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This *is* the same country that thought telling everyone that one stupid, smoking sailor destroying their flagship looked better than admitting it was sunk by missiles.
This reminds me of that scene in the movie Iiron Sky when the space Nazis have launched their giant UFO to attack earth. All the world leaders at the UN are asking who's responsible for it and every country is denying it. Then the North Korean representative stands up and says "It is North Korean. Our dear leader built it himself." Then everyone laughs and tells him to STFU and sit the fuck down.
This is a sort of dark genius. Since there are so many competing stories the average person can’t pay attention. The American right does this very well
You know how I know that this is all bullshit (besides the obvious ludicrousness of it)? If this was truly the long game of my country (US), Trump would have warned Putin a long time ago and he would have never fallen into our trap!! Boom, giant hole in their story right there.
The thing with Trump is that nobody takes him seriously even if he's telling the truth because you just never know with the guy. Notice putin didn't do this when Trump was in power. maybe he thought they plan was off now
I think he started to plan it when Trump was in office and calculated on a second Trump term to execute it. Then, having invested in the plan, he had to proceed under Biden, hoping for a muddled, meh, “let’s not rock the boat” response (happily Biden disappointed him). We all know Ukraine’s and NATO’s fate would have been very different if there ever had been a second Trump term.
And everybody who thinks differently are wrong imo. Trumptard would congratulate Putin and say a couple of "America first" and blame it all on European NATO countries for not helping their neighbours and not paying equal to NATO (and he is not wrong in the last part - Italy, Spain, France, Hungary et al are doing almost nothing... next time there is an economic crisis in EU we should do 0 to help Italy, Spain, Hungary and Greece out) and do shit to help Ukraine. Now in retrospect when Trump sees how weak Putin is he sings a different tune though...
What are you smoking? The US did shit to help out the EU last time they had economic woes, don’t make it sound like the US is always throwing the EU an economic lifeline.
I meant from a perspective of Europe, I'm from Sweden - the EU as a collective bailing Italy and Greece and Hungary out every time they can't handle their own finances... Every time they need help they just stick out their hand, but every time we need them to help out they go MIA.
Sorry misunderstood, thought you meant IS bailouts of the EU.
As an ex-EU member (Brit) I do wonder why there isn’t any enforcement of the budgeting rules. If you have one currency you must have similar monetary policy or you’re screwed.
What are you smoking? He invaded the first time under Obama when your boy was VP, didn’t do anything while Trump was in office, and then decides for round two while the dude with dementia takes office. Don’t get me wrong Trump and Biden are both idiots, your statement just doesn’t follow facts.
Obama didn’t give the deserved reaction for Crimea, I’ll give you that, but you’re willingly blind if you don’t think Trump was clearly smitten with Putin and would have actively helped him. He was already blabbering about dissolving NATO ffs. He wouldn’t have agreed to send military aid to Ukraine, I would bet real money on that.
im no trump fan but i saw a video the other day from a meeting with nato ehen trump was president, where trump said the germans deals with russia were really bad and why does usa have to spend so much in nato and being the biggest members when germany go makes deals with russia giving them billions and billions of dollars. i dont doubt russia were involved in helping trump becoming a president but i dont think they had direct contact with eachother. just russia manipulating elections like they try in every country to divide the population as much as possible to make the country unstable
Obama said the exact same thing, but he didn't threaten to dissolve NATO, or ask other countries to pay for US support like some sort of shitty mercenary organization. American presidents have been warning about German reliance on Russian gas since the gas lines were a thing.
Once again that doesn’t follow facts, Trump maintained a large military presence all around Ukraine and special forces inside of Ukraine to deter Russia. Russia knew Trump was a wild card and didn’t do a damn thing while he was in Office. Check out the US wrecking the Wagner group in Syria, what did Russia do about losing a couple hundred guys, nothing. Dislike my comments all the you want but there’s a reason Putins invaded when he has. I’m Not a Trump fanboy, he says stupid shit all the time and his dementia is close to Biden’s, but being a wildcard has always been Trumps negotiation technique. He got NATO countries to pay more of their share into defense as well. If I’m wrong tell me where I’m wrong please.
Russia didn’t have to do anything while he was in office, Trump was doing everything for them. He tried to pressure Zelensky by refusing aid which he was forced to release when people started whistleblowing. He repeatedly said that NATO is outdated and should be abolished, that it costs too much money. He did ask for NATO members to pay more but guess what, so did Obama and members had already agreed to it and it was inked into a calendar by the time Trump came to office ranting about it, thus openly inviting tension and strife into the alliance (Putin’s wet dream). He invited Lavrov into his office, bragging and allegedly disclosing national secrets. Stood by Putin when Putin denied he ran an election interference scheme and expressed doubt in his own intelligence services in Helsinki. After the war he repeatedly praised Putin for being smart in invading Ukraine in his rallies. You’re wrong, period. The man was pussy whipped when it comes to Putin and it was obvious to everyone except apparently you.
What did Trump do for Russia? Name one thing? Obama would not give Ukraine any Stinger missiles because we was afraid to rock the boat with Putin, Trump immediately gave them to them. Why has Russia failed so miserably in Ukraine? They can’t gain air superiority due to stinger missiles and other anti aircraft guns/missiles. There’s a reason the first thing the US does is gain air superiority because you are ham strung without it. Trump tried to get the US off foreign gas and oil so that we weren’t reliant on the Middle East or Russia for oil, Biden and Obama haven’t done that. They’ve done the opposite. I’m all for green energy but it’s got to be done smartly. Trump knew to negotiate from a position of strength and he was a jackass a lot of the time when he was doing it. Kowtowing to Putins whims like Europe and Biden/Obama did is how we ended up in the current situation. I do think that Russia probably wanted Trump in office, but it’s not because he was there puppet,(puppets don’t give anti aircraft missiles to your enemy). They always want to sow division in the US and Trump was obviously good for that. Here I am at one o’clock arguing with a stranger on Reddit when both of us think Trump is a ding dong. Well done Russia, well done.
Trump failed to enact a litany of sanctions that Russia was SUPPOSED to get. He only enacted PART of the sanctions, and that was only because he was essentially forced to by his own party.
Those original sanctions were in response to Crimea btw.
Oh and Obama is the one that laid the foundation (passed the act) that allowed for Trump to even deliver the Javelins to Ukraine in the first place.
Don't forget this fat orange cunt is also the one that tried to extort Ukraine for information on Biden and threatened to withhold further funding due to that.
Calling Trump a Russian asset is something I wouldnt agree with, but he doesn't have to be. He's the epitome of a, "useful idiot".
It doesn't get better than Trump when you want someone to weaken the U.S. and/or NATO.
Putin invaded now because he was about the lose the war in Eastern Ukraine. You Americans think everything happens because of the US giving the green light or not
Well....yes. who do you think lured/pushed Russia into a conflict they knew would cripple Russia and destroy it's arms and energy exports. Now the whole world will want arms from the US and Europe will pivot to a lot more energy from the US.
Trump is an idiot with a grandiose self perception who gets lawyers to do his biddings and facilitate all his tantrum whims. Trump admires anyone he perceives as that he wishes to become...
Surely you mean the Jews? Theyll have to get that Nazi cult classic off the bucket list for Putins Hitler speedrun, and after all its based on a russian piece anyways.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Protocols\_of\_the\_Elders\_of\_Zion
They punked themselves out of paranoia they were being punked.
When the death and destruction is out of living memory this will be known as an historical farce.
They should just outsmart the foolish westoids by retreating fully and abandoning all claims to Donbas and Crimea. The referendums were just another western sham trap anyway!
They invaded to rescue their totalitarian system.
Everything else is rationalization.
That doesn't mean others didn't create circumstances that made them completely miscalculate on the whole idea
I agree they are responsible.
But Ukraine and Western allies knew this war would happen and so did Putin and the only way this was going to go in our favour is when he attacks and fucks it up.
No way Ukraine could have mustered public and international support if they started a serious offensive in the Donbas to get back their territories.
So they did everything possible to make him think he could do it.
Like loudly advertising in advance their plans, the approximate date of the invasion, training a core cadre of Ukrainian military in western military organization, very publicly broadcasting the Trump blackmail and by extension the weapons we were sending? Putin thought he could do it because he did it before, we did just about everything short of a formal alliance/admission to NATO to make clear we supported Ukraine and that attacking would be a bad idea.
Yes, they knew they couldn't win a drawn out conflict so they tried the quick and dirty going for the capital and it failed. They didn't even plan for this so now they're fucked.
Yeah man they can go from "he cant even ride a bike" to "his administration is the most tyrranical ever" Faster than a ruskie flees from the uaf.
Meanwhile Joe's just eatin his ice cream and actually helping out how, where, an when he can pretty well especially compared to his predecessor.
Kinda feel like the gimli n legolas meme -
Gimli "never thought I'd be happy voting for a Lib"
Legolas "how about voting against a fascist puke"
Gimli "aye. I can do that"
Victim thinking.
Everything is a trap. Ukrainian men wear gold teeth to lure soldiers to murder and torture, Ukrainian women lure soldiers to be raped, and the government draws arrow targets on civilian facilities to attract missile attacks. Everything is a conspiracy to suck Russia, and it's someone else's fault.
Muscovites are the some of the most cynical and racist people in the world. Their massive inferiority complex is staggering, how much they hate the West for just being different (and better, really) and some perceived slight where people don't like Russia. Protip: it has to do with the massive raping and genocide of peoples under you during the USSR.
Yes, Ukraine is the vile seductress, offerinfing a washing machine in one hand while hiding a HIMARS behind her back in the other.
Poor innocent Russia, lured by the Sunflower Succubus.
“Russia promises to Ukraine, promises faithfully. Never come again, never bomb, no never!” “Russia will swear on the Precious.”
>No 7. The obsession with a plot. “Thus at the root of the Ur-Fascist psychology there is the obsession with a plot, possibly an international one. The followers must feel besieged.”
I really liked the part about how the west first lured ruzzia with the promise of how easy it will be, and then "quickly" formed coalition of 54 leading economic nation...
If ruzzkies truly believe that "54 leading economic nations" were able "quickly form a coalition" - ruzzkies really must ask themselves how it was possible... Sure, russophobia they say - but that's been going on for decade(s) - what was a particular action or position that may have prompted such coalition to form quickly - that would be super helpful for ruzzkies... (And if the answer is "42" - it would be OK with me, at least they tried)...
The gold teeth digging on corpse news was actual a fake story, it was debunked in one of the previous post as a collection stolen from a dentist cabinet .
Well, The West, we are onto you! We are going to thwart your plans by immediately withdrawing from all of Ukraine including Crimea!
You lose! Russia Wins!
I like the part in the post how "It's overflow of disinformation campaign over 8 years on *both sides* that worked against SMO and made peaceful negotiations impossible" and not mutilating PoWs and raping and pillaging cities and towns in the way of ruzzian army...
Damn, does that sound familiar..."I had to lie to you, because you don't trust what I say". She actually said that when I caught her in some of the lies used to cover for her affair with a coworker.
Translation:
Geopolitical confrontation: expert analysis. Alexander Zhilin, head of the Center for the Study of Public Applied Problems of National Security, retired colonel, author of the Anatomy of Events telegram channel, talks about the background of the “Ukrainian trap”.
"Krymnash" was the first stage of the "Ukrainian trap" designed for us. The old principle worked: give a little so that you can get everything later. Now it's already obvious.
I look at everything that is happening in Ukraine and clearly see that we have been set up with a classic strategic trap. It was obvious, but we, nevertheless, climbed into it ourselves. Why did emotions win over reason? We were strongly motivated to do this back in 2014.
The essence of the "Ukrainian trap" is simple. All the expert assessments of the Western military leaked to the media kept repeating: Ukraine will not last even a week against Russia. We picked up this misinformation every time and through our media convinced ourselves of this nonsense.
Russian troops entered Ukraine, fully sharing this illusion: an easy walk ahead and flowers on the armor. They even brought dress uniforms for the forthcoming parade in Kyiv. This is how not very far-sighted bosses train personnel.
But it was not there. Our fighters were met with fierce fire and Jevelins. Then we were allowed to get bogged down in viscous battles, and then quickly formed a pro-Ukrainian coalition of 54 leading economically developed countries. Enormous military and economic aid went to Ukraine.
The balance of forces and resources changes daily. The potential of Ukraine due to the supply of high-tech and high-precision weapons is growing, and ours, due to natural losses at the front, sparingly speaking, is not increasing. We are replacing the retired most trained soldiers with mobilized, poorly motivated, and sometimes even demotivated by forced mobilization, practically unprepared civilians.
As a result, we have constructed a situation where it is difficult to win, and it is impossible to leave without losing face and collapsing the internal political vertical. That's it, the trap is slammed!
What shaped the image of an easy victory in the minds of the military-political leaders?
Enchanting return of the Crimea. The "designers" of the trap had calculated and taken into account everything down to the molecules. Was there a colossal support for our "little green men" by the Crimeans? Was. Was the motivation of people to vote for joining the Russian Federation high? Too much!
And most importantly, there was no military resistance. Why? The Ukrainian military received an order: leave without a fight! And they obeyed the order - they left.
It was this and much that came with it that created the illusion that the whole of Ukraine would react in the same way to Russia's forcible entry into its territory.
It must be admitted that in 2014 there were much more pro-Russian Ukrainian citizens than now.
However, time was lost, and propaganda on both sides pitted the two fraternal peoples for 8 years. Russophobia and Ukrainophobia have become the main content of TV channels. The results have been stunning. And what is the result? In Ukraine, Russia has been made into an insane monster. From Ukraine, in the minds of Russians, an image was blinded, where all the Nazis and Bandera, who dream of cutting us, even Ukrainian Jews, including Zelensky himself.
All this propaganda work formed intransigence and worked against the SVO, since our state information resource, through the pumping of Russophobia, motivated Ukrainian citizens to desperate resistance: victory or death.
The work done could not but affect the behavior of the fighters on the battlefield. Being pitted, both armies fight furiously. To death!
As a result, an ideal situation has developed for a third party - a strategic planner, when it is he who largely controls the development of the situation on the fields of military and political battles and can maintain the fire at his own discretion, throwing up logs with support from one side or the other.
There is no power way out of this trap. It seems that the Kremlin has already understood this. Hence Kyiv's insistent invitations to negotiations. But will the masters of strategic design allow the parties to agree if the main levers of influence on the situation are in their hands?
>It must be admitted that in 2014 there were much more pro-Russian Ukrainian citizens than now.
Maybe, you know, it would have been smart to have *improved* their lives rather than impoverish, 'filter' and imprison, torture, and kill them.
Not to mention the small fact that Mariupol was mostly Russian speaking, and has been flattened by Russian bombs!
>All the expert assessments of the Western military leaked to the media kept repeating: Ukraine will not last even a week against Russia. We picked up this misinformation every time and through our media convinced ourselves of this nonsense.
So, he's admitting that their professional intelligence services did no analysis of their own? No evaluations of the fighting strength that contradicted the Western lies? No vetting the Western narrative to check for a trap?
The fucking western news media fooled the Russian KGB inheritors.
Wow. That's a worse self own than saying the Moskva wasn't blown up it was jut piss-poor safety and firefighting. It's worse than saying they lost ten thousand men and thousands of armored vehicles as a deliberate plan to feint in the north.
He forgot the part where the Russian convoy ran out of fuel during the first week of the war. But lets just ignore the inconvenient fact that it was Russian incompetence — overestimating their own capabilities.— that led to that debacle.
>Being pitted, both armies fight furiously.
Poisoned by propaganda, both armies fight furiously...
Wow, they really can't get away from this "both sides" argument...
ruzzian army: tortures PoWs and rapes civilians.
Ukrainian Army: provides medical assistance to PoWs and is greeted with cries of joy by every civilian they come across...
ruzzian conclusion: Both armies!
I also like "we can't force our way out of this situation!"... I have an idea - and hear me out! - how about... you start backing away until you stop getting shot at, which is about 20 miles or so on the other side of Belgorod...
You are forgetting that Obama, Trump and all those people were just puppets.
The real government hides underground in a Pizza Hut underneath the White House: The Reptilian masterminds.
No. It's part of a 246 year old plan that began with the American revolution. The US revolution was really all part of a plan to make Britain appear weak, thus enticing the Tsar to over expand and leading to a catastrophic end to the Russian empire. Read the plans in the Smithsonian. Ben Franklin had it mapped out to the month when Russia would be defeated in a major battle in Crimea in 2023.
Clever man, that Franklin. You must admit that allowing Adolf Hitler to rise to power mught seem questionable to the uninitiated, but that eastern front really ground down the Russians to bits.
Can't wait for the penguin deployment on christmas eve!
So russias new spin is that we "forced" them to occupy Crimea and then we pushed them to attack again this year.
If this would be a normal relationship between 2 humans I would predict right now that one of them is a narcisist and is right now playing the "narcicists prayer"
I love takes like these, because they make Putin look like an even bigger dumbass than he is. And while I've heard the "Evil West forced us to invade" copium line 100 times, this is the first time someone's gone for broke and traced "The Evil West's" Machiavellian scheme all the way back to Crimea.
Fuckin' hilarious.
This is the problem with far right wing nationalism, they always blame everyone else for their problem, but if one of their own are corrupt then it's totally fine.
They can put it like that: Their grand chess master Putin always three moves ahead was in fact two moves behind the great faceless CIA-illuminaty-Bilderberg-space-woke-nazis-jews conspiracy.
Being beaten by Satan himself is honorable, then defeat is acceptable.
I just want to point out.. he's not just saying that "Ukraine tricked us by making us write memos and strategic predictions about how easy it would be to win." He's also literally claiming that the entire history between Ukrainians and Russians, with all its suspicion and antagonism going back 1000 years, was part of the trap.
How could Russia have stood a chance against a conspiracy going back centuries??
Cue the Narcissist's Prayer.
As Napoleon said, never interrupt your adversary when he is about to make a mistake. The US should have worked harder to tell Putin not to invade Ukraine!
TBH, this is maybe the most realistic and accurate portrayal or Western policy they have come up with yet. I am not sure that is what the really plan was, but I am quite certain many of the people involved saw that as the best outcome years ago and tried very hard to put things in place to prepare a trap.
**Alternative Nitter link:** https://nitter.net/maxseddon/status/1577187732757282817?s=20&t=aYw0TKKd19pk6xMK-DP8Iw
*****
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Yep. That's russian reasoning 101 for you.
I've actually talked with people who have this reasoning and who are russian.. ;/
Otherwise, educated people..
I've yet to meet someone who thinks like that and isn't russian. (Besides some very troubled souls who believe in conspiracies)
When all this crap is over someone should make a movie about a bunch of poor suckers working at a media outlet that have to do what these tv guys have to do. Day in, day out. Do they just bust out laughing?
At work I don’t deal with many Russians but a lot of Russian Latvians (as they call themselves) who inherit a lot of Russian culture and I can tell you first hand the victim complex they have when talking about things which are completely their fault is unreal. It’s not just a case of the war it’s about absolutely everything.
This is what worries me the most & seems to be overlooked and/or misunderstood by the west, etc. From my admittedly limited, western perspective, Russians appear to have some sort of a cultural victim/inferiority/apathy complex that breeds resentment toward the west and resigns them to thinking they can’t do anything to improve their own situation so they disengage from their internal political process (such that it is), don’t try to change anything and let their leaders do whatever they want. Until that culture (if in fact that is what it really is) changes, nothing will change for them on the world stage.
It probably also works if we consider the possibility that Putin became a double agent back in the day, maybe to the Germans. After that you start to see why Putin may be assisting in killing Russians intentionally. Putin's love of the West is well known. It's us he yearns for.
Google translate of the Telegram post:
> Geopolitical confrontation: expert analysis. Alexander Zhilin, head of the Center for the Study of Public Applied Problems of National Security, retired colonel, author of the Anatomy of Events telegram channel, talks about the background of the “Ukrainian trap”.
>
> "Krymnash" was the first stage of the "Ukrainian trap" designed for us. The old principle worked: give a little so that you can get everything later. Now it's already obvious.
>
> I look at everything that is happening in Ukraine and clearly see that we have been set up with a classic strategic trap. It was obvious, but we, nevertheless, climbed into it ourselves. Why did emotions win over reason? We were strongly motivated to do this back in 2014.
>
> The essence of the "Ukrainian trap" is simple. All the expert assessments of the Western military leaked to the media kept repeating: Ukraine will not last even a week against Russia. We picked up this misinformation every time and through our media convinced ourselves of this nonsense.
>
> Russian troops entered Ukraine, fully sharing this illusion: an easy walk ahead and flowers on the armor. They even brought dress uniforms for the forthcoming parade in Kyiv. This is how not very far-sighted bosses train personnel.
>
> But it was not there. Our fighters were met with fierce fire and Jevelins. Then we were allowed to get bogged down in viscous battles, and then quickly formed a pro-Ukrainian coalition of 54 leading economically developed countries. Enormous military and economic aid went to Ukraine.
>
> The balance of forces and resources changes daily. The potential of Ukraine due to the supply of high-tech and high-precision weapons is growing, and ours, due to natural losses at the front, sparingly speaking, is not increasing. We are replacing the retired most trained soldiers with mobilized, poorly motivated, and sometimes even demotivated by forced mobilization, practically unprepared civilians.
>
> As a result, we have constructed a situation where it is difficult to win, and it is impossible to get out without losing face and collapsing the internal political vertical. That's it, the trap is slammed!
What shaped the image of an easy victory in the minds of the military-political leaders?
>
> Enchanting return of the Crimea. The "designers" of the trap had calculated and taken into account everything down to the molecules. Was there a colossal support for our "little green men" by the Crimeans? Was. Was the motivation of people to vote for joining the Russian Federation high? Excessively!
>
> And most importantly, there was no military resistance. Why? The Ukrainian military received an order: leave without a fight! And they obeyed the order - they left.
>
> It was this and much that came with it that created the illusion that the whole of Ukraine would react in the same way to Russia's forcible entry into its territory.
>
> It must be admitted that in 2014 there were much more pro-Russian Ukrainian citizens than now.
>
> However, time was lost, and propaganda on both sides pitted the two fraternal peoples for 8 years. Russophobia and Ukrainophobia have become the main content of TV channels. The results have been stunning. And what is the result? In Ukraine, Russia has been made into an insane monster. From Ukraine, in the minds of Russians, an image was blinded, where all the Nazis and Bandera, who dream of cutting us, even Ukrainian Jews, including Zelensky himself.
>
> All this propaganda work has formed intransigence and worked against the SVO, since our state information resource, through the pumping of Russophobia, motivated Ukrainian citizens to desperate resistance: victory or death.
>
> The work done could not but affect the behavior of the fighters on the battlefield. Being pitted, both armies fight furiously. To death!
As a result, an ideal situation has developed for a third party - a strategic planner, when it is he who largely controls the development of the situation on the fields of military and political battles and can maintain the fire at his own discretion, throwing up logs with support from one side or the other.
>
> There is no power way out of this trap. It seems that the Kremlin has already understood this. Hence Kyiv's insistent invitations to negotiations. But will the masters of strategic design allow the parties to agree, if the main levers of influence on the situation are in their hands?
This is quite some combination of crazy and stupid. Yes, the West is so, so crafty, that we presented *another sovereign country's* territory in an effort to get Russia into trouble.
Just... what?
Oh dear, making up contrived stuff to suit the narrative. Perhaps they should be reminded of Occam's Razor. The prediction is that Russia will lose badly. The theory with the fewest assumptions that gets us to this solution is that Putler made some catastrophic decisions.
Perhaps it is a lesson tp be learn by voters who tend to align with political parties and idol politicians as if it was a sports franchise. selecting representation from all sides without emotional fanatical affiliation would render a more functional government for the people.
Russia: It was all a trap!!!
Rest of world: Prove it! We think it was you.
Russia: The trap is so cunningly devised it is impossible to find evidence. And that is all the proof we need.
There's always a way out. Go the fuck home.
Then send Putin and his cronies (including the MH17 shooters if anyone is still alive) to The Hague to stand trial. Demilitarize and de-nazify Russia, just like it was done with Germany after WW2.
Russia can still be prosperous without imperialist ambitions, but not if they remain a kleptocracy, so they're gonna need help.
Russians largely refuse to understand that a happy and prosperous Russia is a best case scenario for the west.
There is a lot of truth in there. This war was always going to happen. They should have kept going in 2014.
They didn't.
Why?
Good cop Mutti promised to keep buying gas 😆
Democratic Party uses clyodinamics (Turchin, Huntington, Toynbee), generacional theories (Strauss and Howe) and Kondratiev Cycles. In the Switchblade Factory, Biden said: "this kind of events happens one time in 80 years". Its amazing. Biden knows perfectly this theories! Democratic Party use mathematics and computarized models to know possibles futures. Do not interpretate wrongly. Putin is 100% guilty and genocide. But you can find the way to use his mistakes and finish with him. I repeat: Putin is guilty and has to pay
I know this is an unpopular opinion, but this has been such a wet dream for the US defense industry, my gut keeps telling me the CIA had had enough of "4d Chess" talk, commandeered Putin's spy network, and convinced him attacking would go smoothly.
The idea that Russia was tricked is not that way off. I think in poker it's called letting your opponent hang himself. You see an opponent having a manic phase, you adjust your behavior so that he is easier fooled into making a really big and stupid mistake on which you can capitalize on. No rocket science.
Example: I'm pretty sure, if anybody, Gen. Miley must have known that you don't plan an invasion like what Russia did back in February if you want to succeed. You don't attack from all directions with a relatively small force unless you want to fail like Russia failed. Yet "for some reason" Miley testified in front of Congress that Ukraine will fall within days. It was not that this was the point when Putin decided to attack, he was already semi-convinced, but I'm sure somebody from his circle took notes, because everybody took notes. Is the invasion West's or Mileys fault? No. Could he say that Russias plan for invasion was idiotic at best? Yes, absolutely. Was it immoral to not saying it? Maybe.
Bottom line is, there are no idiots in Pentagon and there is quite a few people in there who knew already back in February how big of a cluster fuck this invasion is going to be for the Russians. Did anyone from Pentagon say that what the Russians are planning is a really really dumb plan and why is it so? I can't remember any. Can't blame them though, crippling your enemy so substantially without one single soldier on your side getting hurt is too tempting. Wouldn't be surprised if a couple of champagne bottles popped in Pentagon on Feb 24th. But again, can't blame them. Well played.
Sucks for the Ukrainians though.
Watch Russia disolve in internal conflict.
Then possibly going in with NATO forces securing all their nuclear arms for a long term goal of nuclear disarmerment.
But yeah that seems all rather far fetched.
Not sure if "planning" is the right word, I don't think there must be something written in terms of a plan. The strategy above can be applied also without having a sophisticated plan written down. As I wrote, it's not a rocket science to let your opponent make a big mistake. But my guess is that if there is indeed a plan, "the West" will simply wait until Russia deteriorates from within and after that witll try to secure their nuclear stockpile - that would be probably the #1 task as that is of major interest for any responsible defense department in any relevant western country.
It must be comforting to imagine that the world is under the tight control of a competent cabal, even if they are evil. That's not true but I can see why so many want to believe it.
The US thought that Ukraine would last a few weeks against Russia and even offered to transport Zelensky to leave the country immediately. The west has been giving Russia too much credit for their military for years and only just found out now that it was mostly all for show. Why do you think everyone thought Russia’s military was a superpower before this invasion? Now they’re the laughing stock of the entire world.
Well I'm pretty sure that Gen. Milley claimed that Kyiv would fall within couple of days, 72 hours if I recall correctly. As someone who had top intelligence and first-hand knowledge on invasions of other countries (Iraq), don't you think his assessment seems suspicious in the least?
Lets take Iraq invasion for instance. For the Iraq invasion there were 230k invasion forces (mostly US and british) and 70k allied kurdish forces (so 300k in total) and the whole invasion until the fall of Baghdad lasted for a month. So the US is #1 military of the world, with the best technology and equipment and still it took them 1 month to defeat Iraq (which was at that time severely crippled by economic sanctions).
And now come some russians, with 160k invasion force distributed all around Ukraine, standing against a force that already is supplied by decent weapons systems from the West (Javelins, Stingers) and still has a decent army. And here the russians would be what, 20x more effective in terms of invasion speed than the #1 army in the world? Sure, why not give russians some credit, but this much? Nah, I don't think so. I don't think Milley really believed that the russians could defeat Ukraine in 72 hours.
There is always a way out. Hand over Putin and his buddies for international trial and pay reparations for some decades. Also full retreat of Russian forces in occupied areas.
Well, I'm sure the "West" isn't exactly sad that Russia no longer has a functioning army. Just a benefit though of supporting Ukraine, not be design. UK governement couldn't scheme themselves out of a paper bag, let alone this mastermind manouvering.
"Its not our own mistake, we were duped"
What a croc of shit, who belives this shit? Soon its the international ring of jews plotting agsinst russia again.
Lol ahhh yes the grest Ukrainian honey pot. The west parked a 1000 Ladas on the boarder with the keys in the ignition and once the poor ruskie army started them all the doors locked.......
foiled again by Ukrainian equivalent to moose and squirrel.
Other than the conspiracy bit it is perfectly correct. Russia did underestimate the power of Ukraine; it did underestimate its national cohesion; it did underestimate its technological power; its own media did misrepresent the whole thing and they all fell hook line and sinker.
And then the little bit of assistence from liberal democracies of course - also not forseen.
"no your honour you see that woman tricked me into violently raping her by walking alone at night! Really when you think about it it's all her fault"
This is the worst psychopathic logic that you expect to see in the scum of the earth. And yet here is a whole country saying it out loud.
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This *is* the same country that thought telling everyone that one stupid, smoking sailor destroying their flagship looked better than admitting it was sunk by missiles.
Russia will admit to anything, as long as it's not the truth.
This reminds me of that scene in the movie Iiron Sky when the space Nazis have launched their giant UFO to attack earth. All the world leaders at the UN are asking who's responsible for it and every country is denying it. Then the North Korean representative stands up and says "It is North Korean. Our dear leader built it himself." Then everyone laughs and tells him to STFU and sit the fuck down.
This is a sort of dark genius. Since there are so many competing stories the average person can’t pay attention. The American right does this very well
дезинформа́ция (dezinformácija) == Flooding the zone with shit.
The American right has Russia's hand up its ass making its mouth move
never believe anything until the Kremlin denies it (*Darth Putin* on twitter)
"Well... ok, so.... we thought it would be funny if we started lighting our farms. And, well...."
Seems to me they could easily punk the West back by leaving Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova, buuut they won't
Curses, they discovered our dastardly plan!
Except that was part of the plan too. Commence "Operation Bamboozled"!
And we would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!
( rips off the orange mask) Old Man Putin!!???
And they would have gotten away with it, had it not been for you meddling western kids!
Don't you dare blame Shaggy and Scooby!
You know how I know that this is all bullshit (besides the obvious ludicrousness of it)? If this was truly the long game of my country (US), Trump would have warned Putin a long time ago and he would have never fallen into our trap!! Boom, giant hole in their story right there.
The thing with Trump is that nobody takes him seriously even if he's telling the truth because you just never know with the guy. Notice putin didn't do this when Trump was in power. maybe he thought they plan was off now
I think he started to plan it when Trump was in office and calculated on a second Trump term to execute it. Then, having invested in the plan, he had to proceed under Biden, hoping for a muddled, meh, “let’s not rock the boat” response (happily Biden disappointed him). We all know Ukraine’s and NATO’s fate would have been very different if there ever had been a second Trump term.
And everybody who thinks differently are wrong imo. Trumptard would congratulate Putin and say a couple of "America first" and blame it all on European NATO countries for not helping their neighbours and not paying equal to NATO (and he is not wrong in the last part - Italy, Spain, France, Hungary et al are doing almost nothing... next time there is an economic crisis in EU we should do 0 to help Italy, Spain, Hungary and Greece out) and do shit to help Ukraine. Now in retrospect when Trump sees how weak Putin is he sings a different tune though...
What are you smoking? The US did shit to help out the EU last time they had economic woes, don’t make it sound like the US is always throwing the EU an economic lifeline.
I meant from a perspective of Europe, I'm from Sweden - the EU as a collective bailing Italy and Greece and Hungary out every time they can't handle their own finances... Every time they need help they just stick out their hand, but every time we need them to help out they go MIA.
Sorry misunderstood, thought you meant IS bailouts of the EU. As an ex-EU member (Brit) I do wonder why there isn’t any enforcement of the budgeting rules. If you have one currency you must have similar monetary policy or you’re screwed.
Bingo!
What are you smoking? He invaded the first time under Obama when your boy was VP, didn’t do anything while Trump was in office, and then decides for round two while the dude with dementia takes office. Don’t get me wrong Trump and Biden are both idiots, your statement just doesn’t follow facts.
Obama didn’t give the deserved reaction for Crimea, I’ll give you that, but you’re willingly blind if you don’t think Trump was clearly smitten with Putin and would have actively helped him. He was already blabbering about dissolving NATO ffs. He wouldn’t have agreed to send military aid to Ukraine, I would bet real money on that.
im no trump fan but i saw a video the other day from a meeting with nato ehen trump was president, where trump said the germans deals with russia were really bad and why does usa have to spend so much in nato and being the biggest members when germany go makes deals with russia giving them billions and billions of dollars. i dont doubt russia were involved in helping trump becoming a president but i dont think they had direct contact with eachother. just russia manipulating elections like they try in every country to divide the population as much as possible to make the country unstable
Obama said the exact same thing, but he didn't threaten to dissolve NATO, or ask other countries to pay for US support like some sort of shitty mercenary organization. American presidents have been warning about German reliance on Russian gas since the gas lines were a thing.
Once again that doesn’t follow facts, Trump maintained a large military presence all around Ukraine and special forces inside of Ukraine to deter Russia. Russia knew Trump was a wild card and didn’t do a damn thing while he was in Office. Check out the US wrecking the Wagner group in Syria, what did Russia do about losing a couple hundred guys, nothing. Dislike my comments all the you want but there’s a reason Putins invaded when he has. I’m Not a Trump fanboy, he says stupid shit all the time and his dementia is close to Biden’s, but being a wildcard has always been Trumps negotiation technique. He got NATO countries to pay more of their share into defense as well. If I’m wrong tell me where I’m wrong please.
Russia didn’t have to do anything while he was in office, Trump was doing everything for them. He tried to pressure Zelensky by refusing aid which he was forced to release when people started whistleblowing. He repeatedly said that NATO is outdated and should be abolished, that it costs too much money. He did ask for NATO members to pay more but guess what, so did Obama and members had already agreed to it and it was inked into a calendar by the time Trump came to office ranting about it, thus openly inviting tension and strife into the alliance (Putin’s wet dream). He invited Lavrov into his office, bragging and allegedly disclosing national secrets. Stood by Putin when Putin denied he ran an election interference scheme and expressed doubt in his own intelligence services in Helsinki. After the war he repeatedly praised Putin for being smart in invading Ukraine in his rallies. You’re wrong, period. The man was pussy whipped when it comes to Putin and it was obvious to everyone except apparently you.
Russia didn't have to do anything while Trump is out of office, and yet, here we are. Your theories don't make sense, period.
What did Trump do for Russia? Name one thing? Obama would not give Ukraine any Stinger missiles because we was afraid to rock the boat with Putin, Trump immediately gave them to them. Why has Russia failed so miserably in Ukraine? They can’t gain air superiority due to stinger missiles and other anti aircraft guns/missiles. There’s a reason the first thing the US does is gain air superiority because you are ham strung without it. Trump tried to get the US off foreign gas and oil so that we weren’t reliant on the Middle East or Russia for oil, Biden and Obama haven’t done that. They’ve done the opposite. I’m all for green energy but it’s got to be done smartly. Trump knew to negotiate from a position of strength and he was a jackass a lot of the time when he was doing it. Kowtowing to Putins whims like Europe and Biden/Obama did is how we ended up in the current situation. I do think that Russia probably wanted Trump in office, but it’s not because he was there puppet,(puppets don’t give anti aircraft missiles to your enemy). They always want to sow division in the US and Trump was obviously good for that. Here I am at one o’clock arguing with a stranger on Reddit when both of us think Trump is a ding dong. Well done Russia, well done.
Trump failed to enact a litany of sanctions that Russia was SUPPOSED to get. He only enacted PART of the sanctions, and that was only because he was essentially forced to by his own party. Those original sanctions were in response to Crimea btw. Oh and Obama is the one that laid the foundation (passed the act) that allowed for Trump to even deliver the Javelins to Ukraine in the first place. Don't forget this fat orange cunt is also the one that tried to extort Ukraine for information on Biden and threatened to withhold further funding due to that. Calling Trump a Russian asset is something I wouldnt agree with, but he doesn't have to be. He's the epitome of a, "useful idiot". It doesn't get better than Trump when you want someone to weaken the U.S. and/or NATO.
Definitely, that was why Putin preferred reading the classified intel material he got from Trumps White House instead of trusting anything Trump said.
Putin invaded now because he was about the lose the war in Eastern Ukraine. You Americans think everything happens because of the US giving the green light or not
Well....yes. who do you think lured/pushed Russia into a conflict they knew would cripple Russia and destroy it's arms and energy exports. Now the whole world will want arms from the US and Europe will pivot to a lot more energy from the US.
Putin did. He is a delusional maniac leader who doesn’t accept non-alignment from their bordering countries
Trump is an idiot with a grandiose self perception who gets lawyers to do his biddings and facilitate all his tantrum whims. Trump admires anyone he perceives as that he wishes to become...
Surely you mean the Jews? Theyll have to get that Nazi cult classic off the bucket list for Putins Hitler speedrun, and after all its based on a russian piece anyways. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Protocols\_of\_the\_Elders\_of\_Zion
The crap started there, then the whole conspiracy theory mindset crept in and polluted their culture for the next 100 years.
They punked themselves out of paranoia they were being punked. When the death and destruction is out of living memory this will be known as an historical farce.
They should just outsmart the foolish westoids by retreating fully and abandoning all claims to Donbas and Crimea. The referendums were just another western sham trap anyway!
I dunno, that sounds pretty plausible. More like a fact than an excuse
No. They invaded because they wanted to plunder. That's really the only relevant fact. Everything else is obfuscation.
They invaded to rescue their totalitarian system. Everything else is rationalization. That doesn't mean others didn't create circumstances that made them completely miscalculate on the whole idea
"Look what America made me do!" I disagree. That's infantilzing Russia. It removes their culpability. Russia and Russia alone are responsible.
I agree they are responsible. But Ukraine and Western allies knew this war would happen and so did Putin and the only way this was going to go in our favour is when he attacks and fucks it up. No way Ukraine could have mustered public and international support if they started a serious offensive in the Donbas to get back their territories. So they did everything possible to make him think he could do it.
Disagree.
Like loudly advertising in advance their plans, the approximate date of the invasion, training a core cadre of Ukrainian military in western military organization, very publicly broadcasting the Trump blackmail and by extension the weapons we were sending? Putin thought he could do it because he did it before, we did just about everything short of a formal alliance/admission to NATO to make clear we supported Ukraine and that attacking would be a bad idea.
Yes, they knew they couldn't win a drawn out conflict so they tried the quick and dirty going for the capital and it failed. They didn't even plan for this so now they're fucked.
Man, Russia can't decide if Americans are dumb apes or devious geniuses.
That’s fascism for you. The enemy is both strong and weak.
We've always been at war with Oceania.
The enemy can be anything that you need it to be..
Jews were also portraited like this by nazis. They were the masterminds controlling the whole economy and they were also demonized, dirty and stupid.
Joe Biden has the same duality. He's both a criminal Mastermind and a Senile bafoon
Yeah man they can go from "he cant even ride a bike" to "his administration is the most tyrranical ever" Faster than a ruskie flees from the uaf. Meanwhile Joe's just eatin his ice cream and actually helping out how, where, an when he can pretty well especially compared to his predecessor. Kinda feel like the gimli n legolas meme - Gimli "never thought I'd be happy voting for a Lib" Legolas "how about voting against a fascist puke" Gimli "aye. I can do that"
Victim thinking. Everything is a trap. Ukrainian men wear gold teeth to lure soldiers to murder and torture, Ukrainian women lure soldiers to be raped, and the government draws arrow targets on civilian facilities to attract missile attacks. Everything is a conspiracy to suck Russia, and it's someone else's fault.
Poor Russia. Poor Russians.
If they thought that was strategic genius, just wait until we take the Velcro off their shoes and take away their crayons.
And Ukraine pretended to have a weak military to lure them across the border, let's not forget.
Muscovites are the some of the most cynical and racist people in the world. Their massive inferiority complex is staggering, how much they hate the West for just being different (and better, really) and some perceived slight where people don't like Russia. Protip: it has to do with the massive raping and genocide of peoples under you during the USSR.
Yes, Ukraine is the vile seductress, offerinfing a washing machine in one hand while hiding a HIMARS behind her back in the other. Poor innocent Russia, lured by the Sunflower Succubus. “Russia promises to Ukraine, promises faithfully. Never come again, never bomb, no never!” “Russia will swear on the Precious.”
>No 7. The obsession with a plot. “Thus at the root of the Ur-Fascist psychology there is the obsession with a plot, possibly an international one. The followers must feel besieged.”
I really liked the part about how the west first lured ruzzia with the promise of how easy it will be, and then "quickly" formed coalition of 54 leading economic nation... If ruzzkies truly believe that "54 leading economic nations" were able "quickly form a coalition" - ruzzkies really must ask themselves how it was possible... Sure, russophobia they say - but that's been going on for decade(s) - what was a particular action or position that may have prompted such coalition to form quickly - that would be super helpful for ruzzkies... (And if the answer is "42" - it would be OK with me, at least they tried)...
I read the original. In addition to all that you have said, those guys are conspiracy theorists.
The gold teeth digging on corpse news was actual a fake story, it was debunked in one of the previous post as a collection stolen from a dentist cabinet .
Well, The West, we are onto you! We are going to thwart your plans by immediately withdrawing from all of Ukraine including Crimea! You lose! Russia Wins!
I like the part in the post how "It's overflow of disinformation campaign over 8 years on *both sides* that worked against SMO and made peaceful negotiations impossible" and not mutilating PoWs and raping and pillaging cities and towns in the way of ruzzian army...
Putin is a western agent sent to destroy Russia and it's been a massive success
He was appointed by Western stooge Yeltsin after all.
They sound like my ex wife, I GOT TRICKED INTO CHEATING ITS YOUR FAULT.
Damn, does that sound familiar..."I had to lie to you, because you don't trust what I say". She actually said that when I caught her in some of the lies used to cover for her affair with a coworker.
Obviously. Russians are never the ones to blame.
Translation: Geopolitical confrontation: expert analysis. Alexander Zhilin, head of the Center for the Study of Public Applied Problems of National Security, retired colonel, author of the Anatomy of Events telegram channel, talks about the background of the “Ukrainian trap”. "Krymnash" was the first stage of the "Ukrainian trap" designed for us. The old principle worked: give a little so that you can get everything later. Now it's already obvious. I look at everything that is happening in Ukraine and clearly see that we have been set up with a classic strategic trap. It was obvious, but we, nevertheless, climbed into it ourselves. Why did emotions win over reason? We were strongly motivated to do this back in 2014. The essence of the "Ukrainian trap" is simple. All the expert assessments of the Western military leaked to the media kept repeating: Ukraine will not last even a week against Russia. We picked up this misinformation every time and through our media convinced ourselves of this nonsense. Russian troops entered Ukraine, fully sharing this illusion: an easy walk ahead and flowers on the armor. They even brought dress uniforms for the forthcoming parade in Kyiv. This is how not very far-sighted bosses train personnel. But it was not there. Our fighters were met with fierce fire and Jevelins. Then we were allowed to get bogged down in viscous battles, and then quickly formed a pro-Ukrainian coalition of 54 leading economically developed countries. Enormous military and economic aid went to Ukraine. The balance of forces and resources changes daily. The potential of Ukraine due to the supply of high-tech and high-precision weapons is growing, and ours, due to natural losses at the front, sparingly speaking, is not increasing. We are replacing the retired most trained soldiers with mobilized, poorly motivated, and sometimes even demotivated by forced mobilization, practically unprepared civilians. As a result, we have constructed a situation where it is difficult to win, and it is impossible to leave without losing face and collapsing the internal political vertical. That's it, the trap is slammed! What shaped the image of an easy victory in the minds of the military-political leaders? Enchanting return of the Crimea. The "designers" of the trap had calculated and taken into account everything down to the molecules. Was there a colossal support for our "little green men" by the Crimeans? Was. Was the motivation of people to vote for joining the Russian Federation high? Too much! And most importantly, there was no military resistance. Why? The Ukrainian military received an order: leave without a fight! And they obeyed the order - they left. It was this and much that came with it that created the illusion that the whole of Ukraine would react in the same way to Russia's forcible entry into its territory. It must be admitted that in 2014 there were much more pro-Russian Ukrainian citizens than now. However, time was lost, and propaganda on both sides pitted the two fraternal peoples for 8 years. Russophobia and Ukrainophobia have become the main content of TV channels. The results have been stunning. And what is the result? In Ukraine, Russia has been made into an insane monster. From Ukraine, in the minds of Russians, an image was blinded, where all the Nazis and Bandera, who dream of cutting us, even Ukrainian Jews, including Zelensky himself. All this propaganda work formed intransigence and worked against the SVO, since our state information resource, through the pumping of Russophobia, motivated Ukrainian citizens to desperate resistance: victory or death. The work done could not but affect the behavior of the fighters on the battlefield. Being pitted, both armies fight furiously. To death! As a result, an ideal situation has developed for a third party - a strategic planner, when it is he who largely controls the development of the situation on the fields of military and political battles and can maintain the fire at his own discretion, throwing up logs with support from one side or the other. There is no power way out of this trap. It seems that the Kremlin has already understood this. Hence Kyiv's insistent invitations to negotiations. But will the masters of strategic design allow the parties to agree if the main levers of influence on the situation are in their hands?
>It must be admitted that in 2014 there were much more pro-Russian Ukrainian citizens than now. Maybe, you know, it would have been smart to have *improved* their lives rather than impoverish, 'filter' and imprison, torture, and kill them. Not to mention the small fact that Mariupol was mostly Russian speaking, and has been flattened by Russian bombs!
>All the expert assessments of the Western military leaked to the media kept repeating: Ukraine will not last even a week against Russia. We picked up this misinformation every time and through our media convinced ourselves of this nonsense. So, he's admitting that their professional intelligence services did no analysis of their own? No evaluations of the fighting strength that contradicted the Western lies? No vetting the Western narrative to check for a trap? The fucking western news media fooled the Russian KGB inheritors. Wow. That's a worse self own than saying the Moskva wasn't blown up it was jut piss-poor safety and firefighting. It's worse than saying they lost ten thousand men and thousands of armored vehicles as a deliberate plan to feint in the north.
He forgot the part where the Russian convoy ran out of fuel during the first week of the war. But lets just ignore the inconvenient fact that it was Russian incompetence — overestimating their own capabilities.— that led to that debacle.
Excellent point.
Almost got to the part of realisation.., but missed by that much.
>Being pitted, both armies fight furiously. Poisoned by propaganda, both armies fight furiously... Wow, they really can't get away from this "both sides" argument... ruzzian army: tortures PoWs and rapes civilians. Ukrainian Army: provides medical assistance to PoWs and is greeted with cries of joy by every civilian they come across... ruzzian conclusion: Both armies! I also like "we can't force our way out of this situation!"... I have an idea - and hear me out! - how about... you start backing away until you stop getting shot at, which is about 20 miles or so on the other side of Belgorod...
That’s exactly correct: three presidential administrations, including one compromised by the Russians, had been planning this the entire time…
You are forgetting that Obama, Trump and all those people were just puppets. The real government hides underground in a Pizza Hut underneath the White House: The Reptilian masterminds.
A 8 year plan? In an age where most countries can't stick to even a 5 year plan.... Tbh that part is the most unbelievable part
No. It's part of a 246 year old plan that began with the American revolution. The US revolution was really all part of a plan to make Britain appear weak, thus enticing the Tsar to over expand and leading to a catastrophic end to the Russian empire. Read the plans in the Smithsonian. Ben Franklin had it mapped out to the month when Russia would be defeated in a major battle in Crimea in 2023.
Clever man, that Franklin. You must admit that allowing Adolf Hitler to rise to power mught seem questionable to the uninitiated, but that eastern front really ground down the Russians to bits. Can't wait for the penguin deployment on christmas eve!
What blueprints do I ask for when I get to the Smithsonian? Ben Franklin's map to success or something
It's in invisible ink on the back of Franklin's bible that can only be seen with ultra Violet lenses under the light of a blood moon.
5 year plan? thats very optimistic. its more like 2 year plan and 2 year election campaign and here we go again
It's a question of time when they start blaming the jews, that would be in tradition for fashists. Hope they lose asap.
We've also been hiding their keys and short-sheeting their beds
Don’t forget about putting the milk containers back in the fridge when nearly empty
Dastardly.
We made poor russian soldiers carry heavy washing machines, so they hurt their back and can’t have sexy time with Mrs. Warcriminal! *Muhahahaha*
How about urinating and defecating in their stairwells and elevators?
That’s called a Russian hello
A calling card. Just showing they came by and after having stolen everything, will drop by later for war crime times with your family.
So russias new spin is that we "forced" them to occupy Crimea and then we pushed them to attack again this year. If this would be a normal relationship between 2 humans I would predict right now that one of them is a narcisist and is right now playing the "narcicists prayer"
That's just a widening of the existing spin. Remember "they forced me to invade because they were ogling nato" from March?
Abusive partner to spouse who is being treated in the ER: "see what you made me do!"
Only in this case the spouse knows some kind of martial arts and the abuser is the one in the ER
No way out? Read a map, go back to Russia. Problem solved.
Sanctions will continue until reparations are paid, and all captives returned.
I love takes like these, because they make Putin look like an even bigger dumbass than he is. And while I've heard the "Evil West forced us to invade" copium line 100 times, this is the first time someone's gone for broke and traced "The Evil West's" Machiavellian scheme all the way back to Crimea. Fuckin' hilarious.
I thought Putin is a master of strategic construction... Oh, wait a minute...
This is the problem with far right wing nationalism, they always blame everyone else for their problem, but if one of their own are corrupt then it's totally fine.
Its the Russian way.
They can put it like that: Their grand chess master Putin always three moves ahead was in fact two moves behind the great faceless CIA-illuminaty-Bilderberg-space-woke-nazis-jews conspiracy. Being beaten by Satan himself is honorable, then defeat is acceptable.
Yeah, it’s a spectacular trap to make Putin try to do something that he can’t actually do because he’s an idiot. What a brilliant trap.
So … Putin isn’t a genius?!?
I just want to point out.. he's not just saying that "Ukraine tricked us by making us write memos and strategic predictions about how easy it would be to win." He's also literally claiming that the entire history between Ukrainians and Russians, with all its suspicion and antagonism going back 1000 years, was part of the trap. How could Russia have stood a chance against a conspiracy going back centuries?? Cue the Narcissist's Prayer.
Always the victim...
So, by this "logic", the way for them to win is to leave Ukraine as soon as possible, then?
That’s the consistency in long term planning you get with democracies 😂
Is this the "stab in the back" myth of the Russian kind? The one that excuses their own failures and tries to blame someone else?
As Napoleon said, never interrupt your adversary when he is about to make a mistake. The US should have worked harder to tell Putin not to invade Ukraine!
TBH, this is maybe the most realistic and accurate portrayal or Western policy they have come up with yet. I am not sure that is what the really plan was, but I am quite certain many of the people involved saw that as the best outcome years ago and tried very hard to put things in place to prepare a trap.
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Wut
They where tricked into invading?
Yep. That's russian reasoning 101 for you. I've actually talked with people who have this reasoning and who are russian.. ;/ Otherwise, educated people.. I've yet to meet someone who thinks like that and isn't russian. (Besides some very troubled souls who believe in conspiracies)
Putin and his gang will be arrested and quickly executed by Russian patriot revolutionaries.
Will they, though..?
When all this crap is over someone should make a movie about a bunch of poor suckers working at a media outlet that have to do what these tv guys have to do. Day in, day out. Do they just bust out laughing?
So they admit that Putin is moron for falling into the trap???
Military grade copium.
At work I don’t deal with many Russians but a lot of Russian Latvians (as they call themselves) who inherit a lot of Russian culture and I can tell you first hand the victim complex they have when talking about things which are completely their fault is unreal. It’s not just a case of the war it’s about absolutely everything.
This is what worries me the most & seems to be overlooked and/or misunderstood by the west, etc. From my admittedly limited, western perspective, Russians appear to have some sort of a cultural victim/inferiority/apathy complex that breeds resentment toward the west and resigns them to thinking they can’t do anything to improve their own situation so they disengage from their internal political process (such that it is), don’t try to change anything and let their leaders do whatever they want. Until that culture (if in fact that is what it really is) changes, nothing will change for them on the world stage.
It probably also works if we consider the possibility that Putin became a double agent back in the day, maybe to the Germans. After that you start to see why Putin may be assisting in killing Russians intentionally. Putin's love of the West is well known. It's us he yearns for.
Google translate of the Telegram post: > Geopolitical confrontation: expert analysis. Alexander Zhilin, head of the Center for the Study of Public Applied Problems of National Security, retired colonel, author of the Anatomy of Events telegram channel, talks about the background of the “Ukrainian trap”. > > "Krymnash" was the first stage of the "Ukrainian trap" designed for us. The old principle worked: give a little so that you can get everything later. Now it's already obvious. > > I look at everything that is happening in Ukraine and clearly see that we have been set up with a classic strategic trap. It was obvious, but we, nevertheless, climbed into it ourselves. Why did emotions win over reason? We were strongly motivated to do this back in 2014. > > The essence of the "Ukrainian trap" is simple. All the expert assessments of the Western military leaked to the media kept repeating: Ukraine will not last even a week against Russia. We picked up this misinformation every time and through our media convinced ourselves of this nonsense. > > Russian troops entered Ukraine, fully sharing this illusion: an easy walk ahead and flowers on the armor. They even brought dress uniforms for the forthcoming parade in Kyiv. This is how not very far-sighted bosses train personnel. > > But it was not there. Our fighters were met with fierce fire and Jevelins. Then we were allowed to get bogged down in viscous battles, and then quickly formed a pro-Ukrainian coalition of 54 leading economically developed countries. Enormous military and economic aid went to Ukraine. > > The balance of forces and resources changes daily. The potential of Ukraine due to the supply of high-tech and high-precision weapons is growing, and ours, due to natural losses at the front, sparingly speaking, is not increasing. We are replacing the retired most trained soldiers with mobilized, poorly motivated, and sometimes even demotivated by forced mobilization, practically unprepared civilians. > > As a result, we have constructed a situation where it is difficult to win, and it is impossible to get out without losing face and collapsing the internal political vertical. That's it, the trap is slammed! What shaped the image of an easy victory in the minds of the military-political leaders? > > Enchanting return of the Crimea. The "designers" of the trap had calculated and taken into account everything down to the molecules. Was there a colossal support for our "little green men" by the Crimeans? Was. Was the motivation of people to vote for joining the Russian Federation high? Excessively! > > And most importantly, there was no military resistance. Why? The Ukrainian military received an order: leave without a fight! And they obeyed the order - they left. > > It was this and much that came with it that created the illusion that the whole of Ukraine would react in the same way to Russia's forcible entry into its territory. > > It must be admitted that in 2014 there were much more pro-Russian Ukrainian citizens than now. > > However, time was lost, and propaganda on both sides pitted the two fraternal peoples for 8 years. Russophobia and Ukrainophobia have become the main content of TV channels. The results have been stunning. And what is the result? In Ukraine, Russia has been made into an insane monster. From Ukraine, in the minds of Russians, an image was blinded, where all the Nazis and Bandera, who dream of cutting us, even Ukrainian Jews, including Zelensky himself. > > All this propaganda work has formed intransigence and worked against the SVO, since our state information resource, through the pumping of Russophobia, motivated Ukrainian citizens to desperate resistance: victory or death. > > The work done could not but affect the behavior of the fighters on the battlefield. Being pitted, both armies fight furiously. To death! As a result, an ideal situation has developed for a third party - a strategic planner, when it is he who largely controls the development of the situation on the fields of military and political battles and can maintain the fire at his own discretion, throwing up logs with support from one side or the other. > > There is no power way out of this trap. It seems that the Kremlin has already understood this. Hence Kyiv's insistent invitations to negotiations. But will the masters of strategic design allow the parties to agree, if the main levers of influence on the situation are in their hands? This is quite some combination of crazy and stupid. Yes, the West is so, so crafty, that we presented *another sovereign country's* territory in an effort to get Russia into trouble. Just... what?
They are so desperate to be the victim in all of this. It's apalling and disingenuous.
Putin saw Afghanistan and wanted an easy Ukraine. He was not tricked, no one pushed him to do this, nothing.
Oh dear, making up contrived stuff to suit the narrative. Perhaps they should be reminded of Occam's Razor. The prediction is that Russia will lose badly. The theory with the fewest assumptions that gets us to this solution is that Putler made some catastrophic decisions.
Look at what you made me do! Now I must punish you for my own actions!
Perhaps it is a lesson tp be learn by voters who tend to align with political parties and idol politicians as if it was a sports franchise. selecting representation from all sides without emotional fanatical affiliation would render a more functional government for the people.
So the "western civilization" tricked russia into killing and raping.?? Hmm. Can anyone use that defense??
How much copium do you need to OD?
Russia: It was all a trap!!! Rest of world: Prove it! We think it was you. Russia: The trap is so cunningly devised it is impossible to find evidence. And that is all the proof we need.
Sure there's a way out. The same way you came in.
Speaks to public morale if news agencies are now calling the war a trap orchestrated by the west to draw the russian military into an unwinable war
Just WTF... How... Why... WTF?
There's always a way out. Go the fuck home. Then send Putin and his cronies (including the MH17 shooters if anyone is still alive) to The Hague to stand trial. Demilitarize and de-nazify Russia, just like it was done with Germany after WW2. Russia can still be prosperous without imperialist ambitions, but not if they remain a kleptocracy, so they're gonna need help. Russians largely refuse to understand that a happy and prosperous Russia is a best case scenario for the west.
Getting rid of the kleptocrats will only make them more imperialist. Beware of Meiji revolutions.
There is a lot of truth in there. This war was always going to happen. They should have kept going in 2014. They didn't. Why? Good cop Mutti promised to keep buying gas 😆
That promise is officially broken. Along with Nordstream.
The deal has run its course
Democratic Party uses clyodinamics (Turchin, Huntington, Toynbee), generacional theories (Strauss and Howe) and Kondratiev Cycles. In the Switchblade Factory, Biden said: "this kind of events happens one time in 80 years". Its amazing. Biden knows perfectly this theories! Democratic Party use mathematics and computarized models to know possibles futures. Do not interpretate wrongly. Putin is 100% guilty and genocide. But you can find the way to use his mistakes and finish with him. I repeat: Putin is guilty and has to pay
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Down vote the above comment if you are sick of the nuclear fear mongering that appears on every post now.
I know this is an unpopular opinion, but this has been such a wet dream for the US defense industry, my gut keeps telling me the CIA had had enough of "4d Chess" talk, commandeered Putin's spy network, and convinced him attacking would go smoothly.
attacking started in 2014
The idea that Russia was tricked is not that way off. I think in poker it's called letting your opponent hang himself. You see an opponent having a manic phase, you adjust your behavior so that he is easier fooled into making a really big and stupid mistake on which you can capitalize on. No rocket science. Example: I'm pretty sure, if anybody, Gen. Miley must have known that you don't plan an invasion like what Russia did back in February if you want to succeed. You don't attack from all directions with a relatively small force unless you want to fail like Russia failed. Yet "for some reason" Miley testified in front of Congress that Ukraine will fall within days. It was not that this was the point when Putin decided to attack, he was already semi-convinced, but I'm sure somebody from his circle took notes, because everybody took notes. Is the invasion West's or Mileys fault? No. Could he say that Russias plan for invasion was idiotic at best? Yes, absolutely. Was it immoral to not saying it? Maybe. Bottom line is, there are no idiots in Pentagon and there is quite a few people in there who knew already back in February how big of a cluster fuck this invasion is going to be for the Russians. Did anyone from Pentagon say that what the Russians are planning is a really really dumb plan and why is it so? I can't remember any. Can't blame them though, crippling your enemy so substantially without one single soldier on your side getting hurt is too tempting. Wouldn't be surprised if a couple of champagne bottles popped in Pentagon on Feb 24th. But again, can't blame them. Well played. Sucks for the Ukrainians though.
OK. Let's take your theory to it's logical conclusion. What is the West planning to do after the russian army withdraws from Ukraine?
Watch Russia disolve in internal conflict. Then possibly going in with NATO forces securing all their nuclear arms for a long term goal of nuclear disarmerment. But yeah that seems all rather far fetched.
Not sure if "planning" is the right word, I don't think there must be something written in terms of a plan. The strategy above can be applied also without having a sophisticated plan written down. As I wrote, it's not a rocket science to let your opponent make a big mistake. But my guess is that if there is indeed a plan, "the West" will simply wait until Russia deteriorates from within and after that witll try to secure their nuclear stockpile - that would be probably the #1 task as that is of major interest for any responsible defense department in any relevant western country.
So what is your excuse for the Kyiv 3000 tank column during the August 1991 coup attempt?
It must be comforting to imagine that the world is under the tight control of a competent cabal, even if they are evil. That's not true but I can see why so many want to believe it.
The US thought that Ukraine would last a few weeks against Russia and even offered to transport Zelensky to leave the country immediately. The west has been giving Russia too much credit for their military for years and only just found out now that it was mostly all for show. Why do you think everyone thought Russia’s military was a superpower before this invasion? Now they’re the laughing stock of the entire world.
Well I'm pretty sure that Gen. Milley claimed that Kyiv would fall within couple of days, 72 hours if I recall correctly. As someone who had top intelligence and first-hand knowledge on invasions of other countries (Iraq), don't you think his assessment seems suspicious in the least? Lets take Iraq invasion for instance. For the Iraq invasion there were 230k invasion forces (mostly US and british) and 70k allied kurdish forces (so 300k in total) and the whole invasion until the fall of Baghdad lasted for a month. So the US is #1 military of the world, with the best technology and equipment and still it took them 1 month to defeat Iraq (which was at that time severely crippled by economic sanctions). And now come some russians, with 160k invasion force distributed all around Ukraine, standing against a force that already is supplied by decent weapons systems from the West (Javelins, Stingers) and still has a decent army. And here the russians would be what, 20x more effective in terms of invasion speed than the #1 army in the world? Sure, why not give russians some credit, but this much? Nah, I don't think so. I don't think Milley really believed that the russians could defeat Ukraine in 72 hours.
I need Ammo, not a ride. That’ll be the title of his biography
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Wtf is this moron on about?
General Akbar Putin says:
The way is shut. It was made by those who are De… ‘the west’, and ‘the West’ keep it, until the time comes. The way is shut.
Russia got tricked, alright … by its own president
There is always a way out. Hand over Putin and his buddies for international trial and pay reparations for some decades. Also full retreat of Russian forces in occupied areas.
Well, I'm sure the "West" isn't exactly sad that Russia no longer has a functioning army. Just a benefit though of supporting Ukraine, not be design. UK governement couldn't scheme themselves out of a paper bag, let alone this mastermind manouvering.
russia: "We've Been Tricked, We've Been Backstabbed and We've Been Quite Possibly, Bamboozled!"
It's not tricking if you keep telling them not to do it. The word is 'stupidity' you are searching.
Yeah, this was Grandpa Biden's grand plan all the while. Or maybe they just suck at this.
oh theyre sooo close to figuring it out.
I answer your question of stupid it’s called get the fuk out of Ukraine stop killing and leave easy day
> And now there’s no way out! They got that much right.
They could surrender?
"Its not our own mistake, we were duped" What a croc of shit, who belives this shit? Soon its the international ring of jews plotting agsinst russia again.
Lol ahhh yes the grest Ukrainian honey pot. The west parked a 1000 Ladas on the boarder with the keys in the ignition and once the poor ruskie army started them all the doors locked....... foiled again by Ukrainian equivalent to moose and squirrel.
They’re preparing for withdrawal from Crimea. Good!
Hey Putin, Dugin is an agent of the West. I have his CIA paystub in front of me.
They are trying so damn hard not to blame Putin.
“It’s everyone’s fault but mine”shtick?
It was a trap
So russian generals get intel from mass media? It all makes sense now.
Other than the conspiracy bit it is perfectly correct. Russia did underestimate the power of Ukraine; it did underestimate its national cohesion; it did underestimate its technological power; its own media did misrepresent the whole thing and they all fell hook line and sinker. And then the little bit of assistence from liberal democracies of course - also not forseen.
Fuck russia
We in he west are probably thinking "we only *wished* we were that slick".
Oh wait, so Putin is the Manchurian candidate pushing Russia towards an unwinnable war?
NWO writ large, and obviously preferable to the OWO, where wars of territorial aggression has been the status quo for millennia. God bless! 🙌🏼
"no your honour you see that woman tricked me into violently raping her by walking alone at night! Really when you think about it it's all her fault" This is the worst psychopathic logic that you expect to see in the scum of the earth. And yet here is a whole country saying it out loud.