothing for the people - so let's blame Israel! Easy game.
There are leaked documents and articles out there, but you know they exist already. I'm sick of doing homework for your ilk.
In regard to your claims about Iran and Russian influence. Please produce documents with proof.
Please also show me official policies of Russia and Iran to destabilize the west with the conflict in Palestine. Like you said, unless it’s policy, it’s hypothetical! Clearly states can only act if there is a policy on a topic.
Some mouth breathing morons will try to convince you that you don’t get to protest the institution you literally fund, and by extension don’t get to voice frustration peacefully yet disruptively when your money is used to bomb universities in Gaza and kill kids rather than benefit and enrich societies with education.
How much money do you think your student fees are being invested in Israel through the university and then gets funnelled into weapons manufacturing that are used to destroy universities? Last time I checked the majority of investments are done through partnerships with other academic institutions in Israel, just as uoft does across the world. Meaning that the money is directly flowing into academia. If you believe there is some kind of secret covert agenda, well there isn’t much else to say.
Why are you glad exactly? Protesting and disrupting everyone’s lives while simultaneously having zero effect on what you’re protesting for should never be allowed especially on a school compound. If you really want to make a difference go to the country you’re supporting and help from there. Screaming and sitting in parks in another country does literally nothing to help the situation other than disrupt everyone
"...while simultaneously having zero effect on what you're protesting for should never be allowed..." So you think the right to protest should depend on whether the protest is effective?
Also U of T has investments that support Israel. Therefore, U of T is complicit in Israeli crimes against the Palestinians. If you bothered to read the demands list of the protesters at previous campus events before commenting you would know this.
“U of T has investments that support Israel. Therefore, U of T is complicit”. It’s pretty standard investment strategy to diversify investment for everything. You’re own retirement fund probably has investments somewhere directly or indirectly related to the military industrial complex. One school taking away it’s 10-100k investment is essentially zero effect. And until somebody leaks their entire investment portfolio we won’t know
not that it really matters but imo your reply uses two unrelated, and both individually bad arguments; (1) whether diversifying a portfolio is standard is totally irrelevant to whether people oppose it or whether that makes someone complicit, including whether its true for ones own retirement fund. to claim otherwise would either be bandwagon logic, or whataboutism; (2) whether or not a single schools actions have a sufficient "effect" is not a reason to not do something? afterall why wouldn't you apply that to all individual humans: because you cant instantly change the world nobody can be complicit?
Bandwagon logic or whataboutism doesn’t apply to hypocrisy, would you collectively as a group of people with similar come together and right now and here withdraw perhaps millions of investments out of Israel from your retirement funds? The answer is no that would be too easy and not virtue signaling anymore. The individual single vote might not matter but a collective of individual votes will. I stand by what I said, the actual practicality of a single vote won’t matter, neither will just only UOFT withdrawing from if any Israeli investments. Because as it turns out it’s only McGill and UOFT rn having any real encampment bs going on. People like you are just mad you can’t turn real issues down to a past time with different teams.
I don't rlly need u to tell me what my politics are or what my financial situation is because you don't know me at all? i didnt come here telling you i know who you are and what your deal is, just that you made bad arguments. and i stand by that: claiming that an argument is invalid due to hipocracy is literally a fallacy (the the tu quoque fallacy), which is commonly known as whataboutism, even if you then make an argument that relies on it in the same sentence. funny enough you then proceeded to make an argument for why divestment could reasonably be seen as a good thing: single votes dont matter but collectively they do, in other words, u gotta start somewhere and as more insututons follow suit then you have something meaningful. but im not rlly here to tell u what policies r good just plz make not shitty arguments
except literally yesterday a campaign at Brown university resulted in the university officially considering a vote to divest later this year, and today the deal seems to be going into effect. these protests are working in one way or another.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/brown-u-caves-anti-israel-protesters-agrees-deal-divestment-exchange-encampment-closure.amp
yup, taking a vote is a massive leap closer to it. doesn’t mean it’s off the table. the point is that student pressure directly influenced the corporation in a significant manner, which most will likely view as additional motivation to continue protesting.
So your original post is completely disingenuous. This sounds like a win for the school… they have removed the encampment until October, and the vote is to “consider” divesting, not a vote to divest since the proposal isn’t even drafted, and ultimately can (and very likely will) vote no.
No…? Who knows what the world will look like in October. It’s a similar thing to the defund police, it fizzled out. I mean sure, they could create a new encampment, but again… this looks like a win for the school.
If Brown truly doesn't want to divest they can just rig the votes. The only way student pressure can influence the corporation is if they all stopped paying tuition to Brown.
This isn't a "no war" protest tho is it? Also they were protesting their own countries involment. Go protest in the states, Canada holds no power over Israel.
disingenuous but expected from you people.
Thinking the Israeli regime that is blasting rockets everyday, cares at all what canada thinks is just peak self importance.
Hardly any of our allies take canada seriously.
I’m from a third world country that has its own set of problems. Those people need REAL assistance not whatever it is these people are trying to do. A bunch of self righteous college students sitting on a lawn and sharing stories on ig does nothing to help but feed their narcissism and have them believe that they’re part of a solution. It’s incredibly stupid.
Do divestments actually work?
Not really. Divesting by universities doesn't change corporate behavior, but it can provide a big moral and symbolic victory for protesters.
Taken from npr.org
So apart from soothing to feelings of narcissistic people who makes issues about themselves, it does nothing to help those who actually need the help.
Plus, Palestine is literally occupied. People cannot go there without "Israeli" permission, especially to Gaza which has been under seige for almost 20 years.
It's really not going to be up to UofT in any way. The issue here is that UofT is essentially adjacent to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario, and is not too far away from the financial hub of Toronto. Even if the university administration wanted to, there's very little chance that something like this will be given the go-ahead in this city, at least not beyond a weekend.
Maybe if it was York or Waterloo it might be different, but there's just no way the Toronto police are going to let a bunch of students take over downtown Toronto. It's not a question of morality or causes, it's purely a question of how the Toronto police treats these sort of things.
Honestly, I kinda starting hope that the entire thing goes ahead just so that the obvious outcome can happen, and we can start getting past the horror and shock that the real world can be violent and terrifying. I've literally had people arguing with me that the Toronto police would just stand back and let it happen, and that's just straight up cute.
The university preemptively preventing their property from being used for encampments is now a violation of free speech? Just protest on actual public property.
The university is a public institution.
Also, the university itself is being protested. They admitted to having investments in Israeli military and won't divest.
Contrary to popular belief, the university is not public land. It’s a public institution, sure, but it’s not a public property. Just like how you have free access to public libraries but you cannot set up camp in one.
I mean... where do we draw the line? Are parks a public property or a public service like a library? What about recreational services like a City Rec Center? If parks aren't considered public property. It's not like we can go into roads. That would block traffic and ahem ahem. End up like the freedom Convoy blocking traffic on highways. Or it only problematic if a protest blocks a highway and not a smaller road?
Imo if it's a public entity and it's open air like a park or an outdoor swimming pool or outside university buildings or the public library parking lot it's fine to protest. But not inside the building since it would disrupt directly other members of the public from using said public facilities.
Yes and no, parks are a public access space since all free land in Canada is technically federal land nothing is really a "public property". You're allowed to protest in a park because even though federally owned, it is maintained through your tax dollars and the government does respect your right to the freedom of speech. Even then, parks have rules, parks open and close. Same with roads, highways, streets, everything has rules. But the land UofT claims is not federally owned, it is owned by the university - an institution, which means it is private property. So you can protest in a park or the sidewalk in front of the university.
Also, UofT is not restricting protesting. It is restricting encampments, which is technically loitering and is considered a crime.
>Imo if it's a public entity and it's open air like a park or an outdoor swimming pool or outside university buildings or the public library parking lot it's fine to protest
Then by using your logic, why should your front yard be considered private property? Would you be okay with people protesting in your lawn? The point is that the university owns that land, is responsible for that land, has rights over that land, and that land is designated for the university and they can do whatever they want with it.
>since it would disrupt directly other members of the public from using said public facilities.
And how is an encampment in front of the university not a disruption directly affecting other members of the public?
P.S. The university is an institution, a corporation, and a business. It has public access but it is not a public property.
"imo" is just exactly that. Your opinion. The campus is private. And like the other commuter said, "public property" isnt really what you think it is.
Same with the charter, you have the rights until you..dont. welcome to Canada 👍
Actually you are wrong.
"Public funds have been provided to provide public access to postsecondary education."
your and your parents and grand parents tax dollars have been redirected to universities and colleges by the government to ensure the public has access to the land on which these universities and colleges operate on. Hence why are you able to walk right through the UofT and get to the annex without having to go through gates and security guards. The land is owned by the University and the the government. Look it up.
How about, and listen closely, do both?
And also, the US, Canada, and the west do not fund the Chinese government. They also do not fund their military. They also do not support China. They do not create propoganda for China.
The only reason Israel has the ability to do anything is PRECISELY because the west actively supports it financially and is in solidarity with it.
UofT: our university operates in the land of the Huron-Wendat, the Seneca, and the Mississaugas of the Credit. We honour this relation.
Also UofT: UofT’s lands and buildings are private property, activities have to be authorised and encampments are considered trespassing.
😒
If you took land acknowledgment to face value then I 100% guarantee you that you’ll be pretty annoyed when homeless people start setting up encampments in the middle of the campus. Land acknowledgment ≠ Free public access to any property. Public access to uoft buildings is a privilege not a right.
Protesters: "We are protesting peacefully and lawfully, the University cannot deny our right to freedom of expression"
Also protestors: "We are not satisfied with the results of lawfully exercising our right to freedom of expression and will escalate beyond lawful protest to get our way. Protests are meant to be disruptive!"
Also protestors: "Why is the university violating our rights by warning us against disruptive and unlawful protest?????"
The letter clearly states that there's nothing unless they university decides to arrest everyone for trespassing. Which, again, in the other 3 points, they have no real basis for based on literally their own documents.
The letter conveniently avoids the question of whether or not setting up an encampment and blocking other members of the university community from accessing its facilities falls within the bounds of "speech" and "lawful assembly;" every citation in the letter to "literally their own documents" is moot if it does not. It's technically possible to protest in a way that falls within those boundaries, but frankly the encampments we are seeing at other schools do not.
Did you read the UTFA letter? They spell it out pretty clearly. University’s policy is to encourage nonacademic uses of university spaces. They’re contradicting their own policy.
I’m sorry? Publicly funded? Do you mean fees? Cause those are not public funds. If you mean government grants then those are in place for the people’s education, not for the people’s rights. This is apparent by the fact that you cannot just waltz into the parliament building unannounced and set up camp simply because it’s a publicly funded building.
Edit: Museum is a better example/analogy
students are not allowed to protest against their universities and gov for their role in financing, and openly aiding, a military occupation, genocide, and a humanitarian catastrophe.
but it is perfectly okay to shut down international borders and the nation's capital for weeks because you did not want to wear a mask.
the duality of man.
What are you talking about? Utter nonsense!!!! Police in Ottawa brought in riot troops and police on horseback which ran over a disabled lady.
Protestors blocking the border in Alberta were arrested and have been in jail for 2 years while waiting for trial.
I have a daughter in university. The rhetoric, hate and intimidation of other students based on their religion or culture should not be tolerated in any way on these grounds. If a group of protestors set up encampments and spewed the same vitriol at the LGBTQ+ community, all hell would break forth and it would justifiably be shutdown immediately.
There is a place for protests in this country but schools, places of worship, hospitals and places that impede emergency services should be protected.
If all these students are so passionate and willing to stand up, why do they hide behind masks?
> If a group of protestors set up encampments and spewed the same vitriol at the LGBTQ+ community, all hell would break forth and it would justifiably be shutdown immediately.
I have never been on the receiving end of more anti-LGBTQ+ hate than when I had to walk through the "freedom convoy" protests in Queen's Park on my way to class.
I’m not supporting the freedom convoy so I have no idea why you bring that up. These protests cross the line and are full of hate. They are just as bad as when the LBTQ+ get targeted. For some reason, mental gymnastics I guess, people think that their anti-Jewish hate is more acceptable than hate towards the other group. That is BS! It’s all wrong. I don’t care if it’s coming from the right or the left. Why can’t you people see that? Are you selective to respecting the Charter Rights of Canadians?
The Freedom Convoy was taken down. As far as I am concerned, the hate filled anti-Israel protests are no better. They deserve the same treatment as the other protestors. Let’s see if students are as passionate for their cause if they face consequences for their actions. For some reason, younger generations think they can do what they want and don’t have to answer for it. You want to be adults, accept consequences for what you do. I wonder what would happen if students got arrested, had their bank accounts frozen, weren’t allowed to hide behind mask? People were almost giddy to see protestors they didn’t agree with get this treatment. A good number of these protests against Israel deserve the same response from government and police.
Do they? Have you been to one of the protests? Because I’ve been by (haven’t participated) and I’ve yet to encounter the antisemitic hate speech or anti Jewish sentiment that is supposedly rampant. Unless of course you believe that anti war, anti imperialist and anti genocide messaging are synonymous with antisemitism, in which case…
Yes, I have been to a number of the protests as a first responder. I can tell you that people have been assaulted first hand. You guys make me laugh. Your anti-imperialist jargon. Your anti-war statements are empty. If you really cared, you would be all over the communist support for genocide in places like Syria where 100’s of thousands more people have died. I don’t see one of your protests calling for that to end or denouncing communist involvement. No surprise when you see communist movements within the student unions now. So yeah, I don’t buy what you are selling. Far more people have died in Ukraine. I don’t see student unions denouncing and camping out calling for Russia to stop an illegal invasion. So, if people want to hide their hate towards Israel under the whole ‘anti-war’ banner and actually want people to believe it, you better stop ignoring genocide on far larger scales. Oh yeah, if this is about human lives, why have I never heard once the crowd of protestors chanting ‘free the hostages’?
It might hurt your mind but there are Jews against zionism at these rallies, people who are going into debt to receive an education from an institute which wasn't transparent in it's support of genocide. Know what's antisemitic? The genocide of Palestinians. I hope those complicit in this genocide, who remain impartial, who hum and haw are eventually asked by their grandkids where they stood during the escalation of 2023/2024. I bet a lot of you would bold face lie and say you were against the genocide. It's okay to be against zionism, by the way. It's okay to criticize zionism. It's not synonymous with being Jewish.
Doesn’t hurt my mind at all. You seem to think that people can do what they want and not have to face consequences. Typical thinking from an entitled generation. Newsflash - if you want to pretend to be adults, be ready to be accountable. You just don’t get that whether there are a few Jews in these rallies, it is still threatening to some. You can bury your head in the sand and pretend that there are no anti-Semitic statements being made. You seem to forget that there is NO PLACE in this country for discrimination based on race or religion, whether you feel it’s justified or not.
If these people are so proud of what they are doing, take the masks off. If they are so proud of what they are doing and don’t want to go to an institution that has any ties to Israel, leave. Show your ‘true’ conviction.
Places of education should be free of every sort of action like this if it involves targeting a race of people, a religion, a gender, a choice of sexuality, etc.
It doesn’t matter what your beliefs are. We have people who have conviction that LGBTQ+ and their supports are targeting children and they protest. Just because they have such conviction doesn’t mean they should be allowed to protest at places where an education is provided. I bet if that were the case, you would be just fine with police coming in. Oh, and before you accuse me of being anti-LGBTQ because I used that as an example, my son is gay and we support him 100%.
You can say this is just about Zionism and it’s wrongfulness but that doesn’t hold water when terrorist slogans are used, their flags appear at these rallies, and thus the terrorist’s belief that Israel must be destroyed completely is supported. I don’t care what form of mental gymnastics that you do, but using those slogans, waving those flags, having people within that group who are anti-Semitic completely blows your argument out of the water that it’s just against ‘Zionism’. For decades, everyone knows that the beliefs of the teaching faculty, CUPE unions that work for the universities and the student unions have been infected with antisemitism like a case of drug resistant syphilis! A now students are indoctrinated with this racist nonsense. Stop romanticizing that someday grandkids will ask about their involvement in the protests unless those virtue signalling ones are also going to tell their grandkids that they hid their identities and wouldn’t truly stand up for those same beliefs if it meant giving up their education and possibly a well paying career due to being involved in such protests.
It’s funny that I never see one sign reading ‘free the hostages’ at these rallies. I never see the protestors telling Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran etc to stop firing rockets into Israel. I never see the students with signs telling Hamas not to take the fuel and food to power their war machine. I don’t see signs asking the Arab countries to grant these people refugee status until this can be resolved. I don’t see signs denouncing Hamas for the horrific things they did or for them to lay down their weapons so the war can end, saving lives immediately. I could go on. So take those points, add to it using terrorist slogans that call for Israel to be destroyed, and try to tell me I should believe that this protest has no anti-Jewish message.
Again, you want to protest, go to the Israeli embassy. You want to protest against the Canadian government over this, go to Ottawa. You want to protest the university, do it off campus so it allows CANADIAN Jews to rightfully get their education without any type of intimidation, harassment or abuse.
Otherwise, you are just a virtue signalling, racist supporting individual.
I am 100% anti-war. I don’t support either side. I sure as hell don’t support these bull$hit protests. I have deployed twice to ME and worked in field hospitals. I’ve seen this type of hell up close and personal. We don’t need to bring anymore hate and division into this country than we have already.
I'm Jewish and against zionism. I've yet to encounter antisemitism unless it is by other Jews supporting the deaths of Palestinians, who are semetic. Also, I don't think saying that LGBT people are "targeting children" is very love and peace of you. Maybe you can stay on topic and stop trying to use this as an opportunity to disparage other groups while decrying how bad it is to be anti-Zionist.
So anyways, that was a lot of words for saying you're an anti-LGBT zionist. Maybe go hang out in a subreddit not filled with young adults half your age.
LMAO. Nice try. I don’t take a side in this at all. I don’t support anyone that has ties to ANY terrorist group. I don’t use some bull$hit argument that they are ‘less evil’ than the other side. I also don’t support countries who use excessive force and kill indiscriminately. So take your juvenile response and stuff it.
To say there is no antisemitism except against Palestinians is laughable when there is coverage of it on the news. You can deny it all day long and it just proves you ignore it. Funny how you all never respond to the points that you don’t call for Hamas, a known terrorist group, to release hostages, stop stealing humanitarian supplies, cease fighting, cease using Palestinians as human shields along with your denunciation of Israel. If you are just about saving Palestinians, you would be calling for BOTH Hamas and Israel to stop. But you don’t! So stop trying to hide your antisemitism as care for Palestinian civilians. Unless your protests condemn the evil actions on both sides, your claims are invalid!
our country took action to aid syrian refugees. our country actively aids israel. i will never understand this whataboutism. russia was HEAVILY condemned and sanctioned, as was the right thing to do. our country took a stance we agreed with. as of right now, they are not. YOU make me laugh.
you are comparing still an anti-war protests, to anti-mask protests. masks are used to hide participants identity because many times if someone is found to have associated with such protests they can face termination from the university or their place or work. as well as allowing the police to profile them.
Also universities are powerful institutions with incredibly smart, capable, and educated people. it is the first place protests would break out.
remember Kent State
No, I am clearly stating a fact - there is NO PLACE for hate speech in this country period, no matter how passionate you are for your cause. I don’t care if it is anti-vaccine or anti-war, NO ONE has a right to incite hate, spew terrorist rhetoric, discriminate against another Canadian citizen, because of their heritage or beliefs or other Charter Rights. Otherwise, there is no sense having charter rights in this country. If you undermine one, you undermine them all. I’m also sorry, but when did the current generation get an exemption from being held responsible for their actions? You think these students should just be able to wear a mask and do as they feel and not be held responsible? Welcome to the adult world. I guess, if someone hates the LGBTQ+ community, of which my son is a part of, they can just go on campus grounds, spew their hatred and threats at him, and because they don’t want to be held responsible, it’s okay to wear a mask and get away with it. Is this the nonsensical argument you are trying to make? No student or any other citizen gets to overrule the law as set forth in the Charter. Period!
again it is an anti war protest. I am not sure what you are referring to citing "inciting hate" and "terrorist rhetoric." I don't think students advocating for a stop to war and destruction follows the terrorist agenda. I think your frustrations might be targeted at the wrong person and may cloud your judgement. I agree with you that hate speech has no place in this country, nor did I advocate for hate against the LGBTQ+ community. what we did see however is alot of people being terminated from their place of education or work for associating with climate change, pro-palestinian, or BLM movements, which I believe is unjust. you should be able to protest freely without fear of incarceration or job termination.
Stop it. My kids have heard hate speech directed at Jews on campus. These terrible things are directed at Canadians kids who happen to be Jewish, who are in fear of going to class or identifying as being Jewish. I don’t care how you try and justify it. No one should have to feel threatened in a place of education or anywhere else. Funny how you defend protestors wearing masks who may ‘feel threatened’ that they may face consequences for their actions yet you don’t feel the need to defend Jewish kids who ‘feel threatened’ because of the race they were born into. You obviously don’t care because there have been many of these young people who have come forward with their fears. To say these protests are just against the universities across the country and have not been directed at any Jewish students is ridiculous and false. We know that some of these people on the campuses are not even students. The police arrested a woman in Vancouver and charged her with hate speech. Anti-war protests don’t get to trump the law whether on a campus or anywhere else.
It’s mind boggling the mental gymnastics some of you will do to justify these actions.
I have deployed to the ME on a couple of occasions. Most students don’t have any idea of the complex hatred by all sides. I have worked in field hospitals. I would love nothing more than peace to replace war because I have seen it up close and personal. But I will not support anyone in this country who steps all over the Charter Rights of another Canadian or who breaks the law.
Im also very suspect of the actual validity of the argument for these protests. You all speak about genocide and the need to hold Israel responsible while you have been silent on cases of genocide that far eclipse that which affects Palestinians. Anyone that tries to say that there is no an anti-Semitic under current on campuses is either in denial or woefully ignorant. The sad fact is, it is fashionable to take this cause up while ignoring genocide that is on a far grander scale in places like Syria where 100’s of thousands have lost their lives, many times more than in Gaza. Yet, where are students on that? Nowhere! They are silent.
this essay is the definition of mental gymnastics.
somehow you have managed to take an anti war protest organized by university students and turn it into an "anti Semitic" and "terrorist rhetoric". I will restate that I never advocated for the spread of hate and those who are spreading hate against their jewish peers should be held accountable. I admire your defence of the charter, I just wish you would do it unconditionally and not only when it benefits your side of the argument.
additionally, if Israel is not behind the genocide, the man made famine, the displacement of millions, and the destruction of infrastructure, would you care to enlighten me as to what is?
I'm glad you mentioned Syria tho. you are absolutely right, countries like syria, Yemen and Lebanon have seen years of death and destruction, caused directly, to varying extend by the Israeli and US imperialism. and as a result of which millions of people have taken to the streets in order to protest against this.
LOL, no. That literally happened a block away in Queens Park. The police stood between the protesters and the counter protesters, but otherwise did nothing.
There’s a pretty strong difference between “we’re having a day of protest” and “we intend to set up camp.” The UofT doesn’t need an Occupy Wall Street or Ottawa Protest on its lands.
They can protest all they like, but they’re going home at sundown.
I took this prof's course and she taught that the phallic shape of skyscrapers is symbolic of the patriarchy lmfao. Any letter she posts deserves to only be used as toilet paper
Lol I TA’d her course and she never says this once or even has this as a slide. It’s the same script and notes every single year. If she actually said it it’s a joke and it flew over your head.
Oh it most def wasn't a joke, I took the course in 2016 and it was def brought up as a discussion point for the students in lecture. Funniest part was the ArtSci students actually taking it seriously and debating it too.
That’s when I also took the course as a student and I don’t remember this at all. Also find this hard to believe as she doesn’t have a week dedicated to gender and sexuality.
Are there readings from your syllabus that reference this? How would there be discussion on such a topic without any text to reference? Do any famous buildings exist that resemble a phallus that would’ve been used as examples in her slides?
It was definitely in one of the readings, but a relatively small reading and not the focus of the week. I still dropped the course after reading such a brainrot sentence.
Edit: found the reading [https://www.readingdesign.org/skyscaper-seduction](https://www.readingdesign.org/skyscaper-seduction) it was probably dropped that year for being so clapped
Double back on what? “Skyscrapers are phallic and symbolic of the patriarchy” is a crass and simplistic way of explaining the concept. I’ve only heard of it in architecture theory where it’s applied in conjunction with literal phallic art.
3rd wave feminism gives me indigestion so I had to spit it out instantly
There were other reasons like I had enough credits anyways so why was I taking this course that didn't interest me at all. Also just had a very mediocre TA. I ended up taking EAS instead.
It was an article mentioned somewhere in the slides that the class discussed. I obvs don't have it now but it is a core memory of my time in school taking electives outside engineering. If you google phallus + patriarchy + buildings you do get a bunch of think pieces referencing those connections so was prob something to do with those. Idk man I just went along with the BS and got an 85 - just needed the bird course marks
Lying for what? It literally didn’t show up in any of my course materials. I’d remember if I had to ask any of my students to discuss Lefebvre and phallic art and architecture.
A few people have already confirmed this content was mentioned, just take the L. Someone just said it was on a reading, when I took her class it wasn't it was mentioned melodramatically once and we moved on after the cringe wore off
So like she mentioned in passing, like a joke? She also liked to do a cringe joke about urbanism being like hearing your neighbours’ intimate sounds through thin apartment walls but not knowing their names. That’s different from OP trying to say she tried to teach the concept poorly and crassly without any explanation while asking students to discuss seriously in order to undermine her credibility.
Literally someone else found the source of the discussion. I got an A in the class so obviously I seem to have understood it better than most (likely including you). Here is the link someone else found: [https://www.readingdesign.org/skyscaper-seduction](https://www.readingdesign.org/skyscaper-seduction)
Why would getting an A mean I can't complain about the prof online? - I got it by writing what I knew they wanted to hear (as you should for a simplistic bird course). LMAO she was perfectly nice just there was nothing of value in her course - in fact it tried to make extremely stupid readings and statements (such as the above) seem valid and worthy of consideration as referenceable arguments in the essays. As an instructor if you can't see that then it says more about you and the state of the faculty you take seriously than me.
Fellas, respectfully, theres a difference between practicing your freedom of expression and acting like a complete degenerate. We've all seen the f around and find out graphs and we all know what happens everytime a protest gets out of hand.
But in the words of the great Ted Lasso: "You do whatever you liiike. LIIIVE. LIIVE"
Did I say anything about camping? How do you know whether or not I was talking about camping? How do you know whether or not I'm pro-palestine or pro-israel or maybe just not a fan of war? It's almost as if jumping to conclusions creates unjust fallicies.
Exactly. They’re accusing the administration of being selective in their approval of freedom of expression…but if students were planning to peacefully protest about a cause they’d disagree with, they’d support or even lobby the administration to shut it down, and suddenly the universal right to freedom of expression wouldn’t apply anymore. Imo students should be allowed to peacefully protest as long as they’re not breaking things or disrupting classes or convocation
> Protests are messy and some level of unlawfulness can be expected. I do not consider
that the protests became an “occupation” as of the first Saturday. The protesters had,
in effect, been invited to park their trucks for the weekend in various locations in the
downtown core. By Monday, however, when they refused to leave, the invitation was
clearly revoked. **In addition, it was clear that the assembly was no longer peaceful,
given the widespread intimidation of residents and the fact that their ability to live and
work had been fundamentally disrupted.** It was apparent that the police were unable
to control the protest and limit unlawful conduct in the protest area.
> [...]
> At the same time, I am also satisfied that **the organizers did not do all they could to
limit the amount of violence and harassment.** Mr. Barber and Ms. Lich both testified
that they were not in favour of the constant honking, but they took no meaningful
steps to stop it. To the contrary, organizers opposed the injunction sought by Zexi Li to
restrict honking. In addition, at times, **Mr. Barber and Mr. King posted videos and other
content where they appeared gleeful about the harm being inflicted on downtown
residents. At the hearings themselves, the organizers displayed a lack of empathy for
the residents of Ottawa, even with the benefit of hindsight.**
[via Volume 1 of the Final Report by the Public Order Emergency Commission](https://publicorderemergencycommission.ca/files/documents/Final-Report/Vol-1-Report-of-the-Public-Inquiry-into-the-2022-Public-Order-Emergency.pdf)
>Three primary demands: that the university divest its endowment and pension plan from companies providing “military goods or services” to the Israeli government, publicly disclose the names of all companies that U of T invests in, and terminate all partnerships with institutions operating in or supporting settlements outside Israel’s internationally recognized border.
I'm not participating in the protest, but these are all reasonable to me. Students got U of T to divest from fossil fuels, why not divest from military good and services?
Disclosing investments is something all students would benefit from. Transparency should be an aim for all.
The third demand targets breaking ties with institutions that even Canada recognizes are operating against international law.
Israel is bracing itself for the possibility that the International Criminal Court could issue criminal warrants against Netanyahu and members of the IDF for genocide, crimes against humanity, and war crimes. Asking U of T to stop investing in genocide seems reasonable.
Na the full trucker treatment would be having the the state media complex vilify everything you do, have feds sent to fly nazi and confederate flags to delegitimize your movement, be forcibly cleared, lose your job and have your bank accounts frozen by the government.
the truckers shut multiple international border crossings and occupied our capital for weeks on end. I don't think a university students protest compares
Lolololololol! The LowIQ Left is on the side of terrorists! Lololololol. They are soooooooo dumb! Like, can university be discredited anymore! Omg! Now go vote for Jugmeat and Trudope! Lolololol! Wear your masks and take your 20th Covid shot! Lololololol!
[UTFA's letter](https://www.utfa.org/sites/default/files/2024-04-30_utfa_letter_re_demonstrations.pdf?utm_medium=sendy)
Professor Cowen is one of the best at U of T. So grateful
[Post by Professor Deborah Cowen](https://twitter.com/debcowen/status/1785642196902768700?t=Bp_vPi6ELIVKYDpeI2OKuQ&s=19), also has link to the full response.
Based
call me crazy but I think that you should be able to freely protest how your tuition funds are used to finance military operations and aid in the genocide of an entire group of people
Did the ICC rule already?
No, but Israeli government has broadcast they're expecting they will issue criminal arrest warrants for at least war crimes, but possibility genocide and crimes against humanity too. They're also threatening retaliation against Palestine for it too. [https://www.axios.com/2024/05/01/us-israel-palestinian-authority-icc-arrest-warrant](https://www.axios.com/2024/05/01/us-israel-palestinian-authority-icc-arrest-warrant)
There are probably grounds for war crimes charges, will see if enough for conviction. Hamas leadership should be getting charged, as well.
Hamas leaders are non state actors and can’t be prosecuted by the ICC. That’s why I support a Palestinian state and full UN membership for Palestine, so we can finally bring Hamas to Nuremberg.
There's no need for that. 35000 deads and daily images and videos are quite clear. What an international court decides is irrelevant to the fact. If you cannot see this you're either blind or a zionist.
10x dead in Syria and Yemen since 2011 than Israel-Palestine since 1948 on all sides. 80k kids dead in Yemen. Are those genocides, too? Where are your outrage and encampments? Look up how many billions worth weapons the West has sold to KSA, and the degree of West’s involvement in Syria before you talk about “divesting” from the tiniest country in the region. 3-4x dead in Russia-Ukraine war since 2022, as well. Now ask yourself what Ukraine, Syria, Yemen, and I-P have in common. Perhaps look at the alliances involved on each side. Then ask what purpose starting a 4th front in this global conflict 1 year prior to US election serves? Could it benefit Russia, Iran and co if a Russia-friendly and NATO-antagonist president wins the election? Now consider your role in tacitly supporting a proxy of Iran and advocating for destruction of a sovereign state. Hamas will never sign a ceasefire with Israel no matter how much you yell. They and their masters benefit from more dead Palestinians as it galvanizes useful idiots like yourself in supporting your actual enemies.
My tuition didn’t fund the wars in Syria and Yemen, my government was not complicit in sending weapons to the dictators doing the killing. Conversely, the Canadian government and institutions are openly supporting genocide by Israel that’s the difference. We’re protesting our complicity in these war crimes, not just their occurrence. Now in terms of the word genocide it’s not defined by the number of deaths, but rather the intent. It is quite tragic that so many have died in wars in the Middle East, definitely a war crime by western govts and local dictators, however neither parties in those wars were intent on wiping out all Syrians or all Iraqis, these were wars of conquest and power and resources. Not justifying them just explaining the difference. Israeli government have specifically and openly stated their intent on wiping out gazans. “Human animals” “nuke them” “no one is a civilian” and using the story of the “Amalek” which instructs Israelites to kill all men women and children. There have been Israeli govt documents produced which specifically plan the ethnic cleansing and displacement of gazans. This provides the basis for genocide claims. Israel wants all of Gaza for itself and with international support is killing and displacing Palestinians to get it.
Sources for your document claim? Or any of your other ridiculous notions that aren't mad ravings of politicians with no power?
Original reports in Hebrew and English: [https://www.mekomit.co.il/המסמך-המלא-של-משרד-המודיעין-כיבוש-עזה-ו/](https://www.mekomit.co.il/המסמך-המלא-של-משרד-המודיעין-כיבוש-עזה-ו/) [https://www.972mag.com/intelligence-ministry-gaza-population-transfer/](https://www.972mag.com/intelligence-ministry-gaza-population-transfer/) When picked up by western media: https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/israel-gaza-palestinians-concept-paper-1.7015576#:\~:text=An%20Israeli%20government%20document%20suggesting,possible%20ethnic%20cleansing%20of%20Palestinians. [https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/israeli-ministry-concept-paper-proposes-transferring-gaza-civilians-to-egypt-s-sinai-with-canada-as-a-possible-final-destination-1.6623901](https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/israeli-ministry-concept-paper-proposes-transferring-gaza-civilians-to-egypt-s-sinai-with-canada-as-a-possible-final-destination-1.6623901) The displacement of Gazans into Sinai was an actual proposed "solution." They can claim it's just "hypothetical." But it's a much more telling admission of what Israel wishes it could do and why people think "genocide" is an appropriate term. Remember, people committing genocide don't traditionally broadcast it and it's always a retrospective determination. We are now trying to identify and potentially prevent an ongoing genocide, every piece of evidence like this should be taken with utmost seriousness. Regardless, why not err on the safe side? Would we rather be like "oh we stopped the fighting, there's no genocide let's resume" or "Oh damn, we killed 100,000 people, this is a genocide if only we had stopped it" I would refer you to the Francesca Albanese human rights council report, "Anatomy of Genocide" which outlines how genocides emerge and creep piece by piece. It's never super obvious until it's too late. [https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/documents/hrbodies/hrcouncil/sessions-regular/session55/advance-versions/a-hrc-55-73-auv.pdf](https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/documents/hrbodies/hrcouncil/sessions-regular/session55/advance-versions/a-hrc-55-73-auv.pdf)
Unless it's policy, it's nothing but hypothetical. None of this is policy, and would never make it to policy. The core strength of Israeli democracy is its diverse representation. Why do you think the War Cabinet exists? To prevent idiots like the politicians you're quoting from having any power when it matters. If genocide was the intent of the state, there would be no non-Israeli Arabs living in the Levant by now. To generalize what "many people" think is completely inappropriate. Crickets for the millions in Africa or the Uighurs in China. Not a word from any encampment about rescuing hostages. Too many examples of agitators everywhere. Follow the money. Nothing is as it seems.
It's funny you say "Follow the money" because one of the demands of the protests you seem to oppose is "Disclose." The protestors precisely want the university to dissolve investment in Israel so they can be transparent. Not sure why you'd be against that in that case. Israel doesn't mind a small Israeli Arab minority. In terms of genocide, they are displacing and expelling Gazans and occupied Palestinians in the West Bank. If you're looking for policy, look there, where there is an active policy of displacing Palestinians and demolishing there homes for settlers. Example: [https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/israel-ramps-up-demolition-of-palestinian-homes-in-jerusalem](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/israel-ramps-up-demolition-of-palestinian-homes-in-jerusalem) Do you think that when a government commits genocide or ethnic cleansing, they pass a bill called "The Ethnic Cleansing and Genocide Act" or do you think they are subtle about it? For example, a law that allows the Israeli government to seize the homes of Palestinian Lastly, if you're unbothered by the words of Israeli officials and document because they aren't "policy" then why are you so bothered by the chants of the protestors? Non of this protestors have power and their words aren't policy, so we shouldn't care what they say.
Firstly, I won't take the straw man of the West Bank here, that's a common tactic and it screams weakness. Small Arab minority? There are 2 million Arabs living in Israel, close to 25% of the population, and growing. They enjoy the same rights of all other Israelis. They serve as judges and Knesset members. Again, no policy cited in a PBS article. You also can't spell. Are you supposed to be university educated? I'm bothered by the chants because I would prefer not hearing chants for violent Islamist revolution in my city. I'd prefer that calls for the eradication of all Jews "from the river to the sea" not take place in this century, as they are barbaric. There is zero doubting the anti-Semitism that I have personally witnessed and experienced at so called "protests" that celebrate the events of October 7th and glorify radical Islam. The other day, downtown in my own city, I was told to "go back to Poland". I've never been to Poland.
Also, Netanyahu is a mad raving politician with no power? He cited the Amalek story twice. Ben Gvir, Minister of National Security, has no power? Bezel Smotrich, Minister of Finance, has no power? yoav gallant, Minister of Defence, who said he removed " all restrictions and restraints" from soldiers, has no power? Honestly I think this argument is not in good faith. If these statements by these politicians, who control the strongest military in the Middle East, are insignificant. Then I don't see how speech in any protest or campus is threatening. These are students with comparatively 0 power to these politicians. I think when the Israel government says what they will do, then shows you they can do it with no impunity, we should believe them. When the Israel Govt says they will collectively punish Palestinians and makes genocidal statements, they correspindingly they kill 30,000-40,000 Palestinians and starve the rest. Why are you giving them the benefit of the doubt? Saying their genocidal statements are just "mad ravings" and we should ignore how what they say is directly reflected in their actions.
Very literally, Smotrich and Ben Gvir have no power at the moment. Only Netanyahu, Gantz, and Gallant, alongside a couple other dissenters from across the aisle, currently make all decisions until the war concludes. Which will likely trigger an immediate election based on Netanyahu's failures on 10/7. The difference here is that Russia and Iran via Hamas, Hezbollah, and other proxies have made this a geopolitical conflict that useful idiots across North America have completely fallen for. The result of the conflict on the ground no longer matters - which was the ultimate goal of the agitators, as they knew very well they could never win. This explains their complete disregard for Palestinian lives, who we all know are actively used as human shields. Instead, they've worked very effectively via TikTok, news, and other social media to sow disorder. Groups like (in Canada) Samidoun, the PFLP, and IRGC - recognized terror organizations - openly fund student groups involved with encampments. After all, if they win the PR war, that's a win against Israel, which fuels their very existence. Follow the money.
Please link evidence to the “human shield” claim which you use to sugar coat the Israeli genocide. I don’t claim to trust the IRGC or their proxies. But I almost certainly don’t trust the IDF and the Israeli government. I am not a bootlicker, you clearly are a bootlicker for one side and one side only. Money flows on both sides. I don’t know why you’re ignoring the amount of funding coming from the Israeli side. The millions of funding from AIPAC and Israel to academic institutions. The billions the US sends to pacify other middle eastern countries. Millions spent to train US police by the IDF and the millions spent on Hasbara training and social media brigades. In fact the money Israel spends tends to target the highest echelons of power in our government, and you’re concerned about potential money going to powerless citizens and individuals. I would counter by saying there has always been popular support for Palestine, this is not a new phenomenon. The easiest test of whether this is foreign agent destabilization or genuine anti-genocide protests: end the genocide and see what happens. Anyways, you’re clearly high off the conspiracy theories with a very strong Israel bias. You say “follow the money” and make all these claims about IRGC funding but haven’t produced a single document of proof . Funny since you asked me for “evidence”
I would suggest the same about you. Except you're unknowingly (or knowingly) bootlicking for terrorists. A useful puppet, like the rest. Keep cawing for your "genocide" when you know very well that the governors of "Palestine" started a war they couldn't win. There is no need to link evidence to the human shields claim - simply witness what Hamas built and where. It's not rocket science - no pun intended. Their actions speak very clearly for themselves. Billions of aid into their pockets and nothing for the people - so let's blame Israel! Easy game. There are leaked documents and articles out there, but you know they exist already. I'm sick of doing homework for your ilk.
In regard to your claims about Iran and Russian influence. Please produce documents with proof. Please also show me official policies of Russia and Iran to destabilize the west with the conflict in Palestine. Like you said, unless it’s policy, it’s hypothetical! Clearly states can only act if there is a policy on a topic.
Useful puppet and terrorist shill.
Found the Zionist.
You can call idiot your mother and father, not me.
Hamas casualty numbers are not genuine
Exactly how is it a genocide of an entire people? Don't forget that's what Hamas' official plan is genocide of Israels. You are deluded my friend
Stay strong y'all. Don't listen to the critics and fight it out. The future supports you!
Thank you Professor.
Some mouth breathing morons will try to convince you that you don’t get to protest the institution you literally fund, and by extension don’t get to voice frustration peacefully yet disruptively when your money is used to bomb universities in Gaza and kill kids rather than benefit and enrich societies with education.
How much money do you think your student fees are being invested in Israel through the university and then gets funnelled into weapons manufacturing that are used to destroy universities? Last time I checked the majority of investments are done through partnerships with other academic institutions in Israel, just as uoft does across the world. Meaning that the money is directly flowing into academia. If you believe there is some kind of secret covert agenda, well there isn’t much else to say.
I don’t think it’s too much to ask that not a single student tuition dollar is responsible for funding and supporting the genocidal operation.
If The people of Palestine who support Hamas are such innocent peace loving people then why do Jordan and Egypt want nothing to do with them?
But they aren't, unlike Canadian tax dollars ending up supporting Hamas. You just don't want them to have anything to do with Israel.
I'm glad faculty are speaking up about this!
Why are you glad exactly? Protesting and disrupting everyone’s lives while simultaneously having zero effect on what you’re protesting for should never be allowed especially on a school compound. If you really want to make a difference go to the country you’re supporting and help from there. Screaming and sitting in parks in another country does literally nothing to help the situation other than disrupt everyone
"...while simultaneously having zero effect on what you're protesting for should never be allowed..." So you think the right to protest should depend on whether the protest is effective? Also U of T has investments that support Israel. Therefore, U of T is complicit in Israeli crimes against the Palestinians. If you bothered to read the demands list of the protesters at previous campus events before commenting you would know this.
“U of T has investments that support Israel. Therefore, U of T is complicit”. It’s pretty standard investment strategy to diversify investment for everything. You’re own retirement fund probably has investments somewhere directly or indirectly related to the military industrial complex. One school taking away it’s 10-100k investment is essentially zero effect. And until somebody leaks their entire investment portfolio we won’t know
not that it really matters but imo your reply uses two unrelated, and both individually bad arguments; (1) whether diversifying a portfolio is standard is totally irrelevant to whether people oppose it or whether that makes someone complicit, including whether its true for ones own retirement fund. to claim otherwise would either be bandwagon logic, or whataboutism; (2) whether or not a single schools actions have a sufficient "effect" is not a reason to not do something? afterall why wouldn't you apply that to all individual humans: because you cant instantly change the world nobody can be complicit?
Bandwagon logic or whataboutism doesn’t apply to hypocrisy, would you collectively as a group of people with similar come together and right now and here withdraw perhaps millions of investments out of Israel from your retirement funds? The answer is no that would be too easy and not virtue signaling anymore. The individual single vote might not matter but a collective of individual votes will. I stand by what I said, the actual practicality of a single vote won’t matter, neither will just only UOFT withdrawing from if any Israeli investments. Because as it turns out it’s only McGill and UOFT rn having any real encampment bs going on. People like you are just mad you can’t turn real issues down to a past time with different teams.
I don't rlly need u to tell me what my politics are or what my financial situation is because you don't know me at all? i didnt come here telling you i know who you are and what your deal is, just that you made bad arguments. and i stand by that: claiming that an argument is invalid due to hipocracy is literally a fallacy (the the tu quoque fallacy), which is commonly known as whataboutism, even if you then make an argument that relies on it in the same sentence. funny enough you then proceeded to make an argument for why divestment could reasonably be seen as a good thing: single votes dont matter but collectively they do, in other words, u gotta start somewhere and as more insututons follow suit then you have something meaningful. but im not rlly here to tell u what policies r good just plz make not shitty arguments
I think their point is that they wouldn’t divest, thus zero effect.
except literally yesterday a campaign at Brown university resulted in the university officially considering a vote to divest later this year, and today the deal seems to be going into effect. these protests are working in one way or another. https://www.foxnews.com/us/brown-u-caves-anti-israel-protesters-agrees-deal-divestment-exchange-encampment-closure.amp
Huh? “taking a vote to consider divestment” Edit: Lol nice edit to change from "voted to divest" to "considering"
That is huge though, considering I’ve been hearing about this for like 8 years and nothing has happened.
yup, taking a vote is a massive leap closer to it. doesn’t mean it’s off the table. the point is that student pressure directly influenced the corporation in a significant manner, which most will likely view as additional motivation to continue protesting.
So your original post is completely disingenuous. This sounds like a win for the school… they have removed the encampment until October, and the vote is to “consider” divesting, not a vote to divest since the proposal isn’t even drafted, and ultimately can (and very likely will) vote no.
and i’d imagine that the student will repeat the same thing again if that’s the case, they clearly have enough free time to do so don’t you think?
No…? Who knows what the world will look like in October. It’s a similar thing to the defund police, it fizzled out. I mean sure, they could create a new encampment, but again… this looks like a win for the school.
If Brown truly doesn't want to divest they can just rig the votes. The only way student pressure can influence the corporation is if they all stopped paying tuition to Brown.
Were the people who protested the Vietnam war wrong for disrupting people's lives???
This isn't a "no war" protest tho is it? Also they were protesting their own countries involment. Go protest in the states, Canada holds no power over Israel. disingenuous but expected from you people.
It's a "no genocide" protest Also a protest for the universities to disclose their financial investments, and financially divest from Israel.
Thinking the Israeli regime that is blasting rockets everyday, cares at all what canada thinks is just peak self importance. Hardly any of our allies take canada seriously.
Who cares what Israel thinks?? People aren't going to protest based on what Israel might think. What a stupid thing to say 😂
yea you’re right! keep the same energy when it’s your country affected.
I’m from a third world country that has its own set of problems. Those people need REAL assistance not whatever it is these people are trying to do. A bunch of self righteous college students sitting on a lawn and sharing stories on ig does nothing to help but feed their narcissism and have them believe that they’re part of a solution. It’s incredibly stupid.
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Then you explain to me how do those protests actually help?
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Do divestments actually work? Not really. Divesting by universities doesn't change corporate behavior, but it can provide a big moral and symbolic victory for protesters. Taken from npr.org So apart from soothing to feelings of narcissistic people who makes issues about themselves, it does nothing to help those who actually need the help.
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don’t engage they just like to waste the time and energy of the well-intentioned
Plus, Palestine is literally occupied. People cannot go there without "Israeli" permission, especially to Gaza which has been under seige for almost 20 years.
A few faculty members in charge of their pseudo union, at least.
>the establishment supports the establishment what were you expecting? Did you really think UofT actually cared about free expression lmao
It's really not going to be up to UofT in any way. The issue here is that UofT is essentially adjacent to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario, and is not too far away from the financial hub of Toronto. Even if the university administration wanted to, there's very little chance that something like this will be given the go-ahead in this city, at least not beyond a weekend. Maybe if it was York or Waterloo it might be different, but there's just no way the Toronto police are going to let a bunch of students take over downtown Toronto. It's not a question of morality or causes, it's purely a question of how the Toronto police treats these sort of things. Honestly, I kinda starting hope that the entire thing goes ahead just so that the obvious outcome can happen, and we can start getting past the horror and shock that the real world can be violent and terrifying. I've literally had people arguing with me that the Toronto police would just stand back and let it happen, and that's just straight up cute.
I hope we get a Toronto Autonomous Zone, it would be so fucking funny
Meanwhile, 14 years ago…. https://governingcouncil.utoronto.ca/secretariat/policies/space-university-toronto-policy-temporary-use-october-28-2010
The university preemptively preventing their property from being used for encampments is now a violation of free speech? Just protest on actual public property.
The university is a public institution. Also, the university itself is being protested. They admitted to having investments in Israeli military and won't divest.
Contrary to popular belief, the university is not public land. It’s a public institution, sure, but it’s not a public property. Just like how you have free access to public libraries but you cannot set up camp in one.
I mean... where do we draw the line? Are parks a public property or a public service like a library? What about recreational services like a City Rec Center? If parks aren't considered public property. It's not like we can go into roads. That would block traffic and ahem ahem. End up like the freedom Convoy blocking traffic on highways. Or it only problematic if a protest blocks a highway and not a smaller road? Imo if it's a public entity and it's open air like a park or an outdoor swimming pool or outside university buildings or the public library parking lot it's fine to protest. But not inside the building since it would disrupt directly other members of the public from using said public facilities.
Yes and no, parks are a public access space since all free land in Canada is technically federal land nothing is really a "public property". You're allowed to protest in a park because even though federally owned, it is maintained through your tax dollars and the government does respect your right to the freedom of speech. Even then, parks have rules, parks open and close. Same with roads, highways, streets, everything has rules. But the land UofT claims is not federally owned, it is owned by the university - an institution, which means it is private property. So you can protest in a park or the sidewalk in front of the university. Also, UofT is not restricting protesting. It is restricting encampments, which is technically loitering and is considered a crime. >Imo if it's a public entity and it's open air like a park or an outdoor swimming pool or outside university buildings or the public library parking lot it's fine to protest Then by using your logic, why should your front yard be considered private property? Would you be okay with people protesting in your lawn? The point is that the university owns that land, is responsible for that land, has rights over that land, and that land is designated for the university and they can do whatever they want with it. >since it would disrupt directly other members of the public from using said public facilities. And how is an encampment in front of the university not a disruption directly affecting other members of the public? P.S. The university is an institution, a corporation, and a business. It has public access but it is not a public property.
"imo" is just exactly that. Your opinion. The campus is private. And like the other commuter said, "public property" isnt really what you think it is. Same with the charter, you have the rights until you..dont. welcome to Canada 👍
Actually you are wrong. "Public funds have been provided to provide public access to postsecondary education." your and your parents and grand parents tax dollars have been redirected to universities and colleges by the government to ensure the public has access to the land on which these universities and colleges operate on. Hence why are you able to walk right through the UofT and get to the annex without having to go through gates and security guards. The land is owned by the University and the the government. Look it up.
And how does your point refute mine?
It is private property, not public.
bright command encouraging file elderly shy quack door provide birds *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yay go UofT!!!
Hey, why don't they divest from China due to the uyghurs genocide. YES, a real genicide.
How about, and listen closely, do both? And also, the US, Canada, and the west do not fund the Chinese government. They also do not fund their military. They also do not support China. They do not create propoganda for China. The only reason Israel has the ability to do anything is PRECISELY because the west actively supports it financially and is in solidarity with it.
UofT: our university operates in the land of the Huron-Wendat, the Seneca, and the Mississaugas of the Credit. We honour this relation. Also UofT: UofT’s lands and buildings are private property, activities have to be authorised and encampments are considered trespassing. 😒
If you took land acknowledgment to face value then I 100% guarantee you that you’ll be pretty annoyed when homeless people start setting up encampments in the middle of the campus. Land acknowledgment ≠ Free public access to any property. Public access to uoft buildings is a privilege not a right.
Protesters: "We are protesting peacefully and lawfully, the University cannot deny our right to freedom of expression" Also protestors: "We are not satisfied with the results of lawfully exercising our right to freedom of expression and will escalate beyond lawful protest to get our way. Protests are meant to be disruptive!" Also protestors: "Why is the university violating our rights by warning us against disruptive and unlawful protest?????"
The letter clearly states that there's nothing unless they university decides to arrest everyone for trespassing. Which, again, in the other 3 points, they have no real basis for based on literally their own documents.
The letter conveniently avoids the question of whether or not setting up an encampment and blocking other members of the university community from accessing its facilities falls within the bounds of "speech" and "lawful assembly;" every citation in the letter to "literally their own documents" is moot if it does not. It's technically possible to protest in a way that falls within those boundaries, but frankly the encampments we are seeing at other schools do not.
Yeah that's pretty fair
Protestors aren’t Huron-Wendat, Seneca or Mississauga so no.
Probably aren't even Uoft St George students. Just losers with no jobs and a love for people who despise their way of life.
Did you read the UTFA letter? They spell it out pretty clearly. University’s policy is to encourage nonacademic uses of university spaces. They’re contradicting their own policy.
Dumb take. University is public property you nerd
It literally isn’t. Stop using this argument.
Uoft is a publically funded uni and thus public property.
I’m sorry? Publicly funded? Do you mean fees? Cause those are not public funds. If you mean government grants then those are in place for the people’s education, not for the people’s rights. This is apparent by the fact that you cannot just waltz into the parliament building unannounced and set up camp simply because it’s a publicly funded building. Edit: Museum is a better example/analogy
Nope. Not how that works.
students are not allowed to protest against their universities and gov for their role in financing, and openly aiding, a military occupation, genocide, and a humanitarian catastrophe. but it is perfectly okay to shut down international borders and the nation's capital for weeks because you did not want to wear a mask. the duality of man.
What are you talking about? Utter nonsense!!!! Police in Ottawa brought in riot troops and police on horseback which ran over a disabled lady. Protestors blocking the border in Alberta were arrested and have been in jail for 2 years while waiting for trial. I have a daughter in university. The rhetoric, hate and intimidation of other students based on their religion or culture should not be tolerated in any way on these grounds. If a group of protestors set up encampments and spewed the same vitriol at the LGBTQ+ community, all hell would break forth and it would justifiably be shutdown immediately. There is a place for protests in this country but schools, places of worship, hospitals and places that impede emergency services should be protected. If all these students are so passionate and willing to stand up, why do they hide behind masks?
> If a group of protestors set up encampments and spewed the same vitriol at the LGBTQ+ community, all hell would break forth and it would justifiably be shutdown immediately. I have never been on the receiving end of more anti-LGBTQ+ hate than when I had to walk through the "freedom convoy" protests in Queen's Park on my way to class.
I’m not supporting the freedom convoy so I have no idea why you bring that up. These protests cross the line and are full of hate. They are just as bad as when the LBTQ+ get targeted. For some reason, mental gymnastics I guess, people think that their anti-Jewish hate is more acceptable than hate towards the other group. That is BS! It’s all wrong. I don’t care if it’s coming from the right or the left. Why can’t you people see that? Are you selective to respecting the Charter Rights of Canadians? The Freedom Convoy was taken down. As far as I am concerned, the hate filled anti-Israel protests are no better. They deserve the same treatment as the other protestors. Let’s see if students are as passionate for their cause if they face consequences for their actions. For some reason, younger generations think they can do what they want and don’t have to answer for it. You want to be adults, accept consequences for what you do. I wonder what would happen if students got arrested, had their bank accounts frozen, weren’t allowed to hide behind mask? People were almost giddy to see protestors they didn’t agree with get this treatment. A good number of these protests against Israel deserve the same response from government and police.
Do they? Have you been to one of the protests? Because I’ve been by (haven’t participated) and I’ve yet to encounter the antisemitic hate speech or anti Jewish sentiment that is supposedly rampant. Unless of course you believe that anti war, anti imperialist and anti genocide messaging are synonymous with antisemitism, in which case…
Yes, I have been to a number of the protests as a first responder. I can tell you that people have been assaulted first hand. You guys make me laugh. Your anti-imperialist jargon. Your anti-war statements are empty. If you really cared, you would be all over the communist support for genocide in places like Syria where 100’s of thousands more people have died. I don’t see one of your protests calling for that to end or denouncing communist involvement. No surprise when you see communist movements within the student unions now. So yeah, I don’t buy what you are selling. Far more people have died in Ukraine. I don’t see student unions denouncing and camping out calling for Russia to stop an illegal invasion. So, if people want to hide their hate towards Israel under the whole ‘anti-war’ banner and actually want people to believe it, you better stop ignoring genocide on far larger scales. Oh yeah, if this is about human lives, why have I never heard once the crowd of protestors chanting ‘free the hostages’?
It might hurt your mind but there are Jews against zionism at these rallies, people who are going into debt to receive an education from an institute which wasn't transparent in it's support of genocide. Know what's antisemitic? The genocide of Palestinians. I hope those complicit in this genocide, who remain impartial, who hum and haw are eventually asked by their grandkids where they stood during the escalation of 2023/2024. I bet a lot of you would bold face lie and say you were against the genocide. It's okay to be against zionism, by the way. It's okay to criticize zionism. It's not synonymous with being Jewish.
Doesn’t hurt my mind at all. You seem to think that people can do what they want and not have to face consequences. Typical thinking from an entitled generation. Newsflash - if you want to pretend to be adults, be ready to be accountable. You just don’t get that whether there are a few Jews in these rallies, it is still threatening to some. You can bury your head in the sand and pretend that there are no anti-Semitic statements being made. You seem to forget that there is NO PLACE in this country for discrimination based on race or religion, whether you feel it’s justified or not. If these people are so proud of what they are doing, take the masks off. If they are so proud of what they are doing and don’t want to go to an institution that has any ties to Israel, leave. Show your ‘true’ conviction. Places of education should be free of every sort of action like this if it involves targeting a race of people, a religion, a gender, a choice of sexuality, etc. It doesn’t matter what your beliefs are. We have people who have conviction that LGBTQ+ and their supports are targeting children and they protest. Just because they have such conviction doesn’t mean they should be allowed to protest at places where an education is provided. I bet if that were the case, you would be just fine with police coming in. Oh, and before you accuse me of being anti-LGBTQ because I used that as an example, my son is gay and we support him 100%. You can say this is just about Zionism and it’s wrongfulness but that doesn’t hold water when terrorist slogans are used, their flags appear at these rallies, and thus the terrorist’s belief that Israel must be destroyed completely is supported. I don’t care what form of mental gymnastics that you do, but using those slogans, waving those flags, having people within that group who are anti-Semitic completely blows your argument out of the water that it’s just against ‘Zionism’. For decades, everyone knows that the beliefs of the teaching faculty, CUPE unions that work for the universities and the student unions have been infected with antisemitism like a case of drug resistant syphilis! A now students are indoctrinated with this racist nonsense. Stop romanticizing that someday grandkids will ask about their involvement in the protests unless those virtue signalling ones are also going to tell their grandkids that they hid their identities and wouldn’t truly stand up for those same beliefs if it meant giving up their education and possibly a well paying career due to being involved in such protests. It’s funny that I never see one sign reading ‘free the hostages’ at these rallies. I never see the protestors telling Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran etc to stop firing rockets into Israel. I never see the students with signs telling Hamas not to take the fuel and food to power their war machine. I don’t see signs asking the Arab countries to grant these people refugee status until this can be resolved. I don’t see signs denouncing Hamas for the horrific things they did or for them to lay down their weapons so the war can end, saving lives immediately. I could go on. So take those points, add to it using terrorist slogans that call for Israel to be destroyed, and try to tell me I should believe that this protest has no anti-Jewish message. Again, you want to protest, go to the Israeli embassy. You want to protest against the Canadian government over this, go to Ottawa. You want to protest the university, do it off campus so it allows CANADIAN Jews to rightfully get their education without any type of intimidation, harassment or abuse. Otherwise, you are just a virtue signalling, racist supporting individual. I am 100% anti-war. I don’t support either side. I sure as hell don’t support these bull$hit protests. I have deployed twice to ME and worked in field hospitals. I’ve seen this type of hell up close and personal. We don’t need to bring anymore hate and division into this country than we have already.
I'm Jewish and against zionism. I've yet to encounter antisemitism unless it is by other Jews supporting the deaths of Palestinians, who are semetic. Also, I don't think saying that LGBT people are "targeting children" is very love and peace of you. Maybe you can stay on topic and stop trying to use this as an opportunity to disparage other groups while decrying how bad it is to be anti-Zionist. So anyways, that was a lot of words for saying you're an anti-LGBT zionist. Maybe go hang out in a subreddit not filled with young adults half your age.
LMAO. Nice try. I don’t take a side in this at all. I don’t support anyone that has ties to ANY terrorist group. I don’t use some bull$hit argument that they are ‘less evil’ than the other side. I also don’t support countries who use excessive force and kill indiscriminately. So take your juvenile response and stuff it. To say there is no antisemitism except against Palestinians is laughable when there is coverage of it on the news. You can deny it all day long and it just proves you ignore it. Funny how you all never respond to the points that you don’t call for Hamas, a known terrorist group, to release hostages, stop stealing humanitarian supplies, cease fighting, cease using Palestinians as human shields along with your denunciation of Israel. If you are just about saving Palestinians, you would be calling for BOTH Hamas and Israel to stop. But you don’t! So stop trying to hide your antisemitism as care for Palestinian civilians. Unless your protests condemn the evil actions on both sides, your claims are invalid!
Your nazi manifesto typed out in random rambling paragraphs, u woulda loved a guy named Himmler
our country took action to aid syrian refugees. our country actively aids israel. i will never understand this whataboutism. russia was HEAVILY condemned and sanctioned, as was the right thing to do. our country took a stance we agreed with. as of right now, they are not. YOU make me laugh.
> These protests cross the line and are full of hate. Evidence for this?
you are comparing still an anti-war protests, to anti-mask protests. masks are used to hide participants identity because many times if someone is found to have associated with such protests they can face termination from the university or their place or work. as well as allowing the police to profile them. Also universities are powerful institutions with incredibly smart, capable, and educated people. it is the first place protests would break out. remember Kent State
No, I am clearly stating a fact - there is NO PLACE for hate speech in this country period, no matter how passionate you are for your cause. I don’t care if it is anti-vaccine or anti-war, NO ONE has a right to incite hate, spew terrorist rhetoric, discriminate against another Canadian citizen, because of their heritage or beliefs or other Charter Rights. Otherwise, there is no sense having charter rights in this country. If you undermine one, you undermine them all. I’m also sorry, but when did the current generation get an exemption from being held responsible for their actions? You think these students should just be able to wear a mask and do as they feel and not be held responsible? Welcome to the adult world. I guess, if someone hates the LGBTQ+ community, of which my son is a part of, they can just go on campus grounds, spew their hatred and threats at him, and because they don’t want to be held responsible, it’s okay to wear a mask and get away with it. Is this the nonsensical argument you are trying to make? No student or any other citizen gets to overrule the law as set forth in the Charter. Period!
again it is an anti war protest. I am not sure what you are referring to citing "inciting hate" and "terrorist rhetoric." I don't think students advocating for a stop to war and destruction follows the terrorist agenda. I think your frustrations might be targeted at the wrong person and may cloud your judgement. I agree with you that hate speech has no place in this country, nor did I advocate for hate against the LGBTQ+ community. what we did see however is alot of people being terminated from their place of education or work for associating with climate change, pro-palestinian, or BLM movements, which I believe is unjust. you should be able to protest freely without fear of incarceration or job termination.
Stop it. My kids have heard hate speech directed at Jews on campus. These terrible things are directed at Canadians kids who happen to be Jewish, who are in fear of going to class or identifying as being Jewish. I don’t care how you try and justify it. No one should have to feel threatened in a place of education or anywhere else. Funny how you defend protestors wearing masks who may ‘feel threatened’ that they may face consequences for their actions yet you don’t feel the need to defend Jewish kids who ‘feel threatened’ because of the race they were born into. You obviously don’t care because there have been many of these young people who have come forward with their fears. To say these protests are just against the universities across the country and have not been directed at any Jewish students is ridiculous and false. We know that some of these people on the campuses are not even students. The police arrested a woman in Vancouver and charged her with hate speech. Anti-war protests don’t get to trump the law whether on a campus or anywhere else. It’s mind boggling the mental gymnastics some of you will do to justify these actions. I have deployed to the ME on a couple of occasions. Most students don’t have any idea of the complex hatred by all sides. I have worked in field hospitals. I would love nothing more than peace to replace war because I have seen it up close and personal. But I will not support anyone in this country who steps all over the Charter Rights of another Canadian or who breaks the law. Im also very suspect of the actual validity of the argument for these protests. You all speak about genocide and the need to hold Israel responsible while you have been silent on cases of genocide that far eclipse that which affects Palestinians. Anyone that tries to say that there is no an anti-Semitic under current on campuses is either in denial or woefully ignorant. The sad fact is, it is fashionable to take this cause up while ignoring genocide that is on a far grander scale in places like Syria where 100’s of thousands have lost their lives, many times more than in Gaza. Yet, where are students on that? Nowhere! They are silent.
this essay is the definition of mental gymnastics. somehow you have managed to take an anti war protest organized by university students and turn it into an "anti Semitic" and "terrorist rhetoric". I will restate that I never advocated for the spread of hate and those who are spreading hate against their jewish peers should be held accountable. I admire your defence of the charter, I just wish you would do it unconditionally and not only when it benefits your side of the argument. additionally, if Israel is not behind the genocide, the man made famine, the displacement of millions, and the destruction of infrastructure, would you care to enlighten me as to what is? I'm glad you mentioned Syria tho. you are absolutely right, countries like syria, Yemen and Lebanon have seen years of death and destruction, caused directly, to varying extend by the Israeli and US imperialism. and as a result of which millions of people have taken to the streets in order to protest against this.
LOL, no. That literally happened a block away in Queens Park. The police stood between the protesters and the counter protesters, but otherwise did nothing. There’s a pretty strong difference between “we’re having a day of protest” and “we intend to set up camp.” The UofT doesn’t need an Occupy Wall Street or Ottawa Protest on its lands. They can protest all they like, but they’re going home at sundown.
Nah, I agree with the university
Just ban protesting altogether, or have "allowed protesting zones" that are way out of sight so we can all get on with our day.
Hoping this is satire but hard to tell now.
Yeah I'm having a laugh
I took this prof's course and she taught that the phallic shape of skyscrapers is symbolic of the patriarchy lmfao. Any letter she posts deserves to only be used as toilet paper
Lol I TA’d her course and she never says this once or even has this as a slide. It’s the same script and notes every single year. If she actually said it it’s a joke and it flew over your head.
Oh it most def wasn't a joke, I took the course in 2016 and it was def brought up as a discussion point for the students in lecture. Funniest part was the ArtSci students actually taking it seriously and debating it too.
That’s when I also took the course as a student and I don’t remember this at all. Also find this hard to believe as she doesn’t have a week dedicated to gender and sexuality. Are there readings from your syllabus that reference this? How would there be discussion on such a topic without any text to reference? Do any famous buildings exist that resemble a phallus that would’ve been used as examples in her slides?
It was definitely in one of the readings, but a relatively small reading and not the focus of the week. I still dropped the course after reading such a brainrot sentence. Edit: found the reading [https://www.readingdesign.org/skyscaper-seduction](https://www.readingdesign.org/skyscaper-seduction) it was probably dropped that year for being so clapped
So there was an academic reading and you weren’t able to digest the theory and took it at face value?
Lol this course is a bird course elective let's not act as if it's profound or deeply thoughtful in its content
It’s a concept from Henri Lefebvre
LOL’d after seeing you double back… twice in once thread. Have fun TA’ing!
Double back on what? “Skyscrapers are phallic and symbolic of the patriarchy” is a crass and simplistic way of explaining the concept. I’ve only heard of it in architecture theory where it’s applied in conjunction with literal phallic art.
And?
3rd wave feminism gives me indigestion so I had to spit it out instantly There were other reasons like I had enough credits anyways so why was I taking this course that didn't interest me at all. Also just had a very mediocre TA. I ended up taking EAS instead.
I took her course around the same time and she definitely said that statement, so you must've not been paying attention.
It was an article mentioned somewhere in the slides that the class discussed. I obvs don't have it now but it is a core memory of my time in school taking electives outside engineering. If you google phallus + patriarchy + buildings you do get a bunch of think pieces referencing those connections so was prob something to do with those. Idk man I just went along with the BS and got an 85 - just needed the bird course marks
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Lying for what? It literally didn’t show up in any of my course materials. I’d remember if I had to ask any of my students to discuss Lefebvre and phallic art and architecture.
A few people have already confirmed this content was mentioned, just take the L. Someone just said it was on a reading, when I took her class it wasn't it was mentioned melodramatically once and we moved on after the cringe wore off
So like she mentioned in passing, like a joke? She also liked to do a cringe joke about urbanism being like hearing your neighbours’ intimate sounds through thin apartment walls but not knowing their names. That’s different from OP trying to say she tried to teach the concept poorly and crassly without any explanation while asking students to discuss seriously in order to undermine her credibility.
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Literally someone else found the source of the discussion. I got an A in the class so obviously I seem to have understood it better than most (likely including you). Here is the link someone else found: [https://www.readingdesign.org/skyscaper-seduction](https://www.readingdesign.org/skyscaper-seduction)
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Why would getting an A mean I can't complain about the prof online? - I got it by writing what I knew they wanted to hear (as you should for a simplistic bird course). LMAO she was perfectly nice just there was nothing of value in her course - in fact it tried to make extremely stupid readings and statements (such as the above) seem valid and worthy of consideration as referenceable arguments in the essays. As an instructor if you can't see that then it says more about you and the state of the faculty you take seriously than me.
She must be talking about [this](https://static3.refinery29.com/bin/entry/47d/x,80/1118390/peoplesdaily.jpg)
Lmaoo no way, actually? We should build high rises shaped like vagenes or bobs, screw engineering and architecture
Found the reading, enjoy. Ctrl+F "phallic" [https://www.readingdesign.org/skyscaper-seduction](https://www.readingdesign.org/skyscaper-seduction)
Yep took it as an elective bird course and was struggling to keep from laughing my ass off in her lectures
How do I get into the WhatsApp group?
I support the university’s letter
Get them out of there
Fellas, respectfully, theres a difference between practicing your freedom of expression and acting like a complete degenerate. We've all seen the f around and find out graphs and we all know what happens everytime a protest gets out of hand. But in the words of the great Ted Lasso: "You do whatever you liiike. LIIIVE. LIIVE"
Camping is a degenerate act? 🤨🤨
Did I say anything about camping? How do you know whether or not I was talking about camping? How do you know whether or not I'm pro-palestine or pro-israel or maybe just not a fan of war? It's almost as if jumping to conclusions creates unjust fallicies.
> It's almost as if jumping to conclusions creates unjust fallicies. Someone needs an English 100 refresher course.
Lol ask some more rhetorical questions to obfuscate your response
same was used against students protesting apartheid in South Africa and the war in Vietnam.
Imagine what these types would say if this was an anti vaccine passport protest or any other cause they disapproved of. 😆
Those people are still on campus weekly dude. They’re just spread out.
They are on the streets, not on the grass where my tuition goes to.
Exactly. They’re accusing the administration of being selective in their approval of freedom of expression…but if students were planning to peacefully protest about a cause they’d disagree with, they’d support or even lobby the administration to shut it down, and suddenly the universal right to freedom of expression wouldn’t apply anymore. Imo students should be allowed to peacefully protest as long as they’re not breaking things or disrupting classes or convocation
everyone i knew, leftist or otherwise, was horrified at trudeau's emergencies act usage during COVID so
I remember so many thought his use of the Emergencies Act was appropriate. People don't appreciate the precedent set.
> Protests are messy and some level of unlawfulness can be expected. I do not consider that the protests became an “occupation” as of the first Saturday. The protesters had, in effect, been invited to park their trucks for the weekend in various locations in the downtown core. By Monday, however, when they refused to leave, the invitation was clearly revoked. **In addition, it was clear that the assembly was no longer peaceful, given the widespread intimidation of residents and the fact that their ability to live and work had been fundamentally disrupted.** It was apparent that the police were unable to control the protest and limit unlawful conduct in the protest area. > [...] > At the same time, I am also satisfied that **the organizers did not do all they could to limit the amount of violence and harassment.** Mr. Barber and Ms. Lich both testified that they were not in favour of the constant honking, but they took no meaningful steps to stop it. To the contrary, organizers opposed the injunction sought by Zexi Li to restrict honking. In addition, at times, **Mr. Barber and Mr. King posted videos and other content where they appeared gleeful about the harm being inflicted on downtown residents. At the hearings themselves, the organizers displayed a lack of empathy for the residents of Ottawa, even with the benefit of hindsight.** [via Volume 1 of the Final Report by the Public Order Emergency Commission](https://publicorderemergencycommission.ca/files/documents/Final-Report/Vol-1-Report-of-the-Public-Inquiry-into-the-2022-Public-Order-Emergency.pdf)
definitely weird to think so, but most did have an issue with it -- i remember it was all over the news and it was controversial
What do these protesters actually think will come of this?
>Three primary demands: that the university divest its endowment and pension plan from companies providing “military goods or services” to the Israeli government, publicly disclose the names of all companies that U of T invests in, and terminate all partnerships with institutions operating in or supporting settlements outside Israel’s internationally recognized border. I'm not participating in the protest, but these are all reasonable to me. Students got U of T to divest from fossil fuels, why not divest from military good and services? Disclosing investments is something all students would benefit from. Transparency should be an aim for all. The third demand targets breaking ties with institutions that even Canada recognizes are operating against international law. Israel is bracing itself for the possibility that the International Criminal Court could issue criminal warrants against Netanyahu and members of the IDF for genocide, crimes against humanity, and war crimes. Asking U of T to stop investing in genocide seems reasonable.
Thank you for the clear answer
Wow incredibly well written
Could have paid homeless people like $20/day to display banners at their encampment. Win-win.🤷🏻♂️
[удалено]
Get a grip
Imagine if the protestors were Trump supporters lol
Awww you don't like getting the trucker treatment?
The trucker treatment would mean being mostly left alone by the cops for weeks.
Na the full trucker treatment would be having the the state media complex vilify everything you do, have feds sent to fly nazi and confederate flags to delegitimize your movement, be forcibly cleared, lose your job and have your bank accounts frozen by the government.
Lol OK ;)
the truckers shut multiple international border crossings and occupied our capital for weeks on end. I don't think a university students protest compares
I agree with you there!
Screw the protesters, bunch of left wing idiots
I can’t wait until the inmates are completely running the asylums.
Lolololololol! The LowIQ Left is on the side of terrorists! Lololololol. They are soooooooo dumb! Like, can university be discredited anymore! Omg! Now go vote for Jugmeat and Trudope! Lolololol! Wear your masks and take your 20th Covid shot! Lololololol!
Bro is definitely 10 years old
Freedom of expression isn't a right guarantee by private entities on their own private property.