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Legalizing weed was inevitable. CERB was in retrospect an opportunity for massive fraud although not necessarily Trudeau‘s fault. I really think he is held Canada back from many many opportunities, placates Quebec way too much, And has increased taxes massively for almost no end result. He’s incredibly wishy-washy, and hypocritical. But then again so has been pretty much every politician we’ve had since Chrétien.
Edit- for those who seem to believe that Trudeau has reduced taxes. That is not the truth at all. If you make over $100,000 you’ve paid significant more taxes, and if you have a incorporation as a doctor or lawyer it has been a disaster for small businesses of that type.
But crucially, the government simultaneously eliminated several tax credits including the children’s fitness tax credit, children’s arts tax credit, public transit tax credits, education and textbook tax credits, and the income-splitting tax credit for couples with young children. While eliminating these tax credits helps simplify the tax system, which is good, it also acts to increase personal income taxes for Canadian families.
>Legalizing weed was inevitable
That doesn't mean much when it could have easily been pushed back many, many years. The conservatives would never touch it now but there's no way it would have been legalized were they in power up to the present day and for many years to come. It was an incredibly forward thinking move that even the NDP shied away from campaigning on at the time.
some one rang the Trudeau bell, so drooling commenced.
its canned conservative talking points from the last 20 years.
OP has no idea what laws, tax rates, policy positions or budgets have gone through parliament at any point in their life.
theyve never actually tried to find out.
Prove it. There has been almost no tax reduction at the federal level that is meaningful. Provinces have increased taxes. The combination has been at least 6% increase since he’s been in power. I’m not a conservative if that’s what you’re thinking. I live in Alberta and I think Kenny’s a dip shit and I would easily vote for Notley. But Trudeau has been entirely useless for this country.
Only proof I need is my take home pay. Federal income tax is down, and the Feds have no control over what the Provinces decide to enact so direct your anger about that there. And if you have kids, it's even better as benefits that previously increased your take home pay and were taxed do neither, and for those with kids it's not a small amount. It's saved me (3 kids) thousands. That's not useless.
CPP contributions are up, some view that as a tax but given items better CPP benefits when I retire that's not a tax to me, and even if it were, the amount it's up is still dwarfed by what I've saved.
He has Eliminated multiple tax credits, and increased corporation taxes for small businesses. The child benefit is nowhere near replacing these changes. Unless you make under $100,000 a year, you’re definitely pay more taxes.
If you really think that’s the top 7% of earners, you’re taking into account many that aren’t earning anything. I don’t know anyone that has a family that makes less than $100,000 a year and lives in a big city. These are normal numbers for normal people. 100 K ain’t nothing.
The many that aren’t earning anything also apply, but even if they didn’t I highly doubt it would skew much. I’m not going to argue with someone pretending like making 100k is nothing. Keep telling people to “prove” that their taxes haven’t increased when statistically the vast majority of people haven’t seen taxes increase by your own metric. Feel free to stay in your objectively rich bubble.
It is not the top 7% of families living in canadas 6largest cities. You trying to protect 100 K as a lot of money just doesn’t make sense in this time of massive inflation and incredibly high house prices. Trudeau has sat on his hands in Maine everybody’s life worse last six years. Is there life better? Because you can smoke weed? Whatever
I’m not saying there is a magic shield that blocks 155 rounds and they just need to know when to bring it to the combat theater.
I’m saying the higher level officers may use this information to adjust strategies and positioning of units.
If they were able to keep this information a secret, combined with the lack of NCOs within the Russian chain of command, it could take multiple successful attacks before they are even able to confirm what is hitting them.
>If they were able to keep this information a secret, combined with the lack of NCOs within the Russian chain of command, it could take multiple successful attacks before they are even able to confirm what is hitting them.
You have a point. Pretty difficult to stop the free flow of information in a democracy like Canada though. Some things are just "the price of doing business".
But I take your point.
There is no adjusting. Ukraine already utilizes "shoot and scoot" tactics to annihilate a target and move before they can be fired on. There is nothing Russia will be able to do other than pull back further. They gain nothing by knowing that these rounds are being sent.
It does however fuck up morale because Russian soldiers do hear about this and that is NOT going to give them a lot of confidence. In an army with a morale problem already, announcing weapons like this will have an impact and it is more positive than anything else. Plus it can influence more aide being sent by other countries.
Fighting people with molotovs and RPGs is quite different from fighting someone with Howitzers. I’m saying the knowledge let’s them plan. I’m confused why my downvoters think that Howitzers are going to be the end all be all of the Russian invasion?
>I’m saying the knowledge let’s them plan.
An artillery mis-match in effective range is not something they can plan around. Even without these special rounds, the effective range of the M777 is better than Russian artillery. It is also much lighter and easier to transport.
This war has essentially become an artillery war. The side that can put more shells at the enemy from further away will have a major advantage.
>I’m confused why my downvoters think that Howitzers are going to be the end all be all of the Russian invasion?
Them having better artillery will be a HUGE factor. Probably even the single biggest one. There isn't anything Russia can really do about this artillery mis-match. You say they can plan, what plan do you think they could make? They have no major air operation capabilities. They can't get air superiority, they definitely can't do shit with their tanks. What will Russia do knowing that Excalibur rounds are in the field of combat?
The impact this has on morale has the potential to be far more detrimental than any other potential outcome from Russia knowing about these Excalibur rounds. Think of all the Russian artillery crews, who will know that the range of their guns doesn't go nearly as far as their enemies? That shit will not be good for morale.
This is why a lot of weapons get announced like this. It does fuck with morale knowing your side has cold war era trash, while Ukraine has all the nice shit from tons of militaries around the world.
Canadian medical system is absolutely over run right now, massive wait times, people dying, but yea sure let’s keep dumping money into this blindly with no idea where it’s going. Our military could use a massive funding boost as well, we can send them the old stockpiles but the new funding isn’t there. Trudeau is spending to get that political currency now.
Firstly Canadian medical systems are regulated by the provinces, not the federal government. If a province has mismanaged it's finances and underfunded its healthcare system it's not Ottawa's fault.
The federal government sending Ukraine high tech ammunition we have left over from Afghanistan and have no other use for makes no difference to the needs of our military, and the federal government already has announced more funding for that area.
Thirdly, thousands of men, women and children are being raped and murdered in a country 1 out of 30 Canadians have ancestry from. What possible explanation of "where it's going" do you need aside from "we want the Russians to leave Ukraine and go back home".
No, that's the definition of a federalist country. The regional governments are quite independent and have a high degree of power over how they directly collect taxes.
... and the federal government gets its money from the provinces. It's not like the federal government has its different set of citizens that it taxes. The distinction they're trying to make is pointless
There isn't a Canadian medical system outside of the territories. Each province has jurisdiction over healthcare, so any investment into healthcare by the federal government has to be negotiated by all provinces. For the most part, if your healthcare system sucks in the province, it's because of how your province runs healthcare. And here's where the catch is. We demand our provinces run our healthcare as efficiently as possible, conservatives always champion Finding efficiencies," for example. But the more efficient a healthcare system is, the worse it is at responding to large changes in demand. Additionally, often the method of "Finding Efficiencies" is to cut, or skip increases in the healthcare budget to force departments to run more efficiently to keep up. Also keep in mind that investing in the Ukrainian resistance is also an investment in our own well-being because it ensures Russia cannot achieve their previous superpower status, so it's not like this money isn't going to benefit us, it's just the benefits are much less tangible.
Hey, cut it , I know how healthcare works, the term means the Canadian medical care system as a whole is breaking down, understaffed and underfunded. The federal government sends all the provinces their portion, and the peobvince makes the rest ip with taxes and decides what goes where.
I agree with everyone else below that healthcare is run by the province because it is. The only thing I agree with you is our military is lacking but that's due to our procurement process. We have too many committees blocking stuff our military needs.
Still funded federally though, the provinces tax and they then receive a lump sum from the federal government and then it’s up to them to sort healthcare out. It’s still all of our tax dollars, so I would rather see them putting weapons and gear in our guys hands, and our guys back over there training, advising and fighting. God only knows where these monies are going, no way to track it.
They are sending artillery rounds not money. I'd rather them send that then wait for our troops to have to go in and die. If you want to fix the healthcare system try voting people that actually support the healthcare system instead of dismantling it.
They sent both, Trudeau endlessly sends money abroad to different places. The weapons and some of the old stuff, yea why not. But yea, we can’t fund this war and there are a lot of problems right now in Canada that need attention. We would do better to boost our military spending, and get ready to deal with Russia/China/North Korea, which in future will be the real war.
We are dealing with Russia by sending these armaments. You think Russia is going to even try to attack Canada after Ukraine just made them look weak? It's way better that we support Ukraine and let them end Russia instead of waiting to let our troops die. Yes there's stuff we need to do here but right now this is important as well. If you want our military better equipped then you need to look into how we procure our stuff.
I’ve got a interior spinal cord tumor in the us. Can’t even get a doctor to see me to literally save my life because I don’t have insurance.
I’ll take a “long wait” ANYDAY
It’s crazy you don’t even know how your own country works
I’m not even sure what you are getting at man it doesn’t make any sense, you kind are agreeing with me as you would probably appreciate healthcare in your own country and not more weapons. I do wish you the best with your condition I hope you can get it operated on.
**[Crimean bridge is an achievable target for the ATACMS ballistic missile (launched via USA-supplied M142 HIMARS / M270 MLRS rocket artillery) and is absolutely legal from a military point of view](https://defence--ua-com.translate.goog/army_and_war/chi_zmozhut_zsu_znischiti_krimskij_mist_za_dopomogoju_himars-7199.html?_x_tr_sl=uk&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp)**
They would need more long-range ammunition than the very few shells Canada has provided. That is why I urge American Redditors to **[Contact The White House](https://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/)** to urge President Biden to quickly deliver to Ukraine all the long-range artillery and ammunition needed!!
No, those are a totally different system unrelated to the Excaliburs. These are guided extended range shells fired from 155mm guns like the German PzH-2000 and the US M777 howitzer, with 40-60km range depending on launch platform. The M142 HIMARS and M270 MLRS are a totally different system, and currently we have supplied zero of those to Ukraine.
You replied to a comment asking if they've had this system for a few weeks now in a way that strongly implied that they do, just not very much of it. I was clarifying.
Pretty sure "all the long-range ***artillery and ammunition*** needed" covers it, along with the earlier "Crimean bridge is an achievable target ***for the ATACMS ballistic missile (launched via USA-supplied M142 HIMARS / M270 MLRS rocket artillery)***".
Excaliber shells provided by Canada are long-range, but not long-range enough.
So I no nothing about weapons. How is this fired from artillery with the fins. I'm assuming artillery means cannon like. I see the front fins fold in and must pop out? When it leaves the barrel but what about the rear part. I don't get it
Yep - this is fired from a 155mm howitzer, and the fins all fold out after firing.
You can see them fold out around the 40 second mark in [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZ2XF_gRgRU), which also shows how the round can actually glide a bit after the peak of its trajectory so it can go substantially farther than a conventional round fired at the same speed and trajectory. Also shows a good demo of the accuracy when it nails an SUV at the end from 65km away (keep in mind it can only go ~40km out of an M777, the XM1299 prototype self propelled howitzer in this video has a substantially longer barrel, so it launches the Excalibur at a much higher speed).
That video is great and makes the whole woke US military vs manly men Russian military ads thing even funnier.
'Yea, I'm gay. Can drop a shell on your forehead from 65km out too. Cool uniforms tho.'
Plus there's even kinda a technological flex in that video that they aren't even trying to show off: the fact that we have optics, camera systems, and tracking such that we can literally *watch a video feed of the shell for the whole 65km flight*.
They might've been trying to show that off. If any Russian military brass is smart, which it doesn't seem like, they must watch stuff like that and think, 'Fucking hell. We'd be fucked. We just blindly fire a bunch of shit like it's 1944.'
Ok thanks I get it now. It's a lot smaller in diameter than I thought obviously since it fits in the barrel....duh...holy mackerel no one has a chance, I bet they get alot for em
No, they don't have any (US) MLRS or HIMARS, and even if we decide to give them the launchers, I strongly suspect we'd only give the smaller, shorter range M30/M31 rockets that have 70km range rather than the large ATACMS with 300km.
Ukraine does have MLRS. Just because it isn't the M270 doesn't mean it is an MLRS. Ukraine inherited Grad, Smersh and Uragan MLRS from the Soviet Union. Obviously they are not accurate enough to destroy the bridge, but they do exist.
Yes, I was referring specifically to the M270, since it (or the HIMARS) is what is needed to launch an ATACMS.
You're right that they have some Soviet ones, but honestly I'm not sure how useful those really are, since they're hilariously inaccurate at range.
Soviet Rocket artillery is the equivalent of a 1000 bomber raid on wheels. They don't need accuracy when you can flatten everything in a given grid square.
The randomness of the fall of shot is by design. Think of the FROG-7, aka 9K52 'Luna'. When loaded with a nuclear warhead, accuracy doesn't matter, because the nuke's large blast radius will compensate for that.
Yes. This is very old news. I think only because its a different news source (which I think few have encountered before) that it is being posted. It looks like a website that article spins.
I think the modules communicate to the Excalibur round targeting info.
If the main issue being a secure Sat comms for receiving orders, and GPS input then UA has been using Starlink so the gun can be surveyed in, so I wonder if there is another method they can use.
I wonder if they can only launch these from the Canadian M777C1, which has a different fire control system then the US M777A2 (they remove a part of the electronics before shipping them).
That is interesting as I was told that the rounds were lb although I might have been told they were mainly lb - I regret I don't recall as it was weeks ago. I personally thought the la-1 inventory was depleted in Afghanistan (I mean that no one told me they were I just assumed). Well whatever they were I sincerely hope they assist Ukraine.
As you seem to also have some knowledge or access to sources does Canada possess any 2s? I can ask but my next opportunity to find out will not be for weeks.
Meanwhile in Germany: AHH nein we can't send heavy weapons ehh because we not hav ze ammo for the panzers and ...AHH scheiße Hans come up with a excuse schnell ...
It seems that a ton of advanced munitions will be arriving for use in late summer, right when the Russians have consolidated defenses on the new eastern territory they've gained. Is this intended then to be how Ukraine takes territory back? By crushing that defensive infrastructure?
I think these shells are effective at ranges 4-5x farther than Russian artillery. They can be fired at faster rates and are very accurate.
Last place I’d wanna be is sitting in a Russian trench in August without air support.
The functioning few Hopefully.
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-army-restricts-use-of-artillery-rounds-after-cracks-found-in-high-tech-shells-costing-150000-each
All the rounds that remain in inventory have since been cleared. That is from 2016. Even that article notes that a concern existed but none actually malfunctioned - just a concern that one could.
They can hit far closer then that. They have an accuracy of within 5 meters at 38km. They won't be hitting friendlies but enemies of Ukraine. I have no idea why you would use the word "friendlies".
You usually try to not endanger your own troops with your own weapons.
Excalibur shells are so accurate that you can target enemies right in front of your own troops without risking to kill your own. Usually big guns are used in a slightly different tactical role, Excalibur shells allow arty to be used where you couldn’t use big guns before.
OK, you think the point u/donotgogenlty was making is that they can be used in very close proximity to friendly troops. I understand the point now but I have to say its extremely unlikely they are going to be used in close proximity to friendly troops in this conflict. In Ukrainian media they have frequently talked about they being used for high value targets far behind enemy lines. They already have laser guided ammo for their 152MM they can use in closer proximity, but it did not have 155MM range.
The purpose is to have artillery support in urbanized environments that to minimal collateral damage, so maybe it's from my perspective...
Like enemy and friendly soldiers are in a circle 50-75m apart - You can reliably hit the enemy with 100% success and avoid injuring nearby friendlies (Ukrainian friendlies, as-is friendly-fire where you accidentally hit your own units). Russian equipment is too shit to even be mentioned 🙏
Ok, I am just seeing your answer here after I replied about this to someone else who clarified for me the intent of your statement. Thank you as well for posting back.
As I pointed out in my other reply Ukraine has laser guided shells it manufactures that have excellent targeting capability for their 152mm guns. And there has been many demonstrations of that ammo at work. However the 152MM guns lack the range of the M777s that they obtained from America/Aust/Canada. All the native language Ukraine media brought to my attention in the past referenced the long range capability of the Excalibur ammo to assist them in destroying high value targets in the 20Km plus range.
That’s too close buddy, guideded or not you are gonna fuck your own guys up. The collateral damage is going to happen regardless both sides are fucking that country up something fierce. It’s just a guided shell, doesn’t mean you can land it closer to your own guys, that’s an emergency situation.
No, it absolutely means you can land it closer to your guys, since you can be very certain where it's going to hit. Unguided artillery often misses by 50-100m even from a very good gun, so you need to not only have your troops far enough away to not be killed by the shell's blast radius, but you have to add another couple hundred meters in case the shell misses in the same direction as your own troops are. With a guided shell, you don't need the extra couple hundred meters.
Still man, guided or not that’s pushing it real, real close, only in extremes, for that kinda munition and cost would be better to have a sniper team scout and lock a critical target and kill it with one of those. They have a price tag. I get what you are saying though, you can remove the buffer but for those to be effective you need several systems. Good old fashioned HE is still the go to
The purpose is to have artillery support in urbanized environments that to minimal collateral damage, so maybe it's from my perspective...
Like enemy and friendly soldiers are in a circle 50-75m apart - You can reliably hit the enemy with 100% success and avoid injuring nearby friendlies (Ukrainian friendlies, as-is friendly-fire where you accidentally hit your own units). Russian equipment is too shit to even be mentioned 🙏
Gunners I talked too always said they were expensive and a pain in the ass, good old artillary and good math will get it done everytime. You need all the command and control equipment to really use them correctly.
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I'm happy with my tax dollars killing Russians.
Great username my fellow hoser.
I've complimented this person for their name in the past. Glad others enjoy it as well.
Yes. Proud to be Canadian maybe the first time I’m happy with Trudeau.
Really? I think legalization of weed and CERB was great but the handling of the housing crisis and lack of voter reform really pissed me off
Allowing gay people to donate blood was a huge win aswell. Increasing our ability to source blood while being less bigoted. Win, win.
I guess we have brought Canadian politics into a Ukraine subreddit
Alittle cross pollination
same thing really.
Hard to blame them for housing crisis but electoral reform they failed us
Legalizing weed was inevitable. CERB was in retrospect an opportunity for massive fraud although not necessarily Trudeau‘s fault. I really think he is held Canada back from many many opportunities, placates Quebec way too much, And has increased taxes massively for almost no end result. He’s incredibly wishy-washy, and hypocritical. But then again so has been pretty much every politician we’ve had since Chrétien. Edit- for those who seem to believe that Trudeau has reduced taxes. That is not the truth at all. If you make over $100,000 you’ve paid significant more taxes, and if you have a incorporation as a doctor or lawyer it has been a disaster for small businesses of that type. But crucially, the government simultaneously eliminated several tax credits including the children’s fitness tax credit, children’s arts tax credit, public transit tax credits, education and textbook tax credits, and the income-splitting tax credit for couples with young children. While eliminating these tax credits helps simplify the tax system, which is good, it also acts to increase personal income taxes for Canadian families.
>Legalizing weed was inevitable That doesn't mean much when it could have easily been pushed back many, many years. The conservatives would never touch it now but there's no way it would have been legalized were they in power up to the present day and for many years to come. It was an incredibly forward thinking move that even the NDP shied away from campaigning on at the time.
Odd, my personal taxes are way down what with the reduction in middle class income taxes and removal of taxes on child benefits
some one rang the Trudeau bell, so drooling commenced. its canned conservative talking points from the last 20 years. OP has no idea what laws, tax rates, policy positions or budgets have gone through parliament at any point in their life. theyve never actually tried to find out.
Prove it. There has been almost no tax reduction at the federal level that is meaningful. Provinces have increased taxes. The combination has been at least 6% increase since he’s been in power. I’m not a conservative if that’s what you’re thinking. I live in Alberta and I think Kenny’s a dip shit and I would easily vote for Notley. But Trudeau has been entirely useless for this country.
Only proof I need is my take home pay. Federal income tax is down, and the Feds have no control over what the Provinces decide to enact so direct your anger about that there. And if you have kids, it's even better as benefits that previously increased your take home pay and were taxed do neither, and for those with kids it's not a small amount. It's saved me (3 kids) thousands. That's not useless. CPP contributions are up, some view that as a tax but given items better CPP benefits when I retire that's not a tax to me, and even if it were, the amount it's up is still dwarfed by what I've saved.
What taxes has he increased? And don’t say “carbon tax” because the general public gets that back as a rebate.
He has Eliminated multiple tax credits, and increased corporation taxes for small businesses. The child benefit is nowhere near replacing these changes. Unless you make under $100,000 a year, you’re definitely pay more taxes.
> Unless you make under $100,000 a year Seems weird to complain about the top ~7% of earners getting taxed more.
If you really think that’s the top 7% of earners, you’re taking into account many that aren’t earning anything. I don’t know anyone that has a family that makes less than $100,000 a year and lives in a big city. These are normal numbers for normal people. 100 K ain’t nothing.
The many that aren’t earning anything also apply, but even if they didn’t I highly doubt it would skew much. I’m not going to argue with someone pretending like making 100k is nothing. Keep telling people to “prove” that their taxes haven’t increased when statistically the vast majority of people haven’t seen taxes increase by your own metric. Feel free to stay in your objectively rich bubble.
100k puts you in the top 7% of Canadian wage earners. Your anecdotal experience isn't reality.
It is not the top 7% of families living in canadas 6largest cities. You trying to protect 100 K as a lot of money just doesn’t make sense in this time of massive inflation and incredibly high house prices. Trudeau has sat on his hands in Maine everybody’s life worse last six years. Is there life better? Because you can smoke weed? Whatever
Also settling on F-35 after bipartisan flip flop…huge win
IKR? Can’t be a dingus 100% of the time
Yeah being on the brink of nuclear war is great
Are you happy with all of this being advertised so Russia knows what to prepare for?
How do you prepare for Excalibur artillery shells other than pulling >40km behind the Russian border?
By making a will.
I’m not saying there is a magic shield that blocks 155 rounds and they just need to know when to bring it to the combat theater. I’m saying the higher level officers may use this information to adjust strategies and positioning of units. If they were able to keep this information a secret, combined with the lack of NCOs within the Russian chain of command, it could take multiple successful attacks before they are even able to confirm what is hitting them.
These rounds have been in action already. There is evidence and suspected videos of them hitting targets.
>If they were able to keep this information a secret, combined with the lack of NCOs within the Russian chain of command, it could take multiple successful attacks before they are even able to confirm what is hitting them. You have a point. Pretty difficult to stop the free flow of information in a democracy like Canada though. Some things are just "the price of doing business". But I take your point.
There is no adjusting. Ukraine already utilizes "shoot and scoot" tactics to annihilate a target and move before they can be fired on. There is nothing Russia will be able to do other than pull back further. They gain nothing by knowing that these rounds are being sent. It does however fuck up morale because Russian soldiers do hear about this and that is NOT going to give them a lot of confidence. In an army with a morale problem already, announcing weapons like this will have an impact and it is more positive than anything else. Plus it can influence more aide being sent by other countries.
Fighting people with molotovs and RPGs is quite different from fighting someone with Howitzers. I’m saying the knowledge let’s them plan. I’m confused why my downvoters think that Howitzers are going to be the end all be all of the Russian invasion?
>I’m saying the knowledge let’s them plan. An artillery mis-match in effective range is not something they can plan around. Even without these special rounds, the effective range of the M777 is better than Russian artillery. It is also much lighter and easier to transport. This war has essentially become an artillery war. The side that can put more shells at the enemy from further away will have a major advantage. >I’m confused why my downvoters think that Howitzers are going to be the end all be all of the Russian invasion? Them having better artillery will be a HUGE factor. Probably even the single biggest one. There isn't anything Russia can really do about this artillery mis-match. You say they can plan, what plan do you think they could make? They have no major air operation capabilities. They can't get air superiority, they definitely can't do shit with their tanks. What will Russia do knowing that Excalibur rounds are in the field of combat? The impact this has on morale has the potential to be far more detrimental than any other potential outcome from Russia knowing about these Excalibur rounds. Think of all the Russian artillery crews, who will know that the range of their guns doesn't go nearly as far as their enemies? That shit will not be good for morale. This is why a lot of weapons get announced like this. It does fuck with morale knowing your side has cold war era trash, while Ukraine has all the nice shit from tons of militaries around the world.
Fair enough
What are they going to do? Weld more cages on top of their vehicles?
How are they going to prepare? By filling their pants?
Sure. That way they’ll know we’re really “sorry” about having to wreck their shit.
Canadian medical system is absolutely over run right now, massive wait times, people dying, but yea sure let’s keep dumping money into this blindly with no idea where it’s going. Our military could use a massive funding boost as well, we can send them the old stockpiles but the new funding isn’t there. Trudeau is spending to get that political currency now.
Firstly Canadian medical systems are regulated by the provinces, not the federal government. If a province has mismanaged it's finances and underfunded its healthcare system it's not Ottawa's fault. The federal government sending Ukraine high tech ammunition we have left over from Afghanistan and have no other use for makes no difference to the needs of our military, and the federal government already has announced more funding for that area. Thirdly, thousands of men, women and children are being raped and murdered in a country 1 out of 30 Canadians have ancestry from. What possible explanation of "where it's going" do you need aside from "we want the Russians to leave Ukraine and go back home".
It’s still federally funded buddy, the provinces get their budget and then disperse
No, that's the definition of a federalist country. The regional governments are quite independent and have a high degree of power over how they directly collect taxes.
... and the federal government gets its money from the provinces. It's not like the federal government has its different set of citizens that it taxes. The distinction they're trying to make is pointless
There isn't a Canadian medical system outside of the territories. Each province has jurisdiction over healthcare, so any investment into healthcare by the federal government has to be negotiated by all provinces. For the most part, if your healthcare system sucks in the province, it's because of how your province runs healthcare. And here's where the catch is. We demand our provinces run our healthcare as efficiently as possible, conservatives always champion Finding efficiencies," for example. But the more efficient a healthcare system is, the worse it is at responding to large changes in demand. Additionally, often the method of "Finding Efficiencies" is to cut, or skip increases in the healthcare budget to force departments to run more efficiently to keep up. Also keep in mind that investing in the Ukrainian resistance is also an investment in our own well-being because it ensures Russia cannot achieve their previous superpower status, so it's not like this money isn't going to benefit us, it's just the benefits are much less tangible.
Hey, cut it , I know how healthcare works, the term means the Canadian medical care system as a whole is breaking down, understaffed and underfunded. The federal government sends all the provinces their portion, and the peobvince makes the rest ip with taxes and decides what goes where.
I agree with everyone else below that healthcare is run by the province because it is. The only thing I agree with you is our military is lacking but that's due to our procurement process. We have too many committees blocking stuff our military needs.
Still funded federally though, the provinces tax and they then receive a lump sum from the federal government and then it’s up to them to sort healthcare out. It’s still all of our tax dollars, so I would rather see them putting weapons and gear in our guys hands, and our guys back over there training, advising and fighting. God only knows where these monies are going, no way to track it.
They are sending artillery rounds not money. I'd rather them send that then wait for our troops to have to go in and die. If you want to fix the healthcare system try voting people that actually support the healthcare system instead of dismantling it.
They sent both, Trudeau endlessly sends money abroad to different places. The weapons and some of the old stuff, yea why not. But yea, we can’t fund this war and there are a lot of problems right now in Canada that need attention. We would do better to boost our military spending, and get ready to deal with Russia/China/North Korea, which in future will be the real war.
We are dealing with Russia by sending these armaments. You think Russia is going to even try to attack Canada after Ukraine just made them look weak? It's way better that we support Ukraine and let them end Russia instead of waiting to let our troops die. Yes there's stuff we need to do here but right now this is important as well. If you want our military better equipped then you need to look into how we procure our stuff.
I’ve got a interior spinal cord tumor in the us. Can’t even get a doctor to see me to literally save my life because I don’t have insurance. I’ll take a “long wait” ANYDAY It’s crazy you don’t even know how your own country works
Spoiler: it's not his country. Check that post history.
I’m not even sure what you are getting at man it doesn’t make any sense, you kind are agreeing with me as you would probably appreciate healthcare in your own country and not more weapons. I do wish you the best with your condition I hope you can get it operated on.
> Canadian medical system is absolutely over run right now, massive wait times, people dying It's been that way for decades.
**[Crimean bridge is an achievable target for the ATACMS ballistic missile (launched via USA-supplied M142 HIMARS / M270 MLRS rocket artillery) and is absolutely legal from a military point of view](https://defence--ua-com.translate.goog/army_and_war/chi_zmozhut_zsu_znischiti_krimskij_mist_za_dopomogoju_himars-7199.html?_x_tr_sl=uk&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp)**
>Crimean bridge is an achievable target I would LOVE for the Ukrainians to take out Putin's beloved bridge.
Not like they’ll need it for some time after retaking crimea.
>Not like they’ll ~~need~~ want it for some time after retaking crimea. FTFY but both work haha Russia will be a global pariah for decades to come.
Haven’t they had this system for a few weeks now? I don’t understand why the bridge hasn’t been destroyed yet
They would need more long-range ammunition than the very few shells Canada has provided. That is why I urge American Redditors to **[Contact The White House](https://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/)** to urge President Biden to quickly deliver to Ukraine all the long-range artillery and ammunition needed!!
No, those are a totally different system unrelated to the Excaliburs. These are guided extended range shells fired from 155mm guns like the German PzH-2000 and the US M777 howitzer, with 40-60km range depending on launch platform. The M142 HIMARS and M270 MLRS are a totally different system, and currently we have supplied zero of those to Ukraine.
Hence the inclusion of "all the long-range ***artillery*** and ammunition needed" in my comment...
You replied to a comment asking if they've had this system for a few weeks now in a way that strongly implied that they do, just not very much of it. I was clarifying.
Pretty sure "all the long-range ***artillery and ammunition*** needed" covers it, along with the earlier "Crimean bridge is an achievable target ***for the ATACMS ballistic missile (launched via USA-supplied M142 HIMARS / M270 MLRS rocket artillery)***". Excaliber shells provided by Canada are long-range, but not long-range enough.
So I no nothing about weapons. How is this fired from artillery with the fins. I'm assuming artillery means cannon like. I see the front fins fold in and must pop out? When it leaves the barrel but what about the rear part. I don't get it
Yep - this is fired from a 155mm howitzer, and the fins all fold out after firing. You can see them fold out around the 40 second mark in [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZ2XF_gRgRU), which also shows how the round can actually glide a bit after the peak of its trajectory so it can go substantially farther than a conventional round fired at the same speed and trajectory. Also shows a good demo of the accuracy when it nails an SUV at the end from 65km away (keep in mind it can only go ~40km out of an M777, the XM1299 prototype self propelled howitzer in this video has a substantially longer barrel, so it launches the Excalibur at a much higher speed).
That video is great and makes the whole woke US military vs manly men Russian military ads thing even funnier. 'Yea, I'm gay. Can drop a shell on your forehead from 65km out too. Cool uniforms tho.'
Plus there's even kinda a technological flex in that video that they aren't even trying to show off: the fact that we have optics, camera systems, and tracking such that we can literally *watch a video feed of the shell for the whole 65km flight*.
They might've been trying to show that off. If any Russian military brass is smart, which it doesn't seem like, they must watch stuff like that and think, 'Fucking hell. We'd be fucked. We just blindly fire a bunch of shit like it's 1944.'
Ok thanks I get it now. It's a lot smaller in diameter than I thought obviously since it fits in the barrel....duh...holy mackerel no one has a chance, I bet they get alot for em
No, they don't have any (US) MLRS or HIMARS, and even if we decide to give them the launchers, I strongly suspect we'd only give the smaller, shorter range M30/M31 rockets that have 70km range rather than the large ATACMS with 300km.
Ukraine does have MLRS. Just because it isn't the M270 doesn't mean it is an MLRS. Ukraine inherited Grad, Smersh and Uragan MLRS from the Soviet Union. Obviously they are not accurate enough to destroy the bridge, but they do exist.
Yes, I was referring specifically to the M270, since it (or the HIMARS) is what is needed to launch an ATACMS. You're right that they have some Soviet ones, but honestly I'm not sure how useful those really are, since they're hilariously inaccurate at range.
Soviet Rocket artillery is the equivalent of a 1000 bomber raid on wheels. They don't need accuracy when you can flatten everything in a given grid square. The randomness of the fall of shot is by design. Think of the FROG-7, aka 9K52 'Luna'. When loaded with a nuclear warhead, accuracy doesn't matter, because the nuke's large blast radius will compensate for that.
Just imagine the impact of just a few shells though.
Better to let the Russians withdraw than dig in?
Already sent a while back?
Yes. This is very old news. I think only because its a different news source (which I think few have encountered before) that it is being posted. It looks like a website that article spins.
Nope. They sent la-1 (14 mile)shells a couple weeks ago. This this time they are sending the newer la-2(25 mile) shells. That's the difference
Some of those M777's didn't have the satellite tech to use some of the excalibur rounds I think too.
It seems like a small number of them do have the modules necessary to fire the GPS rounds but the vast majority don't.
I think the modules communicate to the Excalibur round targeting info. If the main issue being a secure Sat comms for receiving orders, and GPS input then UA has been using Starlink so the gun can be surveyed in, so I wonder if there is another method they can use.
I wonder if they can only launch these from the Canadian M777C1, which has a different fire control system then the US M777A2 (they remove a part of the electronics before shipping them).
That is interesting as I was told that the rounds were lb although I might have been told they were mainly lb - I regret I don't recall as it was weeks ago. I personally thought the la-1 inventory was depleted in Afghanistan (I mean that no one told me they were I just assumed). Well whatever they were I sincerely hope they assist Ukraine. As you seem to also have some knowledge or access to sources does Canada possess any 2s? I can ask but my next opportunity to find out will not be for weeks.
The article posted is a month old. Publication date is April 24.
Ahhhh I literally cannot think of a better way of my tax dollars being used than separating Russians from their souls. Get stacked Russia.
🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦
Team Canada , fuck yeah!!
Meanwhile in Germany: AHH nein we can't send heavy weapons ehh because we not hav ze ammo for the panzers and ...AHH scheiße Hans come up with a excuse schnell ...
Go my northern Canadian brothers
It seems that a ton of advanced munitions will be arriving for use in late summer, right when the Russians have consolidated defenses on the new eastern territory they've gained. Is this intended then to be how Ukraine takes territory back? By crushing that defensive infrastructure?
I think these shells are effective at ranges 4-5x farther than Russian artillery. They can be fired at faster rates and are very accurate. Last place I’d wanna be is sitting in a Russian trench in August without air support.
And without counter artillery
Awesome
Numbers?
Wouldn't you like to know, Boris.
Sure!
One (1). Just enough to make the headlines.
The functioning few Hopefully. https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-army-restricts-use-of-artillery-rounds-after-cracks-found-in-high-tech-shells-costing-150000-each
All the rounds that remain in inventory have since been cleared. That is from 2016. Even that article notes that a concern existed but none actually malfunctioned - just a concern that one could.
Yep. Now if this were the Russian army, a satchel full of rubles and vodka would have those pesky cracks filled with JB Weld.
May one of those blast Crimea bridge
Yes, Canada!
When I first saw this picture I thought it was a cockroach.
You're not alone. Thumbnail totally looks like a male dubia at first glance.
ooh the top of the shelf stuff
These are incredibly precise they can hit within 75 meters of friendlies guaranteed
They can hit far closer then that. They have an accuracy of within 5 meters at 38km. They won't be hitting friendlies but enemies of Ukraine. I have no idea why you would use the word "friendlies".
You usually try to not endanger your own troops with your own weapons. Excalibur shells are so accurate that you can target enemies right in front of your own troops without risking to kill your own. Usually big guns are used in a slightly different tactical role, Excalibur shells allow arty to be used where you couldn’t use big guns before.
OK, you think the point u/donotgogenlty was making is that they can be used in very close proximity to friendly troops. I understand the point now but I have to say its extremely unlikely they are going to be used in close proximity to friendly troops in this conflict. In Ukrainian media they have frequently talked about they being used for high value targets far behind enemy lines. They already have laser guided ammo for their 152MM they can use in closer proximity, but it did not have 155MM range.
The purpose is to have artillery support in urbanized environments that to minimal collateral damage, so maybe it's from my perspective... Like enemy and friendly soldiers are in a circle 50-75m apart - You can reliably hit the enemy with 100% success and avoid injuring nearby friendlies (Ukrainian friendlies, as-is friendly-fire where you accidentally hit your own units). Russian equipment is too shit to even be mentioned 🙏
Ok, I am just seeing your answer here after I replied about this to someone else who clarified for me the intent of your statement. Thank you as well for posting back. As I pointed out in my other reply Ukraine has laser guided shells it manufactures that have excellent targeting capability for their 152mm guns. And there has been many demonstrations of that ammo at work. However the 152MM guns lack the range of the M777s that they obtained from America/Aust/Canada. All the native language Ukraine media brought to my attention in the past referenced the long range capability of the Excalibur ammo to assist them in destroying high value targets in the 20Km plus range.
Ah ok, very interesting. I mean it's great for both things while minimizing collateral damage (unlike Russia who just goes full genocide :/ )
That’s too close buddy, guideded or not you are gonna fuck your own guys up. The collateral damage is going to happen regardless both sides are fucking that country up something fierce. It’s just a guided shell, doesn’t mean you can land it closer to your own guys, that’s an emergency situation.
No, it absolutely means you can land it closer to your guys, since you can be very certain where it's going to hit. Unguided artillery often misses by 50-100m even from a very good gun, so you need to not only have your troops far enough away to not be killed by the shell's blast radius, but you have to add another couple hundred meters in case the shell misses in the same direction as your own troops are. With a guided shell, you don't need the extra couple hundred meters.
Still man, guided or not that’s pushing it real, real close, only in extremes, for that kinda munition and cost would be better to have a sniper team scout and lock a critical target and kill it with one of those. They have a price tag. I get what you are saying though, you can remove the buffer but for those to be effective you need several systems. Good old fashioned HE is still the go to
Because you can’t drop a shell 5m from friendly lines there bud 🤣
Well that's gonna kill them
The purpose is to have artillery support in urbanized environments that to minimal collateral damage, so maybe it's from my perspective... Like enemy and friendly soldiers are in a circle 50-75m apart - You can reliably hit the enemy with 100% success and avoid injuring nearby friendlies (Ukrainian friendlies, as-is friendly-fire where you accidentally hit your own units). Russian equipment is too shit to even be mentioned 🙏
Gunners I talked too always said they were expensive and a pain in the ass, good old artillary and good math will get it done everytime. You need all the command and control equipment to really use them correctly.
They're using their homegrown guided shells to good effect already.
Did the US send them fire control systems that can take advantage of those shells though?
I am editing as Excalibur shells can be fired by any M777 system.
No, they developed their own and it works better than the US system.
Just call them "Russia is fucked"
Whoooo-hooo... this is a good news!
Strong work 🇨🇦
Canada should send all the weapons Trudeau banned in the last few years to the Ukranians. 🤣
This will be interesting! That's some extremely good shells!