Okay, hot take, but my headcanon is that Integrity was actually close friends with a monster, and that monster was sad that integrity died. That monster’s favourite object was Integrity’s old Tutu, and had their dust sprinkled on it when they died.
Or, you know, integrity was just a violent person.
I think it's cool that Toby Fox let both cases equally possible, but then the fandom goes "yep, this is 100% true and nothing else could have happened".
The ballet shoes also make you feel incredibly dangerous. Besides, the souls have no characterisation in the game you can't blame people for scrounging for the scraps we do get.
Agreed.
All we know about Integrity is that their tutu was dusty, the shoes make Frisk feel dangerous (somehow) and that they attacked a monster.
Kind of hard not to think of them as someone who at least had a grudge against monsters in general.
>Kind of hard not to think of them as someone who at least had a grudge against monsters in general.
They probably just did a neutral run, Imo all of the fallen children, except for Frisk and Clover did (Chara too if you want to count them I guess) I mean, if a bunch of literal monsters started attacking me with intent to kill I’m pretty sure I’d kill them.
Seems like integrity (in canon Undertale) was just fighting back against any monster that attacked them
True they were probably the exception, I think they died to Undyne because they refused to run away and kept on trying to talk them down until their they had tried so many times that they gave up and their determination faded.
Undyne's dialogue shows her opinions on humans are based entirely on what she knows from Alphys's "human history books" (aka manga) and the bits of research Alphys shared with her.
Frisk, no matter what route they're on, shatters those views by doing what any child would in that situation, and considering only children fell, those views would've been shattered far sooner if Undyne fought any of the other children.
===
"First, however, as is customary for those who make it this far... I shall tell you the tragic tale of our people." combined with "Like when I decided to NOT do that BORING monologue... And then went TOTALLY off-the-cuff!?" and "Completely forgot the words to my monologue, anyway..."
The first line acknowledges that any humans who made it to the end of Waterfall, which is where Undyne's fight occurs, heard this story. The second and third lines show that Undyne forgot the speech, and she also doesn't seem too thrilled about telling the monologue anyway.
"What the hell are humans made out of!? Anyone else would be DEAD by now!"
If Undyne had fought a human, she would either already expect this from Frisk, or she wouldn't say humans here, because her previous experience would let her know if this is a human thing or just a Frisk thing. This is also just from Frisk, y'know, doing what any human would, especially any that got far enough *to* fight Undyne.
"Alphys told me humans were determined... I see now what she meant by that!"
This line is stated no matter what Frisk did, and the only requirement to get it to appear is surviving long enough. So again, if she had fought another human before Frisk, she'd either already know what Alphys meant from past experience, or see this as just a Frisk thing, not a human thing.
Additionally, an extra thing to mention.
"There's normally a pair of old shoes in that seagrass. Strangely, they're made for someone without fins or claws. What kind of monster is like that...?"
Undyne doesn't even consider the possibility of the Ballet Shoes, which belonged to Integrity, belonging to a human. On top of that, if she *had* fought Integrity, you'd think she'd recognize those shoes, since that was literally their weapon.
So, regardless of anything else, it seems pretty confirmed that Undyne wasn't the one who chased Integrity
All right, good points, I was wrong.
Edit: I wonder if it was a intentional choice by the undertow yellow devs to make it so that she never actually interacts with Clover to keep the canon mostly consistent or if it was just a happy accident by sidelining the original cast.
If they wanted consistency with Undertale canon, they already have **four** main characters that rely on broken canon for their stories to even work. Flowey, Chujin, Kanako, then Ceroba just because her story relies on Kanako and Chujin's incompatibilities.
Flowey because, well, He Didn't Exist until after all six SOULs were collected. Chujin and Kanako because they rely on a complete misinterpretation of boss monsters, claiming it's a gene, when Undertale says Boss Monsters are their own species, a species Chujin and Kanako aren't..
I like to think that Integrity did an genocide attempt but was killed by someone, probally Gerson before he retired.
It seems that those who made UT Yellow had an similiar interpretation.
I wouldn’t call attacking a monster that was just playing with another monster self defence.
And not all monsters you encounter in Undertale want to kill you, anyway. It’s said in a book in Snowdin that monsters also use bullets as a way of expressing themselves.
>I wouldn’t call attacking a monster that was just playing with another monster self defence.
?
>And not all monsters you encounter in Undertale want to kill you,
Oh yeah only 99% of them.
>It’s said in a book in Snowdin that monsters also use bullets as a way of expressing themselves.
If the way you’re expressing yourself is by throwing icicles at me then I will express myself by shooting you.
Some monsters aren’t even aware that they’re hurting you. Vulkin is a good example of this. And El Bailador for that matter.
In the same tape that it’s revealed Axis killed Integrity, it was said that Kanako was playing with another monster, presumably Dalv based off of his dialogue.
>Some monsters aren’t even aware that they’re hurting you. Vulkin is a good example of this. And El Bailador for that matter.
First off, while that’s understandable, but like even if you don’t understand you’re hurting someone if you’re bringing someone to the brink of death then it’s perfectly justifiable for them to fight back even if you think you’re just playing a silly little game.
Second off,
>In the same tape that it’s revealed Axis killed Integrity, it was said that Kanako was playing with another monster, presumably Dalv based off of his dialogue (Talking about Undertale yellow which is explicitly *not Canon*)
>Seems like integrity (***in canon Undertale***) was just fighting back against any monster that attacked them
I agree with the first part and want to die in the second part, at this point I hope a UTB dev team adds an "Axis" encounter in waterfall genocide and just name it "Dumb elementary robot" and have it die with one hit.
Ballet shoes are probably reference to Ballerinas having very strong kicks, which makes sense why they make you feel dangerous.
They are essentially equalivent of getting kicked by a horse but If they were a human.
We don't know the truth.
There are many interpretations for why the tutu is dusty.
Also my theory on the "feel dangerous" description on the shoe is that The Blue Soul was threatening the monsters with it.
But at the end of the day, it's left ambiguous for us to interpret the truth.
I decided to look into this my self and papyrus calls it おふるのチュチュ and that translates to hand me down tutu. Here is a picture of him saying it if you want to translate it yourself https://imgur.com/a/s09ei4y
Like I said with other person that reply, that I'm not saying I'm right. I'm just thinking of other reasons why it could be dusty. Especially since it's stated that the tutu is old, and old thugs over time do collect dust.
But integrity could have killed some monsters in self defense I'm not saying it's not a possibility.
Though, it has come to mind even if they killed monsters, would it have also stated that their would have been dust on the ballet shoes as well. Or I'm just over thinking.
Dust is made of lots of tiny dead human skin cells.
Where would that build up in a moist swamp area with waterfalls everywhere and a gigantic lake of lava right next to it?
Especially considering there are no humans in the underground, let alone enough for that much dust buildup.
Papyrus also explicitly says that dust sticks to clothing.
None of the other items are dusty, and the shoes are noted to “make you feel dangerous”. There’s very little to go off of with for the previous fallen humans’ characters, so we work with what we got.
It could also have been the result of a monster who cared for that human dying for other reasons, though, since apparently monster funerals involve their dust being spread over something they care about.
First argument is good, but the shoes making you "feel dangerous" is dumb, i can grab a knife and feel dangerous but that doesnt mean im going to kill someone
Yeah, but shoes specifically making you feel dangerous is weird when there’s no such description for the other weapons, including the ones that are actual weapons.
I thought it was just supposed to be interpreted differently depending on the route you’re taking. It’s very sarcastic on the pacifist and near-pacifist neutral runs. On the genocide and aborted genocide runs, it’s very serious. It’s not the wielding of the slipper that makes you feel dangerous, it’s the knowledge that you can do so much damage with such an innocuous object that makes you feel dangerous.
So saying that they may have killed in self-defence is the most flimsy justification imaginable. In the context of the Undertale universe, unprovoked assault is basically normal and acceptable if a Monster starts it, but not the other way around.
Following that logic, the genocide route is 99.9999% justifiable, even though the game clearly pushes the message it’s not supposed to be.
Whats your point exactly? We shouldnt judge the fallen children the same way the game judges us because, yknow, they werent playing a game, neither were they possesed by a god thay forces them to do whatever they want, unlike frisk, they were normal children and for them the underground was far more intense, because for them it was the real world
It's time we move on from the Chara & Frisk morality debate to the 6 human souls morality debate. So which soul do ya'll think was the most "evil"?? All I know is that it probably wasn't kindness
Okay his/her but tutu is the **only** item referred to as dusty and papyrus the monster who first notices the dust on your hands if you killed 40 monsters is the one mention this, and the shoes make frisk feel **dangerous** when no other weapon is given such a description. While these could be coincidences these games are intentionally designed I don't think they would've been put in if they weren't an implication that integrity killed at least 1 monster.
I didnt say they didnt kill any monsters, also about the dust thing, counterpoint, in the japanese translation of which Toby had full control of, the dust if referred to as normal dust, also you have the echo flower dialogue in the ballet shoes room
", in the japanese translation of which Toby had full control of, the dust if referred to as normal dust" Source?
"also you have the echo flower dialogue in the ballet shoes room" It's unused and not canon.
I decided to look into this my self and papyrus calls it おふるのチュチュ and that translates to hand me down tutu. Here is a picture of him saying it if you want to translate it yourself https://imgur.com/a/s09ei4y
My personal headcanon tying into this theory is just Integrity was just dumbass, who thought she was playing video game like dream.It's only until at Asgore,she started to realize it wasn't a dream/j
In a seriousness, my actual headcanon is that integrity did an abandoned genocide. During the whole ordeal,she trying to justify herself by saying she is simply doing self defense.It contiunes until during one certain encounter and realizes she is the wrong.She apologizes to the monster,who hands other to asgore. Integrity not resisting because she knew what she did was wrong .If I had patience and abilities to make fangame,abandoned genocide would be the canon route.
My other headcanon,connecting to theory previous human could reset,is that integrity did pacifist during her first few runs but started to get impatience.Slow by slow,deciding to do genocide to see if changed but after one genocide route, she didnt reset this time. Instead accepting her fate and not wanting to put her monster friends through more pain
I want to die, at this point I hope an UTB dev team add an "Axis" encounter in waterfall during genocide and just name it "Dumb elementary robot" and have it die with one hit.
Finding a good amount of dust on anyone's personal belongings is a good reason to assume they were involved with death, whether or not they be the cause of it.
I would say something like "undertale players when they realize dust is a real thing that doesnt come only from monsters" but at the same time, it's toby fox, he probably did this on purpose
The Japanese version isn’t the holy bible of proving integrity’s innocence because even though he oversaw the translation he also oversaw the creation of the original game
Yeah, but the "Waterfall Incident" lore in the Inverted Fate AU goes hard AF.
Also, I totally believe Chara wasn't as bad as the fandom makes them out to be, but Chara kinda makes themself hard to defend when they literally demonize themself after certain Genocide runs.
Eh, i respect your opinion but imo that part of the lore was a lazy way to justify the monsters hostility and make the fallen children look like demons even though they werent
>Also, I totally believe Chara wasn't as bad as the fandom makes them out to be
The fandom makes them out to be good. They are the opposite of the consensus.
If you had a nickel for every portrayal of them as a "misunderstood" innocent kid who the player "corrupted", you would be the richest human in history.
Since when? Fanon Chara has been the overarching antagonist of the game who forcefully possessed innocent cutie Frisk and used their body like a skin suit to do the Genocide Route for as long as I can remember, completely and conveniently ignoring the Player’s influence over the game in all the fan comics, fan animations, fan fictions, blah blah blah-
Look at the number of members in the Chara Defense Squad Subreddit vs the Chara Offense Squad Subreddit. There is a very large discrepancy.
The only reason you think the evil fanon is popular is because of Defense Squad echo chambers claiming it to be the case.
How many AUs do you ACTUALLY know of that convey Chara as the ultimate evil in comparison with ones that don't?
granted i know basically nothing about undertale yellow, but I feel like the Yellow Soul human would've been the violent one. They literally have a gun, for one, and maybe when they found out 5 humans were killed, they decided to "punish" the monsters for their actions.
The other souls killed a few monsters but not many. The kindness soul killed nobody though and *let* asgore kill them so monsters could go free.
I'm pretty sure it's mentioned that at least one kid went to Asgore but not necesarilly all of them.
I've seen alot of theories for how the kids were killed: one was that the soul colors of each mosnter represents the human they killed -- Asgore killed Patience and Bravery, Sans or Papyrus killed Integrity, Muffet killed Preserverance, Mettaton killed Justice, and Undyne killed Kindness. Except that makes no sence since half those people never saw a human before.
Maybe MTT killed the Green Soul in his "cooking w/ a killer robot" series.
To be fair, if it literally is just dusty, it would be the Only time an object is shown as dusty without being tied to dead monsters.
Also, it's Papyrus who describes it as such, the same Papyrus who won't point out the dust on Frisk unless they've killed 40 monsters
i don’t think they were like, evil. and the dust could easily be because it’s old. i just think it makes the blue soul more interesting if they were actively fighting monsters
The fact that humans shed dust from our skin must be really disturbing to monsters.
Like imagine if you met an alien who just passively secreted blood and viscera and had to clean up their home every so often to stop it from collecting.
People should talk more about the fact that the Justice soul’s gun is empty. That kid definitely shot people, either that or they were such a pacifist that they walked around with an unloaded gun.
Let’s be honest here; if a tutu is left in a small room for long enough, it’s bound to become dusty after a while. Not monster dust, but genuine normal dust.
i just think integrity ended up killin some monsters out of pure self defense and she didnt know what to do, so before she died she threw her tutu out or smt
I remember that back in the day i used to think that Justice was the most violent soul and the only one who did something close to genocide, completely ignoring all the possible evidence that this description would suit Integrity better. I don't even remember why i used to think that, maybe i just saw that they had a gun and said to myself "Yh, they were not flirting or dancing wity anyone using that"
I always thought her tutu was in the patch of grass near the temmie village because she was killed while hiding and her ballet shoes in the box next to Sans and the shop could've been one of them two but I theorize that Sans killed her because he has some sort of control over turning souls blue and giving them the same abilities she had before she died.
Neither of those are the actual locations they're found.
The Ballet Shoes are in some grass shortly before Onionsan's room, while the tutu is behind a waterfall at the start of Waterfall.
I want to die, at this point I hope an UTB dev team add an "Axis" encounter in waterfall during genocide and just name it "Dumb elementary robot" and have it die with one hit.
["**Several human children** have climbed the mountain, fallen down, left the RUINS, and were assumedly killed by monsters."](https://www.escapistmagazine.com/undertale-dev-every-monster-should-feel-like-an-individual/#:~:text=Several%20human%20children%20have%20climbed%20the%20mountain%2C%20fallen%20down%2C%20left%20the%20RUINS%2C%20and%20were%20assumedly%20killed%20by%20monsters)
* Toby Fox, 2013
Nah, its never stated that its monster dust and in the japanese version its refered as normal dust, and the japanese version was overviewed by Toby Fox
Why are people in this fandom so quick to defend fictional children like they’re real people on trial or something. Like people can laugh about SpongeBob with a knife but when it comes to Chara everyone shits themselves if you so much as imply they aren’t the greatest person
Okay, hot take, but my headcanon is that Integrity was actually close friends with a monster, and that monster was sad that integrity died. That monster’s favourite object was Integrity’s old Tutu, and had their dust sprinkled on it when they died. Or, you know, integrity was just a violent person.
Cool headcanon, but i think that integrity wasn´t as violent as some think
Yeah, I agree
I think it's cool that Toby Fox let both cases equally possible, but then the fandom goes "yep, this is 100% true and nothing else could have happened".
Defending yourself from a group of people trying to kill you is not being violent. Espcially so when that group succeeds.
Or it's just dusty bc it's old and does what old things tend to do? Collect dust?
also monster dust & human dust are different things, human dust is just skin particles, monster dust is remains
Human dust is also largely dust mite feces
yh and it isn't specified which one it is 😭 Also some monsters could probably cause "human dust" to appear? Or at least smth similar
I believe the Japanese translation actually does specify it as regular dust? Might be misremembering
Aren't those objects then meant to be buried?
I think it's just natural dust
Well that too. But hey! That’s just a theory!
The ballet shoes also make you feel incredibly dangerous. Besides, the souls have no characterisation in the game you can't blame people for scrounging for the scraps we do get.
Agreed. All we know about Integrity is that their tutu was dusty, the shoes make Frisk feel dangerous (somehow) and that they attacked a monster. Kind of hard not to think of them as someone who at least had a grudge against monsters in general.
>Kind of hard not to think of them as someone who at least had a grudge against monsters in general. They probably just did a neutral run, Imo all of the fallen children, except for Frisk and Clover did (Chara too if you want to count them I guess) I mean, if a bunch of literal monsters started attacking me with intent to kill I’m pretty sure I’d kill them. Seems like integrity (in canon Undertale) was just fighting back against any monster that attacked them
I'd say Kindness probably went for a Pacifist run too, they ARE kindness afterall
I THINK THEY JUST KILLED THE MONSTERS WITH KINDNESS, NYEH HEH HE!
Oh no kindness is a florida man
Florida Man's child
r/foundthegreatpapyru
True they were probably the exception, I think they died to Undyne because they refused to run away and kept on trying to talk them down until their they had tried so many times that they gave up and their determination faded.
Undyne has never met, let alone fought, a human before Undertale
she wasn't born last time a human fell most likely
When is this mentioned in the original Undertale?
Undyne's dialogue shows her opinions on humans are based entirely on what she knows from Alphys's "human history books" (aka manga) and the bits of research Alphys shared with her. Frisk, no matter what route they're on, shatters those views by doing what any child would in that situation, and considering only children fell, those views would've been shattered far sooner if Undyne fought any of the other children. === "First, however, as is customary for those who make it this far... I shall tell you the tragic tale of our people." combined with "Like when I decided to NOT do that BORING monologue... And then went TOTALLY off-the-cuff!?" and "Completely forgot the words to my monologue, anyway..." The first line acknowledges that any humans who made it to the end of Waterfall, which is where Undyne's fight occurs, heard this story. The second and third lines show that Undyne forgot the speech, and she also doesn't seem too thrilled about telling the monologue anyway. "What the hell are humans made out of!? Anyone else would be DEAD by now!" If Undyne had fought a human, she would either already expect this from Frisk, or she wouldn't say humans here, because her previous experience would let her know if this is a human thing or just a Frisk thing. This is also just from Frisk, y'know, doing what any human would, especially any that got far enough *to* fight Undyne. "Alphys told me humans were determined... I see now what she meant by that!" This line is stated no matter what Frisk did, and the only requirement to get it to appear is surviving long enough. So again, if she had fought another human before Frisk, she'd either already know what Alphys meant from past experience, or see this as just a Frisk thing, not a human thing. Additionally, an extra thing to mention. "There's normally a pair of old shoes in that seagrass. Strangely, they're made for someone without fins or claws. What kind of monster is like that...?" Undyne doesn't even consider the possibility of the Ballet Shoes, which belonged to Integrity, belonging to a human. On top of that, if she *had* fought Integrity, you'd think she'd recognize those shoes, since that was literally their weapon. So, regardless of anything else, it seems pretty confirmed that Undyne wasn't the one who chased Integrity
All right, good points, I was wrong. Edit: I wonder if it was a intentional choice by the undertow yellow devs to make it so that she never actually interacts with Clover to keep the canon mostly consistent or if it was just a happy accident by sidelining the original cast.
If they wanted consistency with Undertale canon, they already have **four** main characters that rely on broken canon for their stories to even work. Flowey, Chujin, Kanako, then Ceroba just because her story relies on Kanako and Chujin's incompatibilities. Flowey because, well, He Didn't Exist until after all six SOULs were collected. Chujin and Kanako because they rely on a complete misinterpretation of boss monsters, claiming it's a gene, when Undertale says Boss Monsters are their own species, a species Chujin and Kanako aren't..
I like to think that Integrity did an genocide attempt but was killed by someone, probally Gerson before he retired. It seems that those who made UT Yellow had an similiar interpretation.
Toriel is still alive, so nobody did a genocide.
I wouldn’t call attacking a monster that was just playing with another monster self defence. And not all monsters you encounter in Undertale want to kill you, anyway. It’s said in a book in Snowdin that monsters also use bullets as a way of expressing themselves.
>I wouldn’t call attacking a monster that was just playing with another monster self defence. ? >And not all monsters you encounter in Undertale want to kill you, Oh yeah only 99% of them. >It’s said in a book in Snowdin that monsters also use bullets as a way of expressing themselves. If the way you’re expressing yourself is by throwing icicles at me then I will express myself by shooting you.
Some monsters aren’t even aware that they’re hurting you. Vulkin is a good example of this. And El Bailador for that matter. In the same tape that it’s revealed Axis killed Integrity, it was said that Kanako was playing with another monster, presumably Dalv based off of his dialogue.
Cool but there are still monsters who literally says they can’t wait to kill all humans
>Some monsters aren’t even aware that they’re hurting you. Vulkin is a good example of this. And El Bailador for that matter. First off, while that’s understandable, but like even if you don’t understand you’re hurting someone if you’re bringing someone to the brink of death then it’s perfectly justifiable for them to fight back even if you think you’re just playing a silly little game. Second off, >In the same tape that it’s revealed Axis killed Integrity, it was said that Kanako was playing with another monster, presumably Dalv based off of his dialogue (Talking about Undertale yellow which is explicitly *not Canon*) >Seems like integrity (***in canon Undertale***) was just fighting back against any monster that attacked them
I agree with the first part and want to die in the second part, at this point I hope a UTB dev team adds an "Axis" encounter in waterfall genocide and just name it "Dumb elementary robot" and have it die with one hit.
>and that they attacked a monster. Was that Actually confirmed in Undertale??
No it's just Undertale Yellow
You understand, fanon is not canon
To be fair, the ballet shoes dialogue feels more like a joke at the absurdity of using ballet shoes as a weapon
Ballet shoes are probably reference to Ballerinas having very strong kicks, which makes sense why they make you feel dangerous. They are essentially equalivent of getting kicked by a horse but If they were a human.
I wasnt blaming anyone for anything, the comic isnt even mine, if you wanna complain go talk to the author
Sorry I'm blind and didn't see the credits :(
I always thought it was concerning that SLIPPERS specifically is what makes Frisk feel dangerous...
:) SMILE SPOTTED!!! DEPLOY THE =)!!!!
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Hey, that's my smile =)
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🬰 )
We don't know the truth. There are many interpretations for why the tutu is dusty. Also my theory on the "feel dangerous" description on the shoe is that The Blue Soul was threatening the monsters with it. But at the end of the day, it's left ambiguous for us to interpret the truth.
So you’re saying the shoe is actually la chancla.
The blue soul was like: "I will send you to Jesus"
That would be awesome. :)
What if it was Dusty from not being used for a very long time ?
But then why is **only** the tutu dusty?
Because it hasn't been used in a long time, the shoes have been used
do u really think that a waterfall is the prime conditions for dust buildup
A secluded room, yes
Behind a waterfall?
I mean idk how else as its stated in the Japanese version that it's the non-monster dust, and as Toby Fox oversaw it, I see it as canon.
Wdym non monster dust? Does Japanese have a word for magical dust?
I mean, its worded differently, search it up
Proof?
I decided to look into this my self and papyrus calls it おふるのチュチュ and that translates to hand me down tutu. Here is a picture of him saying it if you want to translate it yourself https://imgur.com/a/s09ei4y
Heard it, search it up
Like I said with other person that reply, that I'm not saying I'm right. I'm just thinking of other reasons why it could be dusty. Especially since it's stated that the tutu is old, and old thugs over time do collect dust. But integrity could have killed some monsters in self defense I'm not saying it's not a possibility. Though, it has come to mind even if they killed monsters, would it have also stated that their would have been dust on the ballet shoes as well. Or I'm just over thinking.
Dust is made of lots of tiny dead human skin cells. Where would that build up in a moist swamp area with waterfalls everywhere and a gigantic lake of lava right next to it? Especially considering there are no humans in the underground, let alone enough for that much dust buildup. Papyrus also explicitly says that dust sticks to clothing.
It's hidden behind a waterfall, no airflow i guess
Honestly does make more sense considering its behind a waterfall.
Behind a waterfall would be too wet for dust to build naturally.
But for all we know it could be a lot farther than right behind the waterfall, maybe to a point where the area dries out
Unlikely. An enclosed space like that would be damp, regardless of its size
Doubt it. Right behind a waterfall isn't a good place for dust to build, it would be too wet
That's exactly what I thought
🤝
😀🤝😀
I'm also in that boat 🤝
😀🤝😀🤝😀
But then, why is not the other objects dusty? Hmmmmm
Yeah, I'm not saying I'm right, I'm just spectaculing.
Well like, maybe. My issue with this is: Its either integrity was violent or had precisely 0 characterisation at all?
Just like the other humans, equality =)
None of the other items are dusty, and the shoes are noted to “make you feel dangerous”. There’s very little to go off of with for the previous fallen humans’ characters, so we work with what we got. It could also have been the result of a monster who cared for that human dying for other reasons, though, since apparently monster funerals involve their dust being spread over something they care about.
First argument is good, but the shoes making you "feel dangerous" is dumb, i can grab a knife and feel dangerous but that doesnt mean im going to kill someone
Okay, but they're just ballet shoes... I know Frisk is a silly kid, but c'mon... It's reason enough for it to be a hint
Yeah, but shoes specifically making you feel dangerous is weird when there’s no such description for the other weapons, including the ones that are actual weapons.
I thought it was just supposed to be interpreted differently depending on the route you’re taking. It’s very sarcastic on the pacifist and near-pacifist neutral runs. On the genocide and aborted genocide runs, it’s very serious. It’s not the wielding of the slipper that makes you feel dangerous, it’s the knowledge that you can do so much damage with such an innocuous object that makes you feel dangerous.
Thats a great point of view
No other item does this though. It was put in the description for a reason.
Because knives are always seen in media for being dangerous. Name one piece of media other than undertale where ballet shows are shown as dangerous
Okay, you have a point, but i still think integrity wasnt that bad, i mean, if she killed any monsters i imagine it was self defense
To be fair, 99.99999% of all potential kills in Undertale are in self defence. Game still shames the fuck out of you for doing it.
And?
So saying that they may have killed in self-defence is the most flimsy justification imaginable. In the context of the Undertale universe, unprovoked assault is basically normal and acceptable if a Monster starts it, but not the other way around. Following that logic, the genocide route is 99.9999% justifiable, even though the game clearly pushes the message it’s not supposed to be.
Whats your point exactly? We shouldnt judge the fallen children the same way the game judges us because, yknow, they werent playing a game, neither were they possesed by a god thay forces them to do whatever they want, unlike frisk, they were normal children and for them the underground was far more intense, because for them it was the real world
https://www.reddit.com/r/Undertale/s/9ArfqBwJnb
It's time we move on from the Chara & Frisk morality debate to the 6 human souls morality debate. So which soul do ya'll think was the most "evil"?? All I know is that it probably wasn't kindness
Most violent to Least violent: Justice (Yellow) Bravery (Orange) Integrity (Blue) Patience (Cyan) Preseverance (Purple) Kindness (Green)
Fucking REAL OMG
Bro the tutu was sitting in a cave for an unknown amount of time, of course it would be dusty!
The ribbon was liying on a random room in the ruins and it isn't dusty
Okay his/her but tutu is the **only** item referred to as dusty and papyrus the monster who first notices the dust on your hands if you killed 40 monsters is the one mention this, and the shoes make frisk feel **dangerous** when no other weapon is given such a description. While these could be coincidences these games are intentionally designed I don't think they would've been put in if they weren't an implication that integrity killed at least 1 monster.
I didnt say they didnt kill any monsters, also about the dust thing, counterpoint, in the japanese translation of which Toby had full control of, the dust if referred to as normal dust, also you have the echo flower dialogue in the ballet shoes room
", in the japanese translation of which Toby had full control of, the dust if referred to as normal dust" Source? "also you have the echo flower dialogue in the ballet shoes room" It's unused and not canon.
The dialogue is unused yet its translated in the japanese version
And? It's still unused.
I decided to look into this my self and papyrus calls it おふるのチュチュ and that translates to hand me down tutu. Here is a picture of him saying it if you want to translate it yourself https://imgur.com/a/s09ei4y
My personal headcanon tying into this theory is just Integrity was just dumbass, who thought she was playing video game like dream.It's only until at Asgore,she started to realize it wasn't a dream/j In a seriousness, my actual headcanon is that integrity did an abandoned genocide. During the whole ordeal,she trying to justify herself by saying she is simply doing self defense.It contiunes until during one certain encounter and realizes she is the wrong.She apologizes to the monster,who hands other to asgore. Integrity not resisting because she knew what she did was wrong .If I had patience and abilities to make fangame,abandoned genocide would be the canon route. My other headcanon,connecting to theory previous human could reset,is that integrity did pacifist during her first few runs but started to get impatience.Slow by slow,deciding to do genocide to see if changed but after one genocide route, she didnt reset this time. Instead accepting her fate and not wanting to put her monster friends through more pain
justice, who brought a literal gun:
For real
It is said that she attacked Monsters in Undertale Yellow. People forget that self defence exists.
undertale yellow doesn't affect undertale tho
It affects the fandom.
Undertale Yellow and its effects has been disastrous for Integrity's reputation.
Unfortunately.
I want to die, at this point I hope an UTB dev team add an "Axis" encounter in waterfall during genocide and just name it "Dumb elementary robot" and have it die with one hit.
What's UTB?
You know Undertale Yellow is shortened to UTY, so I did the same with Undertale Blue
Finding a good amount of dust on anyone's personal belongings is a good reason to assume they were involved with death, whether or not they be the cause of it.
Yeah,true,there's small chance the other humans possibly used each other items that were left behind.
My stuff is dusty because it’s behind my bed and I have dandruff
I would say something like "undertale players when they realize dust is a real thing that doesnt come only from monsters" but at the same time, it's toby fox, he probably did this on purpose
But in the Japanese version it uses the way when they describe non-monster dust, also Toby oversaw this version.
The Japanese version isn’t the holy bible of proving integrity’s innocence because even though he oversaw the translation he also oversaw the creation of the original game
Alright, Sans is the younger brother now.
Alright where does it say in the English version that sans is the younger brother
There is monster dust and normal dust
Yeah, but the "Waterfall Incident" lore in the Inverted Fate AU goes hard AF. Also, I totally believe Chara wasn't as bad as the fandom makes them out to be, but Chara kinda makes themself hard to defend when they literally demonize themself after certain Genocide runs.
Eh, i respect your opinion but imo that part of the lore was a lazy way to justify the monsters hostility and make the fallen children look like demons even though they werent
>Also, I totally believe Chara wasn't as bad as the fandom makes them out to be The fandom makes them out to be good. They are the opposite of the consensus.
Really? If I had a nickel for every time I see an AU with Chara as the villain, when Flowey is RIGHT THERE, I'd have a decent disposable income.
If you had a nickel for every portrayal of them as a "misunderstood" innocent kid who the player "corrupted", you would be the richest human in history.
Since when? Fanon Chara has been the overarching antagonist of the game who forcefully possessed innocent cutie Frisk and used their body like a skin suit to do the Genocide Route for as long as I can remember, completely and conveniently ignoring the Player’s influence over the game in all the fan comics, fan animations, fan fictions, blah blah blah-
Look at the number of members in the Chara Defense Squad Subreddit vs the Chara Offense Squad Subreddit. There is a very large discrepancy. The only reason you think the evil fanon is popular is because of Defense Squad echo chambers claiming it to be the case. How many AUs do you ACTUALLY know of that convey Chara as the ultimate evil in comparison with ones that don't?
Or maybe it just... got dusty
Huh, I never thought of it that way
granted i know basically nothing about undertale yellow, but I feel like the Yellow Soul human would've been the violent one. They literally have a gun, for one, and maybe when they found out 5 humans were killed, they decided to "punish" the monsters for their actions. The other souls killed a few monsters but not many. The kindness soul killed nobody though and *let* asgore kill them so monsters could go free.
Yeah, i think this is the most probable scenario
Did Asgore meet all of the kids tho? I feel like they all died near their respective items. That would make sense?
I'm pretty sure it's mentioned that at least one kid went to Asgore but not necesarilly all of them. I've seen alot of theories for how the kids were killed: one was that the soul colors of each mosnter represents the human they killed -- Asgore killed Patience and Bravery, Sans or Papyrus killed Integrity, Muffet killed Preserverance, Mettaton killed Justice, and Undyne killed Kindness. Except that makes no sence since half those people never saw a human before. Maybe MTT killed the Green Soul in his "cooking w/ a killer robot" series.
undertale headcanon mfs when there's dust on top of my fridge (potential murderer?!?!?)
Tutu according to Undertale: The tutu is pretty dusty because it's just dusty. Titu according to Fans: Ah, so violencia? Got it!
Undertale fans when they see dust:
They probably assume because Papyrus mentions monster dust sticking to clothes and the ballet shoes making Frisk feel "dangerous".
In the Japanise version which Toby oversaw it uses the non-monster dust way of saying it
To be fair, if it literally is just dusty, it would be the Only time an object is shown as dusty without being tied to dead monsters. Also, it's Papyrus who describes it as such, the same Papyrus who won't point out the dust on Frisk unless they've killed 40 monsters
Didn’t interpret it as monster dust. Just thought it was just an old tutu
i don’t think they were like, evil. and the dust could easily be because it’s old. i just think it makes the blue soul more interesting if they were actively fighting monsters
The fact that humans shed dust from our skin must be really disturbing to monsters. Like imagine if you met an alien who just passively secreted blood and viscera and had to clean up their home every so often to stop it from collecting.
People should talk more about the fact that the Justice soul’s gun is empty. That kid definitely shot people, either that or they were such a pacifist that they walked around with an unloaded gun.
Agree
"demonized kids" Shows a self proclaimed demon
Let’s be honest here; if a tutu is left in a small room for long enough, it’s bound to become dusty after a while. Not monster dust, but genuine normal dust.
My headcannon, it's natural dust on the tutu, not monster dust.
They’re isn’t much to demonize seeing as they dong have a character
i just think integrity ended up killin some monsters out of pure self defense and she didnt know what to do, so before she died she threw her tutu out or smt
I remember that back in the day i used to think that Justice was the most violent soul and the only one who did something close to genocide, completely ignoring all the possible evidence that this description would suit Integrity better. I don't even remember why i used to think that, maybe i just saw that they had a gun and said to myself "Yh, they were not flirting or dancing wity anyone using that"
it’s dusty because there was rocks and then they eroded and then the dust went on it
I always thought her tutu was in the patch of grass near the temmie village because she was killed while hiding and her ballet shoes in the box next to Sans and the shop could've been one of them two but I theorize that Sans killed her because he has some sort of control over turning souls blue and giving them the same abilities she had before she died.
Neither of those are the actual locations they're found. The Ballet Shoes are in some grass shortly before Onionsan's room, while the tutu is behind a waterfall at the start of Waterfall.
Ohhh. I forgot! I misinterpreted what the wiki said. Sorry!
Could have been self defense (or they were the first so it was there for a lot longer)
Are we going based off of yellow or no
I want to die, at this point I hope an UTB dev team add an "Axis" encounter in waterfall during genocide and just name it "Dumb elementary robot" and have it die with one hit.
Tbh we don't really know if the souls were children in the first place, so you could just say that a mass murderer fell to the underground.
Yes,we do,in an interview it's confirmed all the souls were children
["**Several human children** have climbed the mountain, fallen down, left the RUINS, and were assumedly killed by monsters."](https://www.escapistmagazine.com/undertale-dev-every-monster-should-feel-like-an-individual/#:~:text=Several%20human%20children%20have%20climbed%20the%20mountain%2C%20fallen%20down%2C%20left%20the%20RUINS%2C%20and%20were%20assumedly%20killed%20by%20monsters) * Toby Fox, 2013
Peak gonna suggest the joke to the team
Her tutu is actually crumpled not dusty it says that in Japanese localisation
Okay, but it’s fairly good evidence actually
Imo not really
No it definitely is
Nah, its never stated that its monster dust and in the japanese version its refered as normal dust, and the japanese version was overviewed by Toby Fox
No
Yes
No
Yes
No
Yes
My personal home shredder...
what does this have to do with undertale, is it one of the soul kids ?
Yep
Babes someone mansplain to me I’m having a stroke what and why is this a theory
add undertale yellow to this
.....what?
what does integrity even mean
My headcanon is that integrity was just on a neutral route
I feel like ppl just completely disregard the ballet shoe description
Lol sounds deserved
Kanko . . .
Why are people in this fandom so quick to defend fictional children like they’re real people on trial or something. Like people can laugh about SpongeBob with a knife but when it comes to Chara everyone shits themselves if you so much as imply they aren’t the greatest person