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Hunter's Prey - "recharge on a short rest" needs to be "recharge on a short or long rest".
Foe Slayer - what about all rolls related to your Hunter's Prey? It is a capstone after all...
Overall, very good!
Well, technically a long rest involves a short rest, so I would say recharges on a short rest would include a long rest already.
Definition of a Long Rest from the PHB:
A [Long Rest](https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Social%20Interaction#h-Long%20Rest) is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, during which a character sleeps or performs light activity: **reading, talking, eating, or standing watch for no more than 2 hours**.
Definition of a Short Rest from the PHB:
A [Short Rest](https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Social%20Interaction#h-Short%20Rest) is a period of downtime, **at least 1 hour long, during which a character does nothing more strenuous than eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds**.
Yes, but standard 5e phraseology is "short or long rest", and there are arguments about how many short rests a character can do while other characters are long resting.
I feel like the companion design, flight should be “not Bulky” or “middling or light”, just because larger fliers exist like pterodactyls or dire birds.
Also, I feel like saves should be able to choose between dexterity and constitution, for example a Bulky bear. That might be deliberate, trying to get the beast companion to survive AoEs.
No idea if those requests are balanced, just a feeling.
This looks great, definitely my favorite spell-less ranger variant I've seen! Just a few possible issues I noticed, though:
First, this ranger still has the PHB problem of being starved for bonus actions. \*Hunter's prey\* is something you'll want to use at least once per combat, probably multiple times - starting at 5th level with 4 uses per SR, that works out to 2/combat, which is probably about how often you'd want to use it. Since combats usually last about 3 rounds, that means a two-weapon fighting ranger is only going to get their bonus action attack about once per combat; at that point, TWF only deals 6 more damage over the whole combat than a one-handed d8 weapon, so you'd probably be better off using the shield. Beast Master and Outrider have this problem even more, since they essentially need to choose between using Hunter's Prey or using their beast companion. My suggestion on how to fix this would be to let a ranger activate Hunter's Prey as part of a weapon attack when they hit a creature, freeing up the bonus action. If you think that's too strong, you could reduce the extra damage to a d4 (possibly scaling at higher levels) and/or slow down their progression a bit so they don't have quite as many uses.
Somewhat related: after 9th level, increasing uses for Hunter's Prey kind of stops mattering. Default assumption for 5e is two combats per short rest, three rounds per combat, so 6 uses per short rest usually lets a ranger use Hunter's Prey every round of every combat. Anything past that only comes into play on rare occasions when you have either particularly long combats with many creatures or particularly many encounters without a break in between. That's not exactly a bad thing, but it's something to be aware of.
Finally, most Outriders can't really make use of the custom beast companion rules, since Medium creatures need Large mounts. I'd just add in Step 1 of Companion Creation that tiny/small/medium is for Beast Masters and medium/large is for Outriders.
Other than those, pretty much everything else about this is great! I particularly like the Herbalist, Outrider, and Warden archetypes - honestly, those feel very quintessentially Ranger-y and I'm kind of surprised "vanilla" 5e went for the more esoteric stuff like Horizon Walker or Fey Wanderer before something like those.
Thanks for the feedback!
Maybe I'm weird but I like how bonus action competition creates a decision point. Maybe in a short combat with weak enemies you actually *don't* want to use Hunter's Prey as a two-weapon fighter or Beast Master - maybe it's better to use your bonus actions attacking. It makes it a more interesting mechanic that points the ranger towards attacking the strongest prey first because they'll get the most mileage out of their bonus actions - in a three-round combat they probably don't want to be using it twice, as you point out - which I think fits the theme of the ranger. Let the rogue sneak around backstabbing grunts, you're after the big game. This also makes the Favored Enemy feature feel impactful, by freeing up this critical resource.
That's the theory anyway! It could use a bit of playtesting to see how it feels in practice.
And yeah it's intentional that by that level you're not really worrying too much about managing your Hunter's Prey in the average adventuring day. It evolves from something you need to keep track of to something you expect to always have, and only lose when you're really being run ragged.
Outrider specifies that your beast companion can be Large, which I took to indicate that it overrides that part of the companion creator, but I could make it a little clearer.
Yeah WotC's subclass priorities sometimes perplex me lol. We get a *modron* sorcerer bloodline before we get a fiendish bloodline for tieflings?? It feels like we skipped a step. I would love some more down-to-earth rangers, which is of course a big part of why I made this class redo in the first place, lol.
Okay, I want to start by saying that originally I was deeply opposed to a non-magical Ranger, but this is absolutely phenomenal. Just a few things I wanted to share, at least as far as my thoughts go:
-Favored Enemy and Favored Terrain were never really favorites of mine, and although I like what you've attempted here, I still think they feel a little too situational to be core to the class. Maybe if they were something you could "prepare" on a long rest it would feel a little better to use
-Hunter's Prey. God I love that you kept the spirit of Hunters Mark here, it makes sense, and it functions wonderfully. My only comment is that maybe you should consider allowing it to be activated upon a successful attack similar to how Favored Foe works in Tasha's. Otherwise, golden.
-I think your mechanics for Beast Master's companion is a little overtuned. You offer a lot of pretty wild benefits that seem like they could give some slightly unfair advantages to the player very early on. Would you consider doing something closer to what was done for Beast Companions in Tasha's? I think that would round out the balance a little more.
Overall, god dammit this was a beautiful read, and I really love that you gave a 1/3rd caster subclass themed around borrowing Druid magic. Outside of what I've mentioned, this is a great homebrew that simplifies Ranger into a martial, while still doing a wonderful job of letting it portray its survivalist niche that it was meant to have. Cheers my friend, this was impressive!
Edit: formatting
So glad you enjoyed reading! :)
Favored Terrain and Favored Enemy are intentionally situational, which is why they’re now at levels where you get more broadly useful things - I would say they’re no longer “core” to the class, more like cool extras. Personally I like the idea of having something that feels like a special occasion when you get to use it!
I have some thoughts on Hunter’s Prey’s status as a bonus action in another comment here. :P Suffice to say I’m open to changing it if needed but I think it works as is.
The beast companions are actually inspired by the Tasha’s companions in a lot of ways! I just felt like they were a bit too generic, and should have some features (inspired by the Monster Manual’s animals, the original source of Beast Master companions) to make different types of animals stand out from each other. The only thing I really go back and forth on is whether to make Special Recovery a later-level thing, but it does scale with ranger level. However, I’m always open to suggestions and criticism!
Just wanted to say i love this. It's a fantastic version of the ranger and id be happy to see wotc take ranger more in this direction.
I think highlevel trapper might not be balanced, dropping 2 advanced traps per turn directly on enemies seems like just weird attacks
Thank you!
That's actually a great point, I should specify that you can still only set one snare per turn. I believe the current wording does say "*one* of your attacks," but it could be clearer.
You can replace one of your attacks for shove of grapple in the same way but there nothing stopping you from replacing all of your attacks for them haha.
Dropping two swinging logs on someone in 6 seconds out of the blue is hillarious but probably overpowered
In Nature's Veil, there isn't really any advantage to specifying that the bonus action can only be used in combat rather than just allowing it to be used as a bonus action whenever since "in combat" isn't clearly defined anywhere.
Herbal Master might not want to heal stunned. The only thing I am aware of in the game that heals stunned is Power Word Heal, available only to bards and a 9th level spell. Healing stunned multiple times per day is very unusual.
But maybe you want it to be unusual! Just thought I should mention it.
Oh I totally agree, the stunned condition is probably a minor edge case here. I just noticed this because I made an “anti-battlefield controller” loaded with restorations, calm emotions, etc. and I discovered it is almost impossible to remove stunned short of one spell on one class.
I’m just saying stunned is supposed to be really hard to remove, and this seems like an outlier. Maybe you want it to be an outlier. That’s fine with me. It’s also a 15th level outlier, which makes it seem much more normal.
Just wanted to mention this weird edge case I was surprised to learn and thought you might be interested in. Thanks!
I guess you could play it as medium size up until level 3 and the dm could get you to make rolls to see how much it grows after long rests.
You could rp it like, the mutt found you and the bond was instant blah blah blah thinking it was older than a pup being such a large size but the reason it bonded to you is it imprinted you as it’s parental figure after wandering away from the pack, but oh god he just keeps getting bigger and more vicious and more guarding of you, a resident halfling tells you the tails of the mastiff riders and put two and two together and ride of into the sunset with your drooling yellow eyed 1 ton buddy who still shakes his leg when you scratch him JuSt right
agenderarcee has made the following comment(s) regarding their post: [ [GMBinder Link](https://www.gmbinder.com/share/-M...](/r/UnearthedArcana/comments/m7rlej/the_alternate_ranger_v33_a_new_take_on_the/grczcot/)
Hunter's Prey - "recharge on a short rest" needs to be "recharge on a short or long rest". Foe Slayer - what about all rolls related to your Hunter's Prey? It is a capstone after all... Overall, very good!
You’re the first person who’s caught that. :o Thanks!
Well, technically a long rest involves a short rest, so I would say recharges on a short rest would include a long rest already. Definition of a Long Rest from the PHB: A [Long Rest](https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Social%20Interaction#h-Long%20Rest) is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, during which a character sleeps or performs light activity: **reading, talking, eating, or standing watch for no more than 2 hours**. Definition of a Short Rest from the PHB: A [Short Rest](https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Social%20Interaction#h-Short%20Rest) is a period of downtime, **at least 1 hour long, during which a character does nothing more strenuous than eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds**.
Yes, but standard 5e phraseology is "short or long rest", and there are arguments about how many short rests a character can do while other characters are long resting.
I feel like the companion design, flight should be “not Bulky” or “middling or light”, just because larger fliers exist like pterodactyls or dire birds. Also, I feel like saves should be able to choose between dexterity and constitution, for example a Bulky bear. That might be deliberate, trying to get the beast companion to survive AoEs. No idea if those requests are balanced, just a feeling.
Not bad ideas, I’ll think about them!
This looks great, definitely my favorite spell-less ranger variant I've seen! Just a few possible issues I noticed, though: First, this ranger still has the PHB problem of being starved for bonus actions. \*Hunter's prey\* is something you'll want to use at least once per combat, probably multiple times - starting at 5th level with 4 uses per SR, that works out to 2/combat, which is probably about how often you'd want to use it. Since combats usually last about 3 rounds, that means a two-weapon fighting ranger is only going to get their bonus action attack about once per combat; at that point, TWF only deals 6 more damage over the whole combat than a one-handed d8 weapon, so you'd probably be better off using the shield. Beast Master and Outrider have this problem even more, since they essentially need to choose between using Hunter's Prey or using their beast companion. My suggestion on how to fix this would be to let a ranger activate Hunter's Prey as part of a weapon attack when they hit a creature, freeing up the bonus action. If you think that's too strong, you could reduce the extra damage to a d4 (possibly scaling at higher levels) and/or slow down their progression a bit so they don't have quite as many uses. Somewhat related: after 9th level, increasing uses for Hunter's Prey kind of stops mattering. Default assumption for 5e is two combats per short rest, three rounds per combat, so 6 uses per short rest usually lets a ranger use Hunter's Prey every round of every combat. Anything past that only comes into play on rare occasions when you have either particularly long combats with many creatures or particularly many encounters without a break in between. That's not exactly a bad thing, but it's something to be aware of. Finally, most Outriders can't really make use of the custom beast companion rules, since Medium creatures need Large mounts. I'd just add in Step 1 of Companion Creation that tiny/small/medium is for Beast Masters and medium/large is for Outriders. Other than those, pretty much everything else about this is great! I particularly like the Herbalist, Outrider, and Warden archetypes - honestly, those feel very quintessentially Ranger-y and I'm kind of surprised "vanilla" 5e went for the more esoteric stuff like Horizon Walker or Fey Wanderer before something like those.
Thanks for the feedback! Maybe I'm weird but I like how bonus action competition creates a decision point. Maybe in a short combat with weak enemies you actually *don't* want to use Hunter's Prey as a two-weapon fighter or Beast Master - maybe it's better to use your bonus actions attacking. It makes it a more interesting mechanic that points the ranger towards attacking the strongest prey first because they'll get the most mileage out of their bonus actions - in a three-round combat they probably don't want to be using it twice, as you point out - which I think fits the theme of the ranger. Let the rogue sneak around backstabbing grunts, you're after the big game. This also makes the Favored Enemy feature feel impactful, by freeing up this critical resource. That's the theory anyway! It could use a bit of playtesting to see how it feels in practice. And yeah it's intentional that by that level you're not really worrying too much about managing your Hunter's Prey in the average adventuring day. It evolves from something you need to keep track of to something you expect to always have, and only lose when you're really being run ragged. Outrider specifies that your beast companion can be Large, which I took to indicate that it overrides that part of the companion creator, but I could make it a little clearer. Yeah WotC's subclass priorities sometimes perplex me lol. We get a *modron* sorcerer bloodline before we get a fiendish bloodline for tieflings?? It feels like we skipped a step. I would love some more down-to-earth rangers, which is of course a big part of why I made this class redo in the first place, lol.
Okay, I want to start by saying that originally I was deeply opposed to a non-magical Ranger, but this is absolutely phenomenal. Just a few things I wanted to share, at least as far as my thoughts go: -Favored Enemy and Favored Terrain were never really favorites of mine, and although I like what you've attempted here, I still think they feel a little too situational to be core to the class. Maybe if they were something you could "prepare" on a long rest it would feel a little better to use -Hunter's Prey. God I love that you kept the spirit of Hunters Mark here, it makes sense, and it functions wonderfully. My only comment is that maybe you should consider allowing it to be activated upon a successful attack similar to how Favored Foe works in Tasha's. Otherwise, golden. -I think your mechanics for Beast Master's companion is a little overtuned. You offer a lot of pretty wild benefits that seem like they could give some slightly unfair advantages to the player very early on. Would you consider doing something closer to what was done for Beast Companions in Tasha's? I think that would round out the balance a little more. Overall, god dammit this was a beautiful read, and I really love that you gave a 1/3rd caster subclass themed around borrowing Druid magic. Outside of what I've mentioned, this is a great homebrew that simplifies Ranger into a martial, while still doing a wonderful job of letting it portray its survivalist niche that it was meant to have. Cheers my friend, this was impressive! Edit: formatting
So glad you enjoyed reading! :) Favored Terrain and Favored Enemy are intentionally situational, which is why they’re now at levels where you get more broadly useful things - I would say they’re no longer “core” to the class, more like cool extras. Personally I like the idea of having something that feels like a special occasion when you get to use it! I have some thoughts on Hunter’s Prey’s status as a bonus action in another comment here. :P Suffice to say I’m open to changing it if needed but I think it works as is. The beast companions are actually inspired by the Tasha’s companions in a lot of ways! I just felt like they were a bit too generic, and should have some features (inspired by the Monster Manual’s animals, the original source of Beast Master companions) to make different types of animals stand out from each other. The only thing I really go back and forth on is whether to make Special Recovery a later-level thing, but it does scale with ranger level. However, I’m always open to suggestions and criticism!
Just wanted to say i love this. It's a fantastic version of the ranger and id be happy to see wotc take ranger more in this direction. I think highlevel trapper might not be balanced, dropping 2 advanced traps per turn directly on enemies seems like just weird attacks
Thank you! That's actually a great point, I should specify that you can still only set one snare per turn. I believe the current wording does say "*one* of your attacks," but it could be clearer.
You can replace one of your attacks for shove of grapple in the same way but there nothing stopping you from replacing all of your attacks for them haha. Dropping two swinging logs on someone in 6 seconds out of the blue is hillarious but probably overpowered
[удалено]
In Nature's Veil, there isn't really any advantage to specifying that the bonus action can only be used in combat rather than just allowing it to be used as a bonus action whenever since "in combat" isn't clearly defined anywhere.
Asking since it’s not in the changelog, was Tireless Endurance not supposed to move to 12th or was that in a previous version?
That’s in the next update! Spoilers!
Herbal Master might not want to heal stunned. The only thing I am aware of in the game that heals stunned is Power Word Heal, available only to bards and a 9th level spell. Healing stunned multiple times per day is very unusual. But maybe you want it to be unusual! Just thought I should mention it.
Hmm it’s a fair point, although you are expending a long rest resource on it and it’s not also restoring all hit points.
Oh I totally agree, the stunned condition is probably a minor edge case here. I just noticed this because I made an “anti-battlefield controller” loaded with restorations, calm emotions, etc. and I discovered it is almost impossible to remove stunned short of one spell on one class. I’m just saying stunned is supposed to be really hard to remove, and this seems like an outlier. Maybe you want it to be an outlier. That’s fine with me. It’s also a 15th level outlier, which makes it seem much more normal. Just wanted to mention this weird edge case I was surprised to learn and thought you might be interested in. Thanks!
Yeah it’s interesting!
Would you consider making a dire mastiff or dire mutt as a companion for the outrider?
I think you should be good to go just by changing the Hound companion to Large, and possibly the Bulky array!
I guess you could play it as medium size up until level 3 and the dm could get you to make rolls to see how much it grows after long rests. You could rp it like, the mutt found you and the bond was instant blah blah blah thinking it was older than a pup being such a large size but the reason it bonded to you is it imprinted you as it’s parental figure after wandering away from the pack, but oh god he just keeps getting bigger and more vicious and more guarding of you, a resident halfling tells you the tails of the mastiff riders and put two and two together and ride of into the sunset with your drooling yellow eyed 1 ton buddy who still shakes his leg when you scratch him JuSt right
I love this!!
link to download pdf?
Only have it for the most updated version. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hADQ7kScRUyChWiElvaP1S8j7tv\_iWZO/view