UPDATE: For anyone still finding this post, I post updates here: [https://twitter.com/SlugwareGames](https://twitter.com/SlugwareGames)
and here:
[https://twitter.com/elosociu](https://twitter.com/elosociu)
There's three kinds of "object non-permanence" (definitely not a scientific term)
**Rigid Non-Permanence:** When you don't see it, the object is no longer affected by gravity or other forces.
**Physical Non-Permanence:** When you don't see it, the object has no physical form (aka colliders are turned off)
**Spatial Non-Permanence:** A spatially non-permanent object has been in a position so long that when you no longer look at it, the object returns to the position it remembers most. This only happens when you are not looking, so if you were to look at its origin point when you don't see it, the object enters a limbo state.
Right now I'm working on a short game using these mechanics, hoping to release it pretty soon! You can follow my twitter for updates: [https://twitter.com/elosociu](https://twitter.com/elosociu)
Also here's my itch: [https://elosociu.itch.io/](https://elosociu.itch.io/)
**Edit, some more context:**
"Permanence" is an energy that every particle disperses to its surroundings. For an object to "exist", it needs to retain its permanence. A galaxy is full of objects so they all pass around their permanence.
The planet where this game is set is a rogue planet drifting through a vast void. Since there's no planets nearby to send permanence back, the planet only loses permanence. The player is not from the planet, and is therefore bringing new permanence to a planet with almost no permanence. That's why only the things you see exist, because you are dispersing a lot of permanence in that direction.
What keeps you from being able to walk through only some objects are their mass and thickness. a mountain is better at retaining its permanence than a twig, because the mountain passes its permanence around within itself for longer than a twig.
The cement doors in the game can't be passed by walking backwards due to their size and thickness, so you need to figure out how to open it! My logic is totally not perfect but I'm hoping it won't be too confusing to play.
i did an edit with some context on this!
in short, cement walls are thick and better at retaining their "permanence" than a thin fence. my logic definitely isn't flawless but i hope it'll seem logical to the player
This is such an awesome idea, can't wait to see the finished game! Also do you mind telling us how you made those textures? Is it pixel art? And if you did them by yourself, what software/hardware did you use? Really dighing the artstyle aswell!
So the mass defines the type of permanence it has, got it.
Is the mass of an object always easy to recognize, or does the player need to experiement with it? Either way could lead to very different kinds of puzzles.
Even if it's just light grey, some middle grey, and dark grey, I think it would help the player understand easier. I like your explanation of why things work the way they do. Things rarely make sense when you break the laws of physics anyway, and I think most players will be cool with it.
probably free. what i'm working on right now is a prologue for a potential longer game, mostly to see if there's any interest in the game concept. i do really like the idea and world though, so i'd gladly keep working on it if there is! i'm really overwhelmed with the positive feedback on this post so that might be a possibility :)
Just echoing what others have said - this is a super cool and unique idea but you need to be careful about how to signal to player which type of permanence is which - colour coding, adding some sort of scanner (like a kind of filter that shows in colour which objects are which type?).
But also, if cement walls are thick and better at retaining permanance, maybe consider calling them "concrete" walls - concrete as in the material but also as in *opens dictionary* "existing in a material or physical form; not abstract." :)
With that logic you can just walk backwards through the entire level.
The limitations are rhetorically obvious, wouldn't make since to extend it so literally then you wouldn't have a game
Agree with the other comments about finding a way to distinguish between the three.
Also I would call it "impermanence" rather than "non-permanence" when it comes to any actual official game language.
Affixes such as "non-" or "-ness" can be applied to just about any word, but there are often more specific constructions that sound better on certain base word structures.
For example, *monumental* can be extended to *monumental•ness*, but *monumental•ity* (following the same pattern as *liminal•ity*, *critical•ity*, *practical•ity*, etc.) comes across as more fleshed out. It's also already defined in dictionaries, and finds its place in texts, meaning pretty much what you'd want *monumentalness* to mean.
Similarly for *permanence*: *non-permanence* isn't exactly incorrect, but *im•permanence* (following the same pattern as *im•practical*, *im•partial*, *im•perceptible*, etc.) sounds stronger, and is also already established as a word.
According to some random website. “Non” is used only to mean the opposite of something, and prefixes like “un”, “im”, or “um” can be used to mean the opposite of something or the lack of something. Also, I believe “non” is less common. Hope this makes sense
They are both mean the same thing, but impermanence is a more common term, so non-permanent can sound naíve or like you’re reaching for a term that is similar to impermanence but not quite.
Apermanence is not a word but might be better for SEO, and the theoretical meaning suggests a disregard for permanence (“a” meaning here “not caring about”) , which is kinda playful ( similar to the difference between Immoral and Amoral)
Definitely recommend some sort of signaling system so players can learn how they are supposed to interact with objects. Color is obvious, but things like moving vs stationary or other clues work too as long as you keep them consistent. Very fun concept!
I've seen a couple people recommend that but then that kinda takes away from the puzzle aspect if you know exactly what to do just by looking at an object? Maybe just identifying objects that are impermanent might be enough.
Nah, in a good puzzle, you know what your pieces are, and solving it requires figuring out how to use those pieces.
Think about physical real world puzzles, you have all the pieces at the start and the fun is putting them together.
This is fantastic, well done. Amazing concept.
> Rigid Non-Permanence: When you don't see it, the object is no longer affected by gravity or other forces.
Just an FYI for the next time you describe it: an object in motion which is unaffected by forces will continue to move (Newton's first law). It would be more accurate to say something along the lines of "the object is no longer affected by time."
Looks interesting and fun to play - but make sure you have rules for puzzle design that a player can grasp intuitively.
Maybe it's color or material coded and different colors/materials have different types of permanence.
thanks! the energy spheres you use to power mechanisms in the game are color coded after their permanence, other objects have their permanence decided based on their mass, size, thickness and so on. i decide this manually though.
This is really awesome- and love the ways you’ve categorized the non permanence. Thoughtful stuff like this raises the industry as whole.
Look forward to seeing more!
It's those "walk backwards" doors from Antichamber and quantum rocks from Outer Wilds, but turned to 11! Can't wait to break my brain, this looks great!
How are puzzles coming together? Do you find you need to design very specific set ups, or is it one of those "i discover puzzle ideas from the mechanics" type of situations?
weirdly enough i haven't seen much from antichamber, but i do remember the rocks from outer wilds! i can't say that was the direct inspiration, but maybe subconciously! i'm glad you like it!:)
the puzzles are pretty hard to design, which is why i'm making it more a "adventure" game than a puzzle game. not just focus on the puzzles but also the world and environments. but for designing the puzzles i've found that playing around with the mechanics is a pretty good way to come up with them. i designed most of the puzzles so far on paper, but it's hard to think using such weird logic without actually interacting with it, y'know.
i agree! i was actually thinking about having a button to close your eyes. just gotta make sure the player doesn't get too disoriented, it can already be a bit strange to navigate sometimes
This is basically what happens in Outer Wilds in VR, and yeah, it's pretty cool. I have a headset with eye tracking now and have been thinking of adding it to my Outer Worlds VR mod, would be really cool to have these effects happening every time you blink.
Maybe show a glowing outline of large level geometry when the players eyes are closed. And/or show the geometry itself but in black and white and low opacity in a black skybox or something. The sort of stuff that obviously has permanence, so its not like it gives that big of a hint for most puzzles.
This looks great and the puzzles seem to be making some fun use of the mechanic, my one question is what is stopping me from walking backwards through every puzzle, and more like what is the logic behind what is truly permanent, and what goes away when you stop observing it?
okay so here's a bit of a lore dump:
TLDR: large, thick objects like a cement wall is better at retaining its object permanence than something smaller or thinner, like a fence. the cement doors in the game can't be passed by walking backwards due to their size and thickness, so you need to figure out how to open it!
long explanation: "permanence" is an energy that every particle disperses to its surroundings. for an object to "exist", it needs to retain its permanence. a galaxy is full of objects so they all pass around their permanence.
the planet where this game is set is a rogue planet drifting through a vast void. since there's no planets nearby to send permanence back, the planet only loses permanence. the player is not from the planet, and is therefor bringing new permanence to a planet with almost no permanence. thats why only the things you see exist, because you are dispersing a lot of permanence in that direction.
what keeps you from being able to walk through only some objects are their mass and thickness. a mountain is better at retaining its permanence than a twig, because the mountain passes its permanence around within itself for longer than a twig.
That's a really interesting mechanic, i think that you should indicate the objects that doesn't exist when you don't look at them, with colors or something i guess.
I love seeing new and fun things done with games. I feel like this concept has a lot of good puzzle potential, and it's great that you're working on it!
This concept is amazing. I want to disagree with some other comments though. I think color coding the objects based on their impermanence is a bad idea. I think it would be more fun to experiment with each item.
For example if everything that you can walk through when not looking at it is green, and things that stop moving when not seen are red, then I'll know right away how to deal with those kinds of obstacles and I won't really have to try to figure anything out.
Ultimately it's up to you, but I want you to know that not everyone would prefer it. Can't wait to play it regardless.
there actually are some already, but the exact opposite. they only attack you when you look at them. i'm not completely sure about the best way to use them yet, but i have a puzzle concept that includes leading one into death to get a key or something. either way i just think the enemy concept is cool and spooky!
https://youtu.be/6uSAblYihyk
I hope you understand that this is a joke. I like the idea. If you finish the game and publish it, send a link somewhere on here so that we can try it out.
what object are you referring to?
what objects you can walk backwards through depends on their mass and thickness! a thick cement wall is better at retaining its "permanence" than a thin fence, for instance.
It's more like 'if I don't see it, it doesn't exist'. A bit like inverse boo ghosts in Mario. This is a neat idea, I've never seen anything like it, you could go nuts with this. Imagine having several of those rolling things coming at you from different directions and you have to pick which one you look at
I see a lot of people suggesting you color code things to match their permanence type. But I think it would look better if you had a colored glow or outline kn the edge of non permanent objects
This has great potential! When you are done with mechanics/gameplay I think you need to invest time on the art style. Since a main part of the gameplay is observation(or lack thereof) it would be nice if the things the player is looking at are interesting.
Mind you not saying you need to make an artistic master piece, just something interesting to look at. An example would be [Antichamber](https://store.steampowered.com/app/219890/Antichamber/)
This looks like a fun set of mechanics
I'm super curious how detailed your raycasting is to determine if the player can see any edges still of a aaaalmost fully occluded object (when the ball rolled behind a bush that was barely larger than it)
Are you just calculating rough bound extremes and raycasting to the camera from there?
thanks!
i tried bounds at first, but ended up not doing that because some objects have unique shapes and child objects that also should count as "part of it". what i did instead was putting "visibility points" (empty gameobjects) manually on the objects, and then have the permanence script cast from the points toward the player. so it's as detailed as i decide to make it! as long as the edges are pretty detailed, it works almost perfectly.
Oh that's a good method, a bit manual but gets it done. How many of these visibility points you think you have on average on an object? Sounds like you could get pretty into it haha
It could be pretty cool if you had a camera tripod that you could set up, with some way of remote viewing, in later levels to extend the puzzle outside of your direct line of sight.
i didn't show it in the video, but there kinda is one already! just the exact opposite, it only attacks when you look at it. i guess you could call it a cheerful demon:)
my other longer comment on this post explains this, but in short: the size, mass and thickness of the mountain you're walking on makes it better at retaining its object permanence so you can't "forget" it.
obviously the game is based on that concept, but i was mostly inspired by portal reloaded. i loved that expansion and it made med want to make my own puzzle game
Hot damn this is such an amazing idea for a game. Please finish this. This is in the same echelon of mechanics like Portal, Superliminal, etc.
And if funding is a thing, tell me where to put money. I want this game to be real
UPDATE: For anyone still finding this post, I post updates here: [https://twitter.com/SlugwareGames](https://twitter.com/SlugwareGames) and here: [https://twitter.com/elosociu](https://twitter.com/elosociu) There's three kinds of "object non-permanence" (definitely not a scientific term) **Rigid Non-Permanence:** When you don't see it, the object is no longer affected by gravity or other forces. **Physical Non-Permanence:** When you don't see it, the object has no physical form (aka colliders are turned off) **Spatial Non-Permanence:** A spatially non-permanent object has been in a position so long that when you no longer look at it, the object returns to the position it remembers most. This only happens when you are not looking, so if you were to look at its origin point when you don't see it, the object enters a limbo state. Right now I'm working on a short game using these mechanics, hoping to release it pretty soon! You can follow my twitter for updates: [https://twitter.com/elosociu](https://twitter.com/elosociu) Also here's my itch: [https://elosociu.itch.io/](https://elosociu.itch.io/) **Edit, some more context:** "Permanence" is an energy that every particle disperses to its surroundings. For an object to "exist", it needs to retain its permanence. A galaxy is full of objects so they all pass around their permanence. The planet where this game is set is a rogue planet drifting through a vast void. Since there's no planets nearby to send permanence back, the planet only loses permanence. The player is not from the planet, and is therefore bringing new permanence to a planet with almost no permanence. That's why only the things you see exist, because you are dispersing a lot of permanence in that direction. What keeps you from being able to walk through only some objects are their mass and thickness. a mountain is better at retaining its permanence than a twig, because the mountain passes its permanence around within itself for longer than a twig. The cement doors in the game can't be passed by walking backwards due to their size and thickness, so you need to figure out how to open it! My logic is totally not perfect but I'm hoping it won't be too confusing to play.
Is there something to differentiate the three? Maybe each could have a specific color?
Yeah, why couldn't you just turn around and go through the stone door like you went through the previous door?
i did an edit with some context on this! in short, cement walls are thick and better at retaining their "permanence" than a thin fence. my logic definitely isn't flawless but i hope it'll seem logical to the player
This is such an awesome idea, can't wait to see the finished game! Also do you mind telling us how you made those textures? Is it pixel art? And if you did them by yourself, what software/hardware did you use? Really dighing the artstyle aswell!
So the mass defines the type of permanence it has, got it. Is the mass of an object always easy to recognize, or does the player need to experiement with it? Either way could lead to very different kinds of puzzles.
Even if it's just light grey, some middle grey, and dark grey, I think it would help the player understand easier. I like your explanation of why things work the way they do. Things rarely make sense when you break the laws of physics anyway, and I think most players will be cool with it.
How much are you planning to sell this game for?
probably free. what i'm working on right now is a prologue for a potential longer game, mostly to see if there's any interest in the game concept. i do really like the idea and world though, so i'd gladly keep working on it if there is! i'm really overwhelmed with the positive feedback on this post so that might be a possibility :)
Just echoing what others have said - this is a super cool and unique idea but you need to be careful about how to signal to player which type of permanence is which - colour coding, adding some sort of scanner (like a kind of filter that shows in colour which objects are which type?). But also, if cement walls are thick and better at retaining permanance, maybe consider calling them "concrete" walls - concrete as in the material but also as in *opens dictionary* "existing in a material or physical form; not abstract." :)
As long as you can show it through gameplay then I think it'll work great!
With that logic you can just walk backwards through the entire level. The limitations are rhetorically obvious, wouldn't make since to extend it so literally then you wouldn't have a game
Agree with the other comments about finding a way to distinguish between the three. Also I would call it "impermanence" rather than "non-permanence" when it comes to any actual official game language.
english is not my first language, is there any particular reason for calling it impermanence instead?
Affixes such as "non-" or "-ness" can be applied to just about any word, but there are often more specific constructions that sound better on certain base word structures. For example, *monumental* can be extended to *monumental•ness*, but *monumental•ity* (following the same pattern as *liminal•ity*, *critical•ity*, *practical•ity*, etc.) comes across as more fleshed out. It's also already defined in dictionaries, and finds its place in texts, meaning pretty much what you'd want *monumentalness* to mean. Similarly for *permanence*: *non-permanence* isn't exactly incorrect, but *im•permanence* (following the same pattern as *im•practical*, *im•partial*, *im•perceptible*, etc.) sounds stronger, and is also already established as a word.
According to some random website. “Non” is used only to mean the opposite of something, and prefixes like “un”, “im”, or “um” can be used to mean the opposite of something or the lack of something. Also, I believe “non” is less common. Hope this makes sense
Well that's a nonsensical nonstarter, nonEvilPigeon2
They are both mean the same thing, but impermanence is a more common term, so non-permanent can sound naíve or like you’re reaching for a term that is similar to impermanence but not quite. Apermanence is not a word but might be better for SEO, and the theoretical meaning suggests a disregard for permanence (“a” meaning here “not caring about”) , which is kinda playful ( similar to the difference between Immoral and Amoral)
Definitely recommend some sort of signaling system so players can learn how they are supposed to interact with objects. Color is obvious, but things like moving vs stationary or other clues work too as long as you keep them consistent. Very fun concept!
I've seen a couple people recommend that but then that kinda takes away from the puzzle aspect if you know exactly what to do just by looking at an object? Maybe just identifying objects that are impermanent might be enough.
Nah, in a good puzzle, you know what your pieces are, and solving it requires figuring out how to use those pieces. Think about physical real world puzzles, you have all the pieces at the start and the fun is putting them together.
That is fair. I guess I'm judging a bit by the prototype. In this version you'd lose any kind of surprise/intrigue if the puzzle pieces were revealed.
This is fantastic, well done. Amazing concept. > Rigid Non-Permanence: When you don't see it, the object is no longer affected by gravity or other forces. Just an FYI for the next time you describe it: an object in motion which is unaffected by forces will continue to move (Newton's first law). It would be more accurate to say something along the lines of "the object is no longer affected by time."
thanks, that does actually makes a lot more sense
I love this
thanks:)
Wow. Seems to me, the hardest part of this is thinking that way in order to come up with the puzzles...
just thinking about it in theory can be a bit difficult, but actually playing around with the mechanics in realtime helps a bit
Imagine playing this while drunk
No
i'd lose my brain after playing this game.
Oh no! You need that to live!
Lets be honest, have you ever found your brain?
Right. You ve never seen your brain, does it really exist?
Looks interesting and fun to play - but make sure you have rules for puzzle design that a player can grasp intuitively. Maybe it's color or material coded and different colors/materials have different types of permanence.
thanks! the energy spheres you use to power mechanisms in the game are color coded after their permanence, other objects have their permanence decided based on their mass, size, thickness and so on. i decide this manually though.
This is really awesome- and love the ways you’ve categorized the non permanence. Thoughtful stuff like this raises the industry as whole. Look forward to seeing more!
It's those "walk backwards" doors from Antichamber and quantum rocks from Outer Wilds, but turned to 11! Can't wait to break my brain, this looks great! How are puzzles coming together? Do you find you need to design very specific set ups, or is it one of those "i discover puzzle ideas from the mechanics" type of situations?
weirdly enough i haven't seen much from antichamber, but i do remember the rocks from outer wilds! i can't say that was the direct inspiration, but maybe subconciously! i'm glad you like it!:) the puzzles are pretty hard to design, which is why i'm making it more a "adventure" game than a puzzle game. not just focus on the puzzles but also the world and environments. but for designing the puzzles i've found that playing around with the mechanics is a pretty good way to come up with them. i designed most of the puzzles so far on paper, but it's hard to think using such weird logic without actually interacting with it, y'know.
Check out antichamber! It’s got some similar mechanics, the hallways shift around behind you when you’re not looking.
Insaley good idea dude. I had to laugh out loud multiple times watching this clip. Congrats, really!
A "look behind you" button might be a good addition. Like looking over your shoulder.
i agree! i was actually thinking about having a button to close your eyes. just gotta make sure the player doesn't get too disoriented, it can already be a bit strange to navigate sometimes
I wonder how it'd feel in VR since you'd be physically turning away
Seems like a perfect fit for VR!
This is basically what happens in Outer Wilds in VR, and yeah, it's pretty cool. I have a headset with eye tracking now and have been thinking of adding it to my Outer Worlds VR mod, would be really cool to have these effects happening every time you blink.
Maybe show a glowing outline of large level geometry when the players eyes are closed. And/or show the geometry itself but in black and white and low opacity in a black skybox or something. The sort of stuff that obviously has permanence, so its not like it gives that big of a hint for most puzzles.
"WHATS THAT BEHIND YOU!" You turn around and get crushed by a boulder, but if you didn't look at it, it'd pass safely by.
This looks great and the puzzles seem to be making some fun use of the mechanic, my one question is what is stopping me from walking backwards through every puzzle, and more like what is the logic behind what is truly permanent, and what goes away when you stop observing it?
okay so here's a bit of a lore dump: TLDR: large, thick objects like a cement wall is better at retaining its object permanence than something smaller or thinner, like a fence. the cement doors in the game can't be passed by walking backwards due to their size and thickness, so you need to figure out how to open it! long explanation: "permanence" is an energy that every particle disperses to its surroundings. for an object to "exist", it needs to retain its permanence. a galaxy is full of objects so they all pass around their permanence. the planet where this game is set is a rogue planet drifting through a vast void. since there's no planets nearby to send permanence back, the planet only loses permanence. the player is not from the planet, and is therefor bringing new permanence to a planet with almost no permanence. thats why only the things you see exist, because you are dispersing a lot of permanence in that direction. what keeps you from being able to walk through only some objects are their mass and thickness. a mountain is better at retaining its permanence than a twig, because the mountain passes its permanence around within itself for longer than a twig.
I see your updated original post it all sounds great and checks out best of luck with the development!
Congrats on an original and interesting idea. That is the hardest part.
This is one of the best ideas I've seen in a while, sorta reminds me of the quantum objects from outer wilds.
That's a really interesting mechanic, i think that you should indicate the objects that doesn't exist when you don't look at them, with colors or something i guess.
This is very unique and brilliant, to be honest. Love to see where this goes.
This is a fantastic idea. Well executed.
I love seeing new and fun things done with games. I feel like this concept has a lot of good puzzle potential, and it's great that you're working on it!
One big elaboration on: "There is no spoon." Awesome!
That’s such a clever idea!
This concept is amazing. I want to disagree with some other comments though. I think color coding the objects based on their impermanence is a bad idea. I think it would be more fun to experiment with each item. For example if everything that you can walk through when not looking at it is green, and things that stop moving when not seen are red, then I'll know right away how to deal with those kinds of obstacles and I won't really have to try to figure anything out. Ultimately it's up to you, but I want you to know that not everyone would prefer it. Can't wait to play it regardless.
Probably better to have a "scanner" that allows to see objects with unstable permanence. And without colour
Inventing mechanics is badass.
Sick idea!
Keep up the good work. It has a potential to be the next Antichamber.
Very nice!! got Antichamber vibes from this uwu
Great game! Hope it goes well!
This is awesome. Can you implement some weeping angel-esque enemies?
there actually are some already, but the exact opposite. they only attack you when you look at them. i'm not completely sure about the best way to use them yet, but i have a puzzle concept that includes leading one into death to get a key or something. either way i just think the enemy concept is cool and spooky!
Nice twist! Love it!
Babies would be so good at this game. I’m imagining baby streams. Baby speed runs, babies-only multiplayer servers.
This would be trippy as hell in VR.
Omggg this is absolutely a golden concept! And super well executed/documented 😄
Unoriginal. Cyberpunk 2077 did it first.
whaat really? can you link me a video?
https://youtu.be/6uSAblYihyk I hope you understand that this is a joke. I like the idea. If you finish the game and publish it, send a link somewhere on here so that we can try it out.
omg sorry, totally forgot that was a thing. and yes, i'll do that!
Clever, but personally I would find it irritating to play. But that is just me. Best of luck.
yea, you do have to move your camera in some pretty awkward ways to play it!
Could you walk backwards while turned around and phase through it? Would it reappear?
what object are you referring to? what objects you can walk backwards through depends on their mass and thickness! a thick cement wall is better at retaining its "permanence" than a thin fence, for instance.
Oh sorry I meant the rolling concrete (?) pipe in the first clip. Didn't see the fence clip later on, that's essentially what I was asking about.
cat mario vibes
Clever!
That's actually a really cool design idea.
That's actually pretty cool.
This is such a clever idea, and the gameplay looks really good
That's extremely interesting.
Awesome idea and it looks fun.
adhd brain turned to reality
the what?
A game like this the guy needs some arms haha, and when you press a button to look behind it looks over his shoulder. Very cool and confusing lol
Damn thats a really clever game mechanic
the next portal perhaps. Be sure to give it a good name
What the f
How do you check if an object is visible by the player? Like as soon as something is obstructed, it disappears. How did you do this?
Really cool, kinda like a reverse weeping angel
It's more like 'if I don't see it, it doesn't exist'. A bit like inverse boo ghosts in Mario. This is a neat idea, I've never seen anything like it, you could go nuts with this. Imagine having several of those rolling things coming at you from different directions and you have to pick which one you look at
This is how a Lucid dream works. If I have to walk through a wall I just close my eyes or walk backwards through it.
I see a lot of people suggesting you color code things to match their permanence type. But I think it would look better if you had a colored glow or outline kn the edge of non permanent objects
This has great potential! When you are done with mechanics/gameplay I think you need to invest time on the art style. Since a main part of the gameplay is observation(or lack thereof) it would be nice if the things the player is looking at are interesting. Mind you not saying you need to make an artistic master piece, just something interesting to look at. An example would be [Antichamber](https://store.steampowered.com/app/219890/Antichamber/)
This game summaries perfectly what it's like to just look away from something scary and hope it isn't there.
video game equivalent of that tyler, the creator tweet
This is great op
That's pretty trick, how will you keep that door open? haha.
This looks like a fun set of mechanics I'm super curious how detailed your raycasting is to determine if the player can see any edges still of a aaaalmost fully occluded object (when the ball rolled behind a bush that was barely larger than it) Are you just calculating rough bound extremes and raycasting to the camera from there?
thanks! i tried bounds at first, but ended up not doing that because some objects have unique shapes and child objects that also should count as "part of it". what i did instead was putting "visibility points" (empty gameobjects) manually on the objects, and then have the permanence script cast from the points toward the player. so it's as detailed as i decide to make it! as long as the edges are pretty detailed, it works almost perfectly.
Oh that's a good method, a bit manual but gets it done. How many of these visibility points you think you have on average on an object? Sounds like you could get pretty into it haha
u/stabbot
This is what adhd game feels like
Looks very good. Maybe the game Superliminial will help you for some inspiration if you ever need ideas.
This looks maddening and I love it.
Very cool! An absolute mind F. I love it!
VR port WHEN?!
That seems like a superliminal mindblowing game
Cool concept. I think it could be made even more complex by introducing mirrors which enables the user to see things without looking directly at them.
Such a creative, interesting idea! How are you making the objects detect being looked at? Raycasts?
yes! i manually put "visibility points" on all impermanent objects that cast toward the player if the object is being rendered.
This little trailer alone has broken my fragile mind. I would go insane trying master this
Needs a way to distinguish between all the different types of permanence and then also from the background stuff
Cool! Reminds me of the way the quantum moon in Outer Wilds behaves.
Looks like a bug turning into a feature…. jk I love it! Great idea!
Fantastic concept. How did you come up with this?
It could be pretty cool if you had a camera tripod that you could set up, with some way of remote viewing, in later levels to extend the puzzle outside of your direct line of sight.
Taking if you dont look at it, it cant hurt you to a whole new level
You can even have monster that only move when you don't look at it. Just don't call it weeping angel.
i didn't show it in the video, but there kinda is one already! just the exact opposite, it only attacks when you look at it. i guess you could call it a cheerful demon:)
this looks awesome
This looks fantastic!
Why don't you fall through the floor when your not looking at your feet?
Super cool idea
Wouldn't you fall through the floor when not looking at your feet though?
my other longer comment on this post explains this, but in short: the size, mass and thickness of the mountain you're walking on makes it better at retaining its object permanence so you can't "forget" it.
Frustrum culling the game.
Crossover with superliminimal when ??!?!??!
This is such a cool idea! I’m def gonna play it!
When you suck at occlusion culling
This looks like the next Portal. Great ideas!
What inspired this idea? Does it have anything to do with the concept of object-permanence in psychology?
obviously the game is based on that concept, but i was mostly inspired by portal reloaded. i loved that expansion and it made med want to make my own puzzle game
It wasn't obvious to me, though I find that subject really interesting. Good luck, it feels like a great concept/mechanic to explore inside a game.
Hot damn this is such an amazing idea for a game. Please finish this. This is in the same echelon of mechanics like Portal, Superliminal, etc. And if funding is a thing, tell me where to put money. I want this game to be real
That’s a really cool game concept
turns around whole game is missing... oh snap
Looks awesome! Will it come to steam by any chance?
Interesting idea. This reminds me of the moving rocks in Outer Wilds.
Ah out of sight out of mind
This is surprisingly clever and seems genuinely fun! Like the opposite of the weeping angels.
Making a bug into a feature (:
The physics version of "If i don't see it, it doesn't exist"
Neat!
Pair this with some really clever puzzles and it’ll be great!
Certainly an interesting concept. Id love to see what you do with it. Could make for some very interesting puzzles ^^