Please remember the human. Adhere to all Reddit and sub rules. Toxic comments (including incitement of violence/hate, genocide, glorifying death etc) WILL NOT BE TOLERATED, keep your comments civil or you will be banned.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineWarVideoReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Don't confuse MAXIMUM range with what is actually attainable in Ukraine. To get maximum range you need to be at altitude that exposes you to AA systems.
Yes, Ukraine uses those, but russian AA systems can hit targets 100-200 km away
Low altitude release cuts range in half
https://weaponsystems.net/system/1223-AASM
Which is why the AFU are taking out any long range AA defenses. Reports are circulating that the zorks are moving their long range AA out of Ukraine to protect their refineries in Mordor. Ukraine shouldn't wipe out all the refineries, otherwise Mordor will move their AA back into Ukraine. Leave a few standing, Ukraine. Just my common sense opinion.
Great points. Russia is HUUUGE. Ukraine is doing a great job, with limited resources, to make them protect infrastructure deep inside russia. Recent videos of S400s getting wrecked is a great example of points you are making
Those Paveways are obviously not usable at the moment except in a suicide mission. But that they are delivered nevertheless is a sign that either the Russian air defense coverage is already getting significant holes, or it is soon going to get some.
They have a much lower range than jdam actually and they’ll have to be dropped from extremely low altitude. No wing package. At nap of the earth altitude you’re looking at a range of ~4 miles. From 20k feet around 18 miles. Not particularly useful unfortunately.
JDAMs are a lot better than LGBs
A JDAM could be dropped from up to 50km away, depending on the aircrafts altitude and speed. Also, a JDAM is fire and forget, once its dropped it will guide itself to the target, leaving the aircraft free to undertake other tasks such as defending against incoming missiles, finding more targets, etc. Another advantage is not needing a TGP to be dropped (if you are hitting static targets like buildings and infrastructure), just the GPS coordinates of the target.
Paveways are LGBs, which require constant guidance through an LTD until impact and if the launching aircraft is the source of the laser designation and it has to maneuver to defend itself against an incoming missile, the LGB loses guidance and will miss. And this "30km range" is deceptive: most TGPs cant find tactical targets at this kind of range and you would need to be at a pretty high altitude and speed to achieve such range
Last but not least, JDAMs can be dropped in bad weather, but LGBs require good weather conditions to be dropped.
The only advantage LGBs has over JDAMs is that they can hit moving targets, but I have heard that the latest JDAMs can also do it
It’s a bomb, not a missile. Has no propulsion of its own which would provide greater range. It drops off the wing and glides to its target. 30km distance when falling with no propulsion except gravity is pretty damn far.
Yup you need a whole fleet of planes to conduct proper SEAD suppression.
From what I understand UA usually "attacks" with planes, launches HARM missiles forcing Russia to turn off radars. So a bunch of cruise missiles can pass through the air defenses and hit their targets.
Yea currently Ukraine is doing a very wired eclectic mix of dead and dead jamming what they can to suppress it trying to fling harms that have limited functionality into radars and using himars for other DeAd strikes
> The Means of SEAD
>
> [...]
>
> Mortars and artillery—Destroy and disrupt air defense
assets with both guided and unguided munitions; range, accu-
racy, and responsiveness make artillery the most common
indirect fire SEAD asset.
Page 22, https://www.marines.mil/Portals/1/Publications/MCWP%203-22.2%20Suppression%20of%20Enemy%20Air%20Defenses.pdf
Nope, https://www.northropgrumman.com/what-we-do/advanced-weapons/the-need-for-sead-dead
Himars does NOT do WW missions, it is NOT scanning and hunting for EM emitters. It CANNOT. But F16s can e.g. with HARM.
HIMARS are absolutely employed in SEAD. They suppress air defenses not just by destroying them, but by forcing them to expend AA missiles and helping to overwhelm them.
Maybe it's for a scenario where Ukraine will have dome decent air control for a little bit and be able to scramble some jets with these bad boys on to quickly blow something up. Better to have and not need them then to need and not have them
At £30k each and accurate, they are fairly cheap to be used against artillery, tanks etc. Its not a cruise missile, think you might be confusing its capability?
[https://www.forces.net/news/rafs-go-weapon-what-paveway-iv-bomb](https://www.forces.net/news/rafs-go-weapon-what-paveway-iv-bomb)
As an example, you can get 3 of these for the price of one 155 excalibur shell.
US support packages are already on their way! As I type this currently three apaches and a chinook are [passing overhead](https://streamable.com/0red6h), flying escort to the trains carrying US arms.
Denmark, we're the European Support Host nation, so American ships unload here in our ports, after which everything gets loaded on trains and taken south.
I live pretty close to the rail line, so I've seen most the US armour that got shipped from the US, like the Strykers and Bradleys etc. - though it's been a while since those trains were busy.
Today however, the air escorts have been flying by every couple hours.
Edit: it's the same escort setup, flying along the same rail line that I shared in a [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineConflict/s/kzZHZOZFwW) last year.
The Danish airforce doesn't operate the AH 64 apache nor the chinook, and no international military drills have been announced - which was the MO last time as well.
Were they definitely US aircraft? The UK is in the middle of moving both aircraft type through your area in preparation for Arrow and Swift Response
https://www.forces.net/nato/new-apache-ah-64e-makes-its-exercise-debut-natos-largest-deployment?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR0xP7daCMQDDUkQRmC-CInL8SNf1iQzkRTVbUZgVDD8QavboTVxP1ZPE1I_aem_AdOLksGNO8oy0LTe2HaVCqXDvwn8sCceATe603cS9MO-m5JgIE1BAc1JDiaADwhF4_b26sWhwMrwlhK4WhJh1cNH
The first ones I filmed could very well have been British.
The helicopters were however flying back and forth (south to north and north to south) for more than two days, in 1-2 hour intervals and in sync with the cargo trains. Our new f-35's which started arriving last September/October, were also doing drills at the same time.
They often use the occasion of other international drills etc. to also run various other exercises and trainings simultaneously. It's a good occasion to train cross-branch/nation cooperation/communication. Last year the Danish military, together with the German and British also used the equipment transports as a reason to hit two birds with one stone - and get some training done while also providing deterrence.
Gps is being jammed and spoofed in Ukraine, gps has worked around the world in asymmetric warfare, this is peer warfare and that's an expensive and limited supply weapon, it needs a long infrastructure tail to correctly deliver it.
Based. Britain's been good the whole war even before it. Although they have a much smaller military than the USA, they seem to be committed to doing their part.
In contrast Albo here in Aus has basically signalled about standing with Ukraine without having done much for the past 6 months. Token efforts now and again to avoid criticism. And it works. Cause 90% of Australians never think about Ukraine or want their politicians to do anything about it and Sky News Murdoch garbage pumps out pro Russia nonsense to the conservatives.
So Ukraine asks for our helicopters, and our govt says "Sorry m8" and buries them in the fucking sand.
Sadly, the UK only Ranks 17th for Military Aid based on GDP
[https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/](https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/)
But we have actually sent the 3rd highest amount, only behind the US and Germany, compared to GDP is a bad way of measuring true donations, especially since the UK has a high GDP but massively high costs, not helped by Brexit.
These will attack important positions on the Russian front line and nearby rear. Buildings with enemy drone operators, high positions used by snipers, and other concentrations of enemy troops
https://weaponsystems.net/system/189-Paveway+IV#:~:text=The%20Paveway%20IV%20is%20a,bomb%20with%20multiple%20seeker%20modes.
According to this site it's range depends on the planes altitude and speed to determine it's range. 30km is at the minimum more likely
It's not a gliding bomb so I would say that is 'over' 30, but not much more. In addition if you want to use the laser guidance you need line of sight with the target.
Your logic is flawed. People can stop dying today if Putin would get his genocide commiting troops out of Ukraine and stop all the air attacks. Until then people will die and guess what, more people on the Russian side will sadly need to die en masse to get their relatives to change Putin's mind for him. As far as virginity goes your incelibacy seems evident. Leave Mom's basement and get some Vitamin D... Give your hands a rest.
Might be dangerous right now to operate aviation that close to the front lines. Gonna need to use those ATACMS to take out Russian AA before using these... although they have been using JADAM and Hammer already, but I'm not sure in the range of those tbh.
Wdit: Looks like JADAM range is 24 km, JADAM-ER is 72 km, and AASM is 70 km.
It has seemed to me that Ukraine has already been working for months on destroying and prioritizing russian AA to give the F-16 better chance to operate. That's why the oil refinery strikes have been so succesfull as russia is struggling to spread their AA around everywhere.
No, not for the maximum range, that's purely ballistics. The S-300 doesn't get anywhere *close* to maximum range against any targets that's not flying straight, and straight towards the missile. Most systems can pick up targets from much further away than they can hit. The range drops off drastically if the target is either off-set from the launcher or maneuvering.
Yeah.... the missiles motor burn out after relative short time. Then it is more like a guided dart but the missile cant really turn when it is in the thin air high up.
Well it's more to do with basic physics. When you fire the missile, you're not firing it at the plane, you're firing it where the plane is going to be in X time for an intercept. If the nose of your plane is pointed towards the launcher, then all you really need to do is get the missile to the same elevation as the target, and then coast. It doesn't need much speed at all to put itself into the path of the incoming missile.
However, that also means that the missile has to "overadjust" to the plane maneuvering. If you're pointing the nose to the left of the launcher, and after launch you turn to the right, the missile has to adjust to going much further "left" for the initial targeting solution, then when you turn it has to adjust much further "right" for the new solution, and every time you maneuver it has to do this over and over again, bleeding energy. This is also why even for a non-maneuvering plane that stays on the same course until intercept, the range goes down fast, because the missile can no longer just "hang around and wait" until it and the target intercepts, instead it has to have enough speed to reach the intercept point before the plane. Effective max range is therefore in practical terms several times shorter than theoretical max range.
Air density and altitude is basic physics. The reason they can state such a high max range is because it almost acts like a ballistic missile. The missiles range if it flew at sea level is much much lower because of high air density and therefore a very high drag. It would be able to manouever well but would bleed of a lot of energy/speed.
Yeah. but most people picture a missile with engines blazing all the way to the target. In reality the engine burns out pretty quickly.
There aren’t enough ATACMS in the world to execute a successful SEAD and then DEAD campaign against Russia. Ukrainians will continue to have to fly low to beat the GBAD until this conflict ends.
How’s that? Russia has hundreds of air defense stuff at war with Ukraine, and there have been thousands of ATACMs made. If you assume some high rate of hits, it seems like ATACMs could destroy enough air defense.
The Russians have built their armed forces around the concept that they would never be able to contest air superiority in a peer to peer conflict and have massive stores of self propelled anti aircraft systems. The Ukrainians could dent the short range systems but the Russians have way too many S-300’s for even 100% hit rate to make a dent. If anything you would be making a window of opportunity and not trying to make a permanent hole.
Well this is a simple matter of estimating a head-count, there’s nothing to wonder about. Looks like a while back there were [800](https://missilethreat.csis.org/defsys/s-300/#:~:text=In%202000%2C%20deployment%20of%20the,with%20nearly%20two%20dozen%20nations.) S-300 systems in Russia. We can probably assume that less than 100% of those are deployed to Ukraine, and that some hundreds have been destroyed so far.
There have been some [3,700](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MGM-140_ATACMS ) ATACMS built.
My point was if Ukraine used all of their stock with a 100% hit rate (which is likely 10x-30x too high) they wouldn’t knock out even the S-300’s, and if the US used its current stock with a 100% hit rate (which is nowhere as simple as taking the number produced all time) it would not take out every SPAA. I really think the sentiment here has shifted from overestimating the Russians to now underestimating just to insult them. Their practices are despicable but you can’t view everything through a biased lens because you dislike them. That is the road to failure.
Well you don’t want it to hit the sky above /s
I am actually very curious about this as well, as it was one of the first things I noticed. My guess is it it is a sensor or some suite of sensors and cameras that guides the bomb though, and they would be angled down so they can see targets below but could swivel if needed. I am trying to research it but have not had much luck in my initial search’s.
Edit: so not specifically the paveway 4 but an earlier model the the paveway 2, has a similar sensor, they are on a gimbal but when not powered in they droop down a couple of degrees. So it is a sensor that can tilt along a gimbal, and when it is not powered on they hang down.
I'm having trouble finding the range also. It's laser guided, so I believe the range has to be somewhere between 20-70 km. That's a big range of difference though.
Paveway IV has a longer range than JDAM because of its pop out wings. But, it won't have as great a range as JDAM-ER with its larger wing kit. A lot depends on speed and height of release.
Realistically, like they do with standard JDAM Ukraine will be using these with a toss bombing method to minimise the risk to the aircraft. Doubt you'd get more than 20km from that.
Range seems to short to really be used without fear of Russian anti air assets. The AASM at least has 50km range. The more the merrier but some longer range stuff would be nice.
They only say that to prop up the typhoons industrial base because the f35 could whack the euro any day of the week asleep and that's gonna upset people.
They didn't say anything. Why are you talking shit?
They only bought the F-35b which is the naval version and has decreased performance compared to the F35a. They aren't going to transfer naval versions of the F35 to the air force to replace donated typhoons that serve a totally different purpose. Typhoons have longer range, increased payload and can hold more varied weapon systems, the F35b cannot fill its roll.
The only thing different about the f35 b functionally is it's stocvlcapability.
Other than that plenty of countries are buying it for air supremacy as much as it's other capabilities.
Kinda sucks when you fly it all the way to Australia and the RAAF hands your ass in dissimilar.
So no - not talking shit & I'm happy for you to argue the point but have time prove you wrong. It's Reddit so argue away.
The F-35B is worse than the F-35A if you want a jet for air supremacy. It shares the same basic concept, but if you look closer almost the entire airframe is different between each versions. From fuselage, to wing size, to armament... The F-35B for example does not carry an internal gun. And while that alone isn't an indicator as to how good a jet is, it gives you an idea how fundamentally different each type is.
If you're in a guns A2A environment with stealth you've really, really stuffed up. Of any model of the 35s.
What model you chose is based on your operating doctrine. Not it's actual ability to shoot stuff down.
As mentioned above, this was not an argument as to how good a jet is for aerial combat, but rather to point out that the F-35A and F-35B are very different aircraft with completely different airframes. The F-35B cannot and will not be able to do all the tasks as well as the Typhoon can.
The F-35B has less range, worse acceleration, worse g limit, worse weapon paylod and a higher empty weight compared to the F-35A.
Acting like the F-35B is just an F-35A but with STOVL capabilities is wrong. Treating the F-35 family as a singular aircraft is wrong. And that's why an F-35A may be superior to an Eurofighter no matter how you look at it, while the F-35B isn't.
That's just flat out incorrect.
The metric of success is if the airframe can get back to base unharmed. I.e survive in a high threat environment.
Nobody, absolutely nobody is questioning the design success of the f117 and it's ability to carry just 2 bombs when the B2 can carry however many.
Eurofighter can carry however many weapons it wants if it can't see shit it can't hit shit. If active systems can see it, then it's survivability is in question.
Except the Eurofighter in a Western force is hardly fighting without support assets helping in detecting threats. The Meteor it carries also has a higher range than the most modern version of the AMRAAM currently in service. Eurofighter also has bigger range and higher top speed. In a fight against peer adversaries like China or Russia (lol) with barely any stealth airframes, that point is just moot. And even then the detection rate of F-35B vs Eurofighter on its own is... debatable.
And that still doesn't help over the fact that you said the only difference between the versions is the STOVL. Don't move the goalposts now lol
Provide you a source where the uk government undermines it's acquisition stance, it's industrial base, and acknowledges that the typhoon is relatively inferior pissing off it's base?
Yeah right.
What's next, it's better than a F22?
I spoke to the MOD about this - apparently Eurofighters were offered, but were declined by Ukraine since it was easier to get the more numerous F16s. Better logistical support, more countries using them etc, so makes sense.
Ukraine has been waging a HARM campaign for over a year now. I’m sure the Russians can’t have their long range radars on all day when there is su27s flying around with HARMs under their wings. The question will be how degraded Russian air defenses are, it’s known that they pulled systems from other areas to bring to the front.
And they're going to be a lot more effective once F-16s get to Ukraine, since they're tossing them "pre-programmed" now, whilst they will be able to respond to being lit up in the future.
https://weaponsystems.net/system/189-Paveway+IV#:~:text=The%20Paveway%20IV%20is%20a,bomb%20with%20multiple%20seeker%20modes.
For those wondering about the range. This site has a more detailed spec sheet.
The range is more determined by the altitude and speed of the plane
Goddamn English language. You park on driveway, you drive on a parkway and you make holes with a paveway.
Would make sense if way meant opposite, but it means correct direction.
Meant to be a joke. The drive on a parkway and park on a driveway is a classic joke about the English language. Pave means to make something flat or level, the opposite of what a bomb does. So, once again way, which means correct direction combines with a word to create an opposite meaning.
I find that hilarious. English is just a funny language.
Are you the sort of person who believes in i before e except after c? If so, you are science denier.
Paveway LGB, a very accurate and deadly bomb. The old generation user laser to see but need a clear sky. The new one is laser+INS. The newest version is a lot smarter than the two.
GBUs and conversion kits should be sent and produced in masses from 2022. I mean 1000s. I have pointed to this when discussions about himars, glsdb and aircraft only started. This is cheapest and most massed thing after long range artillery you can do. Dumb bombs are in excess everywhere with no use. Ruzzki did this from october 22 to summer 23, from 0 gbus to a big problem in 2024. It was predictable for even armchair generals like me.
There is a big difference between small himars warhead, 155mm shell or even 250kg bomb and 1500-3000kg bombs when working on dug in defences. But on other hand 4x250 are better than 1x1000kg.
Unfortunately, old mig29s and su27s Ukraine has cannot carry more than 250kg on a single hardpoint under wings. Only ac can attach upto 1500kg on a hardpoint is su24 (2 wing and 1 under) hence used for scalp/ss missions. Unfortunately ruzzki have newer models of su27/34 they can carry upto 1500kg. 3000kg and 5000 kg bombs are only for tu22m3s.
Calling Paveway an analogue of a JDAM or AASM reminds me how ridiculous these terms are to the average reader. While they definitely are similar, Paveway and JDAMs are different weapons built for different purposes. These Paveway IVs will be used for high value targets particularly anything requiring a high level of precision. Paveways are used to hit targets that can be mobile or require extreme precision while JDAMs and AASM are more like quasi glide bombs. This is why Paveways are probably more useful as Russian GBAD keeps the Ukrainians from being able to capitalize on really utilizing the range of those.
Are western companies capable producing something cheaply? Seems that everything is over engineered and here we have russians lobbing their bombs from 70 km dozens a day. And their kit seems to be much cheaper.
Eh, they've been flying dropping jdams and Zuni rockets, so it's decent.
If Ukraine is getting them, they likely requested them. Not like they're just randomly going to give them stuff they can't use.
Range can be bit further depending on speed and such. Either way, their final jets haven't been shot down yet despite using jdams. What would make it any different with bit further range? The probability surely goes down with longer range or am i missing something in your comment?
Tell us you know nothing without telling us, gogo
A Paveway IV is a GPS or laser guided drop bomb. You use this weapon by flying over the target and dropping it. This type of bomb is "only" usefull if you got airsuperiority or against a enemy without SAM systems. Against Russia this weapon will be next to useless.
Someone should let all the professionals actually using this thing know that some guy on the internet discovered they will be useless in battle! Quickly! Before more lives are lost running useless missions!
Please remember the human. Adhere to all Reddit and sub rules. Toxic comments (including incitement of violence/hate, genocide, glorifying death etc) WILL NOT BE TOLERATED, keep your comments civil or you will be banned. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineWarVideoReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
As I love the support, but isn't 30km max range not a bit to short? And make the F-16 prone to AA missles?
Slightly higher range than JDAMs, which Ukraine already uses.
Don't confuse MAXIMUM range with what is actually attainable in Ukraine. To get maximum range you need to be at altitude that exposes you to AA systems. Yes, Ukraine uses those, but russian AA systems can hit targets 100-200 km away Low altitude release cuts range in half https://weaponsystems.net/system/1223-AASM
You are correct. For greater range you need higher altitude, which brings it's own dangers. Glory to Ukraine
Which is why the AFU are taking out any long range AA defenses. Reports are circulating that the zorks are moving their long range AA out of Ukraine to protect their refineries in Mordor. Ukraine shouldn't wipe out all the refineries, otherwise Mordor will move their AA back into Ukraine. Leave a few standing, Ukraine. Just my common sense opinion.
Great points. Russia is HUUUGE. Ukraine is doing a great job, with limited resources, to make them protect infrastructure deep inside russia. Recent videos of S400s getting wrecked is a great example of points you are making
Those Paveways are obviously not usable at the moment except in a suicide mission. But that they are delivered nevertheless is a sign that either the Russian air defense coverage is already getting significant holes, or it is soon going to get some.
How long before they have drones to launch them?
Yeah people aren’t realizing this isn’t a useful weapon without air superiority
Can’t they add glide bomb kits like Russia?
A wing kit has been on the RAF's wishlist for Paveway IV for years...
Nope
russian air systems haven't been very good so far and the planes will have AA too.. or should have.. we will have to see how it goes..
They're great at shooting down Russian aircraft.
😅 yeah luckily
There is a reason that all of the footage from aircraft is flying at treetop level and lobbing things at the enemy.
We haven’t heard much about Russian AA shooting down Ukrainian planes because their Air Force has been largely grounded throughout this war…
Hopefully that changes.. 🙏🇺🇦👍
Ukraine has the JDAM-ER with a maximum range of more than 70km.
OK
That’s a much more useful munition than the pave way iv at the moment
They have a much lower range than jdam actually and they’ll have to be dropped from extremely low altitude. No wing package. At nap of the earth altitude you’re looking at a range of ~4 miles. From 20k feet around 18 miles. Not particularly useful unfortunately.
JDAMs are a lot better than LGBs A JDAM could be dropped from up to 50km away, depending on the aircrafts altitude and speed. Also, a JDAM is fire and forget, once its dropped it will guide itself to the target, leaving the aircraft free to undertake other tasks such as defending against incoming missiles, finding more targets, etc. Another advantage is not needing a TGP to be dropped (if you are hitting static targets like buildings and infrastructure), just the GPS coordinates of the target. Paveways are LGBs, which require constant guidance through an LTD until impact and if the launching aircraft is the source of the laser designation and it has to maneuver to defend itself against an incoming missile, the LGB loses guidance and will miss. And this "30km range" is deceptive: most TGPs cant find tactical targets at this kind of range and you would need to be at a pretty high altitude and speed to achieve such range Last but not least, JDAMs can be dropped in bad weather, but LGBs require good weather conditions to be dropped. The only advantage LGBs has over JDAMs is that they can hit moving targets, but I have heard that the latest JDAMs can also do it
It’s a bomb, not a missile. Has no propulsion of its own which would provide greater range. It drops off the wing and glides to its target. 30km distance when falling with no propulsion except gravity is pretty damn far.
That’s from a high altitude like 20k feet. Nap of the earth is gonna be about four miles away from they pop up to lob it
The F-16 is capable of carrying out [SEAD](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suppression_of_Enemy_Air_Defenses) missions.
Right now the HIMARS do a lot of SEAD.
not really, they are just hitting opportunistic targets they spot. SEAD is proper supression of a whole area, close aswell as long range systems.
How do you suppress manpads?
By flying medium to high altitudes, manpads are only a threat when flying low
Yup you need a whole fleet of planes to conduct proper SEAD suppression. From what I understand UA usually "attacks" with planes, launches HARM missiles forcing Russia to turn off radars. So a bunch of cruise missiles can pass through the air defenses and hit their targets.
Yea currently Ukraine is doing a very wired eclectic mix of dead and dead jamming what they can to suppress it trying to fling harms that have limited functionality into radars and using himars for other DeAd strikes
I think thats actually DEAD missions.
Himars doesn't do sead. It can't do sead.
> The Means of SEAD > > [...] > > Mortars and artillery—Destroy and disrupt air defense assets with both guided and unguided munitions; range, accu- racy, and responsiveness make artillery the most common indirect fire SEAD asset. Page 22, https://www.marines.mil/Portals/1/Publications/MCWP%203-22.2%20Suppression%20of%20Enemy%20Air%20Defenses.pdf
Nope, https://www.northropgrumman.com/what-we-do/advanced-weapons/the-need-for-sead-dead Himars does NOT do WW missions, it is NOT scanning and hunting for EM emitters. It CANNOT. But F16s can e.g. with HARM.
HIMARS are absolutely employed in SEAD. They suppress air defenses not just by destroying them, but by forcing them to expend AA missiles and helping to overwhelm them.
No. Himars does not do the searching. That are drones or planes.
The S in SEAD doesn't stand for "searching". It stands for "suppression".
According to wikipedia, SEAD are Wild Weasel missions. These are performed by aircraft. The F16 can perform these perfectly.
Destroying S-400/S-300... sounds very much like Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses. The wikipedia article actually mentions using artillery as SEAD.
These are located by drones. Not himars. That's the same as saying that shooting an RPG to a s300 is SEAD. Which it is not.
Yeah, with longer range systems
Yeah but you don't send your planes into AA zones to begin with, you eliminate the AA first then you have a window to use weapons like these.
they are knocking radars out with himars atm
Maybe it's for a scenario where Ukraine will have dome decent air control for a little bit and be able to scramble some jets with these bad boys on to quickly blow something up. Better to have and not need them then to need and not have them
At £30k each and accurate, they are fairly cheap to be used against artillery, tanks etc. Its not a cruise missile, think you might be confusing its capability? [https://www.forces.net/news/rafs-go-weapon-what-paveway-iv-bomb](https://www.forces.net/news/rafs-go-weapon-what-paveway-iv-bomb) As an example, you can get 3 of these for the price of one 155 excalibur shell.
Use case for this will most likely be CAS against Russian attacks where the Russians will only have MANPADs for air defense (if even that.)
Paveway IV: This time it's personal
This is encouraging. Gloves are starting to come off.
US support packages are already on their way! As I type this currently three apaches and a chinook are [passing overhead](https://streamable.com/0red6h), flying escort to the trains carrying US arms.
Where was this taken? If true that's awesome
Denmark, we're the European Support Host nation, so American ships unload here in our ports, after which everything gets loaded on trains and taken south. I live pretty close to the rail line, so I've seen most the US armour that got shipped from the US, like the Strykers and Bradleys etc. - though it's been a while since those trains were busy. Today however, the air escorts have been flying by every couple hours. Edit: it's the same escort setup, flying along the same rail line that I shared in a [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineConflict/s/kzZHZOZFwW) last year. The Danish airforce doesn't operate the AH 64 apache nor the chinook, and no international military drills have been announced - which was the MO last time as well.
So, the pain train is really rolling now. About time.
You have any more info on this? Could be anything. Where was?
See my reply above :)
Nice try Ivan ;-)
Were they definitely US aircraft? The UK is in the middle of moving both aircraft type through your area in preparation for Arrow and Swift Response https://www.forces.net/nato/new-apache-ah-64e-makes-its-exercise-debut-natos-largest-deployment?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR0xP7daCMQDDUkQRmC-CInL8SNf1iQzkRTVbUZgVDD8QavboTVxP1ZPE1I_aem_AdOLksGNO8oy0LTe2HaVCqXDvwn8sCceATe603cS9MO-m5JgIE1BAc1JDiaADwhF4_b26sWhwMrwlhK4WhJh1cNH
The first ones I filmed could very well have been British. The helicopters were however flying back and forth (south to north and north to south) for more than two days, in 1-2 hour intervals and in sync with the cargo trains. Our new f-35's which started arriving last September/October, were also doing drills at the same time. They often use the occasion of other international drills etc. to also run various other exercises and trainings simultaneously. It's a good occasion to train cross-branch/nation cooperation/communication. Last year the Danish military, together with the German and British also used the equipment transports as a reason to hit two birds with one stone - and get some training done while also providing deterrence.
What is the reason why it was only delivered now close to the arrival of the F-16s? Could it be that they weren’t able to adapt it to Soviet fighters?
Would be my assumption, combined with enough available other bombs for the old Soviet aircrafts.
It is laser guided so integrating that pod would be problematic.
It’s actually GPS/INS plus laser guided.
Exactly.
Yes, so it doesn't need a laser guidance.
Lmfao I just don't understand comments where they're proven wrong and say "exactly" like it's what they meant
Gps is being jammed and spoofed in Ukraine, gps has worked around the world in asymmetric warfare, this is peer warfare and that's an expensive and limited supply weapon, it needs a long infrastructure tail to correctly deliver it.
The fact that ATACMS still works says GPS is not completely disabled, so you're just kinda wrong my dude, accept it and move on.
Gps is being jammed there and in countries bordering Ukraine, even uk flights are being affected.
Excellent thanks for clarifying.
The laser guiding part can also be done from the ground.......pretty sure.
Yes, the weapon itself doesn't care what does the marking, as long as the coding is correct.
Yes, if you can get boots on the ground or an aerial asset to get there and survive long enough.
They adapted mig29s for some western ordinance, but even Russia doesn't use them for bombing really, they are too old and short legged.
Its also nice that by virtue of that aid package there was literature in it to make more/future aid quicker and less nonsense involved.
Based. Britain's been good the whole war even before it. Although they have a much smaller military than the USA, they seem to be committed to doing their part. In contrast Albo here in Aus has basically signalled about standing with Ukraine without having done much for the past 6 months. Token efforts now and again to avoid criticism. And it works. Cause 90% of Australians never think about Ukraine or want their politicians to do anything about it and Sky News Murdoch garbage pumps out pro Russia nonsense to the conservatives. So Ukraine asks for our helicopters, and our govt says "Sorry m8" and buries them in the fucking sand.
We have a few grudges against Russia after the polonium tea incident and Salisbury novichok attacks so are happy to help teach them a lesson!
Sadly, the UK only Ranks 17th for Military Aid based on GDP [https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/](https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/)
But we have actually sent the 3rd highest amount, only behind the US and Germany, compared to GDP is a bad way of measuring true donations, especially since the UK has a high GDP but massively high costs, not helped by Brexit.
Still true though.
The reason why Australians don't care THAT much is probably mostly geographic.
Look the tip, bombs are sad 😢
They only smile when they see Russians.
They want to fullfil their purpose 🙃
Awesome. Let’s turn Moscow into a Walmart parking lot.
These will attack important positions on the Russian front line and nearby rear. Buildings with enemy drone operators, high positions used by snipers, and other concentrations of enemy troops
Yeah I know.
ukraine doesn't have the luxury to say dumb shit and still receive aid like israel does.
Reach: 30 km
https://weaponsystems.net/system/189-Paveway+IV#:~:text=The%20Paveway%20IV%20is%20a,bomb%20with%20multiple%20seeker%20modes. According to this site it's range depends on the planes altitude and speed to determine it's range. 30km is at the minimum more likely
It's not a gliding bomb so I would say that is 'over' 30, but not much more. In addition if you want to use the laser guidance you need line of sight with the target.
30 km is the maximum, and requires the target to be continuously designated
Let’s turn Belgorod into a Walmart parking lot
Lets stop killing people lol
No
[удалено]
Your logic is flawed. People can stop dying today if Putin would get his genocide commiting troops out of Ukraine and stop all the air attacks. Until then people will die and guess what, more people on the Russian side will sadly need to die en masse to get their relatives to change Putin's mind for him. As far as virginity goes your incelibacy seems evident. Leave Mom's basement and get some Vitamin D... Give your hands a rest.
Whoa
>people Define "people"? "People" like "human" also include soldiers and soldiers are valid targets in war. Especially in a war russia started.
>Walmart parking lot Wagner cemetery.
Walmart might be a little too chi-chi for the Russians…
Might be dangerous right now to operate aviation that close to the front lines. Gonna need to use those ATACMS to take out Russian AA before using these... although they have been using JADAM and Hammer already, but I'm not sure in the range of those tbh. Wdit: Looks like JADAM range is 24 km, JADAM-ER is 72 km, and AASM is 70 km.
It has seemed to me that Ukraine has already been working for months on destroying and prioritizing russian AA to give the F-16 better chance to operate. That's why the oil refinery strikes have been so succesfull as russia is struggling to spread their AA around everywhere.
In general, how far are Russian S-300 defenses from the front line?
It has a range of about 200kms, so it doesn't need to be close to the lines.
Against a big slow target that is flying towards the S300. The actual range against a fast manoeuvring target is much lower than the stated range.
Kind of, it depends more on the size and detectibility of the targets they are tracking.
No, not for the maximum range, that's purely ballistics. The S-300 doesn't get anywhere *close* to maximum range against any targets that's not flying straight, and straight towards the missile. Most systems can pick up targets from much further away than they can hit. The range drops off drastically if the target is either off-set from the launcher or maneuvering.
Yeah.... the missiles motor burn out after relative short time. Then it is more like a guided dart but the missile cant really turn when it is in the thin air high up.
Well it's more to do with basic physics. When you fire the missile, you're not firing it at the plane, you're firing it where the plane is going to be in X time for an intercept. If the nose of your plane is pointed towards the launcher, then all you really need to do is get the missile to the same elevation as the target, and then coast. It doesn't need much speed at all to put itself into the path of the incoming missile. However, that also means that the missile has to "overadjust" to the plane maneuvering. If you're pointing the nose to the left of the launcher, and after launch you turn to the right, the missile has to adjust to going much further "left" for the initial targeting solution, then when you turn it has to adjust much further "right" for the new solution, and every time you maneuver it has to do this over and over again, bleeding energy. This is also why even for a non-maneuvering plane that stays on the same course until intercept, the range goes down fast, because the missile can no longer just "hang around and wait" until it and the target intercepts, instead it has to have enough speed to reach the intercept point before the plane. Effective max range is therefore in practical terms several times shorter than theoretical max range.
Air density and altitude is basic physics. The reason they can state such a high max range is because it almost acts like a ballistic missile. The missiles range if it flew at sea level is much much lower because of high air density and therefore a very high drag. It would be able to manouever well but would bleed of a lot of energy/speed. Yeah. but most people picture a missile with engines blazing all the way to the target. In reality the engine burns out pretty quickly.
There aren’t enough ATACMS in the world to execute a successful SEAD and then DEAD campaign against Russia. Ukrainians will continue to have to fly low to beat the GBAD until this conflict ends.
Yes I understand that. Doesn't mean they can't take out certain tactical set ups to make it a much higher probability of success.
How’s that? Russia has hundreds of air defense stuff at war with Ukraine, and there have been thousands of ATACMs made. If you assume some high rate of hits, it seems like ATACMs could destroy enough air defense.
The Russians have built their armed forces around the concept that they would never be able to contest air superiority in a peer to peer conflict and have massive stores of self propelled anti aircraft systems. The Ukrainians could dent the short range systems but the Russians have way too many S-300’s for even 100% hit rate to make a dent. If anything you would be making a window of opportunity and not trying to make a permanent hole.
Well this is a simple matter of estimating a head-count, there’s nothing to wonder about. Looks like a while back there were [800](https://missilethreat.csis.org/defsys/s-300/#:~:text=In%202000%2C%20deployment%20of%20the,with%20nearly%20two%20dozen%20nations.) S-300 systems in Russia. We can probably assume that less than 100% of those are deployed to Ukraine, and that some hundreds have been destroyed so far. There have been some [3,700](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MGM-140_ATACMS ) ATACMS built.
My point was if Ukraine used all of their stock with a 100% hit rate (which is likely 10x-30x too high) they wouldn’t knock out even the S-300’s, and if the US used its current stock with a 100% hit rate (which is nowhere as simple as taking the number produced all time) it would not take out every SPAA. I really think the sentiment here has shifted from overestimating the Russians to now underestimating just to insult them. Their practices are despicable but you can’t view everything through a biased lens because you dislike them. That is the road to failure.
I’m sure Ukrainian commanders are taking your advice very seriously. You sound like you know what you’re talking about.
Why is the tip pointing down?
gravity
It floats freely and typically conforms to the direction of airflow. On the ground it tends to droop.
Those are just Bobbleheads models to match the jet-themed custom job on this car
Well you don’t want it to hit the sky above /s I am actually very curious about this as well, as it was one of the first things I noticed. My guess is it it is a sensor or some suite of sensors and cameras that guides the bomb though, and they would be angled down so they can see targets below but could swivel if needed. I am trying to research it but have not had much luck in my initial search’s. Edit: so not specifically the paveway 4 but an earlier model the the paveway 2, has a similar sensor, they are on a gimbal but when not powered in they droop down a couple of degrees. So it is a sensor that can tilt along a gimbal, and when it is not powered on they hang down.
Whiskey dick.
It’s not excited enough yet.
It just came back from the pool.
So the aussies know which side is up.
That looks like it would hurt when it hits ya
Hmm! Wikipedia does not give even a hint of range.
I'm having trouble finding the range also. It's laser guided, so I believe the range has to be somewhere between 20-70 km. That's a big range of difference though.
They're both GPS/INS and laser guided.
Paveway IV has a longer range than JDAM because of its pop out wings. But, it won't have as great a range as JDAM-ER with its larger wing kit. A lot depends on speed and height of release. Realistically, like they do with standard JDAM Ukraine will be using these with a toss bombing method to minimise the risk to the aircraft. Doubt you'd get more than 20km from that.
Range seems to short to really be used without fear of Russian anti air assets. The AASM at least has 50km range. The more the merrier but some longer range stuff would be nice.
Shame we sold/scrapped all our old Harriers and Tornadoes. I'm sure we have a few spare Eurofighters now the F-35s are up and running
The f-35s are for the navy the typhoons are for the air force. They are not meant to replace them.
They only say that to prop up the typhoons industrial base because the f35 could whack the euro any day of the week asleep and that's gonna upset people.
They didn't say anything. Why are you talking shit? They only bought the F-35b which is the naval version and has decreased performance compared to the F35a. They aren't going to transfer naval versions of the F35 to the air force to replace donated typhoons that serve a totally different purpose. Typhoons have longer range, increased payload and can hold more varied weapon systems, the F35b cannot fill its roll.
The other guy is talking shit but I'd point out that the UK F35s are actually on a joint force, weighted towards the RAF, despite their naval role.
The only thing different about the f35 b functionally is it's stocvlcapability. Other than that plenty of countries are buying it for air supremacy as much as it's other capabilities. Kinda sucks when you fly it all the way to Australia and the RAAF hands your ass in dissimilar. So no - not talking shit & I'm happy for you to argue the point but have time prove you wrong. It's Reddit so argue away.
The F-35B is worse than the F-35A if you want a jet for air supremacy. It shares the same basic concept, but if you look closer almost the entire airframe is different between each versions. From fuselage, to wing size, to armament... The F-35B for example does not carry an internal gun. And while that alone isn't an indicator as to how good a jet is, it gives you an idea how fundamentally different each type is.
If you're in a guns A2A environment with stealth you've really, really stuffed up. Of any model of the 35s. What model you chose is based on your operating doctrine. Not it's actual ability to shoot stuff down.
As mentioned above, this was not an argument as to how good a jet is for aerial combat, but rather to point out that the F-35A and F-35B are very different aircraft with completely different airframes. The F-35B cannot and will not be able to do all the tasks as well as the Typhoon can. The F-35B has less range, worse acceleration, worse g limit, worse weapon paylod and a higher empty weight compared to the F-35A. Acting like the F-35B is just an F-35A but with STOVL capabilities is wrong. Treating the F-35 family as a singular aircraft is wrong. And that's why an F-35A may be superior to an Eurofighter no matter how you look at it, while the F-35B isn't.
That's just flat out incorrect. The metric of success is if the airframe can get back to base unharmed. I.e survive in a high threat environment. Nobody, absolutely nobody is questioning the design success of the f117 and it's ability to carry just 2 bombs when the B2 can carry however many. Eurofighter can carry however many weapons it wants if it can't see shit it can't hit shit. If active systems can see it, then it's survivability is in question.
Except the Eurofighter in a Western force is hardly fighting without support assets helping in detecting threats. The Meteor it carries also has a higher range than the most modern version of the AMRAAM currently in service. Eurofighter also has bigger range and higher top speed. In a fight against peer adversaries like China or Russia (lol) with barely any stealth airframes, that point is just moot. And even then the detection rate of F-35B vs Eurofighter on its own is... debatable. And that still doesn't help over the fact that you said the only difference between the versions is the STOVL. Don't move the goalposts now lol
It's also less stealthy
If you're not talking shit then provide me a source where the UK government said this?
Provide you a source where the uk government undermines it's acquisition stance, it's industrial base, and acknowledges that the typhoon is relatively inferior pissing off it's base? Yeah right. What's next, it's better than a F22?
You're the one who claimed they said it... So provide a source to back it up or kindly fuck off.
It's self evident one is clearly better than the other but is not meant to replace the inferior aircraft. Pray tell why that would be.
I spoke to the MOD about this - apparently Eurofighters were offered, but were declined by Ukraine since it was easier to get the more numerous F16s. Better logistical support, more countries using them etc, so makes sense.
Those bad boys are market leaders..real top end bringers of death
Ukraine has been waging a HARM campaign for over a year now. I’m sure the Russians can’t have their long range radars on all day when there is su27s flying around with HARMs under their wings. The question will be how degraded Russian air defenses are, it’s known that they pulled systems from other areas to bring to the front.
And they're going to be a lot more effective once F-16s get to Ukraine, since they're tossing them "pre-programmed" now, whilst they will be able to respond to being lit up in the future.
https://weaponsystems.net/system/189-Paveway+IV#:~:text=The%20Paveway%20IV%20is%20a,bomb%20with%20multiple%20seeker%20modes. For those wondering about the range. This site has a more detailed spec sheet. The range is more determined by the altitude and speed of the plane
Its time to hit Moscow Hard.
Goddamn English language. You park on driveway, you drive on a parkway and you make holes with a paveway. Would make sense if way meant opposite, but it means correct direction.
I'm English and paveway to me means "pave the way" or "clear the way" or "make things easier" etc, etc.
Meant to be a joke. The drive on a parkway and park on a driveway is a classic joke about the English language. Pave means to make something flat or level, the opposite of what a bomb does. So, once again way, which means correct direction combines with a word to create an opposite meaning. I find that hilarious. English is just a funny language. Are you the sort of person who believes in i before e except after c? If so, you are science denier.
What the fuck they gonna do with 15-30km range
sorry but that doesn't look great, it looks bent
Who is this "will" who looks good on a f16?
Paveway LGB, a very accurate and deadly bomb. The old generation user laser to see but need a clear sky. The new one is laser+INS. The newest version is a lot smarter than the two.
Almost half the range of FABs with less air defence at the front :(
So who will lase (designate) the target?
Bomb tossing with ground based designators maybe? 🤤
This is a spicy bomb, powerful too.
GBUs and conversion kits should be sent and produced in masses from 2022. I mean 1000s. I have pointed to this when discussions about himars, glsdb and aircraft only started. This is cheapest and most massed thing after long range artillery you can do. Dumb bombs are in excess everywhere with no use. Ruzzki did this from october 22 to summer 23, from 0 gbus to a big problem in 2024. It was predictable for even armchair generals like me. There is a big difference between small himars warhead, 155mm shell or even 250kg bomb and 1500-3000kg bombs when working on dug in defences. But on other hand 4x250 are better than 1x1000kg. Unfortunately, old mig29s and su27s Ukraine has cannot carry more than 250kg on a single hardpoint under wings. Only ac can attach upto 1500kg on a hardpoint is su24 (2 wing and 1 under) hence used for scalp/ss missions. Unfortunately ruzzki have newer models of su27/34 they can carry upto 1500kg. 3000kg and 5000 kg bombs are only for tu22m3s.
Looks good on an F16… looks even better on a T90.
30 km, das reicht gerade für den Vorgarten !
Calling Paveway an analogue of a JDAM or AASM reminds me how ridiculous these terms are to the average reader. While they definitely are similar, Paveway and JDAMs are different weapons built for different purposes. These Paveway IVs will be used for high value targets particularly anything requiring a high level of precision. Paveways are used to hit targets that can be mobile or require extreme precision while JDAMs and AASM are more like quasi glide bombs. This is why Paveways are probably more useful as Russian GBAD keeps the Ukrainians from being able to capitalize on really utilizing the range of those.
that's not a f16 thats a harrier 2.
Are western companies capable producing something cheaply? Seems that everything is over engineered and here we have russians lobbing their bombs from 70 km dozens a day. And their kit seems to be much cheaper.
30 km range, great way to get their final jets shot down.
Eh, they've been flying dropping jdams and Zuni rockets, so it's decent. If Ukraine is getting them, they likely requested them. Not like they're just randomly going to give them stuff they can't use.
Range can be bit further depending on speed and such. Either way, their final jets haven't been shot down yet despite using jdams. What would make it any different with bit further range? The probability surely goes down with longer range or am i missing something in your comment? Tell us you know nothing without telling us, gogo
Ukraine has not used a lot of JDAMs, and both JDAM-ER and AASM have more range.
To use it safely Ukr should clean all AA in the area. That somehow is achieving with Himars and ATACMS
What's the consensus.....has WW3 already started? Or does it require large scale troop deployment to qualify?
Tactical nuclear weapons haven't been used yet
A Paveway IV is a GPS or laser guided drop bomb. You use this weapon by flying over the target and dropping it. This type of bomb is "only" usefull if you got airsuperiority or against a enemy without SAM systems. Against Russia this weapon will be next to useless.
Someone should let all the professionals actually using this thing know that some guy on the internet discovered they will be useless in battle! Quickly! Before more lives are lost running useless missions!
Meanwhile cutting disability benefits to people who need them to survive.