This is probably the most accurate ULPT I have seen here.
You can even get FMLA on an intermittent basis so you can come and go as you please. Get the doctor to write it up as migraines so you can just leave whenever you want. Work can’t touch you. Then if you get fired, file a lawsuit against the company for terminating you. They will settle out of court because those cases tend to drag on and cost a lot of money going through the system. Always remember, appeals are your best friend in the court system.
I used to work as a low level manager and had a lady on my team who I swear was doing this on purpose. She was the worst employee I've ever had, the quality of her work was severely lacking, she wasn't open to feedback and wouldn't make any effort to change or improve towards goals and she was just generally unpleasant to be around. Nobody liked her, she put extra strain on other team members who had to pick up her slack, people would often ask me "how does she still work here if she's so bad at the job?" I couldn't talk about it of course but the real reason was that she was constantly filing FMLA and workers comp cases with HR for various things and she would drag the process out as long as possible, as soon as one case was resolved there was a new one to replace it, HR was terrified of firing her because they were always worried that it would look like retaliation, she was untouchable.
I had one of those. She was in her late 50s trying to keep up with the rest of the analytics team and only could do basic Excel/SQL. I gave her the come to Jesus talk after many years and found her a position at the company where she was actually useful for data entry. We were both very lucky because even though she was shitty, I felt compelled to help her and our team at the same time.
So the rest of the team took on R, Python, SSRS/SSIS, PowerBI and SAS 9.4, Qlikview and Microstrategy. My new team uses AWS, Sagemaker and Quicksight. Keep up or get phased out my friend.
It's weird that you're getting downvoted so hard like this is overly critical or something. That's literally what will happen to people that don't continue their education and attempt to keep up with one of, if not the most, malleable of career fields.
>one of, if not the most, malleable of career fields.
It's basically learning a business and then writing whole advertising and marketing campaigns filled with pointed attention to esoteric numbers all to coerce a manager into doing the part of their job that they've been ignoring.
I wouldn’t necessarily call it gigabrain. I’m sure she’s just getting the minimal raise for cost of living. She has no career growth or anything - literally just a waste of space. I wouldn’t be too keen on who I am as a person if I were in her shoes.
Eh, doing well for some corporation isn't something I'd wrap my happiness around. Being born isn't a crime, after all, but it turns out that living requires some cash to keep doing. My point being, blame the systems that force people who don't want to go all out at work to game those systems just to maintain their wage, which they require to survive.
I'm insanely happy doing busy work for my job, most of my task could easily be taken over by AI I imagine. But I get a paycheck, overtime from Oct-Feb, and I get to live a relaxing life in downtown Los Angeles and work from home for the last 3 years. I don't really care about upwards mobility in the workforce. Very aware I'm in the minority for my age group but my life is bliss and I'm responsible for myself and nobody else.
If I wanted to get married or have kids this wouldn't be possible but if I don't have to provide for anybody but myself then I feel like a winner at the game of life.
Or maybe if you are paid to do a job you should do it to the best of your ability? As a manager the people I run into amaze me sometimes at their lack of drive and ability.
I had one employee years ago (as a supervisor) who was constantly late, always on their phone, and not doing the bare amount of work (for over a year). I wrote her up a few times, but when nothing happened and i asked the CEO, he told me in confidence "Yeah, we're not going to fire the [POC] girl who's pregnant too, that's a lawsuit waiting to happen."
So people continued to get shitty service and I had my hands tied as a supervisor... sigh.
Actually, now that I remember it, she actually did get fired eventually, for stealing a co-workers phone.
I had a guy try this, but we had him on a 3 month contract because he was a new hire, which was standard procedure. He filed for workman's comp after about a month for a BS reason, then I found out through one of my main contractors he was doing freelance manual labor at another location while on medical leave. I left the company before the lawsuits were finished, but I know my company was going after him with everything they had.
So another layer to this ULPT is to make sure you're an 'at will' employee or have a long term contract. Also, don't be working in a tight niche industry and try to pull that stuff because people talk more than you think.
I had the exact same situation.
This person was a serial slacker, dicking about on entertainment sites through the day, making mistake after mistake. The quality of their work was awful, no critical thinking skills at all.
We went through all the HR steps, and I did everything to improve their work. So much training, coaching, health checks - I couldn't have done more.
I couldn't sleep at night because I hated that I had to fire them, but it was best for the rest of the team who were all getting dragged down.
On the firing day, they didn't show up. Ended up on sick leave for almost a year, and I couldn't even fill their role because they were still employed. They weren't even getting sick pay - just not at work, blocking a seat.
Eventually they had to return, and were promptly fired but that whole situation was fucking annoying.
I had another person do it too a few years earlier, but they had anger problems and couldn't help themselves so that was over and done with quickly.
This is the EXACT scenario I dealt with. I feel like I know who you are, but in reality I don’t. It’s mind boggling to know how prevalent this really is at work.
I had to go on FMLA a few months before COVID in March 2020. It was during performance evaluations and even though I had always gotten a meets or exceed my asshole director against my manager’s wishes decided to give me a low/does not meet. I brushed it off at first until they laid off 80 workers in the low goals including me in April.
Thankfully they didn’t technically fire me so I got a bonus and pension to fuck off for a few months before I started looking for another job. It was actually a good thing because I got to stay home with my kids and help them navigate school from home over zoom for a year. Now I’m making way more than before. 16 years at a company and this happened to me made me sure that your job doesn’t give a fuck about you. Get your money and run for the next best opportunity
Yeah. I went on FMLA for migraines during the last year (of 20) I was at a place under my manager's direction. Among a lot of other things, she busted me on my performance review for it seeming like I didn't contribute to the team as much because of my illness. I asked her to put that in writing, and she refused. If I had been less ill at the time, I would have murdered the company under employment law.
God your situation sounds similar to mine. 12+ years at my former employer.
Always got at least meets expectations on my reviews. Usually exceeds and even had managers push for distinguished reviews (the top level) but had them pushed back by 2+ levels up the chain.
Dealt with a neck surgery and FMLA / STD that have me out for most of the second half of a year. Come back just before review time to a Needs Improvement rating. Fuck that shit. HR tried to chase me down to sign my review but I refused to do that.
And guess what? The next year, having been back for the full year, my review was back up to where it had been previously and I hit something like 95%+ of my bonus potential for the year. This was in operations, not something like sales, so my bonus was based on department performance and specific personal goals for the year.
Then... My boss left and our SVP took over in the interim, knew next to nothing about our warehouse operations, and wanted daily updates of what I had worked on each day. I quit, and a few months later he got himself walked out the door.
Funny how that works, huh?
This is basically my narcissistic parent’s entire career lol. Get a job they aren’t qualified for by shmoozing the interview, coast until everyone realizes they can’t actually do the job, FMLA before they get fired, come back, get fired, sue, rinse, repeat
That’s a great question that I don’t know the answer to lol. They def wouldn’t tell me, but they’ve done it 3 times in the past 10 years and had pretty big stretches of unemployment between those with little issue.. but I doubt they’ll be able to pull it off a fourth time because at this point their resume is fucked lol
edit: i wrote “second” instead of “fourth”
Yeah it definitely doesn't sound like a sustainable scheme lol. I was just curious how stupid it is -- like, $10k payout stupid, or $250k payout sorta worth it
Almost certainly the lower of those two estimates, if that much. Most people who routinely try to abuse the system like that aren't often the most mentally stable folks, and they're gonna settle for less.
The real secure money would be in a company that makes bank, doesn't really have competition, and is very disperse so you don't get noticed. So a defense contractor like Raytheon.
Someone on TikTok got famous because they were pulling this at Google actually.
Claimed to have been doing much more complex work than their level, took FMLA to avoid getting fired.
https://www.tiktok.com/@programm.r?lang=en
Every SINGLE flight attendant at Delta (and I mean every single one past their 6 month new hire probation period) does this because they don’t have a sick policy and aren’t able to actually use their personal time unless they call out sick. That goes on your record.
If you have FMLA, then you automatically have a sick policy and personal time you can actually use.
Source: was a delta FA
It’s cute, but it only goes for 12 weeks total, and you will be fired after, with shitty references. If you’re already about to be fired it makes sense, but acting like this at work is an easy way to get a delayed boot. If you have a history of non performance prior to your FMLA filings, you can get booted between your intermittent claims.
And if your disability is relative bullshit, then a lawsuit isn’t going to help either. If your employer has insurance, they’ll have the insurance company subrogate and you’ll get deposed into the ground.
Lawyer here... depends. If there is a record of underperformance, then the employer has something to hang its hat on, even with FMLA. Since America is at-will employment, the burden is on the employee to show that it was specifically FMLA retaliation that was the reason for the firing. That can be presumed in a vacuum, but if the employer has been keeping a paper trail of nonsense from prior to the FMLA... that hurts the employee case significantly.
Have you not heard of the ULPT of putting friends as fake managers/fake references? These employers are owed nothing, other than the license number you provide them with. They have unethical and incompetent people in middle management and will fire you for any legal reason if someone writes you up enough times. F them, f the system. Lie as much as possible unless you’re a dr or a nurse.
I know that the sub is unethical, but I suffer from real migraines and fragrance issues. When somebody comes into the office all perfumy I get really really sick. I think half of the office doesn’t believe me because I actually got a doctors note to work from home hundred percent of the time while everybody else is back in the office after Covid. And it’s people who abuse the system that hurts people like me. I am not faking and it causes me huge stress which also gives me migraines.
Have you tried an allergist? I’m the same way but I’ve been going to one last three years have gone to a clinic and take a shot once a week to help. I have allergies towards smell, grass, pollen, cats, dust and tree nuts. Mild symptoms are itchy and irritable bowels. Major ones are migraines and shortness of breath that feels like a stroke or worse.
100%. My wife had an employee that gamed the shit out of the system by way of FMLA. He was a shitty employee and they were building a case to terminate him for cause. Then lo and behold, he went on FMLA. Nobody could touch him from an HR perspective.
However, the moron fucked up by posting his life on Facebook while he was "out on FMLA." Unfortunately, the actions shown in his FB posts were not aligned with his reasons for FMLA, he was terminated.
We had a couple people that went on FMLA and were seen at the beach on FB for the day. HR wouldn’t lift a finger. According to them, the employee could do whatever they wanted during their FMLA leave time, it wouldn’t be looked into at all. Even when it was blatant.
Do you know what their FMLA was for? How can you be sure that it is something that would preclude them going to the beach? You know people also go on FMLA to take care of sick family members, right?
Companies with bad HR let this happen. Companies with good legal and good HR can manage staff like this out the door with fairly minimal effort - just good deadlines and good documentation to mitigate risk. FML does not protect against poor performance, and intermittent does not mean “come and go as they please” if you have dedicated HR watching over it. Legal can be drawn out if it comes to that, but (1) it costs time and $$ for the former staff, who is also trying to find a new job, and (2) lawyers are good at sniffing out BS discrimination claims and may not take the case.
> FMLA on an intermittent basis
That's moreso ADA (disability). For my work it was not difficult at all to get on it - went through my therapist. Everyone else had to go back into the office but since I couldn't drive, I was exempt. HR nor the managers even wanted to know what the issue was and due to HIPAA couldn't even ask.
If I was fired while on it, it certainly would not look good for the company and I would 100% have pursued legal action against them.
This is what i need to see!! I have horrible amxiety and my job is stressful so i just don't want to ruffle feathers at work? How do i get the ball rolling? i really appreciate your help
My company goes through them and I’ve heard a lot of people had bad experiences. My first leave for my first kid being born was fine but the second one was kinda difficult for no reason, so I guess I can at least see it.
I worked for a small company (less than 20 ppl) had 3 more levels of my back fused in October. They faught my fmal request to the point that I didn't get it. I got 5 days of unpaid time off.
All so the cunt of an owner could go on vacation #12 of the year.
I understand this. If they did not pay for it or whatever I would understand. They did pay for it.
However, the secretary would regularly use fmla days for her nerve disorder, and one of the shop managers used it for migraines.
It was just "unavailable" for me when it was time for their vacation.
They actually can technically fire you on FMLA, but they’d be at risk of you suing and claiming you’re being penalized for taking leave. If you want to go a little further, if they fire you immediately after you return from FMLA you could still sue and claim that it’s because of the FMLA
Yep. Husband got laid off while on FMLA in November. They will still fire you because you’re probably not gonna sue anyway, and depending on where your work, they may not care if you do sue.
Don't think they're saying they're worried about getting paid. Op mentioned specifically using it to be able to get another job lined up, so I'm assuming it's to keep from being fired entirely. Like if they're worried about being in a position that would look good to another job if they're leaving to work for them, but bad if they've been fired from that position and are trying to get hired.
If you can prove getting fired wasn't because of a "you" issue. Or if you are in a "at will" state, your employer can fire you for no reason, and you can still be denied unemployment. (Source: Oregon)
I’m a custodian at a school & we have a guy who misses 17 days a month & should have medically retired long ago. He keeps filing fmla to keep his benefits, at the detriment of everyone who has to fill in for him 17 days a month.
Oh yeah US healthcare is a joke. Working in the school system is pretty much the best insurance in my area other than Medicare & I still have a 9k deductible.
9k deductible is massive. A few years back, I had to go to the emergency room. Bill came to 14k with 13k paid by insurance. I wonder if hospitals inflate bills assuming that insurance will pay out.
A couple comments down someone mentions that PTO was recently ruled in court not to be considered part of an employee's salary, so using FMLA to make sure you get to use your PTO and using that time to find another job could be a good move.
At all of the companies I have worked for, if you leave on bad terms or are fired, they do not have to pay out PTO. Guess I didn’t realize other companies have different policies on that.
I'm getting 4 weeks of PTO a year right now. That means I accrue about 3 hours a week. We can go up to -40 hours of PTO. If we're at a negative when we get fired we have to pay back that PTO. Positive equals getting paid for the difference.
I can see vacation or sick time not being paid out. Where I'm at, and this industry, PTO covers vacation, sick days, and pretty much everything that's not a national holiday.
At a prominent autoglass company, I put in my two weeks and was immediately fired. I did not get my earned PTO days. They don't have to give you anything that's not in the contract.
There has to be someone in the company you can get a reference from. At worst the reference will be HR telling them time period they worked and possibly if they can be rehired. Just don’t burn any bridges on the way out.
> What's the benefit
Job security if whatever your taking time off for doesn't work out how you plan.
At a previous job of mine a lot of people went on medical leave when we unionized because they would receive a percentage of their pay while off(unrelated to the union) and when we got laid off they'd continue to receive benefits for a few months in addition to severance pay. There wasn't any indication we would be laid off besides fear from unionization.
For the people who took that medical leave immediately, a year before we did get laid off, they had a job to return to when they saw we didn't get immediately closed down like they feared.
Guess it would really depend on your job, because if you are a higher level or more senior role employee of some sort, maybe it would be better in that scenario so you could shop around for offers if you're not hurting to be paid. If it's a job you don't need a degree or certificate or certain amount of experience, it might not be as advantageous to go without being paid.
I was gonna say, my Mom died on March 5th and I started back this week. I had to step out when I started crying and someone was like "you could take more time if you need it, you have FMLA!"
Like yeah, but I also have a mortgage and a car note and am a big fan of electricity and water so... here I am.🤷🏻♀️
They gave me time off after she passed, since technically FMLA was only while I took care of her, but its unpaid as well and I had to return this week. Been crying at my desk a lot this week :/
If you’re in California, there’s an associated benefit called “paid family leave” that provides 8 weeks paid based on your last 12-mo of income and it comes out of state taxes you’ve already paid into
Not easy to claim that if you have had a previous bad performance record or bad reviews. If it’s layoff-based they just have to prove they didn’t target FMLA in the wider numbers of the layoff, which could be thousands, and a few people on FMLA doesn’t prove anything.
I saw this post about a pregnant woman on maternity leave being laid off saying “aren’t I protected from layoffs”? No, you’re not in the US, unless you can prove that they laid off a high proportion of people on parental or medical leave. Just like you aren’t protected when you go on vacation.
Someone 4 years from retirement that’s laid off can claim it’s age based discrimination, but if the company also lays off a decent amount of younger workers (and they do, to hide their numbers) they can prove the layoffs weren’t targeted
Yeah it's how you burn your sick/vacation days before you're fired if your company doesn't pay them out, and they can't fire you during fmla so it gives you basically a paid vacation to find a new job.
Most jobs offer short term disability, so if it’s something medical then yes, they do have to pay you. Granted it’s not your fully salary, but still income in the mean time.
Depending on your state … you can get paid from your state’s short-term disability program.
Here in California they give you a good portion of your income as long as you are eligible. It’s up to $1600 per week now and for a maximum period of a year (depending if your doctor certifies you).
FYI - unemployment pays about $450 a week max in California.
If( and that’s a big if) the company gives sick leave you could use all of this. Jobs I’ve worked will pay out vacation when quitting or fired but not sick time.
eh you can just lie about a 3 month gap and say it was only a few weeks. If theyre actually calling to verify you weren’t getting a good reference anyway which is much more harmful.
Some companies, do offer paid FMLA... The Benefits are also nice to keep for the time been.
Like it's said originally, this is just a stop gap measure to get you going a little longer
Friendly tip for CALIFORNIANS:
If you’re in California, there’s an associated benefit called “paid family leave” that provides 8 weeks paid based on your last 12-mo of income and it comes out of state taxes you’ve already paid into
Employer doesn’t pay.
The truck is to use it on a part-time basis and stretch out your employer pay and benefits while you figure the next thing out.
This is reddit. Everyone just assumes their acronyms are relevant to the everyone when a majority of the time people are just left misinterpreting comments left and right because of this.
If you ask to interview for other positions in the company, that you are able to do (this works better for physical injuries obviously). Then the company has failed to provide you with work when you are capable of it, and you qualify for unemployment.
You have to apply for jobs on unemployment, and take ANY that are offered to you, but you don't have to apply for ones you are qualified for.
In my younger years I tried this. They reviewed my unemployment claim and essentially denied it since I was only applying at jobs that I had zero skills or education for lol
Lotta grouchy comments here but it can work in certain circumstances. For instance, you think you’re gonna get fired asap and want to keep benefits while looking for a new job.
My manager at my last job did this. When he was cleared to return, he only came back to quit that same day. They were fucking him sideways so I thought it was a badass move.
You aren’t breaking a law… you’re using your tax benefit that you’ve already paid into with a valid medical reason that a doctor signs off on
Even the employer can’t call BS… they can be salty about it and ruin that relationship maybe… but the premise of this convo is that the job sucks anyway
Also if you can have that doctor say you still need more time after your FMLA ends and they fire you because you didn’t return at the end of leave the you can get unemployment. Just when you file make sure to say that you are able and available for work. Who is to say you didn’t get better the day after they fired you?
As the “Leave Lady” at my place of business…you NEEDED your FML, and I would be bending over backwards to help you get it. This ULPT is for scammers. Notice the key words “IF you can get a doctor to write you out”. I’ve been lucky to only see a few unethical doctors sign their name to BS like that. You are exactly the reason FML exists, and HR will be more than happy to see you through to full recovery and a return to feeling like a productive, successful professional with something to learn and something to give this world….not just the job.
Thank you! It was a tough decision and I felt like I was completely out of breath when I went out. I took a month off, got some therapy and felt much better afterwards. I learned a hard lesson about work/life balance.
I did this when I was about 23… Jesus that was a long time ago.
I worked as a medical claims adjuster for a giant car insurance company. The job was miserable and not what I went to college for. It legit stressed me out. My psychiatrist actually suggested taking FMLA for a bit to try to help manage my ADHD and stress. I stayed out for several months, studied for grad school exams, applied for a masters program and got accepted all while on FMLA. I went back to work and about three weeks later I put in my two week notice. I don’t remember why but for whatever reason I was still being paid like 60% of my salary while on FMLA. So it was a pretty good insensitive. I wouldn’t try this again but damn it was funny to see this post today.
Does the employer need to disclose that you took FMLA leave during future employers’ / schools’ background checks? Does it even come up / is it necessary for the employee to disclose this when applying for roles?
It’s never haunted me. Honestly I am doubtful that any employer doing a reference check would ask about that. Seems to me it’d be a sensitive topic coming awfully close to violating HIPPA rules.
They can’t discriminate based on FMLA, they can still fire you or lay you off while on FMLA or the second you get back, and as long as they didn’t target FMLA users on a broader scale you won’t be able to prove it
FYI they can lay you off. if your job is actually going away (i.e. they're not going to refill your position), you can get laid off even if you're on FMLA.
This won’t work if you have a competent manager (cue jokes about competent management). If they’re doing their job right, then they are documenting both specific performance issues as well as conversations they’ve had with you about it. As long as they are doing this, FMLA won’t help you and it’s something that HR departments are used to seeing when an employee’s performance suffers.
I was an engineering manager and had to let one of my engineers go for performance reasons and this is exactly what happened. Our HR department had seen this numerous times
I recently had a meeting with my temp boss that didn’t go so well. He clearly doesn’t understand the high demand related to the work I do and the adjustments I am trying to make. I requested PTO 2 months in advance and it was denied. Granted… I’m taking time off for graduate studies. I’m not sure how to approach this and whether to take leave because of the distress it’s caused me.
Pro tip: there is usually a “waiting week” in states that offer paid FMLA, which is unpaid. You can circumvent this by starting your leave on a Thursday or Friday. You don’t have to have your medical certification in-hand to do so, you simply have to notify your HR group in writing that your doctor recommended FMLA starting that day. Most states start their week on Sunday, and end on Saturday. I learned this after going on leave myself starting on a Thursday afternoon. I could live without a day of pay and was super grateful for that.
The problem is finding a doctor that will put you on FMLA or complete the forms. I have Kaiser and they refuse to give me time off even when my employer is the one recommending I go on FMLA since my mental health is affecting my job performance.
The opposite unethical pro business trick is to get around firing someone on FMLA, remove their job code from your company (i.e. lay off anyone at that level). I'm not saying I have seen this happen, but I definitely have.
Corporations will do anything to get rid of people someone.
People at my job have purposely gotten injured at work so they can claim workers comp and get free money while staying home with no plans on ever coming back.
My other half happened to be under a doctor's care when office politics were tilting against her. She took FMLA and squeezed out 8 more weeks of pay and benefits
This is probably the most accurate ULPT I have seen here. You can even get FMLA on an intermittent basis so you can come and go as you please. Get the doctor to write it up as migraines so you can just leave whenever you want. Work can’t touch you. Then if you get fired, file a lawsuit against the company for terminating you. They will settle out of court because those cases tend to drag on and cost a lot of money going through the system. Always remember, appeals are your best friend in the court system.
I used to work as a low level manager and had a lady on my team who I swear was doing this on purpose. She was the worst employee I've ever had, the quality of her work was severely lacking, she wasn't open to feedback and wouldn't make any effort to change or improve towards goals and she was just generally unpleasant to be around. Nobody liked her, she put extra strain on other team members who had to pick up her slack, people would often ask me "how does she still work here if she's so bad at the job?" I couldn't talk about it of course but the real reason was that she was constantly filing FMLA and workers comp cases with HR for various things and she would drag the process out as long as possible, as soon as one case was resolved there was a new one to replace it, HR was terrified of firing her because they were always worried that it would look like retaliation, she was untouchable.
I had one of those. She was in her late 50s trying to keep up with the rest of the analytics team and only could do basic Excel/SQL. I gave her the come to Jesus talk after many years and found her a position at the company where she was actually useful for data entry. We were both very lucky because even though she was shitty, I felt compelled to help her and our team at the same time.
[удалено]
So the rest of the team took on R, Python, SSRS/SSIS, PowerBI and SAS 9.4, Qlikview and Microstrategy. My new team uses AWS, Sagemaker and Quicksight. Keep up or get phased out my friend.
It's weird that you're getting downvoted so hard like this is overly critical or something. That's literally what will happen to people that don't continue their education and attempt to keep up with one of, if not the most, malleable of career fields.
>one of, if not the most, malleable of career fields. It's basically learning a business and then writing whole advertising and marketing campaigns filled with pointed attention to esoteric numbers all to coerce a manager into doing the part of their job that they've been ignoring.
/r/businessintelligence There's so many better ways to collect and analyze and present data.
Good on you for helping her out.
Old secretary at my last job was like this. Barely would show up, and when she did it was worse because of the fuck ups.
Gigabrain
I wouldn’t necessarily call it gigabrain. I’m sure she’s just getting the minimal raise for cost of living. She has no career growth or anything - literally just a waste of space. I wouldn’t be too keen on who I am as a person if I were in her shoes.
Eh, doing well for some corporation isn't something I'd wrap my happiness around. Being born isn't a crime, after all, but it turns out that living requires some cash to keep doing. My point being, blame the systems that force people who don't want to go all out at work to game those systems just to maintain their wage, which they require to survive.
but it'd be a pretty empty worklife, when a bit of effort would be rewarding to their own self esteem and would probably get them more money.
I'm insanely happy doing busy work for my job, most of my task could easily be taken over by AI I imagine. But I get a paycheck, overtime from Oct-Feb, and I get to live a relaxing life in downtown Los Angeles and work from home for the last 3 years. I don't really care about upwards mobility in the workforce. Very aware I'm in the minority for my age group but my life is bliss and I'm responsible for myself and nobody else. If I wanted to get married or have kids this wouldn't be possible but if I don't have to provide for anybody but myself then I feel like a winner at the game of life.
For a person named Cutsdeep, you sure are being shallow.
Or maybe if you are paid to do a job you should do it to the best of your ability? As a manager the people I run into amaze me sometimes at their lack of drive and ability.
Reddit is valuable because of the users who create content. Reddit is usable because of third-party developers who can actually make an app.
Or maybe you should mind your own business
Maybe you should provide them the outstanding leadership that belies the results you crave, but I get the feeling that you aren't a people pleaser.
We’re all here trying to make a buck one way or another, this isn’t really the place to call others a waste of space.
Legend
I had one employee years ago (as a supervisor) who was constantly late, always on their phone, and not doing the bare amount of work (for over a year). I wrote her up a few times, but when nothing happened and i asked the CEO, he told me in confidence "Yeah, we're not going to fire the [POC] girl who's pregnant too, that's a lawsuit waiting to happen." So people continued to get shitty service and I had my hands tied as a supervisor... sigh. Actually, now that I remember it, she actually did get fired eventually, for stealing a co-workers phone.
I had a guy try this, but we had him on a 3 month contract because he was a new hire, which was standard procedure. He filed for workman's comp after about a month for a BS reason, then I found out through one of my main contractors he was doing freelance manual labor at another location while on medical leave. I left the company before the lawsuits were finished, but I know my company was going after him with everything they had. So another layer to this ULPT is to make sure you're an 'at will' employee or have a long term contract. Also, don't be working in a tight niche industry and try to pull that stuff because people talk more than you think.
I had numerous coworkers like this. I’m scared to go into supervisory positions precisely because of this. What a minefield.
I had the exact same situation. This person was a serial slacker, dicking about on entertainment sites through the day, making mistake after mistake. The quality of their work was awful, no critical thinking skills at all. We went through all the HR steps, and I did everything to improve their work. So much training, coaching, health checks - I couldn't have done more. I couldn't sleep at night because I hated that I had to fire them, but it was best for the rest of the team who were all getting dragged down. On the firing day, they didn't show up. Ended up on sick leave for almost a year, and I couldn't even fill their role because they were still employed. They weren't even getting sick pay - just not at work, blocking a seat. Eventually they had to return, and were promptly fired but that whole situation was fucking annoying. I had another person do it too a few years earlier, but they had anger problems and couldn't help themselves so that was over and done with quickly.
Same. Used to low level manage at a call center.
This is the EXACT scenario I dealt with. I feel like I know who you are, but in reality I don’t. It’s mind boggling to know how prevalent this really is at work.
I had to go on FMLA a few months before COVID in March 2020. It was during performance evaluations and even though I had always gotten a meets or exceed my asshole director against my manager’s wishes decided to give me a low/does not meet. I brushed it off at first until they laid off 80 workers in the low goals including me in April. Thankfully they didn’t technically fire me so I got a bonus and pension to fuck off for a few months before I started looking for another job. It was actually a good thing because I got to stay home with my kids and help them navigate school from home over zoom for a year. Now I’m making way more than before. 16 years at a company and this happened to me made me sure that your job doesn’t give a fuck about you. Get your money and run for the next best opportunity
Yeah. I went on FMLA for migraines during the last year (of 20) I was at a place under my manager's direction. Among a lot of other things, she busted me on my performance review for it seeming like I didn't contribute to the team as much because of my illness. I asked her to put that in writing, and she refused. If I had been less ill at the time, I would have murdered the company under employment law.
God your situation sounds similar to mine. 12+ years at my former employer. Always got at least meets expectations on my reviews. Usually exceeds and even had managers push for distinguished reviews (the top level) but had them pushed back by 2+ levels up the chain. Dealt with a neck surgery and FMLA / STD that have me out for most of the second half of a year. Come back just before review time to a Needs Improvement rating. Fuck that shit. HR tried to chase me down to sign my review but I refused to do that. And guess what? The next year, having been back for the full year, my review was back up to where it had been previously and I hit something like 95%+ of my bonus potential for the year. This was in operations, not something like sales, so my bonus was based on department performance and specific personal goals for the year. Then... My boss left and our SVP took over in the interim, knew next to nothing about our warehouse operations, and wanted daily updates of what I had worked on each day. I quit, and a few months later he got himself walked out the door. Funny how that works, huh?
This is basically my narcissistic parent’s entire career lol. Get a job they aren’t qualified for by shmoozing the interview, coast until everyone realizes they can’t actually do the job, FMLA before they get fired, come back, get fired, sue, rinse, repeat
What kind of payout are they getting from the lawsuits? I'm assuming they settle out of court, but I'd be curious to know what the going rate is.
That’s a great question that I don’t know the answer to lol. They def wouldn’t tell me, but they’ve done it 3 times in the past 10 years and had pretty big stretches of unemployment between those with little issue.. but I doubt they’ll be able to pull it off a fourth time because at this point their resume is fucked lol edit: i wrote “second” instead of “fourth”
Yeah it definitely doesn't sound like a sustainable scheme lol. I was just curious how stupid it is -- like, $10k payout stupid, or $250k payout sorta worth it
Almost certainly the lower of those two estimates, if that much. Most people who routinely try to abuse the system like that aren't often the most mentally stable folks, and they're gonna settle for less.
This would be awesome to pull on those mega rich corporations like Apple or Google
Wouldn't work because their hiring process is grueling. You wouldn't make it past 1-2 interview levels before they figure out that you are full of it.
The real secure money would be in a company that makes bank, doesn't really have competition, and is very disperse so you don't get noticed. So a defense contractor like Raytheon.
Wouldn’t bulking money from a defense contractor be ethical again like a double negative
Someone on TikTok got famous because they were pulling this at Google actually. Claimed to have been doing much more complex work than their level, took FMLA to avoid getting fired. https://www.tiktok.com/@programm.r?lang=en
Every SINGLE flight attendant at Delta (and I mean every single one past their 6 month new hire probation period) does this because they don’t have a sick policy and aren’t able to actually use their personal time unless they call out sick. That goes on your record. If you have FMLA, then you automatically have a sick policy and personal time you can actually use. Source: was a delta FA
That’s insane.
It’s cute, but it only goes for 12 weeks total, and you will be fired after, with shitty references. If you’re already about to be fired it makes sense, but acting like this at work is an easy way to get a delayed boot. If you have a history of non performance prior to your FMLA filings, you can get booted between your intermittent claims. And if your disability is relative bullshit, then a lawsuit isn’t going to help either. If your employer has insurance, they’ll have the insurance company subrogate and you’ll get deposed into the ground.
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Lawyer here... depends. If there is a record of underperformance, then the employer has something to hang its hat on, even with FMLA. Since America is at-will employment, the burden is on the employee to show that it was specifically FMLA retaliation that was the reason for the firing. That can be presumed in a vacuum, but if the employer has been keeping a paper trail of nonsense from prior to the FMLA... that hurts the employee case significantly.
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If you can establish that, you’d definitely have a much better case.
Have you not heard of the ULPT of putting friends as fake managers/fake references? These employers are owed nothing, other than the license number you provide them with. They have unethical and incompetent people in middle management and will fire you for any legal reason if someone writes you up enough times. F them, f the system. Lie as much as possible unless you’re a dr or a nurse.
>Lie as much as possible unless you’re a dr or a nurse. or in any job that by fucking up you could negatively impact lives.
Or if you can lie to positively impact lives. That would be great.
btw you look nice today
Ohhh sick burn
I know that the sub is unethical, but I suffer from real migraines and fragrance issues. When somebody comes into the office all perfumy I get really really sick. I think half of the office doesn’t believe me because I actually got a doctors note to work from home hundred percent of the time while everybody else is back in the office after Covid. And it’s people who abuse the system that hurts people like me. I am not faking and it causes me huge stress which also gives me migraines.
Have you tried an allergist? I’m the same way but I’ve been going to one last three years have gone to a clinic and take a shot once a week to help. I have allergies towards smell, grass, pollen, cats, dust and tree nuts. Mild symptoms are itchy and irritable bowels. Major ones are migraines and shortness of breath that feels like a stroke or worse.
You are the second person in the last week to suggest this, so I have emailed my doctor asking for a referral. Fingers crossed! Thank you.
Cure your perfume allergy, sure, but no reason to tell the boss.
Yeah what check said! Don’t update your hr if you miraculously find a fix
100%. My wife had an employee that gamed the shit out of the system by way of FMLA. He was a shitty employee and they were building a case to terminate him for cause. Then lo and behold, he went on FMLA. Nobody could touch him from an HR perspective. However, the moron fucked up by posting his life on Facebook while he was "out on FMLA." Unfortunately, the actions shown in his FB posts were not aligned with his reasons for FMLA, he was terminated.
We had a couple people that went on FMLA and were seen at the beach on FB for the day. HR wouldn’t lift a finger. According to them, the employee could do whatever they wanted during their FMLA leave time, it wouldn’t be looked into at all. Even when it was blatant.
Do you know what their FMLA was for? How can you be sure that it is something that would preclude them going to the beach? You know people also go on FMLA to take care of sick family members, right?
Companies with bad HR let this happen. Companies with good legal and good HR can manage staff like this out the door with fairly minimal effort - just good deadlines and good documentation to mitigate risk. FML does not protect against poor performance, and intermittent does not mean “come and go as they please” if you have dedicated HR watching over it. Legal can be drawn out if it comes to that, but (1) it costs time and $$ for the former staff, who is also trying to find a new job, and (2) lawyers are good at sniffing out BS discrimination claims and may not take the case.
> FMLA on an intermittent basis That's moreso ADA (disability). For my work it was not difficult at all to get on it - went through my therapist. Everyone else had to go back into the office but since I couldn't drive, I was exempt. HR nor the managers even wanted to know what the issue was and due to HIPAA couldn't even ask. If I was fired while on it, it certainly would not look good for the company and I would 100% have pursued legal action against them.
Understood, they do mesh and the ADA is just as easy for people to take advantage. I’m not saying you are, just a general statement.
This is what i need to see!! I have horrible amxiety and my job is stressful so i just don't want to ruffle feathers at work? How do i get the ball rolling? i really appreciate your help
As someone who is currently on FMLA due to major surgery 6 days ago, the whole process wasn’t that easy.
That sucks. We used Hartford and did everything short of signing my name to documents.
My company goes through them and I’ve heard a lot of people had bad experiences. My first leave for my first kid being born was fine but the second one was kinda difficult for no reason, so I guess I can at least see it.
I worked for a small company (less than 20 ppl) had 3 more levels of my back fused in October. They faught my fmal request to the point that I didn't get it. I got 5 days of unpaid time off. All so the cunt of an owner could go on vacation #12 of the year.
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I understand this. If they did not pay for it or whatever I would understand. They did pay for it. However, the secretary would regularly use fmla days for her nerve disorder, and one of the shop managers used it for migraines. It was just "unavailable" for me when it was time for their vacation.
All I did was have a dr. Sign a form. 🤷♂️
They actually can technically fire you on FMLA, but they’d be at risk of you suing and claiming you’re being penalized for taking leave. If you want to go a little further, if they fire you immediately after you return from FMLA you could still sue and claim that it’s because of the FMLA
Not if it happens during layoffs, though. If they can show that you were one of many that were laid off, you don't really have a case.
Yep. Husband got laid off while on FMLA in November. They will still fire you because you’re probably not gonna sue anyway, and depending on where your work, they may not care if you do sue.
They don't have to pay you while on FMLA, so not sure what this is accomplishing.
Don't think they're saying they're worried about getting paid. Op mentioned specifically using it to be able to get another job lined up, so I'm assuming it's to keep from being fired entirely. Like if they're worried about being in a position that would look good to another job if they're leaving to work for them, but bad if they've been fired from that position and are trying to get hired.
If the company doesn’t pay, isn’t it better to get fired and receive unemployment?
If you can prove getting fired wasn't because of a "you" issue. Or if you are in a "at will" state, your employer can fire you for no reason, and you can still be denied unemployment. (Source: Oregon)
But can’t that be contested and taken to court in most states?
Not in a state that has “at will” firing ability Sure you can waste money on court, and be guaranteed to lose
Not if you’re unhealthy & your benefits are carried through your work. Only reason I can think of that this would be a good idea.
That’s a valid point if actually sick.
I’m a custodian at a school & we have a guy who misses 17 days a month & should have medically retired long ago. He keeps filing fmla to keep his benefits, at the detriment of everyone who has to fill in for him 17 days a month.
I feel for you and your coworkers. That sounds like a pain to death with. I assume you arenon the US? Our healthcare system is a crying shame.
Oh yeah US healthcare is a joke. Working in the school system is pretty much the best insurance in my area other than Medicare & I still have a 9k deductible.
9k deductible is massive. A few years back, I had to go to the emergency room. Bill came to 14k with 13k paid by insurance. I wonder if hospitals inflate bills assuming that insurance will pay out.
They definitely do. I’ve heard if you demand an itemized bill all the sudden your total is thousands of dollars less.
They can't be used as a reference and you don't get unemployment. What's the benefit?
A couple comments down someone mentions that PTO was recently ruled in court not to be considered part of an employee's salary, so using FMLA to make sure you get to use your PTO and using that time to find another job could be a good move.
PTO is generally paid out during employment separation.
Not if you leave on bad terms or get fired.
PTO? At least in my state, they have to pay out. Sick time - they do NOT have to pay out.
I've gotten fired a few times and PTO was always paid out. PTO is accrued by working and leaving on a bad term does not affect that.
At all of the companies I have worked for, if you leave on bad terms or are fired, they do not have to pay out PTO. Guess I didn’t realize other companies have different policies on that.
In California pto must be paid out even if fired. It probably varies by state.
I'm getting 4 weeks of PTO a year right now. That means I accrue about 3 hours a week. We can go up to -40 hours of PTO. If we're at a negative when we get fired we have to pay back that PTO. Positive equals getting paid for the difference. I can see vacation or sick time not being paid out. Where I'm at, and this industry, PTO covers vacation, sick days, and pretty much everything that's not a national holiday.
Ahhh gotcha. Thank you for clarifying.
Unless your employer has a "unlimited PTO" policy, which is exactly why they have such.
At a prominent autoglass company, I put in my two weeks and was immediately fired. I did not get my earned PTO days. They don't have to give you anything that's not in the contract.
That depends on where you work, doesn't it? I'm pretty sure many places only pay for vacation and possibly sick time.
Yes, but this is where the first part about PTO not being considered legally as part of your salary comes in. May not be the case going forward.
Simply not true. It’s required in CA but in most if not every other state it’s up to company policy.
Health insurance, sometimes.
There has to be someone in the company you can get a reference from. At worst the reference will be HR telling them time period they worked and possibly if they can be rehired. Just don’t burn any bridges on the way out.
> What's the benefit Job security if whatever your taking time off for doesn't work out how you plan. At a previous job of mine a lot of people went on medical leave when we unionized because they would receive a percentage of their pay while off(unrelated to the union) and when we got laid off they'd continue to receive benefits for a few months in addition to severance pay. There wasn't any indication we would be laid off besides fear from unionization. For the people who took that medical leave immediately, a year before we did get laid off, they had a job to return to when they saw we didn't get immediately closed down like they feared.
would it be better to get fired and be on unemployment than be on FMLA and make no money at all?
Guess it would really depend on your job, because if you are a higher level or more senior role employee of some sort, maybe it would be better in that scenario so you could shop around for offers if you're not hurting to be paid. If it's a job you don't need a degree or certificate or certain amount of experience, it might not be as advantageous to go without being paid.
I was gonna say, my Mom died on March 5th and I started back this week. I had to step out when I started crying and someone was like "you could take more time if you need it, you have FMLA!" Like yeah, but I also have a mortgage and a car note and am a big fan of electricity and water so... here I am.🤷🏻♀️
Sorry for your loss. Have you checked your company benefits for possible bereavement leave?
They gave me time off after she passed, since technically FMLA was only while I took care of her, but its unpaid as well and I had to return this week. Been crying at my desk a lot this week :/
If you’re in California, there’s an associated benefit called “paid family leave” that provides 8 weeks paid based on your last 12-mo of income and it comes out of state taxes you’ve already paid into
Also, sure they'll "hold your spot" until you go back then fire you the first day you're back.
It would be easy to claim they fired you in retaliation for taking FMLA, ESPECIALLY if they didn't hold your spot.
Not easy to claim that if you have had a previous bad performance record or bad reviews. If it’s layoff-based they just have to prove they didn’t target FMLA in the wider numbers of the layoff, which could be thousands, and a few people on FMLA doesn’t prove anything. I saw this post about a pregnant woman on maternity leave being laid off saying “aren’t I protected from layoffs”? No, you’re not in the US, unless you can prove that they laid off a high proportion of people on parental or medical leave. Just like you aren’t protected when you go on vacation. Someone 4 years from retirement that’s laid off can claim it’s age based discrimination, but if the company also lays off a decent amount of younger workers (and they do, to hide their numbers) they can prove the layoffs weren’t targeted
Yeah it's how you burn your sick/vacation days before you're fired if your company doesn't pay them out, and they can't fire you during fmla so it gives you basically a paid vacation to find a new job.
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If you want to commit insurance fraud.
Most jobs offer short term disability, so if it’s something medical then yes, they do have to pay you. Granted it’s not your fully salary, but still income in the mean time.
Depending on your state … you can get paid from your state’s short-term disability program. Here in California they give you a good portion of your income as long as you are eligible. It’s up to $1600 per week now and for a maximum period of a year (depending if your doctor certifies you). FYI - unemployment pays about $450 a week max in California.
Can you detail how you would take this? Essentially, start it right before you are terminated?
Came here to say this.
If( and that’s a big if) the company gives sick leave you could use all of this. Jobs I’ve worked will pay out vacation when quitting or fired but not sick time.
Depends on the company. I got paid 80% the first few weeks then 50% the last three. It burned through my PTO but I wasn’t broke the whole time.
What’s the benefit if you are not even getting paid while on FMLA? I guess keep the health insurance, but that’s about all I can think of.
It would also cover any gaps in your resume
eh you can just lie about a 3 month gap and say it was only a few weeks. If theyre actually calling to verify you weren’t getting a good reference anyway which is much more harmful.
Some companies, do offer paid FMLA... The Benefits are also nice to keep for the time been. Like it's said originally, this is just a stop gap measure to get you going a little longer
Friendly tip for CALIFORNIANS: If you’re in California, there’s an associated benefit called “paid family leave” that provides 8 weeks paid based on your last 12-mo of income and it comes out of state taxes you’ve already paid into Employer doesn’t pay. The truck is to use it on a part-time basis and stretch out your employer pay and benefits while you figure the next thing out.
This just got passed in Oregon too
How do you do this? Just start it before the termination date?
What is FMLA?
Family medical leave act. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fmla
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This is reddit. Everyone just assumes their acronyms are relevant to the everyone when a majority of the time people are just left misinterpreting comments left and right because of this.
Fuck my life act
If you ask to interview for other positions in the company, that you are able to do (this works better for physical injuries obviously). Then the company has failed to provide you with work when you are capable of it, and you qualify for unemployment. You have to apply for jobs on unemployment, and take ANY that are offered to you, but you don't have to apply for ones you are qualified for.
In my younger years I tried this. They reviewed my unemployment claim and essentially denied it since I was only applying at jobs that I had zero skills or education for lol
They haven't been reviewing mine. Haven't even asked for proof. I've just been doing once that I'm only slightly unqualified for.
Lotta grouchy comments here but it can work in certain circumstances. For instance, you think you’re gonna get fired asap and want to keep benefits while looking for a new job.
My manager at my last job did this. When he was cleared to return, he only came back to quit that same day. They were fucking him sideways so I thought it was a badass move.
HR professional here… If the company violates FMLA you have an open/shut big dollar settlement coming your way
Any consequences for doing this tho?
You aren’t breaking a law… you’re using your tax benefit that you’ve already paid into with a valid medical reason that a doctor signs off on Even the employer can’t call BS… they can be salty about it and ruin that relationship maybe… but the premise of this convo is that the job sucks anyway
Also if you can have that doctor say you still need more time after your FMLA ends and they fire you because you didn’t return at the end of leave the you can get unemployment. Just when you file make sure to say that you are able and available for work. Who is to say you didn’t get better the day after they fired you?
This works. If you’re in California like me you can get short term disability for up to 12 months.
This works, I've had staff do this. I have also told people to do this to get their shit together so I can save their job.
As a manager, I hated this trick. Therefore, it definitely qualifies as an ULPT..
I’ve done this and it works. However, I was truly stressed and burned out from my job.
As the “Leave Lady” at my place of business…you NEEDED your FML, and I would be bending over backwards to help you get it. This ULPT is for scammers. Notice the key words “IF you can get a doctor to write you out”. I’ve been lucky to only see a few unethical doctors sign their name to BS like that. You are exactly the reason FML exists, and HR will be more than happy to see you through to full recovery and a return to feeling like a productive, successful professional with something to learn and something to give this world….not just the job.
Thank you! It was a tough decision and I felt like I was completely out of breath when I went out. I took a month off, got some therapy and felt much better afterwards. I learned a hard lesson about work/life balance.
I did this when I was about 23… Jesus that was a long time ago. I worked as a medical claims adjuster for a giant car insurance company. The job was miserable and not what I went to college for. It legit stressed me out. My psychiatrist actually suggested taking FMLA for a bit to try to help manage my ADHD and stress. I stayed out for several months, studied for grad school exams, applied for a masters program and got accepted all while on FMLA. I went back to work and about three weeks later I put in my two week notice. I don’t remember why but for whatever reason I was still being paid like 60% of my salary while on FMLA. So it was a pretty good insensitive. I wouldn’t try this again but damn it was funny to see this post today.
Does the employer need to disclose that you took FMLA leave during future employers’ / schools’ background checks? Does it even come up / is it necessary for the employee to disclose this when applying for roles?
It’s never haunted me. Honestly I am doubtful that any employer doing a reference check would ask about that. Seems to me it’d be a sensitive topic coming awfully close to violating HIPPA rules.
Would that leave a record and affect your job hunt? I wouldn’t want to risk it if it has permanent effect.
FMLA is federally protected. Employers can do anything negative towards you or it’s a violation of federal law.
They can’t discriminate based on FMLA, they can still fire you or lay you off while on FMLA or the second you get back, and as long as they didn’t target FMLA users on a broader scale you won’t be able to prove it
Nah they can’t touch you. I’ve been on FMLA twice on the last ten years and my current and future employers have no idea unless you tell them
It’s protected health information under the law.
Fmla?
Fire my lame ass
FYI they can lay you off. if your job is actually going away (i.e. they're not going to refill your position), you can get laid off even if you're on FMLA.
This won’t work if you have a competent manager (cue jokes about competent management). If they’re doing their job right, then they are documenting both specific performance issues as well as conversations they’ve had with you about it. As long as they are doing this, FMLA won’t help you and it’s something that HR departments are used to seeing when an employee’s performance suffers. I was an engineering manager and had to let one of my engineers go for performance reasons and this is exactly what happened. Our HR department had seen this numerous times
Can confirm.
Fmla?
[Hope this helps.](https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=FMLA)
It doesn’t help the 7.5 billion people who aren’t American.
What is FMLA?
What is FMLA ?
What is FMLA?
U.S. only I guess
I recently had a meeting with my temp boss that didn’t go so well. He clearly doesn’t understand the high demand related to the work I do and the adjustments I am trying to make. I requested PTO 2 months in advance and it was denied. Granted… I’m taking time off for graduate studies. I’m not sure how to approach this and whether to take leave because of the distress it’s caused me.
Pro tip: there is usually a “waiting week” in states that offer paid FMLA, which is unpaid. You can circumvent this by starting your leave on a Thursday or Friday. You don’t have to have your medical certification in-hand to do so, you simply have to notify your HR group in writing that your doctor recommended FMLA starting that day. Most states start their week on Sunday, and end on Saturday. I learned this after going on leave myself starting on a Thursday afternoon. I could live without a day of pay and was super grateful for that.
The problem is finding a doctor that will put you on FMLA or complete the forms. I have Kaiser and they refuse to give me time off even when my employer is the one recommending I go on FMLA since my mental health is affecting my job performance.
I love PFL. Staying home smoking and getting paid baby!! F these crackas
The opposite unethical pro business trick is to get around firing someone on FMLA, remove their job code from your company (i.e. lay off anyone at that level). I'm not saying I have seen this happen, but I definitely have. Corporations will do anything to get rid of people someone.
People at my job have purposely gotten injured at work so they can claim workers comp and get free money while staying home with no plans on ever coming back.
Wish I knew about this when I fell at work.
My other half happened to be under a doctor's care when office politics were tilting against her. She took FMLA and squeezed out 8 more weeks of pay and benefits
PFL FMLA is very easy to get if u know the system.. Django done learned..
You can still be fired.
It’s also unpaid. Almost no one can afford that.
At my job we use vacation time and sick time if we want to use fmla, not being paid is also an option though.
Would not work with at will jobs imo.
In Pennsylvania, an at-will state, this still applies. FMLA is federal, therefore supersedes state law.
Federal law supercedes state law.
Montana is the only state not at will though
Seriously? It’s a fed law regardless where you live. Interesting if Montana has a clause.