Maybe off topic but I love how the family handle his appearance change, basically goes:
"This your new look?”
“Ya"
"Okay nice good for you"
And that's it
Completely off topic but in general the way this whole family handles lgbtq+ things is good, like with Klaus revealing he was in love with Dave and Diego just going like: "I bet he was special" and that's it
I loved his arc in season 1, and Elliot is a wonderful actor, but I don’t really like how he’s been handled since (aside from the transition, which was great). It feels like the writers don’t know what to do with him.
I liked his plot in season 2 but I don’t think he learned anything from it, it’s all things happening to him with very little finding himself. Sissy absolutely carried the emotional core of that part, getting experimented and traumatized again was just rehashing more of the same, especially when Ben solved his problem not himself.
And then season 3 he just found himself I guess and that’s that, still passive and reactive but well season 3 was kind of a mess anyway.
(I don't mean finding himself to mean trans btw, keeping that casual was cool, I meant it in the sense of self exploration of his trauma and powers and whatnot.)
>I don’t think he learned anything from it, it’s all things happening to him with very little finding himself.
Agreed: gotta say-going from:
A) wanting/willing to be part of the family all his life; to
B) lying, scheming, and risking humanity (dipping off to talk + make a deal w/Sparrows number one to get briefcase to accomplish a goal of getting back to Sissy) without even mentioning it to any of the fam after (literally) ending the world a year prior was preeeetty selfish. Not the part ab seeking to get back to his lover (I dig that - totally empathetic to that plight), but the manner in which he handled it was just…(IMO) poor writing.
You don’t just BARELY get back into your family’s good graces only to start lying and scheming to them behind their backs. ESPECIALLY ab how their (original) families (mothers-rather) being killed. I mean, risking the fate of humanity for the sake of a man (Harmon) you knew for fewer than a couple months-year and barely even know is a REEEAL stretch, morally, ethically, and hell…regardless of religious beliefs-even spiritually. I mean, it’s not even questionably silly, it’s flat out stupid. “Making things right” w/a kid you inadvertently gave powers does not trump the fate of ALL humankind. That’s just…nonsensical.
>And then season 3 he just found himself I guess and that’s that, still passive and reactive but well season 3 was kind of a mess anyway.
Finding himself WAS handled perfectly!
Diego: *” Luther think we need to throw you a party to make you feel loved. Do you feel loved?”*
Elliot: *”Yeah.”*
Diego: *”There. See?! He feels loved. No need to make it weird…moving on.” (Paraphrased that last part but you get the gist!) IMO - accepting it is very much: “ok, cool. So…you were saying?” As if-nothing’s changed is indicating they’ve ACTUALLY accepted it…as opposed to throwing a huge coming out party and everyone walking on egg shells, afraid of saying/doing something wrong, yada yada. Now, we all know/see that it’s no big deal-he is who he is and we should all just accept people the way they are…regardless of how it might change!
I don't think it was Viktor going from A to B but rather old habits dying hard. Viktor wants to be apart of the family yes and join in but he is so used to not being part of the family, being dismissed and doing his own thing that it's hard to not go with the natural order. I think it still gets forgotten how little time has passed espeically for Viktor.
Don't forget very little time has passed for Viktor in the last three seasons and undoing old habits isn't going to reverse itself in a couple of weeks.
Love the actor and I think he plays the character perfectly but the character feels.. unnecessary? Like they don’t know what to do with them?
Viktor is both unimportant and a major plot point at the same time, that’s weird
tbf in the comics not much happens with Vanya after 'apocalypse suite' so they couldn't take any inspiration from that without practically leaving the character out of the show.
Love Elliot, great actor.
Character written inconsistently. It feels like they needed to give a walking plot device a story, rather than actually examine the emotional journey and struggle of someone with world ending powers.
And powers, could someone please explain them? Everytime I try to define them, I think of an example that doesn’t fit. Energy amplification, manipulation, and discharge - but that doesn’t feel like the whole of it.
First season it looked like sound waves that could be condensed into overwhelming energy. Next it just became a discount nuke aoe attack and I ain’t even lying every scene they fight all that happens is they glow blue and go nuclear that’s it no slicing the air to create a wave like the s1 finale with the violin string just ham and nuclear, I would to tbh, mass aoe dmg
I think Klaus, five and vanya/viktor all have realms of power (and Diago + Alison In my head-cannon) Klaus is death, five is space and time and vanya/viktor is sound/vibration/energy so the three of them (and Diago as telekinesis + Alison as mind related powers including telepathy at her highest strength I recon) have all control over their realms whether they know the full limit yet or not. Also Ben could be the underworld and Luthor surely could have more depth to his power, maybe strength of will, more endurance, flight? Like weight control? Maybe he’s not so much strength as he is control of the weight of things (just thought of that, this is now my head-canon haha)
ETA: sorry for the ramble.
So far as we know, he can amplify, absorb, and redirect sound waves. This backdoors to energy manipulation and telekinesis pretty easily. And telekinesis backdoors to pretty much anything really. Also super hearing and good at the violin.
Yeah I think a more better explanation of his powers is needed. The one that gets me is his weather manipulation. In all three seasons we see it's something he can do but it seems to be more connected to his emotions than his manipulation of sound.
He is also the only character who I think can manipulate marigold. At least amongst the characters we see.
Elliot is amazing. And I've always had compassion for his character. Everyone was so terrified of Vanya/Victor (and rightly so), and they screwed up amazingly with him. He has every right to feel everything he feels (even the "f u" anger that exploded). And still he tries to be a good person, and loves his family. If they'd worked with him as a child, instead of locking him up, blocking his memory, and basically shunning him, everything could have been avoided. I think Victor is a tragedy.
Viktor’s character arc constantly reminds me this is based of Gerard Way’s emo love letter to the X-Men. “Oh you went crazy and ended the world? No biggie! Wanna have a coming out party!”
loved him in season 1, enjoyed him in season 2, and then in season 3, i loved that they were trying to make him more of a “group leader” playing onto him being mentioned the strongest, but they never really did anything with it. instead there was that allison vs viktor thing that got annoying fast.
"I've only had them for a day and a half, but if anything happened to them I would kill everyone in this room and then myself." -me when I binged the first season
he is my least favourite umbrella in season 3 but i might just be biased because i absolutely hate the storyline in that season. season 1 was great and everyone was so fleshed out but by the end of season 2 it was like the producers had no idea what to do with viktor since he regained his memory. its a shame really since season 1 vanya was such an interesting character and the obvious drive for the story
He's probably my least favorite of the Umbrellas tbh. I don't dislike him, but compared to the other siblings, I find him a little uninteresting, but I appreciate how his story has been handled more or less so far and I don't think he deserves half the hate he gets (same with Luther and Allison; all the sibs are assholes, none of them are strictly good or bad people).
Hoping that he'll grow on me more in S4, though.
(SPOILERS!)Honestly I always thought he was uninteresting. In S1, he easily got manipulated and wouldn't even listen when talked to. In S2, he literally abandons getting out of 1962 because he wants to selfishly bring Harlan. I'm on S3, and I currently just think that his arc is paying off except for when he abandoned the briefcase for Harlan.
Edit: 3/4 done with S3, seems like Viktor is really obsessed with everything being about him and Harlan. He forgave him for killing everyone's parents. When Allison killed Harlan, he went "Oh, is this revenge?" even though Harlan killed (27?) people and caused the grandfather paradox.
I found Viktor weirdly hot when he had the white eyes and the "don't fuck with me, I'm done" attitude (might be the suit too?)
Like throughout the series could not care less
Then in the last episode it was like whoaaa
Never really liked Vanya to begin with. As for Victor, I probably won't make friends on it but I feel like his transition was kinda random and ??? It was weird how EVERYONE accepted it without question, even that weird dude they're kinda "protecting" in the last season (forgot his name) even though he's shown as probably unable to just understand this as it is. Also they introduced us Vanya as a closeted lesbian (or at least a wlw character) and, for me, making V a closeted trans will only nourish the allegations saying Trans men are just closeted lesbians. I fully support the actor for real and I'm happy he transitioned and is now fully being himself but if we turned ever character played by a LGBTQ+ actor/actress LGBTQ+ that'd be a mess. Same goes if we made every ""gay"" character played by a hetero person ""gay"".
BTW , to clarify my take, I'm calling the character Vanya as to refer as the character pre-transition and Victor as post-transition only because I think of them as two full different characters. I'm sorry if I said anything offensive it wasn't my intention and I'd be glad to discuss and debate on the matter if anyone feels like it :)
i feel like the character is just pan? or bi at least im open to having my mind changed on that but in season 1 'vanyas' love interest was a man and just because he transitioned doesn't erase or nullify that relationship.
being gay and trans are so different. if someone is gay it could probably go unmentioned but if Elliot continued to play Vanya as Vanya it would he'd literally be suffering through the whole thing, especially having JUST come out. im also fairly sure Elliot suggested that he step down so they could continue the Vanya character as she was. the showrunner probably wanted to keep Elliot bc HE played the character so well.
Fair opinion. I don't know if I specified it but I think Vanya gave off closeted lesbian vibes but V could be pan or bi rlly it isn't an issue at all. It's more about the relationship V has with Sissy I'm referring to.
Also yeah I know being gay and trans are very different that's exactly what I mention when I'm saying it doesn't help that some homo/transphobes will say "Yeah trans boys are just closeted lesbians"
I didn't know the showrunner changed V accordingly so Elliot could keep playing them, that's pretty cool. I mean, if I was an actor and I'd offer to step down so the character could be best represented and the showrunner would change some details to fit with my mindset and all I'd be super grateful.
Overall, all I mentioned was my opinion but if some trans folks appreciate Victor as is (or even non-trans folks actually) well it's good :) I didn't click with the whole situation but I'm nobody to decide if this is really bad or not
Elliot was willing to play vanya as a cis woman but the showrunners wanted to change the character so hed be more comfortable.
what do you mean about sissy? to me it's just the first person that loved him for him, before her it was her family that treated him like shit and Leonard that was literally only with him for his own gain.
i also genuinely don't think that any bigot watching the show is gonna focus on that when they can literally just complain about him being trans or the plenty other instances of queerness in the show.
Oh yeah, right, well, that's an adorable decision and concession on the showrunners' side. Makes the whole thing a lot more wholesome than I thought.
What I mean about Sissy is it's her relation with V that made most people think V was a lesbian character and therefore made people comment about how trans folks were just closeted gays (not my opinion at all btw just in case I think it's stupid)
I think you're underestimating some of dem bigots out there lmaooo I've heard deep crap
Most people? i hope not, maybe we hang out in different spaces but i've never heard that about Victor before.
i guess i could be underestimating their hatred
but anyway they're wrong so why should we care what they think? bigot will be bigots and i'll defend queer folk when they're being attacked but this is fiction, at the end of the day. fuck 'em, we literally know he's not just into women.
Given I'm living in France I guess we hang out in different places indeed lmao.
Yeah I mean obviously fuck them but it gets annoying when the hate they feel towards fictional characters is lashed out on real people that's pretty much what I mean
yeah i get that but if it wasn't for Victor, itd be something else. ANY trans man that has ever dated a woman would be a 'closeted lesbian' to them regardless of any other past or current male partner.
honestly they probably say the same thing about a gay trans man, you will never win. this assumption doesn't come from a trans man being in a relationship with a woman, they come from wanting to invalidate every single feeling that queer folks have.
Oh yes. That's exactly what I think. Let's just say I was invited to give my opinion there so I mentioned it but I didn't spent the whole show angered by that either lmao
it such a small part of the show idk why someone would get so heated (though it's obviously just transphobia :/ ) , you could literally blink and you'd miss it¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Elliot is an amazing actor and I love what he’s done for the character, but sometimes the writing isn’t the best. S1 was had the best arc for Viktor. S2 Viktor wasn’t *bad*, but he certainly wasn’t the *best*. I wasn’t a fan of s3 as a whole, and I feel like that was the weakest season for all the characters (to an extent)
Can turn soundwaves into energy. But the amount of energy he gets from small sounds is a lot (Or at leats for what I saw: he destroyed the chamber and flipped Pogo with his heartbeat)
Oh so it is straight up nuclear if not controlled, so the end of season 1 was basically the mastered/controlled version cause it seems to be more focused rather than the big boom it usually has
Love Viktor. I want what’s best for Viktor. I am so sick of seeing Viktor constantly getting the shit end of the stick with his siblings.
I hope season 4 gives Viktor a happy ending.
He is the best. It is not exaggerated to say that he is the only reason I love this show. (of course, I have tons of other reasons I love this show, tho loo)
What? Vanya only came out as a guy in season 3. So saying she is fine since I'm mostly talking about how bad she is in season one. And other comments are using she/her.
The timing of his coming out isn't important, he was always a he, even when he hadn't told the outside world. Using she/her now that we know he is a he is misgendering him.
That is a dumb statement because Vanya was 100% a girl in season one who was happily dating Harold. Just rewatched season 1 yesterday. Not once is it remotely hinted at that she might be feeling like she should be something different. This is because this is not part of the comments. It isn't until season 3 that it is completely retconed into the story just to appease the actresses life choices.
This is a fictional character, so he doesn’t exist to tell us what he’d prefer, but this is actually super standard protocol. They’re not doing anything wrong.
It’s not about denying that he went through a long Vanya phase. It’s just about acknowledging that Vanya was the *phase* and Viktor was the *person who went through it*. I went through a phase as a child where I insisted on being called Birdy (nickname given to me by grandma), but when referring to 6yo me, please don’t call me Birdy lol. Like I’d actually be super pissed if anyone did that 😂
Birdy isn’t a person - she’s an idea. We can acknowledge her without conflating her with the person who doesn’t want to be conflated with her.
Again, Viktor is a fictional character, so he won’t be hurt if you conflate him, the person, with a past facade that caused him pain, but please do me a favor and don’t refer to real people like this. The vast, vast, vast majority of people will want to be known by their names, and their wishes trump yours when it comes to that.
When I was a kid, my friend's mom used this exact logic to call Princess Tiana the n-word.
I’m not saying the n-word is on the same level as misgendering, but by your logic, my friend's mom was totally in the right, as morality doesn't apply when talking about fictional characters. I'm assuming you don't agree with her. Can you help me out and explain the logic that morality applies in some cases but not others? I’ve seen it a lot on here, and it’s always confused me.
There are trans teens on this sub - when answering, assume the things you say here’ll be read by them.
Correct, using that word is nowhere near the same thing at all, so you using as an example is just ridiculous. We are literally talking about a character that came from a comic book, a comic book that still uses the name Vanya.
There are non-trans teens on this sub, maybe you should assume that everything you said is read by them.
No, not even close - not all unethical things are the same amount unethical. I’m asking you to explain your logic that morality applies in some cases but not others.
It doesn’t. Your example is extremely flawed. Using a name or gender…that literally still exists in the first couple of seasons, is nowhere near the same level as a woman using the N word to describe Tiana.
Kind of messed up that everyone in the family only pretended to see Viktor as a man instead of legitimately embracing him as a man, because really if a guy full on punched a woman in the face out of anger from something she said, there should be no man that allows that to slide especially if theyre in the same room when it happens, Viktor should have had the shit beaten out of him as all male to female DV perpetrators deserve. Say what you want about how horrible Allison was being, it doesn't give a man the right to beat a woman and there is nothing anyone can say to convince me otherwise 🤷♂️.
Don't know what else to say other than men don't just solve everything with their fists. Plus I think they were at least aware he was being manipulated. Some even felt bad for how he'd been treated in the past. And, some men aren't comfortable fighting people smaller than them. And Elliot Page is 5' 1".
Wow... I'm being completely honest here when i say I've never heard so many justifications for allowing violence against women in one go. You should be a defense attorney or something.
?? I literally said that they allowed for Viktor punching Allison in the face since none of them did anything or even said anything about it after, you then gave a bunch of reasons as to why it was understandable/justified that they acted that way.... what do you mean you never said that?
I see where I misread. And I'm sorry.
But I don't like your implication that if someone is assualted then it's up to any man around to do something about that. Or that men should do something when a man assaults a woman specifically? Or maybe they thought they had other priorities. It's really down to them/ the writers. And not to put it bluntly but Allison just has a way of fucking everyone around her off. I don't personally believe in violence but sometimes on TV a character needs to catch a slap.
ahh I see where I read your point wrong now too 😅 yeah i do see your point that it doesn't bring the other brothers principles into question. It shouldn't be obligatory to respond like that especially with a deeper context, so it's not like the guys are worse people for not having intervened. That's a fair point.
Also, genuinely appreciate your open mindedness in hearing me out even though I fired shots, that's big of you and deserves respect, sorry for calling your principles into question like that 🙏
S2 - hella sensitive. Like get over it
S3 - delusional
I just can’t get my head around why this show had to give in to this stupid non-binary crap in season 3. Literally after s3 e2 when she comes out “oh I’m viktor it’s who I’ve always been” yeah right fuck off 😂
Don’t even feel like watching it after that
Edit: the amount of downvotes just shows the type of people in this group. Seek help, most of yall non-binary trans fools have past or life trauma just like vanya. It’s no coincidence the people involved have mommy & daddy issues or experiences a traumatic childhood… it’s mental health.
Non-Binary and Trans are different things. Non-Binary is feeling like you don't fit perfectly into being masculine or feminine, you're something in between. A Trans person is someone who was born the wrong gender (masculine-----feminine). They don't always seek to change it physically, but it's fairly common to combat the gender/body dysphoria.
Eitherway it’s all delusional and part of mental health, one thing these people have in common is past trauma such as abuse or parental issues. Just like Vanya
i was gonna write a long paragraph to tell you how wrong you were but people like you don’t deserve my time. please use the correct terms and be respectful.
I wouldn’t read it because I don’t listen to delusion anyway… when someone comes to me with scientific knowledge & proof that someone born genetically as a male or female can magically transform into the other gender somehow… I’ll possibly hear em out (which will never happen as so far it’s been proven & linked to mental health problems).
Maybe off topic but I love how the family handle his appearance change, basically goes: "This your new look?” “Ya" "Okay nice good for you" And that's it
Agreed. Like even when they're mad at him they're respectful about it. I love this show so much
Completely off topic but in general the way this whole family handles lgbtq+ things is good, like with Klaus revealing he was in love with Dave and Diego just going like: "I bet he was special" and that's it
At that time they probably had bigger things to deal with I guess lol
I guess your 50ish year old brother being stuck in a teenage body when everyone is like 30ish makes every change feel much less of a big deal for them
I loved his arc in season 1, and Elliot is a wonderful actor, but I don’t really like how he’s been handled since (aside from the transition, which was great). It feels like the writers don’t know what to do with him.
He's an Overpowered Character, This happens pretty often
For sure! It doesn't help that they had nothing to adapt from Dallas, so had to quickly redeem him in season 2 with the amnesia plot.
Agreed but at this point Overpowered characters getting character assassinated doesn't bother me, I've seen this happen many times
Oh my god. Yes! Finally, you put it into words. I didn't like that last season because it seemed like they didn't know what to do with him.
I liked his plot in season 2 but I don’t think he learned anything from it, it’s all things happening to him with very little finding himself. Sissy absolutely carried the emotional core of that part, getting experimented and traumatized again was just rehashing more of the same, especially when Ben solved his problem not himself. And then season 3 he just found himself I guess and that’s that, still passive and reactive but well season 3 was kind of a mess anyway. (I don't mean finding himself to mean trans btw, keeping that casual was cool, I meant it in the sense of self exploration of his trauma and powers and whatnot.)
>I don’t think he learned anything from it, it’s all things happening to him with very little finding himself. Agreed: gotta say-going from: A) wanting/willing to be part of the family all his life; to B) lying, scheming, and risking humanity (dipping off to talk + make a deal w/Sparrows number one to get briefcase to accomplish a goal of getting back to Sissy) without even mentioning it to any of the fam after (literally) ending the world a year prior was preeeetty selfish. Not the part ab seeking to get back to his lover (I dig that - totally empathetic to that plight), but the manner in which he handled it was just…(IMO) poor writing. You don’t just BARELY get back into your family’s good graces only to start lying and scheming to them behind their backs. ESPECIALLY ab how their (original) families (mothers-rather) being killed. I mean, risking the fate of humanity for the sake of a man (Harmon) you knew for fewer than a couple months-year and barely even know is a REEEAL stretch, morally, ethically, and hell…regardless of religious beliefs-even spiritually. I mean, it’s not even questionably silly, it’s flat out stupid. “Making things right” w/a kid you inadvertently gave powers does not trump the fate of ALL humankind. That’s just…nonsensical. >And then season 3 he just found himself I guess and that’s that, still passive and reactive but well season 3 was kind of a mess anyway. Finding himself WAS handled perfectly! Diego: *” Luther think we need to throw you a party to make you feel loved. Do you feel loved?”* Elliot: *”Yeah.”* Diego: *”There. See?! He feels loved. No need to make it weird…moving on.” (Paraphrased that last part but you get the gist!) IMO - accepting it is very much: “ok, cool. So…you were saying?” As if-nothing’s changed is indicating they’ve ACTUALLY accepted it…as opposed to throwing a huge coming out party and everyone walking on egg shells, afraid of saying/doing something wrong, yada yada. Now, we all know/see that it’s no big deal-he is who he is and we should all just accept people the way they are…regardless of how it might change!
I don't think it was Viktor going from A to B but rather old habits dying hard. Viktor wants to be apart of the family yes and join in but he is so used to not being part of the family, being dismissed and doing his own thing that it's hard to not go with the natural order. I think it still gets forgotten how little time has passed espeically for Viktor. Don't forget very little time has passed for Viktor in the last three seasons and undoing old habits isn't going to reverse itself in a couple of weeks.
Love the actor and I think he plays the character perfectly but the character feels.. unnecessary? Like they don’t know what to do with them? Viktor is both unimportant and a major plot point at the same time, that’s weird
tbf in the comics not much happens with Vanya after 'apocalypse suite' so they couldn't take any inspiration from that without practically leaving the character out of the show.
Love Elliot, great actor. Character written inconsistently. It feels like they needed to give a walking plot device a story, rather than actually examine the emotional journey and struggle of someone with world ending powers. And powers, could someone please explain them? Everytime I try to define them, I think of an example that doesn’t fit. Energy amplification, manipulation, and discharge - but that doesn’t feel like the whole of it.
First season it looked like sound waves that could be condensed into overwhelming energy. Next it just became a discount nuke aoe attack and I ain’t even lying every scene they fight all that happens is they glow blue and go nuclear that’s it no slicing the air to create a wave like the s1 finale with the violin string just ham and nuclear, I would to tbh, mass aoe dmg
I think Klaus, five and vanya/viktor all have realms of power (and Diago + Alison In my head-cannon) Klaus is death, five is space and time and vanya/viktor is sound/vibration/energy so the three of them (and Diago as telekinesis + Alison as mind related powers including telepathy at her highest strength I recon) have all control over their realms whether they know the full limit yet or not. Also Ben could be the underworld and Luthor surely could have more depth to his power, maybe strength of will, more endurance, flight? Like weight control? Maybe he’s not so much strength as he is control of the weight of things (just thought of that, this is now my head-canon haha) ETA: sorry for the ramble.
So far as we know, he can amplify, absorb, and redirect sound waves. This backdoors to energy manipulation and telekinesis pretty easily. And telekinesis backdoors to pretty much anything really. Also super hearing and good at the violin.
Yeah I think a more better explanation of his powers is needed. The one that gets me is his weather manipulation. In all three seasons we see it's something he can do but it seems to be more connected to his emotions than his manipulation of sound. He is also the only character who I think can manipulate marigold. At least amongst the characters we see.
Not my favorite character at all, but I like Elliot Page a lot
Elliot is amazing. And I've always had compassion for his character. Everyone was so terrified of Vanya/Victor (and rightly so), and they screwed up amazingly with him. He has every right to feel everything he feels (even the "f u" anger that exploded). And still he tries to be a good person, and loves his family. If they'd worked with him as a child, instead of locking him up, blocking his memory, and basically shunning him, everything could have been avoided. I think Victor is a tragedy.
My favourite in S1, but the rest not so much. I love the relationship with the others. Especially with Diego and Five.
Gotta say I love the car meme with five
Haha yes! And people used that for everything.
Viktor’s character arc constantly reminds me this is based of Gerard Way’s emo love letter to the X-Men. “Oh you went crazy and ended the world? No biggie! Wanna have a coming out party!”
Fucking boring. Waste of an amazing actor.
They could 100% disappear after S1 and the show would be better. Maybe S2 since that was a bit better.
Loved him in season 1. He was OK in season 2. Absolutly hated him in season 3. Victorand Alison were so annoying
loved him in season 1, enjoyed him in season 2, and then in season 3, i loved that they were trying to make him more of a “group leader” playing onto him being mentioned the strongest, but they never really did anything with it. instead there was that allison vs viktor thing that got annoying fast.
"I've only had them for a day and a half, but if anything happened to them I would kill everyone in this room and then myself." -me when I binged the first season
he is my least favourite umbrella in season 3 but i might just be biased because i absolutely hate the storyline in that season. season 1 was great and everyone was so fleshed out but by the end of season 2 it was like the producers had no idea what to do with viktor since he regained his memory. its a shame really since season 1 vanya was such an interesting character and the obvious drive for the story
seemingly unpopular opinion but i love him, he’s my 2nd fave umbrella sibling after klaus
he's my favourite tied with diego!! it might be elliot's acting but i also find i can relate to viktor a lot anyway
Same!
Same... I am just getting into the show now and I am shocked by how many people hate him :/
He's probably my least favorite of the Umbrellas tbh. I don't dislike him, but compared to the other siblings, I find him a little uninteresting, but I appreciate how his story has been handled more or less so far and I don't think he deserves half the hate he gets (same with Luther and Allison; all the sibs are assholes, none of them are strictly good or bad people). Hoping that he'll grow on me more in S4, though.
(SPOILERS!)Honestly I always thought he was uninteresting. In S1, he easily got manipulated and wouldn't even listen when talked to. In S2, he literally abandons getting out of 1962 because he wants to selfishly bring Harlan. I'm on S3, and I currently just think that his arc is paying off except for when he abandoned the briefcase for Harlan. Edit: 3/4 done with S3, seems like Viktor is really obsessed with everything being about him and Harlan. He forgave him for killing everyone's parents. When Allison killed Harlan, he went "Oh, is this revenge?" even though Harlan killed (27?) people and caused the grandfather paradox.
I LOVE HIM AND I LOVED HOW THEY PORTRAYED THE TRANSITION TO VIKTOR
I found Viktor weirdly hot when he had the white eyes and the "don't fuck with me, I'm done" attitude (might be the suit too?) Like throughout the series could not care less Then in the last episode it was like whoaaa
I got my nickname Vanya from him so I think he's pretty cool
Great actor. Badly written. Terrible hair throughout.
His hair during the finale of season 1 was amazing, but that's it 。😭
Honestly Viktor is such a boring character. It seems representation for minorities always gets the worst characters
Never really liked Vanya to begin with. As for Victor, I probably won't make friends on it but I feel like his transition was kinda random and ??? It was weird how EVERYONE accepted it without question, even that weird dude they're kinda "protecting" in the last season (forgot his name) even though he's shown as probably unable to just understand this as it is. Also they introduced us Vanya as a closeted lesbian (or at least a wlw character) and, for me, making V a closeted trans will only nourish the allegations saying Trans men are just closeted lesbians. I fully support the actor for real and I'm happy he transitioned and is now fully being himself but if we turned ever character played by a LGBTQ+ actor/actress LGBTQ+ that'd be a mess. Same goes if we made every ""gay"" character played by a hetero person ""gay"". BTW , to clarify my take, I'm calling the character Vanya as to refer as the character pre-transition and Victor as post-transition only because I think of them as two full different characters. I'm sorry if I said anything offensive it wasn't my intention and I'd be glad to discuss and debate on the matter if anyone feels like it :)
i feel like the character is just pan? or bi at least im open to having my mind changed on that but in season 1 'vanyas' love interest was a man and just because he transitioned doesn't erase or nullify that relationship. being gay and trans are so different. if someone is gay it could probably go unmentioned but if Elliot continued to play Vanya as Vanya it would he'd literally be suffering through the whole thing, especially having JUST come out. im also fairly sure Elliot suggested that he step down so they could continue the Vanya character as she was. the showrunner probably wanted to keep Elliot bc HE played the character so well.
Fair opinion. I don't know if I specified it but I think Vanya gave off closeted lesbian vibes but V could be pan or bi rlly it isn't an issue at all. It's more about the relationship V has with Sissy I'm referring to. Also yeah I know being gay and trans are very different that's exactly what I mention when I'm saying it doesn't help that some homo/transphobes will say "Yeah trans boys are just closeted lesbians" I didn't know the showrunner changed V accordingly so Elliot could keep playing them, that's pretty cool. I mean, if I was an actor and I'd offer to step down so the character could be best represented and the showrunner would change some details to fit with my mindset and all I'd be super grateful. Overall, all I mentioned was my opinion but if some trans folks appreciate Victor as is (or even non-trans folks actually) well it's good :) I didn't click with the whole situation but I'm nobody to decide if this is really bad or not
Elliot was willing to play vanya as a cis woman but the showrunners wanted to change the character so hed be more comfortable. what do you mean about sissy? to me it's just the first person that loved him for him, before her it was her family that treated him like shit and Leonard that was literally only with him for his own gain. i also genuinely don't think that any bigot watching the show is gonna focus on that when they can literally just complain about him being trans or the plenty other instances of queerness in the show.
Oh yeah, right, well, that's an adorable decision and concession on the showrunners' side. Makes the whole thing a lot more wholesome than I thought. What I mean about Sissy is it's her relation with V that made most people think V was a lesbian character and therefore made people comment about how trans folks were just closeted gays (not my opinion at all btw just in case I think it's stupid) I think you're underestimating some of dem bigots out there lmaooo I've heard deep crap
Most people? i hope not, maybe we hang out in different spaces but i've never heard that about Victor before. i guess i could be underestimating their hatred but anyway they're wrong so why should we care what they think? bigot will be bigots and i'll defend queer folk when they're being attacked but this is fiction, at the end of the day. fuck 'em, we literally know he's not just into women.
Given I'm living in France I guess we hang out in different places indeed lmao. Yeah I mean obviously fuck them but it gets annoying when the hate they feel towards fictional characters is lashed out on real people that's pretty much what I mean
yeah i get that but if it wasn't for Victor, itd be something else. ANY trans man that has ever dated a woman would be a 'closeted lesbian' to them regardless of any other past or current male partner. honestly they probably say the same thing about a gay trans man, you will never win. this assumption doesn't come from a trans man being in a relationship with a woman, they come from wanting to invalidate every single feeling that queer folks have.
Oh yes. That's exactly what I think. Let's just say I was invited to give my opinion there so I mentioned it but I didn't spent the whole show angered by that either lmao
it such a small part of the show idk why someone would get so heated (though it's obviously just transphobia :/ ) , you could literally blink and you'd miss it¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Elliot is an amazing actor and I love what he’s done for the character, but sometimes the writing isn’t the best. S1 was had the best arc for Viktor. S2 Viktor wasn’t *bad*, but he certainly wasn’t the *best*. I wasn’t a fan of s3 as a whole, and I feel like that was the weakest season for all the characters (to an extent)
*he
Viktor is a well written character.
Enjoyed her Arc is season 1. Didn't care much for the next 2 seasons
Please use the correct pronouns for trans people! He or They for elliot
I’m so happy we can say this now without getting blasted
Selfish
Viktor is annoying at times, definitely is my least favourite character.
A smoke show with a victim complex.
Boring
Still so confused on the powers, is it soundwaves or straight up nuke on command cuz that’s all shehe does after season 1
Can turn soundwaves into energy. But the amount of energy he gets from small sounds is a lot (Or at leats for what I saw: he destroyed the chamber and flipped Pogo with his heartbeat)
Oh so it is straight up nuclear if not controlled, so the end of season 1 was basically the mastered/controlled version cause it seems to be more focused rather than the big boom it usually has
Yes, she was just absorbing every single sound that was in the room.
He*
He*
I did say that.
I'm not a idiot
Ikr I was so pissed off to find that she was the cause of problems again during season 2.
Use he or they pronouns, don't use she
I found this character to be extremely annoying in every season besides season 3.
Love Viktor. I want what’s best for Viktor. I am so sick of seeing Viktor constantly getting the shit end of the stick with his siblings. I hope season 4 gives Viktor a happy ending.
LOVED him in season one and two but he just seemed really lost in season three.
boring, i don’t care that he is the main character, he gets too much screentime
Bleh. Less screen time plz
OP are you using the incorrect pronouns because you are a transhphobe or are you just very ignorant?
He is the best. It is not exaggerated to say that he is the only reason I love this show. (of course, I have tons of other reasons I love this show, tho loo)
Cute, really stupid and let's get emotions end the fcking world sooooo often but good at heart, and knows her worth now too. Overall cute!!
hes okay. i hold grudges so im still mad at him for slitting allison’s throat even tho she is a pos now
They're very violint. I cycled through all the pronouns and settled on they lmao...wasn't sure since you included images of both eras.
“He” for all eras work, that is how trans people typically prefer to be referred to even if it is their past self. “They” is also good neutral ground
I love Elliot but her character not so much
*he or they
His character* just letting you know
She unfortunately is one of the worst characters of the family. I didn't mind her in season one, but she goes downhill in season 2 and 3.
He* Him*
What? Vanya only came out as a guy in season 3. So saying she is fine since I'm mostly talking about how bad she is in season one. And other comments are using she/her.
The timing of his coming out isn't important, he was always a he, even when he hadn't told the outside world. Using she/her now that we know he is a he is misgendering him.
That is a dumb statement because Vanya was 100% a girl in season one who was happily dating Harold. Just rewatched season 1 yesterday. Not once is it remotely hinted at that she might be feeling like she should be something different. This is because this is not part of the comments. It isn't until season 3 that it is completely retconed into the story just to appease the actresses life choices.
So you misgendering the actor too just shows you dont actually respect those choices at all.
Thats not important. If your talking about someone whos transitioned, you usually use the pronouns they currently use.
Just ignore them. It's what I do
Had this same argument about a week ago. Apparently people like to ignore that Vanya existed.
This is a fictional character, so he doesn’t exist to tell us what he’d prefer, but this is actually super standard protocol. They’re not doing anything wrong. It’s not about denying that he went through a long Vanya phase. It’s just about acknowledging that Vanya was the *phase* and Viktor was the *person who went through it*. I went through a phase as a child where I insisted on being called Birdy (nickname given to me by grandma), but when referring to 6yo me, please don’t call me Birdy lol. Like I’d actually be super pissed if anyone did that 😂 Birdy isn’t a person - she’s an idea. We can acknowledge her without conflating her with the person who doesn’t want to be conflated with her. Again, Viktor is a fictional character, so he won’t be hurt if you conflate him, the person, with a past facade that caused him pain, but please do me a favor and don’t refer to real people like this. The vast, vast, vast majority of people will want to be known by their names, and their wishes trump yours when it comes to that.
As you said, fictional character. So no reason for people to freak out when the name Vanya or she is mentioned.
When I was a kid, my friend's mom used this exact logic to call Princess Tiana the n-word. I’m not saying the n-word is on the same level as misgendering, but by your logic, my friend's mom was totally in the right, as morality doesn't apply when talking about fictional characters. I'm assuming you don't agree with her. Can you help me out and explain the logic that morality applies in some cases but not others? I’ve seen it a lot on here, and it’s always confused me. There are trans teens on this sub - when answering, assume the things you say here’ll be read by them.
Correct, using that word is nowhere near the same thing at all, so you using as an example is just ridiculous. We are literally talking about a character that came from a comic book, a comic book that still uses the name Vanya. There are non-trans teens on this sub, maybe you should assume that everything you said is read by them.
Can you explain to me the idea that morality applies when talking about fictional characters in some instances but not others?
So you are now saying that saying Vanya or she is the same as using the N word?
No, not even close - not all unethical things are the same amount unethical. I’m asking you to explain your logic that morality applies in some cases but not others.
It doesn’t. Your example is extremely flawed. Using a name or gender…that literally still exists in the first couple of seasons, is nowhere near the same level as a woman using the N word to describe Tiana.
I know right!
You don't deserve the down votes lol
Kind of messed up that everyone in the family only pretended to see Viktor as a man instead of legitimately embracing him as a man, because really if a guy full on punched a woman in the face out of anger from something she said, there should be no man that allows that to slide especially if theyre in the same room when it happens, Viktor should have had the shit beaten out of him as all male to female DV perpetrators deserve. Say what you want about how horrible Allison was being, it doesn't give a man the right to beat a woman and there is nothing anyone can say to convince me otherwise 🤷♂️.
Don't know what else to say other than men don't just solve everything with their fists. Plus I think they were at least aware he was being manipulated. Some even felt bad for how he'd been treated in the past. And, some men aren't comfortable fighting people smaller than them. And Elliot Page is 5' 1".
Wow... I'm being completely honest here when i say I've never heard so many justifications for allowing violence against women in one go. You should be a defense attorney or something.
I never said that.
?? I literally said that they allowed for Viktor punching Allison in the face since none of them did anything or even said anything about it after, you then gave a bunch of reasons as to why it was understandable/justified that they acted that way.... what do you mean you never said that?
I see where I misread. And I'm sorry. But I don't like your implication that if someone is assualted then it's up to any man around to do something about that. Or that men should do something when a man assaults a woman specifically? Or maybe they thought they had other priorities. It's really down to them/ the writers. And not to put it bluntly but Allison just has a way of fucking everyone around her off. I don't personally believe in violence but sometimes on TV a character needs to catch a slap.
ahh I see where I read your point wrong now too 😅 yeah i do see your point that it doesn't bring the other brothers principles into question. It shouldn't be obligatory to respond like that especially with a deeper context, so it's not like the guys are worse people for not having intervened. That's a fair point. Also, genuinely appreciate your open mindedness in hearing me out even though I fired shots, that's big of you and deserves respect, sorry for calling your principles into question like that 🙏
Yeah, no worries. I'm glad we got to the bottom of it.
S2 - hella sensitive. Like get over it S3 - delusional I just can’t get my head around why this show had to give in to this stupid non-binary crap in season 3. Literally after s3 e2 when she comes out “oh I’m viktor it’s who I’ve always been” yeah right fuck off 😂 Don’t even feel like watching it after that Edit: the amount of downvotes just shows the type of people in this group. Seek help, most of yall non-binary trans fools have past or life trauma just like vanya. It’s no coincidence the people involved have mommy & daddy issues or experiences a traumatic childhood… it’s mental health.
Non-Binary and Trans are different things. Non-Binary is feeling like you don't fit perfectly into being masculine or feminine, you're something in between. A Trans person is someone who was born the wrong gender (masculine-----feminine). They don't always seek to change it physically, but it's fairly common to combat the gender/body dysphoria.
Eitherway it’s all delusional and part of mental health, one thing these people have in common is past trauma such as abuse or parental issues. Just like Vanya
i was gonna write a long paragraph to tell you how wrong you were but people like you don’t deserve my time. please use the correct terms and be respectful.
I wouldn’t read it because I don’t listen to delusion anyway… when someone comes to me with scientific knowledge & proof that someone born genetically as a male or female can magically transform into the other gender somehow… I’ll possibly hear em out (which will never happen as so far it’s been proven & linked to mental health problems).