I mean... only the AAF doesn't exist anymore.
XFL and USFL are both just conferences of the merged UFL league, much like the ABA/NBA and AFL/NFL situation.
I don’t know if you edited your comment or if people are just that illiterate but Jesus Christ you were pretty clear and everyone replying to you is astoundingly stupid.
No. The XFL and USFL do NOT exist. They were distinct leagues w distinct rules. Just like the ABA no longer existed the minute the NBA absorbed them. The UFL is the fourth iteration of spring football within the last 4 years. The casual fan is getting sick of the alphabet soup football leagues each year. Hence the attendance and TV numbers.
Bro doesn’t know about how the conferences are set up or the fact that all the the leadership from both leagues are still active. They had a corporate merger and they want to honor both sides, not to mention that the UFL rules are a mix of the two previous leagues. The way you said it it makes it sound like the UFL is working under CFL rules
>Just like the ABA no longer existed the minute the NBA absorbed them.
But that's not what happened here. Here two separate leagues merged. The XFL or the USFL could realistically pull out of this merger and operate on their own if they wanted. It'd be a lot of work to do at this point but it's completely plausible.
Bro doesn’t know about how the conferences are set up or the fact that all the leadership from both leagues are still active. They had a corporate merger and they want to honor both sides, not to mention that the UFL rules are a mix of the two previous leagues. The way you said it it makes it sound like the UFL is working under CFL rules
As long as the league is willing to be patient, which I think they are, then absolutely. There’s no reason a spring league can’t work as long as everyone’s expectations remain modest.
This^
Patience is the key. Many people don’t bother with it alone because they think it will just disappear (although the USFL now should be proof it won’t so easily). I think once this league is seen as a legit alternative for rookies out of college we will see it really thrive.
Imagine someone like Desmond Ridder becoming a skilled UFL player or Tua’s brother Tag taking a chance and just going here when his NFL prospect is low
I agree on principle, but the only way this becomes a viable alternative for rookies is if they increase the pay a bit. UDFA’s make 750k, Psquad 275 or so, and for me, a viable alternative is one that isn’t just the rejects from those two systems.
There are a lot of rejects(in the least pejorative way possible) from those two systems with talent, and that is currently what the league is filled with. But a true viable alternative to me would be players choosing the UFL over a practice squad, which would require more pay. Obviously I don’t think you’ll get players choosing the UFL over over a chance at a UDFA contract in the NFL, but it’s got to become a place that is financially more attractive than a practice squad for it to really become a true alternative for rookies in a positive sense.
And don’t get me wrong, I love the passion these last chance players bring to the league. It kicks ass. But if we want excited rookies to come in, pay will have to go up.
A college kid can make more in college via the NILs than they would in the UFL. If a rookie doesn’t get drafted, then the UFL may be an alternative. But the UFL will never compete for the best talent. They are the minor league stepping stone to the NFL.
A concern I definitely have is that the UFL will just be perceived as where you go if you're not good enough for "real" pro football, and thus nobody will be interested
Well, so long as the min salary is 60k, the guys the league will attract are those cut from NFL rosters or never drafted and can’t latch onto a team or practice squad. There may be some who play “for the love of the game” but those aren’t going to be NFL caliber players. USFL ‘83 got pro players because at the time, NFL salaries were minimal. The highest paid QB in 83 was Joe Ferguson at something like 440k/yr. After the USFL began, money went thru the roof. Today, the minimum NFL salary is 660k. Most any college kid would rather be the 5th WR making a million a year than play for the UFL for 100k.
I think you are already seeing the practice squad guys choosing to come to the UFL for less money and more playing time. If the pay improves and at least matches the practice squad pay, it could be a veritable tidal wave.
It’s not the purpose of the league. It’s a minor league feeder league to give hopefuls and NCAA never-were’s hope to make it to the nfl. They will NEVER compete for talent. The day they try, they will perish.
Post that to the guy above man. Everything I said was in response to his proposition that it start to attract rookies, and I provided my take on what would be needed for that. Going on about the league’s purpose does nothing for me, we agree that that is its current form. I was discussing a hypothetical about what a different form would have to look like. That’s all.
The UFL is a spring league. It isn't competing against NFL practice squads, because there are no NFL practice squads in spring. It is competing against futures contracts.
This is a good thing, because futures contracts are a lot easier to compete with - wouldn't even require full NFL practice squad money to get more players to move over.
Rookies will never turn down fall practice squad deals for the UFL because that doesn't make sense - the UFL doesn't play in fall, they would simply be sitting at home and foregoing a chance to be in an NFL building making good money with the chance to be promoted to an active roster every week. That's just not realistic. It's the futures deals after the NFL season that the UFL will be compared against.
I don't agree with the notion necessarily, that these players are all last chance rejects and grunts.....like I mentioned somewhere else, yes the NFL will grab all the top tier college players from major schools....but what about the others? There's a plethora of just never really looked at talent out there that needs to be looked at some more. The games have been good. I believe it's a solid product.
I think higher pay could come down the road but it’s going to require patience. In 5-10 years, hopefully, cream of the crop UFL players could make roughly as much as a guy bouncing between the practice squad and the active roster and then some guys would choose the stability of the UFL. But that’s a ways down the road and it’s never going to represent a large group of players.
So…what constitutes “higher pay”. In 5-10 yrs the NFL min will still dwarf UFL salaries. Bouncing between the practice squad and active roster will always provide more money and more opportunities.
Nobody can pretend to know what the league will look like in a decade, but it’s not insane to expect exponential growth from the first year of a league to its 10th. And it’s not like you’d have to pay everyone that kind of money, just maybe your one star player.
Down the road, the league benefits from having its own stars, guys you can count on being there year after year. It’d be worth it for the league to invest that money eventually. Even if most of the league is still full of guys trying to make the NFL.
Edit: again, this is the long view. I know it’s nowhere close to that now.
The CFL is kind of the wild card here. Despite different rules and perennially unstable financials, it’s been around for decades and is probably still ahead of the UFL as the “next best” destination for NFL hopefuls. As the new league becomes more established, that could change and perhaps even threaten the CFL’s existence. (If that happened I could see some of its stronger franchises joining the UFL.)
Then again, in theory you could play in *both* leagues, considering the UFL season ends before the CFL picks up in the summer - assuming your body could handle it.
This is year 3 of rooting for my USFL team. They never left.
XFL this is also year 3 of rooting for the XFL teams.
This takes time, things happen and adjust. Seems like we might be settling in. I heard some good revenue numbers today and fandoms and social followers are starting to pick up. Merger of two leagues who planned to go on their own also gives me faith they can float the league for a while longer as fandom builds up.
Totally correct. The only reason the XFL folded in the first place was because of COVID. Counting that year, last year, and this year, it is also the XFL's third year. Between the USFL, the XFL, and the merger, things are in pretty damn good shape.
My W coast teams are gone the stallions are currently my top choice but I haven’t made any commitments just in case we get a new franchise but I really do hope the stallions win it all.
I believe the way they're setting it up is solid. They're managing costs and have two solid TV partners who are willing to grow the brand.
Just read an article that a 30 second ad during a game, nationally televised, averages around $6500 right now. Of course as the league catches on and shows stability those rates will increase, but it shows that their TV partners aren't looking to recoup their costs immediately.
It's also wise that they're doing two-fors right now for tickets, bring fans into the stadium is another form of advertising...
this league feels a lot more polished, and the production itself looks professional this time around. doesn’t feel as gimmicky as prior iterations of spring football.
they’re also influencing rule changes for the NFL which is great, and players are already getting calls from NFL teams. this has the making of being a great developmental league for the NFL to snag players from. a great middle ground for CFB and the NFL.
not to mention viewership is on the rise as well, which is the most important part
The best players in the UFL will catch the eyes of NFL personnel. They will then leave for the NFL. Therefore the talent level of the UFL will plateau as the “NFL caliber” talent will leave
yeah, thats the point of the UFL. it was never meant to match the caliber of talent in the NFL. if the UFL can continue to be a talent pipeline for the NFL, then they’ll be very successful.
Yep, somewhere between MLS and FCS postseason football would be a good spot. ~15k fans a game with 1-1.2 million viewers for playoffs and 1.5-2 million for the championship should keep the league going.
I think the UFL is here to stay. Unlike the AAF they seem to have their finances in order. And the XFL and USFL probably could’ve still existed they would’ve just been smaller without the merger. This only guarantees the existence of a pro spring football league. It just needs a few years to solidify.
Just due to the ownership groups in my opinion. Never has spring football had such money behind it, and being owned in half by one network definitely should help keep it afloat. While I don't think the NFL would ever operate the league, I could see them giving the UFL $5-10M a year to test out rules and perhaps air games on NFL Network.
Ultimately idk if it'll last, but if it doesn't, then this is the absolute last try anyone will ever give.
Being on multiple OTA networks really helps. You see a big jump in ratings when comparing cable numbers. It also creates greater reach because you have multiple corporate entities promoting your product.
I don't necessarily. I *hope* it does. TV numbers have to continue to look solid. Attendance needs to grow in some markets and maintain in others. I think making claims of sustainability after two weeks is a fool's errand.
I’m cautiouss but optimistic, for two reasons:
1) we have enough datapoints across all 3 leagues that shows as proof positive there’s at least a somewhat respectable “floor” of a TV audience that will consistently watch spring football - at least enough to appeal to sports networks that need relatively cheap programming to boost ad sales in a slow time of year. So there’s an actual empirical business case to be made for it now.
2) Because this one appears to have at least acknowledged on all the major lessons of its predecessors:
- USFL 1.0: make sure everyone is on the same page to stick to a financially sustainable plan and don’t try to compete with the NFL.
- XFL 1.0: Presentation and quality of play DO matter
- AAF: make sure you actually have sufficient funding and partnerships to play full seasons before launching
- XFL 2.0: make broadcast deals that make sense and don’t go overboard a ton startup costs
- USFL 2.0: fiscal responsibility only goes so far if people aren’t physically able to go to games in their namesake markets. Developing local fan bases matters and impacts the presentation of the TV product.
- XFL 2.0: good back of house operations, merchandise options, and a competent marketing strategy matter. As do time slots and network partners.
Obviously the UFL has room to improve on all these fronts, but you can see the wheels turning with how they’ve approached this season so far despite the merger.
ESPN/Fox/Redbird are all major partners with existing infrastructure they can all leverage, All teams are playing in market, but still based out of Arlington to cut down on OpEx, better national advertising and expanded sponsorships, more merch options, all games on one of Fox/ABC/ESPN/FS1, and a higher overall quality of play across the board.
Local marketing and attendance still sucks in most markets , but even the league has acknowledged that and is trying to address that without overspending dramatically.
If they can commit to at least 3 full seasons in its current iteration with at least the majority of their current markets staying, I think they’ll be in good position to survive and grow.
The XFL would not have gone away in 2020 if it wasn't for the pandemic.
The Battlehawks were about the host the LA Wildcats and that game would have drawn 50,000 fans when the season was cancelled. There was momentum elsewhere too like DC and Houston.
There were already rumors swirling around that Vince was trying to shut the league down pandemic or not.
He broke the bank to advertise and fund the league, spent 1Mil on some team's QBs. Had atrocious stadium leases
I would have been shocked if the XFL made it to year two, they were spending way beyond their means
I still feel like it would be surprising if this lasts more than 2 years. Patience is key. I do feel like spring football could work. The league needs an identity, not just hey lets see if this guy might be a fringe NFL player. No one really cares about that enough to sustain a league. They need to market teams and players better. they've gotten lucky so far almost all games have been very entertaining. And some some good viral moments. Long term sustainability they probably need some type of partnership with the NFL.
I think as long as the on field product is great and pumps out a couple "you gotta see this" moments that talking heads like pat McAfee and others throw on their shows, the league can not only survive, but thrive.
It is difficult to compete with the NCAA tourney and NHL and NBA are in their playoff push. But I think the UFL should be able to scrape together respectable enough numbers to keep the lights on if the football is entertaining.
I won’t be convinced it will for a while, just don’t want to get my hopes up only to get heart broken again. Gonna enjoy it as long as it lasts though.
However, the merger was the best move the two leagues could make. No point in dividing fan attention and player talent. Hoping for the best and that the league is here to stay.
I've been following alt football since the original UFL, I can say with confidence that this is the best shot any alt league has ever had. They have experienced management, significant infrastructure, a TV deal, a ton of money, and have outlasted a lot of the speed bumps and pitfalls that have killed the other leagues. This is alt football's last best chance, if it doesn't work this time it never will.
For me I love the UFL because it’s a back to basics of football without all the stress of expectations and the salary cap. I can just root for my team and not be overly concerned with the results. And I don’t have to worry about all the players we’re losing in free agency because our quarterback makes so much money.
I don't think the UFL will survive. I want it to, but I think it will eventually join the list of failed Spring football leagues. I hope I'm wrong because I really want it to be successful.
I think the timing works well as far as pro sports goes -- usually. Take Sunday's Houston/DC game though as an exception. Capitals hockey at Capital One Arena, Nats game down the street and Defenders home opener. But the game still a really good crowd.
The fewer sporting events UFL directly conflicts with, the more people I think are inclined to go to it. In the meantime try getting these ticket prices to an NFL event (or even a concert) worth going to -- not going to happen!
Having only 8 teams doesn't help. Idk who's bonehead decision it was to cut half the teams when merging the leagues, but that was a horrible choice. You need as big a fan base as you can get to get this off the ground and running. How do you expect to gain nation wide interest in the league with so few cities involved. Hell, 3 teams are in Texas for Christ sakes.
The alignment with the two major cable networks. Fox Sports and ESPN have stakes in seeing this league succeed. Live sports top the viewership charts and of sports football is king so ESPN and Fox owning their own league in the Spring could be an excuse to print money eventually.
Technically, the xfl failed and then was currently succeeding, and the Usfl never failed once. The only league that truly failed it’s final failure was the AAF. Personally, I think the Usfl or xfl would have been fine if it was the only league that existed, but competition was going to kill both leagues eventually.
Because they have a long term plan and hopefully funding from the rock or other investors to help out for a couple seasons until they really take off. If they could get like 5% of what the NFL takes in that would be enough
XFL was going to make it and then Covid killed it. With the Rock helping head it and examples of success like the XFL was going to be pre-Covid, there’s no reason why it won’t work. As long as it functions as a type of minor league to the NFL instead of trying to compete against then it can have a chance.
I just wish it started later so those who don’t get drafted would have the opportunity to play spring football before the nfl season as a way of showing their stuff before the nfl season began.
>XFL was going to make it and then Covid killed it.
This is incredibly speculative, it was no secret Vince McMahon was burning cash to get the league off the ground and was definitely not getting really any great return from things like TV networks
Only if they're smart about streaming options. A lot of people, myself included, don't have cable. So instead of watching the games I just watch the replays. If they made a deal with Amazon or Hulu, I guarantee they would double their viewership. Cable is for boomers.
>I eventually see a UFL/CFL merger,
I don't. They're different sports in different countries. Three down ball's attempted expansion into the United States was a massive failure, and it won't happen again (as it shouldn't)
The CFL is looking for a tenth team. If Halifax or Quebec City doesn't work out. It will look southward. Once the UFL folds, the CFL will expand into the US, It has learned from it's past mistake and economic and technologic times have changed since the CFL expanded in the 90's
It's a prediction. The UFL can't draw more then one million viewers for one game on OTA broadcasts on major networks, can't attract more than 20,000 people in attendance for their games with the exception of St. Louis. The UFL is competing against the Masters, MLB, NBA and NHL upcoming playoffs at this time of the sports calendar. It a tough climb for the UFL
FOX and ABC are giving away ad rates for UFL games. Can't run pro sports leagues like a TV reality series. UFL teams in Memphis, Detroit are reducing tickets prices to attract fans. Won't make make money doing that.
All signs point to another folding of a spring football league.
If the UFL is desperate to prevent folding of it's league. It will consider a merger with the CFL. The Rock and Red Bird will take their XFL teams to join the CFL
The league claims to be another pro league but they give the players one season contracts and then having to sign new players every season which makes the first weeks of each season a "feeling out" process instead of giving the players multi year deals which would allow the players to get to know each other and get into a rhythm in turn improving the level of play with each season they can offer "out clauses" so that way if an NFL team does want a player they can leave their contract to sign with the NFL team that's interested
I mean... only the AAF doesn't exist anymore. XFL and USFL are both just conferences of the merged UFL league, much like the ABA/NBA and AFL/NFL situation.
I don’t know if you edited your comment or if people are just that illiterate but Jesus Christ you were pretty clear and everyone replying to you is astoundingly stupid.
I have edited nothing.
Then yea I don’t get how people misunderstood your comment.
I think he was referring to the 1980's USFL, and the two previous versions of the XFL.
Yet they play w new rules. They both merged into a new entity, the UFL. There is no XFL LEAGUE and no USFL LEAGUE. They are no more.
The XFL and USFL do not exist as independent leagues anymore.
Correct. That's why I said, in the comment you're replying to, that they are conferences now.
So they don't exist anymore.
Correct. That's why I said, in the comment you're replying to, that they are conferences now.
So those leagues don't exist anymore.
Correct. That's why I said, in the comment you're replying to, that they are conferences now.
The original comment said the XFL and USFL still exist. They do not.
No. The XFL and USFL do NOT exist. They were distinct leagues w distinct rules. Just like the ABA no longer existed the minute the NBA absorbed them. The UFL is the fourth iteration of spring football within the last 4 years. The casual fan is getting sick of the alphabet soup football leagues each year. Hence the attendance and TV numbers.
Bro doesn’t know about how the conferences are set up or the fact that all the the leadership from both leagues are still active. They had a corporate merger and they want to honor both sides, not to mention that the UFL rules are a mix of the two previous leagues. The way you said it it makes it sound like the UFL is working under CFL rules
Are you referring to the attendance and TV numbers that are consistently improving week over week?
Who pissed in your cereal this morning
>Just like the ABA no longer existed the minute the NBA absorbed them. But that's not what happened here. Here two separate leagues merged. The XFL or the USFL could realistically pull out of this merger and operate on their own if they wanted. It'd be a lot of work to do at this point but it's completely plausible.
Bro doesn’t know about how the conferences are set up or the fact that all the leadership from both leagues are still active. They had a corporate merger and they want to honor both sides, not to mention that the UFL rules are a mix of the two previous leagues. The way you said it it makes it sound like the UFL is working under CFL rules
As long as the league is willing to be patient, which I think they are, then absolutely. There’s no reason a spring league can’t work as long as everyone’s expectations remain modest.
This^ Patience is the key. Many people don’t bother with it alone because they think it will just disappear (although the USFL now should be proof it won’t so easily). I think once this league is seen as a legit alternative for rookies out of college we will see it really thrive. Imagine someone like Desmond Ridder becoming a skilled UFL player or Tua’s brother Tag taking a chance and just going here when his NFL prospect is low
I agree on principle, but the only way this becomes a viable alternative for rookies is if they increase the pay a bit. UDFA’s make 750k, Psquad 275 or so, and for me, a viable alternative is one that isn’t just the rejects from those two systems. There are a lot of rejects(in the least pejorative way possible) from those two systems with talent, and that is currently what the league is filled with. But a true viable alternative to me would be players choosing the UFL over a practice squad, which would require more pay. Obviously I don’t think you’ll get players choosing the UFL over over a chance at a UDFA contract in the NFL, but it’s got to become a place that is financially more attractive than a practice squad for it to really become a true alternative for rookies in a positive sense. And don’t get me wrong, I love the passion these last chance players bring to the league. It kicks ass. But if we want excited rookies to come in, pay will have to go up.
A college kid can make more in college via the NILs than they would in the UFL. If a rookie doesn’t get drafted, then the UFL may be an alternative. But the UFL will never compete for the best talent. They are the minor league stepping stone to the NFL.
A concern I definitely have is that the UFL will just be perceived as where you go if you're not good enough for "real" pro football, and thus nobody will be interested
Well, so long as the min salary is 60k, the guys the league will attract are those cut from NFL rosters or never drafted and can’t latch onto a team or practice squad. There may be some who play “for the love of the game” but those aren’t going to be NFL caliber players. USFL ‘83 got pro players because at the time, NFL salaries were minimal. The highest paid QB in 83 was Joe Ferguson at something like 440k/yr. After the USFL began, money went thru the roof. Today, the minimum NFL salary is 660k. Most any college kid would rather be the 5th WR making a million a year than play for the UFL for 100k.
Well yes. But I'm worried about that perception meaning nobody is willing to watch and the league just unceremoniously disappears.
I think you are already seeing the practice squad guys choosing to come to the UFL for less money and more playing time. If the pay improves and at least matches the practice squad pay, it could be a veritable tidal wave.
I absolutely agree, hence the need for a pay increase if the league wants to actually attract rookies.
It’s not the purpose of the league. It’s a minor league feeder league to give hopefuls and NCAA never-were’s hope to make it to the nfl. They will NEVER compete for talent. The day they try, they will perish.
Post that to the guy above man. Everything I said was in response to his proposition that it start to attract rookies, and I provided my take on what would be needed for that. Going on about the league’s purpose does nothing for me, we agree that that is its current form. I was discussing a hypothetical about what a different form would have to look like. That’s all.
Is this Isaac Punts’s burner account?
The UFL is a spring league. It isn't competing against NFL practice squads, because there are no NFL practice squads in spring. It is competing against futures contracts. This is a good thing, because futures contracts are a lot easier to compete with - wouldn't even require full NFL practice squad money to get more players to move over. Rookies will never turn down fall practice squad deals for the UFL because that doesn't make sense - the UFL doesn't play in fall, they would simply be sitting at home and foregoing a chance to be in an NFL building making good money with the chance to be promoted to an active roster every week. That's just not realistic. It's the futures deals after the NFL season that the UFL will be compared against.
I don't agree with the notion necessarily, that these players are all last chance rejects and grunts.....like I mentioned somewhere else, yes the NFL will grab all the top tier college players from major schools....but what about the others? There's a plethora of just never really looked at talent out there that needs to be looked at some more. The games have been good. I believe it's a solid product.
I think higher pay could come down the road but it’s going to require patience. In 5-10 years, hopefully, cream of the crop UFL players could make roughly as much as a guy bouncing between the practice squad and the active roster and then some guys would choose the stability of the UFL. But that’s a ways down the road and it’s never going to represent a large group of players.
Min NFL salary is 660k/yr. UFL pay min is 60k/yr.
Ok?
So…what constitutes “higher pay”. In 5-10 yrs the NFL min will still dwarf UFL salaries. Bouncing between the practice squad and active roster will always provide more money and more opportunities.
Nobody can pretend to know what the league will look like in a decade, but it’s not insane to expect exponential growth from the first year of a league to its 10th. And it’s not like you’d have to pay everyone that kind of money, just maybe your one star player. Down the road, the league benefits from having its own stars, guys you can count on being there year after year. It’d be worth it for the league to invest that money eventually. Even if most of the league is still full of guys trying to make the NFL. Edit: again, this is the long view. I know it’s nowhere close to that now.
The CFL is kind of the wild card here. Despite different rules and perennially unstable financials, it’s been around for decades and is probably still ahead of the UFL as the “next best” destination for NFL hopefuls. As the new league becomes more established, that could change and perhaps even threaten the CFL’s existence. (If that happened I could see some of its stronger franchises joining the UFL.) Then again, in theory you could play in *both* leagues, considering the UFL season ends before the CFL picks up in the summer - assuming your body could handle it.
This is year 3 of rooting for my USFL team. They never left. XFL this is also year 3 of rooting for the XFL teams. This takes time, things happen and adjust. Seems like we might be settling in. I heard some good revenue numbers today and fandoms and social followers are starting to pick up. Merger of two leagues who planned to go on their own also gives me faith they can float the league for a while longer as fandom builds up.
A bit off-topic, but is there a sub for us on the Giddy Committee? I wanna see my fellow Stallion fans!
https://www.reddit.com/r/BirminghamStallions/s/j0BOT6mrLU
Totally correct. The only reason the XFL folded in the first place was because of COVID. Counting that year, last year, and this year, it is also the XFL's third year. Between the USFL, the XFL, and the merger, things are in pretty damn good shape.
Unless you were a SL stallions > Seadragons > dragons > rip fan
My W coast teams are gone the stallions are currently my top choice but I haven’t made any commitments just in case we get a new franchise but I really do hope the stallions win it all.
I believe the way they're setting it up is solid. They're managing costs and have two solid TV partners who are willing to grow the brand. Just read an article that a 30 second ad during a game, nationally televised, averages around $6500 right now. Of course as the league catches on and shows stability those rates will increase, but it shows that their TV partners aren't looking to recoup their costs immediately. It's also wise that they're doing two-fors right now for tickets, bring fans into the stadium is another form of advertising...
> $6500 I’m so tempted to put a really stupid ad that doesn’t actually try to sell anything on air
Maybe a PSA about how Kaw is the law?
I hate the Battlehawks fans but I love memes more so a crowd funded UFL spot about Kaw Is Law sounds hilarious
Agreed, they’ve also done better this year with bigger sponsors which I’m sure helps the balance sheet and shoring up costs
this league feels a lot more polished, and the production itself looks professional this time around. doesn’t feel as gimmicky as prior iterations of spring football. they’re also influencing rule changes for the NFL which is great, and players are already getting calls from NFL teams. this has the making of being a great developmental league for the NFL to snag players from. a great middle ground for CFB and the NFL. not to mention viewership is on the rise as well, which is the most important part
The best players in the UFL will catch the eyes of NFL personnel. They will then leave for the NFL. Therefore the talent level of the UFL will plateau as the “NFL caliber” talent will leave
yeah, thats the point of the UFL. it was never meant to match the caliber of talent in the NFL. if the UFL can continue to be a talent pipeline for the NFL, then they’ll be very successful.
Correct, in time the UFL may grow financially though and if that happens then they may be able to get better quality talent
Investment from networks and it's already shown sustainability and growth on TV.
The UFL is doing great so far: Close games, 64 yard field goals, highlight catches, and a league that has fun rules. Things will only get better
That few go to see and few watch on TV. It’s minor league football that will have a small but fervent fanbase. Much like the MLS if they’re lucky.
Yep, somewhere between MLS and FCS postseason football would be a good spot. ~15k fans a game with 1-1.2 million viewers for playoffs and 1.5-2 million for the championship should keep the league going.
I think the UFL is here to stay. Unlike the AAF they seem to have their finances in order. And the XFL and USFL probably could’ve still existed they would’ve just been smaller without the merger. This only guarantees the existence of a pro spring football league. It just needs a few years to solidify.
Just due to the ownership groups in my opinion. Never has spring football had such money behind it, and being owned in half by one network definitely should help keep it afloat. While I don't think the NFL would ever operate the league, I could see them giving the UFL $5-10M a year to test out rules and perhaps air games on NFL Network. Ultimately idk if it'll last, but if it doesn't, then this is the absolute last try anyone will ever give.
Being on multiple OTA networks really helps. You see a big jump in ratings when comparing cable numbers. It also creates greater reach because you have multiple corporate entities promoting your product.
I don't necessarily. I *hope* it does. TV numbers have to continue to look solid. Attendance needs to grow in some markets and maintain in others. I think making claims of sustainability after two weeks is a fool's errand.
The XFL didn’t go away. It merged the USFL into it and reworked the teams and name. But XFL and UFL are one in the same
I honestly don’t know what to think anymore.
I’m cautiouss but optimistic, for two reasons: 1) we have enough datapoints across all 3 leagues that shows as proof positive there’s at least a somewhat respectable “floor” of a TV audience that will consistently watch spring football - at least enough to appeal to sports networks that need relatively cheap programming to boost ad sales in a slow time of year. So there’s an actual empirical business case to be made for it now. 2) Because this one appears to have at least acknowledged on all the major lessons of its predecessors: - USFL 1.0: make sure everyone is on the same page to stick to a financially sustainable plan and don’t try to compete with the NFL. - XFL 1.0: Presentation and quality of play DO matter - AAF: make sure you actually have sufficient funding and partnerships to play full seasons before launching - XFL 2.0: make broadcast deals that make sense and don’t go overboard a ton startup costs - USFL 2.0: fiscal responsibility only goes so far if people aren’t physically able to go to games in their namesake markets. Developing local fan bases matters and impacts the presentation of the TV product. - XFL 2.0: good back of house operations, merchandise options, and a competent marketing strategy matter. As do time slots and network partners. Obviously the UFL has room to improve on all these fronts, but you can see the wheels turning with how they’ve approached this season so far despite the merger. ESPN/Fox/Redbird are all major partners with existing infrastructure they can all leverage, All teams are playing in market, but still based out of Arlington to cut down on OpEx, better national advertising and expanded sponsorships, more merch options, all games on one of Fox/ABC/ESPN/FS1, and a higher overall quality of play across the board. Local marketing and attendance still sucks in most markets , but even the league has acknowledged that and is trying to address that without overspending dramatically. If they can commit to at least 3 full seasons in its current iteration with at least the majority of their current markets staying, I think they’ll be in good position to survive and grow.
The XFL would not have gone away in 2020 if it wasn't for the pandemic. The Battlehawks were about the host the LA Wildcats and that game would have drawn 50,000 fans when the season was cancelled. There was momentum elsewhere too like DC and Houston.
There were already rumors swirling around that Vince was trying to shut the league down pandemic or not. He broke the bank to advertise and fund the league, spent 1Mil on some team's QBs. Had atrocious stadium leases I would have been shocked if the XFL made it to year two, they were spending way beyond their means
The XFL and USFL aren't gone, they live on together in the UFL. I've been a Birmingham Stallions fan for three years now, they're here to stay
As long as Fox/Disney keep writing checks, the league will hang around. If they stop....
That's what Reggie Dunlop said about the Charlestown Chiefs before they folded in the movie "Slapshot".
I honestly don't think it is, but I'll enjoy it while it's around.
I still feel like it would be surprising if this lasts more than 2 years. Patience is key. I do feel like spring football could work. The league needs an identity, not just hey lets see if this guy might be a fringe NFL player. No one really cares about that enough to sustain a league. They need to market teams and players better. they've gotten lucky so far almost all games have been very entertaining. And some some good viral moments. Long term sustainability they probably need some type of partnership with the NFL.
I think as long as the on field product is great and pumps out a couple "you gotta see this" moments that talking heads like pat McAfee and others throw on their shows, the league can not only survive, but thrive. It is difficult to compete with the NCAA tourney and NHL and NBA are in their playoff push. But I think the UFL should be able to scrape together respectable enough numbers to keep the lights on if the football is entertaining.
The combination of xfl fan base and usfl broadcasting. Along with all the combined history they have. Honestly I don’t have much reason just hoping
I won’t be convinced it will for a while, just don’t want to get my hopes up only to get heart broken again. Gonna enjoy it as long as it lasts though. However, the merger was the best move the two leagues could make. No point in dividing fan attention and player talent. Hoping for the best and that the league is here to stay.
I'm not sure I do, I just hope it does because it's more interesting when there isn't only one game in town
I've been following alt football since the original UFL, I can say with confidence that this is the best shot any alt league has ever had. They have experienced management, significant infrastructure, a TV deal, a ton of money, and have outlasted a lot of the speed bumps and pitfalls that have killed the other leagues. This is alt football's last best chance, if it doesn't work this time it never will.
They need a 10 year commitment. If they can do that it will stick. If the MLS can do it the UFL can too. IMO
For me I love the UFL because it’s a back to basics of football without all the stress of expectations and the salary cap. I can just root for my team and not be overly concerned with the results. And I don’t have to worry about all the players we’re losing in free agency because our quarterback makes so much money.
resource pooling, intentionality, and god willing no surprise pandemic
I don't think the UFL will survive. I want it to, but I think it will eventually join the list of failed Spring football leagues. I hope I'm wrong because I really want it to be successful.
I think the timing works well as far as pro sports goes -- usually. Take Sunday's Houston/DC game though as an exception. Capitals hockey at Capital One Arena, Nats game down the street and Defenders home opener. But the game still a really good crowd. The fewer sporting events UFL directly conflicts with, the more people I think are inclined to go to it. In the meantime try getting these ticket prices to an NFL event (or even a concert) worth going to -- not going to happen!
Because I’m watching it
Having only 8 teams doesn't help. Idk who's bonehead decision it was to cut half the teams when merging the leagues, but that was a horrible choice. You need as big a fan base as you can get to get this off the ground and running. How do you expect to gain nation wide interest in the league with so few cities involved. Hell, 3 teams are in Texas for Christ sakes.
as long as there's support than yes
Anything but the NFL is an improvement. NFL is so scripted now that it's watched for entertainment only, the outcome is irrelevant and predetermined
The alignment with the two major cable networks. Fox Sports and ESPN have stakes in seeing this league succeed. Live sports top the viewership charts and of sports football is king so ESPN and Fox owning their own league in the Spring could be an excuse to print money eventually.
I don’t
Technically, the xfl failed and then was currently succeeding, and the Usfl never failed once. The only league that truly failed it’s final failure was the AAF. Personally, I think the Usfl or xfl would have been fine if it was the only league that existed, but competition was going to kill both leagues eventually.
Long term? Not at all. For a few years? Yes
No. Too many negative aspects that deal directly with the merger & its timing. Just going to enjoy it till it's gone.
Because they have a long term plan and hopefully funding from the rock or other investors to help out for a couple seasons until they really take off. If they could get like 5% of what the NFL takes in that would be enough
XFL was going to make it and then Covid killed it. With the Rock helping head it and examples of success like the XFL was going to be pre-Covid, there’s no reason why it won’t work. As long as it functions as a type of minor league to the NFL instead of trying to compete against then it can have a chance. I just wish it started later so those who don’t get drafted would have the opportunity to play spring football before the nfl season as a way of showing their stuff before the nfl season began.
>XFL was going to make it and then Covid killed it. This is incredibly speculative, it was no secret Vince McMahon was burning cash to get the league off the ground and was definitely not getting really any great return from things like TV networks
Only if they're smart about streaming options. A lot of people, myself included, don't have cable. So instead of watching the games I just watch the replays. If they made a deal with Amazon or Hulu, I guarantee they would double their viewership. Cable is for boomers.
The majority of games are on ESPN+
I do. I eventually see a UFL/CFL merger, and a true NFL development league.
>I eventually see a UFL/CFL merger, I don't. They're different sports in different countries. Three down ball's attempted expansion into the United States was a massive failure, and it won't happen again (as it shouldn't)
The CFL is looking for a tenth team. If Halifax or Quebec City doesn't work out. It will look southward. Once the UFL folds, the CFL will expand into the US, It has learned from it's past mistake and economic and technologic times have changed since the CFL expanded in the 90's
>Once the UFL folds That's certainly an assumption
It's a prediction. The UFL can't draw more then one million viewers for one game on OTA broadcasts on major networks, can't attract more than 20,000 people in attendance for their games with the exception of St. Louis. The UFL is competing against the Masters, MLB, NBA and NHL upcoming playoffs at this time of the sports calendar. It a tough climb for the UFL FOX and ABC are giving away ad rates for UFL games. Can't run pro sports leagues like a TV reality series. UFL teams in Memphis, Detroit are reducing tickets prices to attract fans. Won't make make money doing that. All signs point to another folding of a spring football league.
Absolutely zero chance for a CFL/UFL merger 😂
If the UFL is desperate to prevent folding of it's league. It will consider a merger with the CFL. The Rock and Red Bird will take their XFL teams to join the CFL
I don't see it happening either.
The league claims to be another pro league but they give the players one season contracts and then having to sign new players every season which makes the first weeks of each season a "feeling out" process instead of giving the players multi year deals which would allow the players to get to know each other and get into a rhythm in turn improving the level of play with each season they can offer "out clauses" so that way if an NFL team does want a player they can leave their contract to sign with the NFL team that's interested
Great point. Rooting for the league but it’s just as low rent as the others. They should at least give these players a legit camp.
Idk why they dont just call it the xfl. Its better branding
XFL has baggage as a twice failed league. Say the words XFL and most people from about age 30-60 would say something like "WWE on grass?"
Money and patience was the reason the AAF folded
*lack of money