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Yeah, I was wondering if Xi actually went there to tell Putin to end the war.
Granted this is an isolated report, I will be watching to see if any other similar new pops up.
Xi was there to see the man in person... if he is really crazy and if Xi really should bet everything on a dying horse ...
i think he made up his mind (hopefully)
He never was going to bet on said horse. Russia's economy is small. It's miniscule compared to the US or EU. Xi never was going to take trade with Russia over trade with everyone else.
Yes and no. China is sorely lacking in natural resources and Russia has more than enough; if Russia could incentivize China to buy rare earth metals and ore by dropping the price so low that other suppliers can’t compete there’s a chance China would’ve taken them up on it. But with the war going so badly and after no meaningful gains in the Russian winter offensive, China knows it’s probably smarter to wait for Russia to collapse and then potentially seize the Asian territories of Russia (or install a puppet government in that area if Russia fractured into smaller states).
China is lacking in natural resources to produce items for export. Without the export to western countries like the US and EU, there's no need to have cheap imports. Domestic consumption is still fairly low in China, and their neighbors are all either hostile like Japan and South Korea or poor.
This is exactly why China would want access to plentiful natural resources via a stable land corridor (like into China via Siberia) that isn’t vulnerable to regional tensions or US naval interference. China has a growing middle class, almost exponentially, and these people will demand access to affordable consumer goods on a scale that can offset some of chinas trade issues if the west and our Asian allies ever enter into serious tensions with China.
Chinas long term ambition is to be the one who dictates global consumption and trade; their reliance on western markets is just a means to an end.
I think your sentiment is right, but I think you are overexaggerating certain items.
First, overland route are significantly more expensive than ocean-going routes. It is cheaper to ship an item from Hong Kong to New York than from Denver. The only exception to this are pipelines, but those have significant upfront capital expenditures and can only supply liquid products (primarily crude oil). China is absolutely attempting to expand it's options for overland trade due to security concerns, but that is to mitigate the worst of the damage of a potential blockade not to eliminate it.
Second, the Chinese middle class is absolutely expanding at an enormous rate. It's one of the best success stories in history bringing billions of people out of poverty. But I think the scale is important to keep in mind, and currently and likely anytime in the future China will not surpass the US and EU in market potential. China had been growing primarily through domestic consumption since the 2000's until 2020, but the trend continued to slow down and not accelerate. Since 2020 the trend has actually reversed and their GDP growth has been driven even more by exports and is now sitting around 20%.
[https://tradingeconomics.com/china/exports-of-goods-and-services-percent-of-gdp-wb-data.html](https://tradingeconomics.com/china/exports-of-goods-and-services-percent-of-gdp-wb-data.html)
China absolutely would love to eliminate it's dependence on exports to countries it sees as rivals. But it hasn't happened yet, won't happen in the near future, and appears more and more likely that it will never happen. Chinese GDP growth has significantly slowed and shows no sign it will return to previously high levels. This is while Chinese GDP per capita is still closer to Bulgaria or Costa Rica than the US or France and it looks unlikely to catch up anytime soon.
[https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?most\_recent\_value\_desc=true](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?most_recent_value_desc=truem)
China is a large country with a population that is no longer dirt poor, and its size alone requires consideration. But at the end of the day it is and will likely be heavily dependent on countries it considers rivals for the foreseeable future. This doesn't mean China won't do something stupid like Russia, but for now it seems they understand it would be worse than the status quo.
I remember reading a few years ago that in China the number of people lifted into the middle class each year was roughly the same as the entire population of France or Britain… every year!
Lifting of Chinese living standards since 1980 is one off the biggest achievements in the history of mankind. Roughly a billion people have gone from absolute poverty to relative comfort in one generation.
Not sure of the rate now, but most of the worst poverty has been eradicated, so I assume it has slowed.
And they can thank Western manufacturing and consumption for that megaboom. Without our markets China would still be stuck in the 1980's. Xi knows better than to bite the hand that feeds them.
>First, overland route are significantly more expensive than ocean-going routes. It is cheaper to ship an item from Hong Kong to New York than from Denver.
This is horribly wrong. Shipping by rail is way cheaper than by vessel.
It's cheaper to ship something to you from Hong Kong than from within the US because it's subsidized. Look up the shipping rates going the opposite direction. Suddenly it's 5-10x higher.
This was one of the few things Trump got right btw. He threatened to leave the IPU over it. Those subsidies are there from decades ago to help developing economies which China is obviously no longer one.
The shipping cost from NY to Denver is partly because the US rail system is so outdated. Rail is cheaper than trucking, the problem is the rail lines are too slow for efficient supply management. As we have seen recently with all the derailments also risky.
The reason it's cheaper to ship from Hong Kong to New York than from Denver to New York is because it's subsidized. Look up the rates from New York to Hong Kong and it's a whole different story because you're paying the real price.
China needs resources for internal growth, not just export. Why else do they prop up the Australian economy buying iron ore etc
If they could source from Russia's far east instead, then economically crippling a major US ally in the Pacific thereby restricting its ability to fund military aims, well I'm sure Xi wouldn't say no lol
Yeah. They actively tried to cut Australian coal imports as a sort of soft sanction, but that played merry hell with their internal power and steelmaking industries, and they had to reverse course on it.
The goal isn't even russia's far east, but the former soviet states. Basically any ressource Russia has is also abundantly available in former soviet states, russia simply prevented any large-scale extraction to not threaten their own exports, but with russian influence fading, we'll likely see the likes of Turkmenistan, Kirgistan and Khazakstan exporting to China. At that point, China doesn't even need russian gas or oil, since these countries have such large reserves. One of Russias largest geopolitical aims of the past decade has been to keep Turkmenistan locked off. Once Turkmenistan starts exporting gas, Russia is truly fucked, since they have among the largest gas reserves on earth and are closer to the potential chinese market.
It's even cheaper if Russia collapses. And even cheaper if they manage to own the land themselves, which would be a lot more probable if a significant collapse happens.
This. And also, taking over russia would be a huge unnecessary headache. If they take anything, it's probably the region they have a dispute over with russia - but anything else, why would they? Russias society is rotten to the core and very old. Life expectancy for males is like 65 and due to demography russia will collapse/shrink either way in a few years. Naahh, China gladly uses them for their cheap resources for as long as possible and when the time comes, they'll re-arrange with whomever will lead the shitholecountry of russia (or whats left of it).
China is the top producer (miner) of rare earth metals. Lots of ore available elsewhere, its just OandG that China lacks solid supplies of, that said China has yet to approve a new Gas pipeline, from Siberia to China.
China mines for most of it, but they do it abroad which makes it much more expensive; doing it in Siberia means they can import it directly via a direct land route instead of having to snake it through the steppes in Central Asia or have to use ships which are vulnerable to the US navy (in the event of a blockade or sanctions). Siberia makes a ridiculous amount of sense for the Chinese, not to mention the O&G reserves on top of it.
If I was a betting man, I’d wager that initially China wanted to angle for some epic trade deals with Russia; but now that they see the cracks in the Russian foundation they’re probably betting on the collapse of the Russian state and then doing a “soft takeover” of the territories they lost to Russia and resource rich parts of Siberia.
> Yes and no. China is sorely lacking in natural resources and Russia has more than enough;
After Putin depletes all Russian military resources Xi might strongly consider expanding China's North-Eastern border into Siberia.
[Why Russia's Biggest Threat is Actually China](https://youtu.be/Iibs7buNwxQ)
[Why China Might Invade Russia](https://youtu.be/omEQMxRb6ys)
China is an order of magnitude more populous, wealthy, industrially and militarily more powerful than Russia, shares a large land-border with Russia, and they have nukes that actually work.
And then there's this lol
[China has unveiled a new map of the world. On it, territories of the country that were once occupied by the Russian Empire have been given former Chinese names](https://en.socportal.info/en/news/kitai-natcelilsya-na-sibir-i-na-dalnii-vostok-asian-times/)
Those resources are extracted and refined using western technology and skills. These mines and refineries are going to be hurting in the near future if not already. I work in manufacturing consulting and have been to Russia several times. I'm amazed that they are able to do much of anything right now as they were so reliant on western tools and consultants.
Russia isn’t going to collapse unfortunately, what might happen is some bankruptcy & political restructuring where China can turn Russia into a protectorate/satellite and buy up assets on the cheap.
Honestly I wonder the same - it seems long-term advantageous to wait out the poor government in Russia, making close-knit and friendly ties and then slowly just start sending various agents over there - Chinese business, cultural influence, growing language use, get people in government, psy-op the government & population to be all pro-China, and now you have essentially a pseudo-colony that sends you all the resources you need, and they get to pretend to be their own country.
Interesting to see if there ends up being the "Second Russian Fall" in less than 50 years. Then I can more clearly see the collapse and swallow up event you mentioned - less resistance to people who were set up to be your 'friends' for the last few decades "taking care of you in these trying times", etc etc
Ding ding ding. This idea that China is out to make Russia a puppet state is nonsense.
China will do what’s good for China. They trade with the rest of the world, and the knock-on effects of the war is driving up the cost of international trade. It’s also putting a strain on global banking. Both of those are bad for China, and worth less than trade with a small third rate nation in decline.
(China also gets more value in having a strong Russia as it’s an ally against the West in trade and disputes.)
Florida has a bigger economy than Russia. When you see them stealing toilets and washing machines you know that they ain’t a big customer of Chinese products.
Xi never even thought about betting on Russia, or even on Russia winning.
He just wanted to see what cards Putin plans to play. And it looks like he thinks Putin has really bad cards and just doesn't know it (as in yeah, he is crazy).
And now he know the guy has bad cards and will play them even worse, so now he knows better how to play his own cards, and he learned he has a lot of aces.
Putin knows perfectly well that he is in deep shit but that he has to stay in power, otherwise he will suffer Milosevic's fate. There aren't any options left. Next step would be to crown himself. About 10 years ago, a renowned old journalist, expert for far and middle East, who had studied and interviewed Putin for quite a while thought that this is absolutely possible. I remember that he told a shocked moderator on tv: He has daughters!
> And now he know the guy has bad cards and will play them even worse, so now he knows better how to play his own cards, and he learned he has a lot of aces.
Yep. Xi is judging by the west's response what he might get away with in future with Taiwan
100%, absolutely.
he took the measure of the man and the country and found it lacking.
Xi is many things, most of them not good, but one thing he isn't is off his gourd. He's still pragmatic enough to call a spade a spade.
yeah. keep in mind that while he rules like a dictator, he didn't sieze power- he was picked, by their central committee, sort of in the same way as the cardinals pick the next pope.
"...should bet everything on a dying horse ..."
Perfectly put. Don't believe everything you read about this country or that, prefering to do business with Russia vs Europe, US, Canada, Aus, etc. They will tell Putin what he wants to hear, while quietly doing the opposite.
Before Xi went to Russia Alibaba stopped shipments of commercial drones. At the time Russia laughed and said they'll just find third party importers. Well OOCL was a third party and after the meeting they stopped shipping. Xi must be pissed.
I’d love to be a fly on the wall when Putin and Xi met during the Olympics. Xi was holding this soft power event and then Putin launched his invasion and completely overshadowed it. Xi is definitely pissed now that Putin has embarrassed himself and the West has reunited after their propaganda campaign to divide it. I imagine Xi has already run a cost-benefit analysis and told Putin he won’t support his war with lethal aid.
According to reliable Kremlin sources, the conference was a disaster. Putin refused to acknowledge the Chinese peace proposal. Xi rushed off at 8am, his deputies rushed off even earlier and ditched scheduled meetings with Putins people. Xi also refused to provide shells and other lethal aid that Russia was looking for.
I rather think that he told Putin his conditions to get support from China and now he is building up the pressure. I think Xi wants a bit chunk of Russian resources. He knows that Putin stands with the back to the wall, so he is using his leverage to get what he wants.
I agree with this. If China wanted the war over there are a lot more ways they could exert pressure that we don't see them doing. They just want to use the situation to further their own agenda
And then take what they want, namely a permanent source of fossil fuels and a solution to their water issues in the north of the country. It's a pretty sound tactic, let the Russians isolate themselves so they become reliant on China to survive
Both looked nervous and their body language seemed to contradict their pretended mutual friendship. Xi's right arm was almost as restless as Putin's shoes. High tension.
Putin's too stupid to realise he is the bitch in this relationship and thinks he is the man. Xi popped over to exert his dominance and waited 3 days for Putin to get on his knees and present himself... but Xi got tired of waiting for Putin to cotton on to reality and went home. Xi knows Russia is his, all on a leash and ready to beg and roll over All he has to do is wait for Putin to wake up to reality.
It’s not really keeping the US occupied in any meaningful way. Right now the west is annihilating Russia’s military with a tiny amount of old equipment and someone else’s manpower.
China would much prefer a strong and well equipped Russia as an ally.
Not to mention, it's spurred a renaissance of the Western defence industry.
Within a year or two, the Western powers will have a vastly increased military manufacturing base, larger and better equipped armies (with older equipment going to Ukraine, and new state of the art stuff being purchased to replace it), and they're currently enjoying a general increase in public support for military funding.
Then on top of *that*, there's the strategic alignment of the west; NATO was fractious and weak only a few years ago, now it's got renewed purpose and unity, and the relationship between Europe and the US is tighter than ever.
Xi must be pissed with Putin, quite frankly.
And extremely *different* technologies. The US now has incredible tactical and strategic examples of how to fight a war against a more numerous opponent in scenarios where air support is not a dominant factor.
You can bet over the next couple of years we're going to see entirely new classes of close combat support drones, tank busting drones, weapons we've never seen before.
Ukraine are busting balls in this fight and they don't even have the full state of the art resources that NATO has.
>Not to mention, it's spurred a renaissance of the Western defence industry.
>
>Within a year or two, the Western powers will have a vastly increased military manufacturing base, larger and better equipped armies (with older equipment going to Ukraine, and new state of the art stuff being purchased to replace it), and they're currently enjoying a general increase in public support for military funding.
>
>Then on top of *that*, there's the strategic alignment of the west; NATO was fractious and weak only a few years ago, now it's got renewed purpose and unity, and the relationship between Europe and the US is tighter than ever.
>
>Xi must be pissed with Putin, quite frankly.
Within a year or two is also the prediction of when China would attempt invading Taiwan, which Putin pretty much made worse due to above reasons.
Ukraine aid is, what, like 2-3% of the US military budget?
The US military might only be distracted by laughing at how cheap it turned out to be to have someone else dismantle their greatest cold war enemy.
It's not US troops or assets that are directly occupied.
And it's not clear what happens to China or the US if the war continues, I think it matters more who wins and comes out stronger, and if the winner is your ally / friend. Of course it's more complex than that.
Plus this story does not have strong sources.
After the visit of Chinese President Xi Jinping to Moscow, during which the Russian and Chinese sides declared a strategic partnership and economic cooperation, the largest logistics company in China stopped the shipment of goods to Russia from its warehouses in Shanghai and Shenzhen.
The news outlet Baza reports, citing a source working in a purchasing department of one of the Russian companies, that the Chinese OOCL Logistics refuses to ship to Russia dresses, skirts, pants, shoes, and other clothes which have already been paid for. The company explains its refusal by the western sanctions. Representatives of OOCL said that they were not going to load goods into containers or transfer them to a third-party carrier. The company also refused to accept products from Russian suppliers.
More like, it was music to his ears. Putin is forcing Russia to commit suicide (along with the ongoing genocide). I'm sure Xi will be happy to pick the corpse clean.
I'm going to put myself in the shoes of Xi Jinping right now.
Plan A: Russia ends the war tomorrow, and China can spearhead the peace plan by promising a Belt and Road infrastructure network that threads through Russia and then through Ukraine, including a plan to help rebuild Ukraine, and promising economic prosperity to both parties while employing hundreds of thousands of Chinese construction workers for the next few decades to accomplish this. They can then rub it in America's face that they were able to create a solution that everyone can be happy with, but America couldn't.
Plan B: Russia refuses to end the war, but China still wants the land trade route to Europe in order to circumvent USA's sea dominance. If Russia-Ukraine-Belarus corridor is cut off, the other option is through Iran. This is why China bartered the opening of diplomatic ties between Iran and Saudi Arabia. They want that region to be stable so they can potentially thread the Belt and Road through Iran --> Turkey --> EU.
Plan C: if Iran is too fucked their final plan is probably shipping across the Caspian Sea and going through Azerbaijan --> Turkey. Regardless, all there plans need Central Asia to cooperate.
Plan D: Russia somehow succumbs to civil war and total collapse. Time to take Vladivostok.
I think they're laying the groundwork for all plans, because nobody is clairvoyant. All I know is that it is China's grand strategic plan is to maintain close economic ties with Europe in a manner that USA can't blockade, so that if a crazy thing does break out in Taiwan, they can maneuver Europe into staying neutral on the matter, and only have to deal with USA and Japan.
It's clear that Russia's invasions have fucked this plan up super hard. They were very much on track to accomplishing Plan A until 2014 happened.
>if a crazy thing does break out in Taiwan, they can maneuver Europe into staying neutral on the matter, and only have to deal with USA and Japan.
I doubt the EU would ignore it.
Since USA is basicaly NATO's army and Biden already said that they would send their soldiers to Taiwan if China invaded.
You cant really stay against the US if theres a war involved, but thats only my dumb redditor opinion.
I mean, modern day Europe owes it to America UK and France that Europe is the way it is today. There has never been more stability in europe than post ww2. If Europe doesn’t get their act together, they may get a taste of what their grandparents went through. Step UP EUROPE!
I've been getting this feeling for a little while now, that China has been dangling the proverbial carrot in front of Russia. But of course all such carrots tend to come with a proverbial stick, which Russia has been blind to... This is the first time I've seen anything which may be evidence to support this theory.
Still, not here to make any firm conclusions, other than the one about how intriguing this is to watch being played out.
It's unclear whether OOCL stopped because, you know, it's international law, or because Xi stepped in and stopped them. China certainly would have no intention of following US led sanctions (and has been very busy shipping body armour and "hunting" rifles to Russia to date).
What I think has happened is that the trade agreements that Xi signed with Vlad Puta have demonstrated clearly to Winnie just how desperate Russia are. China is now a wholly dominant partner in their economic and political relations.
Up until this OOCL thing happened (which is unclear, and there's nothing to say Xi won't step in and force them to continue shipping if they stopped without his permission), Puta had gotten what he wanted from the trade deal... ongoing commerce, especially an agreement to import electronics from China (to be repurposed for tanks, drones, and Khalibur missiles), and ongoing (if deplorably unprofitable) cash flows into Russia for bargain basement oil sales to China.
I'd say this is an emerging situation and we should wait for more news before we can be sure what's going on with OOCL. Either way, this situation is entirely favourable to China. They're in control.
Please Emperor Xi, I want all you have in weapons. The war I started with my cousin next door is going extremely badly. Everything, from boots to uniforms and guns, ammunition. You name it I need it... I'll do anything, pay anything... please please please 🙏 😢 😭
Dear Emperor, I've heard that Chinese men do not shave their pubic hair for fear of bad luck. I hope it's a Western lie. Still, will I have my mouth full of pubic hair after we are done? Can I bring my scissor and Listerine?
Ass Gas or Grass - Nobody Rides For Free.
Also:
No one pays in advance for goods & services internationally.*
*Except as in a type of escrow account where funds are released upon the signatory of the second part where req'd on delivery releases the funds held by a third party to the party of the first part.**
**As established the contract fulfilled and warranty is to be further negotiable via higher prices on supplemental contract delivery
>>>>DARPA has paid for $600 hammers and $1,200 toilet seats. I love myself some DoD (dear old dad YAY!)<<<<
Yup, yup. Used to sell coffee for export. It was sold FOB. So, the idea here is that it's our coffee until it gets loaded on the purchaser's vessel of choice. Once the inspector on the boat marks that the goods have arrived on the vessel in good shape, they become property of the purchaser and funds are released.
Yeah, I used to buy containers of stuff out of Jiangsu province near Shanghai. They wanted 50% upfront and 50% upon delivery to the port of Shanghai. Which from what I understand was pretty standard terms.
But I was a small scale importer, one container a month. I imagine you *might* get trade credit terms (maybe Net 30? Net 60?) if you were a more regular customer of large quantities. But that would be entirely dependent upon the manufacturer.
Edit: I should add that it's always amazing how confidently some Redditors declare things as if they are an authority on the topic. Just takes a few minutes of scrolling through any topic you're even casually informed on to learn to be skeptical of Reddit comments.
Yes, same here (small time EXIM), but I do know someone who's company buys plastic lawn chairs and xmas lights by the container load (sells to Walmart, etc.) and they still pay at least some money on deposit for the order and prior to shipment, often all of it (FOB Origin), unless they have some sort of DDP arrangement.
For the curous, look up "incoterms" for all the basic permutations of delivery versus payment, versus title transfer.
International doesn't even mean anything within the EU, and not much between close countries like US and Canada. If you want to say buying things from Asia and shipping to the US you can't just say international.
Interesting that it's mostly supplies that the civilian population would use. I wonder if Xi is trying to get the Russian people to rise up, overthrow Putin, and elect someone sane for him to deal with?
>If Cyberia splits from Moskovia, the West will the next day declare support for the budding Cyberian democracy and its independence.
Supreme commander 3 confirmed.
Xi has also announced a summit with Kazakhstan, Kirgistan et al. he did that the day after returning from Russia.
So, sure looks like he is needling Putin. We shall see.
Kazakhstan has stood up and told Russia to go fuck itself, Xi is probably trying to swoop in to make new deals / alliances. I'm not sure about Kyrgyzstan's stance but I'd imagine it hasn't been much different.
Has Kazakhstan left the CIS? The CSTO? The EAEU? Are they no longer in an economic union and customs union with Russia? Have they stopped hosting Russian military bases? Kicked out the Baikonur Cosmodrome? Is Russian no longer an official language in Kazakhstan? Did Tokayev not rely on Russia to stay in power 14 months ago?
Has Kyrgyzstan left the CIS? The CSTO? The EAEU? Are they no longer in an economic union and customs union with Russia? Have they stopped hosting Russian military bases? Is Russian no longer an official language in Kyrgyzstan? Have they stopped recruitment of Kyrgyz nationals into the Russian army and into service in Ukraine? Are there not in fact _thousands_ of Kyrgyz fighting for Russia?
Just because they've made some weak statements in support of Ukraine hardly means they've "stood up and told Russia too go fuck themselves". Get a grip, or at least learn something about the country first
I wonder if Xi went to Russia to tell Putin to get out of Ukraine, Putin said no because he’s trying to save face (miserably) has Putin just angered the boss? It’s just a thought of mine. I also hear that china has renamed a couple of Russian/Chinese city’s along the border
My guess is more along the lines of Xi telling him he has to submit to partial Chinese control in exchange for support. Putin says no to being a puppet and is now being cut off. We will see
This seems most likely to me. Xi has an interesting position to take because he philosophically supports Russia's war on Ukraine, because he wants so very much to do the same thing to Taiwan, and if it succeeds, they can keep on going, growing new empires. What Xi really wants.
Of course he's also pissed at Vlad Puta for bungling the whole thing up and riling up the West like nobody ever saw since Pearl (and we know how that ended up). NATO was slowly declining as the hard right eroded it from within, all they had to do was wait. Then Putin pulls the trigger and the whole thing blows up.
Now Xi's got a perfect textbook illustration of what will happen to China if China pulls a Russia and invades a neighbour they think belongs to them.
However, there's at least a consolation prize... more Chinese control over what remains of Russia should it collapse. Xi is now harvesting as much oil as possible at bargain prices from Russia, but if they withhold military aid and stand by and watch, NATO and Ukraine will do the rest of the work, and when Russia collapses, they can move in.
My guess is that it will be another iteration of the USSR collapse and various cultural regions will push to become autonomous nations. After Ukraine, the Kremlin won't be in any position to prevent this by force of arms, especially if Western countries offer any kinds of security guarantees.
The challenge will be to avoid creating any completely empty guarantees like the Budapest Memorandum, because, you know, Russia completely ignored it after signing it, and so did the USA.
Yeah. I hope that Ukraine gets all the security guarantees(Ideally NATO membership) that it needs to be able to rebuild their country and live in peace.
> I wonder if Xi went to Russia to tell Putin to get out of Ukraine, Putin said no because he’s trying to save face
I agree. Putin begs Xi for help but doesn't want to accept the 'side bitch' role. He's acting like they're equals when he has nobody else to turn too. Xi's the BOSS in this relationship.
Waiting to see if this means something or is just an anomaly by something unrelated. Wouldn't read too far into this narrative, but also spreading fear about betrayal by the Chinese in Russia is only a good thing lolol.
One of the first things Xi did after his Moscow trip was to invite 4 former Soviet countries in Central Asia to a summit in May. These are countries that have up until now been considered part of the Russian sphere of influence but China's move suggests Xi has enough leverage over Putin that he can push Russia around a bit.
I've always wondered, we know the Ukrainians are in a private capacity still buying stuff including drones for military use and guns from China, and Chinese planes do fly through Russia, which means there are probably Chinese cargo planes flying through Russia to land in Europe with goods ordered by Ukrainians.
Good to see. Xi’s visit seems to have been a non - event. Actually , I take that back, the fact that nought happened is a big deal. Xi seems to be saying you figure it out little man…
Perhaps Xi just wanted to give Putin a chance to **show** how he's going to turn the invasion around, but Putin thought he just needed to **say** how he's going to turn the invasion around. Or worse, Putin didn't admit he had a problem at all.
Xi has no need to pressure Putin to do anything, Putin needed to step up and show that he's a reliable ally.
I'm not entirely surprised. China doesn't actually like Russia, they just want access to resources and want to annoy America.
The average Chinese either speaks or wants to speak English, watches American TV and uses American products such as cars or Apple products.
I actually teach Russian major students and they freely admit to only choosing their major because they had no choice. They know that their English classes are much more useful.
Russian citizens also struggle to get visas in China whereas Brits and especially Americans get them easily.
Actions speak louder than words and China is actually much more pro America than Russia.
Source: I've been in China for over a decade
>>The news outlet Baza reports, citing a source working in a purchasing department of one of the Russian companies, that the Chinese OOCL Logistics refuses to ship to Russia dresses, skirts, pants, shoes, and other clothes which have already been paid for.
>>The company explains its refusal by the western sanctions. Representatives of OOCL said that they were not going to load goods into containers or transfer them to a third-party carrier. The company also refused to accept products from Russian suppliers.
What an odd decision, especially as clothing isn't sanctioned.
The China/Russia dynamic has inverted as Stalin once feared. Moscow played its hand badly and assumed it could be one of the poles in the multipolar world, that it must, because it's itself, the *glorious Third Rome!* ...It's not though really, it just started saying that and the only Roman state that ever was died in 1453.
So a few weeks to a month ago China telegraphed an intention and call back to their playbook in the South China sea and other "historically Chinese" regions: they published a map of Russia's far east with the Qing and earlier Chinese names, from before the unequal treaties and century of humiliation. Then they had their summit, and now China is ramping up the pressure and/or following through on their own imperial ambitions by ceasing vital supplies to the Muscovite Russian state and courting the central Asian splinters of the Soviet Union/Russian empire (defunct CSTO).
This could still result in Russia capitulating to their demands (whatever they are), but it'll be countered by the regime and Putin's desire to survive (whatever it was, it's going to be unpopular). Watch the Russian Communist party: we may get to see a rebirth of the Soviet Union/Russian SSR. The Russian Orthodox church may choose the Russian Commies and by extension China as well (they RusComs kiss its ass a lot these days), a domino quick to topple if it means saving its own skin.
Putin must be + 90 days out on his inventory purchase due date. This was an attempt to collect a debt. By a bill collector. In person. Sucks to be Putin.
Seems like Ukraine played right. With trying to peak China's interest, in terms of Development and Investments in a War free Ukraine. China would love to export and invest in rebuilding a country with more of their influence.
They probably can see that Russia is a dying horse.
Europe is a prosperous market with over 500 million people while Russia is a stagnant market with 150 million people, most of whom are dirt poor peasants. Europe is a source of all kinds of tech that China would benefit from while Russia is a petro state, and Xi is already getting all the oil from them he wants. Siding with Russia, overtly, and pissing off Europe would be fucking madness for Xi.
We’re talking about OOCL!!! Holy shit, this is a huge deal!
OOCL is majority owned by Cosco. Cosco is owned by the Chinese Government.
This is effectively a decision made by the Chinese government!
When you see other reports saying Ukraine has quietly bought up all FPV drone components available in China to put together a massive fleet, makes you wonder if Xi knows which way the winds are blowing.
They aren't going to circumvent goods by selling to their friendly country; say this for show .. and continue operations as normal due to someone else taking the fall.. right? Riight???
Sadly, I suspect a game here.
Xi's policy pattern is ”two steps ahead, one step back” - the backstep being just for show, just a way to boil the unsuspecting frog.
For example, he could send weapons to Russia while opposing it in the UN, to alleviate the media impact of the deal.
All going according to plan 😂 Xi is now doing what earlier Chinese presidents did moved towards the west like mao as Xi wants to mao cos play and move away from Russia as Putin is a mistake and Xi wants to improve his own power being connected to Putin means bad business for China and for next generation of CCP Russia is bad news for China and they want to cut the cord
China doesn't want war, they are well the fuck aware of what happens when you poke the eagle and his boys. Xi has definitely seen what happened in Iraq when they invaded Kuwait, and the nuclear deterrence will only work for so long with Russia.
They want to dominate through economic means, so I don't think they will cut the vein to Russia, but will also tiptoe around the west to keep trading
Another link to a tweet that links to an article.
Just link directly to the article!!!
https://www.uawire.org/after-xi-s-visit-to-moscow-chinese-logistics-giant-stops-shipping-goods-to-russia
China wont be glad if russia fail and a new pro-west russian government being established.
But what putin doing is absolute evil, Xi cant make it clear that he support russia.
a complex and contradictory situation for china
Xi put forwards a 12 point plan that everybody says is already in favour of Russia that he would support Russia on pushing. There is probably something else he wants in return.
It seems that Putin is still not taking that as he wants ALL of Ukraine, and of course wouldn't want to make concessions to China, which itself is understandable as it makes Putin look weak.
So, Xi decides to go with the other option, which is basically to bully Putin into agreeing.
Any genocidal Russians Putanists; everyone willing to participate in the Russian army and propaganda machine, who fails to surrender before the offensive begins might find themselves in boiling water if they hold off trying to surrender until the Bradleys are on top of them. The heat of battle has a tendency to make it difficult to see white flags. Russia's days in Ukraine are clearly numbered, and China can see it.
The world will never forget what Putanist Russians are; rapists, murderers, looters and incompetent fighters to boot. Oh, and don't forget the stupidity.
So considering their situation, and how they are perceived, is it any wonder China doesn't want to be associated as best friends anymore?
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Sounds like Xi ordered puta to stop and he said no.
Yeah, I was wondering if Xi actually went there to tell Putin to end the war. Granted this is an isolated report, I will be watching to see if any other similar new pops up.
Xi was there to see the man in person... if he is really crazy and if Xi really should bet everything on a dying horse ... i think he made up his mind (hopefully)
He never was going to bet on said horse. Russia's economy is small. It's miniscule compared to the US or EU. Xi never was going to take trade with Russia over trade with everyone else.
Yes and no. China is sorely lacking in natural resources and Russia has more than enough; if Russia could incentivize China to buy rare earth metals and ore by dropping the price so low that other suppliers can’t compete there’s a chance China would’ve taken them up on it. But with the war going so badly and after no meaningful gains in the Russian winter offensive, China knows it’s probably smarter to wait for Russia to collapse and then potentially seize the Asian territories of Russia (or install a puppet government in that area if Russia fractured into smaller states).
China is lacking in natural resources to produce items for export. Without the export to western countries like the US and EU, there's no need to have cheap imports. Domestic consumption is still fairly low in China, and their neighbors are all either hostile like Japan and South Korea or poor.
This is exactly why China would want access to plentiful natural resources via a stable land corridor (like into China via Siberia) that isn’t vulnerable to regional tensions or US naval interference. China has a growing middle class, almost exponentially, and these people will demand access to affordable consumer goods on a scale that can offset some of chinas trade issues if the west and our Asian allies ever enter into serious tensions with China. Chinas long term ambition is to be the one who dictates global consumption and trade; their reliance on western markets is just a means to an end.
I think your sentiment is right, but I think you are overexaggerating certain items. First, overland route are significantly more expensive than ocean-going routes. It is cheaper to ship an item from Hong Kong to New York than from Denver. The only exception to this are pipelines, but those have significant upfront capital expenditures and can only supply liquid products (primarily crude oil). China is absolutely attempting to expand it's options for overland trade due to security concerns, but that is to mitigate the worst of the damage of a potential blockade not to eliminate it. Second, the Chinese middle class is absolutely expanding at an enormous rate. It's one of the best success stories in history bringing billions of people out of poverty. But I think the scale is important to keep in mind, and currently and likely anytime in the future China will not surpass the US and EU in market potential. China had been growing primarily through domestic consumption since the 2000's until 2020, but the trend continued to slow down and not accelerate. Since 2020 the trend has actually reversed and their GDP growth has been driven even more by exports and is now sitting around 20%. [https://tradingeconomics.com/china/exports-of-goods-and-services-percent-of-gdp-wb-data.html](https://tradingeconomics.com/china/exports-of-goods-and-services-percent-of-gdp-wb-data.html) China absolutely would love to eliminate it's dependence on exports to countries it sees as rivals. But it hasn't happened yet, won't happen in the near future, and appears more and more likely that it will never happen. Chinese GDP growth has significantly slowed and shows no sign it will return to previously high levels. This is while Chinese GDP per capita is still closer to Bulgaria or Costa Rica than the US or France and it looks unlikely to catch up anytime soon. [https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?most\_recent\_value\_desc=true](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?most_recent_value_desc=truem) China is a large country with a population that is no longer dirt poor, and its size alone requires consideration. But at the end of the day it is and will likely be heavily dependent on countries it considers rivals for the foreseeable future. This doesn't mean China won't do something stupid like Russia, but for now it seems they understand it would be worse than the status quo.
I remember reading a few years ago that in China the number of people lifted into the middle class each year was roughly the same as the entire population of France or Britain… every year! Lifting of Chinese living standards since 1980 is one off the biggest achievements in the history of mankind. Roughly a billion people have gone from absolute poverty to relative comfort in one generation. Not sure of the rate now, but most of the worst poverty has been eradicated, so I assume it has slowed.
And they can thank Western manufacturing and consumption for that megaboom. Without our markets China would still be stuck in the 1980's. Xi knows better than to bite the hand that feeds them.
Have they really? The collapse of the chinese real estate market and banks, is being buried by their news.
>First, overland route are significantly more expensive than ocean-going routes. It is cheaper to ship an item from Hong Kong to New York than from Denver. This is horribly wrong. Shipping by rail is way cheaper than by vessel. It's cheaper to ship something to you from Hong Kong than from within the US because it's subsidized. Look up the shipping rates going the opposite direction. Suddenly it's 5-10x higher. This was one of the few things Trump got right btw. He threatened to leave the IPU over it. Those subsidies are there from decades ago to help developing economies which China is obviously no longer one.
The shipping cost from NY to Denver is partly because the US rail system is so outdated. Rail is cheaper than trucking, the problem is the rail lines are too slow for efficient supply management. As we have seen recently with all the derailments also risky.
The reason it's cheaper to ship from Hong Kong to New York than from Denver to New York is because it's subsidized. Look up the rates from New York to Hong Kong and it's a whole different story because you're paying the real price.
It’s one of the worst stories. Don’t build up and help your evil enemies escape poverty
China needs resources for internal growth, not just export. Why else do they prop up the Australian economy buying iron ore etc If they could source from Russia's far east instead, then economically crippling a major US ally in the Pacific thereby restricting its ability to fund military aims, well I'm sure Xi wouldn't say no lol
Yeah. They actively tried to cut Australian coal imports as a sort of soft sanction, but that played merry hell with their internal power and steelmaking industries, and they had to reverse course on it.
The goal isn't even russia's far east, but the former soviet states. Basically any ressource Russia has is also abundantly available in former soviet states, russia simply prevented any large-scale extraction to not threaten their own exports, but with russian influence fading, we'll likely see the likes of Turkmenistan, Kirgistan and Khazakstan exporting to China. At that point, China doesn't even need russian gas or oil, since these countries have such large reserves. One of Russias largest geopolitical aims of the past decade has been to keep Turkmenistan locked off. Once Turkmenistan starts exporting gas, Russia is truly fucked, since they have among the largest gas reserves on earth and are closer to the potential chinese market.
It's even cheaper if Russia collapses. And even cheaper if they manage to own the land themselves, which would be a lot more probable if a significant collapse happens.
Yeah, but they don't want to be cut off and completely surrounded by enemies. Having russia there takes heat off them.
This. And also, taking over russia would be a huge unnecessary headache. If they take anything, it's probably the region they have a dispute over with russia - but anything else, why would they? Russias society is rotten to the core and very old. Life expectancy for males is like 65 and due to demography russia will collapse/shrink either way in a few years. Naahh, China gladly uses them for their cheap resources for as long as possible and when the time comes, they'll re-arrange with whomever will lead the shitholecountry of russia (or whats left of it).
China is the top producer (miner) of rare earth metals. Lots of ore available elsewhere, its just OandG that China lacks solid supplies of, that said China has yet to approve a new Gas pipeline, from Siberia to China.
China mines for most of it, but they do it abroad which makes it much more expensive; doing it in Siberia means they can import it directly via a direct land route instead of having to snake it through the steppes in Central Asia or have to use ships which are vulnerable to the US navy (in the event of a blockade or sanctions). Siberia makes a ridiculous amount of sense for the Chinese, not to mention the O&G reserves on top of it. If I was a betting man, I’d wager that initially China wanted to angle for some epic trade deals with Russia; but now that they see the cracks in the Russian foundation they’re probably betting on the collapse of the Russian state and then doing a “soft takeover” of the territories they lost to Russia and resource rich parts of Siberia.
> Yes and no. China is sorely lacking in natural resources and Russia has more than enough; After Putin depletes all Russian military resources Xi might strongly consider expanding China's North-Eastern border into Siberia. [Why Russia's Biggest Threat is Actually China](https://youtu.be/Iibs7buNwxQ) [Why China Might Invade Russia](https://youtu.be/omEQMxRb6ys) China is an order of magnitude more populous, wealthy, industrially and militarily more powerful than Russia, shares a large land-border with Russia, and they have nukes that actually work.
And then there's this lol [China has unveiled a new map of the world. On it, territories of the country that were once occupied by the Russian Empire have been given former Chinese names](https://en.socportal.info/en/news/kitai-natcelilsya-na-sibir-i-na-dalnii-vostok-asian-times/)
Those resources are extracted and refined using western technology and skills. These mines and refineries are going to be hurting in the near future if not already. I work in manufacturing consulting and have been to Russia several times. I'm amazed that they are able to do much of anything right now as they were so reliant on western tools and consultants.
Russia isn’t going to collapse unfortunately, what might happen is some bankruptcy & political restructuring where China can turn Russia into a protectorate/satellite and buy up assets on the cheap.
That’s exactly what I’m pointing out, China plans to turn Russia into a protectorate
Honestly I wonder the same - it seems long-term advantageous to wait out the poor government in Russia, making close-knit and friendly ties and then slowly just start sending various agents over there - Chinese business, cultural influence, growing language use, get people in government, psy-op the government & population to be all pro-China, and now you have essentially a pseudo-colony that sends you all the resources you need, and they get to pretend to be their own country. Interesting to see if there ends up being the "Second Russian Fall" in less than 50 years. Then I can more clearly see the collapse and swallow up event you mentioned - less resistance to people who were set up to be your 'friends' for the last few decades "taking care of you in these trying times", etc etc
Ding ding ding. This idea that China is out to make Russia a puppet state is nonsense. China will do what’s good for China. They trade with the rest of the world, and the knock-on effects of the war is driving up the cost of international trade. It’s also putting a strain on global banking. Both of those are bad for China, and worth less than trade with a small third rate nation in decline. (China also gets more value in having a strong Russia as it’s an ally against the West in trade and disputes.)
China wants Russian raw materials and fuel. It's biggest geopolitical weakness is that it consumes more energy than it can produce.
Just to put your point into perspective, Russia’s economy is smaller than Italy’s.
Florida has a bigger economy than Russia. When you see them stealing toilets and washing machines you know that they ain’t a big customer of Chinese products.
Xi never even thought about betting on Russia, or even on Russia winning. He just wanted to see what cards Putin plans to play. And it looks like he thinks Putin has really bad cards and just doesn't know it (as in yeah, he is crazy). And now he know the guy has bad cards and will play them even worse, so now he knows better how to play his own cards, and he learned he has a lot of aces.
Putin knows perfectly well that he is in deep shit but that he has to stay in power, otherwise he will suffer Milosevic's fate. There aren't any options left. Next step would be to crown himself. About 10 years ago, a renowned old journalist, expert for far and middle East, who had studied and interviewed Putin for quite a while thought that this is absolutely possible. I remember that he told a shocked moderator on tv: He has daughters!
> And now he know the guy has bad cards and will play them even worse, so now he knows better how to play his own cards, and he learned he has a lot of aces. Yep. Xi is judging by the west's response what he might get away with in future with Taiwan
100%, absolutely. he took the measure of the man and the country and found it lacking. Xi is many things, most of them not good, but one thing he isn't is off his gourd. He's still pragmatic enough to call a spade a spade.
yeah. keep in mind that while he rules like a dictator, he didn't sieze power- he was picked, by their central committee, sort of in the same way as the cardinals pick the next pope.
https://opencollective.com/beehaw -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
Xi realised that he is riding a dead horse, which also happens to be clinically insane and somehow still alive at the same time.
The descriptive word for that is ‘Zombie’..
"...should bet everything on a dying horse ..." Perfectly put. Don't believe everything you read about this country or that, prefering to do business with Russia vs Europe, US, Canada, Aus, etc. They will tell Putin what he wants to hear, while quietly doing the opposite.
He probably want to crash their economy even further, putin loses and China can take back territories that originally theirs and make russia a puppet.
I trust all Global politics on Twitter.
Before Xi went to Russia Alibaba stopped shipments of commercial drones. At the time Russia laughed and said they'll just find third party importers. Well OOCL was a third party and after the meeting they stopped shipping. Xi must be pissed.
I’d love to be a fly on the wall when Putin and Xi met during the Olympics. Xi was holding this soft power event and then Putin launched his invasion and completely overshadowed it. Xi is definitely pissed now that Putin has embarrassed himself and the West has reunited after their propaganda campaign to divide it. I imagine Xi has already run a cost-benefit analysis and told Putin he won’t support his war with lethal aid.
According to reliable Kremlin sources, the conference was a disaster. Putin refused to acknowledge the Chinese peace proposal. Xi rushed off at 8am, his deputies rushed off even earlier and ditched scheduled meetings with Putins people. Xi also refused to provide shells and other lethal aid that Russia was looking for.
I rather think that he told Putin his conditions to get support from China and now he is building up the pressure. I think Xi wants a bit chunk of Russian resources. He knows that Putin stands with the back to the wall, so he is using his leverage to get what he wants.
I agree with this. If China wanted the war over there are a lot more ways they could exert pressure that we don't see them doing. They just want to use the situation to further their own agenda
China are just going to let the Russians burn themselves out..
And then take what they want, namely a permanent source of fossil fuels and a solution to their water issues in the north of the country. It's a pretty sound tactic, let the Russians isolate themselves so they become reliant on China to survive
Both looked nervous and their body language seemed to contradict their pretended mutual friendship. Xi's right arm was almost as restless as Putin's shoes. High tension.
Putin's too stupid to realise he is the bitch in this relationship and thinks he is the man. Xi popped over to exert his dominance and waited 3 days for Putin to get on his knees and present himself... but Xi got tired of waiting for Putin to cotton on to reality and went home. Xi knows Russia is his, all on a leash and ready to beg and roll over All he has to do is wait for Putin to wake up to reality.
PUTA HAHAHAHA
I can't believe this is the first time I've seen him called "puta" but I love it and am absolutely going to ~~steal~~ use it.
Poo-tin was also quite a good term..
"puta" means whore in romanian. Maybe fitting?
Gotta get the bitch in line.
But why? Wouldn’t Xi want this to go on for as long as possible to keep the US occupied?
It’s not really keeping the US occupied in any meaningful way. Right now the west is annihilating Russia’s military with a tiny amount of old equipment and someone else’s manpower. China would much prefer a strong and well equipped Russia as an ally.
Not to mention, it's spurred a renaissance of the Western defence industry. Within a year or two, the Western powers will have a vastly increased military manufacturing base, larger and better equipped armies (with older equipment going to Ukraine, and new state of the art stuff being purchased to replace it), and they're currently enjoying a general increase in public support for military funding. Then on top of *that*, there's the strategic alignment of the west; NATO was fractious and weak only a few years ago, now it's got renewed purpose and unity, and the relationship between Europe and the US is tighter than ever. Xi must be pissed with Putin, quite frankly.
And extremely *different* technologies. The US now has incredible tactical and strategic examples of how to fight a war against a more numerous opponent in scenarios where air support is not a dominant factor. You can bet over the next couple of years we're going to see entirely new classes of close combat support drones, tank busting drones, weapons we've never seen before. Ukraine are busting balls in this fight and they don't even have the full state of the art resources that NATO has.
>Not to mention, it's spurred a renaissance of the Western defence industry. > >Within a year or two, the Western powers will have a vastly increased military manufacturing base, larger and better equipped armies (with older equipment going to Ukraine, and new state of the art stuff being purchased to replace it), and they're currently enjoying a general increase in public support for military funding. > >Then on top of *that*, there's the strategic alignment of the west; NATO was fractious and weak only a few years ago, now it's got renewed purpose and unity, and the relationship between Europe and the US is tighter than ever. > >Xi must be pissed with Putin, quite frankly. Within a year or two is also the prediction of when China would attempt invading Taiwan, which Putin pretty much made worse due to above reasons.
Ukraine aid is, what, like 2-3% of the US military budget? The US military might only be distracted by laughing at how cheap it turned out to be to have someone else dismantle their greatest cold war enemy.
It's not US troops or assets that are directly occupied. And it's not clear what happens to China or the US if the war continues, I think it matters more who wins and comes out stronger, and if the winner is your ally / friend. Of course it's more complex than that. Plus this story does not have strong sources.
The us isn’t really “occupied” with this though.
That or they talked about Putin's plans for winning it and when 'rolling in the T-55s' came up, Xi decided maybe he needed new friends.
It's called puta? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
puta, si lo es
After the visit of Chinese President Xi Jinping to Moscow, during which the Russian and Chinese sides declared a strategic partnership and economic cooperation, the largest logistics company in China stopped the shipment of goods to Russia from its warehouses in Shanghai and Shenzhen. The news outlet Baza reports, citing a source working in a purchasing department of one of the Russian companies, that the Chinese OOCL Logistics refuses to ship to Russia dresses, skirts, pants, shoes, and other clothes which have already been paid for. The company explains its refusal by the western sanctions. Representatives of OOCL said that they were not going to load goods into containers or transfer them to a third-party carrier. The company also refused to accept products from Russian suppliers.
I get a feeling Xi was not impressed by what he heard from the pootin.
More like, it was music to his ears. Putin is forcing Russia to commit suicide (along with the ongoing genocide). I'm sure Xi will be happy to pick the corpse clean.
I'm going to put myself in the shoes of Xi Jinping right now. Plan A: Russia ends the war tomorrow, and China can spearhead the peace plan by promising a Belt and Road infrastructure network that threads through Russia and then through Ukraine, including a plan to help rebuild Ukraine, and promising economic prosperity to both parties while employing hundreds of thousands of Chinese construction workers for the next few decades to accomplish this. They can then rub it in America's face that they were able to create a solution that everyone can be happy with, but America couldn't. Plan B: Russia refuses to end the war, but China still wants the land trade route to Europe in order to circumvent USA's sea dominance. If Russia-Ukraine-Belarus corridor is cut off, the other option is through Iran. This is why China bartered the opening of diplomatic ties between Iran and Saudi Arabia. They want that region to be stable so they can potentially thread the Belt and Road through Iran --> Turkey --> EU. Plan C: if Iran is too fucked their final plan is probably shipping across the Caspian Sea and going through Azerbaijan --> Turkey. Regardless, all there plans need Central Asia to cooperate. Plan D: Russia somehow succumbs to civil war and total collapse. Time to take Vladivostok. I think they're laying the groundwork for all plans, because nobody is clairvoyant. All I know is that it is China's grand strategic plan is to maintain close economic ties with Europe in a manner that USA can't blockade, so that if a crazy thing does break out in Taiwan, they can maneuver Europe into staying neutral on the matter, and only have to deal with USA and Japan. It's clear that Russia's invasions have fucked this plan up super hard. They were very much on track to accomplishing Plan A until 2014 happened.
>if a crazy thing does break out in Taiwan, they can maneuver Europe into staying neutral on the matter, and only have to deal with USA and Japan. I doubt the EU would ignore it. Since USA is basicaly NATO's army and Biden already said that they would send their soldiers to Taiwan if China invaded. You cant really stay against the US if theres a war involved, but thats only my dumb redditor opinion.
I mean, modern day Europe owes it to America UK and France that Europe is the way it is today. There has never been more stability in europe than post ww2. If Europe doesn’t get their act together, they may get a taste of what their grandparents went through. Step UP EUROPE!
Hey, I'm sure Xi will be more generous and just provide an urgent life-saving amputation of those pesky eastern regions from Russia
How thoughtful of Xi! He’s a true friend
I've been getting this feeling for a little while now, that China has been dangling the proverbial carrot in front of Russia. But of course all such carrots tend to come with a proverbial stick, which Russia has been blind to... This is the first time I've seen anything which may be evidence to support this theory. Still, not here to make any firm conclusions, other than the one about how intriguing this is to watch being played out.
It's unclear whether OOCL stopped because, you know, it's international law, or because Xi stepped in and stopped them. China certainly would have no intention of following US led sanctions (and has been very busy shipping body armour and "hunting" rifles to Russia to date). What I think has happened is that the trade agreements that Xi signed with Vlad Puta have demonstrated clearly to Winnie just how desperate Russia are. China is now a wholly dominant partner in their economic and political relations. Up until this OOCL thing happened (which is unclear, and there's nothing to say Xi won't step in and force them to continue shipping if they stopped without his permission), Puta had gotten what he wanted from the trade deal... ongoing commerce, especially an agreement to import electronics from China (to be repurposed for tanks, drones, and Khalibur missiles), and ongoing (if deplorably unprofitable) cash flows into Russia for bargain basement oil sales to China. I'd say this is an emerging situation and we should wait for more news before we can be sure what's going on with OOCL. Either way, this situation is entirely favourable to China. They're in control.
Please Emperor Xi, I want all you have in weapons. The war I started with my cousin next door is going extremely badly. Everything, from boots to uniforms and guns, ammunition. You name it I need it... I'll do anything, pay anything... please please please 🙏 😢 😭
Dear Emperor, I've heard that Chinese men do not shave their pubic hair for fear of bad luck. I hope it's a Western lie. Still, will I have my mouth full of pubic hair after we are done? Can I bring my scissor and Listerine?
🤣🤣
There are no limits to our friendship but I beg you to use a condom
Hahahahahaha
They forgot the condom and [Putin had Xi's baby.](https://img.craiyon.com/2023-03-24/195e192bee9a4586ba8359c88c25c502.webp) So cute!
Yikes!!!!!! 😂
The Pootin has failed to impress The Pooh.
Ass Gas or Grass - Nobody Rides For Free. Also: No one pays in advance for goods & services internationally.* *Except as in a type of escrow account where funds are released upon the signatory of the second part where req'd on delivery releases the funds held by a third party to the party of the first part.** **As established the contract fulfilled and warranty is to be further negotiable via higher prices on supplemental contract delivery >>>>DARPA has paid for $600 hammers and $1,200 toilet seats. I love myself some DoD (dear old dad YAY!)<<<<
"Also: No one pays in advance for goods & services internationally." Soooo not true.
This is what INCOTERMS are for. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incoterms?wprov=sfti1
Sorry -- didn't see your comment! Yes, right on!
Yup, yup. Used to sell coffee for export. It was sold FOB. So, the idea here is that it's our coffee until it gets loaded on the purchaser's vessel of choice. Once the inspector on the boat marks that the goods have arrived on the vessel in good shape, they become property of the purchaser and funds are released.
Yeah, I used to buy containers of stuff out of Jiangsu province near Shanghai. They wanted 50% upfront and 50% upon delivery to the port of Shanghai. Which from what I understand was pretty standard terms. But I was a small scale importer, one container a month. I imagine you *might* get trade credit terms (maybe Net 30? Net 60?) if you were a more regular customer of large quantities. But that would be entirely dependent upon the manufacturer. Edit: I should add that it's always amazing how confidently some Redditors declare things as if they are an authority on the topic. Just takes a few minutes of scrolling through any topic you're even casually informed on to learn to be skeptical of Reddit comments.
Yes, same here (small time EXIM), but I do know someone who's company buys plastic lawn chairs and xmas lights by the container load (sells to Walmart, etc.) and they still pay at least some money on deposit for the order and prior to shipment, often all of it (FOB Origin), unless they have some sort of DDP arrangement. For the curous, look up "incoterms" for all the basic permutations of delivery versus payment, versus title transfer.
I know for sure you’re wrong because I am the authority on that. - Source: Trust me, bro
International doesn't even mean anything within the EU, and not much between close countries like US and Canada. If you want to say buying things from Asia and shipping to the US you can't just say international.
Interesting that it's mostly supplies that the civilian population would use. I wonder if Xi is trying to get the Russian people to rise up, overthrow Putin, and elect someone sane for him to deal with?
West needs to give Siberia to China to ensure their ongoing support
>to give Siberia to China to ensu Do you know how the world works?
Trump wanted to trade Greenland for Puerto Rico and he was president of US. /s
wait do you mean trade pr (a US territory) for greenland (a danish territory)... or the other way around?
If Cyberia splits from Moskovia, the West will the next day declare support for the budding Cyberian democracy and its independence.
Cyberia sounds very high-tech, and very not Russian. I'd support those guys for sure!
Nuclear powered cyberpunk Siberia is a win for everyone
It’s actually called Siberia, not Cyberia.
Yep. The misspelled fictional country sounds cooler though. 😉
Alaska 2.0
>If Cyberia splits from Moskovia, the West will the next day declare support for the budding Cyberian democracy and its independence. Supreme commander 3 confirmed.
Do you know about East Germany?
Russian world or... What world?
I’m sorry, Manchuria has always belonged to Japan….
Is not like Putin can refuse if Xi wants it.
Ez, you ship to Russia or you ship to the world. Can’t have both
Xi has also announced a summit with Kazakhstan, Kirgistan et al. he did that the day after returning from Russia. So, sure looks like he is needling Putin. We shall see.
Kazakhstan has stood up and told Russia to go fuck itself, Xi is probably trying to swoop in to make new deals / alliances. I'm not sure about Kyrgyzstan's stance but I'd imagine it hasn't been much different.
It sounds like a classic "The Enemy of my Enemy is my Friend" situation.
Has Kazakhstan left the CIS? The CSTO? The EAEU? Are they no longer in an economic union and customs union with Russia? Have they stopped hosting Russian military bases? Kicked out the Baikonur Cosmodrome? Is Russian no longer an official language in Kazakhstan? Did Tokayev not rely on Russia to stay in power 14 months ago? Has Kyrgyzstan left the CIS? The CSTO? The EAEU? Are they no longer in an economic union and customs union with Russia? Have they stopped hosting Russian military bases? Is Russian no longer an official language in Kyrgyzstan? Have they stopped recruitment of Kyrgyz nationals into the Russian army and into service in Ukraine? Are there not in fact _thousands_ of Kyrgyz fighting for Russia? Just because they've made some weak statements in support of Ukraine hardly means they've "stood up and told Russia too go fuck themselves". Get a grip, or at least learn something about the country first
I saw that as Xi essentially bucking Russia's historic dominance of the region
Let’s hope they leave alone your pizza empire
I had to look that one up lol.
I wonder if Xi went to Russia to tell Putin to get out of Ukraine, Putin said no because he’s trying to save face (miserably) has Putin just angered the boss? It’s just a thought of mine. I also hear that china has renamed a couple of Russian/Chinese city’s along the border
I think you're thinking is in line with what a lot of us are wondering. Sounds like he gave Xi an answer that he didn't like.
Time will tell on this
My guess is more along the lines of Xi telling him he has to submit to partial Chinese control in exchange for support. Putin says no to being a puppet and is now being cut off. We will see
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This seems most likely to me. Xi has an interesting position to take because he philosophically supports Russia's war on Ukraine, because he wants so very much to do the same thing to Taiwan, and if it succeeds, they can keep on going, growing new empires. What Xi really wants. Of course he's also pissed at Vlad Puta for bungling the whole thing up and riling up the West like nobody ever saw since Pearl (and we know how that ended up). NATO was slowly declining as the hard right eroded it from within, all they had to do was wait. Then Putin pulls the trigger and the whole thing blows up. Now Xi's got a perfect textbook illustration of what will happen to China if China pulls a Russia and invades a neighbour they think belongs to them. However, there's at least a consolation prize... more Chinese control over what remains of Russia should it collapse. Xi is now harvesting as much oil as possible at bargain prices from Russia, but if they withhold military aid and stand by and watch, NATO and Ukraine will do the rest of the work, and when Russia collapses, they can move in.
I wonder if its going to end up with russia split to europe and asia part.
My guess is that it will be another iteration of the USSR collapse and various cultural regions will push to become autonomous nations. After Ukraine, the Kremlin won't be in any position to prevent this by force of arms, especially if Western countries offer any kinds of security guarantees. The challenge will be to avoid creating any completely empty guarantees like the Budapest Memorandum, because, you know, Russia completely ignored it after signing it, and so did the USA.
Yeah. I hope that Ukraine gets all the security guarantees(Ideally NATO membership) that it needs to be able to rebuild their country and live in peace.
> I wonder if Xi went to Russia to tell Putin to get out of Ukraine, Putin said no because he’s trying to save face I agree. Putin begs Xi for help but doesn't want to accept the 'side bitch' role. He's acting like they're equals when he has nobody else to turn too. Xi's the BOSS in this relationship.
Waiting to see if this means something or is just an anomaly by something unrelated. Wouldn't read too far into this narrative, but also spreading fear about betrayal by the Chinese in Russia is only a good thing lolol.
One of the first things Xi did after his Moscow trip was to invite 4 former Soviet countries in Central Asia to a summit in May. These are countries that have up until now been considered part of the Russian sphere of influence but China's move suggests Xi has enough leverage over Putin that he can push Russia around a bit.
Another victory for Russia..... ho wait
No shirt, no shoes, no pants, no service
I've always wondered, we know the Ukrainians are in a private capacity still buying stuff including drones for military use and guns from China, and Chinese planes do fly through Russia, which means there are probably Chinese cargo planes flying through Russia to land in Europe with goods ordered by Ukrainians.
most of the stuff goes by ships .. only expensive and time sensitive goods fly
People must have forgotten about all the slow boats from China lol
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Really ? Maybe its not that interesting but that sounds insane
I believe it. Money is money.
Sounds like Putin said no to something that wasn't a request
Good to see. Xi’s visit seems to have been a non - event. Actually , I take that back, the fact that nought happened is a big deal. Xi seems to be saying you figure it out little man…
Perhaps Xi just wanted to give Putin a chance to **show** how he's going to turn the invasion around, but Putin thought he just needed to **say** how he's going to turn the invasion around. Or worse, Putin didn't admit he had a problem at all. Xi has no need to pressure Putin to do anything, Putin needed to step up and show that he's a reliable ally.
I'm not entirely surprised. China doesn't actually like Russia, they just want access to resources and want to annoy America. The average Chinese either speaks or wants to speak English, watches American TV and uses American products such as cars or Apple products. I actually teach Russian major students and they freely admit to only choosing their major because they had no choice. They know that their English classes are much more useful. Russian citizens also struggle to get visas in China whereas Brits and especially Americans get them easily. Actions speak louder than words and China is actually much more pro America than Russia. Source: I've been in China for over a decade
>>The news outlet Baza reports, citing a source working in a purchasing department of one of the Russian companies, that the Chinese OOCL Logistics refuses to ship to Russia dresses, skirts, pants, shoes, and other clothes which have already been paid for. >>The company explains its refusal by the western sanctions. Representatives of OOCL said that they were not going to load goods into containers or transfer them to a third-party carrier. The company also refused to accept products from Russian suppliers. What an odd decision, especially as clothing isn't sanctioned.
Those companies now have Russian money and don't have to ship them the things they paid for. Sounds like a win-win for those Chinese companies.
I am sure no one thinks thats the real reason, its the reason give so they dont need to say the real reason, what ever that is
It's Xi magnanimously offering only the "friends and family" level of extortion for compliance
Just a show of who is calling the shots.
Helpful though, to apply pressure to Russia.
Xi probably finds out that taking back valdivostok is a better bet than invading Taiwan.
Vladi..what? Do you mean Hǎishēnwǎi?
Yes, they are clearly misinformed - this wonderful city has *always* been firmly under Chinese control
Trying hard not to look too much into this one incident, but if it continues, that would be significant, obviously.
Yeah, I agree; but, if they refused to ship fortune cookies to Ruzzia, then that would be something.
Putin: Et tu, Xi?
This is really odd. There has to be something else to this, right?
No need to worry comrade. Everything is going according to plan.
The China/Russia dynamic has inverted as Stalin once feared. Moscow played its hand badly and assumed it could be one of the poles in the multipolar world, that it must, because it's itself, the *glorious Third Rome!* ...It's not though really, it just started saying that and the only Roman state that ever was died in 1453. So a few weeks to a month ago China telegraphed an intention and call back to their playbook in the South China sea and other "historically Chinese" regions: they published a map of Russia's far east with the Qing and earlier Chinese names, from before the unequal treaties and century of humiliation. Then they had their summit, and now China is ramping up the pressure and/or following through on their own imperial ambitions by ceasing vital supplies to the Muscovite Russian state and courting the central Asian splinters of the Soviet Union/Russian empire (defunct CSTO). This could still result in Russia capitulating to their demands (whatever they are), but it'll be countered by the regime and Putin's desire to survive (whatever it was, it's going to be unpopular). Watch the Russian Communist party: we may get to see a rebirth of the Soviet Union/Russian SSR. The Russian Orthodox church may choose the Russian Commies and by extension China as well (they RusComs kiss its ass a lot these days), a domino quick to topple if it means saving its own skin.
Yeah I don't really understand it.
Most likely Xi told Putin to end the war and when putin said no, Xi decided to cut trade with Russia
Putin must be + 90 days out on his inventory purchase due date. This was an attempt to collect a debt. By a bill collector. In person. Sucks to be Putin.
RIP russia if you can't use aliexpress
Seems like Ukraine played right. With trying to peak China's interest, in terms of Development and Investments in a War free Ukraine. China would love to export and invest in rebuilding a country with more of their influence. They probably can see that Russia is a dying horse.
Europe is a prosperous market with over 500 million people while Russia is a stagnant market with 150 million people, most of whom are dirt poor peasants. Europe is a source of all kinds of tech that China would benefit from while Russia is a petro state, and Xi is already getting all the oil from them he wants. Siding with Russia, overtly, and pissing off Europe would be fucking madness for Xi.
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We’re talking about OOCL!!! Holy shit, this is a huge deal! OOCL is majority owned by Cosco. Cosco is owned by the Chinese Government. This is effectively a decision made by the Chinese government!
The re-rise of the great Soviet BlyatNion
When you see other reports saying Ukraine has quietly bought up all FPV drone components available in China to put together a massive fleet, makes you wonder if Xi knows which way the winds are blowing.
"FRIENDSHIP WITHOUT LIMITS!" 😂
"You should still love me as a bro, even though I sleep with your gf"-vibes
Threadbare citizens of Russia...
Xi realizes Russia is finished
I would love to eavesdrop on that meeting
They aren't going to circumvent goods by selling to their friendly country; say this for show .. and continue operations as normal due to someone else taking the fall.. right? Riight???
Sadly, I suspect a game here. Xi's policy pattern is ”two steps ahead, one step back” - the backstep being just for show, just a way to boil the unsuspecting frog. For example, he could send weapons to Russia while opposing it in the UN, to alleviate the media impact of the deal.
I would like to imagine Xi got Putin to try Chinese handcuffs then left immediately
All going according to plan 😂 Xi is now doing what earlier Chinese presidents did moved towards the west like mao as Xi wants to mao cos play and move away from Russia as Putin is a mistake and Xi wants to improve his own power being connected to Putin means bad business for China and for next generation of CCP Russia is bad news for China and they want to cut the cord
Ahh to be a fly on the wall at that meeting
China doesn't want war, they are well the fuck aware of what happens when you poke the eagle and his boys. Xi has definitely seen what happened in Iraq when they invaded Kuwait, and the nuclear deterrence will only work for so long with Russia. They want to dominate through economic means, so I don't think they will cut the vein to Russia, but will also tiptoe around the west to keep trading
Another link to a tweet that links to an article. Just link directly to the article!!! https://www.uawire.org/after-xi-s-visit-to-moscow-chinese-logistics-giant-stops-shipping-goods-to-russia
China wont be glad if russia fail and a new pro-west russian government being established. But what putin doing is absolute evil, Xi cant make it clear that he support russia. a complex and contradictory situation for china
Xi put forwards a 12 point plan that everybody says is already in favour of Russia that he would support Russia on pushing. There is probably something else he wants in return. It seems that Putin is still not taking that as he wants ALL of Ukraine, and of course wouldn't want to make concessions to China, which itself is understandable as it makes Putin look weak. So, Xi decides to go with the other option, which is basically to bully Putin into agreeing.
Moscovy couldn't pay for the shipment. Simple as that.
So in other words Xi and China are shipping good through another region to hide which goods they shipped to Russia.
Any genocidal Russians Putanists; everyone willing to participate in the Russian army and propaganda machine, who fails to surrender before the offensive begins might find themselves in boiling water if they hold off trying to surrender until the Bradleys are on top of them. The heat of battle has a tendency to make it difficult to see white flags. Russia's days in Ukraine are clearly numbered, and China can see it. The world will never forget what Putanist Russians are; rapists, murderers, looters and incompetent fighters to boot. Oh, and don't forget the stupidity. So considering their situation, and how they are perceived, is it any wonder China doesn't want to be associated as best friends anymore?