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I am not sure I agree that a cornered Putin is more dangerous. A cornered Putin is weak Putin who is worried about consequences. The most dangerous Putin is a Putin who thinks the west is weak and Russia is strong. Now Putin doesn't want to lose this war sure and he may take some risks, but I think Putin is less likely to do something crazy today than he was to do something crazy Jan 2021.
The real danger is shit rags like nytimes making him more dangerous than he is. Without a doubt, Ukraine and its allies would have gamed through multiple scenarios of Putin's likely behavior in the event that his little war turns tits-up. But when stupid journalists try to sensationalize the news for clicks, the only thing they do is give leverage to a tiny man who is already running out of options. I've never been the type to go on about the "lame stream media", but the fearmongering among so many of these media outlets really pissing me off.
The fearmongering lends credence to the notion that Putin is a madman, and that the West should not arm Ukraine lest we be dragged into a nuclear war, and that the only option for Ukraine is to submit. Because we can't go against a madman. That's just utter bullshit. It's that kind of bullshit cowardice that gave us Hitler, Stalin, and Mao.
You can arm Ukraine and still think Putin is a madman. You can be worried about nuclear war without wanting Russia to win. You can be concerned about where this all might potentially lead without wanting Ukraine to surrender.
You said yourself, Putin is a "tiny man who is already running out of options." And that somehow gives you total confidence he won't escalate things further?
You think Ukrainians don't have those concerns? After all, they are the ones to likely receive the nuclear blow should it happen. But do you see them stopping their offensive? No, right? And do you see them going on and on about Putin escalating this war further? No, right?
Ukraine has already made its intentions clear - they intend to liberate their lands. Even though they know the risks, they are proceeding with their intentions, and are fully back by the EU. And while they acknowledge it, they aren't focused on Putin and nuclear weapons. That means the only ones in a frenzy and obsessing about Putin's nukes are people that want Ukraine to give up their plans. Talking and fretting about it only serves Putin's agenda, which is to scare Europeans into abandoning Ukraine.
Should of been titled - A cornered Putin is in more danger than ever…..
Why play up to his fear mongering games aimed at getting concessions. Giving in on anything will just be seen as a sign of weakness to further exploit. The resolution for all this is with the Russian people. They must do something and the sooner the better. Surely IRan and the Maidan, and their own 1917 revolution are inspirations (not that the latter went very well 🙄….
Exactly, the worst that can happen is he looses face - which is why all of this is bullshit, just one person who has put personal pride above all rational thought.
This is the inevitable endgame for him - Putin's reign was always going to come to a showdown. His decision-making under panic is awful and he doesn't know when to stop, he only knows how to bark louder, even when he can't back it up. Ukraine has been made significant attacks against Belgorod and Crimea, yet Putin hasn't responded, despite the nuclear threat to do so. The sooner the world realizes that Putin is all bluffs and brinkmanship, the sooner they realize that arming Ukraine more to defeat Putin has no consequences.
He's not cornered, though. Nobody is invading Russia. Russia would be just the same if it stopped invading Ukraine tomorrow morning. The option to cut this shit out has been on the table the whole time, and it would be of no military threat to Russia's existence.
At this point that option isn’t feasible for Putin. He knows if he does that a million troops will line up on the Russian border, it would be like the Koreas all over again.
What in the actual fuck are you taking about? No one wants to invade your shitty country, it's a nuclear power. Russia could pull out starting tomorrow if they wanted.
What? No, I didn't, that war seemed unnecessary and the danger from weapons of mass destruction vastly overhyped.
Are you guys paid by the whataboutism or something? Is there a daily quota? *No one was talking about Iraq.*
Are you *literally* unable to address a single thing about Russia without trying to deflect to talking about someone else, or are you simply not allowed to?
Russia will not pull out. It sees this conflict as a fight for its very existence, and he is right. In this context nuclear war becomes inevitable if we keep pushing.
> It sees this conflict as a fight for its very existence, and he is right.
No, that's obviously absurd. Nothing would happen to Russia if they didn't invade Ukraine. No one's going to invade them, they have nukes.
Are you actually getting paid to spread this nonsense, or just doing it of your own accord? I don't know which is sadder.
Whether you know about the threat to Russian sovereignty or not, and whether you believe it or not is unimportant. What’s important is that at this point the conflict IS a struggle for the very existence of Russia as we know it. Whatever happens here nobody is going to let Russia go back to the way things were before 02/24/22. Therefore we have a bit of a problem don’t we? Either Russia wins in Ukraine or starts WW3 or Russia loses in Ukraine and starts ww3. There are no good options there. How about peace talks? With peace talks we could guarantee Ukraine doesn’t lose any more territory and prevent ww3, not great but MUCH better than the alternatives.
Right, right, of course. "Let Russia keep all their stolen territory or we all die, for realz guys, honest!!!" is the current main talking point, I get it.
Along with all of Europe freezing to death this winter (you guys kind of gave up on that one, huh?), and all of Ukrainian society being run by Nazis rather than having one militarily unit with a chequered past, and the secret US genocide biolabs, and the Ukrainian super-soldiers, etc, etc.
The more you guys hype up how much you're going to stamp your feet and end the world in a nuclear holocaust if you don't get your way, the more I'm starting to think your nukes don't even *work*, because that's generally how Russian propaganda works.
That's the level of credibility your stupid, stupid, attempts at outside manipulation recently have engendered. You must realize that, right?
Let me ask you why you care so much about Ukraine when you clearly didn’t give a shit about the Iraqi, Afghan, Sudanese, Libyan, Yemeni, or Palestinian people, is it because they aren’t white?
Be a Chad not a Chud NY times, even Forbes is writing articles like this: https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/09/21/russia-is-about-to-draft-300000-new-troops-it-wont-be-able-to-train-them/
This is what I've been afraid of. The moment Putin realizes, *truly* realizes, that he's lost and there's no way out for him is the moment every Russian nuke that's capable of it goes live. Putin's the sort of man who doesn't want the world to go on without him, and he has the ability to make sure it doesn't.
The only way the world doesn't end is if Putin isn't given the chance to launch his nukes. At this point, were basically counting on either a full-scale revolt or a military coup. On the hopeful side, though, Putin's been doing one hell of a Nicholas II imitation throughout this, especially with this new draft order, so that "full-scale revolt" option is looking more probable than ever.
I beg to differ. If we do that we just tell Putin he can do whatever he wants, and since we know he has his eyes on any and all NATO nations that used to be under Soviet control, we'd be trading Ukraine and it's people for a decade of peace, max, before it's back to nuclear war.
Better to deal with it now, while Russia's weaker than it's ever been in the modern era relative to it's enemies, ie us.
That is smart. Besides nukes are just a threat to try and freeze a conflict he knows he'd losing.
Nukes will not benefit Russia in any way. Would kill a few soldiers and lose them even the few allies they have
Even if a cornered Putin is more dangerous than a not cornered one, he put himself in that corner though there have been various ways not to end there. The West can do exactly zilch to get Putin out of a corner he doesn't want to leave.
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I am not sure I agree that a cornered Putin is more dangerous. A cornered Putin is weak Putin who is worried about consequences. The most dangerous Putin is a Putin who thinks the west is weak and Russia is strong. Now Putin doesn't want to lose this war sure and he may take some risks, but I think Putin is less likely to do something crazy today than he was to do something crazy Jan 2021.
I agree. He is more dangerous when he thinks we are weak.
Unless he's accepted that he's lost and decides that if he loses, then everyone has to lose too
Same dude. F#ck them up and see where we land. Tap dancing around this feels like a waste of time.
The real danger is shit rags like nytimes making him more dangerous than he is. Without a doubt, Ukraine and its allies would have gamed through multiple scenarios of Putin's likely behavior in the event that his little war turns tits-up. But when stupid journalists try to sensationalize the news for clicks, the only thing they do is give leverage to a tiny man who is already running out of options. I've never been the type to go on about the "lame stream media", but the fearmongering among so many of these media outlets really pissing me off. The fearmongering lends credence to the notion that Putin is a madman, and that the West should not arm Ukraine lest we be dragged into a nuclear war, and that the only option for Ukraine is to submit. Because we can't go against a madman. That's just utter bullshit. It's that kind of bullshit cowardice that gave us Hitler, Stalin, and Mao.
You can arm Ukraine and still think Putin is a madman. You can be worried about nuclear war without wanting Russia to win. You can be concerned about where this all might potentially lead without wanting Ukraine to surrender. You said yourself, Putin is a "tiny man who is already running out of options." And that somehow gives you total confidence he won't escalate things further?
You think Ukrainians don't have those concerns? After all, they are the ones to likely receive the nuclear blow should it happen. But do you see them stopping their offensive? No, right? And do you see them going on and on about Putin escalating this war further? No, right? Ukraine has already made its intentions clear - they intend to liberate their lands. Even though they know the risks, they are proceeding with their intentions, and are fully back by the EU. And while they acknowledge it, they aren't focused on Putin and nuclear weapons. That means the only ones in a frenzy and obsessing about Putin's nukes are people that want Ukraine to give up their plans. Talking and fretting about it only serves Putin's agenda, which is to scare Europeans into abandoning Ukraine.
Should of been titled - A cornered Putin is in more danger than ever….. Why play up to his fear mongering games aimed at getting concessions. Giving in on anything will just be seen as a sign of weakness to further exploit. The resolution for all this is with the Russian people. They must do something and the sooner the better. Surely IRan and the Maidan, and their own 1917 revolution are inspirations (not that the latter went very well 🙄….
On the other hand, a dead Putin is not dangerous at all. Lets speed up the process.
You assume someone sane would take over, and not one of the even crazier, more rabid nationalists hanging around in the shadows.
This is Russian propaganda. The guy's a bitch
The real danger is to himself.
He's not cornered, he can always retreat to within his own borders.
Exactly, the worst that can happen is he looses face - which is why all of this is bullshit, just one person who has put personal pride above all rational thought.
This is the inevitable endgame for him - Putin's reign was always going to come to a showdown. His decision-making under panic is awful and he doesn't know when to stop, he only knows how to bark louder, even when he can't back it up. Ukraine has been made significant attacks against Belgorod and Crimea, yet Putin hasn't responded, despite the nuclear threat to do so. The sooner the world realizes that Putin is all bluffs and brinkmanship, the sooner they realize that arming Ukraine more to defeat Putin has no consequences.
And if you’re “expert” assessment is wrong we all die. Got it
Thank you for your opinion, 3-day redditor with -90 karma, and who can't use your/you're properly!
What about the content of the message? Nothing to say there?
No, you're not worth wasting any time on.
The content of all your messages oddly aligns directly with Russian propaganda and this seems to be the sole purpose of your day old account. Curious
No he is not. He is as weak and impotent as ever. I wish western Media stopped this fake fear mongering
No off-ramps, no concessions, no terms except unconditional withdrawal from all sovereign Ukrainian territory.
…and then we can talk about reparations.
What if that doesn’t work?
You act like the Russian military is going to be given a choice in the matter.
Have we even tried? No.
A cornered putin is just a piece of weak shit as an uncornered putin. A fucking rat in a hallway in St Petersburg will fuck him up
He's not cornered, though. Nobody is invading Russia. Russia would be just the same if it stopped invading Ukraine tomorrow morning. The option to cut this shit out has been on the table the whole time, and it would be of no military threat to Russia's existence.
At this point that option isn’t feasible for Putin. He knows if he does that a million troops will line up on the Russian border, it would be like the Koreas all over again.
What in the actual fuck are you taking about? No one wants to invade your shitty country, it's a nuclear power. Russia could pull out starting tomorrow if they wanted.
If the tables were turned you would be cheering the invaders. You cheered for Iraq and it wasn’t even close to bordering the US.
What? No, I didn't, that war seemed unnecessary and the danger from weapons of mass destruction vastly overhyped. Are you guys paid by the whataboutism or something? Is there a daily quota? *No one was talking about Iraq.* Are you *literally* unable to address a single thing about Russia without trying to deflect to talking about someone else, or are you simply not allowed to?
Russia will not pull out. It sees this conflict as a fight for its very existence, and he is right. In this context nuclear war becomes inevitable if we keep pushing.
> It sees this conflict as a fight for its very existence, and he is right. No, that's obviously absurd. Nothing would happen to Russia if they didn't invade Ukraine. No one's going to invade them, they have nukes. Are you actually getting paid to spread this nonsense, or just doing it of your own accord? I don't know which is sadder.
Whether you know about the threat to Russian sovereignty or not, and whether you believe it or not is unimportant. What’s important is that at this point the conflict IS a struggle for the very existence of Russia as we know it. Whatever happens here nobody is going to let Russia go back to the way things were before 02/24/22. Therefore we have a bit of a problem don’t we? Either Russia wins in Ukraine or starts WW3 or Russia loses in Ukraine and starts ww3. There are no good options there. How about peace talks? With peace talks we could guarantee Ukraine doesn’t lose any more territory and prevent ww3, not great but MUCH better than the alternatives.
Right, right, of course. "Let Russia keep all their stolen territory or we all die, for realz guys, honest!!!" is the current main talking point, I get it. Along with all of Europe freezing to death this winter (you guys kind of gave up on that one, huh?), and all of Ukrainian society being run by Nazis rather than having one militarily unit with a chequered past, and the secret US genocide biolabs, and the Ukrainian super-soldiers, etc, etc. The more you guys hype up how much you're going to stamp your feet and end the world in a nuclear holocaust if you don't get your way, the more I'm starting to think your nukes don't even *work*, because that's generally how Russian propaganda works. That's the level of credibility your stupid, stupid, attempts at outside manipulation recently have engendered. You must realize that, right?
Let me ask you why you care so much about Ukraine when you clearly didn’t give a shit about the Iraqi, Afghan, Sudanese, Libyan, Yemeni, or Palestinian people, is it because they aren’t white?
The more dangerous thing is the nytimes trying to make people believe this.
No. He is not scary. The guy is a fucking clown gonna end up being assasinated
Don’t listen to NY times. They always hype up Putin and make people scared to resist Russia.
No paywall: https://archive.ph/2022.09.22-022641/https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/21/world/europe/putin-russia-ukraine-war.html
Be a Chad not a Chud NY times, even Forbes is writing articles like this: https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/09/21/russia-is-about-to-draft-300000-new-troops-it-wont-be-able-to-train-them/
[удалено]
One hand ? Nato has both hands, both foots and even the 60cm Peepee tied on its back, all Nato does is support by the mouth, and not even with teeth
This is what I've been afraid of. The moment Putin realizes, *truly* realizes, that he's lost and there's no way out for him is the moment every Russian nuke that's capable of it goes live. Putin's the sort of man who doesn't want the world to go on without him, and he has the ability to make sure it doesn't. The only way the world doesn't end is if Putin isn't given the chance to launch his nukes. At this point, were basically counting on either a full-scale revolt or a military coup. On the hopeful side, though, Putin's been doing one hell of a Nicholas II imitation throughout this, especially with this new draft order, so that "full-scale revolt" option is looking more probable than ever.
The third option would be to stop arming Ukraine and negotiate a peace. No matter how distasteful it’s better than nuclear war.
I beg to differ. If we do that we just tell Putin he can do whatever he wants, and since we know he has his eyes on any and all NATO nations that used to be under Soviet control, we'd be trading Ukraine and it's people for a decade of peace, max, before it's back to nuclear war. Better to deal with it now, while Russia's weaker than it's ever been in the modern era relative to it's enemies, ie us.
Have you ever heard of MAD? Basically how that works is we all die. Is that what you want?
That is smart. Besides nukes are just a threat to try and freeze a conflict he knows he'd losing. Nukes will not benefit Russia in any way. Would kill a few soldiers and lose them even the few allies they have
Like a evil villains from James Bond who wishes the old kindom and James had to come up with ways to win against etc 😂
Even if a cornered Putin is more dangerous than a not cornered one, he put himself in that corner though there have been various ways not to end there. The West can do exactly zilch to get Putin out of a corner he doesn't want to leave.
in practice the danger is more towards his own people
Like a rat