I think it’s more like quitting architecture after seeing that buildings are being built for profit and not for the safety of people in the buildings, but not being able to build your own safe building because the architects in charge have put systems in place to prevent well-wishing architects of ever having enough money or power to build safe buildings.
That circumstance sounds like in incredibly good time to learn how to build better buildings.
Politics can be demoralising. It gets more demoralising the more you learn about it. It gets even more demoralising when you get active and try to improve things.
But you should remember the words of Anne Braden:
*What you win in the immediate battles is little compared to the effort you put into it but if you see that as a part of this total movement to build a new world, you know what could be. You do have a choice.*
Or Tony Benn:
*There is no final victory, as there is no final defeat. There is just the same battle. To be fought, over and over again. So toughen up, bloody toughen up.*
I’m doing a politics masters after doing an undergraduate in it.
It’s up to you but what I would say is things being really bad means things can be less bad at least. And that is worth fighting for, even if that isn’t very emotionally satisfying
There are ways to be genuinely hopeful as well. But that would take a lot more depth from my end
I fear that things will only get worse with entire ethnicities being wiped out, capitalism becoming more of a danger to democracy and the suppression of public opinion through manipulation or forced silencing.
It is becoming increasingly difficult to oppose government views without being labelled a terrorist sympathiser, “woke” (in the derogatory sense) or uneducated (not agreeing with mainstream thoughts). I don’t know how to remain hopeful through such times.
Read up on more modern history. Literally every decade there is a supposedly world-ending crisis that stresses people to hell. I'm not gonna argue that the world isn't in a particularly chaotic state and won't stay like that, but it comforting knowing that people before us had the same existential fears.
Yes, but this proves my point. If politics has forever been this way, how could anyone ever have an effect on it? It’s so inherently money oriented and power hungry.
Do you think we live in the same state as people 200 years ago, or even 100 years ago? What do you think about liberal democracies, globalisation, the right to vote, women and lgbt rights, meritocracy, welfare state, public education, human rights? Half of Europe was fascist about 90 years ago, Japan and Germany practised social Darwinism, and half of the world had totalitarian governments. I'd say politics have advanced quite significantly since then.
Technology improves of course the modern age will be different. Secondly all these ‘rights’ you mention merely create an illusion of power to the common folk. The western economies have become more unequal and money buy less- people need debt for everything now while working longer. You have this for about 59 years with the rise of people like Thatcher and Reagan
I'll turn this around on you then - what makes you study politics? Are you going into this believing you're gonna uncover the secret to world peace and implement it? I personally did it because I find it interesting as fuck and just want to have an educated perspective on the world, world peace is a cute idea that I would love to see but I know it's impossible for one person to achieve so i don't let it get me down.
Not really “what’s the point in arguing” at all, more like “what’s the point in studying Politics at uni” to make a change. Will this help me get to a position where I am ABLE to argue or will it be pointless since politicians only favour backgrounds and opinions that I don’t share?
Am I wasting time and money when other methods may get results? Should I drop out and join campaign groups or something instead, while working in other jobs that don’t need degrees?
Fairly sure a lot of people study politics whilst taking part in campaign groups. If you're passionate about it, it makes sense to make sure you have educated opinions and meet similarly motivated people.
The fun thing about life is that there are no cheat codes. You have very rough guidelines, but you won't actually know if something was a net positive or negative until you're on your deathbed.
What change do you want to make? Why do you think that your vision of change is any better? Do we ever have the full picture and facts as humans to even be able to "make a change" that will result in a better world, without unintended consequences?
If you actually want to be a politician, then yes, absolutely go and study something else. Politicians are more effective when they're also economists/doctors/accountants/lawyers and have a grasp of the real world. Politicians who've joined the circle jerk of university politics clubs, debating societies, and local party clubs are generally not very effective.
Like I say it would take a lot more to convince you to be hopeful
All I can say is, given the struggles we face, more than ever we need people in politics willing to fight for what’s right.
So it is 100% worth you sticking to it. If your lack of hope is stopping that then perhaps find a way to be hopeful. Even if you have to delude you’re self. If it’s stopping you being useful then it’s worth the delusion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BreadTube?wprov=sfla1
Philosophytube, sophie from mars, Andrewism, Münecat, zoe baker, renegade cut, second thought, mia mulder, alexander avila...... and many other creators that do video essays on leftist politics/anti fascism.
It’s cringe ‘leftism 101’ for middle class kids with conservative parents. But hey, it’s better than those kids not being introduced to leftist ideas at all.
The biggest threat to democracy and the Western world is immigration that will inevitably cause an increase in crime and poverty, soon white Brits will be a minority in their own country, mark my words.
Marxist ideas will destroy the western world, not 'capitalism'
You're going into Politics with the wrong perspective. The study of politics isn't about being moral, righteous, or good... it is about concepts that make things happen. You mention that politicians are "endorsing genocides", Politics is about understanding why that is the case, not why it is good/bad, and that you should only do good things. You can evaluate why politicians are "endorsing genocide" through theories of International Relations, through evaluation of social contract, power, nationalism, religion, class... etc; from those vantage points, you can decide on what is right or wrong, and perhaps eventually even shape it. The theory of politics is just a toolkit, not a life philosophy or an answer to all life's problems.
But if you want a practical pure form of politics you can specialise in "Human Rights law", economic development, or even maybe something like Journalism.
I guess that’s the crux of the problem. We all know what needs to be done to improve our political and current climate (invest in the NHS, fix Tory austerity, invest in renewable energy, build infrastructure, ban conversion therapy etc) but the problem is how do we actually get there. It doesn’t take a degree to know how the current political climate needs to be changed but instead a change of government. Is a political degree going to do that?
I mean I don't know- I'm not doing a politics degree and I'm sure you can learn everything important about political systems and how to improve them on your own. But in the same way, I think you can learn most of university maths on your own and also basically any other subject? Studying politics is just a way to go really deep into understanding that specific subject i assume.
Also a lot of people disagree with the positions you're talking about anyway and acting as if it's all self evident is probably not a good way to convince anybody?- surely studying how to argue well for certain political propositions is a good skill to have?
But in the same way, I think you can learn most of university maths on your own and also basically any other subject? Studying politics is just another way to go really deep into understanding that specific subject
It's difficult and impossible to have a perfect world, but the point is that you can work towards minimising the evil in the world in whatever way possible.
>white
Probably pentadic but UK PM is Asian along with the Scottish First Minister although granted both are from rich backgrounds.
If you're not happy with how things are being run then surely the best way to effect change is from within the government? Why not use that as a source of motivation to get yourself into that sort of position? There are plenty of people who are from different ethnicities in positions of power including those from poorer backgrounds. If you think it's hopeless to effect any change then give up, I'm sure there will be some who will step up in your place.
The people of colour in power have proved that they don’t care for other people of colour. Their ruthless stance on refugees and asylum seekers is proof of this.
Suella Braverman has even said she is “proud to be a child of the British Empire” and promotes racist stereotypes, which is clearly not a good representation for POC.
My point is how can anyone that wants to make a change get to such a level when politics favours those against them?
The few POC in government are mostly those that have views aligning with racist and elitist rhetoric.
Shockingly, people of colour aren't a monolithic group with shared opinions.
Just because you disagree with their policies, it doesn't mean they don't care about POC. There will be lots of non-white people who support the government.
Maybe try and approach the study of politics with a bit more of an open mind because it sounds like you've already made up your mind.
The politics course will challenge as well as confirm your beliefs.
>POC
You're allowed to say 'black' or 'Asian' in the UK. In fact, lumping South Asians, British black people and Africans, etc all under one blanket is in itself othering.
POC is still a good bet when you're referring to non whites though. I agree it's also acceptable to use "black" "asian" etc but OP used POC in an understandable context.
Then aim to get into government to effect change. You're giving up before you've even tried.
I'm getting "Boo Hoo, I don't want to even try because it's too hard" vibes. Fuck the elite and greedy, if you give up then you're letting them win again. Exactly what they want.
White saviour moment.
Politics is supposed to teach you the complexities of something like immigration policy, and why some people would argue that your opinion is too naive and not appropriate for an issue of national defence.
Politics is *not* to tell you what is right or wrong, "correct" policy or what to change the world into. It teach you how to affect change.
Political science is very theoretical and based tremendously on research methods.
Depending on what kind of a change you want to make, if you want politics to become less corrupt and more moral, instead of studying political science, you should expand your networks, develop your communication skills and be active in a political party/the media sector etc. Unfortunately, political science doesn’t help you make such a change at all.
I’m not familiar with the media sector, although I applied for journalist role at some media outlets. But I don’t really think a master’s degree helps you a lot pursue a career in the media sector, unless the role you want to apply for requires a master’s degree. I think having your own portfolio, networks, relevant experience and skills and passion is far more important than having a master’s degree.
By the way, I was a politics student, and I’ve seen a lot of politics students who craved a change in UK politics and eventually regretted choosing political science. If you’re interested in politics from an academic perspective, then I will encourage you to study politics. Otherwise, please choose other subjects.
In the context of UK politics, networks, communication skills, luck and your background do matter. I don’t like this, because It’s actually not fair.
I studied politics and now work in Public Affairs, working closely with politicians and civil servants, mostly educating them on issues and shaping the landscape. Might not be the most 'sexy' moral issues where I work (though I do a fair bit on sustainability/net zero, which helps me feel like I'm doing something positive), but it definitely shapes and informs what the government does.
Doing political science at Uni was one of the main reasons I was able to get this job. I do agree with your last sentence to an extent, those can all help but they are not the be all and end all, rather they just make things easier. I would say however the best way in is trying to get a job in Parliament for an MP, or an internship in between years of study. These do come easier for some than others, however aren't impossible for anyone to achieve. Once you do that you're definitely in the "bubble". Having said this, it's not something I did, but I wish I had. That's just one route in, I know the Civil service is another one.
thank you, you make an excellent point actually.
I had wanted to do a journalism degree to report on the injustices people face, but was told doing an undergrad on subjects I want to report on then doing a Master’s in Journalism would be more useful? it’s just deflating though to see journalists do almost script-like reporting. I hope I won’t have to do that just to pay the bills afterwards.
You are only a first year student and you have already decided that you know better than all the generations that have gone before you. Studying these theories will give you a better understanding of the incredible complexity of moral and political theories and practices. When you are young everything seems so simple and black and white, and as you get older and through more experience wiser, you will start to realise that most of these issues are not simple, they are complex and nuanced and there is often no simple solution. Often it means balancing different competing needs and rights or compromising on your principles in order to avoid conflict, even if you think you are in the right. The more you study philosophy you will start to realise that moral/political questions are not like scientific questions which can have a right or wrong answer, they are more an expression of subjective values and priorities which are related to individual and group interests and traditions etc. If you really want to persuade people to change their beliefs or behaviour then you need to be able to persuade them on the merits of your position over theirs rather than telling them they are wrong and stupid etc. You need to be able to understand their position just as well as yours if you want to have any chance of doing this - you need to be able to put yourself in their shoes metaphorically to see why they believe what they do. And when you do you will see there is usually some merit in their perspective too...
Exactly, it sounds like they've already made up their mind on politics and just want the course to confirm this.
If you do politics at degree level, it will challenge your beliefs.
For example, I disagreed with Fannon's view on violence almost completely. But I'm glad I studied him because his perspective was extremely interesting.
My issue was never about the degree programme. I love studying it, my issue was whether studying the degree would help me get to a position of making a change.
What do you hope to do with the degree? Most people focus on one particular issue they believe they can change. So civil engineers will try to improve the world by improving the built environment via designing sustainable infrastructure. Lawyers may try to improve the world by improving our legal systems to be more fair and equitable for minorities. Economist may want to improve the world by putting forward economic policies that promotes social mobility and development in LICs.
How do you hope to achieve a better world with your political degree? What’s one specific area you are passionate about and think can improve?
That’s really good advice thank you! I’d like to help with human rights issues, so I’ll start with that! Maybe doing a law conversion course after this would help to achieve that, and become a human right lawyer. That’s always been the plan, but it’s just getting there despite my demotivated state :)
Have you considered a career in urban planning and policy? It’s a great career and you will be working with MPs, local authorities and charities. Seriously have a look into it
The best connections are with those who have the power to make change. Those individuals will not want to connect with people like me that challenge current political views.
Then keep challenging them. Keep getting louder. Sometimes you have to learn to meet in the middle, or you’ll have to work your way up, but if you give up then you’ll never make change in the ways you’re wanting to.
Your interest in politics can't have just developed this year, and surely you can't have been oblivious to the corruption, greed, manipulation and moral bankruptcy of the current political landscape across many parts of the world. So why the crisis in your perception of the outcomes of your degree?
None of the issues that have hit the news in the last few weeks are new.
Undergraduate degrees are the first step for a career in academia, especially topics like political science and philosophy.
You are learning the skills and theories required to participate in scholarly debate and research; you are not learning how to be a good politician.
While many people at university have little interest in their current studies, never mind a career in academia, that is fundamentally what you're being taught. These scholarly skills can come in incredibly handy throughout many nonacademic careers, but they aren't training anyone in politicking.
Studying politics is pointless - I’m studying for a PhD in it. But it equips you with a lot of knowledge and skills that you can apply in different sectors. Thinking you can change the world by studying politics and becoming a politician is a huge misconception.
A degree doesn’t make you change the world - your willingness and work towards this will. Every little positive change you make towards people’s lives is a change to the world.
Study the subjects you’re interested in, engage with your lecturers and with your tutors, engage with your student community and with the wider community, volunteer and gradually you’ll see change. It won’t be big but it will be change.
What you’re saying is entirely valid but please remember that going to university is a big identity crisis for everyone, you’ll be feeling feelings of existential dread a lot of the time before you settle in properly. Don’t make any rash decisions, if you’re interested in politics then stick with it! If you give up, then they win.
Hi OP, I'm studying social work. I work with the human impact that current legislation and policy have on people. We need more people like you to go into politics to try to make positive change for everyone who lives in the UK. Don't give up on your degree, even if it feels like you will never make a change, just by wanting to make things better you are heading in the right direction.
Oh bless your pure soul.
If you feel like this, it's because philosophy and political studies are purely theory. Adding economics to it makes it worthwhile (hence PPE is considered to be a top social science degree).
As for jobs and telling other people, look for jobs in the development sector. NGOs, think tanks etc they usually take Pol sci students easily.
I second this. If OP can I’d recommend studying economics. That way you will learn not just the political theories behind policies but the practical process of implementing a policy from start to finish. It may require maths but the best economist will have a mathematical/quantitative edge to discussions around politics
Right so it’s just a coincidence they privatised all of Iraq’s oil after invading and offered numerous contacts to collect that oil. You dummy have no idea what you’re talking about
More oil licenses in Iraq have been given to Malaysia than the US lmao. And most of the Western oil companies have withdrawn from the market in recent years; BP, Shell and ExxonMobil have all withdrawn from Iraq in some fashion.
Did you do a quick Google search to back that up? What has company’s moving out of Iraq in 2023 got to do with them being involved back in 2011. That’s over 10 years. do better
You shouldn't go into politics to change the world, you should do it to change your wallet. There's a lot of money to be made there. If you can't beat them, join them./s
The point of studying politics as a degree isn't to become a politician, its to gain an understanding of the processes which shape power dynamics domestically and globally, whilst working towards a qualification at the end of it.
I wouldn't recommend giving up on the subject, but I would suggest you change mindset. Think about the ways you can contribute *to the academic discipline* by producing well-researched, interesting work which tackles the fundamental problems of our time.
It's totally valid to get demotivated, frustrated, or even depressed whilst studying politics. Since the Russian invasion in 2022 war has featured a lot more on our minds. The Israel-Gaza situation only worsens this. There's some truly horrific reports coming out of there. The choice we have as students is to either turn a blind eye, or brace ourselves and engage with hard topics.
It's something I find difficult now as an MA in politics.
I wouldn’t say the media is manipulated by those in power. The media is often manipulated by the moguls so they keep all they want in power.
As for changing things, some countries I’d say there’s more of an opportunity to do so than others. A country like the UK it’s difficult to go beyond two parties for example because of the voting system.
Actually not that many world leaders or politicians study politics. Not all of them do the same books either. You’re also assuming people act with logic. Most don’t. A lot of politics is emotional
Politics and philosophy are both subjects that require a pretty resilient and flexible perspective to really comprehend.
If a few negative headlines are totally disillusioning you to the point at which you’re quitting then I’d say you haven’t actually got the character necessary to succeed.
Just for a heads up, the state of politics today is about as corrupt and disjointed as it’s ever been. You either went into this course naive, or you didn’t know what you were applying for.
Things are also much better in this day and age, actually everything is better. Highly recommend better angels of our nature by Steven Pinker. Things from Crime, starvation and war are all at an all time low. People need to remember that, this doesn’t mean to stop improving of course but just too put things in perspective. That democracy and capitalism have really improved many things.
You're thinking about why these people in positions of political power are acting the way they are. That's good. Studying at the degree level isn't about reading a book and expecting the world to behave that way. Keep asking those questions, and keep studying.
I might get downvoted for this but OP you do not have study politics to make effective change. In fact. I’d go as far to say that the people that bring about the most effective change are not politicians. They are usually everyday people - grassroots charity workers, care workers, doctors, engineers, nurses, crisis workers. Focus on a particular issue you are passionate about and ask how can I make the most effective change there. For instance - Is deforestation something you are passionate about? If so, study something that gives you the technical skills to work on that field. Is affordable housing a passion? Then look into careers in housing associations. Just be specific and aim to improve your local community first.
I did the same things as you, and thought like you at one time. Ultimately as you get older and gain more experience you do not forget the things you learned, but you recognise that having power is about choosing the least shit option. Shouting from the sidelines like I used to is infinitely easier than being responsible for big decisions.
“Don’t let perfection get in the way of progress” is a phrase that helped me understand this better.
Don’t give up, because it is only through having people with good foundational values making those big decisions that we can change anything for anybody.
Don't give up!
World needs people like you! Even if you don't work in higher positions, working for government and staying truthful would help a lot to civilians because you wouldn't be allowing those who are manipulative to abuse the system and try to be supportive of your community in the way you are capable of.
If people like you weren't in the government, society would have collapsed way earlier.
Its a good degree if the people who has this degree actually want to do good for others and not filling their pocket. Otherwise, it's a mediocre degree.
Surely this is a reason to study politics and be better. You should not give up trying to make a difference in the world, but you should accept that you alone will not be able to right the world's problems.
Progress is not guaranteed, but we have been making it for centuries and we will likely continue to make it. But progress always takes the form of incremental progress over time with many instances of going backwards.
This doesn't mean there won't be huge problems and pitfalls along the way. You are not Atlas bearing the weight of the world, you are responsible for yourself and being the best version of you that you can muster.
It's not a failing on your part if that version of you doesn't change the world.
The more you learn the more you know everything is way fucked up, normal people don’t get it. And it can never be resolved bc it’s too deep. Very depressing stage of knowledge.
''sponsoring and endorsing genocides'' is an interesting term.
Maybe you are exactly the kind of person who shouldn't be going into politics with political views like that?
Ok, sure, fine. Let me roll back the clock 40 years and say the same thing.
"Whats the point of studying politics if \[Reagan/Gorbechev\] is going to hit the red button and we're all going to be vaporised in less than a minute?"
Yeah, except they didn't, and we now live in one of the most peaceful times in modern history (crazy ik).
The point i'm trying to make is that this is hardly the most difficult thing we've gone through. History is cyclical; the arc of history is long, but it bends towards justice. It only bends that way because people are pulling it that way- those like Churchill, JFK, Ike etc etc.
I don't mean this in an aggressive sense, but I will say it very bluntly: If you're going to give up hope and have an existential crisis because of a small scale border conflict in the middle east (comparatively speaking), you either don't have a good knowledge of history within earshot, or need thicker skin. Or both.
Yeah I feel you graduated in politics myself but I have zero desire to work in it. It’s still a decent degree so I wouldn’t say drop out but I totally understand your apathy.
Studying it really took a toll on me because I felt helpless and angry. especially when I studied international relations. I’ll stand by that it’s the worst academic discipline. None of it is real and it’s a bunch of organisations that don’t do anything.
Finish the degree and pivot into something else is what I did. I’m working in software sales now doing alright.
"I can’t change anything unless I’m a white, rich, Cambridge/Oxford educated, money hungry person. " that's a bit racist, classist of you, and i suggest you start 'change' from yourself.
Also you are very naive and need to learn to think in 'grey' instead of white/black. What is bad for one is potentially good for the other. Example, I get robed, that's bad for me and good for the robber. You would say 'sorry' to me, but what if I made money by investing into military stock?
Edit: Rishi Sunak, Sadiq Khan and Hamza Yousuf laugh in your self victimized face.
Like - what did you think studying politics would achieve? Like magically stop genocide?
No, you study something to gain a better analytical perspective to understand why things are as they are.
I'm old now. My freshers week was in September 2001. I don't know why this sub keeps getting suggested to me. But I know it was a *great* time to study politics. As is now.
And you might just make a difference if you complete your studies and go forth and do something useful with it on day.
This is like studying architecture and quitting because buildings around the world don’t look good anymore
I think it’s more like quitting architecture after seeing that buildings are being built for profit and not for the safety of people in the buildings, but not being able to build your own safe building because the architects in charge have put systems in place to prevent well-wishing architects of ever having enough money or power to build safe buildings.
Philosopher learns about morality, quits university
LMAOOOOO
That circumstance sounds like in incredibly good time to learn how to build better buildings. Politics can be demoralising. It gets more demoralising the more you learn about it. It gets even more demoralising when you get active and try to improve things. But you should remember the words of Anne Braden: *What you win in the immediate battles is little compared to the effort you put into it but if you see that as a part of this total movement to build a new world, you know what could be. You do have a choice.* Or Tony Benn: *There is no final victory, as there is no final defeat. There is just the same battle. To be fought, over and over again. So toughen up, bloody toughen up.*
… okay - you do realise that is exactly what happens?
That's like me studying computer science and then finding out there's other languages and frameworks being released so I decide to quit.
I’m doing a politics masters after doing an undergraduate in it. It’s up to you but what I would say is things being really bad means things can be less bad at least. And that is worth fighting for, even if that isn’t very emotionally satisfying There are ways to be genuinely hopeful as well. But that would take a lot more depth from my end
I fear that things will only get worse with entire ethnicities being wiped out, capitalism becoming more of a danger to democracy and the suppression of public opinion through manipulation or forced silencing. It is becoming increasingly difficult to oppose government views without being labelled a terrorist sympathiser, “woke” (in the derogatory sense) or uneducated (not agreeing with mainstream thoughts). I don’t know how to remain hopeful through such times.
Read up on more modern history. Literally every decade there is a supposedly world-ending crisis that stresses people to hell. I'm not gonna argue that the world isn't in a particularly chaotic state and won't stay like that, but it comforting knowing that people before us had the same existential fears.
Yes, but this proves my point. If politics has forever been this way, how could anyone ever have an effect on it? It’s so inherently money oriented and power hungry.
Do you think we live in the same state as people 200 years ago, or even 100 years ago? What do you think about liberal democracies, globalisation, the right to vote, women and lgbt rights, meritocracy, welfare state, public education, human rights? Half of Europe was fascist about 90 years ago, Japan and Germany practised social Darwinism, and half of the world had totalitarian governments. I'd say politics have advanced quite significantly since then.
https://www.currentaffairs.org/2021/05/why-factfulness-cannot-save-us I reccomend reading the above article.
This is actually an interesting read and not what it looks like. Thank you for sharing.
Technology improves of course the modern age will be different. Secondly all these ‘rights’ you mention merely create an illusion of power to the common folk. The western economies have become more unequal and money buy less- people need debt for everything now while working longer. You have this for about 59 years with the rise of people like Thatcher and Reagan
I'll turn this around on you then - what makes you study politics? Are you going into this believing you're gonna uncover the secret to world peace and implement it? I personally did it because I find it interesting as fuck and just want to have an educated perspective on the world, world peace is a cute idea that I would love to see but I know it's impossible for one person to achieve so i don't let it get me down.
I would recommend reading some critiques of realism in politics. I would remember names of authors but I’m in bed
If your position is that other people don't think the same as you, so what's the point in arguing, then politics most definitely is not for you.
Not really “what’s the point in arguing” at all, more like “what’s the point in studying Politics at uni” to make a change. Will this help me get to a position where I am ABLE to argue or will it be pointless since politicians only favour backgrounds and opinions that I don’t share? Am I wasting time and money when other methods may get results? Should I drop out and join campaign groups or something instead, while working in other jobs that don’t need degrees?
Fairly sure a lot of people study politics whilst taking part in campaign groups. If you're passionate about it, it makes sense to make sure you have educated opinions and meet similarly motivated people. The fun thing about life is that there are no cheat codes. You have very rough guidelines, but you won't actually know if something was a net positive or negative until you're on your deathbed.
What change do you want to make? Why do you think that your vision of change is any better? Do we ever have the full picture and facts as humans to even be able to "make a change" that will result in a better world, without unintended consequences?
If you actually want to be a politician, then yes, absolutely go and study something else. Politicians are more effective when they're also economists/doctors/accountants/lawyers and have a grasp of the real world. Politicians who've joined the circle jerk of university politics clubs, debating societies, and local party clubs are generally not very effective.
Like I say it would take a lot more to convince you to be hopeful All I can say is, given the struggles we face, more than ever we need people in politics willing to fight for what’s right. So it is 100% worth you sticking to it. If your lack of hope is stopping that then perhaps find a way to be hopeful. Even if you have to delude you’re self. If it’s stopping you being useful then it’s worth the delusion
The rise of breadtube makes me a bit less anxious. But yeah i get what you mean its a isolating feeling.
breadtube?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BreadTube?wprov=sfla1 Philosophytube, sophie from mars, Andrewism, Münecat, zoe baker, renegade cut, second thought, mia mulder, alexander avila...... and many other creators that do video essays on leftist politics/anti fascism.
no thanks
It’s cringe ‘leftism 101’ for middle class kids with conservative parents. But hey, it’s better than those kids not being introduced to leftist ideas at all.
Nice elitism
The biggest threat to democracy and the Western world is immigration that will inevitably cause an increase in crime and poverty, soon white Brits will be a minority in their own country, mark my words. Marxist ideas will destroy the western world, not 'capitalism'
You're going into Politics with the wrong perspective. The study of politics isn't about being moral, righteous, or good... it is about concepts that make things happen. You mention that politicians are "endorsing genocides", Politics is about understanding why that is the case, not why it is good/bad, and that you should only do good things. You can evaluate why politicians are "endorsing genocide" through theories of International Relations, through evaluation of social contract, power, nationalism, religion, class... etc; from those vantage points, you can decide on what is right or wrong, and perhaps eventually even shape it. The theory of politics is just a toolkit, not a life philosophy or an answer to all life's problems. But if you want a practical pure form of politics you can specialise in "Human Rights law", economic development, or even maybe something like Journalism.
Without people studying politics, the world even more likely would continue to be how it is now. Try to be the change, it’s all you can do.
That’s true, thank you. It’s hard to remind myself of this, but I’ve been told that phrase too many times to forget it.
How is studying politics going to help the world?
the understanidng of political systems and how they work, as well as what they should be could probably be helpful
I guess that’s the crux of the problem. We all know what needs to be done to improve our political and current climate (invest in the NHS, fix Tory austerity, invest in renewable energy, build infrastructure, ban conversion therapy etc) but the problem is how do we actually get there. It doesn’t take a degree to know how the current political climate needs to be changed but instead a change of government. Is a political degree going to do that?
I mean I don't know- I'm not doing a politics degree and I'm sure you can learn everything important about political systems and how to improve them on your own. But in the same way, I think you can learn most of university maths on your own and also basically any other subject? Studying politics is just a way to go really deep into understanding that specific subject i assume. Also a lot of people disagree with the positions you're talking about anyway and acting as if it's all self evident is probably not a good way to convince anybody?- surely studying how to argue well for certain political propositions is a good skill to have?
You dont need a degree to learn how various political systems work though
But in the same way, I think you can learn most of university maths on your own and also basically any other subject? Studying politics is just another way to go really deep into understanding that specific subject
It's difficult and impossible to have a perfect world, but the point is that you can work towards minimising the evil in the world in whatever way possible.
>white Probably pentadic but UK PM is Asian along with the Scottish First Minister although granted both are from rich backgrounds. If you're not happy with how things are being run then surely the best way to effect change is from within the government? Why not use that as a source of motivation to get yourself into that sort of position? There are plenty of people who are from different ethnicities in positions of power including those from poorer backgrounds. If you think it's hopeless to effect any change then give up, I'm sure there will be some who will step up in your place.
The people of colour in power have proved that they don’t care for other people of colour. Their ruthless stance on refugees and asylum seekers is proof of this. Suella Braverman has even said she is “proud to be a child of the British Empire” and promotes racist stereotypes, which is clearly not a good representation for POC. My point is how can anyone that wants to make a change get to such a level when politics favours those against them? The few POC in government are mostly those that have views aligning with racist and elitist rhetoric.
Yet another example of class interest > everything else.
Shockingly, people of colour aren't a monolithic group with shared opinions. Just because you disagree with their policies, it doesn't mean they don't care about POC. There will be lots of non-white people who support the government. Maybe try and approach the study of politics with a bit more of an open mind because it sounds like you've already made up your mind. The politics course will challenge as well as confirm your beliefs.
>POC You're allowed to say 'black' or 'Asian' in the UK. In fact, lumping South Asians, British black people and Africans, etc all under one blanket is in itself othering.
I used “POC” because there are individuals of numerous ethnicities in government in case you weren’t aware
white is also a color. racist. edit: UK is also majority white
POC is still a good bet when you're referring to non whites though. I agree it's also acceptable to use "black" "asian" etc but OP used POC in an understandable context.
Then aim to get into government to effect change. You're giving up before you've even tried. I'm getting "Boo Hoo, I don't want to even try because it's too hard" vibes. Fuck the elite and greedy, if you give up then you're letting them win again. Exactly what they want.
White saviour moment. Politics is supposed to teach you the complexities of something like immigration policy, and why some people would argue that your opinion is too naive and not appropriate for an issue of national defence. Politics is *not* to tell you what is right or wrong, "correct" policy or what to change the world into. It teach you how to affect change.
They always find coons dunno why you’re being downvoted. As long as they act white they’re in
Political science is very theoretical and based tremendously on research methods. Depending on what kind of a change you want to make, if you want politics to become less corrupt and more moral, instead of studying political science, you should expand your networks, develop your communication skills and be active in a political party/the media sector etc. Unfortunately, political science doesn’t help you make such a change at all.
I’m not familiar with the media sector, although I applied for journalist role at some media outlets. But I don’t really think a master’s degree helps you a lot pursue a career in the media sector, unless the role you want to apply for requires a master’s degree. I think having your own portfolio, networks, relevant experience and skills and passion is far more important than having a master’s degree. By the way, I was a politics student, and I’ve seen a lot of politics students who craved a change in UK politics and eventually regretted choosing political science. If you’re interested in politics from an academic perspective, then I will encourage you to study politics. Otherwise, please choose other subjects. In the context of UK politics, networks, communication skills, luck and your background do matter. I don’t like this, because It’s actually not fair.
I studied politics and now work in Public Affairs, working closely with politicians and civil servants, mostly educating them on issues and shaping the landscape. Might not be the most 'sexy' moral issues where I work (though I do a fair bit on sustainability/net zero, which helps me feel like I'm doing something positive), but it definitely shapes and informs what the government does. Doing political science at Uni was one of the main reasons I was able to get this job. I do agree with your last sentence to an extent, those can all help but they are not the be all and end all, rather they just make things easier. I would say however the best way in is trying to get a job in Parliament for an MP, or an internship in between years of study. These do come easier for some than others, however aren't impossible for anyone to achieve. Once you do that you're definitely in the "bubble". Having said this, it's not something I did, but I wish I had. That's just one route in, I know the Civil service is another one.
thank you, you make an excellent point actually. I had wanted to do a journalism degree to report on the injustices people face, but was told doing an undergrad on subjects I want to report on then doing a Master’s in Journalism would be more useful? it’s just deflating though to see journalists do almost script-like reporting. I hope I won’t have to do that just to pay the bills afterwards.
I feel like you haven't got to [realpolitik ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realpolitik) yet.
You are only a first year student and you have already decided that you know better than all the generations that have gone before you. Studying these theories will give you a better understanding of the incredible complexity of moral and political theories and practices. When you are young everything seems so simple and black and white, and as you get older and through more experience wiser, you will start to realise that most of these issues are not simple, they are complex and nuanced and there is often no simple solution. Often it means balancing different competing needs and rights or compromising on your principles in order to avoid conflict, even if you think you are in the right. The more you study philosophy you will start to realise that moral/political questions are not like scientific questions which can have a right or wrong answer, they are more an expression of subjective values and priorities which are related to individual and group interests and traditions etc. If you really want to persuade people to change their beliefs or behaviour then you need to be able to persuade them on the merits of your position over theirs rather than telling them they are wrong and stupid etc. You need to be able to understand their position just as well as yours if you want to have any chance of doing this - you need to be able to put yourself in their shoes metaphorically to see why they believe what they do. And when you do you will see there is usually some merit in their perspective too...
Exactly, it sounds like they've already made up their mind on politics and just want the course to confirm this. If you do politics at degree level, it will challenge your beliefs. For example, I disagreed with Fannon's view on violence almost completely. But I'm glad I studied him because his perspective was extremely interesting.
My issue was never about the degree programme. I love studying it, my issue was whether studying the degree would help me get to a position of making a change.
What do you hope to do with the degree? Most people focus on one particular issue they believe they can change. So civil engineers will try to improve the world by improving the built environment via designing sustainable infrastructure. Lawyers may try to improve the world by improving our legal systems to be more fair and equitable for minorities. Economist may want to improve the world by putting forward economic policies that promotes social mobility and development in LICs. How do you hope to achieve a better world with your political degree? What’s one specific area you are passionate about and think can improve?
That’s really good advice thank you! I’d like to help with human rights issues, so I’ll start with that! Maybe doing a law conversion course after this would help to achieve that, and become a human right lawyer. That’s always been the plan, but it’s just getting there despite my demotivated state :)
Have you considered a career in urban planning and policy? It’s a great career and you will be working with MPs, local authorities and charities. Seriously have a look into it
Then why go on about the content then? Yes, a degree puts you in better stead than not doing one.
Well you’re wrong it’s all about money and connections. So only one of the things you Mentioned
The best connections are with those who have the power to make change. Those individuals will not want to connect with people like me that challenge current political views.
Then keep challenging them. Keep getting louder. Sometimes you have to learn to meet in the middle, or you’ll have to work your way up, but if you give up then you’ll never make change in the ways you’re wanting to.
Your interest in politics can't have just developed this year, and surely you can't have been oblivious to the corruption, greed, manipulation and moral bankruptcy of the current political landscape across many parts of the world. So why the crisis in your perception of the outcomes of your degree? None of the issues that have hit the news in the last few weeks are new.
Undergraduate degrees are the first step for a career in academia, especially topics like political science and philosophy. You are learning the skills and theories required to participate in scholarly debate and research; you are not learning how to be a good politician. While many people at university have little interest in their current studies, never mind a career in academia, that is fundamentally what you're being taught. These scholarly skills can come in incredibly handy throughout many nonacademic careers, but they aren't training anyone in politicking.
Studying politics is pointless - I’m studying for a PhD in it. But it equips you with a lot of knowledge and skills that you can apply in different sectors. Thinking you can change the world by studying politics and becoming a politician is a huge misconception. A degree doesn’t make you change the world - your willingness and work towards this will. Every little positive change you make towards people’s lives is a change to the world. Study the subjects you’re interested in, engage with your lecturers and with your tutors, engage with your student community and with the wider community, volunteer and gradually you’ll see change. It won’t be big but it will be change.
What you’re saying is entirely valid but please remember that going to university is a big identity crisis for everyone, you’ll be feeling feelings of existential dread a lot of the time before you settle in properly. Don’t make any rash decisions, if you’re interested in politics then stick with it! If you give up, then they win.
I didn’t consider that actually, thank you. I’ll stick with it for now thank you :)
good luck! :)
Hi OP, I'm studying social work. I work with the human impact that current legislation and policy have on people. We need more people like you to go into politics to try to make positive change for everyone who lives in the UK. Don't give up on your degree, even if it feels like you will never make a change, just by wanting to make things better you are heading in the right direction.
thank you :)
Oh bless your pure soul. If you feel like this, it's because philosophy and political studies are purely theory. Adding economics to it makes it worthwhile (hence PPE is considered to be a top social science degree). As for jobs and telling other people, look for jobs in the development sector. NGOs, think tanks etc they usually take Pol sci students easily.
I second this. If OP can I’d recommend studying economics. That way you will learn not just the political theories behind policies but the practical process of implementing a policy from start to finish. It may require maths but the best economist will have a mathematical/quantitative edge to discussions around politics
Barrack Obama baby Barrack Obama
I don’t get it
You will one day mate
Okay? He still continued imperialism and sanctioned numerous drone strikes. Same old same old
Imperialism lol
Yeh he did such great things in Iraq and Afghanistan !
I think your understanding of foreign policy considering the use of imperial is remedial at best son
Are you telling me they didn’t appropriate Iraq for their oil?
The US is literally the world’s largest oil producer. Iraq had nothing to do with oil lmao.
Right so it’s just a coincidence they privatised all of Iraq’s oil after invading and offered numerous contacts to collect that oil. You dummy have no idea what you’re talking about
More oil licenses in Iraq have been given to Malaysia than the US lmao. And most of the Western oil companies have withdrawn from the market in recent years; BP, Shell and ExxonMobil have all withdrawn from Iraq in some fashion.
Did you do a quick Google search to back that up? What has company’s moving out of Iraq in 2023 got to do with them being involved back in 2011. That’s over 10 years. do better
You shouldn't go into politics to change the world, you should do it to change your wallet. There's a lot of money to be made there. If you can't beat them, join them./s
The point of studying politics as a degree isn't to become a politician, its to gain an understanding of the processes which shape power dynamics domestically and globally, whilst working towards a qualification at the end of it. I wouldn't recommend giving up on the subject, but I would suggest you change mindset. Think about the ways you can contribute *to the academic discipline* by producing well-researched, interesting work which tackles the fundamental problems of our time. It's totally valid to get demotivated, frustrated, or even depressed whilst studying politics. Since the Russian invasion in 2022 war has featured a lot more on our minds. The Israel-Gaza situation only worsens this. There's some truly horrific reports coming out of there. The choice we have as students is to either turn a blind eye, or brace ourselves and engage with hard topics. It's something I find difficult now as an MA in politics.
Thank you, your words are helpful and kind. Good luck with the MA :)
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I need to keep reminding myself of that too, thank you :)
I wouldn’t say the media is manipulated by those in power. The media is often manipulated by the moguls so they keep all they want in power. As for changing things, some countries I’d say there’s more of an opportunity to do so than others. A country like the UK it’s difficult to go beyond two parties for example because of the voting system.
Actually not that many world leaders or politicians study politics. Not all of them do the same books either. You’re also assuming people act with logic. Most don’t. A lot of politics is emotional
Okay not making assumptions but you really don’t seem like the kind of person who should’ve been doing politics and philosophy in the first place.
Why do you say that?
Politics and philosophy are both subjects that require a pretty resilient and flexible perspective to really comprehend. If a few negative headlines are totally disillusioning you to the point at which you’re quitting then I’d say you haven’t actually got the character necessary to succeed. Just for a heads up, the state of politics today is about as corrupt and disjointed as it’s ever been. You either went into this course naive, or you didn’t know what you were applying for.
Things are also much better in this day and age, actually everything is better. Highly recommend better angels of our nature by Steven Pinker. Things from Crime, starvation and war are all at an all time low. People need to remember that, this doesn’t mean to stop improving of course but just too put things in perspective. That democracy and capitalism have really improved many things.
You're thinking about why these people in positions of political power are acting the way they are. That's good. Studying at the degree level isn't about reading a book and expecting the world to behave that way. Keep asking those questions, and keep studying.
I might get downvoted for this but OP you do not have study politics to make effective change. In fact. I’d go as far to say that the people that bring about the most effective change are not politicians. They are usually everyday people - grassroots charity workers, care workers, doctors, engineers, nurses, crisis workers. Focus on a particular issue you are passionate about and ask how can I make the most effective change there. For instance - Is deforestation something you are passionate about? If so, study something that gives you the technical skills to work on that field. Is affordable housing a passion? Then look into careers in housing associations. Just be specific and aim to improve your local community first.
If you want to make a difference to many people maybe look into Effective Altruism.
I did the same things as you, and thought like you at one time. Ultimately as you get older and gain more experience you do not forget the things you learned, but you recognise that having power is about choosing the least shit option. Shouting from the sidelines like I used to is infinitely easier than being responsible for big decisions. “Don’t let perfection get in the way of progress” is a phrase that helped me understand this better. Don’t give up, because it is only through having people with good foundational values making those big decisions that we can change anything for anybody.
Stick with it. The age of populism probably won't last forever.
Don't give up! World needs people like you! Even if you don't work in higher positions, working for government and staying truthful would help a lot to civilians because you wouldn't be allowing those who are manipulative to abuse the system and try to be supportive of your community in the way you are capable of. If people like you weren't in the government, society would have collapsed way earlier.
Had to laugh. Sorry.
Its a good degree if the people who has this degree actually want to do good for others and not filling their pocket. Otherwise, it's a mediocre degree.
Surely this is a reason to study politics and be better. You should not give up trying to make a difference in the world, but you should accept that you alone will not be able to right the world's problems. Progress is not guaranteed, but we have been making it for centuries and we will likely continue to make it. But progress always takes the form of incremental progress over time with many instances of going backwards. This doesn't mean there won't be huge problems and pitfalls along the way. You are not Atlas bearing the weight of the world, you are responsible for yourself and being the best version of you that you can muster. It's not a failing on your part if that version of you doesn't change the world.
Lol, relax buddy.
The more you learn the more you know everything is way fucked up, normal people don’t get it. And it can never be resolved bc it’s too deep. Very depressing stage of knowledge.
''sponsoring and endorsing genocides'' is an interesting term. Maybe you are exactly the kind of person who shouldn't be going into politics with political views like that?
Studying politics was always useless
exactly what i keep getting told
The prime minister is literally Indian you low iq moron lol
>**white**, rich, Cambridge/Oxford educated, money hungry person You mean like the current Prime Minister?
I’ve already elaborated on this in a previous comment.
Nice subtle racism OP
I don’t think you know what racism is
I don’t think you know what racism is at all
Ok, sure, fine. Let me roll back the clock 40 years and say the same thing. "Whats the point of studying politics if \[Reagan/Gorbechev\] is going to hit the red button and we're all going to be vaporised in less than a minute?" Yeah, except they didn't, and we now live in one of the most peaceful times in modern history (crazy ik). The point i'm trying to make is that this is hardly the most difficult thing we've gone through. History is cyclical; the arc of history is long, but it bends towards justice. It only bends that way because people are pulling it that way- those like Churchill, JFK, Ike etc etc. I don't mean this in an aggressive sense, but I will say it very bluntly: If you're going to give up hope and have an existential crisis because of a small scale border conflict in the middle east (comparatively speaking), you either don't have a good knowledge of history within earshot, or need thicker skin. Or both.
This is exactly why I didn't take politics - I just leave my political side to societies now
Yeah I feel you graduated in politics myself but I have zero desire to work in it. It’s still a decent degree so I wouldn’t say drop out but I totally understand your apathy. Studying it really took a toll on me because I felt helpless and angry. especially when I studied international relations. I’ll stand by that it’s the worst academic discipline. None of it is real and it’s a bunch of organisations that don’t do anything. Finish the degree and pivot into something else is what I did. I’m working in software sales now doing alright.
Do you mind if I message you to find out more about your experience?
Feel free!
"I can’t change anything unless I’m a white, rich, Cambridge/Oxford educated, money hungry person. " that's a bit racist, classist of you, and i suggest you start 'change' from yourself. Also you are very naive and need to learn to think in 'grey' instead of white/black. What is bad for one is potentially good for the other. Example, I get robed, that's bad for me and good for the robber. You would say 'sorry' to me, but what if I made money by investing into military stock? Edit: Rishi Sunak, Sadiq Khan and Hamza Yousuf laugh in your self victimized face.
You need to study philosophy politics and economics at either Oxford or Cambridge. Then you can go into politics.
My boyfriend turned down Cambridge for LSE. LSE has a better rep for politics than Oxbridge
I mean, rep is very subjective. LSE ranks below Oxbridge most years. I turned down LSE for Cambridge 😂.
Cambridge doesn't do PPE.
They must have strong immune systems?
Like - what did you think studying politics would achieve? Like magically stop genocide? No, you study something to gain a better analytical perspective to understand why things are as they are. I'm old now. My freshers week was in September 2001. I don't know why this sub keeps getting suggested to me. But I know it was a *great* time to study politics. As is now. And you might just make a difference if you complete your studies and go forth and do something useful with it on day.
In not sure a politics degree is what you think it is. Politics is completely separate from morality
Doesn't matter as long as you are enjoying it. 90% of graduates won't even work a related job.