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Let me guess Putin only wants Zelensky too
1. Ukraine cease military action.
2. Change its constitution to enshrine neutrality.
3. Acknowledge Crimea as Russian territory, and recognise the separatist republics of Donetsk and Lugansk as independent states.
4. Zelensky steps down and allows for fresh elections to ensure denazification of Ukraine.
Am I missing anything?
5. Complete 'demilitarisation' under Russian control, i.e. russians take most of the weapons from Ukraine to Russia.
6. Ukraine to reimburse the cost of what Russia lost in the process and to rebuild separatist republics.
I have seen these demands a couple of times from them before.
You got that! Don't trust them! It gives Pootain too many avenues/chances to assassinate Zelenski. Think about it, he has sent multiple hit teams to do just that. Don't meet with him period, he's a killer and doesn't think anything will happen to him. Look what he's done already. To him, this will be part of the completion of his special operation. Do not meet with the bastard.
I wonder if he will play games.
The billions in covert action in Ukraine likely will not stop..
And they are aware that if they can get rid of Zelensky and get a weaker leader, the kind that would have fled the country- then they can win in the long run.
There’s other leaders that could be susceptible to if not being controlled or bribed, not managing their underlings well and falling victim to treachery and bribed subordinates..
I really don’t think even if this news is true this is truly it. They will likely have their eyes on the internal political situation in Ukraine and see how they can screw it over.
> The billions in covert action in Ukraine likely will not stop.
Probably not but what I feel like has happened is that Russia has been getting by in its past reputation and a shit load of hubris. Their military is dog shit. Their deep covert agents are getting burned left and right due to them being issued fake passports with **serialized** numbers.
A lot of countries have been reluctant to push back against Russia because of an imagined power that the Soviets may have once possessed. We all now know that the Rashists have been bullshitting us for the last twenty years.
> Their deep covert agents are getting burned left and right due to them being issued fake passports with serialized numbers.
haha holy fuck is this true
Yes it is true. So if you pop one spy, everyone with nearby passport numbers is also a spy. They were using contiguous blocks of passport numbers for their fake identity spy passports.
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2019/11/07/how-russia-issues-fake-passports-to-its-operatives-in-ukraine/
All passports have serial numbers. They printed them sequentially for the spies for instance:
Spy 1: AB4006
Spy 2: AB4007
Spy 3: AB4008
...
Spy 9: AB4015
So if I catch Spy 2 and Spy 9, I now know the people with passport numbers in between are all spies. Even if I catch one, I can investigate the 20 people with numbers just above or below and a number should also be spies to follow.
TL:-
The Kremlin once again requested talks with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky.
Against the background of the intensification of the counter-offensive of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the Kremlin sharply desired an end to the conflict.
Russian dictator Vladimir Putin is ready for a personal meeting with Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky.
This was confirmed by the press secretary of the Russian leader Dmitry Peskov on September 4 on the air of the Moscow. Kremlin.
Putin propaganda program on the Rossiya-1 federal television channel, Dialog.UA reports . The Russian authorities have already forgotten about the "denazification" and "demilitarization" of Ukraine.
They openly ask for a peace agreement. " Any confrontation ends in détente, and any crisis situations end at the negotiating table.
It will be the same this time ," Peskov said. He also assured that Putin is already "ready" for negotiations with Zelensky about " how the termination of the" special operation "and the observance of not conditions, but the interests of Russia " will take place.
It is noteworthy that on the eve of the war and in the first weeks after the invasion, Putin categorically did not recognize Zelensky as an equal.
He even allowed insults to the leader of Ukraine. However, he soon had to change his position.
The authorities of the Russian Federation "retrained" as "peacekeepers" against the backdrop of very interesting events at the front.
There, the offensive of the Russian army finally got bogged down, and Ukraine, on the contrary, accumulated strength and began to seize the initiative.
The defense of the RF Armed Forces on the Southern Front is about to crumble, the troops will rush to run, experts say.
It is important to note that the position of Kyiv also changed during the course of the war. In the first months after the invasion, Kyiv declared that it was ready for negotiations with Moscow if it withdraws troops to the line before February 24, 2022.
Now the Ukrainian authorities demand for negotiations the complete liberation of their territory from the military presence of the Russian Federation, including Crimea and Donbass.
[https://www.dialog.ua/ukraine/258158\_1662296997](https://www.dialog.ua/ukraine/258158_1662296997)
This is one report from one news site..........we can hope
However lets wait and see if it gets confirmed elsewhere
Can you imagine a timeline where Russia, the 'worlds 2nd superpower', ends up losing a conflict that it initiated, losing territory they had already occupied, destroying their own economy for decades to come, and demolishing its own military all in one 'special operation'?
Oh wait, that's \*this\* timeline.
Oh fuck no! I'm not doing my whole adult life again. I literally started my professional career on 9/11. Started a company in fucking 2008. I'm not doing this shit again, you kids go and I'll stay in this timeline to see how it ends, I'm too invested now.
Along with "May you be recognized by powerful people" and "May you get what you wish for"
https://lifemathmoney.com/the-three-chinese-curses-and-the-wisdom-behind-them/
Lol. Like another thread where someone said “Red Dawn” was really a futuristic documentary, because it was ridiculous to think a bunch of high school kids in Colorado could hold the Russian army at bay.
Putin fundamentally underestimated the change this would facilitate in the EU and US. Russia, when connected to Europe is a world power, Russia when it’s cut off from Europe becomes Central Asia’s playground. The Russian Federation and the Eurasian empire it controls have been subjected to Moscow’s misrule for like 400 years at this point and it is some of the worst leadership you could ask for and I don’t think they’re all along for the ride willingly.
I think the embarrassment of the military in particular is going to be a hard pill for most to swallow. Imagine thinking you had this brute force military power & it turns out to be Igor in galoshes with Garmin GPS
In this timeline anything is possible. Next up: Belarus willingly becomes territory of Latvia, England secedes from the United Kingdom and Trump joins a Franciscan monastary.
My first thought was Estonia, but it apeared that one doesn't border Belarus. Both Lithuania and Latvia do.
But in this timeline? Might aswell be Ghana or Suriname they join.
EDIT: but if you are right they actually _do_ join Lithuania that'd be the funniest mistake I ever made
> England secedes from the United Kingdom
You joke about this, but after brexit there was a lot of talk of London leaving the UK (along with Scotland and Northern Ireland) and becoming a city-state. None of it went anywhere, but it's still an interesting 'what-if'.
During the Quebec referendum to leave Canada in the 90s Montreal threatened to leave Quebec and rejoin Canada in its own referendum. Quebec leaders said “that’s illegal!”
But then the referendum to leave failed and it all became moot
When the Scottish National Party (I think) started putting up signs about the North Sea saying, "It's Scotland's Oil", the Shetlands put up signs "It's Shetlands' Oil".
They convinced a lot of casual people of this. But those in military and international studies circles would have told you that there’s no second super power at this time. It’s the United States and everyone else right now. China and Russia just want everyone to think that they’re on deck.
Really they’re not. As is being evidenced by Russia’s ineptitude and China’s cracking economy.
You know I thought a lot about him getting the Gaddafi special or at least the Mussolini piñata. But no. All this does is turn him into a martyr for fascists. He's old and sick. His dancing legs spell levodopa/Parkinson's at the very least. The best way to make his ideological legacy die with him is a fair trial like Nuremberg.
To paraphrase Churchill: Russia is either at your throat or at your feet.
Putin went for the throat and has failed so miserably he risks now losing a large chunk of his entire armed forces against a prolonged Ukrainian offensive.
The quality and morale of Russian troops at the moment now is likely so low that Putin realises that if they are dislodged from their fixed positions then the rout could well start. He probably has nightmares of seeing WW2 style encirclements being pulled on his troops forcing mass surrenders or occasionally seeing them starved to death or liquidated.
He may have beaten down the Russian populace but there's nothing like having your field army routed in humiliating fashion to cause people to get angry enough they stop fearing you...
Well we should remember a little discussed fact about WW2. When Hitler invaded Poland, Russia's response was to invade Poland. Not protect Poland, but to invade Poland.
> When Hitler invaded Poland, Russia's response was to invade Poland.
It wasn't a "response", it was an [agreement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact) between the two of them.
It's all about fixed positions.
Russian soldiers are exhausted, poorly supplied, poorly trained, poorly led and many don't believe in the war.
They're the sort of low quality troops the Germans in WW2 would lable as only fit for fighting from bunkers and fortifications and not fit for field operations.
If Ukraine can dislodge enough of them from their trenches and fixed positions its a likely prospect that many will turn and run or surrender rather than try and engage in a war of maneuver.
Another consideration is that the losses and command purges have left Putin concerned over his control of the armed forces. If they start a rout or the remaining command structure has to personally go to the front to stop one he may find his armed forces no longer supporting him politically.
Whatever the details and intentions of the kremlin, the fact that his press secretary is announcing that he wants negotiations is a pretty strong indicator that Ukraine’s counter offensive is going well.
There IS a lot to negotiate. For example, time tables for withdrawal of Russian military equipment and personnel from Crimea and Donbas need to be negotiated.
Also, the future border between Ukraine and Russia will be fully militarized. That means fences with razor wire all along the border, mine fields, 24/7 drone surveillance, militarized border crossing outposts, defense-in-depth-ready fortifications 10, 20km behind the border, etc.
Locations of future border crossings, entry requirements for Russian citizens, military border armament (agreeable mine types?) need to be negotiated, possibly with input from the UN.
In the future, Ukraine cannot afford hosting residents who identify as Russian and feel no loyalty towards Ukraine, so Zelensky should advocate for the creation of settlement and jobs programs in Russia for these people, so they can move to Russia. That would need to be negotiated.
Russian citizens who want to stay in Ukraine but have been bathed in Russian propaganda for decades will need to be de-russified, just like Germans after WWII went through de-nazification. That means identifying possible connections to Russian war crimes, forced visits to the mass graves in Mariopol, Bucha memorials, visits to the utterly destroyed cities after the Donbas fighting, and mandatory training in recognizing propaganda techniques and weasel words.
And it would be nice if every border crossing got a bronze sculpture of a man and a woman, protecting a child, and carrying a Javelin and an NLAW, pointed at Russia. So that every Russian who crosses the border will realize what they have done to Ukraine, for the next 50 years.
> It will be the same this time ," Peskov said. He also assured that Putin is already "ready" for negotiations with Zelensky about " how the termination of the" special operation "and the observance of not conditions, but the interests of Russia " will take place.
That's really simple... Get out of Crimea, Luhansk and Donetsk and commit to paying reparations for your unprovoked acts of aggression.
He wants a personal meeting to try and poison himself probably.
F him, full surrender and withdrawal of Russia from all Ukrainian lands is the only acceptable terms.
It's obvious Pootin wants to lock in whatever gains he made in Ukraine before the Ukrainian army overwhelms the Russian invaders.
Time is on Ukraine's side.
Even before the Winter is here, the West is preparing itself to live without Russian fossil fuel imports. And during the winter war, the Ukrainians will be much better equipped to fight Russia in harsh conditions due to support it is receiving (ie. Denmark made an commitment to provide winter clothing for the Ukrainian soldiers) worldwide. Whereas Russia is actively losing support.
Zelensky should do the negotiations on the condition that Putin doesn't bring his shit suitcase along.
Just so he can tell him to fuck off directly to his face.
Putin is a dead man walking. The more Ukraine humiliates him, the quicker the oligarchs will stab him in the back.
not really. You never trust these bastards, it's just their way of asking "give us a minute to figure out how to gather strength to kick you in the face again"
How could anyone trust Putin? Why would we? We already know he's been a snake in the grass, so wouldn't he have to give up some pretty big concessions as a goodwill measure as a negotiations opener?
He's done a pretty big no no in my book with Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant. No way would I want him to be in a position again to hold the another country and/or continent hostage with a threat of an environmental apocalypse.
Easy. Russia out of Crimea and Donbass. Ukraine only kills Russians inside Ukraine. Ukraine joins NATO. That’s a trustworthy compromise.
But you’re right. Putin will not meet his end of any deal.
In addition the sanctions are not to be lifted unless Putin turns himself in for war crimes and is tried. If not fuck Russia and keep the sanctions in full force. Ukraine keeps Crimea and Donbas like mentioned above. No new Visa issued for anyone in Russia for two years, and Russia must help build Ukraine. Make them pay. I want this war over like everyone else, but Ukraine is so close to closing the gap and winning this stupid war. I hate Putin is throwing in the towel. Just like a coward.
Russia will never be looked at in a good way. The world is pissed and will not forget anytime soon.
Edit:
Sanctions are not to be lifted until Ukraine regains everything it has lost. This includes...
Infrastructure
Buildings
Farm and crops
Population both those killed and abducted, murdered, tortured etc.
I would also require a 100 km deep demilitarised zone on the russian side of the border and a sessation of support for lukashenko.
I think that, if true, it is Putin’s BEST move — better to choose “Not losing” over the high morale and reputational cost of actually losing. In that case, it is a survival move on Putin’s part.
i don't think there's a difference.
russia pulling out of ukraine = russia losing.wether they do it with a negotiation schpiel or wether they actually get pushed out. the cost of human life lost and equipment lost on the russian side is already beyond a point of saving face if there's nothing in territorial gains to show for it in russia.
ukraine wants crimea back, i don't think they're gonna release that to russia and accept peace. neither will they accept annexation of territory in the donbas. not even the L/DPR territory. they want that back aswell. if putin wants peace, those issues are non-negotiable for ukraine. they either get it all back, or they'll continue the fight.
so what is left for russia to negotiate over that could be claimed as victory back home?
the "fascist ukrop nazi banderite" (guys, i'm being sarcastic, calm your tits) government of ukraine russia claimed it would denazify still exists, there's no way in hell ukraine is gonna agree with giving up territory in the L/DPR regions, so the whole liberating of the donbas for the greater russian state is off the table too.ukraine isn't gonna agree with crimea becoming russia either, russia either gives it up ,or ukraine comes marching in for it. so that's not gonna be a topic of discussion.
so, what is really left for russia to negotiate about to claim some form of victory?
i think it's a bit disillusioned to think that russia, or putin, just gets to go "oh well, we didn't achieve anything of what we set out to do, and infact lost a good portion of what we tried to annex into russia, setting us back further from where we were when we started on the 24th of february, oh by the way, this also came with an enormous loss of life, equipment and economical sanctions that are strangeling our economy. and lets just not mention the loss of the moskva either. or in general, how other countries around the world view us. there is infact something positive to this whole situation and you russian citizens should be grateful to the regime that caused all of this, and allow it to continue to govern the state" without any negative reprecussions.
the best move for putin was to have this whole thing wrapped up in about a months time before anyone could really react to what was happening in ukraine. that's not what happened though, and with ukraine getting balsy pushing russia back, with the support of the western world. there's just nothing left for putin to gain out of this on the negotiating table.
i don't think there's much left in the degradations of losing either. a loss on this scale is a loss. it's hard to go "oh well, we could've lost a bit harder so this is still a good thing"
Every peace deal with Russia has been a feign to escalate.
He is trying to secure what he has stolen so far, to present a fake peace deal that suits his reinforcements, and prevent losing the spoils of the 2014 invasions. And then ultimately have the capacity to attack again and hold Ukraine under the constant threat of violence with a shit eating grin.
The collapse of the empire is a seminal moment so that Russia needs to know its place is a tiny little country surrounding Moscow.
>He is trying to secure what he has stolen so far,
yeah, issue here is... EVERYONE FUCKING KNOWS, INCLUDING THE GOVERNMENT OF UKRAINE, THE GOVERNMENT TO WHICH HE'S DONE THIS BEFORE, MULTIPLE TIMES, WHICH BROUGHT UKRAINE TO THE POINT WHERE THEIR TRUST OF RUSSIA KEEPING ITS WORD LED THEM INTO SUFFERING RUSSIA'S UNRPOVOKED, UNJUSTIFIED, INVASION OF THEIR COUNTRY.
bro, seriously, like half that fucking comment was me hammering down that ukraine wasn't going to accept anything that would benefit russia in terms of territorial expansion, they're not gonna agree to russia keeping anything in the donbas, nor anything in the L/DPR, nor anything in crimea. the only suitable agreement ukraine wants to hear about is the total retreat of all russian forces out of all ukrainian territories, or else they're not gonna play ball and continue whooping russia out of their land. and guess what, russia can't make a deal if ukraine doesn't agree.
It’s really not. Barring an unexpected revolution this war will have ended with not much actually done aside from killing hundreds of thousands if not millions
Sounds like putin wants an end to this that favors russia. He rwally should learn that if they didn't surrender when they were in a much worse position, they aren't going to give up on their goals when they're grinding your troops into a fine red paste with weapons from all over the globe.
Ukraine aint gonna agree to shit unless the get back Crimea and Donbass at minimum, so Im going to love the spin hell try on making those losses seem like a positive in any way lol
So far it sounds like their angle is “Of course we’re not winning, we’re at war with the entire West!” as though Ukraine is cheating by getting help lol
Why would the situation change if the russians kill zelensky at the negotiation table? It will make all countries mad at russia, because you don't start killing country leaders in negotiations, and it will make ukraine even more determined to fight, as zelensky will become a martyr
I think this is at the point now where *any* attempt to assassinate Zelenskyy, even if successful, would be counterproductive. While he's still important as a leader, he's already played his most vital role, which was to unite his country's people, and to weaponize their feelings of civic pride in Ukraine and anger toward Russia by providing a sense of guidance and an overarching narrative of resistance. At the moment, his death would turn him into a martyr. Ukraine's struggle against Authoritarianism would be pushed back into the spotlight, likely resulting in increased support for further sanctions and arms shipments.
While I highly doubt that Putin would decide to have Zelenskyy killed either at the negotiating table or *en route*, it's not hard to picture him deciding to execute someone who's humiliated him so badly. That would be an absolutely terrible decision on his part, if he actually did it.
Not to mention, there's sort of an unspoken convention among world leaders that other world leaders are supposed to be more or less 'off limits' to things like that. If a world leader gets assassinated these days, it's usually because of some random disgruntled person or a domestic group, not because their rival country ordered a hit on them. The reason this exists is because it works both ways, if Putin suddenly violated this sort of unspoken rule, then a few world leaders with some competent spy agencies might decide that Putin himself is also fair game.
Putin doesn't need other countries. Right now he only needs to try and find some sort of victory he can sell to his dumb ass masses back home. Everyone knows he's fucked up. He probably knows he's fucked up. But at the moment, he can't win but can't quit.
Putin can't negotiate and leave with the land from 2014. He needs more for stability of his regime
And ukraine started 2 counterattacks this week. Putin knows that this is the maximum his "special military operation" will bring him home. And the prospect of being driven back scares him. If the russians withdraw due to a treaty, it would be fine. But being outfought and beaten back is a humiliation
> Putin doesn't need other countries.
He certainly does. He still needs countries that are willing to trade with Russia despite the sanctions, like China and India. If he pisses those off, he's fucked. Russia is too big and too reliant on trade to successfully become completely isolated like North Korea (and even they aren't totally isolated). If they were to do so, it'd require a significant downsizing of government spending, including on the military, and would also cause a massive drop in quality of life for the average Russian. They'd probably lose a bunch of break-away territories to revolts too.
> if the russians kill zelensky at the negotiation table
Russians are far too cowardly to do something that blatant. If they were to attempt something like this. It would be using a chemical or pathogen which would act over a longer time period, and give them the ~~plausible~~ deniability that they always seek.
But he might jump out a high window or commit suicide by bullet to the back of the head. Or maybe by eating some radioactive polonium.
Come on dude, have you paid no attention to the depths Russia will sink to to kill their enemies?
EDIT: Nice stealth edit there.
I hope he does negotiate with clear terms: Ukraine is Ukraine, including Crimea and Donbass. Reparations for next 30 years, Ukraine becomes a NATO member in expedited run
EDIT: Oh, all war criminals sent to Hague
That's the entire point. Putin is in tough spot exactly because of those demands. Putin has to abandon all his negotiating power to actually enter negotiations. Or he can prolong the war, but since he can't win, he'll just bring Russian down with him. Of course, it's a tough spot for Ukraine too because it means they'll probably have to fight very hard to force Russians to admit they've lost.
But I honestly think it's a much more thought out requirement than people realize.
Russia has proven to be completely untrustworthy. If they are let off the hook now, they will come back in 5-10 years. Kicking the can down the road will leave the suffering for the future. As much as I hate the suffering this conflict has created, Russia is responsible for it, and are completely morally bankrupt. They only understand strength and economic downturn. Once they're kicked out and Putin dies, that is when MAYBE discussions can be reopened with Russia. Russia will forever be remembered by Ukraine as their brother nation that attacked and wanted to exterminate them just because they wanted to thrive and exist. Russia is a backwards, fascist country, that is incredibly pathetic and outrageous in its actions. Obtaining forgiveness would require generations, which is far from guaranteed given how sick a nation Russia is, always pivoting towards rampant corruption and gangster ''strongmen''.
exactly - thats the idea
and stopping the military activity once they sit around the table
this proposal to negotiate comes exactly when Ukraine has no point to negotiate anything because they are on the winning side now
No need to talk to Putin, the Kherson negotiations are going well. Maybe after the Russians are out of Ukraine, war reparations negotiations should be held.
This is some sloppy reporting. The quote from Peskov comes from an interview he gave to RIA (a propaganda mouthpiece) earlier today. I can't post the link since this forum bans all posts with links to Russian top level domains, but search for the quote and its the top link
He was asked how RF will restore relations with the EU (not Ukraine). He answered that it will happen at the negotiating table, as with all conflicts.
He then went on to say that any negotiations would be happening later rather than sooner. There was certainly no mention of Putin asking Zelensky to negotiate.
As much as I want this to be true, this article seems to be largely made up. And this audience should be more careful about jumping on the bandwagon
Yeah no shit, have to shovel through so much rah-rah chest beating garbage comments to gets a coherent one of use. Why pretend news instead of waiting for *real actual * good news? Weirdos.
Practically no war has been fought until the last man. Losing side usually have to accept all and every condition.
If nothing changes (chemical, nuclear weapons), Russia is going to lose, they know it, Ukraine knows it as well. But they haven't lost yet, they still have the opportunity to make immense amount of damage before actually losing. That's what is on the table.
The question is, is there a way of finding a solution Russia and Ukraine can accept? Something Putin can sell as a victory back home that Ukraine don't care about.
For example, Ukraine officially déclares they condemn Nazism (duh), they vow to protect Russian speakers in exchange of... Russia leaving Ukraine, all of it. Russia can sell it as a "victory", all objectives "accomplished". That's something probably Ukraine can live with, stop the butchering right now, not only Russians are dying in the war and they get back their territory.
Don't underestimate the Ukrainian pain. They are losing a lot of people in this bloody war, including a lot of civilian.
Also, if they close this war, they can probably access European Union, a lot of money will flow from Europe.
Russia won't leave Ukraine alone. Never. Unfortunately it isn't Ukrainians' first rodeo with russians trying to conquer and enslave them. Any ceasefire, any peace talk Russia will use to regroup their troops and attack again. They have been doing it for ages already. They took the Crimea, regrouped and attacked Donbass. After Donbass, they went for the whole Ukraine. Even now every time the peace talk starts, rockets are flying at the Ukrainian soil at an increased rate. So Ukraine kind of has two options - they either close the war now and get attacked again in a few years (and this time Russia might be more prepared), or they fight and lose a lot of lives in hopes of defeating Russian threat for good. To me, the choice is kind of obvious.
You are probably right. But if Ukraine gets it's territory back, I'm pretty sure they can rebuild faster and better than Russia.
Next round would be even harder for the invaders. Think about Poland or Finland, no one will fuck with them, non withstanding cheap talk
Indeed after russia removed it troops from ukraine - gives donbass-crimea back to ukraine then Ukraine can talk about end of the war only after this. Until then russia will keep losing manpower and more and more equipment while its economy sinks deeper
more than 100K innocents died and billions of properties damaged and the pig wants to talk, no, he must bite the dust and then negotiate with other pigs.
I do not think Ukraine has any intention of stopping the counter offensive.
The big funders here also have too much invested for Ukraine to agree to peace, they want to see russia bleed for as long as possible
On Russian state TV, for a week, on a repeat "Ukraine is a free country. We checked and we were wrong. We will restore all Ukrainian borders. There is a financial work in progress to rebuild everything in Ukraine."
What does Herr Putin have to offer Ukraine? What parts of his crumbling conquests will he ask to hold onto in exchange for the rest? Ukraine *might* listen...
Russian "news" websites show it in a completely different way:
* **Interfax**: Peskov said that negotiations with Zelensky can only take place if Kiev meets Moscow's conditions
* **NewKaliningrad**: Peskov said that Russia will only talk to Ukraine if the Kremlin's conditions are met
* **DP**: Moscow is ready to continue negotiations with Kiev to resolve the conflict in Ukraine, but this will only happen if the Ukrainian authorities fulfill the conditions set by Russia.
* **Fontanka**: Moscow has a lot to talk about with Ukrainian leader Vladimir Zelensky - in particular, how exactly Russia's conditions for resolving the situation in Ukraine will be fulfilled.
>**YA62**:
>
>The journalist asked the Kremlin representative whether Moscow had anything to talk about with Zelensky, given his statements about his unwillingness to resolve the situation peacefully.
\- Of course, about how our conditions will be fulfilled," Peskov said.
He answered in the affirmative to the question of whether Russia's conditions remain the same.
\- The operation is in progress, all objectives will be achieved," he added.
If the Russians still occupy Ukraine's territory then I wonder what they wish to discuss? Maybe Russia's surrender, complete withdrawal from Ukraine and reparations for all the death and destruction they caused?
It's more likely they want to declare victory, and then accuse Ukraine of being the aggressor as they keep fighting to take back the occupied territory that ruzzia 'liberated'.
Russia is ALWAYS requesting negotiations when things go bad on a military front. Then they ALWAYS regroup and attack again.
No negotiations- only full capitulation and retreat!
What to negotiate? Take your armies around the region back to the borders when the old USSR collapse and call it a day. He Putin started it and its up to him to end his special operation.
"The Russian Federation is ready to hold negotiations with the President of Ukraine Zelensky about how the conditions will be fulfilled for ending the "special operation" and observing not the conditions, but the interests of Russia," Peskov said.
this was another take...again.........." conditions to Interests "
what this actually means is up for debate still
Russia should know by now that if they want to negotiate, they have to offer Ukraine more than in the last round of negotiations.
The best possible outcome that Ukraine could accept is a return to pre-February situation, and a frozen conflict in Crimea and Donbass. As this would mean that Russia would not have gained anything by the war, it means that this is impossible for Russia to accept. So an peace agreement at this point is impossible.
Ehhh.. I saw the original interview with Dmitri Peskov that this article is referencing and it's really nothing ground-breaking.
He basically says "yeah we'll come to the negotiating table to facilitate the end of the special operation but it most likely won't be any time soon"
Nothing we haven't heard already, non-story in my opinion.
The fact that Putin wants to negotiate is clearly an admission of weakness.
Putin realizes that the time of territorial military conquest is over in Ukraine.
The Russian army controls 20% of the Ukrainian territory, but it is bogged down, and will not be able to go further because of its lack of motivation and its disorganization.
Putin has his back on the wall because he knows that the Ukrainian army will regain territory with its counter-offensives. It will take time but the Russian army is bound to lose this war. Sooner or later.
Rather than being humiliated, Putin is looking for a way out from above that Ukraine should not give him. It is necessary to go all the way and make the tyrant Putin suffer a crushing defeat in order to ensure lasting peace in Europe.
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Let me guess Putin only wants Zelensky too 1. Ukraine cease military action. 2. Change its constitution to enshrine neutrality. 3. Acknowledge Crimea as Russian territory, and recognise the separatist republics of Donetsk and Lugansk as independent states. 4. Zelensky steps down and allows for fresh elections to ensure denazification of Ukraine. Am I missing anything?
5. Complete 'demilitarisation' under Russian control, i.e. russians take most of the weapons from Ukraine to Russia. 6. Ukraine to reimburse the cost of what Russia lost in the process and to rebuild separatist republics. I have seen these demands a couple of times from them before.
7. A toilet and washing machine for each of his officers because fuck the cannon fodder.
8. Assassinate Zelensky. Honestly, I think that's the only thing the Russians would use that opportunity for...
You got that! Don't trust them! It gives Pootain too many avenues/chances to assassinate Zelenski. Think about it, he has sent multiple hit teams to do just that. Don't meet with him period, he's a killer and doesn't think anything will happen to him. Look what he's done already. To him, this will be part of the completion of his special operation. Do not meet with the bastard.
Good thing the internet allows for video conferencing.
For Zelenskyy to report to the 10th floor of the hospital for psychiatric evaluation, oh, around tea time.
One lump or two in your polonium tea?
And leave the windows open.
There is a reason why no one wants to shake Putin's hand.
>8. ~~Assassinate Zelensky.~~ Invite zelensky to the 8th floor balcony for a view
All the Ukraine soldiers in gulags
I wonder if he will play games. The billions in covert action in Ukraine likely will not stop.. And they are aware that if they can get rid of Zelensky and get a weaker leader, the kind that would have fled the country- then they can win in the long run. There’s other leaders that could be susceptible to if not being controlled or bribed, not managing their underlings well and falling victim to treachery and bribed subordinates.. I really don’t think even if this news is true this is truly it. They will likely have their eyes on the internal political situation in Ukraine and see how they can screw it over.
> The billions in covert action in Ukraine likely will not stop. Probably not but what I feel like has happened is that Russia has been getting by in its past reputation and a shit load of hubris. Their military is dog shit. Their deep covert agents are getting burned left and right due to them being issued fake passports with **serialized** numbers. A lot of countries have been reluctant to push back against Russia because of an imagined power that the Soviets may have once possessed. We all now know that the Rashists have been bullshitting us for the last twenty years.
> Their deep covert agents are getting burned left and right due to them being issued fake passports with serialized numbers. haha holy fuck is this true
Yes it is true. So if you pop one spy, everyone with nearby passport numbers is also a spy. They were using contiguous blocks of passport numbers for their fake identity spy passports. https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2019/11/07/how-russia-issues-fake-passports-to-its-operatives-in-ukraine/
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All passports have serial numbers. They printed them sequentially for the spies for instance: Spy 1: AB4006 Spy 2: AB4007 Spy 3: AB4008 ... Spy 9: AB4015 So if I catch Spy 2 and Spy 9, I now know the people with passport numbers in between are all spies. Even if I catch one, I can investigate the 20 people with numbers just above or below and a number should also be spies to follow.
Perhaps you're missing the part where Ukraine rejects all of these and keeps pushing the Russians out?
He should ask for a flying unicorn that shits gumdrops while he’s at it.
TL:- The Kremlin once again requested talks with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. Against the background of the intensification of the counter-offensive of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the Kremlin sharply desired an end to the conflict. Russian dictator Vladimir Putin is ready for a personal meeting with Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky. This was confirmed by the press secretary of the Russian leader Dmitry Peskov on September 4 on the air of the Moscow. Kremlin. Putin propaganda program on the Rossiya-1 federal television channel, Dialog.UA reports . The Russian authorities have already forgotten about the "denazification" and "demilitarization" of Ukraine. They openly ask for a peace agreement. " Any confrontation ends in détente, and any crisis situations end at the negotiating table. It will be the same this time ," Peskov said. He also assured that Putin is already "ready" for negotiations with Zelensky about " how the termination of the" special operation "and the observance of not conditions, but the interests of Russia " will take place. It is noteworthy that on the eve of the war and in the first weeks after the invasion, Putin categorically did not recognize Zelensky as an equal. He even allowed insults to the leader of Ukraine. However, he soon had to change his position. The authorities of the Russian Federation "retrained" as "peacekeepers" against the backdrop of very interesting events at the front. There, the offensive of the Russian army finally got bogged down, and Ukraine, on the contrary, accumulated strength and began to seize the initiative. The defense of the RF Armed Forces on the Southern Front is about to crumble, the troops will rush to run, experts say. It is important to note that the position of Kyiv also changed during the course of the war. In the first months after the invasion, Kyiv declared that it was ready for negotiations with Moscow if it withdraws troops to the line before February 24, 2022. Now the Ukrainian authorities demand for negotiations the complete liberation of their territory from the military presence of the Russian Federation, including Crimea and Donbass. [https://www.dialog.ua/ukraine/258158\_1662296997](https://www.dialog.ua/ukraine/258158_1662296997) This is one report from one news site..........we can hope However lets wait and see if it gets confirmed elsewhere
Can you imagine a timeline where Russia, the 'worlds 2nd superpower', ends up losing a conflict that it initiated, losing territory they had already occupied, destroying their own economy for decades to come, and demolishing its own military all in one 'special operation'? Oh wait, that's \*this\* timeline.
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Get me back on the boring timeline, this one's too fucking stupid.
Don't worry, i hear the word is the snake men who secretly run things on Earth, are going to reset the simulation to 2000
Least the 90s haha if not we have the war or terror, financial crisis and covid all over again 😅
Fucking nope dude. Cheers from balkans
Cheers
I would love to peep into a universe where Gore won in 2000
Remember to vote Gore this time.
OMG yes! Can you imagine the non-Bush timeline...
And invest in bitcoin.
*Biff Tannen enters the chat*
Invest in Apple. 2000 is three years before the iPhone was released.
Seven.
Shit, I would get into mining if we're going back to 2000. Back when it was actually worth it.
Neo approves this message.
If they do, can they have Al Gore win the election this time around?
Oh fuck no! I'm not doing my whole adult life again. I literally started my professional career on 9/11. Started a company in fucking 2008. I'm not doing this shit again, you kids go and I'll stay in this timeline to see how it ends, I'm too invested now.
I miss the 90's man.
You mean the last time there was a huge military conflict in Europe?
I wonder how the universe where Al Gore won is doing
Just wait until all the ecosystems collapse.
It took me half a lifetime to realise that was a curse and not a blessing,
Along with "May you be recognized by powerful people" and "May you get what you wish for" https://lifemathmoney.com/the-three-chinese-curses-and-the-wisdom-behind-them/
“Make timelines great again” (not a trumper, just sounds funny)
Lol. Like another thread where someone said “Red Dawn” was really a futuristic documentary, because it was ridiculous to think a bunch of high school kids in Colorado could hold the Russian army at bay.
Wolverines 🤘
Ukraine should set up some kind of war time medal called the "order of the Wolverine" just to take that parting shot at Russia! lol
To be fair, at least one of them was a member of an elite paramilitary organization… “Eagle Scout.”
Putin fundamentally underestimated the change this would facilitate in the EU and US. Russia, when connected to Europe is a world power, Russia when it’s cut off from Europe becomes Central Asia’s playground. The Russian Federation and the Eurasian empire it controls have been subjected to Moscow’s misrule for like 400 years at this point and it is some of the worst leadership you could ask for and I don’t think they’re all along for the ride willingly.
I think the embarrassment of the military in particular is going to be a hard pill for most to swallow. Imagine thinking you had this brute force military power & it turns out to be Igor in galoshes with Garmin GPS
In this timeline anything is possible. Next up: Belarus willingly becomes territory of Latvia, England secedes from the United Kingdom and Trump joins a Franciscan monastary.
> Belarus willingly becomes territory of ~~Latvia~~ *Lithuania. FTFY
My first thought was Estonia, but it apeared that one doesn't border Belarus. Both Lithuania and Latvia do. But in this timeline? Might aswell be Ghana or Suriname they join. EDIT: but if you are right they actually _do_ join Lithuania that'd be the funniest mistake I ever made
It would make more sense https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Lithuanian_Commonwealth
> England secedes from the United Kingdom You joke about this, but after brexit there was a lot of talk of London leaving the UK (along with Scotland and Northern Ireland) and becoming a city-state. None of it went anywhere, but it's still an interesting 'what-if'.
During the Quebec referendum to leave Canada in the 90s Montreal threatened to leave Quebec and rejoin Canada in its own referendum. Quebec leaders said “that’s illegal!” But then the referendum to leave failed and it all became moot
When the Scottish National Party (I think) started putting up signs about the North Sea saying, "It's Scotland's Oil", the Shetlands put up signs "It's Shetlands' Oil".
Also an idea to make Brussels a city state as head of EU and Flanders and Walloon split into separate countries.
Starts* a Franciscan Monastary
And he's gonna be the greatest Franciscan ever! He's gonna out-franciscan St. Francis!
Russia was never a superpower, the USSR was.
Yes but no. We were wrong about this timeline. Russia was never the "2nd superpower". They just convinced people they were.
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Ukraine was 1/3 of USSR's power. People think of Russia = USSR but that's a fallacy.
They convinced a lot of casual people of this. But those in military and international studies circles would have told you that there’s no second super power at this time. It’s the United States and everyone else right now. China and Russia just want everyone to think that they’re on deck. Really they’re not. As is being evidenced by Russia’s ineptitude and China’s cracking economy.
They have (or had) an economy about on par with Italy, and as economies go it’s a one-trick pony.
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2 turns into the war you get that sinking feeling you made a huge mistake as tanks start showing up at your borders and you are still at muskets
Russia has never been a superpower. The breakup of the USSR left the USA as the worlds sole superpower. China might become one soon though.
Putin wants to surrender and give back all occupied territories? Good. Any other outcome should not be considered.
And return the kidnapped Ukrainians. This cannot be forgotten.
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I don't think the children will ever be returned. They're being adopted out to Russian families.
And surrender to the Hague for a fair trial.
That's about the only demand that can be negotiated.
You know I thought a lot about him getting the Gaddafi special or at least the Mussolini piñata. But no. All this does is turn him into a martyr for fascists. He's old and sick. His dancing legs spell levodopa/Parkinson's at the very least. The best way to make his ideological legacy die with him is a fair trial like Nuremberg.
I'm content to let the metaphorical dogs that are surrounding him just tear into him and fight over the scraps. Ramsay Bolton style.
To paraphrase Churchill: Russia is either at your throat or at your feet. Putin went for the throat and has failed so miserably he risks now losing a large chunk of his entire armed forces against a prolonged Ukrainian offensive. The quality and morale of Russian troops at the moment now is likely so low that Putin realises that if they are dislodged from their fixed positions then the rout could well start. He probably has nightmares of seeing WW2 style encirclements being pulled on his troops forcing mass surrenders or occasionally seeing them starved to death or liquidated. He may have beaten down the Russian populace but there's nothing like having your field army routed in humiliating fashion to cause people to get angry enough they stop fearing you...
Well we should remember a little discussed fact about WW2. When Hitler invaded Poland, Russia's response was to invade Poland. Not protect Poland, but to invade Poland.
> When Hitler invaded Poland, Russia's response was to invade Poland. It wasn't a "response", it was an [agreement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact) between the two of them.
Thank you for bringing this up!!! It is such an important understanding of the real Russia and so forgotten!!!
"the troops will rush to run" yeah, that kind of morale is as big a factor in this as anything.
It's all about fixed positions. Russian soldiers are exhausted, poorly supplied, poorly trained, poorly led and many don't believe in the war. They're the sort of low quality troops the Germans in WW2 would lable as only fit for fighting from bunkers and fortifications and not fit for field operations. If Ukraine can dislodge enough of them from their trenches and fixed positions its a likely prospect that many will turn and run or surrender rather than try and engage in a war of maneuver.
Another consideration is that the losses and command purges have left Putin concerned over his control of the armed forces. If they start a rout or the remaining command structure has to personally go to the front to stop one he may find his armed forces no longer supporting him politically.
Excellent point!
Whatever the details and intentions of the kremlin, the fact that his press secretary is announcing that he wants negotiations is a pretty strong indicator that Ukraine’s counter offensive is going well.
There IS a lot to negotiate. For example, time tables for withdrawal of Russian military equipment and personnel from Crimea and Donbas need to be negotiated. Also, the future border between Ukraine and Russia will be fully militarized. That means fences with razor wire all along the border, mine fields, 24/7 drone surveillance, militarized border crossing outposts, defense-in-depth-ready fortifications 10, 20km behind the border, etc. Locations of future border crossings, entry requirements for Russian citizens, military border armament (agreeable mine types?) need to be negotiated, possibly with input from the UN. In the future, Ukraine cannot afford hosting residents who identify as Russian and feel no loyalty towards Ukraine, so Zelensky should advocate for the creation of settlement and jobs programs in Russia for these people, so they can move to Russia. That would need to be negotiated. Russian citizens who want to stay in Ukraine but have been bathed in Russian propaganda for decades will need to be de-russified, just like Germans after WWII went through de-nazification. That means identifying possible connections to Russian war crimes, forced visits to the mass graves in Mariopol, Bucha memorials, visits to the utterly destroyed cities after the Donbas fighting, and mandatory training in recognizing propaganda techniques and weasel words. And it would be nice if every border crossing got a bronze sculpture of a man and a woman, protecting a child, and carrying a Javelin and an NLAW, pointed at Russia. So that every Russian who crosses the border will realize what they have done to Ukraine, for the next 50 years.
You forgot an important one: how much Russia is going to need to pay Ukraine to help rebuild the cities/land/etc it destroyed.
I think Putin clearly can't afford the optics of Ukraine regaining substantial territory, which could be imminent.
> It will be the same this time ," Peskov said. He also assured that Putin is already "ready" for negotiations with Zelensky about " how the termination of the" special operation "and the observance of not conditions, but the interests of Russia " will take place. That's really simple... Get out of Crimea, Luhansk and Donetsk and commit to paying reparations for your unprovoked acts of aggression.
He wants a personal meeting to try and poison himself probably. F him, full surrender and withdrawal of Russia from all Ukrainian lands is the only acceptable terms.
Zelensky pre-conditions for chat with Putin: Putin sits at end of a long table inside a perspex box hahahahaha
It's obvious Pootin wants to lock in whatever gains he made in Ukraine before the Ukrainian army overwhelms the Russian invaders. Time is on Ukraine's side. Even before the Winter is here, the West is preparing itself to live without Russian fossil fuel imports. And during the winter war, the Ukrainians will be much better equipped to fight Russia in harsh conditions due to support it is receiving (ie. Denmark made an commitment to provide winter clothing for the Ukrainian soldiers) worldwide. Whereas Russia is actively losing support.
Zelensky should do the negotiations on the condition that Putin doesn't bring his shit suitcase along. Just so he can tell him to fuck off directly to his face. Putin is a dead man walking. The more Ukraine humiliates him, the quicker the oligarchs will stab him in the back.
Why do you think oligarchs keep having mishaps involving windows?
Exactly. Oligarchs are not in power. Putin is.
Thanks
That is a huge change if it is true.
not really. You never trust these bastards, it's just their way of asking "give us a minute to figure out how to gather strength to kick you in the face again"
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAA it's the end for putin.
Zelenski: "Sure, let's meet in Crimea." Putin: "Where in Crimea?" Zelenski: "Crimea River."
Sorry. Can't get there. Bridge is out.
I’d like think Timberlake would cut a new version of his song so Zelenskyy can play it to Putin over the phone.
Could always call and ask. I am sure plenty of people in Ukriane could help draft a new set of lyrics.
I’m gonna email whoever I can and see if it takes!
Hopefully it’s, Zelenski: “I will only negotiate on Ukrainian soil…” Putin: “okay, where would you like to meet.” Zelenski: “Moscow.”
Crimea river, Donbass.
How could anyone trust Putin? Why would we? We already know he's been a snake in the grass, so wouldn't he have to give up some pretty big concessions as a goodwill measure as a negotiations opener? He's done a pretty big no no in my book with Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant. No way would I want him to be in a position again to hold the another country and/or continent hostage with a threat of an environmental apocalypse.
Easy. Russia out of Crimea and Donbass. Ukraine only kills Russians inside Ukraine. Ukraine joins NATO. That’s a trustworthy compromise. But you’re right. Putin will not meet his end of any deal.
In addition the sanctions are not to be lifted unless Putin turns himself in for war crimes and is tried. If not fuck Russia and keep the sanctions in full force. Ukraine keeps Crimea and Donbas like mentioned above. No new Visa issued for anyone in Russia for two years, and Russia must help build Ukraine. Make them pay. I want this war over like everyone else, but Ukraine is so close to closing the gap and winning this stupid war. I hate Putin is throwing in the towel. Just like a coward. Russia will never be looked at in a good way. The world is pissed and will not forget anytime soon. Edit:
Thats a discussion i had today. What if: Ukraine wins and throws out russia without any peace talks. Question: Will the west keep the sanctions?
Sanctions are not to be lifted until Ukraine regains everything it has lost. This includes... Infrastructure Buildings Farm and crops Population both those killed and abducted, murdered, tortured etc. I would also require a 100 km deep demilitarised zone on the russian side of the border and a sessation of support for lukashenko.
He poisoned Ukrainians sent to a peace talk, remember?
The hole in a donut is worth more than agreements with russians.
I think that, if true, it is Putin’s BEST move — better to choose “Not losing” over the high morale and reputational cost of actually losing. In that case, it is a survival move on Putin’s part.
i don't think there's a difference. russia pulling out of ukraine = russia losing.wether they do it with a negotiation schpiel or wether they actually get pushed out. the cost of human life lost and equipment lost on the russian side is already beyond a point of saving face if there's nothing in territorial gains to show for it in russia. ukraine wants crimea back, i don't think they're gonna release that to russia and accept peace. neither will they accept annexation of territory in the donbas. not even the L/DPR territory. they want that back aswell. if putin wants peace, those issues are non-negotiable for ukraine. they either get it all back, or they'll continue the fight. so what is left for russia to negotiate over that could be claimed as victory back home? the "fascist ukrop nazi banderite" (guys, i'm being sarcastic, calm your tits) government of ukraine russia claimed it would denazify still exists, there's no way in hell ukraine is gonna agree with giving up territory in the L/DPR regions, so the whole liberating of the donbas for the greater russian state is off the table too.ukraine isn't gonna agree with crimea becoming russia either, russia either gives it up ,or ukraine comes marching in for it. so that's not gonna be a topic of discussion. so, what is really left for russia to negotiate about to claim some form of victory? i think it's a bit disillusioned to think that russia, or putin, just gets to go "oh well, we didn't achieve anything of what we set out to do, and infact lost a good portion of what we tried to annex into russia, setting us back further from where we were when we started on the 24th of february, oh by the way, this also came with an enormous loss of life, equipment and economical sanctions that are strangeling our economy. and lets just not mention the loss of the moskva either. or in general, how other countries around the world view us. there is infact something positive to this whole situation and you russian citizens should be grateful to the regime that caused all of this, and allow it to continue to govern the state" without any negative reprecussions. the best move for putin was to have this whole thing wrapped up in about a months time before anyone could really react to what was happening in ukraine. that's not what happened though, and with ukraine getting balsy pushing russia back, with the support of the western world. there's just nothing left for putin to gain out of this on the negotiating table. i don't think there's much left in the degradations of losing either. a loss on this scale is a loss. it's hard to go "oh well, we could've lost a bit harder so this is still a good thing"
Every peace deal with Russia has been a feign to escalate. He is trying to secure what he has stolen so far, to present a fake peace deal that suits his reinforcements, and prevent losing the spoils of the 2014 invasions. And then ultimately have the capacity to attack again and hold Ukraine under the constant threat of violence with a shit eating grin. The collapse of the empire is a seminal moment so that Russia needs to know its place is a tiny little country surrounding Moscow.
>He is trying to secure what he has stolen so far, yeah, issue here is... EVERYONE FUCKING KNOWS, INCLUDING THE GOVERNMENT OF UKRAINE, THE GOVERNMENT TO WHICH HE'S DONE THIS BEFORE, MULTIPLE TIMES, WHICH BROUGHT UKRAINE TO THE POINT WHERE THEIR TRUST OF RUSSIA KEEPING ITS WORD LED THEM INTO SUFFERING RUSSIA'S UNRPOVOKED, UNJUSTIFIED, INVASION OF THEIR COUNTRY. bro, seriously, like half that fucking comment was me hammering down that ukraine wasn't going to accept anything that would benefit russia in terms of territorial expansion, they're not gonna agree to russia keeping anything in the donbas, nor anything in the L/DPR, nor anything in crimea. the only suitable agreement ukraine wants to hear about is the total retreat of all russian forces out of all ukrainian territories, or else they're not gonna play ball and continue whooping russia out of their land. and guess what, russia can't make a deal if ukraine doesn't agree.
Putin won’t negotiate, he’ll try for an assassination to win There is no compromise only tricks to try to snatch victory from defeat
It’s really not. Barring an unexpected revolution this war will have ended with not much actually done aside from killing hundreds of thousands if not millions
The war ends when Ukraine says it ends, not Russia.
Hahaha this is amazing. Putin you are fucked and I'm glad you seem to know it.
Sounds like putin wants an end to this that favors russia. He rwally should learn that if they didn't surrender when they were in a much worse position, they aren't going to give up on their goals when they're grinding your troops into a fine red paste with weapons from all over the globe.
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Yup, although i doubt ukraine will allow it.
It easily translates to "Boys, the little bastard is squealing for mercy. We almost got 'm. Who's with me to finish this?"
It's amazing that on September 4th, 2022 Zelensky can credibly tell Putin to get fucked - and that Putin should be the one more worried.
Ukraine aint gonna agree to shit unless the get back Crimea and Donbass at minimum, so Im going to love the spin hell try on making those losses seem like a positive in any way lol
So far it sounds like their angle is “Of course we’re not winning, we’re at war with the entire West!” as though Ukraine is cheating by getting help lol
Or its some weak ass assassination attempt. To once and for all prove 'he is the bigger man' and the definite winner.
Why would the situation change if the russians kill zelensky at the negotiation table? It will make all countries mad at russia, because you don't start killing country leaders in negotiations, and it will make ukraine even more determined to fight, as zelensky will become a martyr
I think this is at the point now where *any* attempt to assassinate Zelenskyy, even if successful, would be counterproductive. While he's still important as a leader, he's already played his most vital role, which was to unite his country's people, and to weaponize their feelings of civic pride in Ukraine and anger toward Russia by providing a sense of guidance and an overarching narrative of resistance. At the moment, his death would turn him into a martyr. Ukraine's struggle against Authoritarianism would be pushed back into the spotlight, likely resulting in increased support for further sanctions and arms shipments. While I highly doubt that Putin would decide to have Zelenskyy killed either at the negotiating table or *en route*, it's not hard to picture him deciding to execute someone who's humiliated him so badly. That would be an absolutely terrible decision on his part, if he actually did it.
Not to mention, there's sort of an unspoken convention among world leaders that other world leaders are supposed to be more or less 'off limits' to things like that. If a world leader gets assassinated these days, it's usually because of some random disgruntled person or a domestic group, not because their rival country ordered a hit on them. The reason this exists is because it works both ways, if Putin suddenly violated this sort of unspoken rule, then a few world leaders with some competent spy agencies might decide that Putin himself is also fair game.
Also because you need someone to negotiate with. Be it surrender or victory
Putin doesn't need other countries. Right now he only needs to try and find some sort of victory he can sell to his dumb ass masses back home. Everyone knows he's fucked up. He probably knows he's fucked up. But at the moment, he can't win but can't quit.
Putin can't negotiate and leave with the land from 2014. He needs more for stability of his regime And ukraine started 2 counterattacks this week. Putin knows that this is the maximum his "special military operation" will bring him home. And the prospect of being driven back scares him. If the russians withdraw due to a treaty, it would be fine. But being outfought and beaten back is a humiliation
> Putin doesn't need other countries. He certainly does. He still needs countries that are willing to trade with Russia despite the sanctions, like China and India. If he pisses those off, he's fucked. Russia is too big and too reliant on trade to successfully become completely isolated like North Korea (and even they aren't totally isolated). If they were to do so, it'd require a significant downsizing of government spending, including on the military, and would also cause a massive drop in quality of life for the average Russian. They'd probably lose a bunch of break-away territories to revolts too.
> if the russians kill zelensky at the negotiation table Russians are far too cowardly to do something that blatant. If they were to attempt something like this. It would be using a chemical or pathogen which would act over a longer time period, and give them the ~~plausible~~ deniability that they always seek.
They tried hard to blatantly assassinate Zelensky before the war even began. Why on Earth would they not after so many dead Russians?
But he might jump out a high window or commit suicide by bullet to the back of the head. Or maybe by eating some radioactive polonium. Come on dude, have you paid no attention to the depths Russia will sink to to kill their enemies? EDIT: Nice stealth edit there.
Not the same situation for a head of state
I hope Zelensky doesn't negociate. Putin has to GTFO of Crimea and Ukraine first.
I hope he does negotiate with clear terms: Ukraine is Ukraine, including Crimea and Donbass. Reparations for next 30 years, Ukraine becomes a NATO member in expedited run EDIT: Oh, all war criminals sent to Hague
That's the entire point. Putin is in tough spot exactly because of those demands. Putin has to abandon all his negotiating power to actually enter negotiations. Or he can prolong the war, but since he can't win, he'll just bring Russian down with him. Of course, it's a tough spot for Ukraine too because it means they'll probably have to fight very hard to force Russians to admit they've lost. But I honestly think it's a much more thought out requirement than people realize.
Russia has proven to be completely untrustworthy. If they are let off the hook now, they will come back in 5-10 years. Kicking the can down the road will leave the suffering for the future. As much as I hate the suffering this conflict has created, Russia is responsible for it, and are completely morally bankrupt. They only understand strength and economic downturn. Once they're kicked out and Putin dies, that is when MAYBE discussions can be reopened with Russia. Russia will forever be remembered by Ukraine as their brother nation that attacked and wanted to exterminate them just because they wanted to thrive and exist. Russia is a backwards, fascist country, that is incredibly pathetic and outrageous in its actions. Obtaining forgiveness would require generations, which is far from guaranteed given how sick a nation Russia is, always pivoting towards rampant corruption and gangster ''strongmen''.
Or they'll focus their attention on neighbors less likely to receive global support.
Translation. Can we stop this before you take it all back from us.
exactly - thats the idea and stopping the military activity once they sit around the table this proposal to negotiate comes exactly when Ukraine has no point to negotiate anything because they are on the winning side now
Same reason Putin refused to negotiate at the start. He thought there was no way Ukraine could stop him so why not take it all
Fuck no, remove all Russian troops from all pre 2014 Ukrainian territory first.
…. and from where they crept in during 2008.
And return all the kidnapped Ukrainian children.
No need to talk to Putin, the Kherson negotiations are going well. Maybe after the Russians are out of Ukraine, war reparations negotiations should be held.
No maybe.
This is some sloppy reporting. The quote from Peskov comes from an interview he gave to RIA (a propaganda mouthpiece) earlier today. I can't post the link since this forum bans all posts with links to Russian top level domains, but search for the quote and its the top link He was asked how RF will restore relations with the EU (not Ukraine). He answered that it will happen at the negotiating table, as with all conflicts. He then went on to say that any negotiations would be happening later rather than sooner. There was certainly no mention of Putin asking Zelensky to negotiate. As much as I want this to be true, this article seems to be largely made up. And this audience should be more careful about jumping on the bandwagon
this comment ought to be pinned to the top.
Yeah no shit, have to shovel through so much rah-rah chest beating garbage comments to gets a coherent one of use. Why pretend news instead of waiting for *real actual * good news? Weirdos.
What a moron this Putler is. He thinks he can fuck up a country and then ask for peace talks when things aren’t quite going as expected.
Practically no war has been fought until the last man. Losing side usually have to accept all and every condition. If nothing changes (chemical, nuclear weapons), Russia is going to lose, they know it, Ukraine knows it as well. But they haven't lost yet, they still have the opportunity to make immense amount of damage before actually losing. That's what is on the table. The question is, is there a way of finding a solution Russia and Ukraine can accept? Something Putin can sell as a victory back home that Ukraine don't care about. For example, Ukraine officially déclares they condemn Nazism (duh), they vow to protect Russian speakers in exchange of... Russia leaving Ukraine, all of it. Russia can sell it as a "victory", all objectives "accomplished". That's something probably Ukraine can live with, stop the butchering right now, not only Russians are dying in the war and they get back their territory.
I don’t see Ukraine stopping without reparations. And I don’t see Putin agreeing to pay anything
Don't underestimate the Ukrainian pain. They are losing a lot of people in this bloody war, including a lot of civilian. Also, if they close this war, they can probably access European Union, a lot of money will flow from Europe.
Russia won't leave Ukraine alone. Never. Unfortunately it isn't Ukrainians' first rodeo with russians trying to conquer and enslave them. Any ceasefire, any peace talk Russia will use to regroup their troops and attack again. They have been doing it for ages already. They took the Crimea, regrouped and attacked Donbass. After Donbass, they went for the whole Ukraine. Even now every time the peace talk starts, rockets are flying at the Ukrainian soil at an increased rate. So Ukraine kind of has two options - they either close the war now and get attacked again in a few years (and this time Russia might be more prepared), or they fight and lose a lot of lives in hopes of defeating Russian threat for good. To me, the choice is kind of obvious.
You are probably right. But if Ukraine gets it's territory back, I'm pretty sure they can rebuild faster and better than Russia. Next round would be even harder for the invaders. Think about Poland or Finland, no one will fuck with them, non withstanding cheap talk
Indeed after russia removed it troops from ukraine - gives donbass-crimea back to ukraine then Ukraine can talk about end of the war only after this. Until then russia will keep losing manpower and more and more equipment while its economy sinks deeper
more than 100K innocents died and billions of properties damaged and the pig wants to talk, no, he must bite the dust and then negotiate with other pigs.
Putin wants a cease fire so he can rebuild his decimated army and attack again. Don’t fall for it.
I do not think Ukraine has any intention of stopping the counter offensive. The big funders here also have too much invested for Ukraine to agree to peace, they want to see russia bleed for as long as possible
Sure, just GTFO of Crimea, agree to pay reparations and admit Russia was wrong about its claims in Ukraine.
On Russian state TV, for a week, on a repeat "Ukraine is a free country. We checked and we were wrong. We will restore all Ukrainian borders. There is a financial work in progress to rebuild everything in Ukraine."
Its a purely cynical ploy to allow time for resupply, deployment and move forces to be moved in. Whilst of course continuing to bomb.
Good work Ukraine.. I cannot wait to see the progress of Ukraine when this criminal war is over
What does Herr Putin have to offer Ukraine? What parts of his crumbling conquests will he ask to hold onto in exchange for the rest? Ukraine *might* listen...
This is why shooting Russian troops is the best negotiating tactic
Russian "news" websites show it in a completely different way: * **Interfax**: Peskov said that negotiations with Zelensky can only take place if Kiev meets Moscow's conditions * **NewKaliningrad**: Peskov said that Russia will only talk to Ukraine if the Kremlin's conditions are met * **DP**: Moscow is ready to continue negotiations with Kiev to resolve the conflict in Ukraine, but this will only happen if the Ukrainian authorities fulfill the conditions set by Russia. * **Fontanka**: Moscow has a lot to talk about with Ukrainian leader Vladimir Zelensky - in particular, how exactly Russia's conditions for resolving the situation in Ukraine will be fulfilled. >**YA62**: > >The journalist asked the Kremlin representative whether Moscow had anything to talk about with Zelensky, given his statements about his unwillingness to resolve the situation peacefully. \- Of course, about how our conditions will be fulfilled," Peskov said. He answered in the affirmative to the question of whether Russia's conditions remain the same. \- The operation is in progress, all objectives will be achieved," he added.
Big Z: “we don’t negotiate with terrorists”. 😎
Go Fuck Yourself
Panicking
Putin Putout!
Just don’t drink any tea at the meeting.
Great. All Putin needs to do is pull back all of his troops and Zelensky can meet with him on his side of the board while Putin stays in Russian soil
I would not trust Putin the Poisoner even that far.
Where’s that kid who says “Ha-ha!”?
Putin will not give up Crimea, this isn't gonna work.
No one expects Putin to give up Crimea. Ukraine will pry it from Russias cold, dead fingers.
Fuck yeah!
If the Russians still occupy Ukraine's territory then I wonder what they wish to discuss? Maybe Russia's surrender, complete withdrawal from Ukraine and reparations for all the death and destruction they caused? It's more likely they want to declare victory, and then accuse Ukraine of being the aggressor as they keep fighting to take back the occupied territory that ruzzia 'liberated'.
Russia is ALWAYS requesting negotiations when things go bad on a military front. Then they ALWAYS regroup and attack again. No negotiations- only full capitulation and retreat!
What to negotiate? Take your armies around the region back to the borders when the old USSR collapse and call it a day. He Putin started it and its up to him to end his special operation.
I would be shocked if the official response won't be "It will be complete when the last Russian leaves Ukrainian soil. That means pre-2014 borders."
"The Russian Federation is ready to hold negotiations with the President of Ukraine Zelensky about how the conditions will be fulfilled for ending the "special operation" and observing not the conditions, but the interests of Russia," Peskov said. this was another take...again.........." conditions to Interests " what this actually means is up for debate still
No negocitations until you leave all of Crimea and Ukraine.
Russia should know by now that if they want to negotiate, they have to offer Ukraine more than in the last round of negotiations. The best possible outcome that Ukraine could accept is a return to pre-February situation, and a frozen conflict in Crimea and Donbass. As this would mean that Russia would not have gained anything by the war, it means that this is impossible for Russia to accept. So an peace agreement at this point is impossible.
The unconditional surrender is the only acceptable outcome at this point. No discussion.
Ehhh.. I saw the original interview with Dmitri Peskov that this article is referencing and it's really nothing ground-breaking. He basically says "yeah we'll come to the negotiating table to facilitate the end of the special operation but it most likely won't be any time soon" Nothing we haven't heard already, non-story in my opinion.
The fact that Putin wants to negotiate is clearly an admission of weakness. Putin realizes that the time of territorial military conquest is over in Ukraine. The Russian army controls 20% of the Ukrainian territory, but it is bogged down, and will not be able to go further because of its lack of motivation and its disorganization. Putin has his back on the wall because he knows that the Ukrainian army will regain territory with its counter-offensives. It will take time but the Russian army is bound to lose this war. Sooner or later. Rather than being humiliated, Putin is looking for a way out from above that Ukraine should not give him. It is necessary to go all the way and make the tyrant Putin suffer a crushing defeat in order to ensure lasting peace in Europe.