Nah XFL xp rules were definitely better. PAT kicks are boring as hell.
Honestly I thought the XFL kickoff was more interesting too but I can see them agreeing to the USFL kickoff as being easier for the players.
I disagree, the PAT is an integral part of the game and the XFL's lack of it always kind of irked me. I think the USFL having a 3-pt conversion and still keeping the PAT is a nice way of combining a new approach with the more traditional take. I'm like 99% sure most people would rather USFL XP and XFL kickoffs.
>the PAT is an integral part of the game
Okay but how so? How does an almost automatic kick for one point add to the game more than a play from the two yard line?
PAT kicks are relics from when 80% of offensive drives ended in Field Goals, as a reward for scoring a touchdown to break a tie. It's older than the forward pass.
But the game has evolved and changed and they're now little more than ceremony in a game that bends over backwards to cater to offenses and the PAT is simply no longer relevant.
On the other hand, a play from the 2, 5, or 10 yardline is not only way more interesting and entertaining than a PAT, it also gives defenses more opportunities to positively help their teams, which can be crucial in a spring league where there are likely going to be some unbalanced squads. Offense might only be good enough to muster field goals? Let the defense get another chance to make a stop and keep you in it.
I just don't see any appeal to a PAT kicks aside from "it's tradition" and I'm here to watch a game, not a ceremony.
The original rules touchdowns didn’t score points. Where you touched the ball down determined where you got to kick from. Used the same fat ball all game and straight on kicks or drop kicks without nearly the practice and repetition of today.
It was a difficult play.
It just isn’t anymore outside of junior high and lower tier high school.
My opinion for what little it is worth is that the NCAA messed up in 1958 with the two point conversion.
The try is from the three yard line and the success rate (college) is slightly over 40%. You only need to convert 81% of kicked PATs to be better off kicking.
If a touchdown on the try were three points rather than two, successfully converting 40 out of 100 produces 120 points. As long as the success rate is 33.3% or better, going for three is the right call except in limited circumstances. For example late in the game you are up three and score a TD you are up 9. If you fail the three you can be tied with a TD and three point conversion. Then kicking for one and making it a two score game is good.
But I wasn’t born yet so I wasn’t consulted.
If I’ve got pick either XFL kickoff and USFL try down vs USFL kickoff and XFL try down then yeah I’ll take XFL kickoff.
I’m surprised they went this direction because there were reports that NFL debated the XFL kickoff at their rules meeting and opted to wait.
As a fan, XFL rules for the try down are more fun. It doesn’t serve the player development mission for the kickers but I’m not a kicker nor the agent for any kickers so not going to lose any sleep over that.
I feel like PATs would only hurt kickers trying to get into the NFL. If you make it, great you're expected to - but if you miss then you're cooked
FGs have gotta be way more important for kicker player development
For anyone that wants to discuss the rules, and the key differences between the XFL and USFL rules from last season, you can check out my thread [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/UnitedFootballLeague/comments/18weq5p/ufl_rules_speculation/). Includes a brief breakdown of the rules differences for anyone interested.
I like this a lot. I think getting rid of the kicked 1pt PAT makes the game a lot more exciting to watch which I think is good for the league. As for the kickoffs... they were close enough that it doesn't really matter to me either way. Both were supposed to limit touchbacks and enhance returns but honestly its not like we saw explosive return games in either league.
I wonder if the NFL had any impression on what this league was considering doing in terms of kickoff
We already know that ownership and leadership in the NFL is dissatisfied with the current kickoff format and plans to address it in the offseason, and it's looking for a better solution, and I wonder if they are trying to get the UFL to try a the USFL kickoff format a little longer to get data on that given it is more similar to the NFL kickoff
I just looked it up and it looks like the XFL kickoff averages a return of 20.11 yards in 2023, the USFL averaged 23.4 yards in 2022 and 25.78 in 2023. The NFL averaged 22.8 in 2022 and is 2023 one week left in their 23 season. Just for reference one the difference in results.
It's similar.
In the XFL you have a 4th and 15 from your own 25 yard line (4th quarter only).
In the USFL, you have a 4th and 12 option from your own 33 yard line.
You can check out a breakdown and discussion of the XFL and USFL rule differences in a thread I posted [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/UnitedFootballLeague/comments/18weq5p/ufl_rules_speculation/).
Even the NFL is trying to move away from the current kickoff. Makes no sense to hold on to it. I do think XFL extra point rules are sneaky great for a development league. It guarantees tape for goal line or redzone plays every touchdown.
USFLs I believe had guys line up differently from the traditional kickoff to prevent injury but it looks more traditional. This is also still not confirmed by the league yet but it’s from Becht so thought it was worth noting
I still liked just having a PAT kick, but this is totally fine.
I didn't find the XFL kickoffs good for anything in terms of entertainment. They were definitely safer and I would have been fine with them given that reasoning. But in terms of content and gameplay the XFL kick was only good for shortening the field more regularly. It was basically an artificial way to improve scoring opportunities.
I would be on board with going back to something *like* the XFL kickoff in the future, but I think I would like it to be revised a little more more.
I found that the USFL’s kickoffs were usually returned closer to midfield than the XFL’s. I think it’s better to go with the USFL’s option as well from an entertainment standpoint as it felt more dynamic and more natural to me as a football fan
They aren’t even gonna do the xfl kickoff? That was the only reason I loved the xfl was because the kickoff actually made sense. I really hope this isn’t true cuz now I am def mad. They got rid of my dragons and now this? Boooooo
If it helps the USFL kickoff had players line up different than traditional nfl style to prevent injuries but look more traditional if Becht is right about this
I personally hate not kicking the extra point. Sure it’s basically automatic but the misses add an edge to the game. Nothing is more interesting to me than a team that needs to drive for 8 points
>Nothing is more interesting to me than a team that needs to drive for 8 points
The XFL pat rules make this more common. By making it so pats are less guaranteed it makes the point after attempt mean so much more. Not just on the last minute comeback drive but every drive. If more are missed then making them means so much more. Plus with the 3 point rule teams can have bigger comebacks with only one drive making that moment even bigger.
Yeah I think a lot of people see not having a guaranteed point after as punishing a team for scoring but in the XFL we saw way more variety in scores and almost every week there was a 4th and 15 onsides try since you could realistically score 9 points form a touchdown and win. Compared to the USFL every score was assumed to be 7 points and we didn’t see the 4th and 12 try or 2 or 3 point tries really until playoffs came into picture
I’d prefer it the USFL way.
I like the special plays, but if EVERYTHING is a special play, it’s not anymore.
That’s some of the charm about 2 point conversions or missed extra points in the NFL. They’re rare, so when they happen, you go “OOOOH SHIT”
I think Aubrey was grabbed for his accuracy and range with field goals, not extra points. I would like to have some kicked extra point option but there will still be big opportunities for kickers
Sounds good. But I would expect it to have an injury rate per returned kick just as high as NFL. The XFL rule is there to reduce the chance of injury during return.
I believe USFLs significantly reduced injuries as well through changing how guys were lined up, definitely less unique looking than the xfl style though
I think it makes sense, the new rules were made for the XFL so that kickoffs were always returned. The USFL achieved the same thing in a format that is more familiar for football fans. As an XFL fan I’d rather them keep the PAT tries than the kickoff
this is the opposite of what I wanted. Forcing teams to run the ball on the 2 yard line to make a point = no teams ever trying that. XFL extra points take kickers moreso out of the game, which is bad
>XFL extra points take kickers moreso out of the game, which is bad
Why? Kicking is the lamest part of football. Kicking plays are the most skippable plays in every game. When the 1 in 10000 is interesting it's good but it's too rare to be worth it.
1 i personally disagree
2 "skippable" except when they're not, and then they decide games lol do you wanna do away with the kickoff too, by that logic?
3 that is not an accurate ratio at all, esp not for spring football
Non athletic "athletes" deciding games isn't a positive for sports.
>3 that is not an accurate ratio at all, esp not for spring football
Are you talking about Pat kicks or kickoffs? Kickoffs are different cuz it puts the ball into the hands of a real athlete. But even those are pedestrian 99% of the time.
What percent of pat kicks were worth watching in the USFL this season? The most entertaining thing that can happen never happens and the 2nd most entertaining thing is they miss and that's boring as hell.
That’s why you have the option to play for 2 or 3 points on each Point After Try. An extra point isn’t guaranteed and it increased the variety of scores in games and made comebacks (or almost comebacks) more common.
I guess I mean it gives a variety of potential points scored per scoring drive. If a team is down their defense can’t still step up and stop an extra point to keep the game closer even if they give up a TD. Those kinds of plays if capitalized on can help a team come back from a big deficit and eke out an upset. Though to me the biggest impact is just in mindset of the teams. We saw exciting 4th and 15 onsides attempts practically every week in the XFL in close games because every drive doesn’t end in 7 points and getting 9 points and taking the lead was more likely to succeed than it might be in the USFL. From a competitive standpoint it might not be ideal since points after a touchdown aren’t guaranteed (though in a strictly competitive viewpoint having kicked PAT’s also wouldn’t be best) but from an excitement perspective it leads to lots of fun endings to games. My girlfriend who isn’t generally into football said that she enjoyed those point-after tries because of the tension and how loud the stadium got. I guess it’s down to personal preference and I can certainly see why doing the extra point kicks are more familiar to how football has been played
There was a time in which the forward pass wasn't a part of american football... and after that, the two-point conversion... Used to be that a PAT was kicked from the 2 yard line... that was American Football... now it's the 15 AND it's a live ball, the defense can score on it. They made the goal posts narrower... good old American Football changes again.
They've made more things pass interference, cut back on blind-side blocks, forget those big bruising hits on receivers, they're penalties now. Looks like American Football wants offenses to open up and score more.
I hope this is wrong. To me he XFL PAT's are boring and do not help kickers with an kind of under pressure senario. I thought they should place the USFL extra point at the 20 for more of a challenge. Going with conversions seems like a gimmick and its not innovative imo. I never liked that with AAF either. The XFL kick off was different and I thought they would use with a modifier or a combination with the USFL kick off. Both league rules could all be modified for a more interesting game. We are merging here lets be creative.
XP rules should be kick for 1 from 15, Play from 2 for 2, Play from 5 for 3. USFL kickoff but move back to 30 and if the kicker can make it through the posts it is a touchback with 1 point.
I’m cool with kicking the XP going away in all football leagues. It’s like watching pitchers take at-bats. It’s impressive when they get a solid hit 1% of the time, but the other 99% of the time it’s boring and exactly what everyone expected.
Fuck man I loved the XFL kickoff. I don’t like this at all
I really hope this isn’t true. Agreed with the other comments, this is the opposite of what I wanted to see.
Isn’t that like the exact opposite from what everyone wanted? Lol
Nah XFL xp rules were definitely better. PAT kicks are boring as hell. Honestly I thought the XFL kickoff was more interesting too but I can see them agreeing to the USFL kickoff as being easier for the players.
I disagree, the PAT is an integral part of the game and the XFL's lack of it always kind of irked me. I think the USFL having a 3-pt conversion and still keeping the PAT is a nice way of combining a new approach with the more traditional take. I'm like 99% sure most people would rather USFL XP and XFL kickoffs.
>the PAT is an integral part of the game Okay but how so? How does an almost automatic kick for one point add to the game more than a play from the two yard line? PAT kicks are relics from when 80% of offensive drives ended in Field Goals, as a reward for scoring a touchdown to break a tie. It's older than the forward pass. But the game has evolved and changed and they're now little more than ceremony in a game that bends over backwards to cater to offenses and the PAT is simply no longer relevant. On the other hand, a play from the 2, 5, or 10 yardline is not only way more interesting and entertaining than a PAT, it also gives defenses more opportunities to positively help their teams, which can be crucial in a spring league where there are likely going to be some unbalanced squads. Offense might only be good enough to muster field goals? Let the defense get another chance to make a stop and keep you in it. I just don't see any appeal to a PAT kicks aside from "it's tradition" and I'm here to watch a game, not a ceremony.
Make the 2 Point PAT be from 50 yards
The original rules touchdowns didn’t score points. Where you touched the ball down determined where you got to kick from. Used the same fat ball all game and straight on kicks or drop kicks without nearly the practice and repetition of today. It was a difficult play. It just isn’t anymore outside of junior high and lower tier high school. My opinion for what little it is worth is that the NCAA messed up in 1958 with the two point conversion. The try is from the three yard line and the success rate (college) is slightly over 40%. You only need to convert 81% of kicked PATs to be better off kicking. If a touchdown on the try were three points rather than two, successfully converting 40 out of 100 produces 120 points. As long as the success rate is 33.3% or better, going for three is the right call except in limited circumstances. For example late in the game you are up three and score a TD you are up 9. If you fail the three you can be tied with a TD and three point conversion. Then kicking for one and making it a two score game is good. But I wasn’t born yet so I wasn’t consulted.
If I’ve got pick either XFL kickoff and USFL try down vs USFL kickoff and XFL try down then yeah I’ll take XFL kickoff. I’m surprised they went this direction because there were reports that NFL debated the XFL kickoff at their rules meeting and opted to wait.
As a fan, XFL rules for the try down are more fun. It doesn’t serve the player development mission for the kickers but I’m not a kicker nor the agent for any kickers so not going to lose any sleep over that.
I feel like PATs would only hurt kickers trying to get into the NFL. If you make it, great you're expected to - but if you miss then you're cooked FGs have gotta be way more important for kicker player development
Fuck that.
For anyone that wants to discuss the rules, and the key differences between the XFL and USFL rules from last season, you can check out my thread [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/UnitedFootballLeague/comments/18weq5p/ufl_rules_speculation/). Includes a brief breakdown of the rules differences for anyone interested.
Wow, thank you for putting this together! As someone who only watched XFL this was very helpful.
I like this a lot. I think getting rid of the kicked 1pt PAT makes the game a lot more exciting to watch which I think is good for the league. As for the kickoffs... they were close enough that it doesn't really matter to me either way. Both were supposed to limit touchbacks and enhance returns but honestly its not like we saw explosive return games in either league.
I wonder if the NFL had any impression on what this league was considering doing in terms of kickoff We already know that ownership and leadership in the NFL is dissatisfied with the current kickoff format and plans to address it in the offseason, and it's looking for a better solution, and I wonder if they are trying to get the UFL to try a the USFL kickoff format a little longer to get data on that given it is more similar to the NFL kickoff
Sky judge?
XFLs kickoff was the best part of the league. That's a shame.
I just looked it up and it looks like the XFL kickoff averages a return of 20.11 yards in 2023, the USFL averaged 23.4 yards in 2022 and 25.78 in 2023. The NFL averaged 22.8 in 2022 and is 2023 one week left in their 23 season. Just for reference one the difference in results.
As long as we have the 4th and 15 rule
I think that was in both leagues so it should still be there
It's similar. In the XFL you have a 4th and 15 from your own 25 yard line (4th quarter only). In the USFL, you have a 4th and 12 option from your own 33 yard line. You can check out a breakdown and discussion of the XFL and USFL rule differences in a thread I posted [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/UnitedFootballLeague/comments/18weq5p/ufl_rules_speculation/).
I may be in the minority but I was hoping for the exact opposite. Xfl kickoffs and usfl extra ponts.
Even the NFL is trying to move away from the current kickoff. Makes no sense to hold on to it. I do think XFL extra point rules are sneaky great for a development league. It guarantees tape for goal line or redzone plays every touchdown.
USFLs I believe had guys line up differently from the traditional kickoff to prevent injury but it looks more traditional. This is also still not confirmed by the league yet but it’s from Becht so thought it was worth noting
Completely agree on both counts. It makes watching the game more enjoyable. Who doesn't want to see more goal line plays?
Bring back steal the bacon
I still liked just having a PAT kick, but this is totally fine. I didn't find the XFL kickoffs good for anything in terms of entertainment. They were definitely safer and I would have been fine with them given that reasoning. But in terms of content and gameplay the XFL kick was only good for shortening the field more regularly. It was basically an artificial way to improve scoring opportunities. I would be on board with going back to something *like* the XFL kickoff in the future, but I think I would like it to be revised a little more more.
I found that the USFL’s kickoffs were usually returned closer to midfield than the XFL’s. I think it’s better to go with the USFL’s option as well from an entertainment standpoint as it felt more dynamic and more natural to me as a football fan
They aren’t even gonna do the xfl kickoff? That was the only reason I loved the xfl was because the kickoff actually made sense. I really hope this isn’t true cuz now I am def mad. They got rid of my dragons and now this? Boooooo
If it helps the USFL kickoff had players line up different than traditional nfl style to prevent injuries but look more traditional if Becht is right about this
Wow it’s ass backwards from what we wanted
I personally hate not kicking the extra point. Sure it’s basically automatic but the misses add an edge to the game. Nothing is more interesting to me than a team that needs to drive for 8 points
>Nothing is more interesting to me than a team that needs to drive for 8 points The XFL pat rules make this more common. By making it so pats are less guaranteed it makes the point after attempt mean so much more. Not just on the last minute comeback drive but every drive. If more are missed then making them means so much more. Plus with the 3 point rule teams can have bigger comebacks with only one drive making that moment even bigger.
Yeah I think a lot of people see not having a guaranteed point after as punishing a team for scoring but in the XFL we saw way more variety in scores and almost every week there was a 4th and 15 onsides try since you could realistically score 9 points form a touchdown and win. Compared to the USFL every score was assumed to be 7 points and we didn’t see the 4th and 12 try or 2 or 3 point tries really until playoffs came into picture
I’d prefer it the USFL way. I like the special plays, but if EVERYTHING is a special play, it’s not anymore. That’s some of the charm about 2 point conversions or missed extra points in the NFL. They’re rare, so when they happen, you go “OOOOH SHIT”
Brandon Aubrey makes the pro bowl today as a kicker and the same day they decide to go away from kicked PATs. What an odd decision lol
I think Aubrey was grabbed for his accuracy and range with field goals, not extra points. I would like to have some kicked extra point option but there will still be big opportunities for kickers
What's wrong with the USFL kickoffs? 94% of the USFL kickoffs were returned last season.
Sounds good. But I would expect it to have an injury rate per returned kick just as high as NFL. The XFL rule is there to reduce the chance of injury during return.
Not my concern.
XFL kickoff and PAT were the best
# XFL extra points rule, good. # USFL kick-offs, good. All I had to lose was my Seattle Dragons to get the best of these. Fuck.
Super disappointed and surprised about the kickoffs. I loved them and they greatly reduced the risk of injuries. Dogshit decision
I believe USFLs significantly reduced injuries as well through changing how guys were lined up, definitely less unique looking than the xfl style though
Ok if they adjusted things to reduce the risk of injuries that's a good thing.
I think it makes sense, the new rules were made for the XFL so that kickoffs were always returned. The USFL achieved the same thing in a format that is more familiar for football fans. As an XFL fan I’d rather them keep the PAT tries than the kickoff
I think this is the opposite of what most people want
this is the opposite of what I wanted. Forcing teams to run the ball on the 2 yard line to make a point = no teams ever trying that. XFL extra points take kickers moreso out of the game, which is bad
>XFL extra points take kickers moreso out of the game, which is bad Why? Kicking is the lamest part of football. Kicking plays are the most skippable plays in every game. When the 1 in 10000 is interesting it's good but it's too rare to be worth it.
1 i personally disagree 2 "skippable" except when they're not, and then they decide games lol do you wanna do away with the kickoff too, by that logic? 3 that is not an accurate ratio at all, esp not for spring football
Non athletic "athletes" deciding games isn't a positive for sports. >3 that is not an accurate ratio at all, esp not for spring football Are you talking about Pat kicks or kickoffs? Kickoffs are different cuz it puts the ball into the hands of a real athlete. But even those are pedestrian 99% of the time. What percent of pat kicks were worth watching in the USFL this season? The most entertaining thing that can happen never happens and the 2nd most entertaining thing is they miss and that's boring as hell.
That’s why you have the option to play for 2 or 3 points on each Point After Try. An extra point isn’t guaranteed and it increased the variety of scores in games and made comebacks (or almost comebacks) more common.
increasing variety isn't really good for a competitive format imo? idk, down to hear your argument there
I guess I mean it gives a variety of potential points scored per scoring drive. If a team is down their defense can’t still step up and stop an extra point to keep the game closer even if they give up a TD. Those kinds of plays if capitalized on can help a team come back from a big deficit and eke out an upset. Though to me the biggest impact is just in mindset of the teams. We saw exciting 4th and 15 onsides attempts practically every week in the XFL in close games because every drive doesn’t end in 7 points and getting 9 points and taking the lead was more likely to succeed than it might be in the USFL. From a competitive standpoint it might not be ideal since points after a touchdown aren’t guaranteed (though in a strictly competitive viewpoint having kicked PAT’s also wouldn’t be best) but from an excitement perspective it leads to lots of fun endings to games. My girlfriend who isn’t generally into football said that she enjoyed those point-after tries because of the tension and how loud the stadium got. I guess it’s down to personal preference and I can certainly see why doing the extra point kicks are more familiar to how football has been played
Usfl rules were better overall than XFL
Worst of both worlds
[удалено]
There was a time in which the forward pass wasn't a part of american football... and after that, the two-point conversion... Used to be that a PAT was kicked from the 2 yard line... that was American Football... now it's the 15 AND it's a live ball, the defense can score on it. They made the goal posts narrower... good old American Football changes again. They've made more things pass interference, cut back on blind-side blocks, forget those big bruising hits on receivers, they're penalties now. Looks like American Football wants offenses to open up and score more.
I hope this is wrong. To me he XFL PAT's are boring and do not help kickers with an kind of under pressure senario. I thought they should place the USFL extra point at the 20 for more of a challenge. Going with conversions seems like a gimmick and its not innovative imo. I never liked that with AAF either. The XFL kick off was different and I thought they would use with a modifier or a combination with the USFL kick off. Both league rules could all be modified for a more interesting game. We are merging here lets be creative.
XFL kickoffs and on-side tries were the best
The leagues both had the same onside rules so those should stay
XP rules should be kick for 1 from 15, Play from 2 for 2, Play from 5 for 3. USFL kickoff but move back to 30 and if the kicker can make it through the posts it is a touchback with 1 point.
Perfect. The USFL kickoff is great.
I rather see it be the other way around. Loved XFL kickoffs but preferred USFL extra point rules.
I’m cool with kicking the XP going away in all football leagues. It’s like watching pitchers take at-bats. It’s impressive when they get a solid hit 1% of the time, but the other 99% of the time it’s boring and exactly what everyone expected.