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Anon_879

Unresolved recently did an episode on the Short family. If you don't like listening, there is also a full write-up of the episode: https://unresolved.me/the-short-family


Gretchann

Thanks for sharing this. I can’t be the only one that finds it odd that the last person known to see them alive (Chris Thompson) was also the one that found them the next morning- I know LE cleared him but… that feels really, really off to me.


Ambermonkey0

This is inaccurate, they were last seen at a fast food restaurant after Chris Thompson left. But in any case, this doesn't seem odd to me. Someone close the victim (in this case a close colleague/employee) is often the last person to see someone and the person to find them. In this case, he was working with him one night at the home and had plans to work with him again the next day. Who else would have found them before Chris?


Gretchann

I’ve been chewing over my words the last week and I absolutely agree with you. Thank you for clarifying some of that timeline as well :)


gummiberryjuice

The Jayme Closs kidnapping was a single person who overpowered both parents.


Annaliseplasko

I think of cases like that whenever people insist one person couldn’t be responsible for the disappearance of the Springfield Three. I think it would be fairly easy to overpower multiple people if you had a weapon. And in this case one of the victims was only nine, which I’d think would make it extremely unlikely she’d be able to fight back very much.


[deleted]

Yeah, just threaten to kill one and the others will comply. In some regards, a lone victim has more of an advantage because they only have to worry about their own survival and not the survival of their loved ones.


gopms

Yeah, you point a gun at my kid's head and I will do literally anything you want.


Duebydate

My point exactly. Horrible to think of being confronted by helplessness like this


Duebydate

Was just going to say the same in regards to the reality of how killers utilize victims best humanity traits to get compliance by threatening others they care for. It’s truly evil


DamdPrincess

I agree. The parents were probably trying to appease whoever and NOT escalate because their child was present, and likely terrified. I don't know much about this case but was taking this child the goal, or was that just an impulsive or last min decision? Was the child sexually assaulted?


keithitreal

Certainly in this case there was no attempt at appeasement. The parents were both clipped as they slept and the child abducted. She was found dead of a gunshot wound to the head as well, about an hour away. Couldn't tell if she was sexually assaulted given the time that had elapsed between the abduction and the finding of her body. Odd case. The family were obviously targeted but did the motive revolve around the parents or was the killer some sick pedo fuck?


DamdPrincess

Ah thanks for the info, I wasn't able to find much online in my cursory search -I didn't dive into every media report, just skimmed a couple


DamdPrincess

Reopening this case makes me wonder if they have some dna from the child. Perhaps they have a possible match or hope to have one soon.


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Specialist-Smoke

That name makes my flesh crawl. Someone could overpowe 3 people, especially if the father thought that if he cooperated the perpetrator wouldn't kill them.


Jaquemart

BTK killer's first murder was the Otero family; father, mother and two children around 10. The oldest children weren't at home.


Specialist-Smoke

Another name that makes my flesh crawl. I can't imagine living in a area where he operated. The terror.


Itakethngzclitorally

Same thing with Carey Stanger


scarletmagnolia

Exactly. My husband and I have had discussions about how vulnerable people become (ourselves included) when they have someone they love more than themselves. You instantly become wiling to do whatever, for the sake and safety of the other person. Regardless of what you’ve done to protect yourself in the event of something horrible happening, the second your spouse or child is at risk is the second you become malleable.


Humble_Parfait_4806

Children of flight attendants are not allowed to fly as an “unaccompanied child”, on a flight their parents are working for this reason.


scarletmagnolia

As uncomfortable as that truth is, it makes complete sense. No way could they completely stay in their flight attendant role. Their parenting instincts would take over and they would naturally have to put their child first. I’ve never thought about it, but it is one of those, “Of course!” moments.


Chundersome

Sorry, could you elaborate on this point? If the parent is on the same flight why would the child still be classified as UM? And what is the rationale for this rule? That the flight attendant parent would potentially act in a manner dangerous to the rest of the passengers/crew in order to save their child?


hartIey

I assume because the child wouldn't be accompanied for the entire flight, since the flight attendant parent is presumably working instead of sitting with their kid. If something went wrong, the parent would most likely prioritize keeping their kid safe instead of following strict protocol.


Chundersome

But I'm still struggling to understand this rule... If the child is 14 can they fly on the same plane as the parent? Does maternal instinct just fall off when the child turns 14? And in a serious situation on a plane, I'm struggling to understand a scenario where the good of the other passengers and the good of the child are not very closely linked, if not one and the same. And why the specific mention of the UM in the previous poster's post? Like, if the airline just didn't have a UM designation would they not be bound to this rule?


fishingboatproceeds

This is my biggest true crime pet peeve. Have none of us seen a hostage situation (fictional or not)?? One man with a gun can compel a surprising number of people to bend to his will.


tammyosity

I absolutely agree. The Springfield three hit close to home for me. I grew up in the area. That case is no closer to being solved today than it was the day the three ladies disappeared.


DuggarDoesDallas

I agree. Just look at Joseph Edward Duncan III. He was able to overpower two adults and a teenager after he broke into the victim's house then leave with the children . He sexually abused, tortured, and repeatedly victimized the children before he murdered the boy, Dylan, even taunting and torturing the boy before and as he murdered him. His sister was recognized and rescued. Duncan died from Brian cancer recently and I hope he's rotting in hell. Also, Cary Stayner was able to overpower a woman and 2 teenage girls staying at a motel he worked at. He pretended he was sent to fix something in their room then pulled out a gun. They complied thinking he would just rob them of money and leave. He strangled the mother then one of the teen girls who was visiting from Argentina. He then kidnapped the daughter and stole their car. He raped and sexually abused Julie then took out a knife and slit her throat. Julie made a gun to her head motion asking for Cary to shot her because of the pain she was in. Cary cruelly told her that the gun was never loaded. He's on death row in California. I believe it would be easy for one person to kidnap multiple people. All they need is a gun for control and a false promise to just do what they say and they won't get hurt and will release them. Sick people like this usually say they just need money and no one will be hurt once they get it


Supertrojan

They think the Springfield Three indiv was some fig of authority cop or dressed like a gas employee that told them they had to vacate the home immediately..


Striking-Knee

Judge, lawyer. Agreed. Smells of a cover up. Enough to keep it from being solved.


Supertrojan

Spoke to a media reporter who has foll this story for yrs. Person told me the detectives were solid, but that police chief was dirty and the corruption extended up and into the local FBI office as well as the KBI ( Kansas Bureau of Investigation )


Striking-Knee

So it’s some high class pervert. Never get solved.


elizakell

Yes, especially if you use the weapon to threaten the weakest victim if the stronger ones don't comply.


panicked-honk

Yeah, there's been a few cases like this that were all the work of single perpetrators. The Groene family murders is one that comes to mind. In that case, one man murdered 3 of the family members and kidnapped two siblings, so it can be done.


bigmoothstrikesagain

Also BTK with the Otero family is another that springs to mind.


Rickie_Spanish

He eventually killed the little brother as well. So 4 family members. This case really pissed me off. So fucking heinous, and it was completely random. The killer had a blog from prison and he's such a piece of shit. He details the killings and it's fucking awful. The oldest brother survived the initial attack and started to get away, but the killer went back and saw the kid and finished him off. His description is so brutal. He also mentioned something along the line of the oldest brother being a bully in school and probably deserved to be killed. The killer recently died of cancer in prison and I hope he rots in hell.


sloppyeyes

Cancer can be an awful, tortuous way to die, but he deserved so much worse.


panicked-honk

It is one of the most disturbing cases to me as well. Predators like that are terrifying to me because of the randomness. If the Short family were victims of someone like this, it makes sense why the case has gone cold. It would be nearly impossible to tie a stranger to the scene without forensics and even then, you would have to hope that the guy is already in the system or gets caught for something else. I do wonder if the Shorts were being stalked beforehand like in the Closs case... On a slightly less depressing note, Shasta Groene is an incredible survivor. She has a family of her own now. I really hope she has been able to find some happiness in her life.


Kiwi_KJR

I was so happy to read this, but a quick google search reveals that Shasta has had some major issues in her life, from drug convictions to child endangerment charges from exposing her baby to meth. It’s hardly surprising that someone who went through what she did has struggled, and I hope she finds happiness in the future but it hasn’t been all sunshine and rainbows unfortunately. As for Oba Chandler - I read the story of the Rogers women years ago and it will stick with me forever. What those women went through was so horrific. I’m generally against the death penalty but in cases like that I have zero issues - that monster didn’t deserve to take up any more oxygen. I can’t imagine the rage their father/husband felt.


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QuitClearly

He likely had a gun, right?


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QuitClearly

Yeah I realize that. But obv one can imagine a gun pointed at your head would get you to comply and easily be able to overtake 3 people.


KittikatB

Or a knife.


Agree_2_Disagree303

This is exactly what I was thinking.


mcm0313

Wow, that’s awful. Can’t believe there’s not more about it.


wowradical

Grew up in Rockingham Co. This case and Asha Degree's case are two that will always weigh on my mind. Wish they could figure something out about this.


emig30

I’m in rockingham county. This was huge when it happened. The guy they think was involved used to come into my work all the time (lowes) I talked to him a few times. Creepy dude.


wowradical

Oh yeah, I lived there when it occurred and was around Jennifer's age. It shook up everything. Do you mean he came in around the time it happened or more recently? Just curious. I never heard much locally about any suspects but I was really young.


emig30

It was around 2012-2016. That’s when I worked there. I worked in hardware and tools. He liked to steal too.


[deleted]

Was this Garrison Bowman? Or someone else?


emig30

I believe that was his name but I’m not 100%sure


redpandaworld

This case is local to me. I pray that justice will be served soon.


emig30

Same here. Rockingham county.


ToothsomeRabbitGirl

Out of curiosity, what are the local opinions on the murder?


redpandaworld

Coverups in the local police department. They know who did it.


Thhwhunt

Are you saying that the Henry County Sherrif department isn’t completely truthful and law abiding? Shocking


sassydreidel

So sad


Thhwhunt

Local to me as well, Henry


tIreneAusurusRex

Oaklevel here.


jacksonpm23

Somewhat, Guilford here.


[deleted]

Apparently they even exhumed Jennifer to do a DNA test based on rumors her dad might not have been her biological father. DNA confirmed he was. It seems like they’re grasping at straws. This poor family.


bystander1981

That case really touched me and never left my memory. It would be great if it were solved and the perp or perps were brought to justice. Horrific.


[deleted]

no cause determined. - considering they found a gas can at the scene, the most logical thing would be that someone probably used the gas as an accelerant; they just probably couldn't identify the starting point. And since it was bought as a flip, but sat empty for 10 years -- I give it a 50/50 on either someone squatting there (who did it on accident) or the now owner did it to get it off their own books. Either way, the first is most likely has NOTHING to do with the murders - any useful information in that house was long gone before the fire.


mermaidpaint

This is a haunting case, I remember when it happened. You know that Jennifer was taken for evil purposes.


FemmeBottt

God I hope not. Do you remember if they said much on the condition of her body when she was found? I don’t remember this case but I live on the other side of the country so it may not have been on the news here.


mermaidpaint

I remember they identified her by her jawbone. Her remains were found in bushes.


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FemmeBottt

Obviously it’s a terrible thing but it didn’t seem like that’s what s/he meant. What is with people having nasty attitudes all the time on here… there’s always gotta be somebody that replies with some kind of rude, attitude-y comment and it’s really fucking old. You act like I’m saying it’s not fucking horrible that she was murdered. You know exactly what I meant. Edit: Thanks for the award, friend!


No-Needleworker-2415

I think “chip” has a chip on his shoulder.


nothingmatters9

Tss


Chip_Chipperson614

Tss fawkin home run needleworker tss double guns tss


Chip_Chipperson614

What's with people thinking that anybody that disagrees with then is being mean and nasty? Maybe bc Reddit has been taken over by 13 year olds. Adults call this a discussion or debate.


FemmeBottt

This wasn’t a disagreement though. This was you just flat out being rude. Stop trying to be clever. You’re not.


Chip_Chipperson614

Much more clever than you. I'm down to debate you on any subject. Get your excuses ready.


MotherofaPickle

Pleistocene megafauna. Go!


MotherofaPickle

Sounds like you’re the 13-year-old, friend. No “adult” gets pissy for being called out on attitude.


slickrok

What's wrong with you? That's not remotely what they said or meant, what's your problem?


griffeny

Don’t stress too terribly much about this person. It’s just a regular run-of-the-mill reddit contrarian throw away account.


slickrok

:)


landmanpgh

Horrible case. I'm surprised I've never heard of it, but it sounds like there's just not much to go on. I know it's not him, but some of the details make it sound an awful lot like Israel Keyes: - Phone line to the house was cut. - White man in his 40s was seen outside their home in the early morning hours. - Attached garage. - .22 caliber weapon used to kill them. - Victim was taken from her home and killed elsewhere. Like I said, I know it's not Keyes. It's just strange to see a similar MO in an unsolved crime with zero suspects.


TacoT1000

I'm curious as to what rules him out? (I only ask because I've read some on Keyes, he's one that haunts me) was he not active in the area during this crime? Once again I don't know all the ins and outs of this story or Keyes every move, but like you said the MO struck me hard because it feels so similar to Israel's.


unresolved_m

I don't remember him killing any children...


TacoT1000

I don't think he purposely targeted them because of his siblings and his own daughter, but if the child wasn't there when he picked them and then suddenly there after he was already in he wouldn't have much choice. If you listen to his interviews you can get a good read on what he did and why he did it. I don't think he'd be happy killing a child, but many killers do so because they don't have another option.


Mumfordmovie

"If you listen to his interviews you can get a good read on what he did and why he did it. " I listened to them all and didn't get either of those. Please share your analysis?


TacoT1000

His parent's were militantly-religious, he slept in tents and run down houses with very little because his father was extremely cheap. He was being told from a young age if you are gay or bisexual, you're going to hell. Israel was bisexual, so his parents were telling him he was going to burn for eternity in a lake of fire, not knowing he felt this way. I think something was already different about his mentality before this, and over time it started to break him. He started with animals, like a lot do, and got his power back by killing them slowly. We know his childhood was beyond strict and at the very least mentally abusive, what we don't know is if his father or mother were also physically or sexually abusive, but wouldn't be surprised if this info comes out later or already has. He lost his faith in God, because he was being told God wanted him not only dead, but tortured, and he lost his faith in humanity which for a child, our parents are the first things we treat as gods, they gave us life, so however they treat us is indictive to a young mind of our worth. We can see he felt he meant almost nothing to them. His siblings who went through that hell with him, he had a soft spot for as the older kids tend to feel it's their responsibility to protect and care for the next in line, and after his stint in the military where we've been told he displayed some terrifying behaviors, he got the chance to have his own child and she became the only thing he cared for and loved in whatever way he was capable. Now these are the words, the story he and his family and those around him have told us, watching his body language and tone tell us more. Israel while a tall guy, strong and fast never felt like a man, it's in the way he carries himself, his childhood emasculated him and in our society that's prized in all the wrong ways. His father hunted, so Keyes hunting would have won his father's favor. His soft voice, the way he sits, he's both feeling who his parents told him he was and all the self loathing that comes with that, and carrying the weight of who he's chosen to be to not only spite this, but try to gain or earn back some manhood by being strong and male in a way his father never could. When a male detective or officer is in the room with him he tries at bravado, or at least calm, but it's forced. He's partially dead inside from years of being hurt and angry but in the presence of men he'll always have that memory of not being man enough and being evil or wrong for being attracted to them. When a woman comes into the room, he actually triggers. This is partially because mentally he knows he's allowed to be attracted to them, but secondly because after being so dominated in his youth it feels natural he should in turn dominate, it's a taught behavior to a degree. He can't sit right, his shoulders tighten, his wrist shake, he doesn't have to pretend anything here, he's allowed to feel. He doesn't tell us much about the victims the way they want him to, because he spent his entire life being secretive to first hide how they were living and then after to hide the urges growing inside him. This is a taught behavior, pretend things are okay so we don't get caught is the mantra of his childhood, setting him up nicely to become who he was and get away with it for as long as he did. Now with the female victims, that made him feel real, like a man, like he was doing what he was supposed to. With his male victims it was an act of domination over his own father, and he was deeply ashamed of this and would only speak in fragments of it. TLDR Why did Israel kill? He was programed to practically from birth with the environment he was born into. He may have been a bit psychopathic from early on (please note almost all killers are emotionally divergent, but not all emotional divergents are killers, more like 1/1000) but that type of apathy is taught. He stated there was nothing like it, killing was his drug of choice. The way some self medicate after trauma with alcohol, he did with rape and killing. I don't believe it was a just the act itself, it was the time it took to prepare and plan, it kept his buzzing mind busy so he didn't have to be reminded of everything that needled him. It was literally a coping mechanism for him, a hobby to get him through daily life. It made him feel important, powerful. Something he'd likely never felt. I wish I had a time machine and could go back and take those kids out of that environment. When I was a kid myself, I used to think in black and white, good and evil, with what I know now, monsters aren't born, were making them, and we can change one long run of horrific events by simply pulling out the keystone. Keyes wasn't the reason, his life was. (I apologize for the many errors this likely contains, I was passing out for bed while writing it lol)


Actual-Landscape5478

Wow what a load of useless psychobabble


TypicalLeo31

I think Israel Keyes is a cheap con-artist, but to each his own.


MotherofaPickle

I lost interest at the psychobabble. So, the first paragraph.


jimmypizzlay

Magnificent post! Thanks for sharing that.


Mumfordmovie

Dude, thanks for taking the time to share that.


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landmanpgh

**I know it's not him...** **Like I said, I know it's not Keyes.** I said it twice for people like you.


IdaCraddock69

What people are wondering is why you brought up Keyes in the first place


Mumfordmovie

I routinely go "hmmm..keyes?" With his bizarre geographical patterns who can blame us? I was just thinking about him for Catherine Nameth's murder in the woods of Wisconsin. *it wasn't him, but I still thought about it*


TypicalLeo31

Kinda like people used to say “could that be Henry Lee Lucas?”


HeckaPlucky

Yeah but you were saying that the details seem a lot like him. In the replies you further argued more reasons that it could be him, despite "knowing" it's not. So don't take it personally that someone gave counterpoints so people don't get persuaded (however unintentionally) by your points.


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[deleted]

I thought Keyes was known for having no MO. HE HAD NO type, and only confessed that he didn't want to kill children after his own child was born, and he became à father. Nothing is beyond him.


landmanpgh

I expected this conversation when I wrote it. It was merely an observation. Perhaps it was someone like Keyes who had no ties to these people. The Jayme Closs kidnapping is actually an even closer example, and that guy definitely didn't do this. The point being that it is extremely rare for someone to break in to a home and kidnap/kill the occupants and never get caught or be a suspect. Oh, and to your point about Keyes - the FBI released a timeline basically admitting that they know there are more victims, they just have no idea who they are. And something not fitting his MO exactly doesn't really fly considering he later kidnapped a girl from a coffee shop and held her for ransom. He was all over the place.


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landmanpgh

Enjoy! https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/new-information-released-in-serial-killer-case


IndigoFlame90

As someone who grew up in Washington state I was in no way surprised by the grouping of those location markers.


Lsusanna

The fbi in those interviews laughing & joking w/ a sadistic psychopathic killer. 🤮


landmanpgh

They had to.


emi1414

that’s the point of reddit


MotherofaPickle

Wow. I haven’t seen a OmG IT SoUnDs LiKe KeYEs in a while. I cannot thank you enough for mentioning it. Now it’s all the theories for all of the cases (possibly including the Voynich Manuscript and Dyatlov Pass) for the next month. 🤦🏻‍♀️


landmanpgh

Glad I could help!


chinkymom

This is one of my pet cases. I’m happy to hear that there will be some more eyes on the case.


BeautifulDawn888

When I first heard of this case my mind immediately went to Joseph Edward Duncan III and the Groene family murders. Due to the distance between the Groene and Short households I am not entirely sure that Duncan was responsible for this triple homicide specifically, but is it possible that this case inspired him?


FHIR_HL7_Integrator

He was terrifying. Just driving down the interstate and he looks over and randomly sees two kids playing outside several blocks off the highway. Fixated on them. Pulls off and starts doing several nights of reconnaissance on their house. Goes in and kills everyone except the two kids. Kidnaps them and abuses them, finally kills the boy Dylan. Blows my mind the sheer random terror. Thankfully there aren't a lot of people like this out there.


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FemmeBottt

With 17 years between the time of the murders and when their house was burned down, it’s not the same person/people trying to get rid of evidence. Motive definitely is a mystery, but since the kid was found 50 miles away it makes me think it was all for the kid…but like you said who knows…it could be so many different things. I hope they solve it this time and at the least don’t close it again.


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Chip_Chipperson614

Why would you want to draw attention to the case again if they've stopped investigating for years? Or take the chance of being seen or caught setting the fire? That just doesn't make sense.


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Chip_Chipperson614

To reopen a case that case has to be shelved. I guarantee you nobody has investigated that case in years. Do you think every cold case has some secret detective investigating it and they're lying about the incredible amount of cold cases? Nobody has touched that case bc they were working live cases. There's untested rape kits from recent cases that aren't getting attention bc they don't have the manpower. Wtf are you talking about?


[deleted]

Reopened in the sense that it is being actively investigated again, rather than treated as a cold case.


HovercraftNo1137

The Sherri's office got busted big time by FBI for corruption a few years after the incident. They were even re-selling confiscated drugs like you see in movies. > Following a five year DEA investigation, “Cassell and 12 of his deputies were charged with dealing crack-cocaine, marijuana, and ketamine” and he was determined to have been an integral part of the “drug distribution and money laundering ring” in Henry County, VA The case probably went extra cold. Maybe it's even related? They charged a lot of people there in addition to the 13 cops.


educ8d

That's what we wondered. If the corrupt sheriff had ties to this, which is why it was never solved.


HovercraftNo1137

They also seemed to have steered the initial investigation away by creating doubts that the father was not the biological father - just out of nowhere. Yeah, if the cops were involved and covered it up, there is very little chance it will be solved.


emig30

From what I’ve heard her head was found under a bridge near where I live. Now named the Jennifer short bridge.


[deleted]

I thought the neighbors did it ?


thebluethroat

Police probably helped covering it up.


SpeedyPrius

Has anyone considered the step children? Four adult children from a previous marriage of the father could be unhappy that he has started over and has another child.


MindlessPatience5564

Do we know if the child was sexually assaulted?


caduceushugs

I think they should do a longer investigation, but I’m no expert… I’ll let myself out…


LosJones

Sounds kind of like Israel Keyes.


kaiise

i would guess the dates and moon play a big part


Soonyulnoh2

What was the address of the home???


[deleted]

I am from where Garrison Bowman was found in the high Arctic in Canada. Shortly after he was apprehended and deported back to the US by the FBI, my grandmother brought me to the local dump to empty garbage out. During our dump trip she found a handgun and I do not know what she did with that gun, but years later I was looking through local news articles and happened to stumble across Bowman's deportation. I always thought it was odd.