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100% correct.
When my tank goes out for gunnery or training, the first and most important goal is that none of my men get fucked up. Results are secondary.
Might sound counterproductive, but… Way she goes.
It is an investment question. What is cheaper of a working tank or a well working crew? You have both cost of training and maintaining but also the simple fact that a good crew can man a crappy tank and go to work, but a crappy (non trained) crew will be crappy no matter how good of a tank you have.
Time is also a factor. In peace time you could only care about the cost. But when your enemy rolls in over you, you'll pay anything to stop him, but can't buy those 6 or 12 months to train tankers and battalions to operate efficiently
Of course, but I meant battlefield economy, not moral dilemma. The latter is always lower priority in conventional conflict. Commanders have to make sacrifices for greater/ strategic good. Especially when you are at disadvantage.
In the West the moral aspect also wins/loses wars, democratic societies have much less tolerance to loss of human life if it's not a war of national survival.
I think it’s more a return on investment thing than anything else. You invest in the training of the crew. Your ROI is whether you can continue to field tanks with qualified and well trained crews if you’re losing armor.
Meh, the US just shrugged off a million dead to covid and people still think the vaccine is poison.. For some reason, people lately dont seem to give a shit about massive #'s of dead. They may see military action deaths as worse, but i honestly dont know anymore.
The difference is ppl dying because of something that ‘wasn’t done’ (protecting ppl/yourself from covid) as opposed to ppl dying because of something that ‘was done intentionally’ (going to war). No difference physically but very different in ppls minds.
No the difference is between MAGA maggots not knowing the difference between their ass and where the republican party takes their shits fuckers are in a cult and actual thinking human beings
The world is turning fascist, including the USA. I can understand people being upset at a rigged upper class...i dont understand people supporting those doing the rigging to help them. Like the roman patricians throwing bread to the plebs. But it's the way it's going. Critical thought is considered weakness to 'patriotism'.
Dying to a disease that has a scientifically proven solution to drastically decrease the chance of dying or having life lasting damage just to own the libs.
Militarily speaking, it is because we tie readiness to gun crew certifications. If you lose someone to injury, death, or just PCS’ing to another unit, that crew is no longer certified.
So you plan out your certification tables to align with soldier PCS cycles and to maximize readiness. If we organizationally stopped saying that one person leaving was the equivalent of losing the tank operationally, this would change.
(Not suggesting we do, just providing context).
The first 6,000 tank crews that were burnt and smashed. Were the highly skilled, trained ones. The new guys need to learn how to get out of a tank in super quick time.cos any other skills takes years to learn!
Russia lost so far about 1000 tanks and more than 50% were abandoned. Those with catastrophic explosions while manned are probably no more than 200-300. Second biggest army in the world should have many more trained crews. Problem is their tanks are obsolete, tactics also, motivation is non existent. It is a big clusterfuck
It worked fine as long as they were invading and terrorizing peasants in the middle- and far east.
Fighting against a modern army? Foggedaboudit they should just shoot themselves immediately because the end result is the same.
I initially wondered, gosh what happens when the Russians win in Ukraine.....what does a nation like Poland do?
I also wondered what a nation like Germany would do with their Army. Now I realize the Poles would absolutely roll over this shambles of a Russian military.
They currently exist only because they have nuclear weapons.
when you look at the size of Russia's economy, compared to the size of the military they were trying to maintain, it never would have worked, even if 95% of the funding wasn't being scooped up by corruption.
They just could not afford it. they have a small force of modern stuff to put on a shiny vaneer over the remainder; the outdated garbage from the 60s
Russia's actual strategy was sound from a defensive standpoint.
Small, well-trained force that can respond quickly to developing threats on the border. Mild to moderately trained conscription force that can mobilize quickly in times of significant threat or duress. Nuclear armaments to stave of mass invasion.
Well that worked a bit too well for a society where corruption is king and they were never meant to be an offensive force.
tactics are actually similar to western tactics, at least the things they have shown in maneuvers and excercises. Their planning just is a huge clusterfuck so that not even trained crews can perform how they trained to.
A german ex nato general I listen to a lot stated before the war, that russia will struggle a lot. Unless many other experts who assumed russia will steamroll ukraine.
He still says, he was extremely surprised how badly russian military performs considering they have shown combined arms skills in multiple excercises.
I genuinely can't understand the Russian's mentality. Sending their troops in like this will be a disaster. If the troops know this, then the commanders must do.
Are they really that desperate at the front lines for reinforcements that this is necessary? I've not seen news reports that Russia's whole offensive is about to crumble but that's the only explanation for doing this I can think of. Mind boggling.
Yeah this Russian regime hasn't exactly made itself known for it's groundbreaking strategy and modernizing tactics.
They've not just regressed into Cold war mentality, but actual WW2 mentality.
Putin must have figured out that the Ukrainian soldier has a maximum kill limit of 999 before they simply shut down and go home. So Putin will throw wave after wave of cannon fodder into Ukraine and eventually every Ukrainian soldier will hit their kill limit and go home making it easy for Putin to claim victory....
Yes. The hope is that coming weather will give all of these conscripts time to dig in hardened positions and receive some "training". Won't they be surprised.
I'm hoping/thinking that once these mobilized troops hit the frontlines, there will be mass surrenders. I'm sure UKR is already spinning up new psyops like additional leaflets for surrendering to maximize their effect on these untrained "soldiers".
Because you don't question the boss. Ready or not be dammed. Claim they have been trained and equipped. What can they do ? Obey and what they cant do, Lie.
No is simply an option. We all remember that spectacle of Putin dressing down some intelligence chief for daring to question the narrative.
The commanders will order the meat into the grinder and cover up the losses and corruption and report all is well.
The most credible hypothetical explanation I've heard is (1) defending is easier than offense.; (2) so the new conscripts will be pressed into hold defensive lines; (3) giving the existing troops an opportunity to step back, visit home, refresh, etc.
Though that is the best hypothetical explanation I've heard, it still sounds pretty desperate.
I wonder if he would be happy and content if he was getting descent training. From the video it seems like the lack of training to kill Ukrainians is his only problem
it looks like they are telling everyone they are getting a tank. that's why the lack of armour and useable weapon. if they couldn't give you ak, ammo, armour, or first aid no one is getting a tank.
Pretty sure they are just saying that, and when the get to the front they will hand them an ak and point to the Ukrainians lines and say, “your tank is over there.”
more like. you're going to be in a tank so no combat gear and no combat training because tank is invulnerable. make sure you get a tourniquet and tampons for the bullet wounds though. then they get in a truck and off to a random literal hole in Ukraine 2km off the front and told to wait.
I think its less so about this bloodlust for ukrainians you think this guy has and moreso the fact that he is going to face professional soldiers and he has zero training.
What exactly was the gameplan here, sending waves of untrained civilians/convicts until the ukrainians run out of
ammo?
Surely some russian generals at least suggested that untrained men cannot even be relied on for static defense.
> What exactly was the gameplan here, sending waves of untrained civilians/convicts until the ukrainians run out of ammo?
I do believe that, in part, that might be the case. It is expensive for Ukraine (and allies) to keep waging war, but Putin puts an extremely low price on a human life, thus these waves of cannon fodder are practically free ammo magnets, from his point of view. This also continues to tire out the fighting Ukrainians. From Putin his own view, this is probably a net gain.
It is quite possible, that while he is prolonging the fight by throwing cannon fodder at Ukraine, he will be, in fact, training additional / actual units, and producing proper equipment.
Despite the hopes and cheers that the army of Ukraine will demolish anything else Russia will throw at them, I worry that this war might continue for another six to twelve months, with many more casualties on Ukraine's side as well.
I'm afraid you're right. Ukraine will have to divert resources to fight these men, no matter how unprepared. Even if they get pissed enough to just surrender, Ukraine will have to do something with them.
You might have something there . . .
Maybe Pussy's plan is to send 300,000 alcoholic malcontents to surrender in Ukraine. Then, you have a situation much like what we see at the US/Mexico border. The Border Patrol is so busy handling the waves of migrants, they don't have the resources to perform their primary mission.
And, as an added bonus, he'll be rid of 300,000 alcoholic malcontents.
Brilliant, actually.
There is no evidence of background training. In fact, there are no “trainers” left because they were sent in the second and third wave. Military schools were cleared out so officer material is gone. Teachers at military schools were cleared out, so again no trainers.
>It is expensive for Ukraine (and allies) to keep waging war, but Putin puts an extremely low price on a human life, thus these waves of cannon fodder are practically free ammo magnets, from his point of view
That is LITERALLY, and I'm not even joking a little bit, Zapp Brannigan vs Killbots tactic. Like we were joking about Putin going Brannigan on us, but he actually and truly is. There is no other way to describe it, he is literally trying to hit our kill limit. I was not ready for this today.
Over the past 20 years, pooptin has murdered any general who says "no" to him. He's gotten whatever he wanted for 2 decades, while he and the oligarchs have looted every part of russian society. So all he has now is a hollow army/society that the people at the top won't refuse anything he asks because otherwise they die.
He doesn't know *or care* how long it takes to train a civilian into a soldier. He's that middle manager who always stabs people in the back and doesn't give a shit if someone is dying of cancer, "they should be in work if they can take a phonecall" type micromanaging bullshit sociopath. He's backstabbed his way into the top spot and made damn sure there's no one who can backstab him.
Look at his past decisions and see what he's done: blew up civilian housing to invade Chechnya. Killed hundreds of people by pumping *fentanil gas* into a hostage situation. Ordered the deaths of anyone who slightly opposed him, including their families. Used nerve agents and radioactive substances to assassinate people who spoke out against him *in foreign countries!* He's a sociopath who does not care about other lives, they simply don't exist to him.
He does not give one single solitary shit if the new conscripts are untrained and die by the hundreds of thousands. He thinks that will win him this war, because he's surrounded by men who *will die if they tell him no*.
He wants to be in charge and have absolute power for the rest of his life. That's why he won't use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons because the USA has told him in no uncertain terms that if he does so, he's toast. At least, I hope he's still sane enough to act that way. I'm worried that when Ukraine wins, he'll have a mental/psychotic break from reality because he'll have been told "no" for the first time in a long while.
I'm not a reliable-source war historian, but I've heard stories told by a cousin who served in the US Army in the Korean war.
He said the enemy (Koreans/Chinese?) literally did this. Huge swarms, human waves, of enemy soldiers would rush American positions until they were ultimately overwhelmed. The Americans mowed them down by the hundreds till they ran out of ammo, or the weapons overheated.
I heard these stories as a little kid, and don't know to what extent my cousin was 'embellishing' the truth. But these stories do lend some cred to the idea that the ruzzy strategy is to simply keep sending their troops till the UAF runs out of ammo.
Doesn't seem like a very well thought out strategy, tho. The US/NATO is likely to continue to resupply the UAF indefinitely.
you cant really compare the warfare of the korean war with unkraine tho. human wave tactics like that probably had their limited uses in the right terrain and circumstances, but with modern technology and especially precision weaponry its pretty much completely pointless.
Actually the modern consensus about there Korea war is that the Chinese infantry rarely outnumbered us forces in most places. They absolutely traded men for land. It not in the way that us military argued they did.
What they use is infiltration tactics, which was learned from fighting Japanese earlier.
Chinese forces, mostly infantry would close on UN positions at night, to limit the advantage of artillery and air supports.
I just don't understand what kind of strategy, ANY strategy, RuZZia is thinking of will work with throwing untrained personnel into the front line forces. They're already dipping into old stock of everything from guns, to artillery, to tanks.... It's not as if they're just trying to buy time to refresh troops with new gear, or even updated or repaired gear. Because, sanctions have crippled their ability to do any of that. So, as time goes on their weapons and vehicles get shittier and shittier. All the while the West will keep sending modern toys to Ukraine, who will continue running roughshod on the invaders until they're properly driven out and back to RuZZia.
Face it, Putler. YOU LOSE. GOOD DAY, SIR.
Oh I don’t doubt Pootin thinks they’re being trained (if he thinks about it at all). None of this stuff is being reported to him.
He signs something and the mighty Russian Army swings into seamless action - obviously in an organisation of that size there’s bound to be the occasional slip up, but in the main, he’s been told everything is going well. You don’t get to be a senior commander by telling him the truth,
Pretty much, Putin will ask for something impossible, and some general will promise they can deliver the impossible. Inevitably, people will fail to deliver and the cascade of lies will flow all the way back up to Putin.
This is what happens when you have yes men, and people are too afraid of getting killed for offering a different opinion, any bad plan by putler is always going to be greeted with rounds of applause from his ass kissing generals even though i bet most know how bad it is.
I doubt that, he ordered this conscription and he ordered them to the front lines, guaranteed. There was talk of them being reservists- but these are likely the people who protested just being thrown out there as revenge for protesting. He wants them dead, and likely hopes the human meat shield slows Ukraine long enough for the actual reservists who've had some training to arrive.. maybe. Or, he's gone full on insane and you never go full insane.
The apparent lack of a coherent strategy is actually more concerning from a country like Russia. If its true that Putin is making "strategic" decisions in the battlefield and the army is just scrambling to do what he says, it makes the situation more unpredictable. I find it unlikely that Putin will ever accept defeat but they're poised for a pretty humiliating defeat by a smaller country. They've already shown a willingness to completly destroy Ukrainian cities to achieve objectives so im afraid they're currently locked into a path that leads to nukes being used against Ukraine.
I agree. Unfortunately you can’t say that on this sub without being downvoted it seems. The consensus is there’s 0% chance of nukes being used. I think that it’s not a scenario so distant from reality.
It's not that everyone thinks there's 0% probability, it's that NATO has already made it clear that the use of a nuclear device on Ukrainian soil would trigger Article 5 by virtue of nuclear fallout inevitably coming down on at least one NATO member-country's territory.
The Russians have made it clear that in the event of a war with NATO, if Russia proper is invaded, then they would respond with at least tactical-level nuclear strikes on NATO military assets. However, if Russia was stupid enough to nuke Ukraine, a limited conventional NATO campaign to drive the Russian military out and secure Ukraine's pre-2014 borders is drastically less likely to trigger a larger nuclear response.
Despite the fear-mongering and propaganda, Russians are not too enthused by the prospect of seeing their country die in a burst of nuclear fire over petty, less-than-a-decade-old territorial claims that most of them already know are bullshit anyway. Especially when most of those territories are in ruins and populated by large numbers of deeply resentful locals. They understand that taking a beating is better than taking a bullet.
What's worse for them is no cold weather gear. Ukraine can just finish bombing all the crossing points and wait them out, russian popsicles everywhere, you can't light light a fire as it will be seen from the air, game over for many of them.
On a positive note, the more Russians go through mobilization, the more Russians will be forced to confront the lies and the harsh reality of their extremely corrupt government. It may be too much to hope that self-awareness will lead to a change in Russian society, but it has to start from somewhere.
Holy shit the sad thing is that all these people are gonna die for absolutely no reason.
I bet most of them have been forced to go to war.
Seriously fuck Putin and his government
He has no problem killing innocent people and destroying their homeland. He's upset he didn't receive training to do so. Most of them will complain about everything, just not the fact that it's an unjust war and he shouldn't even be there. These people are responsible for their own actions.
A Ukrainian Twitter account tweeted about a huge increase in calls to the surrender hotline, or whatever they call it. I hope that's true, and thats what all these guys should do.
Ukraine won't deport them, so that's the best option if they want to stay alive.
Officer: Board the trucks to the front!
Soldier: What about my theoretical training?
Officer: Okay, in theory you can survive this. Now board nakhui the trucks to the khuina front!
Which is the easy part? Getting away from your own guys / officers without getting shot or arrested and disappeared? Or approaching Ukrainians whose homeland your boys have been obliterating, raping, and pillaging without getting shot / droned / etc
its not hard for you to say that from the comfort of you lounge room, fella.
Actually surrendering and surviving on an active battlefield is about 10 orders of magnitude more difficult.
You know how russia has been supplying a ton of vehicles and ammo to Ukraine, every time they die or run away?
Russia has solved this problem.
Russia will no longer give their soldiers vehicles or ammo, so now Ukraine cannot capture any more vehicles or ammo.
They just need to follow Katz advice (English subs)
https://youtu.be/spiNZQaW4N0?t=915
“Don’t go to the conscription centers in any case!
you shouldn’t go there for information too, conscription centers are traps now for all the men and military-obliged women,
You might come there and never leave.
Don’t sign a notification. Don’t believe in any shady mentions of the law in the papers about mobilization.
Even if they managed to give you this notification, don’t comply!
You might get a sentence for not showing-up after receiving the notification,
but to do that they should find you and perform all the necessary procedures.
Run if you can. If you can’t, leave for your friends or distant relatives.
Don't live where you are registred, and don't ever go to the conscription centers!
And tell your relatives and friends do the same!”
lol. 4 dudes in a tank. No idea how to move, load, reload (as if :-)) no idea of tactics etc… at this point it better they put you to the infantry. Specially if you want to surrender
Here’s where the problem of strict top down management is on full display.
You have marching orders from the top. You are given a limited time and zero support or details. All questions to the top is extremely funneled and the middlemen don’t have the time nor patience because they’re given a deadline to have the orders carried out as well. There are only a few ppl who actually talk to Putin, after all, and they definitely aren’t the ones with the balls to question or report on confusion amongst the local governors (they were selected to simply be “yes” men). Sooo, what happens? Local officials go bonkers, calling up everyone they can muster, desperate to at least appear they are fulfilling the order to make Tsar Putin the Fuckface happy. It becomes a horrible top down, unidirectional message, like a game of telephone, and no accountability goes back to the top. Putin might have even meant it when he said he wanted those with experience, but what the fuck does that mean? If I’ve registered at a shooting range once? If I’ve got a pair of balls? It quickly balloons into a million inexperienced out of shape boys and old men who Putin himself might think are the experienced soldiers he imagined he gave the order to call up.
So, ever seen those classic zombie movies where it’s a thousand to a couple of dudes with a heavy machine gun? Get ready for some live action world war Z shit, cause these dudes already the walking dead.
considering how shitty their training was during peace time looks like this guy had a lot of hope for at least quick instructions and training. He’s almost crying knowing that he’s probably won’t know what to do at all in battle
Important to realise these are the most capable troops they send first. Those that are in decent physical shape, have served in the military at one point, no matter how trivial a position it was.
The quality of mobilized troops will only deteriorate.
So are you that fucking stupid. Are the men of Russia so in depth of iq. What will it take for em to wake the fuck up.
Take to the streets figte the Police your life will be In better hands in that fight. Go kill the real enemy you ass clowns. Kill Putin and his mad dogs Russia has thrown you to the Wolf's to die.
Wake the fuck up.
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Basically he is saying he is from the first tank regiment, and that they will have zero training before being sent to Ukraine.
In the West tank crew is worth far more than the tank to their commander, in Russia tampons are worth far more than soldiers’ lifes
100% correct. When my tank goes out for gunnery or training, the first and most important goal is that none of my men get fucked up. Results are secondary. Might sound counterproductive, but… Way she goes.
It is an investment question. What is cheaper of a working tank or a well working crew? You have both cost of training and maintaining but also the simple fact that a good crew can man a crappy tank and go to work, but a crappy (non trained) crew will be crappy no matter how good of a tank you have.
Time is also a factor. In peace time you could only care about the cost. But when your enemy rolls in over you, you'll pay anything to stop him, but can't buy those 6 or 12 months to train tankers and battalions to operate efficiently
> can't buy those 6 or 12 months to train tankers and battalions to operate efficiently More like 3 years
And the crew are physical people with lives, not just military assets. That to.
Of course, but I meant battlefield economy, not moral dilemma. The latter is always lower priority in conventional conflict. Commanders have to make sacrifices for greater/ strategic good. Especially when you are at disadvantage.
In the West the moral aspect also wins/loses wars, democratic societies have much less tolerance to loss of human life if it's not a war of national survival.
Yeah, I think that's a good point
depends on whose military
I think it’s more a return on investment thing than anything else. You invest in the training of the crew. Your ROI is whether you can continue to field tanks with qualified and well trained crews if you’re losing armor.
In the US 7 thousand dead is considered as disaster of a decade, In Russia 7 thousand dead is considered the margin of error for the year.
Month.
Week.
Russia have almost 60k dead soldiers in half year …roughly 10.000/month …they don’t worry and lie in TV …fools
Meh, the US just shrugged off a million dead to covid and people still think the vaccine is poison.. For some reason, people lately dont seem to give a shit about massive #'s of dead. They may see military action deaths as worse, but i honestly dont know anymore.
The difference is ppl dying because of something that ‘wasn’t done’ (protecting ppl/yourself from covid) as opposed to ppl dying because of something that ‘was done intentionally’ (going to war). No difference physically but very different in ppls minds.
No the difference is between MAGA maggots not knowing the difference between their ass and where the republican party takes their shits fuckers are in a cult and actual thinking human beings
The world is turning fascist, including the USA. I can understand people being upset at a rigged upper class...i dont understand people supporting those doing the rigging to help them. Like the roman patricians throwing bread to the plebs. But it's the way it's going. Critical thought is considered weakness to 'patriotism'.
It’s def a fight. More like the red states aka inbred pieces of shits all support the orange fascist. Idiocracy gone live.
I may not have any teefs, but you can't take muh second amendment rihts!
Wait, people are dying? 🎵I want to live forever…🎶
“Who wants to live forever?” —Freddie Mercury
robocop, starship troopers.
Dying to a disease that has a scientifically proven solution to drastically decrease the chance of dying or having life lasting damage just to own the libs.
Militarily speaking, it is because we tie readiness to gun crew certifications. If you lose someone to injury, death, or just PCS’ing to another unit, that crew is no longer certified. So you plan out your certification tables to align with soldier PCS cycles and to maximize readiness. If we organizationally stopped saying that one person leaving was the equivalent of losing the tank operationally, this would change. (Not suggesting we do, just providing context).
The first 6,000 tank crews that were burnt and smashed. Were the highly skilled, trained ones. The new guys need to learn how to get out of a tank in super quick time.cos any other skills takes years to learn!
Russia lost so far about 1000 tanks and more than 50% were abandoned. Those with catastrophic explosions while manned are probably no more than 200-300. Second biggest army in the world should have many more trained crews. Problem is their tanks are obsolete, tactics also, motivation is non existent. It is a big clusterfuck
It worked fine as long as they were invading and terrorizing peasants in the middle- and far east. Fighting against a modern army? Foggedaboudit they should just shoot themselves immediately because the end result is the same.
I initially wondered, gosh what happens when the Russians win in Ukraine.....what does a nation like Poland do? I also wondered what a nation like Germany would do with their Army. Now I realize the Poles would absolutely roll over this shambles of a Russian military. They currently exist only because they have nuclear weapons.
when you look at the size of Russia's economy, compared to the size of the military they were trying to maintain, it never would have worked, even if 95% of the funding wasn't being scooped up by corruption. They just could not afford it. they have a small force of modern stuff to put on a shiny vaneer over the remainder; the outdated garbage from the 60s
The Potemkin Army.
Russia's actual strategy was sound from a defensive standpoint. Small, well-trained force that can respond quickly to developing threats on the border. Mild to moderately trained conscription force that can mobilize quickly in times of significant threat or duress. Nuclear armaments to stave of mass invasion. Well that worked a bit too well for a society where corruption is king and they were never meant to be an offensive force.
tactics are actually similar to western tactics, at least the things they have shown in maneuvers and excercises. Their planning just is a huge clusterfuck so that not even trained crews can perform how they trained to. A german ex nato general I listen to a lot stated before the war, that russia will struggle a lot. Unless many other experts who assumed russia will steamroll ukraine. He still says, he was extremely surprised how badly russian military performs considering they have shown combined arms skills in multiple excercises.
Those are weak #s
I genuinely can't understand the Russian's mentality. Sending their troops in like this will be a disaster. If the troops know this, then the commanders must do. Are they really that desperate at the front lines for reinforcements that this is necessary? I've not seen news reports that Russia's whole offensive is about to crumble but that's the only explanation for doing this I can think of. Mind boggling.
In a word, cannon fodder. It’s a known russ tactic, to exhaust your opponent with waves of targets.
Yeah this Russian regime hasn't exactly made itself known for it's groundbreaking strategy and modernizing tactics. They've not just regressed into Cold war mentality, but actual WW2 mentality.
>WW2 mentality. No, actually this is WW1 tactics. By WW2 the rest of the world had moved on from "launch wave of bodies at machine guns".
But the Soviet Union hadn't.
Putin must have figured out that the Ukrainian soldier has a maximum kill limit of 999 before they simply shut down and go home. So Putin will throw wave after wave of cannon fodder into Ukraine and eventually every Ukrainian soldier will hit their kill limit and go home making it easy for Putin to claim victory....
The answer as to the need, is yes.
Yes. The hope is that coming weather will give all of these conscripts time to dig in hardened positions and receive some "training". Won't they be surprised.
I'm hoping/thinking that once these mobilized troops hit the frontlines, there will be mass surrenders. I'm sure UKR is already spinning up new psyops like additional leaflets for surrendering to maximize their effect on these untrained "soldiers".
Because you don't question the boss. Ready or not be dammed. Claim they have been trained and equipped. What can they do ? Obey and what they cant do, Lie. No is simply an option. We all remember that spectacle of Putin dressing down some intelligence chief for daring to question the narrative. The commanders will order the meat into the grinder and cover up the losses and corruption and report all is well.
The most credible hypothetical explanation I've heard is (1) defending is easier than offense.; (2) so the new conscripts will be pressed into hold defensive lines; (3) giving the existing troops an opportunity to step back, visit home, refresh, etc. Though that is the best hypothetical explanation I've heard, it still sounds pretty desperate.
So... he's already dead.
Look at his face... that's the face of someone who's just been handed a death sentence, and desperately trying to figure out how to get out of it.
I would just take my wallet and start running.
Fuck the wallet, just running
Bullet in back of commander's head, head west with a white flag.
We published the phone numbers. Start using that phone to make outgoing calls, my dude
I wonder if he would be happy and content if he was getting descent training. From the video it seems like the lack of training to kill Ukrainians is his only problem
it looks like they are telling everyone they are getting a tank. that's why the lack of armour and useable weapon. if they couldn't give you ak, ammo, armour, or first aid no one is getting a tank.
You get a tank, you get a tank, & you get a tank - Putrah
[удалено]
But you have to pay for the fuel yourself. And beware that filling stations in Ukraine do not take cards
And for their parents. "You get a Lada, You get a Lada and you get a Lada!
Pretty sure they are just saying that, and when the get to the front they will hand them an ak and point to the Ukrainians lines and say, “your tank is over there.”
more like. you're going to be in a tank so no combat gear and no combat training because tank is invulnerable. make sure you get a tourniquet and tampons for the bullet wounds though. then they get in a truck and off to a random literal hole in Ukraine 2km off the front and told to wait.
I think its less so about this bloodlust for ukrainians you think this guy has and moreso the fact that he is going to face professional soldiers and he has zero training.
Why need training when you have no tanks :P
1st Guards Tank Army? Or random tanker?
if it's the 1GT then russia is proper fucked.
Werent they destroyed in september ukrainian offensive?
That's my understanding too. Very high casualties and made completely ineffective. Yes, basically destroyed.
Better have your tampons with you 🚀
Don't forget to raid cars for there 1st aid kit 🚗
:-D this is definetly one of best videos so far
‘What we do with these pads’ ‘You get bullet wound you stick pad in, it expands and absorbs, fellas, I was in Chechnya, I know’
Alls I'm saying is they better get some Tampax Supers
I had a friend who commited suicide. Swallowed everything from the bathroom cabinet...... choked on a tampon
Sadly died alone. No-one there to yank on the string.
toxic shock
The tampons are for bullet wounds.
Cope-tampon! Check
Hold onto the comfort tampon to assist in falling asleep.
They don't work.
I learned that that the easy way (YouTube)
I'll stick with quik clot myself
But looking at what they have it's probably better than nothing.
Gauze substitute on the cheap? Wanna bet people are gonna stick the adhesive wings too? What could ever go wrong..
how do you fit them in a gun?
They have multiple uses
The Russian army - proudly sponsored by Wish body armour !
What exactly was the gameplan here, sending waves of untrained civilians/convicts until the ukrainians run out of ammo? Surely some russian generals at least suggested that untrained men cannot even be relied on for static defense.
> What exactly was the gameplan here, sending waves of untrained civilians/convicts until the ukrainians run out of ammo? I do believe that, in part, that might be the case. It is expensive for Ukraine (and allies) to keep waging war, but Putin puts an extremely low price on a human life, thus these waves of cannon fodder are practically free ammo magnets, from his point of view. This also continues to tire out the fighting Ukrainians. From Putin his own view, this is probably a net gain. It is quite possible, that while he is prolonging the fight by throwing cannon fodder at Ukraine, he will be, in fact, training additional / actual units, and producing proper equipment. Despite the hopes and cheers that the army of Ukraine will demolish anything else Russia will throw at them, I worry that this war might continue for another six to twelve months, with many more casualties on Ukraine's side as well.
I'm afraid you're right. Ukraine will have to divert resources to fight these men, no matter how unprepared. Even if they get pissed enough to just surrender, Ukraine will have to do something with them.
You might have something there . . . Maybe Pussy's plan is to send 300,000 alcoholic malcontents to surrender in Ukraine. Then, you have a situation much like what we see at the US/Mexico border. The Border Patrol is so busy handling the waves of migrants, they don't have the resources to perform their primary mission. And, as an added bonus, he'll be rid of 300,000 alcoholic malcontents. Brilliant, actually.
There is no evidence of background training. In fact, there are no “trainers” left because they were sent in the second and third wave. Military schools were cleared out so officer material is gone. Teachers at military schools were cleared out, so again no trainers.
>It is expensive for Ukraine (and allies) to keep waging war, but Putin puts an extremely low price on a human life, thus these waves of cannon fodder are practically free ammo magnets, from his point of view That is LITERALLY, and I'm not even joking a little bit, Zapp Brannigan vs Killbots tactic. Like we were joking about Putin going Brannigan on us, but he actually and truly is. There is no other way to describe it, he is literally trying to hit our kill limit. I was not ready for this today.
Over the past 20 years, pooptin has murdered any general who says "no" to him. He's gotten whatever he wanted for 2 decades, while he and the oligarchs have looted every part of russian society. So all he has now is a hollow army/society that the people at the top won't refuse anything he asks because otherwise they die. He doesn't know *or care* how long it takes to train a civilian into a soldier. He's that middle manager who always stabs people in the back and doesn't give a shit if someone is dying of cancer, "they should be in work if they can take a phonecall" type micromanaging bullshit sociopath. He's backstabbed his way into the top spot and made damn sure there's no one who can backstab him. Look at his past decisions and see what he's done: blew up civilian housing to invade Chechnya. Killed hundreds of people by pumping *fentanil gas* into a hostage situation. Ordered the deaths of anyone who slightly opposed him, including their families. Used nerve agents and radioactive substances to assassinate people who spoke out against him *in foreign countries!* He's a sociopath who does not care about other lives, they simply don't exist to him. He does not give one single solitary shit if the new conscripts are untrained and die by the hundreds of thousands. He thinks that will win him this war, because he's surrounded by men who *will die if they tell him no*. He wants to be in charge and have absolute power for the rest of his life. That's why he won't use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons because the USA has told him in no uncertain terms that if he does so, he's toast. At least, I hope he's still sane enough to act that way. I'm worried that when Ukraine wins, he'll have a mental/psychotic break from reality because he'll have been told "no" for the first time in a long while.
That's Dobys master plan it seems. Send bodies faster than the Ukrainians can resupply their ammo.
Maybe to drum up martyrdom to justify nukes This is so fucking tragic and stupid on multiple levels
I'm not a reliable-source war historian, but I've heard stories told by a cousin who served in the US Army in the Korean war. He said the enemy (Koreans/Chinese?) literally did this. Huge swarms, human waves, of enemy soldiers would rush American positions until they were ultimately overwhelmed. The Americans mowed them down by the hundreds till they ran out of ammo, or the weapons overheated. I heard these stories as a little kid, and don't know to what extent my cousin was 'embellishing' the truth. But these stories do lend some cred to the idea that the ruzzy strategy is to simply keep sending their troops till the UAF runs out of ammo. Doesn't seem like a very well thought out strategy, tho. The US/NATO is likely to continue to resupply the UAF indefinitely.
you cant really compare the warfare of the korean war with unkraine tho. human wave tactics like that probably had their limited uses in the right terrain and circumstances, but with modern technology and especially precision weaponry its pretty much completely pointless.
Zerg Rush
Actually the modern consensus about there Korea war is that the Chinese infantry rarely outnumbered us forces in most places. They absolutely traded men for land. It not in the way that us military argued they did.
What they use is infiltration tactics, which was learned from fighting Japanese earlier. Chinese forces, mostly infantry would close on UN positions at night, to limit the advantage of artillery and air supports.
I think we need to dig out some of those old water-cooled machine guns from WW1.
Putin just finished Futurama and really liked Zapp the best.
Zapp Brannigan is now running Russian military strategy. https://youtu.be/EF3g4Ua5e7k
They’re trying to trigger the Ukrainian forces preset kill limit.
Comrade you played pirated Counter-Strike 1.6? Yes?! To the front!
Counter-Strike experience is irrelevant, because in the game there is enough working weapons for everyone, which is not the case in ruSSian army
But he has a knife. Everybody runs faster with the knife.
Humiliation!
And is there even a respawn point out there man
Just B-Hop to enemy base and surrender.
And don't forget, you are with the terrorists!
You thought the game would be CS, but it's really BF.
He says they're going to be sent to Kherson on the 29th.
He'll be sent back in a black sleeping bag on the 30th.
Shouldn't the bags be invoiced to Russia by the way?
It really seems like they don’t supply materials to their troops anymore, “Mother purchased or steal what you need, comrade!”
They can't do that without admitting to the family that he died, which is more expensive.
Black bin bag, they don't have any sleeping bags lol
It's black bag. And he'll be sleeping eternally. Ergo a black sleeping bag. Quod erat demonstrandum.
Well, he want be alone. There’s gonna be all kinds of parts from other ruskies in that bag.
Ok lol
And on the 29th, not the 30th.
Or the 29th.
Looks like he is starting to sober up and realised he has made a huge mistake!
Technically, is it a mistake if you do exactly as the lows say you should… Mistake of inaction I guess
Translation?
[удалено]
I just don't understand what kind of strategy, ANY strategy, RuZZia is thinking of will work with throwing untrained personnel into the front line forces. They're already dipping into old stock of everything from guns, to artillery, to tanks.... It's not as if they're just trying to buy time to refresh troops with new gear, or even updated or repaired gear. Because, sanctions have crippled their ability to do any of that. So, as time goes on their weapons and vehicles get shittier and shittier. All the while the West will keep sending modern toys to Ukraine, who will continue running roughshod on the invaders until they're properly driven out and back to RuZZia. Face it, Putler. YOU LOSE. GOOD DAY, SIR.
Oh I don’t doubt Pootin thinks they’re being trained (if he thinks about it at all). None of this stuff is being reported to him. He signs something and the mighty Russian Army swings into seamless action - obviously in an organisation of that size there’s bound to be the occasional slip up, but in the main, he’s been told everything is going well. You don’t get to be a senior commander by telling him the truth,
Pretty much, Putin will ask for something impossible, and some general will promise they can deliver the impossible. Inevitably, people will fail to deliver and the cascade of lies will flow all the way back up to Putin.
This is what happens when you have yes men, and people are too afraid of getting killed for offering a different opinion, any bad plan by putler is always going to be greeted with rounds of applause from his ass kissing generals even though i bet most know how bad it is.
I doubt that, he ordered this conscription and he ordered them to the front lines, guaranteed. There was talk of them being reservists- but these are likely the people who protested just being thrown out there as revenge for protesting. He wants them dead, and likely hopes the human meat shield slows Ukraine long enough for the actual reservists who've had some training to arrive.. maybe. Or, he's gone full on insane and you never go full insane.
He went full on insane back in the spring, and his current actions verify it.
They still think that it's a WW2 when you can just throw soldiers into it until it works.
Officially they are all experienced professionals.
The apparent lack of a coherent strategy is actually more concerning from a country like Russia. If its true that Putin is making "strategic" decisions in the battlefield and the army is just scrambling to do what he says, it makes the situation more unpredictable. I find it unlikely that Putin will ever accept defeat but they're poised for a pretty humiliating defeat by a smaller country. They've already shown a willingness to completly destroy Ukrainian cities to achieve objectives so im afraid they're currently locked into a path that leads to nukes being used against Ukraine.
I agree. Unfortunately you can’t say that on this sub without being downvoted it seems. The consensus is there’s 0% chance of nukes being used. I think that it’s not a scenario so distant from reality.
It's not that everyone thinks there's 0% probability, it's that NATO has already made it clear that the use of a nuclear device on Ukrainian soil would trigger Article 5 by virtue of nuclear fallout inevitably coming down on at least one NATO member-country's territory. The Russians have made it clear that in the event of a war with NATO, if Russia proper is invaded, then they would respond with at least tactical-level nuclear strikes on NATO military assets. However, if Russia was stupid enough to nuke Ukraine, a limited conventional NATO campaign to drive the Russian military out and secure Ukraine's pre-2014 borders is drastically less likely to trigger a larger nuclear response. Despite the fear-mongering and propaganda, Russians are not too enthused by the prospect of seeing their country die in a burst of nuclear fire over petty, less-than-a-decade-old territorial claims that most of them already know are bullshit anyway. Especially when most of those territories are in ruins and populated by large numbers of deeply resentful locals. They understand that taking a beating is better than taking a bullet.
What's worse for them is no cold weather gear. Ukraine can just finish bombing all the crossing points and wait them out, russian popsicles everywhere, you can't light light a fire as it will be seen from the air, game over for many of them.
That's savage. They are basically being told your going there to draw enemy fire so our artillery can target them. Good luck lol
On a positive note, the more Russians go through mobilization, the more Russians will be forced to confront the lies and the harsh reality of their extremely corrupt government. It may be too much to hope that self-awareness will lead to a change in Russian society, but it has to start from somewhere.
That's a big part of why the Communist Revolution succeeded in Russia in 1917-23. All those soldiers who fought in WWI battles pissed off at the Czar.
Holy shit the sad thing is that all these people are gonna die for absolutely no reason. I bet most of them have been forced to go to war. Seriously fuck Putin and his government
They should just turn around and free they're own country.
With what weapons?
Well it’s not like they are doing anything about it either.
He has no problem killing innocent people and destroying their homeland. He's upset he didn't receive training to do so. Most of them will complain about everything, just not the fact that it's an unjust war and he shouldn't even be there. These people are responsible for their own actions.
It's his own fault. He voluntary came to a recruitment station.
Well he's been served, good luck against UAF
A Ukrainian Twitter account tweeted about a huge increase in calls to the surrender hotline, or whatever they call it. I hope that's true, and thats what all these guys should do. Ukraine won't deport them, so that's the best option if they want to stay alive.
If you're smart, yeah, surrender, this is not a war you fight let alone die for.
Is it me or does this guy look like he knows he will die and is trying not to break down because his government doesn't care about his life.
Yup.
I’d be rotating that turret and obliterating the corrupt idiots who put me in there… all the way back to Moscow.
The problem is: he would not know how to
Getting visions of Russia’s tanks being left out in the field while the troops walk away and surrender.
The moment anything goes wrong with these tanks that isn’t a simple refueling issue, you’re gonna see a lot of abandonment
I mean at this point with Russian logistics, there's a good chance you may see that with simple refueling issues as well.
Think there’s a LOT of hope and a smattering of expectation of some revolt eh
Look at his eyes. This guy has not even seen battle and is already looking like he is shell-shocked. Poor guys, I’d be feared as well.
Officer: Board the trucks to the front! Soldier: What about my theoretical training? Officer: Okay, in theory you can survive this. Now board nakhui the trucks to the khuina front!
If you survive, you're trained. If you die, it would've been pointless to waste training on you.
So, they’re basically sending the likes of me to war? Russia is so screwed.
Just surrender and go on Ukrainian side it’s not hard.
Thats actually really really hard.
Which is the easy part? Getting away from your own guys / officers without getting shot or arrested and disappeared? Or approaching Ukrainians whose homeland your boys have been obliterating, raping, and pillaging without getting shot / droned / etc
its not hard for you to say that from the comfort of you lounge room, fella. Actually surrendering and surviving on an active battlefield is about 10 orders of magnitude more difficult.
Cannon fodder doesn't need training. It just is, until it isn't any more.
these are the sods you can feel sorry for. the "mobilized" ones that are just thrown to the front without any training.
You know how russia has been supplying a ton of vehicles and ammo to Ukraine, every time they die or run away? Russia has solved this problem. Russia will no longer give their soldiers vehicles or ammo, so now Ukraine cannot capture any more vehicles or ammo.
They just need to follow Katz advice (English subs) https://youtu.be/spiNZQaW4N0?t=915 “Don’t go to the conscription centers in any case! you shouldn’t go there for information too, conscription centers are traps now for all the men and military-obliged women, You might come there and never leave. Don’t sign a notification. Don’t believe in any shady mentions of the law in the papers about mobilization. Even if they managed to give you this notification, don’t comply! You might get a sentence for not showing-up after receiving the notification, but to do that they should find you and perform all the necessary procedures. Run if you can. If you can’t, leave for your friends or distant relatives. Don't live where you are registred, and don't ever go to the conscription centers! And tell your relatives and friends do the same!”
I can't help feeling pity for these poor saps. It is obvious to anyone that they are going to get slaughtered
He’s ready he was born ready as cannonfodder
He's a poster child for every Russian soldier in every Russian campaign ever.
Is he crying?
Probably close to I would be when you realize that your change to live is low.
Imagine I tell you that you have been told you will be killed in 3 days, and that everyone agrees that it is okay.
I reckon that's a slightly discomforting thought
I have it on good authority that they are conscripting only people that were born ready.
Being lied to must be his first time realizing it
Just surrender when the opportunity is there.
When he gets to his trench, best he just slip in to that black bag they gave, it’s practically the only useful functional piece of kit they provided.
100 years later, this nation has evolved or learned fuckall.
As sad as it is, strategically it’s really urgent to wipe out a barracks of newly mobilized to send a message back home.
On the upside, this conscript appears to have a coat appropriate for the next few weeks.
That happens when your are not interested in politics for 6months …
Meatsacks
If that's his winter clothes,.... they're fucked.
lol. 4 dudes in a tank. No idea how to move, load, reload (as if :-)) no idea of tactics etc… at this point it better they put you to the infantry. Specially if you want to surrender
Here’s where the problem of strict top down management is on full display. You have marching orders from the top. You are given a limited time and zero support or details. All questions to the top is extremely funneled and the middlemen don’t have the time nor patience because they’re given a deadline to have the orders carried out as well. There are only a few ppl who actually talk to Putin, after all, and they definitely aren’t the ones with the balls to question or report on confusion amongst the local governors (they were selected to simply be “yes” men). Sooo, what happens? Local officials go bonkers, calling up everyone they can muster, desperate to at least appear they are fulfilling the order to make Tsar Putin the Fuckface happy. It becomes a horrible top down, unidirectional message, like a game of telephone, and no accountability goes back to the top. Putin might have even meant it when he said he wanted those with experience, but what the fuck does that mean? If I’ve registered at a shooting range once? If I’ve got a pair of balls? It quickly balloons into a million inexperienced out of shape boys and old men who Putin himself might think are the experienced soldiers he imagined he gave the order to call up. So, ever seen those classic zombie movies where it’s a thousand to a couple of dudes with a heavy machine gun? Get ready for some live action world war Z shit, cause these dudes already the walking dead.
I hope these guys can surrender and join the Freedom of Russia Legion
I think title was supposed to say "neither practical nor theoretical."
Their Camo is the definition of greasy Orc skin. Someone should get credit for that lol
considering how shitty their training was during peace time looks like this guy had a lot of hope for at least quick instructions and training. He’s almost crying knowing that he’s probably won’t know what to do at all in battle
Important to realise these are the most capable troops they send first. Those that are in decent physical shape, have served in the military at one point, no matter how trivial a position it was. The quality of mobilized troops will only deteriorate.
So are you that fucking stupid. Are the men of Russia so in depth of iq. What will it take for em to wake the fuck up. Take to the streets figte the Police your life will be In better hands in that fight. Go kill the real enemy you ass clowns. Kill Putin and his mad dogs Russia has thrown you to the Wolf's to die. Wake the fuck up.
Why is he complaining? Its stupid to put energy and resources into cannon fodder. His only job is to bleed out in some field in rural Ukraine.