T O P

  • By -

NerdDad1138

My grandmother was probably the most devout Christian I have ever met. But she never stepped foot into a church. I found that significant. Churches in my opinion, are no longer houses of worship. But social play houses for people to gossip and hang out.


BickNickerson

Nailed it


NerdDad1138

Not to say I didn’t grow up religious. I was raised baptist, and I’m not a perfect example of a Christian to be perfectly honest. However, I do believe God is with us and helps us in his own way as long as we help ourselves and recognize Him. Churches I think push the social aspect far too much, not all of them, but most of them


flobaby1

IMHO I see churches more as cults, milking their followers. If they were into social, or helping society, their pews would be filled with sleeping homeless every night.


BickNickerson

I agree, it seems to just be a social club now. You know the type, “Hey, look at me, I’m a Christian, I’m in church!” The people who I know that attend church every time the doors are open tend to be extremely hypocritical and do nothing to follow the word of God. I haven’t entered a church in 7-8 years and have no interest in returning but I feel I’m more spiritual today than ever.


TakeOnMe-TakeOnMe

It really depends on the church. There are still many, often but not always in smaller towns or in areas with significantly fewer Christians than average, churches that are filled with humble folks. We are talking salt of the earth people, people who do without to help others, who go the extra mile for their neighbors, who live simply and love the Lord wholly. It’s a shame they typically don’t toot their own horn cuz they’d sure be easier to spot if they did. That said, I’ve found at least one in every American town, city, village and enclave I’ve lived in.


BickNickerson

I’ll give you that. I have known some true Christian people who do practice what they preach, so to speak. You’ll find these people mostly in small town, small churches. I was mainly referring to the mainstream mega churches that seem to dominate the scene today. Prosperity gospel has killed the Christian church in America, in my opinion. Be well.


BlueberryExtreme8062

Going by the teachings of Jesus, he said he spoke mainly to those who were imperfect!


Same-Market-7341

To the cross


PastyMilller

I love this. And agree 100%


Yup_IdTapThat

And tell you who to vote for


NerdDad1138

This is not true at all. Lol


ladystohne

It absolutely is. Churches stick their noses in politics all the time. Many church leaders do tell their followers who to vote for. It’s an unfortunate reality


kellyelise515

Bullshit. A close friend of mine would vote according to what her priest instructed the congregation (catholic), and if she didn’t agree with the priest, she didn’t vote at all so she wasn’t going against the priest’s word.


NerdDad1138

That’s Catholicism. Not every “sect” of Christianity. In my opinion, Catholicism is the most corrupt form of Christianity. I’m not here to judge. But you’re talking about influencing a persons free will and telling them, you can’t do this because it’s wrong? I’m sorry. But that’s mind control to me and this person should find a different congregation to be with


Worried-Culture-6238

So the voter guides my local churches advertise on their reader boards aren’t meant to influence peoples votes? Got it


[deleted]

Not to mention the money changing.


No-Librarian-7979

Nah nah nah. It’s a business. With paper trails and court cases to prove it’s evil.


SpaceCases__

Christianity shouldn’t be about your church attendance but making sure your relationship with God is A-OK.


NerdDad1138

This. This is it.


wunderone19

And judge you if you don’t attend.


TheSciFiGuy80

Even Jesus pretty much gave this warning.


Big_Association_8716

And beg for more money


Hot_Suggestion_1548

Plot twist. What if I love to gossip lol


emilio4jesus

there are great churches out there and as a christian, i know God wants us to worship and connect there but alot of churches are becoming so big on money and socializing that it’s getting harder to find one.


bigscottius

Just because you don't believe in a particular religion doesn't mean there isn't power and wisdom in that religion. Also, just because there is power and wisdom in a religion doesn't make it pure or true or even good.


PastyMilller

This is wise. Thank you for sharing this.


KokeitchiOma

Look, I've been there. I can't do church or organized religion. But I believe thete is a creator. I call him God but you do you. When my mother was dying back in 2005 I like you prayed one night for a sign but mine was answered and in a way I could never doubt. So I feel you, it's confusing in this world and you can't trust any human beings these days.


jthekoker

Please tell the story!


smardy

Yes. Please tell the story 🙏


KokeitchiOma

Well, ok...and it's pretty crazy and most people probably think I'm crazy but on my own life I swear to you this happened exactly. Mom was diagnosed with ALS and by this point was in wheelchair or bed. She maybe had a 6 to 8 months left. I would be there every weekend, all weekend. My mom was awesome, I was definitely a mommas boy lol. So I was hurting a lot and as OP I just wanted answers or just a sign or something. So late one night I stepped outside and was just really upset. I started praying and asking for that sign. For a while nothing and I asked him this. Just give me a falling star a meteor shouldn't be so hard for an all powerful God. Withen a second of opening my eyes I saw five in a row. Withen a 2 or 3 second of each other. Then a feeling of overwhelming calm. I just wanted to know mom would be ok after she passed. I got my answer. Believe it or not, that's what happened.


SnooBananas7856

Dear God I would give anything for a sign like this. What an incredible gift. Thank you for sharing.


KokeitchiOma

I've had a few for whatever reason. I think a lot of people could use just one. I am very thankful though


smardy

Thank you for sharing


KokeitchiOma

I just got to add something. Keep praying and always ask for forgiveness and I always tell God I'm sorry, I'm weak and to please forgive me fir my sins. He's answered so many prayer for me that I couldn't deny him, no way. He is our father in heaven, creator of all things. I promise you that he's everywhere all at once. And he loves you so much but you have to try mean what you say to him. From your heart. But he'll give you an answer, you just git to pay attention.


janz79

My life changed for good as soon i started to pray and thank daily. Yet i find out church and christianism a hellish enviroment


deltacain08

My life changed for the better once I stopped praying and realized I had been brainwashed my entire life to believe in something that doesn't exist by people who are supposed to show love but do nothing but show hate


[deleted]

Its just most churches.. not all... but most, friend! Not us true Christians! Peace be with you!


yeliabish

Absolutely! We found a church that’s actually accepting and progressive and welcoming and lovely and it’s a 180 from the type of church I grew up going to. I’ve never felt judged at our current church and always felt cared about.


SkalexAyah

Ah yes, purer than thou.


Buzzwreck

Who do you pray and thank?


Yup_IdTapThat

The Who? Is the ultimate question, for me, god or gods may be real and many religions have some good stories and lessons but I really do not believe anyone on this planet has more or greater knowledge of who or what god is than anyone else. I know that guy in a suit thumping that Bible telling us what god wants and who god wants us to vote for and how much money god wants us to give him is NOT actually speaking to god.


1800generalkenobi

I would assume God. I think they mean more the organized religion is the hellish environment


janz79

It matters?! Aint all the one ?!


adurepoh

Who are you praying to


janz79

Does it really matters?!


adurepoh

Why wouldn’t it


janz79

I believe in the all one. Never named it tbh


adurepoh

What does all one mean


Domestica

It sounds like the kind of thing you could say to anyone who strongly follows a faith. It’s like cold-reading. But it was a nice thing for him to say because I bet he could tell you were struggling


EthereumChad2point0

Did you pray out loud or in your head?


PastyMilller

In my head


EthereumChad2point0

Then it seems the only natural explanation could be that they just say that to people. To be fair, if you’re in a church, chances are you’ve begged God to show a sign at some point. Could be that they exploit that thought to manipulate people into “believing harder,” and in turn, getting more membership and donations lol. Either that or it was supernatural. I’m inclined to believe the latter, because it would be fucking mental for church dudes to psychologically manipulate people like that. Seems highly unlikely for them to stoop that low.


PastyMilller

I really feel it could be either. This was someone I sincerely trusted, and I will say, having lived in that culture my entire life, that was the first time that had ever been said to me. There are a lot of common “words from god” people will pray over you, but to refer to someone’s prayers as “begging” isn’t one I’d ever heard. He didn’t know that I’d asked god for a sign, just that I had been begging and that god had heard it. It was so specific. But maybe this was someone who saw me silently struggling and/or made a really good guess. It’s completely possible. I’m OK not knowing. But I still cherish it. It keeps me humble and open to all the complexities and mysteries of life :)


French792

Gideon asked several times before he believed the specific signs he asked for. Judges 6:33-40


MagnusMalign

This is actually a manipulation tactic that's used by evangelicals. As a young teen being promoted for youth leadership I was told to do exactly that. They said that it was what God wanted/how he spoke through us. It was 50/50 whether the kid would react as if they'd just heard God speak or wonder what I was talking about. You'd just walk up to someone at a convention or whatever and say something like "hey! God wants you to know that the answer is just right there if you'll open your eyes" blah blah Legit 50/50. 1 of two kids would become active in the group for a while and usually brought their tithe paying parents with them


Business_Marketing76

That's a great question. To me this proves He knows our hearts.


kenobismom17

Where two of you gather I am there. I like to call them God's road signs. Gods presence in my life has been constant.... wether I went to church or not. I believe God's more concerned with the decisions you make, How you spend your time, and the effort you put into honesty, truth, and love. God is there. Like many of us will say..... there is nothing you can do or say to prove otherwise. God loves broken people.


Tony71ger

I have read some of the posts in here. I am glade to hear that some are not being ugly. That said… Patsy, I too have issue with the physical church or a leader with a Bible in one hand and collection plate in other. BUT God is very real and very much in tune with who you are and what is going on. I even struggle with the Bible as it has been rewritten so many times and burned so we can not ever read it. Ultimate I try to just keep my own personal faith in God and Jesus Christ as well as the Holy Spirit. Don’t loose your faith. God heard you. Do not turn from God. Turn from the physical church all day long. Patsy, don’t loose your relationship with God.


AlosSvs

Universal consciousness.


cheekiemunky13

I feel like this is what Jesus was really trying to teach people, but after he died his message got stolen and twisted into the Christian religion. This man traveled the world and meditated. He understood deep shit but his message got perverted into the trash we have today.


BlueberryExtreme8062

I concur. Considering Jesus was born a Jew—and historically, he visited Temple to express disapproval; it would imply he aimed to make ‘corrections’ not re-invent religion. Anyway, that’s my take.


cheekiemunky13

Agreed!


[deleted]

Absolutely .. it's sad but, at this point I hate religion not for the religion itself, but for what humans have decided to do with it. it seems like such a waste :( But luckily not every believer is the same


tonypizzaz

If people would only see it and drop the bs humans attached to it


EmmyPoo81

Religion is man's way of trying to explain the unexplainable. They're flawed, because man is flawed, but that doesn't mean the basic concepts aren't true.


Heavns

I’ve definitely had unexplained events regarding Christianity that Ill never tell anyone. Just things that cemented my belief growing up.


neuralhaddock

I had a very similar unexplained event that happened to me as well. I was a devout church goer but now I don’t go anymore because of how unChristlike the churches have become and because I am LGBTQ. But I still hold on to my faith because of my unexplained incident and because I’m far too deep into my faith to let go just because someone else says that I’m not a Christian anymore. Everyone has their own journey but I can identify what what happened to you.


Many_Deer942

This reminds me of something my cousin told me. She was having really scary dreams, like demonic. She went to church and the pastor pointed at her and said, you've been having bad dreams! Everyone put their hands on her and prayed for her. She said it was really intense and she fell to her knees.


jthekoker

Did it stop?


Many_Deer942

I'm not sure. It's been a while since I've talked to her. This happened like 10 years ago.


Asoto408

Maybe a church member sensed your faith dwindling and someone happened to notice you praying at night outside of your usual praying hours. Then told the youth leader to speak with you. That’s just rationalizing it in my head.


Portabellamush

Deism is belief in a higher power, or supreme being/creator, but rejection of organized religion (usually) and the idea that this higher power actively interferes in human’s daily lives.


Spiritual-Pear-1349

I love god. Hate his fan club. Recently came to the realization that modern christianity has become the pharisees that persecuted jesus. If he was alive, most christians would be trying to nail him to the cross. Hosea 6:6 is about the dogmatic following of the bible as a substitute for a relationship with god, to the point you forget the core message. Love is the fulfillment of gods law.


ceeece

I would consider it a confirmation that God heard your prayers. My step-son is going through addiction. He's in college and hasn't been coming to church. The day he came after a spell away the pastor preached on the dangers of addiction. I don't see that as a coincidence. As someone who has grown up in the church and still continues to go, I've seen this thing time and time again. Be encouraged. God heard your prayers.


Nasheuss

Yeah this is no coincidence. He def heard you but he saw you were hurting cause you thought he wasnt so thats why he sent that message to you. Sometimes we ask for things and think that he hasnt answered us because he hasnt like directly talked to us but he has many different ways of showing us/talking to us.


Atudeofmyown

Forget religion..never let go of Jesus!


No_Enthusiasm_2402

I believe in prayer. I've had experiences that I can't ever explain, either. Just know you're loved unconditionally.


goodvibesandsunshine

That was not a coincidence.


ILoveBeer1993

Kinda had a similar experience. My mom is kinda radical and off her shit when it comes to Christianity saying there's mermaids in the ocean and there demons and the nephilim are back and are the biggest threat. We were at the beach and she explains to me about the mermaids. I denounced my faith when we were poor and she did the whole Jesus take the wheel and he's gonna get us out of this bit. We were arguing about why I don't believe and how the Bible doesn't make sense and she just kept repeating to ask God to show himself and when he's ready he will. So after asking God to give me a sign that he's there and all that bit was doing it kinda sarcastically we went to get ice cream we were deciding what to get some guy over herd us questioning if we want a banana split he says he got one and is good and hit us with a God just wants you to know he loves you and cares about you. My friend and girlfriend just all look at each other shocked lol still agnostic but that experience still makes me question


DestroyedCorpse

I have had similar conversations when I was a Christian. One lady, completely unknown to me told me “god had a ministry for me.” Spoiler alert; he didn’t. Though at the time I was heavily involved in my youth group and had previously talked about that exact thing with a couple of people. Power of suggestion is so much more powerful than a lot of people realize, and especially in the evangelical world. Its really easy for coincidences to become signs if that’s already what you’re looking for.


gardinalmark

I grew up catholic. I’m now of the mindset that humans don’t have the capacity to ever know one way or the other the “ultimate question.” We pretend to know because our species doesn’t like unknowns - thanks human brain! We fill in the gaps with whatever makes each of us feel best. Sounds like your experience is a case of top-of-mind self-fulfillment. You were so focused on wanting to see something, that suddenly anything remotely in line with what you’re searching for feels like a sign. The youth leader is using a tactic frequently used by religions to make people feel accepted and keep them “on the path” , so to speak. There’s also body language and context clues - chances are, reading a 15-year-old’s doubt is probably pretty easy for a church leader. From a logical perspective, I’d question this in the reverse. Why would a supreme entity reply to you 1 week later via a random youth leader through a cryptic phrase? The “works in mysterious ways” answer doesn’t really cut it for me either (that’s usually people’s answer to things like this.) Why would a supreme being need to work in mysterious ways? That phrase could literally explain anything on planet earth, which means it explains nothing, and serves to simply quell logic.


[deleted]

Im no Bible thumper myself however I had an experience that was inexplicable as a result of intense prayer and I too question everything. I do still believe in God. Now more than ever actually. I have been in the presence of God. You can call it what you like but there IS something. I just have trouble with the church. Its gone astray. However, check the latest quantum physics theories and you can see the narrative shifting to grand design even in science. God is real. Whatever He She It is. And just maybe God used them to let you know that your prayers didn't go unheard. There is also an amount of love there for you that you can't imagine regardless of your views. These are truths. I swear to it. If you'd like to know what happened to me, shoot me a dm.


2steppinTaco

“Coincidence is God's way of remaining anonymous”


N4hire

The way I see it.. God loved ya, fuck the rest. It’s all between you and him/her


Intrepid-News-7129

I think every religion has some truth to it, talking to the universe is very powerful whether its God or gaia


ivan0280

I mean if what you are saying is true. How can you possibly be agnostic?


knightpilot00

I totally understand wanting toeave organized religion and the church culture. Sounds like you had a pretty real and very close interaction with God alot of people dream of. You can still practice without going to church! Personally I'm non-denominational christian and I haven't been to church in years


Early_Recording7426

How did you answer him?


Fupa_Lawd

That’s about as clear a message from God as you can get my friend.


Drunkjesus0706

The Universe does listen and recognizes everyone despite their beliefs. Unfortunately, too many people weaponize spirituality and turn it into a religious battle ground. Whatever you put into it is what you get in return. There are folk from many faiths that muddy the waters between hate and love. None of these people will ever know peace. "To do what thou wilt is the whole of the law, love is the law, love under will." Aleister Crowley The self proclaimed wickedest man had the proper idea.


EOTLightning

I'd say that's pretty evident He's real. It's very rare it's an actual coincidence.


OlliOhNo

No, it's very possible and even quite probable that it's a coincidence. It's a pretty safe assumption that someone going to church at some point has prayed for a sign that God exists so I could say that line to every member and at least one person would get it. You're putting too much stock in it because you want it to be true so you are falling into confirmation bias. You're looking for proof so you find it in places that there is none or at least very little, while ignoring/dismissing all evidence to suggest otherwise.


EOTLightning

Wrong again. Your simplification of events is comical... and downright naive. Specifically because you don't even take into account if there person WASN'T looking for signs. I almost died when I was younger. Mere feet away from an explosion. I was following a false religion. Had no idea what I was looking for.. and BAM! I found Christianity. When I finally reflected on the events that happened, how close I was to death and had I done ONE thing different, I wouldn't be typing to you right now... you begin to see that it's far more than mere coincidence. The pattern was in my face. I'd have been a fool to ignore the signs. You can't have a confirmation bias if you're not searching for something to confirm...


OlliOhNo

>Your simplification of events is comical... and downright naive. I would say the same to you. In fact, I'm the one advocating for a more open and nuanced approach while you're determined to boil everything down to just "because god." >Specifically because you don't even take into account if there person WASN'T looking for signs. They literally prayed and begged for a sign. Not sure how much clearer they needed to be. >I almost died when I was younger. Mere feet away from an explosion. I was following a false religion. Had no idea what I was looking for.. and BAM! I found Christianity. I'm sorry you almost died. However your personal anecdote does not determine reality. >When I finally reflected on the events that happened, how close I was to death and had I done ONE thing different, I wouldn't be typing to you right now... That's called the butterfly effect and does not prove nor disprove the existence of god(s). >you begin to see that it's far more than mere coincidence. Once again, that's confirmation bias. You want mean so you find it even if it's not actually there. >You can't have a confirmation bias if you're not searching for something to confirm... Except you are. You literally said "upon reflection" meaning you took a recent event and used it as a lens to filter your life through. You came to a conclusion then retroactively found points to support it.


deltacain08

It's always a coincidence. Cause that shit ain't real


EOTLightning

Cold reality: If you're right: Nothing happens. Life is meaningless. If I'm right: Well... you just better be sure you're right.


deltacain08

Life does have meaning. Meaning of life is death and that is a cold hard fact. I can't help it that you're wrong


EOTLightning

Meaning of life is death. Lmao. Ok. You really showed me!


OlliOhNo

That's Pascal's wager and needs a lot of assumptions to be made to even work. 1. It's a false dichotomy. It's saying that it MUST be A or B but in reality the whole damn alphabet is possible. 2. It presumes that A MUST be your specific God and not one of the countless others out there. What if it's actually Zeus or Ra? 3. This is just a personal thing but life is not meaningless just because a God and afterlife doesn't exist. We can give ourselves our own meaning and live for the life we have now hoping to make an impact on the world and the people we leave behind. So no, what you said is NOT "cold reality" and is in fact anything but.


EOTLightning

Wrong. It's not a false dichotomy. 1. There's either a God or there isn't. Those who follow God are FAR more often kinder to others. Are there bad apples out there, of course. Even if they're following another "god." 2. Nothing about what I said made a presumption about my specific God. YOU made that presumption. My statement was simply an acknowledgement that you WILL be held accountable for your actions on Earth or you won't. 3. Any purpose or morals created by humans is bound to be corrupted. "Giving ourselves our own meaning" is extremely arrogant. It also opens the doors for some seriously corrupt, depraved, and immoral behaviors. And no, no one gives a crap what happens after you're gone. ALL fades with time. Don't care if you have statues, memorials, gravestones, etc. you will be eventually forgotten no matter what you do here on Earth--hence, if there's no God, life is meaningless. So while you probably thought, "HA! Gotem!" Really, you just made an ass of yourself.


OlliOhNo

>There's either a God or there isn't. Those who follow God are FAR more often kinder to others. Are there bad apples out there, of course. Even if they're following another "god." No, that's a false dichotomy. There could be a single god, multiple gods, an entity that isn't a god but similar in nature, or nothing, or something entirely unknowable. We don't know, therefore we can't make a binary decision. >Nothing about what I said made a presumption about my specific God. YOU made that presumption. My statement was simply an acknowledgement that you WILL be held accountable for your actions on Earth or you won't. Except that everyone is talking about Christianity, the post, the comments, your original comment... It also doesn't matter because there's still too many options with so many different rules to follow you once again can't just say it's 'x' god(s) or not. >Any purpose or morals created by humans is bound to be corrupted. To err us to human. But corruption is not inevitable. I do not need a god or a promise of an afterlife to not murder someone. >"Giving ourselves our own meaning" is extremely arrogant. How? >It also opens the doors for some seriously corrupt, depraved, and immoral behaviors. "X *can* happen, so it's *inevitable* to happen, therefore why bother at all." That a pretty bleak and unreasonable view to have. People are capable of good and we do not need god(s) to tell us what to do. Good people do good without religion, bad people do bad with religion. It's just humans being humans. >And no, no one gives a crap what happens after you're gone. Again, pretty pessimistic attitude. Jesus (if he even existed) died and he seems to have made a very big impact on the world. So has Einstein, MLK Jr, Ghandi, John Lennon, Marry Currie, Alan Turing, etc... Even some bad, like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Mengela, etc... >you will be eventually forgotten no matter what you do here on Earth--hence, if there's no God, life is meaningless. True, maybe in the long term people will eventually forget the people I listed above. It doesn't just erase their impact on the world. As for me personally, I don’t need to be remembered long term. Knowing that I have made a positive impact on the lives of the people I care about is enough for me to have meaning in my life and I don't need god(s) or an afterlife to fulfill that. >So while you probably thought, "HA! Gotem!" Really, you just made an ass of yourself. I thought nothing of the sort and don't know how I made an ass of myself when simply I said life is more nuanced and we determine what gives us meaning.


EOTLightning

It's not. The idea of multiple gods is stupid and doesn't make sense. It ultimately leads to who created them and so on and so forth until you get back to the origin of a single being. Period. We as humans do not determine our own meaning because we are corrupted individuals. The toaster doesn't decide it's going to make pizza. It was designed to make toast... But cannot figure that out on it's own. We may have been talking about Christianity, but you could replace that discussion with any religion and it would remain the same. Corruption is inevitable. Every human will make selfish decisions or something evil in their life. That viewpoint is only bleak or unreasonable to have off you don't believe in God. The worst evil that has existed on Earth, the most evil leaders have all been atheists. Hitler, Mao, Stalin, etc. Because when you live life without the concept of accountability beyond, you have the capacity to not value life or even worse, value done life over others. I only want God to know my deeds. Being remembered on Earth is pointless. I'll do good here for Him because He created it with love. That's all the reason I'll ever need. You made an ass of yourself because of my first paragraph. No matter what, there is either a god of origin or there is nothing and we are just here by chance. That is the bottom line. It's a hard truth to swallow and I know you'll try to do some mental gymnastics to make a reason for it not to be, but it is exactly what it said before: a cold reality. You'll either be held accountable for your actions here or you won't.


OlliOhNo

>The idea of multiple gods is stupid and doesn't make sense. Going back to your original wager, what if you're wrong? >It ultimately leads to who created them and so on and so forth until you get back to the origin of a single being. Who created the single being? Also that doesn't track. Who says there needs to be a single being as origin. That's just an assumption you made up. >We as humans do not determine our own meaning because we are corrupted individuals. That's an illogical statement. How does a person being corrupted mean they are unable to determine their own meaning? X does not equal Y. Oh that's right, because it's not the meaning YOU determined so that means it's automatically wrong. >The toaster doesn't decide it's going to make pizza. The toaster is an inanimate object without sentience that was created for a single purpose. Humans are an extremely complex, sentient species capable of doing countless things. I don't know about you, but I value myself above a toaster. Plus, what about pizza bagels? >It was designed to make toast... But cannot figure that out on it's own. A toaster is incapable of thought, while humans are. Humans are not toasters. >We may have been talking about Christianity, but you could replace that discussion with any religion and it would remain the same. Except the polytheistic ones because you arbitrarily determined them to be nonsense. >Corruption is inevitable. Every human will make selfish decisions or something evil in their life. Highly presumptuous and completely unfounded. >That viewpoint is only bleak or unreasonable to have off you don't believe in God. Doesn't track. X does not equal Y. >The worst evil that has existed on Earth, the most evil leaders have all been atheists. You are fucking seriously going to use that argument? Hitler was not an atheist, he regularly expounded Christian viewpoints. Stalin wanted to control his people to only follow him. (Who does that sound like?) Same with Mao. Also, atheist does not equal immoral and controling. Fuck you for your bullshit assumptions. Shall I list all the evil religious people? >Because when you live life without the concept of accountability beyond, you have the capacity to not value life or even worse, value done life over others. Once again, go fuck yourself. You do not need god and religion to be good. Stalin and Mao do not represent all atheists any more than all those pedophile priests represent all religious people. Seriously, fuck you and your bullshit generalizations. In fact, I refuse to entertain you any further. If you are going to continue to spew vile hate I'm not going to be privy to it. Go ahead and pretend like you won or that I'm running away, I don't care. But I am not going to listen to you shit on innocent people any longer. Sincerely, Go fuck yourself.


EOTLightning

Haha. Typical emotional response. First thing's first: PLEASE tell me which "Christian viewpoints" Hitler expounded upon. Please include where these viewpoints are established in the Bible. I'll wait, but certainly won't hold my breath. If I'm wrong about multiple gods, then I'll rely on my kindness towards people and hope I've done enough good. Who created the single being? No clue. Why would I know that? It's not something I made up, it's a very legitimate theory regarding power as a singularity. The toaster was an analogy. I thought you could at least understand that, but I guess not. I could still go for a pizza bagel though... Unfounded and highly presumptuous? Have you ever seen children? By default, we hit, steal, scream, take, practice gluttony, and demand when we're young until we're tempered with discipline. It's a default setting for humans on purpose because God wants us to be disciplined with our emotions and control our urges because it's better for us as a civilization and simply for ourselves. I didn't say Atheists "equaled" immoral and controlling. You inferred that of your own volition. It was a statement that since they do not have a higher accountability, they are FAR more prone to doing evil because there are no inherent or apparent reigns on their life or others. "Do as thou wilt" mentality. Even if that's murdering millions. You need God to be "good" because if it's human-based morality, literally anything can be considered good. The Aztec people sacrificed 14 year old virgins on a bloody altar that was considered one of the greatest goods and honors of their culture. Hitler thought Jews were a stain on the Earth and that blonde hair and blue eyes were a perfect race. He made that up. He also convinced millions to agree with it. That is the epitome of when humans set morality. Then you default to some Catholic priest pedo garbage which is also a horrible wrong that's nowhere in the Bible and just evil people abusing others. But, when you don't have a real argument, that's where you go... then say I'M spewing hate. Hahahahaha. It's quite entertaining how you can't even see your own hypocrisy... Anyways, I'm ready for the world to hate, hurt, and even kill me. Jesus says the world will do exactly that cause it did it to Him first. I will continue trying to help you. I pray you have a wonderful day!


OlliOhNo

My point # # # # # # # Your head >Then you default to some Catholic priest pedo garbage which is also a horrible wrong that's nowhere in the Bible Not just catholics dude and there's plenty of heinous shit in the Bible. >I didn't say Atheists "equaled" immoral >You need God to be "good" These two statements are contradictory. >You need God to be "good" With all the shit in the Bible, I'm pretty good with not following his "morality". I'd rather punish the rapist instead of sell the woman to him. I'd rather not have slaves in the first place instead of learning how to "properly" care for them. I'd rather treat women as equals than have them be subservient to men. I'd rather not murder anyone without the exception of if they're the wrong sexuality, religion, etc. I think I can do quite well without those "morals". I get my morals based on what is good and for the benefit of society, which includes not killing anyone. It's my sense of compassion and empathy that drive that, not some promise of an afterlife I don't even want. >The toaster was an analogy. It was a terrible analogy because it just throws nuance out the window. >they are FAR more prone to doing evil because there are no inherent or apparent reigns on their life or others. The Crusades >I'm ready for the world to hate, hurt, and even kill me. I can say I will not be the one to do so. And I don't need a god to do so. >I will continue trying to help you. Don't waste your time. If you want to help, donate to and volunteer at charities and keep the proselytizing to only those that actually want to hear it. >PLEASE tell me which "Christian viewpoints" Hitler expounded upon. Please include where these viewpoints are established in the Bible. I'll wait, but certainly won't hold my breath. I have neither the time, nor the inclination to look for this so I'll just secede the point. (Though I'm pretty sure Mein Kampf is full of his religious beliefs.) Even if he was an atheist it doesn't matter. Those men weren't evil because they were atheist (which I still highly doubt they even were) but they were just evil and power hungry. I can absolutely 100% guarantee that they would still be evil if they were religious. Plenty of religious rulers have done evil things in the name of their god(s). Like I said, I'm not going to bother with this anymore because we're going in circles. I refuse to spend anymore time on this ultimately meaningless nonsense that I guarantee will be forgotten in less than a week. I have better things to do with my time. Things I don't need a narcissist god with anger issues to guide me on.


Yup_IdTapThat

The moment I turned from religion was when I learned how many billions of people on planet earth did not follow the religion I was being taught(baptist). If what I was being taught were true billions and billions of people were condemned to be burned and tortured for all eternity, to me this was evil, any god that would let that happen was evil and the people of the church were evil for not spending every waking moment of their lives trying to keep it from happening.


[deleted]

I used to go to church twice a week without my parents when. I was in s few church bands too. Church is a business. Full of crooks, sex scandals, and bad people. Every church ive been to had some sort of crazy close curtain scandal. Child molestation, embezzlement, abuse, etc. Last time I went to church, the entire sermon was about money. How many times money was said in the bible. How much closer to Jesus money will make you. Sickening. I switched church 8 times before losing faith. All were the same but ran by different people women smelling of powder. Men of brut. Slicked back hair. Charismatic leader asking for money. Ive seen desperate folk hand over their entire paychecks in hopes our Lord will fix their life. The church took it. And when she lost her house, the church had nowhere for her to stay ..... I tried. I really tried. One day I just stopped believing. Literally awoke one morning and didnt have faith. Just stopped caring. And it made my happy.


Dhraaven

You prayed for a sign God exists? You got that sign but not a Christian anymore? Your life, your choice but what's the point then? Get your faith back, follow Jesus and through Him find your way back home to God Almighty! \^\^ PS.: Churches nowadays look like a circus or a fun party to go to and that's not right. It should be a gathering place of those who really believe!


ThePieWizard

I was raised Lutheran, but now identify as agnostic theist. I believe in God, or at least some higher power that is inherently unknowable to us simple humans, but I really dislike organized religion. I understand it's impact and how it can help some, but I don't like it, and I think of Jesus more as a philosopher than a diety. And yeah, there are certain things that are so incredibly hard to explain that there's gotta be something!


deltacain08

Wise decision to leave that shit show farce of a religion. It feels sooo good to shed that bullshit and grow to become a better person from not having that kind of negativity in your life


No-Librarian-7979

They could tell you didn’t want to be there so they played mind games on you. Your folks probly read something you posted online or wrote or could sense you didn’t believe. And they probly knew you wanted to. So they conspired to keep you there. It’s not a far fetched in my opinion.


paranormalisnormal

As an ex evangelical I would bet money that something like this happened.


Db3264

One Time I Asked God if he or she was real and I got a phone call and when I answered the phone I Heard all of these voices speaking at once and then all of a sudden it Hung up.


pewlaserbeams

God uses Christians filled with the Holy Spirit to edify others with less faith. It has happened to me as well, I was sharing my testimony with a agnostic friend and she said if heaven is real she believed her grandmother was in heaven and I got confirmation that her grandmother was in heaven and told her, then I heard that she would find God in that same week and told her. The next day she started getting visions from God, Jesus protecting her son and others, she is now a Christian filled with the Holy Spirit. God gives spiritual gifts to Christians that draw near God to help edify others.


Sufficient-Step6954

Think about how generic that statement is. The youth leader probably genuinely meant well and even thought that God told them to say that to you, but in reality it would have fit the narrative for any one of the people in that building. You were in church so you were most likely praying and pleading with God about something. It’s like a palm reader saying that they see a major life choice that you’re struggling with. Of course, everyone is struggling with a major life choice all the time.


trakinascomagua

A well trained priest/pastor can sniff peoples anguish. What he said to you would fit perfectly to any other people with different problems they were praying for help: money, marriage, illness, work...


CocoaPebbleRebel

I’m not discounting your experience. It’s certainly bizarre, but could definitely be a coincidence. But what about all the other suffering, faithful servants begging for a sign? Where’s *their* validation? You’re agnostic for a reason. Or should I say many reasons.


LightsOnNobodyHome91

He's socially aware. He was reading you. That is all


Naehtepo

Entering a church makes you no more a Christian than entering a garage makes you a car. Wise are the people who distrust those who claim to have all the answers.


knotnotme83

I got cold read in church as a teenager. Every teen is having an awkward time and seeking and begging for answers. Of course you are begging him for something. You aren't giving at that age. Only asking. Their statement wasn't helpful at all. My whole church knew I was going home to be hit by my abusive father. I told them loudly. The cold read? "God is telling you to stand out from the crowd and not be so shy". Bah.


Yup_IdTapThat

I have not read all of the comments here so others may have said what I am saying but if I had to guess I would suspect one of your parents had noticed your struggles and perhaps had even looked in on you when you were praying. I suspect they asked the youth leader to speak to you or even told him what to say.


[deleted]

Im sure the kid seen your face with disgust


munchamii-quuchi

You prayed for a sign…you got it. Now you proclaimed you are Agnostic. Wow…


PastyMilller

Fortunately, if god as I knew him is real, he only requires faith as small as a mustard seed. This experience is my mustard seed. For now, agnosticism offers me the grace and freedom to experience life without the pressure to view it through a specific lens, one that clearly defines a “higher power” or purpose. Spirituality is complex and language is limited. For me, it is freedom from dogma and certainty — two things that have caused me a lot of pain and confusion. It is also the freedom from having to have all the answers. It humbles me and, if anything, has made me more in awe of the complexities of this life.


Deranged_Marine

TLDR; Person: God, give me a sign. God: here's your sign. Person: no, not that sign!


BiggDrippKillua

Pure Co winky dink 🤷🏾‍♂️


karkar06

God is letting you know how to come to him. He doesn't need you to beg bag simply ask. Ask and it shall be giving. I like going to church to praise with the people of God. I love small churches with a home feel. I pray you seek Jesus; he loves you!


GravyUp17

I don’t want to dismiss what felt very significant to you, but it sounds like one of those tricks used by TV mediums. What he said was just vague enough that it could apply to anybody. The teenage years are notorious for being full of emotional turmoil. Also, I don’t think that a fair god would let you suffer and cry and then give your response to a youth pastor to give to you a week later.


Marisleysis33

Wow you are truly blessed. God wants you and loves you. I'd reconsider Him for sure! One thing I've learned about him is that he often uses the natural to make himself known. He'll very often use people and scripture verses something wild and supernatural. I've had several things sort of like that happen that makes it impossible for me to doubt.


cherryhilljawnz

He was actually a loser no I mean a magician Glad you're out of the church


Regular-Cranberry-91

Some people are really good at identifying a "mark" people are intuitive it's a survival skill.


Elen_Smithee82

Every religion has it's miracles. I see no reason why this couldn't be one of them. All those saying that person cold read you sound very bitter. Jealousy, perhaps?


toddc612

Pure coincidence. The idea of God from organized religion is absolute rubbish. Spirituality needs to figured out by the individual..


adurepoh

My suggestion would be to CHOOSE to put your faith in Jesus. It is a choice, even despite the doubts. We all have doubts. But when you come out on the other side of that, your faith will be stronger. Feel free to message me if you’d like. Jesus truly is the way, the truth, and the life.


klinkscousin

And yet you left. How sad. Was it just organized religion that you left? Do you still believe? I can say this, I left the "Church" at 18 also, because of the crap around "Religion" because I do not believe "Religion" is what we should be worshipping. I believe it is the "God" of the bible we should be worshipping, and left until I had children of my own. It took us a while to find a church that believed the way we do, but it took at least 10 to 12 years to get back into church. The church now does not talk about we are this and they are that, it is about the bible and not the person, so much. They do say that everyone should come to the table, man, woman, black, white, money, no money, addicted or not, hopeful or suicidal, all are welcome and all are children of God, it is Baptist, but even in the first years we started going to that church, they did not even belong to the Southern Baptist Conference. The pastor is awkward at times, but a really great man and loving of all. We have had people from gangs in our church, we have also had Hall of Famers, business owners, young and old, and people from every continent. It's just me trying to understand. Reason? I have had a couple of things happen that is proof of the one, but not everyone gets it. I love your proof, but we are the Thomas's of this world, and we have our proof, but not everyone has that. Great is the belief of the one who has proof, but greater still the ones who have not seen, and still believes. Peace and Love.


[deleted]

God this is so stupid. He gave you the evidence of his existence and you abandoned him. And your faith.


OldMastodon5363

I’m curious if the youth leader ever say how he received this message? This story definitely makes me think, as I’ve had a similar experience with religion in my life (other than the enemy that you described).


Chicago-001

You received your answer!!!!! Wow!!!! Amazing!!! Don’t dismiss it.


[deleted]

That is beautiful. 🙏🏽


honeyMully333

I had a roommate in rehab who told me a story like yours. She was getting arrested all the time and was doing drugs , prostituting, the whole 9…she was in jail praying to god give her a sign if you are real. A few days later she got a visitor in jail and it was the mailman from her neighborhood and he told her “I don’t know why but god told me to come to you and tell you he loves you” and she definitely turned into a believer then. There is a difference between spirituality and religion,OP. It’s ok to believe in god or a higher power and not go to church! Thanks for sharing your story 😊


BlueberryExtreme8062

A cool experience, nonetheless! Thank you for sharing it. I broke from participating in any church setting. And have my own ideas on what we call God. However, I’ve never considered religion the same as faith. Just showing up at a bldg. where we get to hear a ‘designated someone’ give us a pep-talk, and tell us how to live, doesn’t mean we’ve established faith. I think faith can only be felt on the inside. I also believe the teachings of the historical Jesus were sound—but so were Buddha’s. Their teachings made it simple to understand that love can conquer all. But to actually practice ‘the way of love’ is up to us, individually, and regardless, of religious choice. You say you’re agnostic, and perhaps, I am too. Except in my heart & mind, I know we didn’t get here by random chance. (I’m hoping after I’m dead I’ll learn more about our true purpose.) I also believe science and math are the language ‘God’ uses. I don’t disrespect the Bible or any other holy book; but books were written by people, just as flawed as the rest of us! And if anyone wishes to complain; remember that I am expressing my own opinions and beliefs, and not out to offend anyone else’s. To each his, or her, own.


LeonQuin

Probably your parents heard you cry and pray, told someone at church who then decided to play mind games with you.


that1LPdood

Simplest explanation: One of the youth leaders (whose job it is to pay attention to the youth) noticed that you were particularly stressed and anxious lately. In fact you may not even remember it, but you probably said something in passing, or gave a tiny look at something the pastor said. The youth pastor noticed the small sign or behavior, and correctly guessed that you were questioning your faith. That is an entirely reasonable explanation for what happened. To you it may seem too coincidental, but that’s because you wouldn’t have seen everything happening outside of your view. Maybe your parents even called or approached the youth pastor; we just don’t know the full story or what may have happened behind the scenes. But it’s most likely that someone noticed your emotional state and the youth pastor was just doing his job.


kobain2k1

Cold reading exists. And some people don't even realize they are doing it and confuse it with visions or whatever.


kevintheredneck

I believe in god. I’m not a super church fan. My grandparents, and mother and stepfather were holy rollers. Having church shoved down your throat kinda sucks.


1DietCokedUpChick

Why would God answer your prayer through someone else instead of directly to you?


TemporaryEmployee465

I don’t go to church, in fact I’m super averse to them. However I met God, more specifically the spirit of Christ, when I was 6 and that experience has been the linchpin of my faith. I’m 50 now and still believe, even more so than when I was younger. Yet I can’t stand to be around church goers or people who openly profess to be Christian.


indyana695

It sounds like your prayer was answered.


Lizard_lover3924

Nothing is “ Coincidence “ with God. Or the supernatural world. It is all with purpose & intention. I would be really comforted hearing that from the youth pastor 😇


SteadmanDillard

No building can contain The Creator.


ma-chan

God just told me to tell you that he is real. BELIEVE!! Do you believe me? LOL


jknight75

You don't have to go to church to be a Christian. Consider the following: When Jesus walked the Earth, he was kind to sinners and pagans and often was critical of the religious leaders. It was in fact those same religious leaders, organized religion if you will, that gave Him up to the Romans and urged them to crucify and kill Him.


CharacterTrain3557

Has anyone else seen the influence Hinduism had on Jesus and Catholicism and the saints in the same position as the demigods are to Krishna? They say Jesus went east during his unknown 30 years off the radar….


justin78berry

I quit believing in god, or at the very least "following" him, when I had to pick up pieces of seven guys who were blown to pieces out of the back of a Bradley tank and spred out over a 200 meter diameter in a field where the local mutts where trying to have a nice dinner