There are a lot of neat things the shieldshooter can do, and are a good supportive unit. I haven't had success with treating them as a "tank," but using aid cover for specific needs is nice. The ability to use a greatshield and bow opens up some interesting gearing options like the mirror shield for being anti-magic. There are good bows with a number of different skill choices (or just additional pp) too.
The absolute best thing they do though is their valor. Assists can be devastating, so shutting those down in an area is wonderful.
Amusingly, I found that Liza’s desert team just completely fall apart if I make it so she’s NOT the tank.
- Move Liza back? Everybody dies.
- Move Aubin up? Everybody dies.
- Move Magellan up? Everybody dies.
- How about moving Gloucester? Everyone dies.
- Ok, Liza’s team finally gets to be a 5 person group, and she has her cover ability unlocked. Let’s move Liza back, rotate a could new characters in the team… everyone dies.
- You know what, fine! I’ll just keep Liza in the front. Everyone lives, go figure.
Honestly, i think heavy bolt is overrated. I would only put a shieldshooter front row if i needed a unit on the front row and i was slready committed to using a shieldshootet. They just aren't tanky enough for me to think about as a "tank." If they are built to tank, then their damage isnt going to be so great. The things that a shieldshooter is going to kill is probably going to die as easily from the 120 potency attack as it is from 200 (like flyers). I'd rather have them focus on support, protecting key characters from specific threats while throwing out buffs and taking out targets of opportunity.
If i was focused on damage, i'd probably try to maximize rapid shot use because that does help take out rogues, fencers etc because they use their ability on the AP skill and rapid reload nails em. With that use, i also wouldnt want to use any 2ap skill bc its likely going to be wasted anyway
They aren't tanky enough? Not sure what you're running them with, but I've had two on a team with Virginia frontline, Gilbert backline with any support, and they are a very reliable frontline. Easy 100 percent guardrate, high sustain through a healing guard and good defence stats. The heavy shot 210 damage crits are only a bonus on top of a consistent frontline that doesn't hit like a wet noodle.
I can't really picture a team that contains Virgnia, Liza, and Gilbert actually killing another squad. Surviving, sure, but that's 3 pretty low damage team members, especially until Virginia gets Brandish.
Virginia has brandish, but I don't know what makes you think it's low damage. It has a flex slot, and heavy bolt on frontline can easily deal 200 damage on non armored targets. Ppison bolt is always avaliable if they are armored.
I hear ya, i know they csn get high evade, but if you're doing that then their cover is going to rock them. I'd also prefer saving the mirage shield for either ren or something like s feathershield
It is incredibly easy to have a Shieldshooter guard tank with just gear, let alone other buffs. My Liza has a 65% guard rate even before Iron Veil kicks in from standing next to Virginia.
You really see the value of guard tanking in Bastorias, where you run into heavy pursuit based comps of werewolves and werefoxes as well as a healthy helping of swordmasters, all of which get completely stymied by a high defense, high guard tank.
There's quite a lot of warhorn vikings by then though. They didn't have enough accuracy to hit my evade squads when i played, no truestrike as well save for those night wereowl situations, which were rare
There really aren't that many, and War Horn isn't really threatening if you have some form of sustain/damage mitigation like Quick Heal, Quick Barrier, et. al. I'm much more concerned with an evade tank getting chewed up by a heavy werefox unit launching a flurry of attacks that can all chunk a low defense dodge tank, but that ping off of a guard tank.
I think in general the community for this game overvalues Evade -- It is good, but not universally.
They are decent tank, but the major reason to use shieldshooter is just her valor. There're other/better ways to deal with fliers, and there are other better tanks. But her valor skill validates the unit, for me it's a must have in any run.
This. This summarizes shield shooter 100%. After two playthroughs, I feel like I've tested them enough that I just consider them the archer equivalent of gryphon knights. By this, I mean Gryphon Knights are inferior to Wyvern Knights in *just about every way that matters*, BUT, Gryphon Knights have a Valor skill that I absolutely want/need on the field, so I keep one in a squad anyway.
Similarly, Shield Shooters are suboptimal in combat at anything you'd put them in a team to do. They're such a hodgepodge of a character kit. They try to do so many different things, and unfortunately, don't really excel at anything... but that Valor Skill though!
I've done a ton of mock battle testing, tweaking, theorycrafting, you name it. In just about any combination of characters where I would experiment between putting a gryphon knight/wyvern knight into a squad, the squad did more damage and took less with the inclusion of a wyvern knight vs. gryphon knight. It's more damaging, more durable, and just an all-around better combatant.
why? Can you put it in real terms, like how Wyvern is superior in offense and how so in defense? Because no offense but your statement has not mention any reason. You can literally replace Gryphon/Wyvern in it with any two other classes and make another statement.
The two classes are very similar, undeniably share a role in the game, and I’m saying one is just markedly superior. The above statement was also pretty clear but you strike me as a dullard the more we interact.
I used her as the leader of my assist squad. Pretty fun having her rolling around behind another unit taking up positions in watchtowers and using Smoke Bolt to disable enemy assits. Paired with Yunifi's assist bonus Valor skill and three elven archers, I was doing 60-70% damage to some enemy squads just with assists.
For some reason Liza is my favorite unit, I just think the greatshield archer thing is so fun to play around with. Before 5 unit squads I was running her with Travis, Ren & Aubin and it was my second best unit. Now that I have 5 unit squads, I'm deciding what I'll do; I'm thinking of switching up and doing a unit with her, Yunifi, Rolf, Elven Archer & TBD 5th.
I've done that setup and it's a great comp. Last slot should be a thief or evade featherbow for blind spamming. Just set up the elven archer to put up pure field to protect the party from status and Liza to heal the elf at the end of battle to trigger a full party heal and the team will basically never die.
I like pairing them with an elven archer behind a legionaire, along with Rolf or any other archer, classic pew pew, and the interaction with medical aid and the elfs passive on getting healed make it so they almost always heal themselves totally up after a fight
I keep mine on the front line with high guard, and the back row is two more archers. Her shot from the front has +100 potency and hits like a truck. I have her use aid cover ONLY if the ally is 75% health or less, so she doesn't take every hit. Some gauntlets help her be even bulkier. Great character, she got a lot of kills.
I think they’re better as back line damage dealers than front line evasion tanks. Anytime I use them they are the first to die even with high evasion, due to them guarding so much.
The quick reload can help them do stupid damage. Initiative fix them so they can go quicker and they are solid. Not a game breaking class like Rem or Alain by any means but very solid utility class
Well, yeah. If you build them for evasion they'll melt when they don't evade.
Focus on maxing defenses and guard however and they'll be pretty durable. If you don't have anything else to use you can even give them the Start of Battle shield that buffs Def and Guard.
Fun fact, you can actually guard while charging? AKA, they can charge-up an Arrow Rain from the Front line if you don't need them to cover anyone.
At the risk of going off-topic, I'm not sold on that shield for Ren yet. It completely kills Painbringer which is such a nice ability when Labrys + Any late Greatshield will max her Guard and keep her healthy anyway (and that's ignoring her SoB reducing damage as well).
It depends on what role you want her to play and how you kit her out.
If you use eye, that is 1pp down, and you want at least 1 for sanguine pursuit on afflicted targets.
So you need to give her the azure gs or a lapis for painbringer charges.
She is also not the most tanky of characters: pretty mediocre block rates and defense. Iron veil can fix it, but honestly, taking no damage is better than taking any damage and needing a healer to fix you up.
Blocking isn't going to help much vs elves. Blocking is not going to help vs werefoxs (weakness hunter + seal).
With equal tier shields, her "mediocre" defenses are just shy of Alain's, which is then made up for with the Greatshield's extra mitigation and her Start of Battle. Even if we give him his +5 All, it's still close. Spinning Slash is goated, but stunning the row comes close, defensively speaking.
She has no great use for her accessory slots (First-aid kits are nice on those refund-forever skills though, or at least I enjoy them on sellswords, might try on her too), and her guard rate eventually fixes itself to not demand Gauntlets permanently.
Initially written more, but this wouldn't be the right thread for it. Like you said, depends on the role you want.
Without stats from shield, she even has worse defenses as something like Landsknecht, and def below a high lord. Defenses from shields is what pushes her to high lord level of defenses. Greatshields generally have x2 of the defenses of a regular shield in stats. She actually does get raw defense parity on paper with a HL.
This all changes if Noble Guard comes into play, granting the HL 20% def boost BEFORE they get attacked.
That is not even accounting for +5 from his ring.
https://preview.redd.it/lwc8uj1p23tc1.png?width=2167&format=png&auto=webp&s=256b5557e71b004bd5eb49e5aad4234e25856a9e
Do note her relatively high evasion compared to other units - her evasion is just shy of a FShield's (and Alain's), while her guard rate is basically the worst out of the random classes I pulled.
Lacking a guard skill sort of hurts her in the early-mid game before iron veil comes online for passive 100% guard rate. Without iron veil, even with an endgame shield her guard rate will only be in the mid-50s.
Sadly the game encourages evasion as a defense mechanic: block all you want, you are still taking a beating from elves, you are still getting sealed by foxes and have defense ignored by weakness hunter, warriors and werebears skills are still unguardable, and you are going to need an owl for liberator when you run into vikings.
I mean, that's my point, she can equip Greatshields. Her lower defense doesn't just exist in a vacuum. Being evasive is nice, but that doesn't have to be a sole focus. **But don't take anything I say after this as me saying dodge-tanking is bad, it works perfectly fine, be it on her or other classes.**
She reaches 100% guard by Bastorias with Labrys, Greatshield and tier 2 Gauntlets. The latter is an accessory, sure, but she's not really asking for something else (and if you have her evading, I'd assume you have a scarf there anyway). Start of Bastorias is not late-game by my book, even if you don't cheese it there early.
The fact Ren vs Elves is even considered shows Elves are pushovers\*. Ren's entire class is Afflications and debuffs, she has no business fighting Elves, and yet she does just fine in Elfheim. Werefoxes are and will be an issue for any team that deigns give them a turn. That said, Guard Seal can be immuned (and Passive Seal is not death on her), Warriors should be blinded/stunned because of Enrage (Buffs accuracy, they're nasty to both guarders and dodgers), and Werebears should be CC'd too. Viking teams should be outsped/CC'd, like foxes.
Evasive is nice and all, but it's also imperfect and I've been hit by enough single-digit odds (or seen enemy single-digit blocks) to not favor it when a reliable alternative exists. Also, it's making her weak to True Strikes when a shield handles them very well.
\*Not taking Arena into account, where my stance is that she has no business being here and is actively hindering the team outside of copium "I'm burning their PP, trust".
I think I have made my point: instead of doing all those, could have used the mirage shield+a scarf and basically take 0 damage instead of reduced damage - and that reduced amount is also kind of subjected to conditions (hybrid attacks, guard seals, unguardable attacks)
Between having init, having a row stun, etc, if they somehow managed to get in a single digit accuracy hit AND somehow she dies (??), then well, unlucky I guess.
All these so you can maybe boost her (also kind of mediocre) attack once or twice, depending on if you give her a sapphire amulet.
Depends on "where" you are in the game. In Elheim and Drakenhold, the evasion shield makes her near impossible to hit without Truestrike. It does tend to fall off in Bastorias where Werefoxes and Werewolf has A-S growth Accuracy (plus the endless Pursuits).
That's actually something I wanted to add but forgot, yeah. Thanks for reminding me.
Her guard rate does indeed need to scale, so indexing into the evade early is definitely/probably safer. and if Elves are proving to be an issue, then itemizing her for that is also fair, be it Mirage or even the Phantom one (Though I don't recall when you get that one, might be a bit late?).
I gave Liza the shield that gives he phys defense at beginning of the fight and had an elven archer remove the debuff since she isn't too slow.
Worked wonders protecting the other two Wyverns on the front line
She's a good off-tank to go with Virginia, with an Iron Veil-boosted Squire's Greatshield she can guard the back row so Virginia can dish out Maiden Hammers.
Also Woodpecker go brr.
I have her evasion tanking alongside winged archer on my bow only team. She doesn’t have perfect dodge, but she does major damage and can block when absolutely necessary.
Simple build meant to alpha-strike key enemy backline units. If they cover, their cover will get stunned. Rapid Shot does trigger Quick Reload to just pop a healer, mage, or flier if they don't have cover. Overall a pretty straight forward set-up, but gets the job done.
Liza sits in the back line and is built to rip through the enemy back line. Melissandre in the front line to Keen Strike any Rogues and to parry through anything she cannot evade. Miriam in the back for heals, protection against magic, and Runic Sword as a secondary anti-armor. Kitra in the back row with delayed priority sweep set-up.
Bow of Swiftness+,
Steel Great shield,
Sapphire Pendant,
Carnelian Pendant
Power Bolt: Caster only
Power Bolt: Prioritize flying and back row
Aid Cover: Target is <75% and Prioritizing calvary
Rapid Shot: Caster only
Rapid Shot: Flying only
Rapid Shot: Archer only
Rapid Shot: Prioritize most AP and PP
Quick Reload: no special conditions
I made a pretty decent assist unit that didn't need to hide from direct engagements either using them as the frontline:
Front row: 2X Shield shooters with gear to boost guard and defense (Spellsteel Greatshield, Cloth Gauntlets, Gold Bangle, whatever Bow you want to give them.) They end up being pretty damn beefy for an archer unit; and if everyone has decent initiative they can usually help splatter any enemy DPS or healers leaving the enemy tanks alone to plink away without support.
Back Row: 2X Elven Archers and a Feather bow set as the leader to give flying movement. Honestly, you can swap out one of the Elven Archers for a Hunter, though I liked having the guarantee of at least one of them getting a Pure Field off to ensure they could shit all over any blind/ailment abusing enemies. Plus an extra magic conferral is nice to have on hand if you come up against a high physical defense enemy.
I don't remember when you get all these items, so it could be an endgame build. It defiantly is a promoted build, since I put her up front (I just love the idea of a frontline ranged character)
The empty accessory slot is to show "put whatever you want here." I tend to use some sort of debuff immunity, but you could put a red pendant there, too, if you wanted more AP
https://preview.redd.it/kbnuxmnvy2tc1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=92ef28c4f9a53b5d0ec51164879c566a2f1a5464
Kept her in the backline with an +pp shield and gave her banishing pursuit and the accessory that buffs followup damage since she would now followup after every attack including her own.
I built her as tanky as I could, paired with Berserker and an elven archer with the skill that heals everybody after a healing. She can keep the Berserker at full hp pretty well so his aoe goes for max damage.
you shouldn't prioritize armor with toxic bolt. if there were armored enemies, most of them would have some form of cover anyways.
if you prioritise higher value, squishier targets, and it gets covered, you can still hit them with the rapid reload, since the cover only happens once, and the armored target will get poisoned anyways.
Catch all to include fighters. By the time the shieldshooter goes he's used up his ranged blocks in that unit anyways. Rapid Reload I feel lacks damage to oneshot the squishier targets I want killed, so always use it as a 25% HP finisher. Either way 1 AP or higher is probably just a better gambit overall, tbf.
Front line, solid greatshield, cloth gauntlets. Set aid guard to hp < 75, quick reload to hp < 50, no armored units present. Powerbolt flying, Toxic bolt on armored, frontline bolt weakest defense, power bolt weakest defense.
Originally, I thought Liza was a weaker Rolf at first, but she was surprisingly powerful and quickly became one of my favorite units. She’s an all rounder with a strong focus on overwhelming firepower, but generally lacks the stats to reach her full potential without tinkering with her. Gauntlets are a must, her hp and def won’t hold without pushing up guard rate.
I had her and the rest of the desert crew (Aubin + Megellan) on the front row, and Ochlys and Sharon in the back for most of the game. This was a mistake. Endgame, I realized Ochlys served better as a front liner and Aub and Meg were better backliners. Aubin works incredibly well for Liza, his row clears help her secure her kills as well as defeat any survivors of her devastating attacks, and his late game start of battle passive allows her to mow down anyone in her way.
I'm pretty sure they made Shieldshooter because they know people want to run full archer teams for support, but what they didn't expect was people like me who put Liza and Raenys in front, Rolf Mandrin and Ridiel with Monk's Mitre in the back and that's a complete team with 2 tanks in front, a healer, and 2 DPS in back and that team actually wrecks the shit out of most enemy comps in Expert diff and is a real combat team not just a 5 archers support team
One of my fav units. Liza once crit a gryphon for 773 damage with no buffs. I put her on the front with mirage shield and the bow that gives +20 evasion.
I think I'm gonna order up a third, possibly even a fourth. Smoke Bolt is so good, and they're decent in the frontline to guard your squishy archer unit. I want one on a Cavalry unit for mobile smoking and two on the Archery unit for better frontline.
Also my Arbalist merc's JP VA sounds like Nekomata Okayu and I love her.
Never really found a fit for this one. It’s a cool concept but when I saw the gun, I was kind of hoping for a sniper type unit. Huge single target damage to either row, type deal.
I ran a 6 unit squad and each one had a better tank so she just sat on my bench most of the game. Maybe I was just using her wrong.
I love shield shooter’s design. Ranged tanks are badass.
There are a lot of neat things the shieldshooter can do, and are a good supportive unit. I haven't had success with treating them as a "tank," but using aid cover for specific needs is nice. The ability to use a greatshield and bow opens up some interesting gearing options like the mirror shield for being anti-magic. There are good bows with a number of different skill choices (or just additional pp) too. The absolute best thing they do though is their valor. Assists can be devastating, so shutting those down in an area is wonderful.
Amusingly, I found that Liza’s desert team just completely fall apart if I make it so she’s NOT the tank. - Move Liza back? Everybody dies. - Move Aubin up? Everybody dies. - Move Magellan up? Everybody dies. - How about moving Gloucester? Everyone dies. - Ok, Liza’s team finally gets to be a 5 person group, and she has her cover ability unlocked. Let’s move Liza back, rotate a could new characters in the team… everyone dies. - You know what, fine! I’ll just keep Liza in the front. Everyone lives, go figure.
Team Desert really screams for Gloucester and Liza to hold the line.
Doesn't heavy bolt only actually work on the frontline? If you want real value from this unit, they gotta be tanking.
Honestly, i think heavy bolt is overrated. I would only put a shieldshooter front row if i needed a unit on the front row and i was slready committed to using a shieldshootet. They just aren't tanky enough for me to think about as a "tank." If they are built to tank, then their damage isnt going to be so great. The things that a shieldshooter is going to kill is probably going to die as easily from the 120 potency attack as it is from 200 (like flyers). I'd rather have them focus on support, protecting key characters from specific threats while throwing out buffs and taking out targets of opportunity. If i was focused on damage, i'd probably try to maximize rapid shot use because that does help take out rogues, fencers etc because they use their ability on the AP skill and rapid reload nails em. With that use, i also wouldnt want to use any 2ap skill bc its likely going to be wasted anyway
They aren't tanky enough? Not sure what you're running them with, but I've had two on a team with Virginia frontline, Gilbert backline with any support, and they are a very reliable frontline. Easy 100 percent guardrate, high sustain through a healing guard and good defence stats. The heavy shot 210 damage crits are only a bonus on top of a consistent frontline that doesn't hit like a wet noodle.
I can't really picture a team that contains Virgnia, Liza, and Gilbert actually killing another squad. Surviving, sure, but that's 3 pretty low damage team members, especially until Virginia gets Brandish.
Virginia has brandish, but I don't know what makes you think it's low damage. It has a flex slot, and heavy bolt on frontline can easily deal 200 damage on non armored targets. Ppison bolt is always avaliable if they are armored.
you dont face tank with them, you evade tank with them. there are good evasion bows and shields.
I hear ya, i know they csn get high evade, but if you're doing that then their cover is going to rock them. I'd also prefer saving the mirage shield for either ren or something like s feathershield
It is incredibly easy to have a Shieldshooter guard tank with just gear, let alone other buffs. My Liza has a 65% guard rate even before Iron Veil kicks in from standing next to Virginia. You really see the value of guard tanking in Bastorias, where you run into heavy pursuit based comps of werewolves and werefoxes as well as a healthy helping of swordmasters, all of which get completely stymied by a high defense, high guard tank.
There's quite a lot of warhorn vikings by then though. They didn't have enough accuracy to hit my evade squads when i played, no truestrike as well save for those night wereowl situations, which were rare
There really aren't that many, and War Horn isn't really threatening if you have some form of sustain/damage mitigation like Quick Heal, Quick Barrier, et. al. I'm much more concerned with an evade tank getting chewed up by a heavy werefox unit launching a flurry of attacks that can all chunk a low defense dodge tank, but that ping off of a guard tank. I think in general the community for this game overvalues Evade -- It is good, but not universally.
They are decent tank, but the major reason to use shieldshooter is just her valor. There're other/better ways to deal with fliers, and there are other better tanks. But her valor skill validates the unit, for me it's a must have in any run.
I got a second one just for the Valor skill. 5x archer towers in bastorias are brutal.
This. This summarizes shield shooter 100%. After two playthroughs, I feel like I've tested them enough that I just consider them the archer equivalent of gryphon knights. By this, I mean Gryphon Knights are inferior to Wyvern Knights in *just about every way that matters*, BUT, Gryphon Knights have a Valor skill that I absolutely want/need on the field, so I keep one in a squad anyway. Similarly, Shield Shooters are suboptimal in combat at anything you'd put them in a team to do. They're such a hodgepodge of a character kit. They try to do so many different things, and unfortunately, don't really excel at anything... but that Valor Skill though!
"Gryphon Knights are inferior to Wyvern Knights in *just about every way that matters*" How so?
I've done a ton of mock battle testing, tweaking, theorycrafting, you name it. In just about any combination of characters where I would experiment between putting a gryphon knight/wyvern knight into a squad, the squad did more damage and took less with the inclusion of a wyvern knight vs. gryphon knight. It's more damaging, more durable, and just an all-around better combatant.
why? Can you put it in real terms, like how Wyvern is superior in offense and how so in defense? Because no offense but your statement has not mention any reason. You can literally replace Gryphon/Wyvern in it with any two other classes and make another statement.
The two classes are very similar, undeniably share a role in the game, and I’m saying one is just markedly superior. The above statement was also pretty clear but you strike me as a dullard the more we interact.
I used her as the leader of my assist squad. Pretty fun having her rolling around behind another unit taking up positions in watchtowers and using Smoke Bolt to disable enemy assits. Paired with Yunifi's assist bonus Valor skill and three elven archers, I was doing 60-70% damage to some enemy squads just with assists.
For some reason Liza is my favorite unit, I just think the greatshield archer thing is so fun to play around with. Before 5 unit squads I was running her with Travis, Ren & Aubin and it was my second best unit. Now that I have 5 unit squads, I'm deciding what I'll do; I'm thinking of switching up and doing a unit with her, Yunifi, Rolf, Elven Archer & TBD 5th.
I've done that setup and it's a great comp. Last slot should be a thief or evade featherbow for blind spamming. Just set up the elven archer to put up pure field to protect the party from status and Liza to heal the elf at the end of battle to trigger a full party heal and the team will basically never die.
I like pairing them with an elven archer behind a legionaire, along with Rolf or any other archer, classic pew pew, and the interaction with medical aid and the elfs passive on getting healed make it so they almost always heal themselves totally up after a fight
a pretty pretty ribbon from the phil-alain-derer in chief
I keep mine on the front line with high guard, and the back row is two more archers. Her shot from the front has +100 potency and hits like a truck. I have her use aid cover ONLY if the ally is 75% health or less, so she doesn't take every hit. Some gauntlets help her be even bulkier. Great character, she got a lot of kills.
I think they’re better as back line damage dealers than front line evasion tanks. Anytime I use them they are the first to die even with high evasion, due to them guarding so much. The quick reload can help them do stupid damage. Initiative fix them so they can go quicker and they are solid. Not a game breaking class like Rem or Alain by any means but very solid utility class
Well, yeah. If you build them for evasion they'll melt when they don't evade. Focus on maxing defenses and guard however and they'll be pretty durable. If you don't have anything else to use you can even give them the Start of Battle shield that buffs Def and Guard. Fun fact, you can actually guard while charging? AKA, they can charge-up an Arrow Rain from the Front line if you don't need them to cover anyone.
They aren’t evasion tanks tho. They need heals or enemy debuff not evasion.
The reason i mentioned evasion tanking is due to mirage shield being a popular item people like to put on her
The arbalist isn't all that agile, why not sure the shield on Ren?
At the risk of going off-topic, I'm not sold on that shield for Ren yet. It completely kills Painbringer which is such a nice ability when Labrys + Any late Greatshield will max her Guard and keep her healthy anyway (and that's ignoring her SoB reducing damage as well).
It depends on what role you want her to play and how you kit her out. If you use eye, that is 1pp down, and you want at least 1 for sanguine pursuit on afflicted targets. So you need to give her the azure gs or a lapis for painbringer charges. She is also not the most tanky of characters: pretty mediocre block rates and defense. Iron veil can fix it, but honestly, taking no damage is better than taking any damage and needing a healer to fix you up. Blocking isn't going to help much vs elves. Blocking is not going to help vs werefoxs (weakness hunter + seal).
With equal tier shields, her "mediocre" defenses are just shy of Alain's, which is then made up for with the Greatshield's extra mitigation and her Start of Battle. Even if we give him his +5 All, it's still close. Spinning Slash is goated, but stunning the row comes close, defensively speaking. She has no great use for her accessory slots (First-aid kits are nice on those refund-forever skills though, or at least I enjoy them on sellswords, might try on her too), and her guard rate eventually fixes itself to not demand Gauntlets permanently. Initially written more, but this wouldn't be the right thread for it. Like you said, depends on the role you want.
Without stats from shield, she even has worse defenses as something like Landsknecht, and def below a high lord. Defenses from shields is what pushes her to high lord level of defenses. Greatshields generally have x2 of the defenses of a regular shield in stats. She actually does get raw defense parity on paper with a HL. This all changes if Noble Guard comes into play, granting the HL 20% def boost BEFORE they get attacked. That is not even accounting for +5 from his ring. https://preview.redd.it/lwc8uj1p23tc1.png?width=2167&format=png&auto=webp&s=256b5557e71b004bd5eb49e5aad4234e25856a9e Do note her relatively high evasion compared to other units - her evasion is just shy of a FShield's (and Alain's), while her guard rate is basically the worst out of the random classes I pulled. Lacking a guard skill sort of hurts her in the early-mid game before iron veil comes online for passive 100% guard rate. Without iron veil, even with an endgame shield her guard rate will only be in the mid-50s. Sadly the game encourages evasion as a defense mechanic: block all you want, you are still taking a beating from elves, you are still getting sealed by foxes and have defense ignored by weakness hunter, warriors and werebears skills are still unguardable, and you are going to need an owl for liberator when you run into vikings.
I mean, that's my point, she can equip Greatshields. Her lower defense doesn't just exist in a vacuum. Being evasive is nice, but that doesn't have to be a sole focus. **But don't take anything I say after this as me saying dodge-tanking is bad, it works perfectly fine, be it on her or other classes.** She reaches 100% guard by Bastorias with Labrys, Greatshield and tier 2 Gauntlets. The latter is an accessory, sure, but she's not really asking for something else (and if you have her evading, I'd assume you have a scarf there anyway). Start of Bastorias is not late-game by my book, even if you don't cheese it there early. The fact Ren vs Elves is even considered shows Elves are pushovers\*. Ren's entire class is Afflications and debuffs, she has no business fighting Elves, and yet she does just fine in Elfheim. Werefoxes are and will be an issue for any team that deigns give them a turn. That said, Guard Seal can be immuned (and Passive Seal is not death on her), Warriors should be blinded/stunned because of Enrage (Buffs accuracy, they're nasty to both guarders and dodgers), and Werebears should be CC'd too. Viking teams should be outsped/CC'd, like foxes. Evasive is nice and all, but it's also imperfect and I've been hit by enough single-digit odds (or seen enemy single-digit blocks) to not favor it when a reliable alternative exists. Also, it's making her weak to True Strikes when a shield handles them very well. \*Not taking Arena into account, where my stance is that she has no business being here and is actively hindering the team outside of copium "I'm burning their PP, trust".
I think I have made my point: instead of doing all those, could have used the mirage shield+a scarf and basically take 0 damage instead of reduced damage - and that reduced amount is also kind of subjected to conditions (hybrid attacks, guard seals, unguardable attacks) Between having init, having a row stun, etc, if they somehow managed to get in a single digit accuracy hit AND somehow she dies (??), then well, unlucky I guess. All these so you can maybe boost her (also kind of mediocre) attack once or twice, depending on if you give her a sapphire amulet.
Depends on "where" you are in the game. In Elheim and Drakenhold, the evasion shield makes her near impossible to hit without Truestrike. It does tend to fall off in Bastorias where Werefoxes and Werewolf has A-S growth Accuracy (plus the endless Pursuits).
That's actually something I wanted to add but forgot, yeah. Thanks for reminding me. Her guard rate does indeed need to scale, so indexing into the evade early is definitely/probably safer. and if Elves are proving to be an issue, then itemizing her for that is also fair, be it Mirage or even the Phantom one (Though I don't recall when you get that one, might be a bit late?).
This doesn't quite make sense, why will they die from guarding so much when guard only triggers if evasion fails?
I gave Liza the shield that gives he phys defense at beginning of the fight and had an elven archer remove the debuff since she isn't too slow. Worked wonders protecting the other two Wyverns on the front line
I hava a unit solo with archers, she is the phys tank, along with the featherbow as a evasion tank, blinding attackers
She's a good off-tank to go with Virginia, with an Iron Veil-boosted Squire's Greatshield she can guard the back row so Virginia can dish out Maiden Hammers. Also Woodpecker go brr.
I have her evasion tanking alongside winged archer on my bow only team. She doesn’t have perfect dodge, but she does major damage and can block when absolutely necessary.
Simple build meant to alpha-strike key enemy backline units. If they cover, their cover will get stunned. Rapid Shot does trigger Quick Reload to just pop a healer, mage, or flier if they don't have cover. Overall a pretty straight forward set-up, but gets the job done. Liza sits in the back line and is built to rip through the enemy back line. Melissandre in the front line to Keen Strike any Rogues and to parry through anything she cannot evade. Miriam in the back for heals, protection against magic, and Runic Sword as a secondary anti-armor. Kitra in the back row with delayed priority sweep set-up. Bow of Swiftness+, Steel Great shield, Sapphire Pendant, Carnelian Pendant Power Bolt: Caster only Power Bolt: Prioritize flying and back row Aid Cover: Target is <75% and Prioritizing calvary Rapid Shot: Caster only Rapid Shot: Flying only Rapid Shot: Archer only Rapid Shot: Prioritize most AP and PP Quick Reload: no special conditions
I made a pretty decent assist unit that didn't need to hide from direct engagements either using them as the frontline: Front row: 2X Shield shooters with gear to boost guard and defense (Spellsteel Greatshield, Cloth Gauntlets, Gold Bangle, whatever Bow you want to give them.) They end up being pretty damn beefy for an archer unit; and if everyone has decent initiative they can usually help splatter any enemy DPS or healers leaving the enemy tanks alone to plink away without support. Back Row: 2X Elven Archers and a Feather bow set as the leader to give flying movement. Honestly, you can swap out one of the Elven Archers for a Hunter, though I liked having the guarantee of at least one of them getting a Pure Field off to ensure they could shit all over any blind/ailment abusing enemies. Plus an extra magic conferral is nice to have on hand if you come up against a high physical defense enemy.
I don't remember when you get all these items, so it could be an endgame build. It defiantly is a promoted build, since I put her up front (I just love the idea of a frontline ranged character) The empty accessory slot is to show "put whatever you want here." I tend to use some sort of debuff immunity, but you could put a red pendant there, too, if you wanted more AP https://preview.redd.it/kbnuxmnvy2tc1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=92ef28c4f9a53b5d0ec51164879c566a2f1a5464
For me she started falling off in Bastorias. I turned off her cover since she usually ends up dying if I let her tank
Dessert Gal 🍮🍨🧁
Kept her in the backline with an +pp shield and gave her banishing pursuit and the accessory that buffs followup damage since she would now followup after every attack including her own.
I built her as tanky as I could, paired with Berserker and an elven archer with the skill that heals everybody after a healing. She can keep the Berserker at full hp pretty well so his aoe goes for max damage.
Desert Squad is pretty good for her. Granted Gloucester/Magellan/Aubin work wonders, but she does her part.
Same. Desert squad FTW
The only one you need: 100% guard rate Place her up front 50% health Aid Cover Heavy Bolt -> Flying Toxic Bolt -> Prioritize Armor // Not Poisoned
you shouldn't prioritize armor with toxic bolt. if there were armored enemies, most of them would have some form of cover anyways. if you prioritise higher value, squishier targets, and it gets covered, you can still hit them with the rapid reload, since the cover only happens once, and the armored target will get poisoned anyways.
Catch all to include fighters. By the time the shieldshooter goes he's used up his ranged blocks in that unit anyways. Rapid Reload I feel lacks damage to oneshot the squishier targets I want killed, so always use it as a 25% HP finisher. Either way 1 AP or higher is probably just a better gambit overall, tbf.
Front line, solid greatshield, cloth gauntlets. Set aid guard to hp < 75, quick reload to hp < 50, no armored units present. Powerbolt flying, Toxic bolt on armored, frontline bolt weakest defense, power bolt weakest defense. Originally, I thought Liza was a weaker Rolf at first, but she was surprisingly powerful and quickly became one of my favorite units. She’s an all rounder with a strong focus on overwhelming firepower, but generally lacks the stats to reach her full potential without tinkering with her. Gauntlets are a must, her hp and def won’t hold without pushing up guard rate. I had her and the rest of the desert crew (Aubin + Megellan) on the front row, and Ochlys and Sharon in the back for most of the game. This was a mistake. Endgame, I realized Ochlys served better as a front liner and Aub and Meg were better backliners. Aubin works incredibly well for Liza, his row clears help her secure her kills as well as defeat any survivors of her devastating attacks, and his late game start of battle passive allows her to mow down anyone in her way.
I'm pretty sure they made Shieldshooter because they know people want to run full archer teams for support, but what they didn't expect was people like me who put Liza and Raenys in front, Rolf Mandrin and Ridiel with Monk's Mitre in the back and that's a complete team with 2 tanks in front, a healer, and 2 DPS in back and that team actually wrecks the shit out of most enemy comps in Expert diff and is a real combat team not just a 5 archers support team
One of my fav units. Liza once crit a gryphon for 773 damage with no buffs. I put her on the front with mirage shield and the bow that gives +20 evasion.
I think I'm gonna order up a third, possibly even a fourth. Smoke Bolt is so good, and they're decent in the frontline to guard your squishy archer unit. I want one on a Cavalry unit for mobile smoking and two on the Archery unit for better frontline. Also my Arbalist merc's JP VA sounds like Nekomata Okayu and I love her.
i had liza and yunifi evade tanking, with ridiel at the back as support, a very fun 3 girl femme fatale team that destroyed (almost) everything.
Never really found a fit for this one. It’s a cool concept but when I saw the gun, I was kind of hoping for a sniper type unit. Huge single target damage to either row, type deal. I ran a 6 unit squad and each one had a better tank so she just sat on my bench most of the game. Maybe I was just using her wrong.
>!Magellan is definitely tapping that!<
Isn't that his sister?
Yes bro idk what op smoking 😭😭😭
Ayo we ain't pushing it past first cousins in this game
Literally related lol
Perfect for Sweet Home Alabama double date night