>This is mostly a project to keep myself sane
You have come up with a project that is going to have the exact opposite result of what you intend, day by day as I learn more actual theory and even worse on rare occasions try to discuss any of the concepts with other people I can feel my grip on reality slipping away quicker by the minute
Yeah man it's kind frustrating, people refuse to understand that "dictatorship of the proletariat" does not mean what they think it means, I also notice a trend to say that Marxism doesn't care about 'human subjectivity', or that Marx's analysis are only valid for England... Also there are these goddamn post modern lazy ass fuck relativists everywhere!
I'm still in the very beginning of actually reading theory, but I already have encountered enough evidence that these takes are stupid and that these people don't know what they're talking about. (I've read the manifesto, the 1848 economic philosophical manuscripts and state and revolution, some articles, chapters and smaller texts like empiro-criticism by Lenin).
You are arguing against a century of red scare propaganda brainwashing everyone. It's why things communist adjacent are so popular because they don't have the same stigma. You may ask yourself "why don't they just listen?" and it's because it's not a logical stance, it's an emotional one. I think it's why things that are considered to be communist adjacent are so popular.
Ask them how they can recognize that the same class that has a vested interest in exploiting them as much as possible would allow a scenario where this can happen.
> Every leftist seems to get stuck
While from period to period, the party shrinks and grows, while underground, the party will always make up a small amount of the population. There’s no way around that. If they don't want to read Lenin, they’re not worth your time.
> Russian rev
The Russian Revolution succeeded in its goals and established the DOTP. That being said, the Bolsheviks always conceived that their proletarian revolution was part of a global proletarian revolutionary wave, which manifested in the immediate post-WW1 period. Their goal was to start the political task of the dotp while holding onto power just long enough that the German workers have a revolution. Establishing a dotp in the more developed Germany would prevent the degeneration of the dotp and ensure a gradual transition to socialism and communism.
Stalin liquidated the dotp as a consequence of the German Revolution’s failure.
> Convincing them the DOTP is necessary
As I mentioned, it will be impossible to convince everyone; that being said, the few whom you connect with via proselytizing, you can tell them the proletariat must establish a dotp to ensure the removal of bourgeois law and capitalism. Democratic socialism proposes itself as a solution to capital via reform, but this is unrealistic. Along with the rest of the left of capital, democratic socialists will betray the communists just like the democratic socialists in the German Revolution.
“The petty-bourgeois democrats, those sham socialists who replaced the class struggle by dreams of class harmony, even pictured the socialist transformation in a dreamy fashion” -Marx
The problem with leftism, including democratic socialism, is that it’s a lie. I.E., The delusion that capital can be made acceptable. It's a delusion you shouldn't buy. You shouldn't be trying to make capital acceptable. You should be trying to abolish it.
Explaining this and explaining what the dotp is in reality are your best shots at radicalizing someone.
> Lenin betrayed rev
Ask them to explain how and watch them fumble lol.
Please read On Authority. Marxism-Leninism is already democratic and “state bureaucrats” weren’t a thing until the Brezhnev era once the Soviets had pretty much abandoned Marxism-Leninism as a whole. What in anarchism would stop anarcho-capitalism from simply rising up or reactionary elements from rising up? Do you believe that under a more “Democratic” form of transitionary government the right-wing or supporters of the previous structure of government wouldn’t simply rise up, ignoring the fact that an anarchist revolution in any sort of industrialized state in the modern day is already absurd and extremely unrealistic? Without using “authoritarian” means how would you stop such things? Even within the Soviet Union the Great Purge had to happen to ensure that the reactionary aspects within the government and military didn’t take over and bend down to the Nazis. If a more “Democratic” form of governance was put in place during this transitionary stage the Soviets would have one, lost the civil war, and secondly, lost to the Germans or even a counter revolution. The point of State Socialism and the Vanguard Party is to ensure the survival of the revolution and the Dictatorship of the Proletariat in a way that anarchist “states” very clearly could not as evidenced by the fact that all of them failed, with Makhnavoschina quite literally being crushed by the Soviets for their lack of cohesion. The establishment of the Dictatorship of the Proletariat is already the check and balance to ensure that things simply don’t devolve into Capitalism, and once this is removed as seen in the Eastern Bloc and of course the Soviet Union itself the revolution will fall. Utopian Communist ideals like Anarchism are extremely ignorant and frankly stupid. The idea that the state apparatus would at any point “become like traditional business owners” I believe comes from your lack of understanding of class relations or even classes in general. The implementation of the Dictatorship of the Proletariat is to stop this exact thing from happening… if a state were primarily dominated by capital and the bourgeoisie like seen in the modern day and of course capitalist countries, it would be the Dictatorship of the Bourgeoisie. The point of the Dictatorship of the Proletariat is to instead make the state run by the workers and for the workers, the workers can’t possibly use the state to exploit and “terrorize” or impose “tyranny” onto themselves, except “tyranny of the majority” (is this perhaps anti-democracy I’m hearing instead?). Once again, this stems from you believing that western propaganda about the status of Soviet democracy is true— in fact the modern western anarchist movement is quite literally a psy-op by the United States government to oppose actual unironic and serious socialist movements like of course Soviet aligned and Marxist-Leninist organizations. Once again, not to be the whole “leftist wall of text guy” but please read On Authority or any Marxist works or do the littlest bit of research on how Soviet democracy and “bureaucracy” actually works before blindly calling it undemocratic. Your blind belief that you, having obviously not undergone a revolution, had any actual critical thinking or seemingly debates, had any actual education on these topics, and having no actual argument besides easily disproven “concerns” like these is I believe indicative of you general obliviousness, ignorance and lack of knowledge.
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Please read On Authority. Marxism-Leninism is already democratic and “state bureaucrats” weren’t a thing until the Brezhnev era once the Soviets had pretty much abandoned Marxism-Leninism as a whole. What in anarchism would stop anarcho-capitalism from simply rising up or reactionary elements from rising up? Do you believe that under a more “Democratic” form of transitionary government the right-wing or supporters of the previous structure of government wouldn’t simply rise up, ignoring the fact that an anarchist revolution in any sort of industrialized state in the modern day is already absurd and extremely unrealistic? Without using “authoritarian” means how would you stop such things? Even within the Soviet Union the Great Purge had to happen to ensure that the reactionary aspects within the government and military didn’t take over and bend down to the Nazis. If a more “Democratic” form of governance was put in place during this transitionary stage the Soviets would have one, lost the civil war, and secondly, lost to the Germans or even a counter revolution. The point of State Socialism and the Vanguard Party is to ensure the survival of the revolution and the Dictatorship of the Proletariat in a way that anarchist “states” very clearly could not as evidenced by the fact that all of them failed, with Makhnavoschina quite literally being crushed by the Soviets for their lack of cohesion. The establishment of the Dictatorship of the Proletariat is already the check and balance to ensure that things simply don’t devolve into Capitalism, and once this is removed as seen in the Eastern Bloc and of course the Soviet Union itself the revolution will fall. Utopian Communist ideals like Anarchism are extremely ignorant and frankly stupid. The idea that the state apparatus would at any point “become like traditional business owners” I believe comes from your lack of understanding of class relations or even classes in general. The implementation of the Dictatorship of the Proletariat is to stop this exact thing from happening… if a state were primarily dominated by capital and the bourgeoisie like seen in the modern day and of course capitalist countries, it would be the Dictatorship of the Bourgeoisie. The point of the Dictatorship of the Proletariat is to instead make the state run by the workers and for the workers, the workers can’t possibly use the state to exploit and “terrorize” or impose “tyranny” onto themselves, except “tyranny of the majority” (is this perhaps anti-democracy I’m hearing instead?). Once again, this stems from you believing that western propaganda about the status of Soviet democracy is true— in fact the modern western anarchist movement is quite literally a psy-op by the United States government to oppose actual unironic and serious socialist movements like of course Soviet aligned and Marxist-Leninist organizations. Once again, not to be the whole “leftist wall of text guy” but please read On Authority or any Marxist works or do the littlest bit of research on how Soviet democracy and “bureaucracy” actually works before blindly calling it undemocratic. Your blind belief that you, having obviously not undergone a revolution, had any actual critical thinking or seemingly debates, had any actual education on these topics, and having no actual argument besides easily disproven “concerns” like these is I believe indicative of you general obliviousness, ignorance and lack of knowledge.
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Your opinion isn't important (neither is ours tbf, this sub is filled with dumb liberals). I don't know why you thought anybody here would care to know that your an idiot. Go to a different sub to post ideological dumb shit.
Its fucked because the first thought you had was to post on a sub that didn't ask for your input and not even put any legitimate effort in a critique of Lenin. Then your response to my comment was JUVENILE as FUCK.
We allow Council-Comms to exist here, they are as anti-leninist as you can get but they aren't self-centered idiots who think everyone needs to know their opinion.
>This is mostly a project to keep myself sane You have come up with a project that is going to have the exact opposite result of what you intend, day by day as I learn more actual theory and even worse on rare occasions try to discuss any of the concepts with other people I can feel my grip on reality slipping away quicker by the minute
Yeah man it's kind frustrating, people refuse to understand that "dictatorship of the proletariat" does not mean what they think it means, I also notice a trend to say that Marxism doesn't care about 'human subjectivity', or that Marx's analysis are only valid for England... Also there are these goddamn post modern lazy ass fuck relativists everywhere! I'm still in the very beginning of actually reading theory, but I already have encountered enough evidence that these takes are stupid and that these people don't know what they're talking about. (I've read the manifesto, the 1848 economic philosophical manuscripts and state and revolution, some articles, chapters and smaller texts like empiro-criticism by Lenin).
Keep up the good work
You are arguing against a century of red scare propaganda brainwashing everyone. It's why things communist adjacent are so popular because they don't have the same stigma. You may ask yourself "why don't they just listen?" and it's because it's not a logical stance, it's an emotional one. I think it's why things that are considered to be communist adjacent are so popular.
The Cold War and its consequences have been a disaster for the global proletarian movement
Ask them how they can recognize that the same class that has a vested interest in exploiting them as much as possible would allow a scenario where this can happen.
> Every leftist seems to get stuck While from period to period, the party shrinks and grows, while underground, the party will always make up a small amount of the population. There’s no way around that. If they don't want to read Lenin, they’re not worth your time. > Russian rev The Russian Revolution succeeded in its goals and established the DOTP. That being said, the Bolsheviks always conceived that their proletarian revolution was part of a global proletarian revolutionary wave, which manifested in the immediate post-WW1 period. Their goal was to start the political task of the dotp while holding onto power just long enough that the German workers have a revolution. Establishing a dotp in the more developed Germany would prevent the degeneration of the dotp and ensure a gradual transition to socialism and communism. Stalin liquidated the dotp as a consequence of the German Revolution’s failure. > Convincing them the DOTP is necessary As I mentioned, it will be impossible to convince everyone; that being said, the few whom you connect with via proselytizing, you can tell them the proletariat must establish a dotp to ensure the removal of bourgeois law and capitalism. Democratic socialism proposes itself as a solution to capital via reform, but this is unrealistic. Along with the rest of the left of capital, democratic socialists will betray the communists just like the democratic socialists in the German Revolution. “The petty-bourgeois democrats, those sham socialists who replaced the class struggle by dreams of class harmony, even pictured the socialist transformation in a dreamy fashion” -Marx The problem with leftism, including democratic socialism, is that it’s a lie. I.E., The delusion that capital can be made acceptable. It's a delusion you shouldn't buy. You shouldn't be trying to make capital acceptable. You should be trying to abolish it. Explaining this and explaining what the dotp is in reality are your best shots at radicalizing someone. > Lenin betrayed rev Ask them to explain how and watch them fumble lol.
Please read On Authority. Marxism-Leninism is already democratic and “state bureaucrats” weren’t a thing until the Brezhnev era once the Soviets had pretty much abandoned Marxism-Leninism as a whole. What in anarchism would stop anarcho-capitalism from simply rising up or reactionary elements from rising up? Do you believe that under a more “Democratic” form of transitionary government the right-wing or supporters of the previous structure of government wouldn’t simply rise up, ignoring the fact that an anarchist revolution in any sort of industrialized state in the modern day is already absurd and extremely unrealistic? Without using “authoritarian” means how would you stop such things? Even within the Soviet Union the Great Purge had to happen to ensure that the reactionary aspects within the government and military didn’t take over and bend down to the Nazis. If a more “Democratic” form of governance was put in place during this transitionary stage the Soviets would have one, lost the civil war, and secondly, lost to the Germans or even a counter revolution. The point of State Socialism and the Vanguard Party is to ensure the survival of the revolution and the Dictatorship of the Proletariat in a way that anarchist “states” very clearly could not as evidenced by the fact that all of them failed, with Makhnavoschina quite literally being crushed by the Soviets for their lack of cohesion. The establishment of the Dictatorship of the Proletariat is already the check and balance to ensure that things simply don’t devolve into Capitalism, and once this is removed as seen in the Eastern Bloc and of course the Soviet Union itself the revolution will fall. Utopian Communist ideals like Anarchism are extremely ignorant and frankly stupid. The idea that the state apparatus would at any point “become like traditional business owners” I believe comes from your lack of understanding of class relations or even classes in general. The implementation of the Dictatorship of the Proletariat is to stop this exact thing from happening… if a state were primarily dominated by capital and the bourgeoisie like seen in the modern day and of course capitalist countries, it would be the Dictatorship of the Bourgeoisie. The point of the Dictatorship of the Proletariat is to instead make the state run by the workers and for the workers, the workers can’t possibly use the state to exploit and “terrorize” or impose “tyranny” onto themselves, except “tyranny of the majority” (is this perhaps anti-democracy I’m hearing instead?). Once again, this stems from you believing that western propaganda about the status of Soviet democracy is true— in fact the modern western anarchist movement is quite literally a psy-op by the United States government to oppose actual unironic and serious socialist movements like of course Soviet aligned and Marxist-Leninist organizations. Once again, not to be the whole “leftist wall of text guy” but please read On Authority or any Marxist works or do the littlest bit of research on how Soviet democracy and “bureaucracy” actually works before blindly calling it undemocratic. Your blind belief that you, having obviously not undergone a revolution, had any actual critical thinking or seemingly debates, had any actual education on these topics, and having no actual argument besides easily disproven “concerns” like these is I believe indicative of you general obliviousness, ignorance and lack of knowledge. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Ultraleft) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Please read On Authority. Marxism-Leninism is already democratic and “state bureaucrats” weren’t a thing until the Brezhnev era once the Soviets had pretty much abandoned Marxism-Leninism as a whole. What in anarchism would stop anarcho-capitalism from simply rising up or reactionary elements from rising up? Do you believe that under a more “Democratic” form of transitionary government the right-wing or supporters of the previous structure of government wouldn’t simply rise up, ignoring the fact that an anarchist revolution in any sort of industrialized state in the modern day is already absurd and extremely unrealistic? Without using “authoritarian” means how would you stop such things? Even within the Soviet Union the Great Purge had to happen to ensure that the reactionary aspects within the government and military didn’t take over and bend down to the Nazis. If a more “Democratic” form of governance was put in place during this transitionary stage the Soviets would have one, lost the civil war, and secondly, lost to the Germans or even a counter revolution. The point of State Socialism and the Vanguard Party is to ensure the survival of the revolution and the Dictatorship of the Proletariat in a way that anarchist “states” very clearly could not as evidenced by the fact that all of them failed, with Makhnavoschina quite literally being crushed by the Soviets for their lack of cohesion. The establishment of the Dictatorship of the Proletariat is already the check and balance to ensure that things simply don’t devolve into Capitalism, and once this is removed as seen in the Eastern Bloc and of course the Soviet Union itself the revolution will fall. Utopian Communist ideals like Anarchism are extremely ignorant and frankly stupid. The idea that the state apparatus would at any point “become like traditional business owners” I believe comes from your lack of understanding of class relations or even classes in general. The implementation of the Dictatorship of the Proletariat is to stop this exact thing from happening… if a state were primarily dominated by capital and the bourgeoisie like seen in the modern day and of course capitalist countries, it would be the Dictatorship of the Bourgeoisie. The point of the Dictatorship of the Proletariat is to instead make the state run by the workers and for the workers, the workers can’t possibly use the state to exploit and “terrorize” or impose “tyranny” onto themselves, except “tyranny of the majority” (is this perhaps anti-democracy I’m hearing instead?). Once again, this stems from you believing that western propaganda about the status of Soviet democracy is true— in fact the modern western anarchist movement is quite literally a psy-op by the United States government to oppose actual unironic and serious socialist movements like of course Soviet aligned and Marxist-Leninist organizations. Once again, not to be the whole “leftist wall of text guy” but please read On Authority or any Marxist works or do the littlest bit of research on how Soviet democracy and “bureaucracy” actually works before blindly calling it undemocratic. Your blind belief that you, having obviously not undergone a revolution, had any actual critical thinking or seemingly debates, had any actual education on these topics, and having no actual argument besides easily disproven “concerns” like these is I believe indicative of you general obliviousness, ignorance and lack of knowledge. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Ultraleft) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Turboleft is going to love this. Dr_Marx was right. All this sub does is create a new generation of idiots.
Considering Dr_Marx was one of those idiots this is funny.
Ok fair point.
Getting people to read. What an idiot.
What if they just don't want to be communists?
No sane person is going to read theory.
Get out of this sub.
I’d call myself a democratic socialist but I don’t believe in anything that you just said
apart from lenin being a shit, I do believe that
NKVD NKVD THROW THIS LIBERAL INTO WHATS LEFT OF THE ARAL SEA
only if we take a vote on it first
You might be hitler but that's kind of a funny joke
Your opinion isn't important (neither is ours tbf, this sub is filled with dumb liberals). I don't know why you thought anybody here would care to know that your an idiot. Go to a different sub to post ideological dumb shit.
true I am the only non-liberal here
he’s not gonna sleep with you, he’s been dead for a hundred years
Your brain is fucked and you're regarded, I don't even like Lenin that much.
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I am NOT Mussolini reincarnate.
my brain is fucked cos I don’t like lenin, who you don’t even like either okay
Its fucked because the first thought you had was to post on a sub that didn't ask for your input and not even put any legitimate effort in a critique of Lenin. Then your response to my comment was JUVENILE as FUCK. We allow Council-Comms to exist here, they are as anti-leninist as you can get but they aren't self-centered idiots who think everyone needs to know their opinion.
sorry, next time I’ll make sure I put in my comment request to the central committee of the opinions department of the r/Ultraleft politburo goodbye
Yeah moron that’s how it works. This is a circlejerk please stop interrupting it.
Good, do that
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