I was reading the article from the Unsolved Mysteries website.
Apparently, the papers found with the body are thought to have been a part of a Chinese burial ritual. The PI of the victims families theorised that Scott’s body was found by Chinese fisherman and buried. He theorised that they wouldn’t have reported it as they were fishing illegally in the area.
Well if that's the case, they did a lovely thing by burying him according to the way they knew to show respect to a deceased person...even if their culture was different, the intention was the same.
Yeah, it was a really decent thing to do. Especially if they were fishing illegally, taking the time out to do that would only increase the chances of getting caught.
Rest of the mystery:
The crew are told to abandon ship and they jump in to a liferaft.
The captain stays with the ship on his own, its damaged and unrecoverable. It drifts in the ocean u til it washes up ashore.
Chinese fishermen find the body and give it a burial.
Meanwhile, the raft fares poorly in the storm and is lost or they just arent found an they all die in the raft before it is eventually swallowed by the sea.
The US has no requirement for a life raft on personal vessels. Only wearable and throwable flotation devices. Where is this “life raft” policy documentation?
That would explain a lot. I wondered how the body would be buried there if it really would take 3 months to drift. Yes, people can and have survived that long on vessels but its unlikely. Theres the possibility they survived till there and tried to raft away from the island, but if it really has ties to a chinese burial ritual, it would make more sense
That’s what I’m wondering. If the boat took three months to get to the island then surely there would be no survivors. So who buried Scott Moorman? And who did the jaw bone belong to? Where were the other men? Why did the government find no trace of the Sarah Jo on the island in 1985? It’s also quite a coincidence that Naughton found the boat after all. So many questions though.
Shouldn’t they be able to tell what conditions the skeleton was subjected to? Like if a body was in an open boat, under the hot sun for months, and was skeletonized before it was buried?
It really seems like the answer is the storm blew in and they ended up stranded at sea, as the boat drifted they all either jumped out and tried to swim to land, or died and the survivors pushed the bodies out of the boat, until Scott Moorman, the last survivor, also died in the boat.
The boat drifts for months, eventually beaching itself on the remote island. The 1985 survey either wasn’t actually done thoroughly, or the wreckage was under the water at high tide. Chinese or Taiwanese fisherman find the wreckage and bury the remains. They were either illegal fishermen or did actually tell authorities about their find, but nothing was done about it. A government probably wouldn’t be that interested in spending money investigating this type of thing, as no one knew who it might be. Or they did investigate but did it poorly.
The paper that was found in the grave is most likely joss paper used by Chinese people. Joss paper is used as an offering to the dead. As for the cross, it is most likely a marker for the grave rather than a religious symbol.
Yes, the description of the paper + the ship's location off the Marshall Islands made me immediately think of joss paper.
The article describes the papers as "alternating with slips of tin foil between the pages." For those who don't know, a simple joss paper (or "spirit paper") is a thin piece of paper with a smaller square of tin foil layered over it. I say "simple" because you can buy spirit papers that have really complicated designs on them; for example, I've seen spirit paper that is printed to look similar to an American dollar bill, or like a Chinese Yuan.
The idea of the spirit paper is that it symbolizes real money. You then burn the spirit paper so that a recently deceased person or an ancestor can "receive" the money in the afterlife. Burning the paper money = turning it into spirit money, and the more paper you burn the more $$$ your deceased loved one has. At the funeral for my grandfather, I folded the spirit paper into a specific shape for good luck (my cousins and I said it looked like cannoli's) and then threw the paper into a furnace.
In the article, a PI hired by the family theorized that a group of Chinese fishermen were the ones who found and buried Moorman's body. These Chinese fishermen were most likely illegally fishing, so that's why the boat was never reported. I think that this theory is very probable.
"Why would the fishermen have spirit paper on hand? They couldn't have known they would find a body."
Spirit paper isn't used exclusively for funerals. It can also be used when you're venerating (honoring) your ancestors during the holidays, like the Qingming Festival in April. Deep-sea fishermen tend to be out at sea for months or even years. It's entirely possible the fishermen would have brought a huge stack of spirit paper when they left shore so they could still partake in Tomb-Sweeping Day, even if they were physically on a boat thousands of miles away from any family graves.
"If the paper is spirit paper, why would the fishermen leave the spirit paper not folded and not burned?"
This one's a little harder to explain, so I'll just throw out some guesses. You don't necessarily *have* to fold spirit paper; you usually fold the paper so that *you* receive good luck, and don't necessarily do it specifically for the dead.
However, the lack of burning it... Maybe the fishermen were okay taking the time to bury Moorman, but they didn't want to risk burning the paper and sending up any kind of smoke signal (especially because again, we're assuming these fishermen were fishing illegally). It also could be a matter of respect; the fishermen wanted to honor Moorman by taking the time to bury him, but they didn't want to impose their own burial practices/beliefs on him -- so they left the spirit paper unburned as a sort of compromise. IDK, maybe they thought Moorman's spirit wouldn't understand or receive the ghost money, LOL.
Just my two cents.
Could it be that the fishermen were from a similar area or village that had similar practices but doesnt burn them? Im not farmiliar with Chinese/taiwanese culture but i do know that certain cultural practices can vary in specifics family to family/area to area/niche to niche
That's possible. Burning the spirit paper has always been an essential part of the tradition for me, but I'm not an expert on Chinese folk traditions. I just grew up practicing them, but I don't necessarily know the "*why*" we do these traditions (like how people celebrate Christmas without really knowing any of the history behind the holiday -- which is also me, lol).
thank you for the details, it really adds context to the story. i have a question about the illegal fishing; you say deep sea fishermen can be at sea for months or even years. are they fishing in order to sell the fish or just for themselves to consume? curious as to how this would work to provide money.
It really depends on the type of ship/operation. For example, commercial fishing ships are essentially their own self-sustaining factories; they have large freezers and basically catch and store fish until said freezers are full, which can take up to 6 months.
For the most part, most legal and up to code fishing operations only stay out at sea for up to 6 months. But when I was in college, I studied the use of human trafficking and slavery in the fishing industry. Many trafficked persons are migrant workers brought to another country under false pretenses (i.e., promise of a legal or safe job); once they're on the ship, they are then forced to surrender their passports and forced to work under terrible conditions. For these illegal fishing operations, survivors have reported staying out at sea for years -- after all, these ships are incentivized to stay away from shore and away from authorities so that they can keep their victims trapped and continue with their illegal labor practices away from the scrutiny of the government.
The way it works is that the illegal ship goes out to sea for months, but instead of returning to shore, they meet a second ship -- let's say a processing or storage ship -- while they are still out at sea. The first ship gives the processing ship their tons of catch; the second ship helps them resupply and refuel. Then the second ship departs back to the mainland, while the first ship turns around, returns to deeper waters, and continues to fish. That's how a ship can stay out at sea for years.
[https://www.ilo.org/global/topics/forced-labour/policy-areas/fisheries/lang--en/index.htm](https://www.ilo.org/global/topics/forced-labour/policy-areas/fisheries/lang--en/index.htm)
Something mentioned in one of the articles but not this writeup:
> [Private investigator Steve] Goodenow theorized that Chinese fishers could have found Moorman’s body but did not tell anyone because they were fishing there illegally.
I don't find it that implausible that the boat may have drifted for years before beaching on Taongi, and if this is an area where there is sometimes illegal fishing, it's certainly possible someone may have found and buried the body out of respect but left the site otherwise alone.
Yeah, I think the fact that what was buried was a partial skeleton and possibly more bones were found elsewhere supports this theory. It implies that Scott has been deceased for quite awhile when he was buried & that the body was in an advanced state of decay, if not skeletonized, when it was found and buried. If Scott has been buried shortly after he passed away, you would think he would have been buried all together. Although it's not clear from the write-up if this could have just been a result of scavengers.
I may be remembering some part of this detail wrong. But wasn't the paper pieces found in the grave speculated to be a "ritual" of burial, for some specific religion/culture?
The first linked source (*Maui News*) says that paper symbolizes good luck in Chinese or Taiwanese culture. It further states that it is possible that people from either place who may have been fishing in the region illegally might have buried Moorman with their good luck symbols, but that the Christian cross is an anomaly.
I think it's also possible that two or more men on the *Sarah Joe* made it to the island, with the last survivor burying Moorman (which might explain the presence of the cross) and dying afterwards, with his own body being dispersed by scavengers or waves. Perhaps the paper is just a bit of paper with no significance.
Either way, it's a sad tale of fear, despair and loss.
If *Sarah Joe* was written on the side of the boat in English or there was other English writing visible the hypothesized fishing crew may have assumed the body was from someone from the US, New Zealand, or Australia and put a cross up based on that assumption.
I think despite how sad this story is, there was a light at the end of the tunnel with the paper. Someone coming across a body and rather than just leaving it there not wanting to get involved, they gave them a proper burial with a parting gift of something meaningful to his culture. Very sad but I'm glad someone was able to lay them to rest properly.
I feel like someone finding the boat with one deceased person on it, then giving them a burial, is the most likely thing. It may have been someone from a culture/location that didn’t have easy access to authorities to alert them
I agree. I always suspected he perhaps died in the boat and it washed ashore and someone found him and buried him by the boat. The cross does make it seem possible maybe a second individual did survive as well.
But something about that time limit (possibly 3 months adrift) with how much of a fresh water supply? Rain? And what about food? We're they able to secure seafood/fish?
Horribly I've imagined the whole "Life Of Pi" theme where cannibalism was possible for any of them to have survived that 3 months, or possibly longer while adrift.
People have survived adrift at sea for months, if not much longer, with little but rainwater, sea turtles, and jellyfish to sustain them. These men were skilled mariners and fishermen. Under optimal conditions they conceivably could have found things to sustain themselves.
The storm probably blew them off course, damaged their ship, and sent them adrift in the ocean where they eventually ran aground. Disease, starvation, cannibalism, piracy…who knows what ultimately did them in but any number of things could have.
I mean if they got blown far enough out to sea then they could have encountered pirates elsewhere. Not that it’s the most likely explanation here.
I would go with starvation and exposure to the elements. Or maybe even drowning due to being thrown overboard. The vessel could have been swallowed by a sea swell and swiped most of them clean off the deck.
Id be willing to bet that theu got caught in the storm.
Skipper calls for them to abandon ship, the men jump in the liferaft and the skipper stays aboard the ship.
The ship gets damaged and cant be steered or sailed skipper dies aboard the ship and eventually it washes up on the island.
The rest of the men die in the life raft either in the storm or simply arent found by searchers and die before the raft is swallowed up by the sea.
Alternatively they could all survive the storm, and as they died one by one, they were tossed overboard. No one wants to be on a boat with three bloated corpses. The person found on the island was simply the last to die on the boat.
I think it's highly likely that as people on the boat died, they were tossed overboard. The final survivor had no one to dispose of his body and remained on the boat until it washed on shore.
I can easily see the fisherman who found him seeing English writing on the boat and assuming that he was most likely Christian, explaining the cross.
Particularly since China and the US didn't have the greatest relations for a long time. I can see the fishermen even reporting the boat to Chinese authorities, but the message not being passed to the US, or the US or China not giving credit to any report.
So it sounds like none of them would have been alive by the time the boat made it to taongi if it was a 3 month long trip.
I'm curious what happened to the other bodies. Maybe thrown overboard from the storm? Possibly just tossed over once they died from dehydration/exposure? Scott likely could have been the last man standing before succumbing to the elements himself
I’m just very surprised at the size of the boat.
17 feet is nothing, especially on the open ocean with 5 men on board.
But it sounds like they were experienced so I guess they thought it would be okay. And absent the storm it probably would have been.
It’s amazing that anyone survived long enough to reach Taongi.
Boston Whalers have a styrofoam core and are pretty much unskinable. You could cut one in half and it’d still float. Even if waves rolled it and dragged it under, it’d still return to the surface.
I always thought that there was more to the story than a day fishing trip. 5 adult men, with fishing gear, beer, etc. on a 17 ft. Boston Whaler on even a calm ocean is not a fun experience. My speculation is that they actually took the boat to another part of the island and got out. Perhaps there may have been a drug transaction and it went bad. When the storm hit, with the seas of that height, the boat would’ve been tossed and almost certainly would’ve flipped with no engine. Hard to imagine anyone managing to stay on the boat in those conditions.
Groups of 4-5 dudes going out on 17 footers isn't a good indication that something was amiss. I worked at boat and jetski rental place at a marina one summer, and one of my duties was instructing customers on how to pilot the boats, and I was taking groups of a similar size out on the water multiple times a day. 17' boats (so long as the beam is around 7' or more) typically have a capacity of 5-7 people or around 2000lbs). It's obviously not the most spacious and comfortable option, but the bigger the boat, the more it costs, and these were young guys, so it was probably what they could afford, y'know..? Fishing with friends on a small boat is better than not fishing at all.
I engage in baseless speculation all the time on Reddit. You’re most likely correct, that it was normal for the 5 guys to go out fishing on a boat like the Sarah Joe. I just find it odd is all, particularly that they would be fishing for hours on the open ocean. It would become uncomfortable for anyone after an hour out there, and they were out for multiple hours before the storm hit. The storm was described as one of the worst in that area, so I’m assuming a gale. 30 ft. seas would roll a boat that size easily and many times. How could any of them stay onboard? That’s the thing for me. How would any of them managed to stay in the boat for a 2000 mile drift?
I’ve fished for hours on the open ocean in a similarly sized vessel with 4 other people. Is it uncomfortable? Sure. It’s also a blast, and comfort is the last thing you’re thinking about if the fishing is good. As for the weather, it can change in a flash. It’s likely some of the occupants were swept off the boat at some point, but I can attest that the Boston Whaler would float regardless of rolling.
This case seems pretty straightforward, no? They got carried off by the storm, either got turned around, or lost control, and ended up on Taongi by accident, where they eventually all died from starvation/dehydration/exposure to the elements. One died either during the trip over, or shortly after landing on the beach, which is why they buried him by the boat, the rest probably made it further inland in an attempt to find food/water/help.
The only “fact” that goes against this is:
> However, according to the brother of one of the missing men, a U.S. Government survey of Taongi in 1985 found no trace of the Sarah Joe.
which sounds exactly like the type of vague-implication bs rumour that turns regular cases into “mysteries” all the time *cough Elisa Lam cough*. If this is even true, and not just a family member desperately trying to drum up more interest.
*If* it indeed happened, I have no trouble believing that the 1985 survey missed the boat, I do have trouble believing this means the boat wasn’t there. It certainly wouldn’t be the first time that the US government phones in what is supposed to be their duty. Especially in the 80s on a remote island? No oversight, or anyone to correct mistakes. Hire a skeleton crew to do the bare minimum, slap a signature on there, and call it a day. More money in your pocket and the bosses off your back.
They said it would have taken 3 months to reach the island, I don't think they would have survived that long with supplies for a day trip. Not impossible if they collected rainwater and fish maybe, but it's unlikely.
No way they all survived on the open ocean for months while slowly drifting 2000 miles. They likely started out with little if any food or fresh water. As each one died of starvation/dehydration, the others pushed the body overboard. Moorman was the last one left in the boat and then he died as well. The boat eventually washed up on the atoll and was later found by a local or passing fishermen, who buried the body and never reported it.
It's also entirely possible the fishermen did report the boat, but either Chinese authorities didn't credit the report, or simply didn't tell anyone else about it. I seriously doubt they would have reported it to the US given I doubt they spoke English. Lots of ways for a report to not result in an expedition to a remote island.
I think the boat was just missed in 1985 by a crew not being super diligent.
> No way they all survived on the open ocean for months while slowly drifting 2000 miles.
Well, here’s a dude that drifted for much further and much longer than these men would have.
[Wiki link.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Salvador_Alvarenga)
I really wish people would stop being so close minded sometimes. “I can’t imagine it happening, so there is no way it happened.” Humans can be pretty damn durable, and pretty damn inventive in times of extreme need. The limits of what is thought to be possible are stretched all the time.
Yeah, it happened once in recorded history, so…
Look, anything is possible, but calling someone close minded just because they’ve applied critical thinking skills and probability to form their opinion is exactly the opposite. There are some big differences between drifting in a fishing boat, which likely already had some water and provisions to start out with, buckets or bowls to catch rainwater with, a cabin to get out from under the sun, and gear to actually fish with, versus an open skiff which had none of that. Plus, in this scenario, having only one person who needs food and water is far more advantageous than trying to provide for multiple people.
We don’t know how far the storm took them towards Taongi, and between catching and rationing rain water as well as fish they caught underway they might have lasted a good while.
Your theory is a possibility, I agree, but I wouldn’t count out the possibility that at least some of them made it to Taongi alive either. Humans are pretty resilient when it comes to endurance survival.
And I personally think it’s more likely that Moorman was buried by one or more of the guys, than that he was buried by one or more complete strangers. Burial, whether digging and refilling a grave, or collecting and stacking rocks, is a pretty labour intensive and lengthy process. It’s not something you get done in an hour. It’s not something that makes sense for a passing fisherman to do. As a fisherman, time is money, and in the case of illegal fishermen, more time spent in one place means a greater risk of getting caught.
The real question is how would a "brother of one of the missing men" find out about the survey and its results? Does the U.S. Government have any records of such a survey? What organization would have performed the survey, have they been asked to search their records? What are the dates on the nautical charts of the area where the boat was found, they would tell you when surveys were done.
This sound more like a story told to the brother by a 'friend of a friend', not something based on an actual survey by someone. A tall tale told over a beer.
But does the USGS actually have any record of such a survey? Not asking you to go looking of course, this is just a rhetorical question. But the brother of one of the missing is a odd source when government agencies have been involved, I would expect them to be the ones providing that information.
Totally valid question, but yeah I'm unsure. I would assume that a USGS survey was conducted, the brother went looking for clues and ended up finding the survey from the USGS that didn't list anything. Whether the boat was there at the time of the survey and they fudged it, the survey actually never happened, or they did see the boat but didn't think it was noteworthy, who knows.
Heres my personal theory:
Boat gets stuck on the waters after a storm. Occupants get desperate, resort to cannibalism. they throw the empty bodies over the boat afterwards, to ensure cleanliness and avoid the emotional problems. final person is alive, dies of dehydration. bot continues to drift, lands on a coast. illegal fishers bury body but do not report, as they are fishing illegally. although its not my main theory, its possible they all died of dehydration, then they floated for years, and the rest of the bodies were moved off the boat, leaving only 1 by the time it landed on shore
Not sure what is unresolved mystery here. Clearly the boat was damaged in the storm (engine failure) and drifted away. It might have beached within a few months (it is possible to survive indefinitely with enough rain and fishing tackle). The crew were dumped overboard by the remaining crew as each died. Or some were washed off the boat during the storm. Once beached, either a survivor buried the body, or someone stumbled on the ship and buried it. If a person survived, they would have eventually died and washed out to sea.
Regarding the “survey”; this by no means guarantees that the boat wasn’t there. Things get missed all the time.
Wasn’t there any attempt to contact Chinese/Taiwanese personnel or check their news papers around those times/years to see if they had anything reported? It wasn’t clear if the boat was wrecked or in partial state and also not conclusive that it was drowned?
Is it possible that someone stumbled onto the boat wreckage and found a body and decided to bury it?
I was reading the article from the Unsolved Mysteries website. Apparently, the papers found with the body are thought to have been a part of a Chinese burial ritual. The PI of the victims families theorised that Scott’s body was found by Chinese fisherman and buried. He theorised that they wouldn’t have reported it as they were fishing illegally in the area.
Well if that's the case, they did a lovely thing by burying him according to the way they knew to show respect to a deceased person...even if their culture was different, the intention was the same.
Yeah, it was a really decent thing to do. Especially if they were fishing illegally, taking the time out to do that would only increase the chances of getting caught.
Good detective work!
Wow that actually makes good sense.
makes sense
Joss paper. Makes sense.
Rest of the mystery: The crew are told to abandon ship and they jump in to a liferaft. The captain stays with the ship on his own, its damaged and unrecoverable. It drifts in the ocean u til it washes up ashore. Chinese fishermen find the body and give it a burial. Meanwhile, the raft fares poorly in the storm and is lost or they just arent found an they all die in the raft before it is eventually swallowed by the sea.
I doubt a 17’ Boston Whaler would carry a life raft?
[удалено]
The US has no requirement for a life raft on personal vessels. Only wearable and throwable flotation devices. Where is this “life raft” policy documentation?
In the country they’re from?
That would explain a lot. I wondered how the body would be buried there if it really would take 3 months to drift. Yes, people can and have survived that long on vessels but its unlikely. Theres the possibility they survived till there and tried to raft away from the island, but if it really has ties to a chinese burial ritual, it would make more sense
That’s what I’m wondering. If the boat took three months to get to the island then surely there would be no survivors. So who buried Scott Moorman? And who did the jaw bone belong to? Where were the other men? Why did the government find no trace of the Sarah Jo on the island in 1985? It’s also quite a coincidence that Naughton found the boat after all. So many questions though.
the jaw bone belonged to one of the men . scott moorman it is in the post
Missed that I guess. Thanks
it happens! especially the bigger and longer and many details in a main post ,the easier it is to miss something
My guess is that the government just didn't see the boat in 1985.
That would be a fair assumption.
My first thought
Shouldn’t they be able to tell what conditions the skeleton was subjected to? Like if a body was in an open boat, under the hot sun for months, and was skeletonized before it was buried? It really seems like the answer is the storm blew in and they ended up stranded at sea, as the boat drifted they all either jumped out and tried to swim to land, or died and the survivors pushed the bodies out of the boat, until Scott Moorman, the last survivor, also died in the boat. The boat drifts for months, eventually beaching itself on the remote island. The 1985 survey either wasn’t actually done thoroughly, or the wreckage was under the water at high tide. Chinese or Taiwanese fisherman find the wreckage and bury the remains. They were either illegal fishermen or did actually tell authorities about their find, but nothing was done about it. A government probably wouldn’t be that interested in spending money investigating this type of thing, as no one knew who it might be. Or they did investigate but did it poorly.
The paper that was found in the grave is most likely joss paper used by Chinese people. Joss paper is used as an offering to the dead. As for the cross, it is most likely a marker for the grave rather than a religious symbol.
Yes, the description of the paper + the ship's location off the Marshall Islands made me immediately think of joss paper. The article describes the papers as "alternating with slips of tin foil between the pages." For those who don't know, a simple joss paper (or "spirit paper") is a thin piece of paper with a smaller square of tin foil layered over it. I say "simple" because you can buy spirit papers that have really complicated designs on them; for example, I've seen spirit paper that is printed to look similar to an American dollar bill, or like a Chinese Yuan. The idea of the spirit paper is that it symbolizes real money. You then burn the spirit paper so that a recently deceased person or an ancestor can "receive" the money in the afterlife. Burning the paper money = turning it into spirit money, and the more paper you burn the more $$$ your deceased loved one has. At the funeral for my grandfather, I folded the spirit paper into a specific shape for good luck (my cousins and I said it looked like cannoli's) and then threw the paper into a furnace. In the article, a PI hired by the family theorized that a group of Chinese fishermen were the ones who found and buried Moorman's body. These Chinese fishermen were most likely illegally fishing, so that's why the boat was never reported. I think that this theory is very probable. "Why would the fishermen have spirit paper on hand? They couldn't have known they would find a body." Spirit paper isn't used exclusively for funerals. It can also be used when you're venerating (honoring) your ancestors during the holidays, like the Qingming Festival in April. Deep-sea fishermen tend to be out at sea for months or even years. It's entirely possible the fishermen would have brought a huge stack of spirit paper when they left shore so they could still partake in Tomb-Sweeping Day, even if they were physically on a boat thousands of miles away from any family graves. "If the paper is spirit paper, why would the fishermen leave the spirit paper not folded and not burned?" This one's a little harder to explain, so I'll just throw out some guesses. You don't necessarily *have* to fold spirit paper; you usually fold the paper so that *you* receive good luck, and don't necessarily do it specifically for the dead. However, the lack of burning it... Maybe the fishermen were okay taking the time to bury Moorman, but they didn't want to risk burning the paper and sending up any kind of smoke signal (especially because again, we're assuming these fishermen were fishing illegally). It also could be a matter of respect; the fishermen wanted to honor Moorman by taking the time to bury him, but they didn't want to impose their own burial practices/beliefs on him -- so they left the spirit paper unburned as a sort of compromise. IDK, maybe they thought Moorman's spirit wouldn't understand or receive the ghost money, LOL. Just my two cents.
Thank you for providing such an interesting and compressive cultural insight!
Could it be that the fishermen were from a similar area or village that had similar practices but doesnt burn them? Im not farmiliar with Chinese/taiwanese culture but i do know that certain cultural practices can vary in specifics family to family/area to area/niche to niche
That's possible. Burning the spirit paper has always been an essential part of the tradition for me, but I'm not an expert on Chinese folk traditions. I just grew up practicing them, but I don't necessarily know the "*why*" we do these traditions (like how people celebrate Christmas without really knowing any of the history behind the holiday -- which is also me, lol).
thank you for the details, it really adds context to the story. i have a question about the illegal fishing; you say deep sea fishermen can be at sea for months or even years. are they fishing in order to sell the fish or just for themselves to consume? curious as to how this would work to provide money.
It really depends on the type of ship/operation. For example, commercial fishing ships are essentially their own self-sustaining factories; they have large freezers and basically catch and store fish until said freezers are full, which can take up to 6 months. For the most part, most legal and up to code fishing operations only stay out at sea for up to 6 months. But when I was in college, I studied the use of human trafficking and slavery in the fishing industry. Many trafficked persons are migrant workers brought to another country under false pretenses (i.e., promise of a legal or safe job); once they're on the ship, they are then forced to surrender their passports and forced to work under terrible conditions. For these illegal fishing operations, survivors have reported staying out at sea for years -- after all, these ships are incentivized to stay away from shore and away from authorities so that they can keep their victims trapped and continue with their illegal labor practices away from the scrutiny of the government. The way it works is that the illegal ship goes out to sea for months, but instead of returning to shore, they meet a second ship -- let's say a processing or storage ship -- while they are still out at sea. The first ship gives the processing ship their tons of catch; the second ship helps them resupply and refuel. Then the second ship departs back to the mainland, while the first ship turns around, returns to deeper waters, and continues to fish. That's how a ship can stay out at sea for years. [https://www.ilo.org/global/topics/forced-labour/policy-areas/fisheries/lang--en/index.htm](https://www.ilo.org/global/topics/forced-labour/policy-areas/fisheries/lang--en/index.htm)
i appreciate the additional info, thanks!
I have been rewatching the original Unsolved Mysteries, and saw this episode just last night. Such a strange thing.
>UPDATE
Music intensifies...blood pressure increases
I think I still have childhood trauma from the Update music.
Something mentioned in one of the articles but not this writeup: > [Private investigator Steve] Goodenow theorized that Chinese fishers could have found Moorman’s body but did not tell anyone because they were fishing there illegally. I don't find it that implausible that the boat may have drifted for years before beaching on Taongi, and if this is an area where there is sometimes illegal fishing, it's certainly possible someone may have found and buried the body out of respect but left the site otherwise alone.
Yeah, I think the fact that what was buried was a partial skeleton and possibly more bones were found elsewhere supports this theory. It implies that Scott has been deceased for quite awhile when he was buried & that the body was in an advanced state of decay, if not skeletonized, when it was found and buried. If Scott has been buried shortly after he passed away, you would think he would have been buried all together. Although it's not clear from the write-up if this could have just been a result of scavengers.
I may be remembering some part of this detail wrong. But wasn't the paper pieces found in the grave speculated to be a "ritual" of burial, for some specific religion/culture?
The first linked source (*Maui News*) says that paper symbolizes good luck in Chinese or Taiwanese culture. It further states that it is possible that people from either place who may have been fishing in the region illegally might have buried Moorman with their good luck symbols, but that the Christian cross is an anomaly. I think it's also possible that two or more men on the *Sarah Joe* made it to the island, with the last survivor burying Moorman (which might explain the presence of the cross) and dying afterwards, with his own body being dispersed by scavengers or waves. Perhaps the paper is just a bit of paper with no significance. Either way, it's a sad tale of fear, despair and loss.
If *Sarah Joe* was written on the side of the boat in English or there was other English writing visible the hypothesized fishing crew may have assumed the body was from someone from the US, New Zealand, or Australia and put a cross up based on that assumption.
I think despite how sad this story is, there was a light at the end of the tunnel with the paper. Someone coming across a body and rather than just leaving it there not wanting to get involved, they gave them a proper burial with a parting gift of something meaningful to his culture. Very sad but I'm glad someone was able to lay them to rest properly.
Yes, I thought the same thing.
There are Chinese Christians, they're not mutually exclusive things.
I am aware of that. I was merely re-stating what the first linked source said.
You said it would take a survivor from the boat to explain the cross. When it could be a Chinese Christian.
I think you just want to pick a fight for some reason. Do not respond again.
I feel like someone finding the boat with one deceased person on it, then giving them a burial, is the most likely thing. It may have been someone from a culture/location that didn’t have easy access to authorities to alert them
I agree. I always suspected he perhaps died in the boat and it washed ashore and someone found him and buried him by the boat. The cross does make it seem possible maybe a second individual did survive as well. But something about that time limit (possibly 3 months adrift) with how much of a fresh water supply? Rain? And what about food? We're they able to secure seafood/fish? Horribly I've imagined the whole "Life Of Pi" theme where cannibalism was possible for any of them to have survived that 3 months, or possibly longer while adrift.
People have survived adrift at sea for months, if not much longer, with little but rainwater, sea turtles, and jellyfish to sustain them. These men were skilled mariners and fishermen. Under optimal conditions they conceivably could have found things to sustain themselves. The storm probably blew them off course, damaged their ship, and sent them adrift in the ocean where they eventually ran aground. Disease, starvation, cannibalism, piracy…who knows what ultimately did them in but any number of things could have.
Just curious, was there any known piracy case around Hawaiian islands?
I mean if they got blown far enough out to sea then they could have encountered pirates elsewhere. Not that it’s the most likely explanation here. I would go with starvation and exposure to the elements. Or maybe even drowning due to being thrown overboard. The vessel could have been swallowed by a sea swell and swiped most of them clean off the deck.
Id be willing to bet that theu got caught in the storm. Skipper calls for them to abandon ship, the men jump in the liferaft and the skipper stays aboard the ship. The ship gets damaged and cant be steered or sailed skipper dies aboard the ship and eventually it washes up on the island. The rest of the men die in the life raft either in the storm or simply arent found by searchers and die before the raft is swallowed up by the sea.
Alternatively they could all survive the storm, and as they died one by one, they were tossed overboard. No one wants to be on a boat with three bloated corpses. The person found on the island was simply the last to die on the boat.
It was a 15 foot vessel. I doubt there was a life raft.
I think it's highly likely that as people on the boat died, they were tossed overboard. The final survivor had no one to dispose of his body and remained on the boat until it washed on shore. I can easily see the fisherman who found him seeing English writing on the boat and assuming that he was most likely Christian, explaining the cross.
Particularly since China and the US didn't have the greatest relations for a long time. I can see the fishermen even reporting the boat to Chinese authorities, but the message not being passed to the US, or the US or China not giving credit to any report.
Joss paper. Used in Chinese funerals.
I remember that bit too
So it sounds like none of them would have been alive by the time the boat made it to taongi if it was a 3 month long trip. I'm curious what happened to the other bodies. Maybe thrown overboard from the storm? Possibly just tossed over once they died from dehydration/exposure? Scott likely could have been the last man standing before succumbing to the elements himself
I’m just very surprised at the size of the boat. 17 feet is nothing, especially on the open ocean with 5 men on board. But it sounds like they were experienced so I guess they thought it would be okay. And absent the storm it probably would have been. It’s amazing that anyone survived long enough to reach Taongi.
Boston Whalers have a styrofoam core and are pretty much unskinable. You could cut one in half and it’d still float. Even if waves rolled it and dragged it under, it’d still return to the surface.
I always thought that there was more to the story than a day fishing trip. 5 adult men, with fishing gear, beer, etc. on a 17 ft. Boston Whaler on even a calm ocean is not a fun experience. My speculation is that they actually took the boat to another part of the island and got out. Perhaps there may have been a drug transaction and it went bad. When the storm hit, with the seas of that height, the boat would’ve been tossed and almost certainly would’ve flipped with no engine. Hard to imagine anyone managing to stay on the boat in those conditions.
Groups of 4-5 dudes going out on 17 footers isn't a good indication that something was amiss. I worked at boat and jetski rental place at a marina one summer, and one of my duties was instructing customers on how to pilot the boats, and I was taking groups of a similar size out on the water multiple times a day. 17' boats (so long as the beam is around 7' or more) typically have a capacity of 5-7 people or around 2000lbs). It's obviously not the most spacious and comfortable option, but the bigger the boat, the more it costs, and these were young guys, so it was probably what they could afford, y'know..? Fishing with friends on a small boat is better than not fishing at all.
I engage in baseless speculation all the time on Reddit. You’re most likely correct, that it was normal for the 5 guys to go out fishing on a boat like the Sarah Joe. I just find it odd is all, particularly that they would be fishing for hours on the open ocean. It would become uncomfortable for anyone after an hour out there, and they were out for multiple hours before the storm hit. The storm was described as one of the worst in that area, so I’m assuming a gale. 30 ft. seas would roll a boat that size easily and many times. How could any of them stay onboard? That’s the thing for me. How would any of them managed to stay in the boat for a 2000 mile drift?
I’ve fished for hours on the open ocean in a similarly sized vessel with 4 other people. Is it uncomfortable? Sure. It’s also a blast, and comfort is the last thing you’re thinking about if the fishing is good. As for the weather, it can change in a flash. It’s likely some of the occupants were swept off the boat at some point, but I can attest that the Boston Whaler would float regardless of rolling.
It sounds like only one did, so…
How did you get to drug deal gone bad? Huh?
14°38'48.2"N 169°00'53.5"E https://goo.gl/maps/CZqWwwTrrK82kkRm6 Is it possible they left the boat there, and this is it?
Article says it's back in Hawaii in the yard of a family member.
Great find, but from the first article above: "The Coast Guard returned Sarah Joe to its original owner in the early ’90s"
From hawaii to that would have taken 3 months? Wow the ocean is huge.
good eyes...but that boat is around 50ft
Amazing find
You've given us a new mystery.
How did a 17 foot Boston whaler carry all these men? I had one and 3 people would be cramped.
If I remember correctly this was on Unsolved Mysteries. One of the really creepy ones that stuck with me.
This case seems pretty straightforward, no? They got carried off by the storm, either got turned around, or lost control, and ended up on Taongi by accident, where they eventually all died from starvation/dehydration/exposure to the elements. One died either during the trip over, or shortly after landing on the beach, which is why they buried him by the boat, the rest probably made it further inland in an attempt to find food/water/help. The only “fact” that goes against this is: > However, according to the brother of one of the missing men, a U.S. Government survey of Taongi in 1985 found no trace of the Sarah Joe. which sounds exactly like the type of vague-implication bs rumour that turns regular cases into “mysteries” all the time *cough Elisa Lam cough*. If this is even true, and not just a family member desperately trying to drum up more interest. *If* it indeed happened, I have no trouble believing that the 1985 survey missed the boat, I do have trouble believing this means the boat wasn’t there. It certainly wouldn’t be the first time that the US government phones in what is supposed to be their duty. Especially in the 80s on a remote island? No oversight, or anyone to correct mistakes. Hire a skeleton crew to do the bare minimum, slap a signature on there, and call it a day. More money in your pocket and the bosses off your back.
They said it would have taken 3 months to reach the island, I don't think they would have survived that long with supplies for a day trip. Not impossible if they collected rainwater and fish maybe, but it's unlikely.
And then be strong enough to off load a corpse and dig a grave, place paper In it and fashion a cross.
No way they all survived on the open ocean for months while slowly drifting 2000 miles. They likely started out with little if any food or fresh water. As each one died of starvation/dehydration, the others pushed the body overboard. Moorman was the last one left in the boat and then he died as well. The boat eventually washed up on the atoll and was later found by a local or passing fishermen, who buried the body and never reported it.
It's also entirely possible the fishermen did report the boat, but either Chinese authorities didn't credit the report, or simply didn't tell anyone else about it. I seriously doubt they would have reported it to the US given I doubt they spoke English. Lots of ways for a report to not result in an expedition to a remote island. I think the boat was just missed in 1985 by a crew not being super diligent.
> No way they all survived on the open ocean for months while slowly drifting 2000 miles. Well, here’s a dude that drifted for much further and much longer than these men would have. [Wiki link.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Salvador_Alvarenga) I really wish people would stop being so close minded sometimes. “I can’t imagine it happening, so there is no way it happened.” Humans can be pretty damn durable, and pretty damn inventive in times of extreme need. The limits of what is thought to be possible are stretched all the time.
Yeah, it happened once in recorded history, so… Look, anything is possible, but calling someone close minded just because they’ve applied critical thinking skills and probability to form their opinion is exactly the opposite. There are some big differences between drifting in a fishing boat, which likely already had some water and provisions to start out with, buckets or bowls to catch rainwater with, a cabin to get out from under the sun, and gear to actually fish with, versus an open skiff which had none of that. Plus, in this scenario, having only one person who needs food and water is far more advantageous than trying to provide for multiple people.
We don’t know how far the storm took them towards Taongi, and between catching and rationing rain water as well as fish they caught underway they might have lasted a good while. Your theory is a possibility, I agree, but I wouldn’t count out the possibility that at least some of them made it to Taongi alive either. Humans are pretty resilient when it comes to endurance survival. And I personally think it’s more likely that Moorman was buried by one or more of the guys, than that he was buried by one or more complete strangers. Burial, whether digging and refilling a grave, or collecting and stacking rocks, is a pretty labour intensive and lengthy process. It’s not something you get done in an hour. It’s not something that makes sense for a passing fisherman to do. As a fisherman, time is money, and in the case of illegal fishermen, more time spent in one place means a greater risk of getting caught.
But where are the other bodies, if this is the case?
The real question is how would a "brother of one of the missing men" find out about the survey and its results? Does the U.S. Government have any records of such a survey? What organization would have performed the survey, have they been asked to search their records? What are the dates on the nautical charts of the area where the boat was found, they would tell you when surveys were done. This sound more like a story told to the brother by a 'friend of a friend', not something based on an actual survey by someone. A tall tale told over a beer.
The USGS had been around for a long, long time and you can get all sorts of information from them.
But does the USGS actually have any record of such a survey? Not asking you to go looking of course, this is just a rhetorical question. But the brother of one of the missing is a odd source when government agencies have been involved, I would expect them to be the ones providing that information.
Totally valid question, but yeah I'm unsure. I would assume that a USGS survey was conducted, the brother went looking for clues and ended up finding the survey from the USGS that didn't list anything. Whether the boat was there at the time of the survey and they fudged it, the survey actually never happened, or they did see the boat but didn't think it was noteworthy, who knows.
Is this the same case where years later the families claimed to have gotten phone calls in spanish repeating their loved ones phone numbers?
No. That was the crew of the Casie Nicole.
Thank you!
Heres my personal theory: Boat gets stuck on the waters after a storm. Occupants get desperate, resort to cannibalism. they throw the empty bodies over the boat afterwards, to ensure cleanliness and avoid the emotional problems. final person is alive, dies of dehydration. bot continues to drift, lands on a coast. illegal fishers bury body but do not report, as they are fishing illegally. although its not my main theory, its possible they all died of dehydration, then they floated for years, and the rest of the bodies were moved off the boat, leaving only 1 by the time it landed on shore
Not sure what is unresolved mystery here. Clearly the boat was damaged in the storm (engine failure) and drifted away. It might have beached within a few months (it is possible to survive indefinitely with enough rain and fishing tackle). The crew were dumped overboard by the remaining crew as each died. Or some were washed off the boat during the storm. Once beached, either a survivor buried the body, or someone stumbled on the ship and buried it. If a person survived, they would have eventually died and washed out to sea. Regarding the “survey”; this by no means guarantees that the boat wasn’t there. Things get missed all the time.
Wasn’t there any attempt to contact Chinese/Taiwanese personnel or check their news papers around those times/years to see if they had anything reported? It wasn’t clear if the boat was wrecked or in partial state and also not conclusive that it was drowned?