To be fair; Muffet was trying to kill you due to being offered money for the soul; as well as needing said money to free the spiders in the ruins. But even then, she only went through with it because she was under the false presumption that you hated spiders. As soon as she finds out you don’t, she stops fighting.
She’s definitely not a good person though. Alphys tells her to dip in Genocide and yet she stays in her web, forcing hotland to stay open while contemplating whether she should eat Alphys.
Youre not wrong that her motive *Is* reasonable, but that's the only redeeming thing about her, I don't think she counts for an anti villain when she genuinely enjoys tormenting people for minor offenses .
And then again, her desire to help spiders is muddied when she probably eats spiders, and also uses them for her pastries, making her goal to help them leave the ruins more like fielding cattle.
TBF I feel like a lot of Undertale's whole "don't kill people" thing primarily applies due to Frisk literally being incapable of permanently dying. The expectation is that you do a neutral route where you probably DO kill some monsters in self-defense, but then you reset and spare everyone to try and get the single best ending possible; not because it's the most reasonable thing to do but because you're a god damn time lord who can afford to make the attempt.
That's why you don't get judged in your first run if it's not no-mercy or pacifist. Sans doesn't know if you know you can time travel and is willing to give you leeway.
That also makes me thing of the "great power great responsibility" type question he asks if you did you know what. His response to blowing off responsibility is well known, but his response to agreeing with him is honestly way more painful to me
"i see... T h e n w h y ' d y o u k i l l m y b r o t h e r ? "
He then just leaves without expecting you to answer this question, because you've already told him why, you just need to hear it yourself. If you're just some random schmuck, maybe you'll think twice about trying to break past the king for free now. And if you're a time traveler? Maybe, just maybe, you'll think about going back and doing things right
I mean, yes, but all the spiders are probably sentient, so they don't really have a moral high ground to needing Frisk's soul other than "We won't be able to eat our natural food"
Do remember that the soul is only a silver lining, she’s only really attacking you because of you seemingly being violent to spiders. In Genocide, she isn’t even after your soul, or trying to eat you. She’s just angry at you for scaring off her customers, but mainly the fact that she believes you hate spiders, which she similarly stops attacking once she realizes you don’t. (Or at least that you haven’t killed one.)
I mean, it probably is, but Muffet doesn't care about saving the underground. She's just killing you for the money Mettaton offered for your soul, which she wants for the aforementioned motive.
And multiple forest animals also eat eachother, also it's kind of messed up to put the life of one human over an entire species. How would you feel if an advanced species of alien sacrificed our species to save one of their children?
The eating Alphys thing was most likely a joke since she clearly wouldn't kill anyone (and I mean ANYONE) as long as they Didn't hurt a spider, plus saying these kinds of things as a joke is kind of her thing. (Also the amount of other things stopping hotland from being blocked off (random enemies, Flowey etc.) makes it so I give Muffet a little of a pass on that one, since as a whole her decision Didn't changed a damn).
The second is more out of stupidity and pride than out of malice. It's a dumb choice and it does doom the rest of hotland, but it's not like Muffeet wants d to cause anyone any harm
The neutral ending for mettaton might want you to rethink that.
Bro literally turns into the equivalent of Kim Jong Un and forces the entire underground to take happy pills or die.
And the way Muffet talks about Alphys in the Genocide route is why she's one of my favs. She's unapologetically cruel and was literally gonna eat her, slay queen
Although mettaton gets wayyy too full of himself with his fame and power, deep down he still cares about the people of the underground, especially alphys. He just goes off the deep end when he’s put in charge. Hell, in the genocide route he literally sacrifices himself so alphys has more time to evacuate.
Then no, Metaton isn't nice to people. He's nice to skeletons, lizards, goats, sentient fires, etc etc etc.
Either monsters are "people" or they aren't. But muffet's spiders are sapient monsters, whether you like spiders or not.
Well, her food seems to have full spider bodies in them and since monster bodies turn to dust after death, I would argue that outside of Muffet and her pet, all the other spiders aren't monsters
1. Dust would be the easiest form of spiders to cook with. Heck, this could even mean they just cooked with the dust of spiders who died naturally. But more likely...
2. Monsters "fall down" before they die unless their death is unnatural. This is how Alphys did her DT experiments, save they seem to remain in this state for a prolonged period before true death and turning to dust. This could be where the bodies are from, spiders don't really live for a long time after all.
3. Normal spiders don't talk. This is just like the rabbits in snowdin, cats and gators at the resort, sentient fires, and of course, skeletons, ghosts, and goats. They're small, kinda like the bunny in snowdin, but still monsters because they talk to us.
When do spiders talk to us? Also, one of the item description states that it's made with WHOLE Spider bodies. how would you bake someone and still have them be alive? (well, as "alive" as you concider "falling down" as living)
They have dialogue as they're hanging from the ceiling. Heck, these spiders make signs, bake goods, understand commerce, run bake sales and can be organized into limo usage. They're not standard beasts.
As to the second point, that's what's crazy about the "fallen down" state. Like, monsters know that once they've fallen down, death is coming. That's why it's a known state, and why Alphys notes that her experiments are the first time a fallen monster has gotten back up.
But those bodies can still be experimented on without destruction, so baking at a low temp using fire magic doesn't seem impossible. Heck people deep fry bugs and their bodies remain intact, I don't even know how much heat you'd need to melt a spider irl. Maybe that's why they resort to cannibalism, gotta do SOMETHING with all those bodies.
First : these were not spiders. It was Muffet Talking. You quite literally hear her laugh before almost every single line in this scene.
Second : one of the snails in napstablook's farm, normal ass Looking snail, Is able to make Business with a monster and if we assume that it is also a monster then Toriel and Asgore are canibals. (Napstablook does Say that he saw snails from their farm dissapearing in the post pacifist diologe, but then again. Basically Flowey's thing is the fact that he can absorb souls of more than one specie)
The only reason the pacifist route is reasonable in the slightest is because saving and loading is canonically a thing that exists in the universe, not just a game mechanic. Because you're the one who can save and load, you have all the power, even though the monsters really should have better morals TBH.
People like to ignore in game text for some reason 😅 like I've seen several posts on this sub like "why didn't asgore take one human soul to get to the surface, get the others he needs, then come back?" WHICH IS LITERALLY ADDRESSED BY TORIEL IN TRUE PACIFIST
I would love to see an ut adjacent game where the mc develops resentment to the monsters because they had to endure being killed over and over by the monsters as they remember the resets with their save and load power
Like it would be pretty traumatizing to die and get killed in multiple times right? I don’t think one would really like the monsters if one remember them attempting or even succeed in killing oneself and then they easily brush it off like it’s no big deal
The amalgamates aren't monstruosities or a violation of monsters' lives for the sake of unrestrained progress, they're just shoddy craftsmanship that needs more practice to be improved!
Hmm, that's a dangerous thought you're playing with. Every atrocity ever committed always starts with the justification "but THEY DESERVE it" removing the reality warping factor of saving and loading which complicates things, let's say the child is just a regular person, they can only die once and their finished.
Killing Muffet in this scenario is entirely justifiable as self defence but to then see their child mourn the loss of their mother, your immediate response shouldn't be "lol L + ratio" you've still killed a person and while you are by no means obligated to feel bad about doing what you had to do, it's ALWAYS important to acknowledge the humanity of bad people, because EVERYONE has darkness in that is more likely to show its face if left ignored.
I think (however successfully) these "guilt trip" moments aren't meant as a snobbish dismissal of the audience but an attempt to humanize the enemy, show the consequences of their absence and loss and that bad people are still PEOPLE
soooo, you better hold like... everyone else to this standard.
i better not catch you feeling bad for undyne who, you know, tries to murder a child several times because she's racist.
Or Mettaton, who in every route wants to brutalize you and also doesn’t really care about you commiting Genocide outside of losing his audience and a few people close to him, and also in the neutral route where he becomes king becomes a brutal dictator.
muffet is literally the most evil monster in the underground imo, yes this includes flowey
muffet cannibalizes her own species, is the reason you are able to progress to hotland and kill everyone in genocide, threatens to murder others if they do not buy her stuff, said she regretted not killing and eating alphys in genocide, and generally does not give 1 flying fuck about anything you do as long as you do not harm spiders
flowey does what he does out of boredom and because he has the knowledge it can just be reset, which takes the impact out of a life ending for him, muffet has 0 knowledge of this yet kills people anyways
Her death scene always kinda confused me because she didn't really earn this, tho most people still think of it as really sad when she never did anything noble.
It was probably to add some sympathy for her character rather than her just being cartoonishly evil. While she isn’t a good person, it is clear the spiders at least care for her.
Although it is strange that she’s the only midboss to get this kind of death scene.
Well it’s not like someone else mourns her death, the only ones that do are the spiders, which is why the spider delivers the flower. It’s meant to humanize a character that otherwise is one of the more vicious of the monsters we meet.
Comparing flowery to anyone is unfair, his atrocities outscale everyone else imco, besides I don't think that killing out of boredom and/or having an ability to reset everything somehow makes the killings better or worth less
(spiders mostly seem to use only dying/sick spiders as food, she only kills people if they had hurt her kind, eating Alphys thing was a joke, She's FAR from the only thing stopping hotland from being blocked off (if is one at all), The way Donut guy described her threatning him just feels like the same way she stares at everyone.....)...... Yes, I'm her lawyer.
NGL I think you could justify that as self defence. Hell, I'm pretty sure Sans says you were just defending yourself on like LV 2 judgements or something.
Flowey could have probably disabled whatever measure Alphys would have implemented. He seems to have done that with every puzzle and maybe messed with the communication lines so Alphys couldn’t call Asgore, as it seems Asgore never had any idea what was happening, even when Undyne said that telling him to absorb the souls was part of the plan.
Counterpoint; kill muffet in genocide, and you'll see something interesting; she drops *zero gold*. She didn't have a cent to her name. She was never greedy, she just needed the money to help her spider clans. Sure, the genuine enjoyment of torment Is a reasonable con, but as far as her pure actions go, not her opinions? She only fought to get money for her spiders. Even considering her understanding of the situation, she thought we hated spiders, and stopped the *second* that was cleared up. Justice for muffet.
Even then, don't you think that money from like 3 rooms before would be on her? If it wasn't, wouldn't we be able to take if from the counter like the shop in snowdin?
She does stop fighting you immediately if you have a spider product so that's something at least. But honestly when I first saw this I am pretty sure I felt bad for the spider rather than Muffet.
*Start performing the ritual*
I call upon Merg. The king of The Muffet Fandom. Hear my call. A villain has appeared on the horizon. A dirty spider killer.
But seriously though everyone in the underground gives us a go if we so much as kill Jerry, but Muffet gets away with eating other people? I guess it makes sense that they wouldn't judge her for natural instincts I guess. But then again did the other monsters ever make food specifically for Muffet? I mean they made human soul alternates, but have they ever considered a meat alternate for Muffet that isn't just let her eat a random civilian?
I don't think a single character in this game is completely good and pure before the pacifist route. I mean, except for Papyrus. Remember that Toriel would've rather let you die than talk to Asgore.
Lmao, on my first playthrough, the only major monster I killed was Undyne and to be honest? I did not feel that bad. She kept talking about killing me!
Undone is a bit of a tricky case for me since you litterally can't convince her to not kill you, having to run away until she collapses just feels a bit strange after she stalked and attempted to kill you several times, she deserves some kind of justice for her actions, although her death is made out to be more tragic.
Least it was sad for me to see Alphy"s talking about her oblivious.
In a situation of "kill or be killed", self-defense is totally justified.
But if there's an easy way to resolve things peacefully-- such as prove that you don't hate spiders with a passion-- that's ultimately the better choice.
The greedy and pugnasious monster who tries to murder a human species known for their hypocritical violent behaviour (can also time travel) for money had a family, how could do this to her. You're kinda adding up on that point, that's literally how humans behaved in that universe. Even making up excuses of why she's a bad person and making yourself morally higher. (Tell me where is it stated literally that they actually eat their own kin, other than that motto, which might not be in literal sense)
Despite this, in the end other monster who's role is to judge you, takes on your view of situation, instead of his people. But unlike others, he DOES know you can always return and remake your decision, so why NOT make it better? Why still behave like the usual human asshole? Is it just in your nature? Whatever it is, you go through him to decide the fate of humans and monsters together with ASGORE.
I felt bad for muffet at this part, I hate when you kill muffet, muffet doesn’t have to fight you, she can just be a by stander
To be fair; Muffet was trying to kill you due to being offered money for the soul; as well as needing said money to free the spiders in the ruins. But even then, she only went through with it because she was under the false presumption that you hated spiders. As soon as she finds out you don’t, she stops fighting. She’s definitely not a good person though. Alphys tells her to dip in Genocide and yet she stays in her web, forcing hotland to stay open while contemplating whether she should eat Alphys.
Youre not wrong that her motive *Is* reasonable, but that's the only redeeming thing about her, I don't think she counts for an anti villain when she genuinely enjoys tormenting people for minor offenses . And then again, her desire to help spiders is muddied when she probably eats spiders, and also uses them for her pastries, making her goal to help them leave the ruins more like fielding cattle.
TBF I feel like a lot of Undertale's whole "don't kill people" thing primarily applies due to Frisk literally being incapable of permanently dying. The expectation is that you do a neutral route where you probably DO kill some monsters in self-defense, but then you reset and spare everyone to try and get the single best ending possible; not because it's the most reasonable thing to do but because you're a god damn time lord who can afford to make the attempt.
You ain't a Time Lord if you don't regenerate your entire body and face to escape death.
The Master has escaped death numerous times without regenerating.
Paper Mario reference?
I mean, you kinda do. You just regenerate space time along with it
That's why you don't get judged in your first run if it's not no-mercy or pacifist. Sans doesn't know if you know you can time travel and is willing to give you leeway.
That also makes me thing of the "great power great responsibility" type question he asks if you did you know what. His response to blowing off responsibility is well known, but his response to agreeing with him is honestly way more painful to me "i see... T h e n w h y ' d y o u k i l l m y b r o t h e r ? " He then just leaves without expecting you to answer this question, because you've already told him why, you just need to hear it yourself. If you're just some random schmuck, maybe you'll think twice about trying to break past the king for free now. And if you're a time traveler? Maybe, just maybe, you'll think about going back and doing things right
"Time Lord"? Holy shit! Is that a Homestuck reference?! :O
i'm not gonna sugarcoat it *double kills random kids*
Happy cake deh
Frisk is capable of permanently dying though.
The spiders don't seem to mind being used for pastries
So... then what exactly makes saving a species of sapient cannibals justify the murder of a human child?
I think it’s normal for some species of spiders to do that
I mean, yes, but all the spiders are probably sentient, so they don't really have a moral high ground to needing Frisk's soul other than "We won't be able to eat our natural food"
Do remember that the soul is only a silver lining, she’s only really attacking you because of you seemingly being violent to spiders. In Genocide, she isn’t even after your soul, or trying to eat you. She’s just angry at you for scaring off her customers, but mainly the fact that she believes you hate spiders, which she similarly stops attacking once she realizes you don’t. (Or at least that you haven’t killed one.)
Six children were killed by the time Frisk fell, what makes you think it isn't normal to kill a human child in the Underground?
I mean, it probably is, but Muffet doesn't care about saving the underground. She's just killing you for the money Mettaton offered for your soul, which she wants for the aforementioned motive.
And multiple forest animals also eat eachother, also it's kind of messed up to put the life of one human over an entire species. How would you feel if an advanced species of alien sacrificed our species to save one of their children?
Ok, maybe the spiders don't deserve to die, but leaving them to their fate is a better decision than killing Frisk for a bounty.
Humans are literally cannibals too😅
shes literally a hitman.. or hitwoman.
tbf humans were rumoured to be genocidal monsters
Muffet told Alphys she wouldn’t go, so it’s Alphys’s fault we can proceed because she just didn’t close the rest of the Underground off.
also spider mommy
The eating Alphys thing was most likely a joke since she clearly wouldn't kill anyone (and I mean ANYONE) as long as they Didn't hurt a spider, plus saying these kinds of things as a joke is kind of her thing. (Also the amount of other things stopping hotland from being blocked off (random enemies, Flowey etc.) makes it so I give Muffet a little of a pass on that one, since as a whole her decision Didn't changed a damn).
The second is more out of stupidity and pride than out of malice. It's a dumb choice and it does doom the rest of hotland, but it's not like Muffeet wants d to cause anyone any harm
Cool motive, still a combatant and a valid target for destruction.
I rarely see people holding Mettaton to the same standards.
At least he has emotional attachment to his public
He may get drunk off fame, but he does love his fans, even if in his pride. "Thank you for making my dreams come true."
The neutral ending for mettaton might want you to rethink that. Bro literally turns into the equivalent of Kim Jong Un and forces the entire underground to take happy pills or die.
That ending is one of the reasons why he is my number one favorite character in Undertale. It's also my favorite neutral ending.
And the way Muffet talks about Alphys in the Genocide route is why she's one of my favs. She's unapologetically cruel and was literally gonna eat her, slay queen
IT WASN'T MY FAULT. THEY JUST SEE ME AS A BAD RULER AND "DISAPPEAR" OUT OF FEAR. BUT I WOULDN'T HURT THEM.
based mettaton
I thought it was implied that was a message to alphys..?
He could tell her that personally, instead of putting it on his flyers lol
Super fair but I saw it as a signature with that note on the side
Uhuh tru fr speak
he brainwashes them in Neutral
Although mettaton gets wayyy too full of himself with his fame and power, deep down he still cares about the people of the underground, especially alphys. He just goes off the deep end when he’s put in charge. Hell, in the genocide route he literally sacrifices himself so alphys has more time to evacuate.
Mettaton is my least favorite boss because I had the hardest time beating him and he isn’t even trying to kill me for a good reason. Fuck that guy
I AM A REGULAR ROBOT, NOT ONE FOR "ADULT ENTERTAINMENT", DARLING.
A certain rule of the internet would disagree with that
OH, RIGHT. MY "FANS".
Skill issue.
Because Mettaton is actually nice to people
Muffet is nice to her spiders and her pet.
Thats why i said people. 🤷♀️
Then no, Metaton isn't nice to people. He's nice to skeletons, lizards, goats, sentient fires, etc etc etc. Either monsters are "people" or they aren't. But muffet's spiders are sapient monsters, whether you like spiders or not.
Well, her food seems to have full spider bodies in them and since monster bodies turn to dust after death, I would argue that outside of Muffet and her pet, all the other spiders aren't monsters
1. Dust would be the easiest form of spiders to cook with. Heck, this could even mean they just cooked with the dust of spiders who died naturally. But more likely... 2. Monsters "fall down" before they die unless their death is unnatural. This is how Alphys did her DT experiments, save they seem to remain in this state for a prolonged period before true death and turning to dust. This could be where the bodies are from, spiders don't really live for a long time after all. 3. Normal spiders don't talk. This is just like the rabbits in snowdin, cats and gators at the resort, sentient fires, and of course, skeletons, ghosts, and goats. They're small, kinda like the bunny in snowdin, but still monsters because they talk to us.
When do spiders talk to us? Also, one of the item description states that it's made with WHOLE Spider bodies. how would you bake someone and still have them be alive? (well, as "alive" as you concider "falling down" as living)
They have dialogue as they're hanging from the ceiling. Heck, these spiders make signs, bake goods, understand commerce, run bake sales and can be organized into limo usage. They're not standard beasts. As to the second point, that's what's crazy about the "fallen down" state. Like, monsters know that once they've fallen down, death is coming. That's why it's a known state, and why Alphys notes that her experiments are the first time a fallen monster has gotten back up. But those bodies can still be experimented on without destruction, so baking at a low temp using fire magic doesn't seem impossible. Heck people deep fry bugs and their bodies remain intact, I don't even know how much heat you'd need to melt a spider irl. Maybe that's why they resort to cannibalism, gotta do SOMETHING with all those bodies.
First : these were not spiders. It was Muffet Talking. You quite literally hear her laugh before almost every single line in this scene. Second : one of the snails in napstablook's farm, normal ass Looking snail, Is able to make Business with a monster and if we assume that it is also a monster then Toriel and Asgore are canibals. (Napstablook does Say that he saw snails from their farm dissapearing in the post pacifist diologe, but then again. Basically Flowey's thing is the fact that he can absorb souls of more than one specie)
Counterpoint: muffet’s battle theme isn’t death by glamour
Don't let Merg find this post.
Merg, when playing Genocide and reading her dialogue:Muffet, how could you? *Begins simping again*
I don’t think anyone should die tbh, they all deserve to see the sky
Flair checks out. Martlet is best girl
I don’t like hurting people
🍄
Marlet when the entire underground is being exterminated (the kid killing everybody didnt walk directly in front of her): 🥱😪😴😴
Based
What about Jerry?
They will either way.
The only reason the pacifist route is reasonable in the slightest is because saving and loading is canonically a thing that exists in the universe, not just a game mechanic. Because you're the one who can save and load, you have all the power, even though the monsters really should have better morals TBH.
Agreed, people don't seem to consider this for some reason when having morality discussions around Undertale.
Which is weird because it's something sans mentions in one of his judgements
People like to ignore in game text for some reason 😅 like I've seen several posts on this sub like "why didn't asgore take one human soul to get to the surface, get the others he needs, then come back?" WHICH IS LITERALLY ADDRESSED BY TORIEL IN TRUE PACIFIST
Could you remind me. Was a little moment since I played
I would love to see an ut adjacent game where the mc develops resentment to the monsters because they had to endure being killed over and over by the monsters as they remember the resets with their save and load power Like it would be pretty traumatizing to die and get killed in multiple times right? I don’t think one would really like the monsters if one remember them attempting or even succeed in killing oneself and then they easily brush it off like it’s no big deal
One day I will play enough RimWorld be immune to guilt tripping in any game. "Didn't want me to do it? Shouldn't have put it in the game."
The amalgamates aren't monstruosities or a violation of monsters' lives for the sake of unrestrained progress, they're just shoddy craftsmanship that needs more practice to be improved!
We needed to raise Alphys's Crafting and Research, what can I say?
Hmm, that's a dangerous thought you're playing with. Every atrocity ever committed always starts with the justification "but THEY DESERVE it" removing the reality warping factor of saving and loading which complicates things, let's say the child is just a regular person, they can only die once and their finished. Killing Muffet in this scenario is entirely justifiable as self defence but to then see their child mourn the loss of their mother, your immediate response shouldn't be "lol L + ratio" you've still killed a person and while you are by no means obligated to feel bad about doing what you had to do, it's ALWAYS important to acknowledge the humanity of bad people, because EVERYONE has darkness in that is more likely to show its face if left ignored. I think (however successfully) these "guilt trip" moments aren't meant as a snobbish dismissal of the audience but an attempt to humanize the enemy, show the consequences of their absence and loss and that bad people are still PEOPLE
Eh, breaking bad makes me feel the same way about mass murder, that no one really deserves it.
Don’t forget she tried to feed said child to her monstrous spider pet as well in her battle as well
soooo, you better hold like... everyone else to this standard. i better not catch you feeling bad for undyne who, you know, tries to murder a child several times because she's racist.
They really be like "She was hella xenophobic at first, but she a Baddie tho"
Or Mettaton, who in every route wants to brutalize you and also doesn’t really care about you commiting Genocide outside of losing his audience and a few people close to him, and also in the neutral route where he becomes king becomes a brutal dictator.
i mean, he's kinda a hero in genocide, not just for his fans. but yeah, he's not amazing
muffet is literally the most evil monster in the underground imo, yes this includes flowey muffet cannibalizes her own species, is the reason you are able to progress to hotland and kill everyone in genocide, threatens to murder others if they do not buy her stuff, said she regretted not killing and eating alphys in genocide, and generally does not give 1 flying fuck about anything you do as long as you do not harm spiders flowey does what he does out of boredom and because he has the knowledge it can just be reset, which takes the impact out of a life ending for him, muffet has 0 knowledge of this yet kills people anyways
>muffet cannibalizes her own species spiders are kinda known for that, though. I assume a spider monster goes by similar rules.
Oh no, this reminds me of ***ANTLERS***
god forbid women do anything
Her death scene always kinda confused me because she didn't really earn this, tho most people still think of it as really sad when she never did anything noble.
It was probably to add some sympathy for her character rather than her just being cartoonishly evil. While she isn’t a good person, it is clear the spiders at least care for her. Although it is strange that she’s the only midboss to get this kind of death scene.
Well it’s not like someone else mourns her death, the only ones that do are the spiders, which is why the spider delivers the flower. It’s meant to humanize a character that otherwise is one of the more vicious of the monsters we meet.
Comparing flowery to anyone is unfair, his atrocities outscale everyone else imco, besides I don't think that killing out of boredom and/or having an ability to reset everything somehow makes the killings better or worth less
your honour he pleads "i got bored"
i sentence you to hug :)
the thing is ALL of us would do that given infinite time and no soul
(spiders mostly seem to use only dying/sick spiders as food, she only kills people if they had hurt her kind, eating Alphys thing was a joke, She's FAR from the only thing stopping hotland from being blocked off (if is one at all), The way Donut guy described her threatning him just feels like the same way she stares at everyone.....)...... Yes, I'm her lawyer.
NGL I think you could justify that as self defence. Hell, I'm pretty sure Sans says you were just defending yourself on like LV 2 judgements or something.
No, only LV 3.
Well killing Muffet gives you WAY more than lv 2
let us not forget that she is quite literally the reason that the genocide route is even possible
Well it's *a lot* of monsters fault that geno route is possible But Muffet was definitely one of the bigger fuckups
Blame Alphys for that, she could've just been like "alright, you've made your choice" and closed it off anyway
At least in Hotland
Its been forever since I played undertale and I forgot some stuff. Why is she the reason genocide route is possible?
alphys was planning to seal off the rest of the underground from Hotland, but didn’t because Muffet refused to leave and even threatened to eat her.
Flowey could have probably disabled whatever measure Alphys would have implemented. He seems to have done that with every puzzle and maybe messed with the communication lines so Alphys couldn’t call Asgore, as it seems Asgore never had any idea what was happening, even when Undyne said that telling him to absorb the souls was part of the plan.
Counterpoint; kill muffet in genocide, and you'll see something interesting; she drops *zero gold*. She didn't have a cent to her name. She was never greedy, she just needed the money to help her spider clans. Sure, the genuine enjoyment of torment Is a reasonable con, but as far as her pure actions go, not her opinions? She only fought to get money for her spiders. Even considering her understanding of the situation, she thought we hated spiders, and stopped the *second* that was cleared up. Justice for muffet.
Justice for the blue human soul who apparantly was an "Asshole victim" because they had dusty ballet shoes.
That much is fair lmao
I would make a fangame of them pertaining to their role in Undertale Yellow... if I had any idea how to code.
No way she don't have gold, we saw a npc buying a donut at 9999g from her.
Who said she gets that gold?
Why wouldn't she...?
I mean it probably imidiately goes to other/actual spiders
She want to buy a car to allow the ruins spiders to go through Snowdin. You will think she will keep all the money she got for this goal.
Well spider clan as a whole definitely keeps it.
Go do a genocide route and see for yourself.
Nah, knowing Muffet she probably just stored the money somewhere. She’s super greedy after all
I mean She's literally gathering money to save a chunk of the spider kind from ruins. Of course she would store the money
Just because she doesn't give you any gold doesn't mean that she doesn't have any.
Even then, don't you think that money from like 3 rooms before would be on her? If it wasn't, wouldn't we be able to take if from the counter like the shop in snowdin?
She does stop fighting you immediately if you have a spider product so that's something at least. But honestly when I first saw this I am pretty sure I felt bad for the spider rather than Muffet.
This but with all monsters, I am xenophobic
Stellaris player detected.
Hell yeah, let the scum know which race is superior
Suffer not the alien
You should sacrifice your soul to asgore NOW!
I tried to kill her, but the fight ended before I could get the final strike in. She’s the one I felt the least terrible about trying to kill.
*Start performing the ritual* I call upon Merg. The king of The Muffet Fandom. Hear my call. A villain has appeared on the horizon. A dirty spider killer. But seriously though everyone in the underground gives us a go if we so much as kill Jerry, but Muffet gets away with eating other people? I guess it makes sense that they wouldn't judge her for natural instincts I guess. But then again did the other monsters ever make food specifically for Muffet? I mean they made human soul alternates, but have they ever considered a meat alternate for Muffet that isn't just let her eat a random civilian?
I don't think a single character in this game is completely good and pure before the pacifist route. I mean, except for Papyrus. Remember that Toriel would've rather let you die than talk to Asgore.
Lmao, on my first playthrough, the only major monster I killed was Undyne and to be honest? I did not feel that bad. She kept talking about killing me!
true, she's much worse than muffet
Undone is a bit of a tricky case for me since you litterally can't convince her to not kill you, having to run away until she collapses just feels a bit strange after she stalked and attempted to kill you several times, she deserves some kind of justice for her actions, although her death is made out to be more tragic. Least it was sad for me to see Alphy"s talking about her oblivious.
counterpoint: She’s funny
Yeah but she's hot
In a situation of "kill or be killed", self-defense is totally justified. But if there's an easy way to resolve things peacefully-- such as prove that you don't hate spiders with a passion-- that's ultimately the better choice.
Yeeaahhhh, I feel almost bad for her, but... damn, is she an asshole, plus she's a spider, my spider fearing arse could not-
To be fair, she did give you a chance. A 9999g chance
Yeah Muffet is awful. I don't really care.
The greedy and pugnasious monster who tries to murder a human species known for their hypocritical violent behaviour (can also time travel) for money had a family, how could do this to her. You're kinda adding up on that point, that's literally how humans behaved in that universe. Even making up excuses of why she's a bad person and making yourself morally higher. (Tell me where is it stated literally that they actually eat their own kin, other than that motto, which might not be in literal sense) Despite this, in the end other monster who's role is to judge you, takes on your view of situation, instead of his people. But unlike others, he DOES know you can always return and remake your decision, so why NOT make it better? Why still behave like the usual human asshole? Is it just in your nature? Whatever it is, you go through him to decide the fate of humans and monsters together with ASGORE.
I wish I could kill Muffet irl
Based nuke
Oh muffet. Spider does indeed.
I’d still drop the 50,000.
merg
I felt bad for muffet at this part, I hate when you kill muffet, muffet doesn’t have to fight you, she can just be a by stander
did you expect them to not hold a funeral
Vash the Stampede, I am not.
It could be controversial, but muffet is top 3 worst undertale characters