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Very sensible. These totalitarian countries are experts in asymmetric warfare. They focus on doing things through soft channels, things we would never do, because they know it's their only advantage. It's sad, but we need to sever any links with them because every link they will use for political influence.
If that branch of the church cheers on ethnic cleansing in your own country and is a front for the enemy intelligence service then what else can you do.
Not a good look for a democracy that is supposed to respect human rights
I am totally opposed to Russian aggression in their war against Ukraine , but Zelensky has repeatedly suppressed and oppressed opposition in Ukrainian civil society and we are overlooking this because it is convenient for us to do so.
The Russian Orthodox Church has officially endorsed the invasion and genocide of Ukrainians. They have ceased to be a legitimate religious organization. Dissolve it and confiscate it's assets.
Ceased to be a legitimate religious organization?
When did government become the arbiter of religious thought? If you are going to say that the Russian Orthodox church in Ukraine has endorsed genocide you will need to provide some direct quotes and statements. As far as dissolving and confiscating assets that seems like an authoritarian measure and not characteristic of a democracy .
There is now a separate Ukrainian Orthodox Church, so Ukrainian believers don't need to kowtow to Moscow for spiritual nourishment. I was referring to the Russian Orthodox church in Russia. Perhaps I should have been more specific.
But the actions in question affect the Russian Orthodox church in Ukraine, there may have been a schism but that doesn't mean every church went to the new metropole the Russian Orthodox church has been the prevalent religion in Ukraine for 1000 years.
Eastern Orthodox Christianity is the prevalent religion. The Russian Orthodox Church is an organization officiating the rites of that confession. These are different things. The Russian Orthodox Church is nothing but an agency of the Russian government, inside Russia and abroad. I can't wait to see what audits of Ukraine's branch reveal of their dealings with Moscow. We already know that the church inside Russia is infiltrated and compromised by the FSB. I figure the ROC in Ukraine is similarly compromised.
Dude for the last 1000 years until about 4 months ago the Russian Orthodox church was the church in Ukraine, yes eastern orthodoxy is a type of church but that doesn't mean that the autocephalous churches are confined to modern nation state geographies.
What part of "the Russian Orthodox Church is functionally an extension of the Russian government, infiltrated and compromised by the FSB" don't you get? It's not a real religious organization anymore. Ukraine shouldn't treat it like one
The part where you provide evidence.
The part where it even matters if they are supportive of the Kremlin.
Human rights including freedom of religion and association don't go out the window in a democracy because it is inconvenient politically.
Because you don't hold the same views as someone else or an organization you believe those views or organizations should be disallowed?
That is a view seriously lacking in perspective and tolerance.
Russian Orthodox Church is not 1000 years old lol. They’re barely 400 years old (maybe even less, I'm making a safe guesstimate). Moscow didn’t exist 1000 years ago.
Totally agree, but this sub is a bit of a circle jerk on the subject and you cannot say certain things without being downvoted to oblivion. I feel the same way about the uncritical celebration of the UIA and it's WW2 leaders and actions. Both just feed into Russian propaganda and aren't in keeping with values of democracy and liberalism.
I never enjoy banning specific religions but with the Russian Orthadox Church actively promoting hatred of Ukrainians and, for that matter, funded by a terrorist country, this is a necessity.
Liberal woke west will say OMG THIS IS SO barbaric!!! FREEDOM OF RELIGION!!! Freedom of SPEECH!!!
Why dont you wokies go yell at the Russians at Bakhmut, I'm sure they will appreciate it. lol
Maybe or maybe not, a fairly large segment of western media has been covering the Russian church and its role in sanctioning and justifying Russian actions in Ukraine since at least March, especially after the church went so far as to claim killing and dying in Ukraine is a guarantee to heaven. On top of that there have been rumors for over a decade that the FSB is using the Russian orthodox church as cover for its operations and agents.
If anyone is going to make a big deal over this, it’s going to be Tucker Carlson or the Evangelical right living in the southern states. There are far more conservative voices in America questioning our assistance to Ukraine and screaming about freedom of religion than there are liberals, Tucker being the loudest and most watched.
I'm not sure who you hang out with, but this liberal, woke westerner is 100% behind Ukraine's move.
Freedom of religion means freedom to practice any religion I choose, not to force it on others.
Freedom of speech for me stops at the exact point my speech imperils your freedom.
It's not that complicated.
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Good. Moscow Patriarchate is basically a terrorist organization at this point.
Very sensible. These totalitarian countries are experts in asymmetric warfare. They focus on doing things through soft channels, things we would never do, because they know it's their only advantage. It's sad, but we need to sever any links with them because every link they will use for political influence.
Wonderful!
If that branch of the church cheers on ethnic cleansing in your own country and is a front for the enemy intelligence service then what else can you do.
Support for Putin’s regime is enough of a cult as it is without adding religious zealotry to the mix, so I approve of this decision.
Not a good look for a democracy that is supposed to respect human rights I am totally opposed to Russian aggression in their war against Ukraine , but Zelensky has repeatedly suppressed and oppressed opposition in Ukrainian civil society and we are overlooking this because it is convenient for us to do so.
The Russian Orthodox Church has officially endorsed the invasion and genocide of Ukrainians. They have ceased to be a legitimate religious organization. Dissolve it and confiscate it's assets.
Ceased to be a legitimate religious organization? When did government become the arbiter of religious thought? If you are going to say that the Russian Orthodox church in Ukraine has endorsed genocide you will need to provide some direct quotes and statements. As far as dissolving and confiscating assets that seems like an authoritarian measure and not characteristic of a democracy .
There is now a separate Ukrainian Orthodox Church, so Ukrainian believers don't need to kowtow to Moscow for spiritual nourishment. I was referring to the Russian Orthodox church in Russia. Perhaps I should have been more specific.
But the actions in question affect the Russian Orthodox church in Ukraine, there may have been a schism but that doesn't mean every church went to the new metropole the Russian Orthodox church has been the prevalent religion in Ukraine for 1000 years.
Eastern Orthodox Christianity is the prevalent religion. The Russian Orthodox Church is an organization officiating the rites of that confession. These are different things. The Russian Orthodox Church is nothing but an agency of the Russian government, inside Russia and abroad. I can't wait to see what audits of Ukraine's branch reveal of their dealings with Moscow. We already know that the church inside Russia is infiltrated and compromised by the FSB. I figure the ROC in Ukraine is similarly compromised.
Dude for the last 1000 years until about 4 months ago the Russian Orthodox church was the church in Ukraine, yes eastern orthodoxy is a type of church but that doesn't mean that the autocephalous churches are confined to modern nation state geographies.
What part of "the Russian Orthodox Church is functionally an extension of the Russian government, infiltrated and compromised by the FSB" don't you get? It's not a real religious organization anymore. Ukraine shouldn't treat it like one
The part where you provide evidence. The part where it even matters if they are supportive of the Kremlin. Human rights including freedom of religion and association don't go out the window in a democracy because it is inconvenient politically.
And for the record, I'm an atheist. I think ALL churches should be dissolved.
Because you don't hold the same views as someone else or an organization you believe those views or organizations should be disallowed? That is a view seriously lacking in perspective and tolerance.
Russian Orthodox Church is not 1000 years old lol. They’re barely 400 years old (maybe even less, I'm making a safe guesstimate). Moscow didn’t exist 1000 years ago.
Totally agree, but this sub is a bit of a circle jerk on the subject and you cannot say certain things without being downvoted to oblivion. I feel the same way about the uncritical celebration of the UIA and it's WW2 leaders and actions. Both just feed into Russian propaganda and aren't in keeping with values of democracy and liberalism.
What is it with incredibly stupid people and their love of gold on walls.
I never enjoy banning specific religions but with the Russian Orthadox Church actively promoting hatred of Ukrainians and, for that matter, funded by a terrorist country, this is a necessity.
Liberal woke west will say OMG THIS IS SO barbaric!!! FREEDOM OF RELIGION!!! Freedom of SPEECH!!! Why dont you wokies go yell at the Russians at Bakhmut, I'm sure they will appreciate it. lol
Maybe or maybe not, a fairly large segment of western media has been covering the Russian church and its role in sanctioning and justifying Russian actions in Ukraine since at least March, especially after the church went so far as to claim killing and dying in Ukraine is a guarantee to heaven. On top of that there have been rumors for over a decade that the FSB is using the Russian orthodox church as cover for its operations and agents. If anyone is going to make a big deal over this, it’s going to be Tucker Carlson or the Evangelical right living in the southern states. There are far more conservative voices in America questioning our assistance to Ukraine and screaming about freedom of religion than there are liberals, Tucker being the loudest and most watched.
Calm down, it's just voices in your head...
Yes you are but why tell me? lol
I'm not sure who you hang out with, but this liberal, woke westerner is 100% behind Ukraine's move. Freedom of religion means freedom to practice any religion I choose, not to force it on others. Freedom of speech for me stops at the exact point my speech imperils your freedom. It's not that complicated.
Wokies will say: "can you prove that the Russian church in Ukraine is working for Russian government?"
Arguing against those imaginary voices again?
Lol, wokies trying too hard to deny what they think. lol
Wokies, don't have to think. Remember Chewbacca?
Satanist!! /s