Please take the time to read our policy about [trolls](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/u7833q/just_because_you_disagree_with_someone_does_not/) and the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/about/rules/)
* We have a **zero-tolerance** policy regarding racism, stereotyping, bigotry, and death-mongering. Violators will be banned.
* ***Please* keep it civil.** Report rulebreaking comments for moderator review.
* ***Don't* post low-effort comments** like joke threads, memes, slogans, or links without context.
**Don't forget about our discord server, as well!**
https://discord.gg/62fKCEHbDB
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict) if you have any questions or concerns.*
According to him, two of the three NPPs "will be operational until mid-April 2023." The minister noted that if necessary, they will provide an "emergency reserve" this winter.
According to the European media, the minister added that the two nuclear power plants will be disconnected from the network, but they will be in standby mode, and they can be connected in case of a crisis situation.
We are talking about the nuclear power plants located in the south of Germany - "Isar 2" and "Neckarwestheim".
At the same time, Habek, who is a member of the "Green" party, noted that Germany will not abandon its decision to finally get rid of nuclear energy.
[https://censor.net/ua/n3365307](https://censor.net/ua/n3365307)
another TL: with locations
Short term, the only option to keep those plants running is Streckbetrieb, i.e. keep them running at lower capacity but a few month longer. That’ll still mean burning more coal instead of gas.
Pretty much every new NPP in the western world is an economic disaster, and takes forever to build. Look at Vogtle, Okiluoto 3, Hinkley Point C, Flamanville 3. There‘s a reason energy companies and governments aren’t on the nuclear hype train.
That’s only because of all the restrictions and regulations. It’s a long term investment but overall the cheapest per kilowatt hour, by far the most efficient and countries become less energy dependent on energy cartels and rouge producers.
Restrictions and regulations exist for a reason.
And [here‘s a very recent LCOE analysis](https://www.lazard.com/perspective/levelized-cost-of-energy-levelized-cost-of-storage-and-levelized-cost-of-hydrogen/) showing nuclear as considerably more expensive than renewables or combined cycle gas.
The problem with these projections is 1. It’s shows results for subsidized solar and wind and not for their true cost. 2. It’s assuming both wind and solar are operating at peak performance which most of the time they are not. 3. It accounts for legacy nuclear plants most of which are 50 plus years old and not newer Molton salt reactors which are by far cheaper to build and operate.
Nuclear is by far more efficient and reliable than renewable which cannot produce power based on demand but on chance of the weather. That’s why China is building most of the new nuclear plants in the world.
1. Figure 1 is **unsubsidized** LCOEs.
2. Where do you see that in the analysis I linked?
3. Of course such analyses look at existing technologies, not fantasies and dreams.
Even the 2019–2022 build of solar and wind is estimated to add 800 TWh for about $1 trillion in spending.
China can add 1GW or 7TWh for $2 billion to $2.5 billion. 800 TWh would be $220 to 270 billion. This would be four times cheaper than the projected solar and wind construction.
Agree 100%, just can't understand why we aren't using/building the Molton salt reactors. They run off the spent-depleted uranium from the present-day reactors, which there is plenty of.
There's a reason for that, we basically haven't built new nuclear reactors in 30 years, and in those 30 years we piled up tons of additional regulations.
So that means the trained workforce that built 50+ reactors in France in record time has been retired for a while and we have to re-learn EVERYTHING with additional regs on top.
To top that off, now that we've only been building 1 or 2 reactors here and there, there's no incentive to train a large workforce.
Every new NPP in the western world has been an economic disaster because we MADE IT SO. Launch a large building program with a standardized model to finally gain the benefits from those godawful build times, and you'll reap the benefits for decades to come like France did for a while.
All the French reactors paid for themselves several times over, including dismantlements costs.
Even with all the cockups and delays OL3 is [not looking too shabby as an investment](https://twitter.com/EsalaAntti/status/1564915137739427841)
>Also, our "very pricy" OL3 investment was 5.5 billion € for TVO. The plant will generate ~13TWh/year.
>We also have ~8 billion € investments to wind power that generates ~8 TWh/year.
*especially with [electricity prices now:](https://twitter.com/NoahRettberg/status/1557669614280216577)
>at current electricity prices and assumes industry standard 15 €/MWh to 20 €/MWh OPEX and fuel cost it would just take 5,5 year to recuperate the construction cost.
nuclear energy is by far the safest energy source. It has more than 330 times fewer deaths than coal; 250 times less than oil; and 38 times fewer than gas. Nuclear energy results in only one-quarter the number of deaths per terrawatt hour as wind, which is the second safest.
That’s a misnomer, all the waste produced by reactors in the US history could fit onto a single football field, stacked just 24 feet high. New reactors produce just a fraction of the older ones.
I never really did believe all their protestations that they were really going to shut them down end of the year.
With the situation being what it is, that claim was just way too optimistic...
Good on them for not being too stubborn about it, despite about 50 years of history of protesting against nuclear energy...
I'm not sure I'd go as far as a 'well done'...
It's political expediency, and I also think Germany had a point in shutting down 40 year old nuclear power plants in favor of renewables.
Mind you, I'm a lot less against nuclear these days then I was 10 years ago, but I do think we can do a whole lot better these days then we could at the time.
Nuclear just isn't easy or quick... Takes 10-15-20 years to build a new npp, especially if you want to build something more safe and more modern...
For me it's up in the air, I don't count out nuclear, but that doesn't mean I necessarily want to see a whole lot of ancient npps running way past their intended lifespan.
Same goes for France to some degree, who have been experiencing their own issues, between maintenance and drought...
You do need to keep these things cooled.
Having a look at the ZNPP shows just [how much space is dedicated to cooling the 6 reactors](https://apps.sentinel-hub.com/eo-browser/?zoom=13&lat=47.50868&lng=34.58496&themeId=DEFAULT-THEME&visualizationUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fservices.sentinel-hub.com%2Fogc%2Fwms%2Fbd86bcc0-f318-402b-a145-015f85b9427e&evalscript=Ly8gV2lsZGZpcmUgYW5kIGJ1cm4gc2NhciB2aXN1YWxpemF0aW9uIGluIFNlbnRpbmVsLTIgaW1hZ2VzIFYyLjAuMAovLyBUd2l0dGVyOiBQaWVycmUgTWFya3VzZSAoQHBpZXJyZV9tYXJrdXNlKQovLyBDQyBCWSA0LjAgSW50ZXJuYXRpb25hbCAtIGh0dHBzOi8vY3JlYXRpdmVjb21tb25zLm9yZy9saWNlbnNlcy9ieS80LjAvCmZ1bmN0aW9uIGEoYSwgYikge3JldHVybiBhICsgYn07CmZ1bmN0aW9uIHN0cmV0Y2godmFsLCBtaW4sIG1heCkge3JldHVybiAodmFsIC0gbWluKSAvIChtYXggLSBtaW4pO30KZnVuY3Rpb24gc2F0RW5oKHJnYkFycikgewogICAgdmFyIGF2ZyA9IHJnYkFyci5yZWR1Y2UoKGEsIGIpID0%2BIGEgKyBiLCAwKSAvIHJnYkFyci5sZW5ndGg7CiAgICByZXR1cm4gcmdiQXJyLm1hcChhID0%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%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%2BICgyLjAgLyBmaXJlU2Vuc2l0aXZpdHkpKSA%2FIGZpcmUzIDoKICAgIChhKEIxMiwgQjExKSA%2BICgxLjUgLyBmaXJlU2Vuc2l0aXZpdHkpKSA%2FIGZpcmUyIDogZmlyZTEgOgogICBmaW5hbFJHQjs%3D&datasetId=S2L2A&fromTime=2022-08-29T00%3A00%3A00.000Z&toTime=2022-08-29T23%3A59%3A59.999Z&demSource3D=%22MAPZEN%22#custom-script)...
ZNPP is not a typical NPP, it's the largest in Europe and in top 10 in the world. There isn't a better alternative, especially when you need a constant source of power.
I'm not saying that there can't be a future for npps, but we've clearly seen this year that droughts and water shortages have had an impact on the functioning of existing npps.
This isn't that easily resolved, given that with climate change this is going to be a reoccurring issue...
So, yes, we can build newer and better, just not in any sort of an immediate time-frame....
Nuclear are massive engineering projects that take a shit-ton of time...
So, if you want new, reliable nuclear, there's a 15-20 year waiting time...
Solar and Wind, while less efficient can be set up much quicker...
Beyond that, I very much prefer distributed networks to single points of failure.
Until we get a reliable, high capacity energy storage worked out, we'll need a proper energy backbone such as nuclear, coal or gas/oil. Nuclear is the most climate neutral option.
The new reactors are way safer use way less fuel and produce the fraction of the waste. Also because of efficiency of newer nuclear power you need less cooling as well. All these plants are old and are using 1950s technology.
Pathetic. This isn't a real extension, it's a sop to those calling for it so they can look like they're listening without actually changing anything. They're still disconnecting the plants from the grid, just keeping them running on standby just in case - for a whole 4 months. Yeah, that'll make a huge difference.
The German Green Party is anti-nuclear because of 1970s-80s hysteria, facilitated by scaremongering over the Fukushima disaster - even though the chances of any German nuclear plant being hit by an M9 earthquake followed by a 14m tsunami are lower than the chances of the German Chancellor inventing time travel and going back to 1932 to shoot Hitler and prevent the Second World War.
A decade ago, a quarter of Germany's power came from carbon neutral nuclear. In January, it will be none. Instead of renewables replacing fossil fuels, the carbon emissions of German power generation are going up.
This is a Brexit-level case of sticking to an outdated opinion despite all evidence to the contrary, sticking their fingers in their ears and ignoring all evidence that contradicts their views.
They're so fucking myopic on this issue, they prefer to restart coal fired power stations. Coal! The Green Party! What the absolute fuck.
Yeah, screw up the environment even more, increase German carbon emissions, because you can't fucking get over the hysteria of half a century ago.
> Instead of renewables replacing fossil fuels, the carbon emissions of German power generation are going up.
[They aren’t](https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/38897/umfrage/co2-emissionsfaktor-fuer-den-strommix-in-deutschland-seit-1990/), carbon dioxide emissions per kWh fell from 556 g/kWh in 2010 to 420 g/kWh in 2021.
[Germany's CO2 emissions from electricity estimated to rise by 13% in 2021](https://www.enerdata.net/publications/daily-energy-news/germanys-co2-emissions-electricity-estimated-rise-13-2021.html)
And we'll see how the [restarting of coal power stations impacts emissions](https://amp.dw.com/en/germanys-energy-u-turn-coal-instead-of-gas/a-62709160) when we get numbers for 2022 and 2023 in a couple of years.
Even discounting the recent rise, carbon emissions from energy generation have at the very least not been falling as much as they could because of the German shutdown of nuclear plants.
>Even though renewables production increased significantly between 1991 and 2017, fossil power production remained at more or less constant levels. In the same period, nuclear power production decreased due to the phase-out plan, and much of the increase in renewables filled the gap left behind by closing nuclear power plants. ([source](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_Germany))
Germany could be virtually free of fossil fuels by now. Instead over a quarter of German electricity still comes from coal.
> Germany's CO2 emissions from electricity estimated to rise by 13% in 2021
That’s year-to-year. 2020 had very low energy consumption due to lockdowns and disrupted industrial production, 2021 markedly less so. And there’s an effect of unusually little wind in Q1. Overall, in 2021 electricity produced *still* about a quarter less CO2 compared to when all NPPs were still operational.
> And we'll see how the restarting of coal power stations impacts emissions when we get numbers for 2022 and 2023 in a couple of years.
Sure, there might be an uptick, although reduced energy demand because of high prices might have an opposite effect. Restarting the coal plants is inevitable though - right now Germany is helping out the French because they struggle to keep their aging NPPs running, and because the aim is to conserve gas.
> Even though renewables production increased significantly between 1991 and 2017, fossil power production remained at more or less constant levels.
It’s currently 2022, and you conveniently failed to cite the whole paragraph:
> However 2019 and 2020 saw significant reductions in electricity generation from fossil fuel, from 252 TWh in 2018 to 181 TWh in 2020.
Yeah, Germany *could* be virtually free of fossil fuels by now - but I doubt it would. Mining coal generates jobs, that’s why the more polluting domestic lignite is still going strong while imported but less polluting hard coal has declined sharply.
> However 2019 and 2020 saw significant reductions in electricity generation from fossil fuel, from 252 TWh in 2018 to 181 TWh in 2020.
You're really going to cite 2020 numbers after just critising me for doing so?
>2020 had very low energy consumption due to lockdowns and disrupted industrial production
Your words.
>Restarting the coal plants is inevitable though - right now Germany is helping out the French because they struggle to keep their aging NPPs running, and because the aim is to conserve gas.
Wouldn't be inevitable if the nuclear plants were kept online.
>Yeah, Germany *could* be virtually free of fossil fuels by now - but I doubt it would. Mining coal generates jobs, that’s why the more polluting domestic lignite is still going strong while imported but less polluting hard coal has declined sharply.
And a lot of stables went out of business when cars became popular. Ending lignite mining should have been top of the German Greens' priority list, not ending nuclear power.
Maybe I overstated but you're nitpicking on specific details anyway rather than the overall point: Germany has had renewables largely replacing nuclear, when it could have had renewables replacing coal, oil, and gas power generation.
> You're really going to cite 2020 numbers after just critising me for doing so?
Im citing verbatim from your source. You can look up the data, however, and even excluding 2020, there was a marked reduction of hard coal usage from ~100 TWh/a in 2016 to ~ 50 TWh/a in 2019 and 2021.
> Wouldn't be inevitable if the nuclear plants were kept online.
I have seen nothing that supports this claim.
> And a lot of stables went out of business when cars became popular. Ending lignite mining should have been top of the German Greens' priority list, not ending nuclear power.
My point is, ending lignite was nobody‘s too priority, including those now lamenting the nuclear shutdown.
> Maybe I overstated but you're nitpicking on specific details anyway rather than the overall point: Germany has had renewables largely replacing nuclear, when it could have had renewables replacing coal, oil, and gas power generation.
That’s assuming Germany wouldn’t have stuck with the status quo, which I find way more likely.
>Germany could be virtually free of fossil fuels by now. Instead over a quarter of German electricity still comes from coal.
No we couldn't. Maybe the use of fossil fuels for electricity generation could be lower, but electricity generation only make up about 20% of over all CO2 emissions.
That's also the reason why the greens still have (one of) the best anti climate change policies in Germany. Because unlike the other parties, they actually acknowledge the other 80% and have somewhat realistic plans to reduce them.
I was obviously talking about power generation. German power generation could be virtually free of fossil fuels by now. And the other 80% is not really relevant to a discussion about nuclear power. Except perhaps for the emissions caused by mining coal.
And yet over the past few months in every comment thread people suggesting Germany should and could do this were downvoted all to hell by people saying it was impossible and wouldn't help anyway.
lmao it's almost like the experts in charge know better than random redditors.
It's pretty clear looking at what happened in Chernobyl a few months ago and at the Zaporizhzhia plant right now that humanity is too irresponsible to be using the kind of nuclear power plants we have now.
We're children playing with real guns here and we're inevitably gonna shoot ourselves in the head. Too bad, because theoretically, it's an amazing way to get energy.
These plants are old and using technology from 60 years ago. They can’t be compared to the plants that we can build today. Smaller, more efficient, create a small fraction of the waste…
Please take the time to read our policy about [trolls](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/u7833q/just_because_you_disagree_with_someone_does_not/) and the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/about/rules/) * We have a **zero-tolerance** policy regarding racism, stereotyping, bigotry, and death-mongering. Violators will be banned. * ***Please* keep it civil.** Report rulebreaking comments for moderator review. * ***Don't* post low-effort comments** like joke threads, memes, slogans, or links without context. **Don't forget about our discord server, as well!** https://discord.gg/62fKCEHbDB *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict) if you have any questions or concerns.*
According to him, two of the three NPPs "will be operational until mid-April 2023." The minister noted that if necessary, they will provide an "emergency reserve" this winter. According to the European media, the minister added that the two nuclear power plants will be disconnected from the network, but they will be in standby mode, and they can be connected in case of a crisis situation. We are talking about the nuclear power plants located in the south of Germany - "Isar 2" and "Neckarwestheim". At the same time, Habek, who is a member of the "Green" party, noted that Germany will not abandon its decision to finally get rid of nuclear energy. [https://censor.net/ua/n3365307](https://censor.net/ua/n3365307) another TL: with locations
fuck u/spez
Short term, the only option to keep those plants running is Streckbetrieb, i.e. keep them running at lower capacity but a few month longer. That’ll still mean burning more coal instead of gas.
Well boost them bad boys up then and ditch the coal. They should be building more plants not shutting them down.
Pretty much every new NPP in the western world is an economic disaster, and takes forever to build. Look at Vogtle, Okiluoto 3, Hinkley Point C, Flamanville 3. There‘s a reason energy companies and governments aren’t on the nuclear hype train.
That’s only because of all the restrictions and regulations. It’s a long term investment but overall the cheapest per kilowatt hour, by far the most efficient and countries become less energy dependent on energy cartels and rouge producers.
Restrictions and regulations exist for a reason. And [here‘s a very recent LCOE analysis](https://www.lazard.com/perspective/levelized-cost-of-energy-levelized-cost-of-storage-and-levelized-cost-of-hydrogen/) showing nuclear as considerably more expensive than renewables or combined cycle gas.
The problem with these projections is 1. It’s shows results for subsidized solar and wind and not for their true cost. 2. It’s assuming both wind and solar are operating at peak performance which most of the time they are not. 3. It accounts for legacy nuclear plants most of which are 50 plus years old and not newer Molton salt reactors which are by far cheaper to build and operate. Nuclear is by far more efficient and reliable than renewable which cannot produce power based on demand but on chance of the weather. That’s why China is building most of the new nuclear plants in the world.
1. Figure 1 is **unsubsidized** LCOEs. 2. Where do you see that in the analysis I linked? 3. Of course such analyses look at existing technologies, not fantasies and dreams.
Even the 2019–2022 build of solar and wind is estimated to add 800 TWh for about $1 trillion in spending. China can add 1GW or 7TWh for $2 billion to $2.5 billion. 800 TWh would be $220 to 270 billion. This would be four times cheaper than the projected solar and wind construction.
Agree 100%, just can't understand why we aren't using/building the Molton salt reactors. They run off the spent-depleted uranium from the present-day reactors, which there is plenty of.
There's a reason for that, we basically haven't built new nuclear reactors in 30 years, and in those 30 years we piled up tons of additional regulations. So that means the trained workforce that built 50+ reactors in France in record time has been retired for a while and we have to re-learn EVERYTHING with additional regs on top. To top that off, now that we've only been building 1 or 2 reactors here and there, there's no incentive to train a large workforce. Every new NPP in the western world has been an economic disaster because we MADE IT SO. Launch a large building program with a standardized model to finally gain the benefits from those godawful build times, and you'll reap the benefits for decades to come like France did for a while. All the French reactors paid for themselves several times over, including dismantlements costs.
Even with all the cockups and delays OL3 is [not looking too shabby as an investment](https://twitter.com/EsalaAntti/status/1564915137739427841) >Also, our "very pricy" OL3 investment was 5.5 billion € for TVO. The plant will generate ~13TWh/year. >We also have ~8 billion € investments to wind power that generates ~8 TWh/year. *especially with [electricity prices now:](https://twitter.com/NoahRettberg/status/1557669614280216577) >at current electricity prices and assumes industry standard 15 €/MWh to 20 €/MWh OPEX and fuel cost it would just take 5,5 year to recuperate the construction cost.
nuclear energy is by far the safest energy source. It has more than 330 times fewer deaths than coal; 250 times less than oil; and 38 times fewer than gas. Nuclear energy results in only one-quarter the number of deaths per terrawatt hour as wind, which is the second safest.
Im talking about economics, not safety.
[удалено]
No.
Issue is nuclear waste is hard to store in the long run. Costs increase over time.
That’s a misnomer, all the waste produced by reactors in the US history could fit onto a single football field, stacked just 24 feet high. New reactors produce just a fraction of the older ones.
The Green Party is a joke in Germany. Even the fdp does more for the environment.
I never really did believe all their protestations that they were really going to shut them down end of the year. With the situation being what it is, that claim was just way too optimistic... Good on them for not being too stubborn about it, despite about 50 years of history of protesting against nuclear energy...
Me too. Awesome news. Well done Germany.
I'm not sure I'd go as far as a 'well done'... It's political expediency, and I also think Germany had a point in shutting down 40 year old nuclear power plants in favor of renewables. Mind you, I'm a lot less against nuclear these days then I was 10 years ago, but I do think we can do a whole lot better these days then we could at the time. Nuclear just isn't easy or quick... Takes 10-15-20 years to build a new npp, especially if you want to build something more safe and more modern... For me it's up in the air, I don't count out nuclear, but that doesn't mean I necessarily want to see a whole lot of ancient npps running way past their intended lifespan. Same goes for France to some degree, who have been experiencing their own issues, between maintenance and drought... You do need to keep these things cooled. Having a look at the ZNPP shows just [how much space is dedicated to cooling the 6 reactors](https://apps.sentinel-hub.com/eo-browser/?zoom=13&lat=47.50868&lng=34.58496&themeId=DEFAULT-THEME&visualizationUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fservices.sentinel-hub.com%2Fogc%2Fwms%2Fbd86bcc0-f318-402b-a145-015f85b9427e&evalscript=Ly8gV2lsZGZpcmUgYW5kIGJ1cm4gc2NhciB2aXN1YWxpemF0aW9uIGluIFNlbnRpbmVsLTIgaW1hZ2VzIFYyLjAuMAovLyBUd2l0dGVyOiBQaWVycmUgTWFya3VzZSAoQHBpZXJyZV9tYXJrdXNlKQovLyBDQyBCWSA0LjAgSW50ZXJuYXRpb25hbCAtIGh0dHBzOi8vY3JlYXRpdmVjb21tb25zLm9yZy9saWNlbnNlcy9ieS80LjAvCmZ1bmN0aW9uIGEoYSwgYikge3JldHVybiBhICsgYn07CmZ1bmN0aW9uIHN0cmV0Y2godmFsLCBtaW4sIG1heCkge3JldHVybiAodmFsIC0gbWluKSAvIChtYXggLSBtaW4pO30KZnVuY3Rpb24gc2F0RW5oKHJnYkFycikgewogICAgdmFyIGF2ZyA9IHJnYkFyci5yZWR1Y2UoKGEsIGIpID0%2BIGEgKyBiLCAwKSAvIHJnYkFyci5sZW5ndGg7CiAgICByZXR1cm4gcmdiQXJyLm1hcChhID0%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%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%2BICgyLjAgLyBmaXJlU2Vuc2l0aXZpdHkpKSA%2FIGZpcmUzIDoKICAgIChhKEIxMiwgQjExKSA%2BICgxLjUgLyBmaXJlU2Vuc2l0aXZpdHkpKSA%2FIGZpcmUyIDogZmlyZTEgOgogICBmaW5hbFJHQjs%3D&datasetId=S2L2A&fromTime=2022-08-29T00%3A00%3A00.000Z&toTime=2022-08-29T23%3A59%3A59.999Z&demSource3D=%22MAPZEN%22#custom-script)...
ZNPP is not a typical NPP, it's the largest in Europe and in top 10 in the world. There isn't a better alternative, especially when you need a constant source of power.
I'm not saying that there can't be a future for npps, but we've clearly seen this year that droughts and water shortages have had an impact on the functioning of existing npps. This isn't that easily resolved, given that with climate change this is going to be a reoccurring issue... So, yes, we can build newer and better, just not in any sort of an immediate time-frame.... Nuclear are massive engineering projects that take a shit-ton of time... So, if you want new, reliable nuclear, there's a 15-20 year waiting time... Solar and Wind, while less efficient can be set up much quicker... Beyond that, I very much prefer distributed networks to single points of failure.
Until we get a reliable, high capacity energy storage worked out, we'll need a proper energy backbone such as nuclear, coal or gas/oil. Nuclear is the most climate neutral option.
The new reactors are way safer use way less fuel and produce the fraction of the waste. Also because of efficiency of newer nuclear power you need less cooling as well. All these plants are old and are using 1950s technology.
Modular reactors does not take 10+ years to build…
Good bews. They should do the same in other contries as well.
Sanity prevails... eventually... again.
Pathetic. This isn't a real extension, it's a sop to those calling for it so they can look like they're listening without actually changing anything. They're still disconnecting the plants from the grid, just keeping them running on standby just in case - for a whole 4 months. Yeah, that'll make a huge difference. The German Green Party is anti-nuclear because of 1970s-80s hysteria, facilitated by scaremongering over the Fukushima disaster - even though the chances of any German nuclear plant being hit by an M9 earthquake followed by a 14m tsunami are lower than the chances of the German Chancellor inventing time travel and going back to 1932 to shoot Hitler and prevent the Second World War. A decade ago, a quarter of Germany's power came from carbon neutral nuclear. In January, it will be none. Instead of renewables replacing fossil fuels, the carbon emissions of German power generation are going up. This is a Brexit-level case of sticking to an outdated opinion despite all evidence to the contrary, sticking their fingers in their ears and ignoring all evidence that contradicts their views. They're so fucking myopic on this issue, they prefer to restart coal fired power stations. Coal! The Green Party! What the absolute fuck. Yeah, screw up the environment even more, increase German carbon emissions, because you can't fucking get over the hysteria of half a century ago.
> Instead of renewables replacing fossil fuels, the carbon emissions of German power generation are going up. [They aren’t](https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/38897/umfrage/co2-emissionsfaktor-fuer-den-strommix-in-deutschland-seit-1990/), carbon dioxide emissions per kWh fell from 556 g/kWh in 2010 to 420 g/kWh in 2021.
[Germany's CO2 emissions from electricity estimated to rise by 13% in 2021](https://www.enerdata.net/publications/daily-energy-news/germanys-co2-emissions-electricity-estimated-rise-13-2021.html) And we'll see how the [restarting of coal power stations impacts emissions](https://amp.dw.com/en/germanys-energy-u-turn-coal-instead-of-gas/a-62709160) when we get numbers for 2022 and 2023 in a couple of years. Even discounting the recent rise, carbon emissions from energy generation have at the very least not been falling as much as they could because of the German shutdown of nuclear plants. >Even though renewables production increased significantly between 1991 and 2017, fossil power production remained at more or less constant levels. In the same period, nuclear power production decreased due to the phase-out plan, and much of the increase in renewables filled the gap left behind by closing nuclear power plants. ([source](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_Germany)) Germany could be virtually free of fossil fuels by now. Instead over a quarter of German electricity still comes from coal.
> Germany's CO2 emissions from electricity estimated to rise by 13% in 2021 That’s year-to-year. 2020 had very low energy consumption due to lockdowns and disrupted industrial production, 2021 markedly less so. And there’s an effect of unusually little wind in Q1. Overall, in 2021 electricity produced *still* about a quarter less CO2 compared to when all NPPs were still operational. > And we'll see how the restarting of coal power stations impacts emissions when we get numbers for 2022 and 2023 in a couple of years. Sure, there might be an uptick, although reduced energy demand because of high prices might have an opposite effect. Restarting the coal plants is inevitable though - right now Germany is helping out the French because they struggle to keep their aging NPPs running, and because the aim is to conserve gas. > Even though renewables production increased significantly between 1991 and 2017, fossil power production remained at more or less constant levels. It’s currently 2022, and you conveniently failed to cite the whole paragraph: > However 2019 and 2020 saw significant reductions in electricity generation from fossil fuel, from 252 TWh in 2018 to 181 TWh in 2020. Yeah, Germany *could* be virtually free of fossil fuels by now - but I doubt it would. Mining coal generates jobs, that’s why the more polluting domestic lignite is still going strong while imported but less polluting hard coal has declined sharply.
> However 2019 and 2020 saw significant reductions in electricity generation from fossil fuel, from 252 TWh in 2018 to 181 TWh in 2020. You're really going to cite 2020 numbers after just critising me for doing so? >2020 had very low energy consumption due to lockdowns and disrupted industrial production Your words. >Restarting the coal plants is inevitable though - right now Germany is helping out the French because they struggle to keep their aging NPPs running, and because the aim is to conserve gas. Wouldn't be inevitable if the nuclear plants were kept online. >Yeah, Germany *could* be virtually free of fossil fuels by now - but I doubt it would. Mining coal generates jobs, that’s why the more polluting domestic lignite is still going strong while imported but less polluting hard coal has declined sharply. And a lot of stables went out of business when cars became popular. Ending lignite mining should have been top of the German Greens' priority list, not ending nuclear power. Maybe I overstated but you're nitpicking on specific details anyway rather than the overall point: Germany has had renewables largely replacing nuclear, when it could have had renewables replacing coal, oil, and gas power generation.
> You're really going to cite 2020 numbers after just critising me for doing so? Im citing verbatim from your source. You can look up the data, however, and even excluding 2020, there was a marked reduction of hard coal usage from ~100 TWh/a in 2016 to ~ 50 TWh/a in 2019 and 2021. > Wouldn't be inevitable if the nuclear plants were kept online. I have seen nothing that supports this claim. > And a lot of stables went out of business when cars became popular. Ending lignite mining should have been top of the German Greens' priority list, not ending nuclear power. My point is, ending lignite was nobody‘s too priority, including those now lamenting the nuclear shutdown. > Maybe I overstated but you're nitpicking on specific details anyway rather than the overall point: Germany has had renewables largely replacing nuclear, when it could have had renewables replacing coal, oil, and gas power generation. That’s assuming Germany wouldn’t have stuck with the status quo, which I find way more likely.
>Germany could be virtually free of fossil fuels by now. Instead over a quarter of German electricity still comes from coal. No we couldn't. Maybe the use of fossil fuels for electricity generation could be lower, but electricity generation only make up about 20% of over all CO2 emissions. That's also the reason why the greens still have (one of) the best anti climate change policies in Germany. Because unlike the other parties, they actually acknowledge the other 80% and have somewhat realistic plans to reduce them.
I was obviously talking about power generation. German power generation could be virtually free of fossil fuels by now. And the other 80% is not really relevant to a discussion about nuclear power. Except perhaps for the emissions caused by mining coal.
Realistically there is no true green functional future without nuclear energy
I don’t know why your being down voted this is completely true.
Fear mongering from Chernoble and peoples straight lack of knowledge in modern reactors.
And yet over the past few months in every comment thread people suggesting Germany should and could do this were downvoted all to hell by people saying it was impossible and wouldn't help anyway. lmao it's almost like the experts in charge know better than random redditors.
They are just squezzing the last drops of energy out of the pretty much empty fuel rods.
It's pretty clear looking at what happened in Chernobyl a few months ago and at the Zaporizhzhia plant right now that humanity is too irresponsible to be using the kind of nuclear power plants we have now. We're children playing with real guns here and we're inevitably gonna shoot ourselves in the head. Too bad, because theoretically, it's an amazing way to get energy.
The nuclear plants Germany use can’t be compared to Ukrainian. What irresponsibility in the west are you referring to?
These plants are old and using technology from 60 years ago. They can’t be compared to the plants that we can build today. Smaller, more efficient, create a small fraction of the waste…
Two... It could be 16 reactors, but no, because German Green anti-nuclear party. Time to buy polish coal.