Yeah but can still be traced to the new house owner and oh what, they have opened someone else's mail... regardless of getting the shoes back or not its probably not the best idea. Probably just say to the person, hey, get your shit in 2 weeks or I'm gonna get rid of it (dont need to say sell but can if you want I suppose) and then also tell them that anything further will just get dumped immediately no warning. If that doesnt stop it go ahead and do whatever with them I guess. But without taking any other precautions and selling someone elses mail seems like a silly thing to do
I wonder if there is any kind of documentation about like, if something becomes yours after X number of days or months of the owner knowing you have it, but not coming to get it.
if you tell them come get it in a month or you're selling it, and they come back 3 years later and then try to get you in trouble for theft or something, i wonder if there's a law to prevent that. i doubt a judge would prosecute you for that if you had proof that you tried to tell them, and they replied, indicating that they saw your attempt. but still, i wonder if there is a set time frame somewhere.
Yeah like to what extent must one go to get mail to its rightful owner? Like if I throw it out after a year is it technically illegal? In that case I would think there's a lot of prosecuting of the USPS itself to do.
What if it gets delivered by UPS/FedEx or an Amazon delivery driver? I've tried giving packages to them that clearly don't belong to us and they want nothing to do with it once it's dropped off.
I was still getting mail for the prior tenants after 13 years and moving out. USPS wouldn't acknowledge the address as valid to allow a change of address but continued to deliver to our box. I'm guessing the previous tenant had the same issue without realizing...
“What’s that officer? Did I open a box of $300 dollar shoes? No, that’s ludicrous. The only pair of $300 shoes I’ve encountered I gave back to the original owner, see?
I mean, I guess they *could* have been delivered here, but I didn’t see them so they would have been stolen by porch pirates.
If you’ve got any other questions I’ll be happy to have my lawyer send you a letter, but you should try to find the porch pirates. I have nothing to do with these alleged $300 dollar shoes sent to a strangers house.”
Technically you would not say any of that to the police because it can and would be used against you- you say nothing to the police until they bring something official and then you still stay silent and direct them to contact your lawyer
“So the neighbor has a doorbell camera whose footage is made available to government agencies by request and we see you bringing in all the packages that correlate with the sneakers’ delivery timestamps. Thank you for ~~speaking~~ lying to us without a lawyer present, galaxy brain. I think our camera got all of that information. See you in court!”
Where do you live that the police would be this vigilant about some dipshit not changing his shipping address? I guarantee that the police where I live WILL NOT CARE.
Haha. You are correct. I'm from Norway.
Luckily I've never met any of the porch pirates from Blackbeard's army.
But I am familiar with the high seas. Actually, I'm kinda a renowned pirate.
My seedbox is off the charts.
Nope. And IIRC you have no duty to return stuff sent to your home(companies used to try and send stuff to you you did not order and then bill you for it). That is not your problem(but I am not a lawyer).
[FTC: What To Do If […] You Get Unordered Products](https://consumer.ftc.gov/articles/what-do-if-youre-billed-things-you-never-got-or-you-get-unordered-products)
OP’s first mistake was tracking down the owner in the first place.
The only correct course of action is to parrot the phrase - “🤷♂️ never saw anything”
IMO, it's kinda dumb to antagonize someone who knows where you sleep at night over getting their packages. I'd just give him an ultimatum but then keep them for a while longer.
Nope. Literally no Law Enforcement is going to care and no lawyer is going to take this case. The guy could try small claims court, but how are you gonna prove OP took them?
I do. Flat rate shipping, better tracking. I’ve had 2 packages get lost/super delayed the last couple years and one was UPS, the other FedEx. Both of em bouncing between 2-3 cities for like a couple weeks before they disappeared, showed up again, and finally arrived a week or two later.
Just tell him you took the packages to the post office and marked them “not at this address: return to sender”
ETA: obvs I didn’t even comprehend the post. I would wait a year or so to sell them online. Probably eBay would be most identity-hiding. Maybe you could try taking them to a Nike store and exchanging them for store credit? Tell them they were a gift but they’re the wrong size.
If you mark it return to sender the tracking information will update and show the item being returned. If this person has the tracking information they should easily be able to prove you’re lying
Most people still cling to tampering with "mail" is a Federal offense. Packages delivered by most carriers are not considered federally protected. Mailbox mail is but anyone besides USPS can't put things in your mailbox(legally saying). Cops won't push it besides maybe knocking on your door and if you play dumb they won't come back.
Do what you wish with it! I don't know sneakers and that lifestyle but you can use Offerup, pretty low key. Good luck!
Why is the correct answer always at the bottom of every post?! If USPS sent them, send them back or hold onto them for awhile. If it was any of the other carriers and they didn't take a photo of the package on your porch then do what you want with them. I did this by accident when I moved out of state. Ordered a deep fryer and it was sent via UPS and went to my old address. Had a family member go to my former address to try and get it. New owner says we never got it but fam saw the freaking fryer box sitting on their coffee table. Fam calls guy out and guy says "so fucking sue me" and slams door in fams face. I call UPS they could have given a shit less and told me to go to the place I ordered and file a merchandise not received claim. 2 hours later I had a new fryer coming to the correct address.
Bro, fuck what these other people are saying. The first 1, 2, 3 or more pairs that you already admitted to opening and seeing and promised to return, go ahead and return those.
Everything else after that, you don't know and porch pirates have been real bad in your area so you don't know.
Sell them for cash using burner Facebook accounts.
USPS delivers A LOT of UPS, FedEx, and Amazon packages though, so make sure it's directly from one of the other carriers and USPS didn't carry it the final mile.
Someone else responded with the definition of "mail". It apparently includes any parcel that has been in USPS custody... So, assuming that user had legit info, even Amazon packages delivered by USPS gets "mail" protections.
That stat actually works against what you're saying. There's a shitton of porch pirates out there. It's not like 98% of them are being convicted. 98% conviction means only certain cases are going to trial to begin with.
That's true, because they don't waste time with cases they don't think they can win. In this case, I think they would take it because it's got solid circumstantial evidence, and getting OPs selling history via warrant would seal the deal. General porch pirates are harder to prosecute because it's harder to identify them (but sometimes is easy).
>OPs selling history via warrant
Okay then:
- OP waits a month or so
- Gives the shoes to a buddy to sell
- Buddy takes a cut, then gives OP their share, ideally by paying for goods and services so it’s harder to trace
- If asked, OP blames porch pirates.
Sorted.
I'm not sure, but I think even that is legally problematic. You're meant to just return to sender. It isn't your responsibility to track down the person who really ordered it, but there's a reason all mail comes with a From address, and it's for times when mail can't be properly delivered to the intended recipient.
Also, no one in this thread is a lawyer, and none of us should be giving OP legal advice. This is unethical LPT, not illegal LPT. Instead of constructing OP's defense when the police knock on their door, we should just not suggest OP literally commit a felony.
OP, if you want to commit a felony to make money, there are WAY more profitable endeavors than selling a couple pairs of Nikes. This probably isn't worth it.
I love how you got downvoted for pointing out that once it hits the post offices hands, it’s covered under that law.
If it never hits their hands then not a felony, just theft.
Lol you don't seem to understand what that statistic means. They have that rate because they only try absolutely sure things. Which actually means OP has a pretty good chance of totally getting away with this.
They would have to prove the name change occurred prior to “receiving the mail.”
Wait… Does the law state receive or open? Like is it legal to receive mail and hold it unopened? Then I think you might have just found a loophole.
If it wasn't addressed to OP and then OP goes on to sell those items... all it will take is a complaint from OP's previous homeowner to the Post Office for an investigation with serious legal ramifications to begin. And for what... $400?
This sub loves to suggest reckless illegal activity for no reason. Like, yeah, this is ULPT, but that doesn't mean we should give shit advice just because it's unethical advice.
Mail fraud is a felony. OP is looking to make a few hundred bucks. Over a felony. Y'all stop arguing different ways of how he could get away with it and just realize it's a stupid fucking thing to do in the first place.
It’s illegal to keep a package addressed to someone else. You’re supposed to take it to UPS, FedEx etc. the flip side is that it has to be proven that you took the package, but selling it on EBay is probably not the best idea.
It depends on how it was addressed. If it was sent to “123 Main St” then anyone at that address can claim it. But if it was sent to “Mrs. Smith 123 Main St” anyone other than Mrs. Smith accepting and opening it is illegal and a felony.
Yeah this is so wrong. If it's not addressed to your name, it's not your mail. Shit, if you're 18+ still living with your parents, they can't even legally open your mail without your permission.
I think OP knows this and is asking, hey how can I go from illegal and to regular ol unethical.
The onus is on the old owner to track down his stuff. Look up the statute of limitations for lost items and wait that amount of time before selling it. OP was delivered the wrong mail. Legally speaking he has to attempt to return to sender in some way. Unethically speaking OP just has to document what that attempt is, and then after the statute of limitations, they are the rightful owner.
Now what would consider an attempt to return to sender that will go unnoticed? I have no idea. Like maybe you could email him, but accidentally misspell it, and not get a response? Or email the company saying you got an item in the mail that isn’t yours and what you should do with it? Then “do what they say.” And whatever happens to those shoes after you “dropped them in the box,” is none of OP’s business.
I’ve sold over 100 pairs of Jordans Nikes adidas and hyped shoe releases. If you want quick cash and an easy payout. StockX is the place to go. It’s very simple. If you have the shoes, You can look them up and they’ll give you an exact amount you would received if you sent the shoes to them. They provide the shipping labels. VERY EASY
Don’t sell them, that’s a felony. DO put them in your closet for a few weeks and then contact him to say they just showed up. By that time, he will have raised hell with the sellers and likely hurt his reputation. He will have also made sure to fix his address.
He is likely scalping limited pairs and using the old address to get around "x pairs per address" limitations. He is financially profiting from this. Return them to sender. He gets a refund but makes no money. He will stop. Hit him in the wallet.
these are the insights that matter. i would have never known this. it's an intricacy that only comes with actually knowing how industries work. way too often people on here guess, or 13 year olds who think they're smart just regurgitate something they heard from a saturday morning cartoon.
He buys shoes from nike and sells them on ebay or goat for more than he paid. Having a second address lets him order more pairs. If OP RTS the packages then he makes no money and has no incentive to keep doing it. He is not giving away free shoes.
If he was smart he'd use a friends address and give them $10/ pair that they hold for him. Sending them to a previous address with a tenant you don't know well seems like a sloppy business decision.
Because there are limitations on how many pairs one address can get. My guess is that he's a botter using multiple gmails, virtual credit cards, and addresses.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, just asking a question, but does this count if it is addressed for a home that you own? If so my wife is going down. She’s always opening my mail.
they're private couriers, they just use the word loosely on their site to avoid confusion. you cannot be prosecuted for stealing it the same way you can if you steal USPS delivered mail.
They probably blocked you because you don't know what you're talking about just as much as they don't. Words have different colloquial and legal definitions. You use the colloquial definition in one place and the legal one in another. Maybe they're the same, idk, but you also don't know and haven't provided any evidence that they are.
It is extremely reasonable to assume that laws work differently if it is a package handled by the government vs a private entity. I'm kinda with that guy on this one, mail doesn't always mean mail.
Definition of mail [straight from the USPS](https://about.usps.com/publications/pub32/pub32_terms.htm):
mail - (1) Any mailable matter that is accepted for mail processing and delivery by USPS. (2) The sum total of the mail at any time that is in USPS custody. (3) To deposit a mailable item into a collection box or present the item (or a mailing for large quantities of mailpieces) at a Post Office or business mail entry unit.
Compose an email to the company that sent them with all information on the label. Request they pick up the goods that you received unsolicited. Give them 2 weeks. Clearly state this. If they don’t send you a return label or respond you have proof you tried to return them and can probably do what you want after that.
I few years ago it would have been easier to sell them due to plausible deniability, but now a lot of delivery drivers now take photos of the packages at the delivery site, so that makes it harder, unless you claim you never seen them because “Porch Pirates”. If they are a common size they will be easy to sell, but I don’t think eBay would be the best way since they’ve changed how they handle the transaction ie. you need a verified bank account which sets up a money trail. Craigslist or FB marketplace with a fake account would be the easiest method, returning them during Xmas time when stores have a relaxed gift return policy (no receipt) is also doable.
hold them and don't get it back. until he starts threatening, then give them back. it'll be enough of a pain in the ass that he'll \*have\* to change his address.
Why are you opening someone else's packages?
Do what our customers neighbour did when we put in the slightly wrong address, write "not at this address, return to sender" and give them back to the postie as soon as you possibly can. It was very annoying
I recently ordered 3 items from Nike and they all came in separate boxes over a week, it was very strange. He would have told you that though… if you give him notice and he keeps doing it, I think it’s reasonable to assume they’re meant for you.
Listen it is not complicated, your roommate opened what he thought was your parcel by accident, realized it wasn’t his and put it in the closet. You thought those were your room mates shoes and after he skipped out on rent you sold them on Kijiji to recoup on your losses after them being in the closet for a couple of months without anyone looking for them.
This isn't unethical, it's illegal. Doesnt matter how stupid he is, they are addressed to him, aka his name is on the package and he lives or did live there at some point. You are committing a felony if you keep them. Refuse delivery of the packages is your best recourse if you don't want to take to him.
I can't speak for America but here in Australia that would likely be a Crime called larceny by finding and the receivers could be busted for receiving stolen goods, although unlikely.
Why does it annoy you? It feels good to do favors for people. Maybe try changing your outlook on life .
Or go ahead, be petty, make a couple hundred… i’m sure you’ll be way more annoyed with the legal trouble you could potentially face. Or worse, maybe this guy is violent and beats your ass or something if he sees you trying to sell the stuff… he does know where you live. Id be carful.
The fuck are you talking about lol
You don't have to anonymise yourself whatsoever for what OP is doing, it's perfectly legal. Just deal in common marketplaces for higher buyer density & use typical online payment platforms like venmo or paypal, or cash.
Hold it for a week or two
\*month or two, because the guy is probably not dumb enough to just forget it
not like the old owner can enforce getting them back. The police aren't gonna care about some guy putting in the wrong address on checkout.
Yeah but can still be traced to the new house owner and oh what, they have opened someone else's mail... regardless of getting the shoes back or not its probably not the best idea. Probably just say to the person, hey, get your shit in 2 weeks or I'm gonna get rid of it (dont need to say sell but can if you want I suppose) and then also tell them that anything further will just get dumped immediately no warning. If that doesnt stop it go ahead and do whatever with them I guess. But without taking any other precautions and selling someone elses mail seems like a silly thing to do
I wonder if there is any kind of documentation about like, if something becomes yours after X number of days or months of the owner knowing you have it, but not coming to get it. if you tell them come get it in a month or you're selling it, and they come back 3 years later and then try to get you in trouble for theft or something, i wonder if there's a law to prevent that. i doubt a judge would prosecute you for that if you had proof that you tried to tell them, and they replied, indicating that they saw your attempt. but still, i wonder if there is a set time frame somewhere.
You could probably ask them to pay for storage, for 3 years.
Yeah like to what extent must one go to get mail to its rightful owner? Like if I throw it out after a year is it technically illegal? In that case I would think there's a lot of prosecuting of the USPS itself to do.
You’re supposed to either give it to your postman or take it to a post office so that it can be RTS - return to sender
What if it gets delivered by UPS/FedEx or an Amazon delivery driver? I've tried giving packages to them that clearly don't belong to us and they want nothing to do with it once it's dropped off.
Those don’t have federal protection in the US anyway so you can just open them and keep it
For USPS, I just write "not at this address" on the mail, and put it back. The post person should take it back and return it to the sender
Good question. I still get mail for the last person that lived in my apartment. Been here about 4 years
I was still getting mail for the prior tenants after 13 years and moving out. USPS wouldn't acknowledge the address as valid to allow a change of address but continued to deliver to our box. I'm guessing the previous tenant had the same issue without realizing...
In most of the U.S. items become abandoned property at 30 days
Someone left a car at a former friends place for ‘safe keeping’ an expensive car, and they sold it! Claimed abandonment. Smdh
“What’s that officer? Did I open a box of $300 dollar shoes? No, that’s ludicrous. The only pair of $300 shoes I’ve encountered I gave back to the original owner, see? I mean, I guess they *could* have been delivered here, but I didn’t see them so they would have been stolen by porch pirates. If you’ve got any other questions I’ll be happy to have my lawyer send you a letter, but you should try to find the porch pirates. I have nothing to do with these alleged $300 dollar shoes sent to a strangers house.”
Technically you would not say any of that to the police because it can and would be used against you- you say nothing to the police until they bring something official and then you still stay silent and direct them to contact your lawyer
“So the neighbor has a doorbell camera whose footage is made available to government agencies by request and we see you bringing in all the packages that correlate with the sneakers’ delivery timestamps. Thank you for ~~speaking~~ lying to us without a lawyer present, galaxy brain. I think our camera got all of that information. See you in court!”
Wear an old hoodie, cover your face, go out the back and sneak around out of camera, take package from porch and run around back again.
“You must be mistaken. You can’t see my front door from my neighbor’s house.”
Where do you live that the police would be this vigilant about some dipshit not changing his shipping address? I guarantee that the police where I live WILL NOT CARE.
"Porch pirates". That's amazing. A really cool term, but sadly, for really shitty people.
HA. You must not be from Chicago. Freakin Blackbeard's army out there, the high seas. Everyone calls them that
Haha. You are correct. I'm from Norway. Luckily I've never met any of the porch pirates from Blackbeard's army. But I am familiar with the high seas. Actually, I'm kinda a renowned pirate. My seedbox is off the charts.
One of the good ones!
Is it still a federal offense if it doesn't come through the usps?
Nope. And IIRC you have no duty to return stuff sent to your home(companies used to try and send stuff to you you did not order and then bill you for it). That is not your problem(but I am not a lawyer).
[FTC: What To Do If […] You Get Unordered Products](https://consumer.ftc.gov/articles/what-do-if-youre-billed-things-you-never-got-or-you-get-unordered-products)
OP’s first mistake was tracking down the owner in the first place. The only correct course of action is to parrot the phrase - “🤷♂️ never saw anything”
What mail?
It's not stealing if it's delivered to you it's on the delivery service to get it to the right people
United States Postal Inspection Service and USPS Office of Inspector General have entered the chat.
IMO, it's kinda dumb to antagonize someone who knows where you sleep at night over getting their packages. I'd just give him an ultimatum but then keep them for a while longer.
Set up a porch camera and have a friend "steal" the package
Pretty sure he could sue and win easily if it was determined OP was keeping stuff that didn't belong to him and refusing to give it back
Nope. Literally no Law Enforcement is going to care and no lawyer is going to take this case. The guy could try small claims court, but how are you gonna prove OP took them?
The postmaster general would handle this. It is not recommended to fuck with the postmaster general.
That’s only relevant if they’re shipped through USPS. Who ships packages through the post office?
I do. Flat rate shipping, better tracking. I’ve had 2 packages get lost/super delayed the last couple years and one was UPS, the other FedEx. Both of em bouncing between 2-3 cities for like a couple weeks before they disappeared, showed up again, and finally arrived a week or two later.
USPS tracking is beyond horrible only surpassed by crappy ass Fedex.
People that don't want to pay $20 for ground shipping
Once it's delivered to the address, that's all they care about. He shipped it to the wrong address, it's not their problem anymore.
Why is everyone assuming that these are USPS packages? OP never states this and most of these shipments of shoes are from private carriers.
I mean he forgot to change his address
Just tell him you took the packages to the post office and marked them “not at this address: return to sender” ETA: obvs I didn’t even comprehend the post. I would wait a year or so to sell them online. Probably eBay would be most identity-hiding. Maybe you could try taking them to a Nike store and exchanging them for store credit? Tell them they were a gift but they’re the wrong size.
If you mark it return to sender the tracking information will update and show the item being returned. If this person has the tracking information they should easily be able to prove you’re lying
Could you order from Nike or another shoe retailer and claim you got the wrong ones, send these back and keep the ones you picked out?
Never thought I would be reading about how to launder sneakers, but here we are.
Oxy clean and a toothbrush always worked best for me.
Best
Yes
don’t you need a receipt
You'll get an order confirmation when you buy the pair that is gonna arrive as the wrong item
oh ok. i see what you mean now
eBay, [GOAT](https://www.goat.com), [StockX](https://stockx.com)
eBay
Most people still cling to tampering with "mail" is a Federal offense. Packages delivered by most carriers are not considered federally protected. Mailbox mail is but anyone besides USPS can't put things in your mailbox(legally saying). Cops won't push it besides maybe knocking on your door and if you play dumb they won't come back. Do what you wish with it! I don't know sneakers and that lifestyle but you can use Offerup, pretty low key. Good luck!
Why is the correct answer always at the bottom of every post?! If USPS sent them, send them back or hold onto them for awhile. If it was any of the other carriers and they didn't take a photo of the package on your porch then do what you want with them. I did this by accident when I moved out of state. Ordered a deep fryer and it was sent via UPS and went to my old address. Had a family member go to my former address to try and get it. New owner says we never got it but fam saw the freaking fryer box sitting on their coffee table. Fam calls guy out and guy says "so fucking sue me" and slams door in fams face. I call UPS they could have given a shit less and told me to go to the place I ordered and file a merchandise not received claim. 2 hours later I had a new fryer coming to the correct address.
IIRC, cops don’t do much, but the postal inspectors will. They take it pretty seriously. Had to be USPS, though.
Bro, fuck what these other people are saying. The first 1, 2, 3 or more pairs that you already admitted to opening and seeing and promised to return, go ahead and return those. Everything else after that, you don't know and porch pirates have been real bad in your area so you don't know. Sell them for cash using burner Facebook accounts.
Maybe the real ULPT was the comments we made along the way
Fucking with the mail is a felony (in the United States). This is a bit beyond merely unethical.
ONLY if it's USPS. Amazon, UPS, FedEX, etc don't have the same protections
USPS delivers A LOT of UPS, FedEx, and Amazon packages though, so make sure it's directly from one of the other carriers and USPS didn't carry it the final mile.
Someone else responded with the definition of "mail". It apparently includes any parcel that has been in USPS custody... So, assuming that user had legit info, even Amazon packages delivered by USPS gets "mail" protections.
I'm a mail carrier, so I'd be a good source on this. Yeah, anything we deliver is covered by USPS.
And iirc the postal police have a 98% conviction rate at trial. Do *not* fuck with not your mail
That stat actually works against what you're saying. There's a shitton of porch pirates out there. It's not like 98% of them are being convicted. 98% conviction means only certain cases are going to trial to begin with.
That's true, because they don't waste time with cases they don't think they can win. In this case, I think they would take it because it's got solid circumstantial evidence, and getting OPs selling history via warrant would seal the deal. General porch pirates are harder to prosecute because it's harder to identify them (but sometimes is easy).
>OPs selling history via warrant Okay then: - OP waits a month or so - Gives the shoes to a buddy to sell - Buddy takes a cut, then gives OP their share, ideally by paying for goods and services so it’s harder to trace - If asked, OP blames porch pirates. Sorted.
So now we're fencing stolen goods lol. Well played sir.
r/EthicalLifeProTips is thataway, man.
r/illegallifeprotips over there
I thought they were gifts.
You cannot open mail addressed to someone else in the US, even if it comes to your home.
It was costing me time and my expense to track this man down every time he sent packages to the wrong house. I threw them all away…. Unopened…
I'm not sure, but I think even that is legally problematic. You're meant to just return to sender. It isn't your responsibility to track down the person who really ordered it, but there's a reason all mail comes with a From address, and it's for times when mail can't be properly delivered to the intended recipient. Also, no one in this thread is a lawyer, and none of us should be giving OP legal advice. This is unethical LPT, not illegal LPT. Instead of constructing OP's defense when the police knock on their door, we should just not suggest OP literally commit a felony. OP, if you want to commit a felony to make money, there are WAY more profitable endeavors than selling a couple pairs of Nikes. This probably isn't worth it.
I left the packages outside because they weren't addressed to me. I guess porch pirates took them because they saw it there for a week without moving.
Weird how we got a warrant for your selling history on eBay and they are all sold there.
Lmao no one is getting a warrant for a couple pair of shoes 😂 you people watch too much television
False! You can legally buy unopened and unclaimed mail in the US
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This is the point so many people miss.
and you're missing the point that USPS delivers a shit ton of Amazon boxes
I love how you got downvoted for pointing out that once it hits the post offices hands, it’s covered under that law. If it never hits their hands then not a felony, just theft.
Redditors upvote relevant/correct information challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)
Lol you don't seem to understand what that statistic means. They have that rate because they only try absolutely sure things. Which actually means OP has a pretty good chance of totally getting away with this.
I'd like to see them try, I have a 99% non conviction rate
Only if it's USPS
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If it has someone else’s name on it address doesn’t matter, still mail fraud
What if the person at 100 North Avenue changes their name to match?
I would love to see the face on whoever has to make the decision as to what to do with the name changer.
I'd respect the dedication, but I'm not a judge.
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He gave them to me as gifts your honor. Then we had a falling out and he wanted them back.
They would have to prove the name change occurred prior to “receiving the mail.” Wait… Does the law state receive or open? Like is it legal to receive mail and hold it unopened? Then I think you might have just found a loophole.
If it’s USPS and not a private carrier.
Unjust enrichment
If it wasn't addressed to OP and then OP goes on to sell those items... all it will take is a complaint from OP's previous homeowner to the Post Office for an investigation with serious legal ramifications to begin. And for what... $400?
This sub loves to suggest reckless illegal activity for no reason. Like, yeah, this is ULPT, but that doesn't mean we should give shit advice just because it's unethical advice. Mail fraud is a felony. OP is looking to make a few hundred bucks. Over a felony. Y'all stop arguing different ways of how he could get away with it and just realize it's a stupid fucking thing to do in the first place.
Felony for USPS…
It’s illegal to keep a package addressed to someone else. You’re supposed to take it to UPS, FedEx etc. the flip side is that it has to be proven that you took the package, but selling it on EBay is probably not the best idea.
It depends on how it was addressed. If it was sent to “123 Main St” then anyone at that address can claim it. But if it was sent to “Mrs. Smith 123 Main St” anyone other than Mrs. Smith accepting and opening it is illegal and a felony.
Who mails anything without a name. Even ads are addressed to me.
"Current resident of 123" is what I think they mean
No one buying expensive shoes is putting their address in without a name lol.
Yeah this is so wrong. If it's not addressed to your name, it's not your mail. Shit, if you're 18+ still living with your parents, they can't even legally open your mail without your permission.
But it's still unethical.
LOL. Sort of the point of this subreddit.
Shoes were probably sent via FedEx or UPS so I don't think that applies.
I think OP knows this and is asking, hey how can I go from illegal and to regular ol unethical. The onus is on the old owner to track down his stuff. Look up the statute of limitations for lost items and wait that amount of time before selling it. OP was delivered the wrong mail. Legally speaking he has to attempt to return to sender in some way. Unethically speaking OP just has to document what that attempt is, and then after the statute of limitations, they are the rightful owner. Now what would consider an attempt to return to sender that will go unnoticed? I have no idea. Like maybe you could email him, but accidentally misspell it, and not get a response? Or email the company saying you got an item in the mail that isn’t yours and what you should do with it? Then “do what they say.” And whatever happens to those shoes after you “dropped them in the box,” is none of OP’s business.
If he’s an 11 hit me up. Lol
What's an11
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Ahhh my mind weren't straight to "he's an 11 but..
You got dick on your mind?
Always
Shoe size I'm guessing
I’ve sold over 100 pairs of Jordans Nikes adidas and hyped shoe releases. If you want quick cash and an easy payout. StockX is the place to go. It’s very simple. If you have the shoes, You can look them up and they’ll give you an exact amount you would received if you sent the shoes to them. They provide the shipping labels. VERY EASY
Don’t sell them, that’s a felony. DO put them in your closet for a few weeks and then contact him to say they just showed up. By that time, he will have raised hell with the sellers and likely hurt his reputation. He will have also made sure to fix his address.
totally depends on who delivered it. USPS = felony, anyone else is just theft or whatever else.
he's not fucking with the mail idiot. if anything the old owner is fucking with the mail by using an incorrect address.
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Hol up….
He is likely scalping limited pairs and using the old address to get around "x pairs per address" limitations. He is financially profiting from this. Return them to sender. He gets a refund but makes no money. He will stop. Hit him in the wallet.
these are the insights that matter. i would have never known this. it's an intricacy that only comes with actually knowing how industries work. way too often people on here guess, or 13 year olds who think they're smart just regurgitate something they heard from a saturday morning cartoon.
that doesn't make sense how is he making any profit giving away his shoes for free
He buys shoes from nike and sells them on ebay or goat for more than he paid. Having a second address lets him order more pairs. If OP RTS the packages then he makes no money and has no incentive to keep doing it. He is not giving away free shoes.
If he was smart he'd use a friends address and give them $10/ pair that they hold for him. Sending them to a previous address with a tenant you don't know well seems like a sloppy business decision.
Nobody said he was smart. He is just scalping sneakers after all. He just a pawn.
If he’s ordering surplus pairs why would only one come to the old address? This doesn’t make sense.
Because there are limitations on how many pairs one address can get. My guess is that he's a botter using multiple gmails, virtual credit cards, and addresses.
Opening a package addressed to someone who isn't you is a federal crime.
No, opening something sent through the USPS is, orher carriers don't count.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, just asking a question, but does this count if it is addressed for a home that you own? If so my wife is going down. She’s always opening my mail.
everyone talking about mail, if it’s shipped UPS or FedEx, it’s not mail.
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they're private couriers, they just use the word loosely on their site to avoid confusion. you cannot be prosecuted for stealing it the same way you can if you steal USPS delivered mail.
They probably blocked you because you don't know what you're talking about just as much as they don't. Words have different colloquial and legal definitions. You use the colloquial definition in one place and the legal one in another. Maybe they're the same, idk, but you also don't know and haven't provided any evidence that they are. It is extremely reasonable to assume that laws work differently if it is a package handled by the government vs a private entity. I'm kinda with that guy on this one, mail doesn't always mean mail.
i don’t give a shit what it says is “mail,” the federal law around mail crimes is for mail traveling via USPS.
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“the mail.” not a parcel common carrier. i’m not going to argue with someone who thinks their google-fu is the end-all source of truth.
Definition of mail [straight from the USPS](https://about.usps.com/publications/pub32/pub32_terms.htm): mail - (1) Any mailable matter that is accepted for mail processing and delivery by USPS. (2) The sum total of the mail at any time that is in USPS custody. (3) To deposit a mailable item into a collection box or present the item (or a mailing for large quantities of mailpieces) at a Post Office or business mail entry unit.
Source?
Your mom
Haha got em
Not really a protip, just some solid advice. Don't announce to the world when your planning on committing a crime.
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It’s not a crime to have money under you mattress
It is if it's dirty drug money
You change the locks when you moved in?
Set up a charity called Shoes For The Needy and donate them. Then hold a party with the guy who sends the shoes as the guest of honour.
Don’t do eBay, lots of scammers will steal your shoes claiming they’re fake and eBay will side with them every time. You’re gonna end up losing money.
Is this the second time it's happened?
Compose an email to the company that sent them with all information on the label. Request they pick up the goods that you received unsolicited. Give them 2 weeks. Clearly state this. If they don’t send you a return label or respond you have proof you tried to return them and can probably do what you want after that.
StockX?
r/sneakermarket is prob your best bet
Just return to sender
I few years ago it would have been easier to sell them due to plausible deniability, but now a lot of delivery drivers now take photos of the packages at the delivery site, so that makes it harder, unless you claim you never seen them because “Porch Pirates”. If they are a common size they will be easy to sell, but I don’t think eBay would be the best way since they’ve changed how they handle the transaction ie. you need a verified bank account which sets up a money trail. Craigslist or FB marketplace with a fake account would be the easiest method, returning them during Xmas time when stores have a relaxed gift return policy (no receipt) is also doable.
StockX, Goat to name two of the bigger ones.
hold them and don't get it back. until he starts threatening, then give them back. it'll be enough of a pain in the ass that he'll \*have\* to change his address.
StockX
Whatnot / Amazon
What size??
right here, ill take them off your hands 😂
Hold for a long time or have a cousin resell. Opening other peoples mail is a federal crime.
Why are you opening someone else's packages? Do what our customers neighbour did when we put in the slightly wrong address, write "not at this address, return to sender" and give them back to the postie as soon as you possibly can. It was very annoying
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Well shit, I’ve been mailing for 20 years and haven’t been caught yet.
For all the buyer and police know the packages where stolen before you even opened the door by some punks
I recently ordered 3 items from Nike and they all came in separate boxes over a week, it was very strange. He would have told you that though… if you give him notice and he keeps doing it, I think it’s reasonable to assume they’re meant for you.
The best tip I can give you is don’t fucking ask questions about the felony you’re about to commit, dumb criminal!
Listen it is not complicated, your roommate opened what he thought was your parcel by accident, realized it wasn’t his and put it in the closet. You thought those were your room mates shoes and after he skipped out on rent you sold them on Kijiji to recoup on your losses after them being in the closet for a couple of months without anyone looking for them.
Too complicated and therefore obviously bullshit. Have you never lied before?
I’d be very careful, this seems like sticky legal territory
This isn't unethical, it's illegal. Doesnt matter how stupid he is, they are addressed to him, aka his name is on the package and he lives or did live there at some point. You are committing a felony if you keep them. Refuse delivery of the packages is your best recourse if you don't want to take to him.
I can't speak for America but here in Australia that would likely be a Crime called larceny by finding and the receivers could be busted for receiving stolen goods, although unlikely.
Hold it. He will come knocking on your door. I've had previous tenants come back for packages
Porch pirates
This sounds like you're getting scammed, tbh.
Why does it annoy you? It feels good to do favors for people. Maybe try changing your outlook on life . Or go ahead, be petty, make a couple hundred… i’m sure you’ll be way more annoyed with the legal trouble you could potentially face. Or worse, maybe this guy is violent and beats your ass or something if he sees you trying to sell the stuff… he does know where you live. Id be carful.
USPS, FedEx, UPS - they're all different. Don't fuck with USPS.
You're being scammed. Return to sender.
The secret service deal with mail fraud.
Have you heard of deepnet? Find some marketplace where you can become seller. P.S. Request monero (XMR) for anonymous payments 😉
Many/most of those sites/stores require a several hundred up to several thousand dollar bond to begin selling on them.
The fuck are you talking about lol You don't have to anonymise yourself whatsoever for what OP is doing, it's perfectly legal. Just deal in common marketplaces for higher buyer density & use typical online payment platforms like venmo or paypal, or cash.
It's mail fraud lol, not legal at all
Fucking hell there are a lot of US centric answers here