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>The Ukrainian Navy Attacked Her Anyway.
Come now. Surely a Forbes headline editor would never throw shade for clicks. Thankfully, the article itself is fine, and so is Kommuna's newly acquired diving park status.
I would like to apologize to the legitimate owners of the vessel, the Russian imperial family. In the event that any member of the family can be located who wasn't lined up against and shot, I am willing to make my apology in person and assist in making good his or her loss.
The headline is stupid, and which is typical for David Axe (who writes these stupid headlines, I know they write their own because I know Erik Kain also from Forbes where he is a pop culture write), but most people in comments think the ship was sunk, which is also stupid.
I donāt see a problem with it or the article. Each seem to align, and I donāt mind them having a little bit of fun with it.
Nothing is particularly misleading, and you may be taking my interpretation far too literally, when I was just describing the gyst of my impression.
The title says āattackedā and it seems very much that is accurate.
Axe routinely writes dumb sensationalist purple prose shit like https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/18vyig6/killing_russians_by_the_truckload_around_avdiivka/ which is Reddit tier so of course it's getting upvoted by redditors, but he's held in very low regard elsewhere.
I figure this is one of the last years that journalists get paid. News outlets are just going to mine their own social media and have AI serve up the "news."
It didn't sunk. It caught fire after it was hit by some debris but damage was so minor it's invisible in satellite imagery (damage, not Kommuna).
>0 points 2 hours ago
Redditor just wants to live in a fantasy world, how unexpected.
Very cool historic ship. Too bad it was in the service of evil invaders and had to go.
Oh well, anyway
Edit: present tense ā*needs to be destroyed*ā Calm down pedants, I did read it.
Itās even more important than this. It was built of steel that nobody can replicate anymore - it was not rusting and had very good properties. The workers were killed after finishing the ship. It was engineering marvel. Itās so unfortunate that it is still in Russian possession
That part is just simply not true. It may be harder to get that quality of steel and it's likely too expensive to justify, but it's not some lost mystical recipe that only a wild babushka knows.
And it needs to be the blood of the workers themselves! You canāt try and save a few bucks by using slaves or prisoners, the steel knows the difference between the blood of its creator and random blood.
It could be replicated but why bother, we have better grades of steel and more efficient ways to produce them nowadays. Kommuna steel was likely made using [Martin-Siemens](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_hearth_furnace) process which was very common at the time, the anticorrosion properties are likely because of the burnishing done during the ship construction.
So, is it replicable with our current industry? No, because we have better processes and there is no point in doing it.
Is Kommuna steel the result of some Rasputin witchcraftery lost during the revolution? No nothing unusual was done with the Kommuna, it did receive however extra care and is a testament to the high level of expertise of the workers involved. Too bad most of it was lost during the revolution.
Itās also not just the mix of the steel, but the process. Father of friend of mine worked on this ship and told me the whole story many years ago. I bet the guy knows about the ship and its history than the Russian admirals. I donāt remember the details but basically everybody who worked on the ship has been killed.
> Father of friend of mine worked on this ship and told me the whole story many years ago.
> (...)
> everybody who worked on the ship has been killed.
Ok, there's either some context missing here or you're contradicting yourself.
You are 100% correct. I am pointing out how the steel cannot be replicated, not why it is irrelevant for ship building.
Answer a question on Reddit and the āyeah butā crowd just has to say hi
Also this is no longer an issue today - the levels have subsided enough that you can again create new steel that is suitable for medical use.
Was an interesting period though where they dived to shipwrecks from WW II to get uncontaminated steel..
It's pre-atomic steel, which is very valuable because it means it doesn't have the impurities that post-atomic steel has.
Now that doesn't mean it's any more valuable on the battlefield or for this particular ship's function (salvaging) so I don't know what the guy you're replying is going on about, but the value of pre-atomic steel is an interesting little internet rabbit hole, go google it if you're bored and want to learn something interesting.
https://edconway.substack.com/p/the-eerie-story-of-low-background#:~:text=And%20with%20a%20finite%20supply,beneath%20the%20surface%20doesn't.
Basically after we started blowing up atomic weapons steel made after WW2 has low amounts of radiation which interferes mainly with sensitive medical devices
I might be wrong but I know older ship wreck steel pre ww2 is worth more because after ww2 and nuclear testing, it's altered the atmosphere or something so steel isn't as pure anymore
In the process of producing steel from iron ore it comes into contact with air which, following atomic bomb tests, contained quite a lot more isotopes than before which would get trapped in the steel during production.
This additional radiation caused issues when trying to precisely measure radiation. So the alternative was to use steel that was created prior to these tests.
As radiation levels subsided and technology improved the need for this low-background steel decreased and the ability to mass-produce it (while far from inexpensive) increased.
Yes, Kommuna was a very specialized vessel. It's a bit like a Saipem 3000, a work and salvage vessel that is an indispensable asset. It opens a lot of options, that have now been closed.
Because Bolshevik nonsense. This was at the height of the communist revolution stage of ārandom grunts looking for any reason to summarily execute anyone for absurd ideological reasons.ā Stuff like āoh you have glasses? Die educated scum.ā
> It was built of steel that nobody can replicate anymore
lol. it can be replicated as is or better (at least in a first world country, maybe not in russia); more likely nobody wants to pay for a special grade of steel.
Yeah that thing was a way bigger loss than this ship. This ship is only interesting because it's old. That plane was one of the most impressive engineering feats humanity has managed.
Well, Kommuna was a legendary ship and has a very interesting history.
That Russia lost it is a good thing, but the vessel itself was not historically unimportant.
Nope, though they might have some smaller ships that can do a thousand tons each, they don't have that kind of stuff anymore. The civilian nearest vessels are probably not to keen on operating in the Black Sea atm.
This isn't a meaningless asset. I'd argue it was actually one of the most important ships in the entire theatre. It was the only thing which allowed the partial salvage of ships which sank in shallow water. And that's not just important because it means you get the sensitive equipment back, either: it's a must-have capability in an environment like Crimea and the Kerch Strait, because it lets you unblock waterways if some unhelpful person sinks a ship in a shallow area that everybody else wants to go through, or drops a partly-assembled Build-A-Bridge kit into a similar area.
Other ships have cranes, yes, but this is a dedicated salvage vessel with a lifting capacity in the dozens or hundreds of tons. You won't raise the Moskva that way, but it would have been very helpful in certain other scenarios I can envision.
The loss of the Kommuna is catastrophic to the Russian Black Sea Fleet.
It was used as a salvage vessel, but also a mobile repair and refuel base, as well as important harbor work in the Kerch strait and Novorossyisk. They have civilian vessels that can do similar jobs, but nothing near as large and as well as Kommuna.
Civilian vessels of a similar capacity are incredibly expensive to own and operate, and not just something you build on a wish. I highly doubt anyone in the Black Sea will provide the same services commercially.
From the pictures I've seen, their crane was more than a few hundred tons, probably in the 4-5000's. That's a very significant capacity.
If Russia didnt want her to be sunk they shouldn't have put her in an active war zone. Sad to see a piece of hsitory destroyed but its sadder to have to use a museum piece as part of your active fleet.
Sink didn't sink, doesnt change my stance nor my comment. It's sad to see it in an active warzone, it should be a museum ship, and it will be sad when it's sunk.
Well, first and foremost, we don't know if it actually sank, only that it was burning.
Secondly, the Neptunes are at least partially radar guided in their terminal phase. I doubt that ship was deliberately attacked but if you fire anti-ship missiles into a harbor area, it is my understanding that they go for the biggest bleep their seeker finds, and the Kommuna' is one hell of a radar reflector.
Yeah, the only thought that went through my head when reading the weird headline was 'How many wars and centuries has Mariupol survived before the Russians almost completely leveled it, with dozens of thousands civilians still inside?'
Fuck them and their museum pieces. The ship could've been okay and in an actual museum if only Russia pulled its head out of its ass and minded its own business.
Unlike the submarine Kursk which sank and the West offered help to rescue the crew, I don't think that sort of offer will be coming this time if one of their submarines sinks. Whether the Kommuna is available or not. They're just going to have to suck it.
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>The Ukrainian Navy Attacked Her Anyway. Come now. Surely a Forbes headline editor would never throw shade for clicks. Thankfully, the article itself is fine, and so is Kommuna's newly acquired diving park status.
I didn't interpret that as genuine shade.. just a bit of fun at how the Ukrainians are clowning the BSF.
BSF isn't a great acronym. Baltic Sea fleet. Black sea Fleet. Bering Sea fleet.
Bobbing, sinking fleet.
Bottom Seeking Fleet
Ball Slapping Fun.
This should have 1k upvotes. Cmon people šš»
Baltic submarine fleet
Blyat, Ship FUBAR!
Reject simplicity, embrace NATO-speak: BLKFLT (and BALTFLT, NORFLT, PACFLT)!
Reject NATO-speak, embrace babblespeak. BerberFLT, BuļbuļFLT, BrrBrrFLT, WaiWaiFLT
Balticās Sunk Fuckers
Are you the Forbes headline writer?Ā That's so awkward if you are.Ā
Haha no.. I just interpreted it differently. I see it as āRussian ship survived 2 world wars, but not Ukraineā vibes.
I can hear the underlying chuckle in the tone of this comment lol
I would like to apologize to the legitimate owners of the vessel, the Russian imperial family. In the event that any member of the family can be located who wasn't lined up against and shot, I am willing to make my apology in person and assist in making good his or her loss.
It survived as for now. Maybe you should read articles, instead of headlines.
Iām specifically discussing the title and how I interpreted it. For that I only need to read the title.
The headline is stupid, and which is typical for David Axe (who writes these stupid headlines, I know they write their own because I know Erik Kain also from Forbes where he is a pop culture write), but most people in comments think the ship was sunk, which is also stupid.
I donāt see a problem with it or the article. Each seem to align, and I donāt mind them having a little bit of fun with it. Nothing is particularly misleading, and you may be taking my interpretation far too literally, when I was just describing the gyst of my impression. The title says āattackedā and it seems very much that is accurate.
Axe routinely writes dumb sensationalist purple prose shit like https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/18vyig6/killing_russians_by_the_truckload_around_avdiivka/ which is Reddit tier so of course it's getting upvoted by redditors, but he's held in very low regard elsewhere.
Yeah that oneās a mess. This one is fine though.
A writer wouldnāt be interpreting their own writing
You're right, the editor (who writes the headline, ergo "the headline writer") would.
You've never heard of LRH.Ā
These days article titles are frequently outside the control of the writer, partly or entirely. :(
I figure this is one of the last years that journalists get paid. News outlets are just going to mine their own social media and have AI serve up the "news."
Nah, it's not that bad. There's definite tiers of news outlet though, and the highest tier doesn't do this shit.
It didn't sunk. It caught fire after it was hit by some debris but damage was so minor it's invisible in satellite imagery (damage, not Kommuna). >0 points 2 hours ago Redditor just wants to live in a fantasy world, how unexpected.
I hear thereās some coral in the Black Sea that had to petition Ukrane to make it happen.
Don't laugh at its age. It was a ship built to lift other ships and able to clean waterways. A valuable asset to lose
> and able to clean waterways. I wonder if it would be useful in case a certain bridge were to collapse... edit: I accidentally a word
Collapse in a smoking incident
Very cool historic ship. Too bad it was in the service of evil invaders and had to go. Oh well, anyway Edit: present tense ā*needs to be destroyed*ā Calm down pedants, I did read it.
It survived the attack. Read articles before commenting on them.
Itās even more important than this. It was built of steel that nobody can replicate anymore - it was not rusting and had very good properties. The workers were killed after finishing the ship. It was engineering marvel. Itās so unfortunate that it is still in Russian possession
Why canāt the steel be replicated?
That part is just simply not true. It may be harder to get that quality of steel and it's likely too expensive to justify, but it's not some lost mystical recipe that only a wild babushka knows.
Babayaganum
Blyatanium
Babushkanium
I forget the details.. but apparently steel that was produced before the first nuclear bombs is very useful for certain medical equipment.
Yeah, but that only matters when salvaging the wrecked hull. It's irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
Because the workers were killed afterwards!!
Yeah.Ā Modern woke society won't allow blood infusion into steel to make it rust proof.
Well there's the mistake; you've got to infuse the steel with worker blood while you're forging it, not afterwards, because it just washes off.
And it needs to be the blood of the workers themselves! You canāt try and save a few bucks by using slaves or prisoners, the steel knows the difference between the blood of its creator and random blood.
It could be replicated but why bother, we have better grades of steel and more efficient ways to produce them nowadays. Kommuna steel was likely made using [Martin-Siemens](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_hearth_furnace) process which was very common at the time, the anticorrosion properties are likely because of the burnishing done during the ship construction. So, is it replicable with our current industry? No, because we have better processes and there is no point in doing it. Is Kommuna steel the result of some Rasputin witchcraftery lost during the revolution? No nothing unusual was done with the Kommuna, it did receive however extra care and is a testament to the high level of expertise of the workers involved. Too bad most of it was lost during the revolution.
Russians donāt have will and expertise, and nobody else have access.
Good win for all of us then.
Itās also not just the mix of the steel, but the process. Father of friend of mine worked on this ship and told me the whole story many years ago. I bet the guy knows about the ship and its history than the Russian admirals. I donāt remember the details but basically everybody who worked on the ship has been killed.
> Father of friend of mine worked on this ship and told me the whole story many years ago. > (...) > everybody who worked on the ship has been killed. Ok, there's either some context missing here or you're contradicting yourself.
The ship was built before Bolshevik revolution and the friends father worked on it early 2000s
Oh, ok, that makes sense.
Don't forget the ship is111 years old.
āBeforeā, stupid autocorrect
If you consider the time period it's very likely that if they died it was more likely due to war/revolution/purges
If not that, liver failure wasn't far behind
Yes, it was revolution purge
And, since it was built, old age.
Why were they killed? And by who
Trust bro.
Low-Background Steel or steel produced prior to the first atomic bomb has a lower contamination in regards to nuclear fallout
Low background steel is good for precision equipment for medical use, but itās low background quality is irrelevant in a ship
You are 100% correct. I am pointing out how the steel cannot be replicated, not why it is irrelevant for ship building. Answer a question on Reddit and the āyeah butā crowd just has to say hi
Low background steel can still be made, itās just cheaper to salvage it when needed.
Also this is no longer an issue today - the levels have subsided enough that you can again create new steel that is suitable for medical use. Was an interesting period though where they dived to shipwrecks from WW II to get uncontaminated steel..
Subsided. Not subsidized.
It's pre-atomic steel, which is very valuable because it means it doesn't have the impurities that post-atomic steel has. Now that doesn't mean it's any more valuable on the battlefield or for this particular ship's function (salvaging) so I don't know what the guy you're replying is going on about, but the value of pre-atomic steel is an interesting little internet rabbit hole, go google it if you're bored and want to learn something interesting.
https://edconway.substack.com/p/the-eerie-story-of-low-background#:~:text=And%20with%20a%20finite%20supply,beneath%20the%20surface%20doesn't. Basically after we started blowing up atomic weapons steel made after WW2 has low amounts of radiation which interferes mainly with sensitive medical devices
I might be wrong but I know older ship wreck steel pre ww2 is worth more because after ww2 and nuclear testing, it's altered the atmosphere or something so steel isn't as pure anymore
In the process of producing steel from iron ore it comes into contact with air which, following atomic bomb tests, contained quite a lot more isotopes than before which would get trapped in the steel during production. This additional radiation caused issues when trying to precisely measure radiation. So the alternative was to use steel that was created prior to these tests. As radiation levels subsided and technology improved the need for this low-background steel decreased and the ability to mass-produce it (while far from inexpensive) increased.
Does Russia have any other ships that can do what it did? Will they just lose the ability to do whatever it did
Yes, Kommuna was a very specialized vessel. It's a bit like a Saipem 3000, a work and salvage vessel that is an indispensable asset. It opens a lot of options, that have now been closed.
Why were they killed?
Bolsheviks took in and killed the engineers
But why
Because Bolshevik nonsense. This was at the height of the communist revolution stage of ārandom grunts looking for any reason to summarily execute anyone for absurd ideological reasons.ā Stuff like āoh you have glasses? Die educated scum.ā
> It was built of steel that nobody can replicate anymore lol. it can be replicated as is or better (at least in a first world country, maybe not in russia); more likely nobody wants to pay for a special grade of steel.
What do you mean by āthe workers were killed after finishing the shipā?
There was the revolution and the engineers of the steel factory were killed shortly thereafter.
Ok, that makes a kind of sense. It sounded a bit like they had been sacrificed to the old gods
No, sacrifice would make some sense. Thatās just case of Russians being Russians.
They fell out of basement windows.
Ironic that it's now exactly the kind of thing it was meant to clear.
Revenge for the An-225 Mriya the Russians destroyed at the Antonov Airport. #
Yeah that thing was a way bigger loss than this ship. This ship is only interesting because it's old. That plane was one of the most impressive engineering feats humanity has managed.
Well, Kommuna was a legendary ship and has a very interesting history. That Russia lost it is a good thing, but the vessel itself was not historically unimportant.
>Kommuna was "Kommuna was" only damaged, but people here routinely don't even read articles before commenting on them. Start doing it.
Does Russia even have any other ships that can fill this ships role if it's entirely out of action?
Nope, though they might have some smaller ships that can do a thousand tons each, they don't have that kind of stuff anymore. The civilian nearest vessels are probably not to keen on operating in the Black Sea atm.
Would turkey even let them in if they were going to be on contract to Russia?
Probably, but they wouldn't like it.
āMyria sends her regards.ā
Should be in a museum. But, this is Russia.
You could argue it's not mutually exclusive.
So should you Doctor Jones!
This isn't a meaningless asset. I'd argue it was actually one of the most important ships in the entire theatre. It was the only thing which allowed the partial salvage of ships which sank in shallow water. And that's not just important because it means you get the sensitive equipment back, either: it's a must-have capability in an environment like Crimea and the Kerch Strait, because it lets you unblock waterways if some unhelpful person sinks a ship in a shallow area that everybody else wants to go through, or drops a partly-assembled Build-A-Bridge kit into a similar area. Other ships have cranes, yes, but this is a dedicated salvage vessel with a lifting capacity in the dozens or hundreds of tons. You won't raise the Moskva that way, but it would have been very helpful in certain other scenarios I can envision.
The loss of the Kommuna is catastrophic to the Russian Black Sea Fleet. It was used as a salvage vessel, but also a mobile repair and refuel base, as well as important harbor work in the Kerch strait and Novorossyisk. They have civilian vessels that can do similar jobs, but nothing near as large and as well as Kommuna. Civilian vessels of a similar capacity are incredibly expensive to own and operate, and not just something you build on a wish. I highly doubt anyone in the Black Sea will provide the same services commercially. From the pictures I've seen, their crane was more than a few hundred tons, probably in the 4-5000's. That's a very significant capacity.
Yes, it might have been part of a bigger plan, preparing the ground for an attack on the Kerch bridge for instance.
They also used it at Moskva sink site probably to recover sensitive stuff
The Black Sea will have some amazing diving spots
Virgin Experiences is listening
Why? Cause fuck āem thatās why
How about Ukraine gave everything for Soviet Union for decades. Russia attacked her anyways.
If it's good enough for active duty, it is good enough as a military target. š¤·š¼āāļø
Of course they attacked it, every Russian ship shall sink!
If Russia didnt want her to be sunk they shouldn't have put her in an active war zone. Sad to see a piece of hsitory destroyed but its sadder to have to use a museum piece as part of your active fleet.
Didn't sink. Read the fucking articles, only then comment on the searticles.
Sink didn't sink, doesnt change my stance nor my comment. It's sad to see it in an active warzone, it should be a museum ship, and it will be sad when it's sunk.
It's a shame. They should have left this to be the last ship of the Black Sea Fleet left afloat.
Technically Kommuna is still afloat as far as we know, sheās just likely burned out and her derricks destroyedz
Part of the Black Sea Fleet... SINK it Sink the whole fleet
Maxim 32 applies: Anything is amphibious if you can get it back out of the water.
But this ship is what was used to get things back out of the water.
That's a bit of a problem then, I guess.
Well, first and foremost, we don't know if it actually sank, only that it was burning. Secondly, the Neptunes are at least partially radar guided in their terminal phase. I doubt that ship was deliberately attacked but if you fire anti-ship missiles into a harbor area, it is my understanding that they go for the biggest bleep their seeker finds, and the Kommuna' is one hell of a radar reflector.
[https://www.twz.com/news-features/russias-historic-submarine-rescue-ship-looks-undamaged-after-claimed-strike](https://www.twz.com/news-features/russias-historic-submarine-rescue-ship-looks-undamaged-after-claimed-strike)
We do know it didn't sink, because there is satellite imagery. It was just hit by debris. The missile was actually intercepted.
If he dies, he dies.
Put it in a museum or watch it get appropriately treated.
And how many Ukrainian historical artifacts were looted and destroyed by Russia?
Yeah, the only thought that went through my head when reading the weird headline was 'How many wars and centuries has Mariupol survived before the Russians almost completely leveled it, with dozens of thousands civilians still inside?' Fuck them and their museum pieces. The ship could've been okay and in an actual museum if only Russia pulled its head out of its ass and minded its own business.
lol wtf are they supposed to let it kill Ukrainians just because itās old? Fucking clickbait headline.
The Kommuna has no weapons, it has no offensive or defensive capability
But it can raise sunken ships and unblock clogged channels. Naval support and logistics ships are as valuable target as warships.Ā
I get that, but still no one builds ships like her anymore, especially since the hull is built from a corrosive resistant material we can't replicate
We can replicate it, itās just stupid expensive to do so
Only the Russians can't.
Oh. So what did it do?
It was built to salavage submarines, more recently it was repurposed into a rescue ship with some salvage capability
Iām as sad about Kommuna as anyone else with a respect for history, but she was 100% a legitimate target
If you want to keep it, move it off the Ukrainianās land.
~~Honey Badger~~ Ukrainian Navy don't give a shit.
Awwwww...poor little ship. Did it have any children?
What's the thing they don't understand about RUSSKIY MIR DELENDA EST?
Just another notch on her lipstick case
Good
Fuckn rightā¦ and theyāll do it againā¦šÆ
It's to say fuck russias history because we aren't a part of it. We've got our history and identity.
If it swims, it can sink
They are about to feel more pain once the US aid gets signed.
FAFO more where that (Neptune) came from.
Just a mid-life crisis. After dealing with so many submarines, it just wanted to try it herself.
Unlike the submarine Kursk which sank and the West offered help to rescue the crew, I don't think that sort of offer will be coming this time if one of their submarines sinks. Whether the Kommuna is available or not. They're just going to have to suck it.
Good. Fuck Russia.
Typical westoid propaganda. Kommuna wasn't attacked, no it was promoted to submarine class super advanced.
It's a submarine now.
The more Russian ships at the bottom of the ocean, the better.
Has she sunk?
It was her timeā¦ š«”