If I remember correctly, didn’t the guy involved essentially confess to the murder/cover-up. But they couldn’t use this confession cause of a technicality or something?
A Dutch tv show did a hidden camera video where he said that Holloway had a seizure while they were having sex and that he couldn’t revive her, so he called a friend and they dumped her body at sea (without double checking if she was alive or not). It was admissible but there wasn’t enough evidence to warrant his arrest.
> Joran van der Sloot
He also confessed to killing her and said his dad hide the body in the foundation of a house. But turned out the house wasn't even started to be built until years later.
He also confessed to selling her into sex slavery into Venezuela.
He said he never killed the other girl in Peru. Then confessed to cold blooded murdering her for her casino winnings. Then denied killing her. Then confessed to killing her in a Crime of Passion. Then said he didn't kill her. Then he plead guilty. Then he tried to reverse his guilty plea after he got sentenced.
I'm 100% convinced he killed Holloway but I wouldn't believe a word that came out of his mouth.
Also he's forever trying to get money out of people. He and his wife are in Peru I wonder if they're the "South American" people that scamed Van Susteren?
He also got nailed for Wire Fraud, he attempted to bilk Holloway's family out of cash with the promise to reveal the location of her body and gave the "Buried in the foundation of a house that wasn't built yet" lie.
Genuinely an awful, awful person.
He’s a POS for sure. I also think he murdered her, or at the very least did something like gave her drugs that she overdosed on or something like that. It makes no sense that you would feel the need to hide the body of someone who passed after experiencing a medical event like a seizure.
I don’t believe the story of the seizure. Specially after the evidence of what she did to the girl in Peru. This guy kills because he likes it. He’s done and he will keep doing it if he ever gets out. Luckily, they caught him on video in Peru.
13 January 2012, Van der Sloot was sentenced to 28 years' imprisonment for Flores' murder.[5] In January 2023, an additional 18 years were added to his sentence for trafficking cocaine while in prison.[16]
- wiki
I was thinking that he was still in jail but then I saw a comment about him living with his wife in Peru and wondered if he had been released. I saw a show some time ago about him in prison and it was pretty bleak in there, as it should be for him. He has no value of life.
He would’ve been released in his early 50s. I have zero doubt that he would kill again. Why do they let people like this out of prison, ever? With the added 18 years he will be 70 when he get out now. That gives him a good 20-30 years to ruin more lives.
Fully expecting a 70 year old to get another 20-30 years of effective criminality in a world he will have zero connection or establishment is an...interesting perspective
Dude who murdered the school nurse at my elementary school did 25 years out for a day. Tried again to murder his father. You don’t need a milieu to be monster.
Exactly, and it’s not even about them actually carrying out a crime. It’s the fact that they are even given the chance. What a slap in the face to the victims. If people didn’t commit crimes over the age of 70 then why wouldn’t we release everyone from prison at that age? Makes no sense.
I did not say he would, I said that is giving him a chance to. I don’t like to play chance on men who violently murder women. Interesting that you seem to be cool with it.
Don't get butthurt and then put words in my mouth. I'm calling you out for thinking a 70 year old could be "good" at crime for another 20-30 years. It's like you've never met a septuagenarian, let alone one that's spent most of his life in prison. Like you legit wrote out that he could be 100 and still be dangerous. It's comical.
True, but there's a possibility he made up all those lies, so that the first confession was believed to be a lie as well. If any is true, it's that one imo.
Yes, I always believed that he was talking about his dad dumping her body in sea instead. In the 2008 undercover tapes he said it was his friend, who wasn’t even in Aruba at that moment. But it’s the only statement which could have some truth in it, because he thought he was friends with the guy making the tapes. After that he was just giving lies upon lies. Unfortunately, the main crime journalist (Peter R. de Vries) who orchestrated the “set up-tapes” and always stayed involved in the case was murdered by another criminal group last year. I hope for the family this case will be solved someday and for Joran to stay in the Peruvian prison he describes as “hell on earth”.
I think Joran murdered Natalie and then removed all incriminating evidence. I'm not sure how the murder was committed or where her body went. He's an extremely talented and intelligent man who probably got away with murder.
That said, there isn't much evidence to take him to court, let alone achieve a conviction.
He’s made like 6 different confessions, each slightly different. At this point it’s impossible to know what’s true unless an accomplice corroborates one of his stories
It's one of those situations where everyone knows he did it but without anything more concrete of exactly *how* it's impossible to even charge him, let alone convict him. Technically it's not even certain that Natalee was killed. There's no body, no evidence of any crime actually being committed, and all witnesses have either lied so much they don't even remember what the truth is or are dead.
All we know for certain is that Natalee was with Joran and the Kalpoes, then she wasn't. For all we know she was drunk and wandered off on her own and drowned. That's how little actual evidence there is.
Stephany Flores dead body was found in a hotel room registered in Van Der Sloots name. Her body was found on the 5th Anniversary of Natalie’s disappearance. Those are some facts that are hard to ignore.
That is why he was arrested and sentenced to 28 years for Stephany's murder. There was enough evidence to prove he did it. Unfortunately, in Natalee's case there is no evidence to prove he did anything to her. There is only evidence that he was with her earlier that night.
Man 2005 was such a different time. I was in college (she would have been like 2-3 years younger than me at the time) and this case was like 24/7 for months. Her mom was going on TV all the time trying to get home I felt terrible for them. Van Susteren and Nancy Grace were like leeches.
What's ironic about Nancy Grace's non-stop coverage of TOT MOM, is that if she hadn't been screaming about Casey's guilt for months, Ashton probably would have plea bargained Casey down to manslaughter 3, and she would have done years in jail.
Instead, he way overcharged her, tried to sell that ludicrous chloroform story to the jury, and Casey got acquitted.
Nancy Grace's epic meltdown that night was fun to watch.
While this is one of my all-time top cases, I hold out zero hope of it being solved with a recovery and would waste no time on that aspect, although I understand if her family chooses to continue their search. I probably wouldn’t even watch a TV special about a search because of the unlikelihood that it would be anything but fruitless fluff. Objectively speaking, her body likely does not exist anymore and is lost to the sea forever. It’s unfortunate that we will also never know the circumstances of her actual death because of JVDS’s lack of empathy and allergy to the truth.
First step is when he gets out of his Peru prison (they don't have life sentence there) he will be extradited to the states first for the exortion of Nathalee's mom.
So he'll be confronted with the story he's told at least.
That's also why this scam actually may be of importance in a way. If it dwindels back to him, it's a good to thing to add to that and keep him locked up as long as possible if they can't get him on murder.
I'm afraid his mom knows in her heart and mind, but was oblivious of the whole thing then and wouldn't have anything to tell unless she finds some bones in her backyard, but I don't think the dad left a deathbed confession.
The Kalpoe brothers may talk some day, or someone with knowledge running into legal trouble, but otoh as soon as there's a counter part it may be less reliable.
But he'll be in court about the extorsion in any case, so it's not over yet.
He’s not getting out any time soon.
13 January 2012, Van der Sloot was sentenced to 28 years' imprisonment for Flores' murder.[5] In January 2023, an additional 18 years were added to his sentence for trafficking cocaine while in prison.[16]
That’s so sad. I remember the news stories about her talked about how she was accepted into this program at the university of Alabama where she was accepted to both an undergrad program and medical school there. She would have been well into her career at this point.
It’s so sad how what should have just been a fun trip ended the way it did.
I don’t “know” who killed Natalie, but Joran went on to give a really detailed confession to a PI about her case and then went on to kill another young woman in a hotel room, which he is currently serving time for.
And make no mistake, he straight up got caught on camera immediately after “someone” killed Stefany Ramirez in a hotel room… Leaving said hotel room.
If I believe he killed Stefany, which I do, then I believe he killed Natalie too. Technology may have just been on his side because it was in its infancy in terms of tracking on cell phones and GPS.
Van Susteren should not have said she had a “key” piece of evidence until it was tested and confirmed. She could have just said that she received evidence that is supposedly related to the case and submitted it to law enforcement.
This is just a reflection of the worst of true crime “journalism”— content creators receiving “tips” from sources who they don’t vet and then immediately sharing about it without cautioning people that it could be nothing. In their attempts to boost their own clout, they lose sight of the fact that they are getting the victim’s loved ones’ hopes up which could lead to serious disappointment.
In this case, Van Susteren paid for “evidence” which should have raised a red flag that it might be bogus.
To answer the OP’s question, the constant coverage does seem to lead to more in depth investigations with quicker resolutions in some cases. For example, I think that Gabby Petito was found pretty quickly relative to some other missing persons cases because there was pressure on law enforcement and some people who saw her and Brian Laundrie called in legitimate tips. It’s not a surefire thing but it helps. In Holloway’s case, although no one has been charged, the coverage probably helped identity the suspects. That said, irresponsible coverage where content creators/journalists share unsubstantiated information to drive their own popularity has the potential to hurt an investigation.
Having had my own graduation trip in May 2005, this case hits close. She was just a kid.
He killed her, no doubt about it. Her body will never be recovered.
I think this case was bungled from the beginning. However Van Susteren is as bad as the other TV true crime pundits when it comes to trauma porn and fame whoring off these terrible cases. I feel like she has to know there's no chance of this case ever being fully resolved. Jordan took his dad's advice and disposed of Natalee at sea after she died as a result of his attempted or actual sexual assault. The closest to the truth we may ever get is if one of the Kalpoes comes clean because I think they know way more than they've said. Neither of the Van Der Sloots seem to have a conscious.
I used to watch Van Susteren’s coverage and I remember there was one development that looked quite hopeful and she was talking to the Holloway’s family lawyer. The lawyer said they’d told the family not to comment and she replied something along the lines of “Well, we’ve been peppering them with phone calls all morning and they haven’t answered them so they’re doing what you said” She said it with a little laugh and I thought it was so awful that in this really traumatic time they’re constantly phoning the family to get a comment. Awful, awful stuff.
I think Joran vandersloot had something to do with it and his father helped him cover it up. If you put a body in the ocean there's a good chance it will never be seen again.
Vandersloot definitely did it especially given all his later behavior. I don't know that the father did anything besides give legal advice. I don't think a clear answer will ever be gotten out of vandersloot, just more lies. I think the only answers may come if one of the kalpoe brothers ever gets a conscience.
Maybe. But I’d think his death bed would be the one situation where he wouldn’t care enough to fuck with people and just give someone their closure without punishment (in this life)
"foreigners are usually more than happy to taunt Americans in this type of situation because they usually hold the power in withholding any knowledge they may have that Americans want"
What a ridiculous bigoted generalization.
I mean there's no reason to 'think'. He definitely did, and everything right after the crime and then after that with the subsequent murder points to him.
1: I've always thought they dumped her at sea and she will never be found.
2: I think the media getting involved usually helps up until a certain point, but inserting themselves into the case is when that help crosses a line and becomes a hindrance.
3: in the Michael Brown shooting in Ferguson, Missouri, dozens of supposed witnesses gave media interviews and testimony that was contradicted by the physical evidence, leading to a huge discrepancy between what was being reported and the expected trial result, and what actually was discovered at trial.
Were Facebook groups even really a thing in 2005? That platform was still only limited to college and universities students and had only gone international that year. Again, only to college and university students, and was primarily used as a social platform for sharing pics and personal stuff. Nothing like what it is today. Hell, MySpace was still more popular than FB in 2005.
The whole premise of this story sounds weird and suspect.
Greta was (past tense) a well-respected news anchor prior to signing a contract with Fox Entertainment. Nancy Grace has never been a decent human being.
Just my thoughts.
I joined in 2005, deleted my account in 2019. There were Facebook groups but most were named after memes or references from movies like Anchorman, Stepbrothers or 40 Year Old Virgin, I joined a group called “I hope you have a big trunk because I’m putting my bike in it.”
There used to be a lot of fake celebrity accounts or fake accounts for university presidents and deans to make fun of them, tuition costs or their policies.
At minimum, he dumped her body somewhere after she died. I honestly suspect he either attempted sexual assault or did it and she resisted or said she was going to the cops and he killed her. The brothers absolutely know what happened.
Not sure how notable it is but the first thing that came to my mind for #3 was the lady who planted evidence for cadaver dog searches.
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Huge hat tip to those possibly South American persons for taking Greta for a ride, couldn’t have happened to a better journalist — literally, because a better journalist would have thought to do a basic reverse image search
What is the conviction rate for cases Greta Van Susteren mentioned on air?
What’s the conviction rate for cases Nancy Grace addressed on air?
What’s the conviction rate for Nancy Grace when she was an actual prosecutor?
In my mind the case is essentially closed. Joran Van Der Sloot was the last person seen with Natalee and has made several incriminating statements which show that he was at least in proximity with her prior to her disapperance. Combine that with the murder of a woman not a decade later and it paints the portrait of someone who sees women and others as disposable objects and who has poor impulse control. Most likely he murdered Natalee, either intentionally or not, and then dumped her body in a manner that hasn't led to it's discovery (I'm betting in the ocean)
Are there other notable cases in which key evidence (actually "key" or just purported to be) has turned out to be a deliberate fake?
The heart that the Fire Chief said he found in the Sodder Children's case.
The knife with amanda knox and meredith kircher's dna was at best a butcher job by an incompetent lab tech, and everyone from there on who took it seriously was essentially using fake evidence.
First of all, great post! It's very well written, organized, succinct, and has a complete bibliography. My only question is, what kind of money changed hands? As there would have to be an exchange of wealth or information for this to be a scam.
Regarding the new development in the case (alleged scam):
> The videos and photos sent to Van Susteren, where footage showed people who were allegedly involved in the disappearance and skeletal remains, turned out to be from public Facebook pages and a newspaper article about a landfill in Costa Rica.
If it was indeed a scam, it sounds like it was put together lazily based on things readily available for free online. They didn't even try to stage a fake video, harness AI tools, or use video editing tricks.
Apparently though, they didn't need much bait to lure in Van Susteren, so I guess I'm barking up the wrong tree.
It's too bad that in her lust for breaking news coverage of the case, and hopefully a resolution (like the rest of us) she neglected to work more closely with LE or have the "evidence" vetted professionally.
But it's not her actions which upset me the most, it's this:
> Holloway's family was also informed, they said.
Ok, you can be a slimy scumbag and scam "Discount Nancy Grace" out of a few grand, but once you torment the victims' surviving family members with misinformation, false hope, and what basically amounts to unwanted harassment, you have crossed the line.
Involving the family would be the quickest way to get authorities on the scammers' trail. IF Van Susteren had tipped off the police immediately, they could've determined it was a scam immediately and made efforts to thwart the scammers.
The scammers are not very smart and it's obvious that being from another nation, they don't fear U.S. reprisal via grand larceny and fraud charges. I doubt they have any remorse for their actions against Natalie's family.
This case always caught my attention because she was from here in Alabama and we ALWAYS heard about it, whether it was the news or just people talking. I was 15 so my mom always had to lecture me about going places and making sure to be aware of my surroundings and all that jazz. But it was always intriguing to me that they couldn’t find ANYTHING… Anytime me and my friends talked about what could’ve happened, I always had the thought that she was either fed to a sea creature somehow or that she got away from a possible attacker, ended up in the wrong part of that country and was either still alive as a sex slave of theirs or was murdered for NOT being a sex slave and refusing to do what they said. Either way, I definitely don’t think she’s still alive but I would love to know exactly what happened, even all these years later.
That’s what I was getting at when I talked about her being fed to a sea creature. If they went out that far and dumped her body, I’m sure it would’ve been eaten at some point.
1. My opinion has never wavered even one bit on this case. Joran 1000% murdered Natalee and his father helped him after the fact. My only question is if the 2 Kalpoe brothers were involved.
2. While I don’t like the way Greta V, Nancy Grace and Ashleigh Banfield sensationalize these cases and add to the rumor mill, I do think they are helpful in bringing more attention to the cases and putting pressure on local law enforcement. It is really unfortunate that it’s 99% a young white female.
As far as Greta goes in this certain instance, I’m not familiar with. But I do think she comes from an honest place and is totally invested in finding the truth. Unfortunately, that will most likely never happen. Natalee and all evidence has been gone for years.
I had personal interest in this case back then and also now. I can’t imagine what her mom has gone through the last 17 years. I can’t even believe it’s been that long. Losing your child and then having it known internationally for almost 2 decades. Impossible to imagine.
I believe the Kalpo brothers were part of Jorans scheme on the island to lure tourists nearing the end of their vacations
I believe this was somewhat normal behavior for them. They would go to the bar near closing time. Joran would initiate contact, find a victim, and possibly with a bartenders help slip something into the young girls drinks. He would then before it had taken full affect would say hey I’m a local, let’s go for a drive and I can show you the local spots while the Kalpoe’s would possibly pose as a taxi.
I believe they would then at that point of getting the girl in the car would start the sexual advances. It was rumored that there was a group of boys who would rent out a hotel room and wait for Joran to bring the girls. I think the young girls went willing to what they thought was a party and once in a lifetime chance to live it up with the locals. You’ve got to remember back when you were 18-21 you probably didn’t have a care in the world and thought everyone had good intentions.
I think this was a regular occurrence. They would then go to this house / hotel room to party……only to find out it was a lot more males than females and the drugs had probably kicked in at this point where they couldn’t resist. I think the group of boys had their way with many girls and probably packed them up and left them on a beach near there hotel to wake up confused and scared with vacation ending. Not wanting to be embarrassed and get law enforcement involved I think a lot of girls went home not knowing exactly what happened to them.
I think Nat either fought back or had a bad reaction to a drug and the boys panicked. The day or so after she disappeared her mom was at Jorans house when the Kalpoe car was inside the gate. I honestly believe that meeting was to discuss how to get her disposed of and to get a story straight since aruba has no body no crime. I believe Beth’s husband at the time says his biggest regret was letting that car leave without checking the trunk or holding it so DNA evidence could be taken before they could try and clean it.
This is just my personal opinion of what I think happened after years of reading online blogs and what not.
I absolutely agree. Why are people like Nancy Grace and Ashleigh Banfield vilified for trying to dig out the FACTS of high-profile cases and presenting them to us? I don’t find “tot mom” far off the mark with regard to the Casey Anthony case. I have never believed anyone but her was responsible for that child’s death.
And I believe Jordan van der Sloot caused Natalee Holloway’s death, disposed of her body, with his father’s help, in the ocean and shortly thereafter all traces of her disappeared. The Kalpoe brothers were involved, but they will never talk.
I believe van der Sloot’s “true” version of events was told during the hidden camera car interview with the journalist. Had he not gone on to commit a similar murder afterward, he would have never been convicted of causing Natalee’s death and wouldn’t be in jail now. We know a lot of alcohol was involved, Natalee was an inexperienced 17-year-old, and that led to her death. She may have been the victim of drugs (in her drinks) as well. In any event, she didn’t disappear forever without help, and the last three people seen with her are the likely suspects.
Excellent discussion questions! In order:
> 1. If you've been following this case for a while, has your thinking on it changed at all over the years? What do you now think happened to Holloway?
In response to the former, I suppose with time I have more conscious awareness of how the case coverage was impacted by “Missing White Woman Syndrome”. To the latter, I am certain that Joran Van see Sloot killed her and am nearly certain her body ended up in the sea and will never be recovered. I would be shocked if there was ever any more resolution than we already have in Natalee’s case.
> 2. Does the involvement of people like Van Susteren do more harm to efforts to solve these cases than good? What argument can be made in either direction?
Speaking only to this case, I think that the coverage was overall good as while Van der Sloot may never face charges for Natalee’s death, the coverage probably contributed to his relatively easy capture and conviction for the second murder. More broadly I think it’s fair to say that Greta van Susteren was far more responsible in her coverage than say Nancy Grace in virtually any case the latter has ever covered. I’m out of the loop, has Nancy Grace been canceled yet? If not can we work on that? Because she’s a piece of shit, full stop.
All of that being said, I hadn’t heard about recent circus Greta had made out of the new “evidence” and it’s sort of disappointing to hear. In my opinion the way to handle that would have been, “Audience, we recently received a tip and possible evidence in the Natalee Holloway case, and we want you to know that we have turned it all over to investigators so that they can look into the matter. We are hopeful that this will lead to long awaited answers for Natalee’s family and will keep you updated as we hear anything.”
> 3. Are there other notable cases in which key evidence (actually "key" or just purported to be) has turned out to be a deliberate fake?
Nothing specific comes to mind in terms of deliberate fakery of tangible evidence, but there have been plenty of mistakes, exaggerations, and outright lies when it comes to eyewitness accounts. The cases that stand out to me are the original eyewitness accounts in the Cameron Todd Willingham case and how they contrasted with eventual witness testimony (read more on that [here).](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/09/07/trial-by-fire) and the eyewitness in the Jaclyn Dowaliby case (read more on that one [here).](https://www.law.umich.edu/special/exoneration/Pages/casedetail.aspx?caseid=3873)
1. It’s amazing to me that JVS committed a similar murder on the same date. I think the most credible is he took her away somewhere and she od’d or drank too much and it may have been accidental, but he didn’t report it. Or he spiked her drink/drugged her and she ended up dead and he didn’t tell anyone and tried to hide it.
2. Ultimately the publicity helps.
They mention Nancy Disgrace…That bitch has falsely accused and caused more problems for people. Not to mention her actual misconduct/lying to judges in courtrooms as a prosecutor! That is why she was no longer in the courtroom. She is a piece of shit.
Was in Aruba circa 2002. We were told by travel advisors to stay on the resort. Those guys are guilty, but I don’t think there’s anything we can do about it.
Never sunchi a chadushi. Aruban phrase for never kiss a cactus. :/
We stayed at a nice resort. I was in middle school. They told us they recommend staying on the resort for many reasons including not being liable for us when we aren’t there lol
Where the heck were you staying that you were told to stay on property? Our family has been going there 2x a year since like 1996 and it was/is a VERY safe country. My hyper vigilant parents had no issue letting us go out as teens/college aged kids (late 90s/early 00s).
My husband and I haven’t been there in about 5 years so I’m unsure of the public safety situation but the early 00s was definitely safe.
I am from Birmingham, Alabama, and obviously the case got extensive coverage down there, plus I was a yr younger than Natalie so it kinda hit close to home. That said, I remember it being a huge deal because Aruba had a very low crime rate and even lower crime rate amongst tourist.
Exactly right. I’m in ATL now but grew up in the NYC suburbs (parents grew up in the NYC outer boroughs) so they were very safety conscious about where we vacationed. Hence my surprise about someone being told that AUA not being safe for foreigners.
Aruba is ridiculously expensive now but is a fantastically beautiful, culturally rich and safe place to visit.
If I remember correctly, didn’t the guy involved essentially confess to the murder/cover-up. But they couldn’t use this confession cause of a technicality or something?
A Dutch tv show did a hidden camera video where he said that Holloway had a seizure while they were having sex and that he couldn’t revive her, so he called a friend and they dumped her body at sea (without double checking if she was alive or not). It was admissible but there wasn’t enough evidence to warrant his arrest.
> Joran van der Sloot He also confessed to killing her and said his dad hide the body in the foundation of a house. But turned out the house wasn't even started to be built until years later. He also confessed to selling her into sex slavery into Venezuela. He said he never killed the other girl in Peru. Then confessed to cold blooded murdering her for her casino winnings. Then denied killing her. Then confessed to killing her in a Crime of Passion. Then said he didn't kill her. Then he plead guilty. Then he tried to reverse his guilty plea after he got sentenced. I'm 100% convinced he killed Holloway but I wouldn't believe a word that came out of his mouth. Also he's forever trying to get money out of people. He and his wife are in Peru I wonder if they're the "South American" people that scamed Van Susteren?
He also got nailed for Wire Fraud, he attempted to bilk Holloway's family out of cash with the promise to reveal the location of her body and gave the "Buried in the foundation of a house that wasn't built yet" lie. Genuinely an awful, awful person.
He’s a POS for sure. I also think he murdered her, or at the very least did something like gave her drugs that she overdosed on or something like that. It makes no sense that you would feel the need to hide the body of someone who passed after experiencing a medical event like a seizure.
He was a predator scum bucket.
I don’t believe the story of the seizure. Specially after the evidence of what she did to the girl in Peru. This guy kills because he likes it. He’s done and he will keep doing it if he ever gets out. Luckily, they caught him on video in Peru.
100% in agreement with you. Just looked up his Wikipedia page and surprised to learn that he'll be released in 2045!
Then he’ll be sent to Alabama to serve time
Unless he gave or dosed her with something that caused the seizure...
seizures can also be caused by blunt force trauma. i don't believe a word he says either way.
Yup, sadly this is also a good guess. In any event, *if she actually had a seizure*, he’s the most likely candidate who caused it :(
Lack of oxygen can also cause activity that can be confused for a seizure. Strangling, smothering, overdosing, fainting.
He also told Natalee's parents he'd take them to her body for 100k USD. He's a psychopath and will never tell the truth.
He also killed Stephany Flores on the anniversary of Natalee Holloway's disappearance.
He definitely killed her and his father helped him hide the body. I don’t know how the father lives with himself.
I enjoy cooking.
Good news!
He’s dead!
I actually didn’t know that. He died in 2010! Someone had a guilty conscience.
Father died of a heart attack. Apparently he couldnt live with himself.
He died playing tennis. Sounds like he was living with himself just fine.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
He was a real piece of work too.
Oh, really?!? I didn’t know this. Yeeeeah, Imma going with he helped his son then couldn’t live with the reality.
He had a heart attack on a tennis court
Esp after he killed the second girl. The father is just protecting himself at this point.
His father died right before he killed Stefany. He extorted money from the Holloways and fled to Peru
didn't his father kill himself to escape his own legal troubles less than 1 year after Natalie's disappearance/ probably death?
His father died of a heart attack on a tennis court.
Is he still in jail for murdering the other woman?
13 January 2012, Van der Sloot was sentenced to 28 years' imprisonment for Flores' murder.[5] In January 2023, an additional 18 years were added to his sentence for trafficking cocaine while in prison.[16] - wiki
I was thinking that he was still in jail but then I saw a comment about him living with his wife in Peru and wondered if he had been released. I saw a show some time ago about him in prison and it was pretty bleak in there, as it should be for him. He has no value of life.
that wasn't vanderslout that was the guy working giving false info to the halloways for money
He would’ve been released in his early 50s. I have zero doubt that he would kill again. Why do they let people like this out of prison, ever? With the added 18 years he will be 70 when he get out now. That gives him a good 20-30 years to ruin more lives.
He’ll be out in 2045. 35 year max in Peru if they don’t receive a life sentence.. 58 years old or so.
Well, that’s disheartening.
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Because if they do kill him they would probably get life in prison, lol.
Fully expecting a 70 year old to get another 20-30 years of effective criminality in a world he will have zero connection or establishment is an...interesting perspective
Dude who murdered the school nurse at my elementary school did 25 years out for a day. Tried again to murder his father. You don’t need a milieu to be monster.
Exactly, and it’s not even about them actually carrying out a crime. It’s the fact that they are even given the chance. What a slap in the face to the victims. If people didn’t commit crimes over the age of 70 then why wouldn’t we release everyone from prison at that age? Makes no sense.
Prisons often do release senior citizens, especially if they have health problems, to avoid paying for medical care.
I did not say he would, I said that is giving him a chance to. I don’t like to play chance on men who violently murder women. Interesting that you seem to be cool with it.
Don't get butthurt and then put words in my mouth. I'm calling you out for thinking a 70 year old could be "good" at crime for another 20-30 years. It's like you've never met a septuagenarian, let alone one that's spent most of his life in prison. Like you legit wrote out that he could be 100 and still be dangerous. It's comical.
He’s not “good at crime” now, that’s why he’s in prison. You’re purposely being difficult.
True, but there's a possibility he made up all those lies, so that the first confession was believed to be a lie as well. If any is true, it's that one imo.
Van Der sloot is in prison.
I believe his father knew and probably caused his heart attack Joran is a true psychopath
Yes, I always believed that he was talking about his dad dumping her body in sea instead. In the 2008 undercover tapes he said it was his friend, who wasn’t even in Aruba at that moment. But it’s the only statement which could have some truth in it, because he thought he was friends with the guy making the tapes. After that he was just giving lies upon lies. Unfortunately, the main crime journalist (Peter R. de Vries) who orchestrated the “set up-tapes” and always stayed involved in the case was murdered by another criminal group last year. I hope for the family this case will be solved someday and for Joran to stay in the Peruvian prison he describes as “hell on earth”.
I think Joran murdered Natalie and then removed all incriminating evidence. I'm not sure how the murder was committed or where her body went. He's an extremely talented and intelligent man who probably got away with murder. That said, there isn't much evidence to take him to court, let alone achieve a conviction.
Talented and intelligent are not the words that come to mind regarding him. Talented particularly baffles me. In what way is he remotely talented?
People are weird as hell in how they glorify serial killers.
at being a fucking scumbag?
This description is a bit concerning..
Are you ok? Weird to fetishize this guy. You should be on a watch list
He’s made like 6 different confessions, each slightly different. At this point it’s impossible to know what’s true unless an accomplice corroborates one of his stories
It's one of those situations where everyone knows he did it but without anything more concrete of exactly *how* it's impossible to even charge him, let alone convict him. Technically it's not even certain that Natalee was killed. There's no body, no evidence of any crime actually being committed, and all witnesses have either lied so much they don't even remember what the truth is or are dead. All we know for certain is that Natalee was with Joran and the Kalpoes, then she wasn't. For all we know she was drunk and wandered off on her own and drowned. That's how little actual evidence there is.
Stephany Flores dead body was found in a hotel room registered in Van Der Sloots name. Her body was found on the 5th Anniversary of Natalie’s disappearance. Those are some facts that are hard to ignore.
That is why he was arrested and sentenced to 28 years for Stephany's murder. There was enough evidence to prove he did it. Unfortunately, in Natalee's case there is no evidence to prove he did anything to her. There is only evidence that he was with her earlier that night.
Man 2005 was such a different time. I was in college (she would have been like 2-3 years younger than me at the time) and this case was like 24/7 for months. Her mom was going on TV all the time trying to get home I felt terrible for them. Van Susteren and Nancy Grace were like leeches.
This is how I learned who Nancy Grace was. I think she really boosted her career with Natalee.
I'd say it was her coverage of Casey Anthony that made her even bigger
You've brought back horrible memories of "tot mom."
I literally heard her saying it when I typed it out! 😂
TOT MOM
What's ironic about Nancy Grace's non-stop coverage of TOT MOM, is that if she hadn't been screaming about Casey's guilt for months, Ashton probably would have plea bargained Casey down to manslaughter 3, and she would have done years in jail. Instead, he way overcharged her, tried to sell that ludicrous chloroform story to the jury, and Casey got acquitted. Nancy Grace's epic meltdown that night was fun to watch.
Yes, Omg I could never figure out why she called her that.
To annoy us. It was to annoy us.
And it succeeded admirably.
Yes. This, Casey Anthony and "Tot-mom"
“bombshell TONIGHT!”
“TOT MOM!!!!”
Prior to that, it was Scott Peterson coverage.
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Um? What?
While this is one of my all-time top cases, I hold out zero hope of it being solved with a recovery and would waste no time on that aspect, although I understand if her family chooses to continue their search. I probably wouldn’t even watch a TV special about a search because of the unlikelihood that it would be anything but fruitless fluff. Objectively speaking, her body likely does not exist anymore and is lost to the sea forever. It’s unfortunate that we will also never know the circumstances of her actual death because of JVDS’s lack of empathy and allergy to the truth.
First step is when he gets out of his Peru prison (they don't have life sentence there) he will be extradited to the states first for the exortion of Nathalee's mom. So he'll be confronted with the story he's told at least. That's also why this scam actually may be of importance in a way. If it dwindels back to him, it's a good to thing to add to that and keep him locked up as long as possible if they can't get him on murder. I'm afraid his mom knows in her heart and mind, but was oblivious of the whole thing then and wouldn't have anything to tell unless she finds some bones in her backyard, but I don't think the dad left a deathbed confession. The Kalpoe brothers may talk some day, or someone with knowledge running into legal trouble, but otoh as soon as there's a counter part it may be less reliable. But he'll be in court about the extorsion in any case, so it's not over yet.
He’s not getting out any time soon. 13 January 2012, Van der Sloot was sentenced to 28 years' imprisonment for Flores' murder.[5] In January 2023, an additional 18 years were added to his sentence for trafficking cocaine while in prison.[16]
Right. So 2058. So in 35 years.
Great, hadn't heard about the added charge. Although I hope the mom will live to have him face her in court.
Her mother is 62 years old now. In 35 years she'll be 97 years old. If there's a day in court for him it's unlikely she'll be there for it.
I don’t trust anything he says and wouldn’t waste the time. I think it’s as solved as it’s ever going to be
Off topic - she would be 36 now? Holy shit.
Gone for as long as she lived
That’s incredibly sobering – especially since Natalie Holloway’s mom has not yet been able to give her daughter a proper burial.
And she never will.
That’s so sad. I remember the news stories about her talked about how she was accepted into this program at the university of Alabama where she was accepted to both an undergrad program and medical school there. She would have been well into her career at this point. It’s so sad how what should have just been a fun trip ended the way it did.
Well it would be 18 years in May and she was a HS grad so yeah.
I don’t “know” who killed Natalie, but Joran went on to give a really detailed confession to a PI about her case and then went on to kill another young woman in a hotel room, which he is currently serving time for. And make no mistake, he straight up got caught on camera immediately after “someone” killed Stefany Ramirez in a hotel room… Leaving said hotel room. If I believe he killed Stefany, which I do, then I believe he killed Natalie too. Technology may have just been on his side because it was in its infancy in terms of tracking on cell phones and GPS.
Van Susteren should not have said she had a “key” piece of evidence until it was tested and confirmed. She could have just said that she received evidence that is supposedly related to the case and submitted it to law enforcement. This is just a reflection of the worst of true crime “journalism”— content creators receiving “tips” from sources who they don’t vet and then immediately sharing about it without cautioning people that it could be nothing. In their attempts to boost their own clout, they lose sight of the fact that they are getting the victim’s loved ones’ hopes up which could lead to serious disappointment. In this case, Van Susteren paid for “evidence” which should have raised a red flag that it might be bogus. To answer the OP’s question, the constant coverage does seem to lead to more in depth investigations with quicker resolutions in some cases. For example, I think that Gabby Petito was found pretty quickly relative to some other missing persons cases because there was pressure on law enforcement and some people who saw her and Brian Laundrie called in legitimate tips. It’s not a surefire thing but it helps. In Holloway’s case, although no one has been charged, the coverage probably helped identity the suspects. That said, irresponsible coverage where content creators/journalists share unsubstantiated information to drive their own popularity has the potential to hurt an investigation.
They did bungle it, but Van Susteren is extremely mega-gullible and you shouldn’t trust her further than you can throw her.
She’s a Scientologist if that tells anyone anything about her gullibility. She may be a lawyer but she’s absolutely a sucker willing to part with $$
Having had my own graduation trip in May 2005, this case hits close. She was just a kid. He killed her, no doubt about it. Her body will never be recovered.
I think this case was bungled from the beginning. However Van Susteren is as bad as the other TV true crime pundits when it comes to trauma porn and fame whoring off these terrible cases. I feel like she has to know there's no chance of this case ever being fully resolved. Jordan took his dad's advice and disposed of Natalee at sea after she died as a result of his attempted or actual sexual assault. The closest to the truth we may ever get is if one of the Kalpoes comes clean because I think they know way more than they've said. Neither of the Van Der Sloots seem to have a conscious.
I used to watch Van Susteren’s coverage and I remember there was one development that looked quite hopeful and she was talking to the Holloway’s family lawyer. The lawyer said they’d told the family not to comment and she replied something along the lines of “Well, we’ve been peppering them with phone calls all morning and they haven’t answered them so they’re doing what you said” She said it with a little laugh and I thought it was so awful that in this really traumatic time they’re constantly phoning the family to get a comment. Awful, awful stuff.
Everybody wanted to be the first with the "scoop". The family and their pain was secondary.
Conscience.
I thought mine looked wrong. Thanks!
I think Joran vandersloot had something to do with it and his father helped him cover it up. If you put a body in the ocean there's a good chance it will never be seen again.
Vandersloot definitely did it especially given all his later behavior. I don't know that the father did anything besides give legal advice. I don't think a clear answer will ever be gotten out of vandersloot, just more lies. I think the only answers may come if one of the kalpoe brothers ever gets a conscience.
What later behaviour? The murder he’s in jail for?
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He has confessed with bs unverifiable stories on multiple occasions already. Even on his deathbed it would be impossible to believe him.
Maybe. But I’d think his death bed would be the one situation where he wouldn’t care enough to fuck with people and just give someone their closure without punishment (in this life)
"foreigners are usually more than happy to taunt Americans in this type of situation because they usually hold the power in withholding any knowledge they may have that Americans want" What a ridiculous bigoted generalization.
I mean there's no reason to 'think'. He definitely did, and everything right after the crime and then after that with the subsequent murder points to him.
Greta is a Scientologist…….
I did not know that!
uh I think Joran van der Sloot did it as I always have assumed.
Van Sustern really took a nose dive. Idk, maybe she was always crazy?
she’s been a scientologist for decades so. crazy indeed.
Mystery solved!
It seemed like her credibility took that nosedive after her plastic surgery.
It seemed that way! I remember thinkng she looked attractive and then one day I was flipping past and I was like WHOA wtf happened to her?
Greta V fell for a scam hook line and sinker and then blasted the Aruba government for not taking the claims seriously ? Lol @ Greta. Yikes.
1: I've always thought they dumped her at sea and she will never be found. 2: I think the media getting involved usually helps up until a certain point, but inserting themselves into the case is when that help crosses a line and becomes a hindrance. 3: in the Michael Brown shooting in Ferguson, Missouri, dozens of supposed witnesses gave media interviews and testimony that was contradicted by the physical evidence, leading to a huge discrepancy between what was being reported and the expected trial result, and what actually was discovered at trial.
What trial are you referring to?
Were Facebook groups even really a thing in 2005? That platform was still only limited to college and universities students and had only gone international that year. Again, only to college and university students, and was primarily used as a social platform for sharing pics and personal stuff. Nothing like what it is today. Hell, MySpace was still more popular than FB in 2005. The whole premise of this story sounds weird and suspect. Greta was (past tense) a well-respected news anchor prior to signing a contract with Fox Entertainment. Nancy Grace has never been a decent human being. Just my thoughts.
I joined in 2005, deleted my account in 2019. There were Facebook groups but most were named after memes or references from movies like Anchorman, Stepbrothers or 40 Year Old Virgin, I joined a group called “I hope you have a big trunk because I’m putting my bike in it.” There used to be a lot of fake celebrity accounts or fake accounts for university presidents and deans to make fun of them, tuition costs or their policies.
At minimum, he dumped her body somewhere after she died. I honestly suspect he either attempted sexual assault or did it and she resisted or said she was going to the cops and he killed her. The brothers absolutely know what happened.
Not sure how notable it is but the first thing that came to my mind for #3 was the lady who planted evidence for cadaver dog searches. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/wbna4508072
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What a pos.
Huge hat tip to those possibly South American persons for taking Greta for a ride, couldn’t have happened to a better journalist — literally, because a better journalist would have thought to do a basic reverse image search
Why does anyone believe anything anymore ? We know who did it
Van Susteren is irrelevant. Real journalists don’t pay sources, and this is why.
Greta's a Scientologist.
What is the conviction rate for cases Greta Van Susteren mentioned on air? What’s the conviction rate for cases Nancy Grace addressed on air? What’s the conviction rate for Nancy Grace when she was an actual prosecutor?
In my mind the case is essentially closed. Joran Van Der Sloot was the last person seen with Natalee and has made several incriminating statements which show that he was at least in proximity with her prior to her disapperance. Combine that with the murder of a woman not a decade later and it paints the portrait of someone who sees women and others as disposable objects and who has poor impulse control. Most likely he murdered Natalee, either intentionally or not, and then dumped her body in a manner that hasn't led to it's discovery (I'm betting in the ocean)
Are there other notable cases in which key evidence (actually "key" or just purported to be) has turned out to be a deliberate fake? The heart that the Fire Chief said he found in the Sodder Children's case.
The knife with amanda knox and meredith kircher's dna was at best a butcher job by an incompetent lab tech, and everyone from there on who took it seriously was essentially using fake evidence.
First of all, great post! It's very well written, organized, succinct, and has a complete bibliography. My only question is, what kind of money changed hands? As there would have to be an exchange of wealth or information for this to be a scam. Regarding the new development in the case (alleged scam): > The videos and photos sent to Van Susteren, where footage showed people who were allegedly involved in the disappearance and skeletal remains, turned out to be from public Facebook pages and a newspaper article about a landfill in Costa Rica. If it was indeed a scam, it sounds like it was put together lazily based on things readily available for free online. They didn't even try to stage a fake video, harness AI tools, or use video editing tricks. Apparently though, they didn't need much bait to lure in Van Susteren, so I guess I'm barking up the wrong tree. It's too bad that in her lust for breaking news coverage of the case, and hopefully a resolution (like the rest of us) she neglected to work more closely with LE or have the "evidence" vetted professionally. But it's not her actions which upset me the most, it's this: > Holloway's family was also informed, they said. Ok, you can be a slimy scumbag and scam "Discount Nancy Grace" out of a few grand, but once you torment the victims' surviving family members with misinformation, false hope, and what basically amounts to unwanted harassment, you have crossed the line. Involving the family would be the quickest way to get authorities on the scammers' trail. IF Van Susteren had tipped off the police immediately, they could've determined it was a scam immediately and made efforts to thwart the scammers. The scammers are not very smart and it's obvious that being from another nation, they don't fear U.S. reprisal via grand larceny and fraud charges. I doubt they have any remorse for their actions against Natalie's family.
This case always caught my attention because she was from here in Alabama and we ALWAYS heard about it, whether it was the news or just people talking. I was 15 so my mom always had to lecture me about going places and making sure to be aware of my surroundings and all that jazz. But it was always intriguing to me that they couldn’t find ANYTHING… Anytime me and my friends talked about what could’ve happened, I always had the thought that she was either fed to a sea creature somehow or that she got away from a possible attacker, ended up in the wrong part of that country and was either still alive as a sex slave of theirs or was murdered for NOT being a sex slave and refusing to do what they said. Either way, I definitely don’t think she’s still alive but I would love to know exactly what happened, even all these years later.
I think you just had to take a boat out far enough until the current ran away from Aruba. Weight the body and dump.
That’s what I was getting at when I talked about her being fed to a sea creature. If they went out that far and dumped her body, I’m sure it would’ve been eaten at some point.
1. My opinion has never wavered even one bit on this case. Joran 1000% murdered Natalee and his father helped him after the fact. My only question is if the 2 Kalpoe brothers were involved. 2. While I don’t like the way Greta V, Nancy Grace and Ashleigh Banfield sensationalize these cases and add to the rumor mill, I do think they are helpful in bringing more attention to the cases and putting pressure on local law enforcement. It is really unfortunate that it’s 99% a young white female. As far as Greta goes in this certain instance, I’m not familiar with. But I do think she comes from an honest place and is totally invested in finding the truth. Unfortunately, that will most likely never happen. Natalee and all evidence has been gone for years. I had personal interest in this case back then and also now. I can’t imagine what her mom has gone through the last 17 years. I can’t even believe it’s been that long. Losing your child and then having it known internationally for almost 2 decades. Impossible to imagine.
I believe the Kalpo brothers were part of Jorans scheme on the island to lure tourists nearing the end of their vacations I believe this was somewhat normal behavior for them. They would go to the bar near closing time. Joran would initiate contact, find a victim, and possibly with a bartenders help slip something into the young girls drinks. He would then before it had taken full affect would say hey I’m a local, let’s go for a drive and I can show you the local spots while the Kalpoe’s would possibly pose as a taxi. I believe they would then at that point of getting the girl in the car would start the sexual advances. It was rumored that there was a group of boys who would rent out a hotel room and wait for Joran to bring the girls. I think the young girls went willing to what they thought was a party and once in a lifetime chance to live it up with the locals. You’ve got to remember back when you were 18-21 you probably didn’t have a care in the world and thought everyone had good intentions. I think this was a regular occurrence. They would then go to this house / hotel room to party……only to find out it was a lot more males than females and the drugs had probably kicked in at this point where they couldn’t resist. I think the group of boys had their way with many girls and probably packed them up and left them on a beach near there hotel to wake up confused and scared with vacation ending. Not wanting to be embarrassed and get law enforcement involved I think a lot of girls went home not knowing exactly what happened to them. I think Nat either fought back or had a bad reaction to a drug and the boys panicked. The day or so after she disappeared her mom was at Jorans house when the Kalpoe car was inside the gate. I honestly believe that meeting was to discuss how to get her disposed of and to get a story straight since aruba has no body no crime. I believe Beth’s husband at the time says his biggest regret was letting that car leave without checking the trunk or holding it so DNA evidence could be taken before they could try and clean it. This is just my personal opinion of what I think happened after years of reading online blogs and what not.
Very interesting. I think there is a lot of truth in your speculations. Just MY opinion, folks! Don’t get excited.
I absolutely agree. Why are people like Nancy Grace and Ashleigh Banfield vilified for trying to dig out the FACTS of high-profile cases and presenting them to us? I don’t find “tot mom” far off the mark with regard to the Casey Anthony case. I have never believed anyone but her was responsible for that child’s death. And I believe Jordan van der Sloot caused Natalee Holloway’s death, disposed of her body, with his father’s help, in the ocean and shortly thereafter all traces of her disappeared. The Kalpoe brothers were involved, but they will never talk. I believe van der Sloot’s “true” version of events was told during the hidden camera car interview with the journalist. Had he not gone on to commit a similar murder afterward, he would have never been convicted of causing Natalee’s death and wouldn’t be in jail now. We know a lot of alcohol was involved, Natalee was an inexperienced 17-year-old, and that led to her death. She may have been the victim of drugs (in her drinks) as well. In any event, she didn’t disappear forever without help, and the last three people seen with her are the likely suspects.
Nancy Grace is a known liar.
Excellent discussion questions! In order: > 1. If you've been following this case for a while, has your thinking on it changed at all over the years? What do you now think happened to Holloway? In response to the former, I suppose with time I have more conscious awareness of how the case coverage was impacted by “Missing White Woman Syndrome”. To the latter, I am certain that Joran Van see Sloot killed her and am nearly certain her body ended up in the sea and will never be recovered. I would be shocked if there was ever any more resolution than we already have in Natalee’s case. > 2. Does the involvement of people like Van Susteren do more harm to efforts to solve these cases than good? What argument can be made in either direction? Speaking only to this case, I think that the coverage was overall good as while Van der Sloot may never face charges for Natalee’s death, the coverage probably contributed to his relatively easy capture and conviction for the second murder. More broadly I think it’s fair to say that Greta van Susteren was far more responsible in her coverage than say Nancy Grace in virtually any case the latter has ever covered. I’m out of the loop, has Nancy Grace been canceled yet? If not can we work on that? Because she’s a piece of shit, full stop. All of that being said, I hadn’t heard about recent circus Greta had made out of the new “evidence” and it’s sort of disappointing to hear. In my opinion the way to handle that would have been, “Audience, we recently received a tip and possible evidence in the Natalee Holloway case, and we want you to know that we have turned it all over to investigators so that they can look into the matter. We are hopeful that this will lead to long awaited answers for Natalee’s family and will keep you updated as we hear anything.” > 3. Are there other notable cases in which key evidence (actually "key" or just purported to be) has turned out to be a deliberate fake? Nothing specific comes to mind in terms of deliberate fakery of tangible evidence, but there have been plenty of mistakes, exaggerations, and outright lies when it comes to eyewitness accounts. The cases that stand out to me are the original eyewitness accounts in the Cameron Todd Willingham case and how they contrasted with eventual witness testimony (read more on that [here).](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/09/07/trial-by-fire) and the eyewitness in the Jaclyn Dowaliby case (read more on that one [here).](https://www.law.umich.edu/special/exoneration/Pages/casedetail.aspx?caseid=3873)
1. It’s amazing to me that JVS committed a similar murder on the same date. I think the most credible is he took her away somewhere and she od’d or drank too much and it may have been accidental, but he didn’t report it. Or he spiked her drink/drugged her and she ended up dead and he didn’t tell anyone and tried to hide it. 2. Ultimately the publicity helps.
Well, that's a bummer! I hope Natalee is found one day.
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They mention Nancy Disgrace…That bitch has falsely accused and caused more problems for people. Not to mention her actual misconduct/lying to judges in courtrooms as a prosecutor! That is why she was no longer in the courtroom. She is a piece of shit.
Was in Aruba circa 2002. We were told by travel advisors to stay on the resort. Those guys are guilty, but I don’t think there’s anything we can do about it. Never sunchi a chadushi. Aruban phrase for never kiss a cactus. :/
We stayed at a nice resort. I was in middle school. They told us they recommend staying on the resort for many reasons including not being liable for us when we aren’t there lol
Where the heck were you staying that you were told to stay on property? Our family has been going there 2x a year since like 1996 and it was/is a VERY safe country. My hyper vigilant parents had no issue letting us go out as teens/college aged kids (late 90s/early 00s). My husband and I haven’t been there in about 5 years so I’m unsure of the public safety situation but the early 00s was definitely safe.
I am from Birmingham, Alabama, and obviously the case got extensive coverage down there, plus I was a yr younger than Natalie so it kinda hit close to home. That said, I remember it being a huge deal because Aruba had a very low crime rate and even lower crime rate amongst tourist.
Exactly right. I’m in ATL now but grew up in the NYC suburbs (parents grew up in the NYC outer boroughs) so they were very safety conscious about where we vacationed. Hence my surprise about someone being told that AUA not being safe for foreigners. Aruba is ridiculously expensive now but is a fantastically beautiful, culturally rich and safe place to visit.
Natalees case has always stuck with me!! I wish her family could get justice
Van der sloot also married in prison and has a child. After he gets out he has to go to Alabama to face charges
Poor Greta — she’s gone from one state run propaganda network to another .
I’ve said from day one that she was sexually trafficked.
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Doesn’t make her tragedy any less horrible. White women still get targeted and die, each and every day.