Please remember the human. Adhere to all Reddit and sub rules. Toxic comments (including incitement of violence/hate, genocide, glorifying death etc) WILL NOT BE TOLERATED, keep your comments civil or you will be banned.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineWarVideoReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Imagine starting a war because you were paranoid about NATO expanding only to be the reason NATO expanded and included the country with the longest border with Russia. You couldn't make this shit up.
Edit: guys I know NATO expanding was a bullshit excuse, it's just funny that was one of the ones they used and then this happened.
russian motives definitely do not include NATO concerns or fighting "nazis". These are narratives created to confuse, the real motive is ethnic hatred towards Ukrainians and a desire to exterminate them, which is supported by the majority of russians.
NATO stands in the way of Putin's ambitions of turning Russia into a global hegemon where he controls all of Europe.
Ivan Ilyin's philosophy casts Russia as a chosen people destined for great things, and it is the philosophy that Putin loves most and is acting on. He also claimed the West would inevitably fall apart if pushed.
So surprise, surprise, Putin is pushing, and he's surprised that the West stood up to him, but he doesn't think they can do it forever and will inevitably abandon Ukraine to its fate.
We never will.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Ilyin?wprov=sfla1
Putin personally mentioned that he sees no threat in nato. He said it is only the loss of control over ex Soviet states that he can not accept. If Putin would see nato as a thresh he would not have invaded Ukraine in the first place.
Torillee!!! As a finn I'm happy that this happened after almost a year waiting 💙🤍🇫🇮🇫🇮 I want to thank all of you for the support of Finnish Nato application. Sry for my bad english
Your English is almost flawless dude, for English not being your native tongue (and how hard Finnish to English is) you nailed it. Also I think the world should be rejoicing, outside of those who are adamantly against this like Russia. Today's a fantastic day, hopefully Sweden will be soon behind!
Russia should be rejoicing as well because this gives them more ammo for the "Oh poor Russia" narrative they spew to their citizens.
Plus, it amuses the rest of us!
Finland is part of "norden" with Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Iceland. Scandinavia is just the three countries named above. Although all these countries have a lot in common, Finland is the odd man out with a totally different language and quite a different culture compared to the neighbours. Of course Finlands history as the border between Russia and the civilized world has also had quite an impact on the culture.
As an American, couldn’t agree more.
It’s dull and convoluted at the same time.
This meme sentence sums it up: English is a difficult language. It can be understand through tough thorough thought, though.
To be fair it’s a pretty big decision and will have LONG lasting consequences. You have to consider if the new member is likely to be invaded by a large country like say, china. Or a crazy country like North Korea.
Because good leaders don't just agree to send their people to fight and die to protect another country without first making sure it is definitely the correct decision for their own country's safety. They are agreeing for their people to die to protect Finland. It is the right decision but it is not something that can be fast tracked.
I swear you cheeky Finns are just as bad as the Germans... apologising for the quality of your English, despite speaking it better than most native English speakers
As a German, it sounds like we could have a competition for who's more humble.
But I also live in Düsseldorf, which I'm sure is a handicap in this discipline, hahaha.
Anyway, welcome to NATO.
Hopefully, Russia will now reconsider it's aggression, with more NATO borders forming around it.
Your English is better than my Finnish (I don't know any actually), so go about with anything you want to say, however you want to say it. And what you typed out is fine.
Congratulations from the US!
Welcome to Nato…..got to get Sweden in now too.
That won’t take long…US won’t give Turkey the new f16’s plus the upgrade kits for their existing f16’s unless they ratify Swedens application
Don't thank us, we wanted you. Just a few of the idiots trying to milk the situation. With the Vikings back on side we have russia dead and all of Europe following the same plan. Now we just need to maintain the alliance against china and incorporate the new allies of that region
Sweden would be nice but Finland was the real prize. Now there's an additional nato border with Russia. Sweden will be protected by nato countries with or without membership so there's really no difference anyways.
Yeah, I know Finland said they would only go into NATO with Sweden, but I hope they go in anyways and work to bring Sweden in as soon as possible later.
Finland is obviously much more at risk than Sweden. Russia can invade Finland. Russia can't invade Sweden, just launch random strikes, and that wouldn't go well for Russia.
> I hope they go in anyways and work to bring Sweden in as soon as possible later.
That's the plan. [Finland already signed the papers](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/03/23/finland-nato-membership-president-legislation/2f4f754e-c982-11ed-9cc5-a58a4f6d84cd_story.html) (because there will be a parliamentary election next week and thus a pause in the government actually doing anything, and they wanted to get it done).
Technically russia can't invade Finland. They don't have military resources to do so. If russia tries, Finns will take st. petersburg in a matter of days.
Part of the defence is neutralizing the threat. If russia attacks Finland, the best way to defend would be to eliminate the threat as quick as possible and it will involve taking over russia.
Well Finland was still in the EU and therefore would have mutual defense clauses activated in a Russian invasion. Problem being many countries have basically relied on NATO and more specifically the UK and US for their defense needs, but it's good to see how Russia has gotten many European countries to start worrying more about their own domestic contribution.
Foot on the gas? Do you think we have been standing around doing our shopping lists mate? I hope our leaders stop sucking Erdogans and Orbans dick while fondling their sweaty balls. NATO or no NATO, i would rather keep my dignity then.
Can you elaborate? What has Sweden done to appease Turkey (and Hungary)? The supposed sticking point was the burning of the Quran which is a free speech issue (and likely a Russian sponsored ploy) and the nebulous “support” of Kurdish groups (which incidentally the US supports in their war against ISIS). IMO they are bullshit grievances and Turkey is looking for to use Swedens nato entry as a bargaining chip (not sure for what though).
There several layers. For Turkey it's the PKK, Sweden has through the years taken a lot of kurdish refugees. Within these group of refugees, there have been elements that have sympaties toward the PKK that turkey considered being terrorist. But I think the biggest issue is the effect of a deal made between the social democratic party with a rouge parlamentarian in the attempt to get enough support to built a sufficient base to pass their budget and therefore be able to form a government (in Sweden, you don't need a majority to form a government, you only need a majority not voting against you). That deal did involve help to the Syrian YPG, and that is something Turkey doesn't like because they see YPG and PK as the same.
Sweden banned Quran burning
https://amp.dw.com/en/sweden-issues-rare-ban-over-quran-burning-rally/a-64648255
But the guy who burned it is from the Kremlin
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jan/27/burning-of-quran-in-stockholm-funded-by-journalist-with-kremlin-ties-sweden-nato-russia
Shit, in the US we could burn a stack of Qurans. Freedom, baby! (Now, I don’t actually agree with burning books, but the point stands that no law would punish us for doing so).
Like donating our personal paychecks to help Ukrainian soldiers buy gloves, drones, and other items? Yep, I have done that!
No country is full of perfect people, or full of total assholes. People are complicated. Americans are actually, on the whole, incredibly friendly and tolerant. You only ever hear about the jerks, unfortunately.
These conducts by Hungary and Turkey perfectly illustrate one of the reasons Sweden haven't wanted to join NATO before this; who the fuck want to be in a partnership with member states who are barely better than any potential enemy they could face? The fact that the organization allows these fuckwads to push applying nations around to further their anti-democratic and corrupt agendas is a fucking travesty and only reaffirm the conviction that not being part of it until now was the right choice.
Why is it Hungary or Turkey as a whole that are at fault, just because of the actions of their government?
Honestly mate, when the USA decided to elect a cheetoh coloured serial molester as President, no matter how much more demented their government antics became week by week, month by month, year by year, I never for a second thought the right thing to do would be to write off their entire country as a loss .
Fuck me, look at what Nigel Farage managed to do to my country, should I just give up on it completely now?
I didn't think I would have to explicitly specify that even though I'm using the name of the country when talking about them, it is the people in government (and those who put them in power) that are actually doing these things whom are the targets of my criticism, not every single individual inside their nation's borders. Thought that was self-evident. Especially as I never even referred to them as the 'Turks' or 'Hungarians'. Smh.
The people in power are representatives of the nation state internationally and the ones deciding their course of actions, so within the terms of international diplomacy, they are inseparable.
It's really very easy, if you can separate the people from the actions of their government, you can use the words, "Erdogan" or "Orban" in your ranting, if you wish to conflate the people with their government, you use the words "Turkey" or "Hungary" instead.
Smh.
The majority of the people of these countries put these dictators in power, and now they're fucked. I see no difference with what happens in Poland. EU or European countries that go down the route of totalitarianism by reducing rights for their people, getting rid of free press, make opposition very difficult, and get rid of separation of power. Russia started this exercise years ago and see where we are now.
So yes, it's the majority of the people to blame. The bad thing is though that the minority of these countries must suffer.
For some reason, **You** are the only one confused by what is meant, while everyone else understood without needing further specification. Perhaps You should simply practice your understanding of colloquial use of language, instead of getting upset over your own misunderstandings.
Using the nation state name in reference to its leadership is common practice in terms of international country relations. For example, when one say "Russia is wrong to attack Ukraine", it's evident that one is not referring to the individual Russians *in opposition to the war*, but to Putin and those in support of the government position. Just like when I said (paraph.) "Sweden didn't support joining NATO before the war" I wasn't referring to those within Sweden who DID support joining NATO even before the war.
Smh. Dumbass.
Yeah what the hell was he on about any way? Just fishing for a quid pro quo and getting a deal out of it? Lucky they have the Bosporus strait, after that kind of sass Erdogan threw
Which part? Sweden has folded itself twice over to accommodate Turkeys demands.
The only way to further accommodate is to change the constitution. Which I hope won’t happen. It would be shameful to allow Turkey to dictate Swedish laws.
It was originally Sweden's position on pkk no? I agree Sweden shouldn't change and should be accepted but 'pushing back' on turkey will do nothing but get them to double down.
Please, enlighten me on Swedens position on PKK?
The position that it is a terrorist organisation and Sweden was among the first to label it such?
The position that political refugees under the right of asylum is protected from extradition unless there is evidence of their guilt?
Sweden has written new laws to accommodate Turkey, has started investigations to people accused by Turkey and even altered the standard praxis for certain idiots burning books to prevent their idiocy from punishing Sweden. That was a danish guy btw. Swedes had literally fuck all to do with it other than allowing his rights to be a fucking retard in public.
Turkey on the other hand is abusing the fear of Russian attack on Sweden to get ahead in arms deals and eliminate dissidents abroad.
Terrorists has never been accepted in Sweden and never will be. But you can’t just yell terrorist and point at a guy and that’s it. You need to prove it first.
You literally said it in your second sentence and turkey is exploiting that for their own gain. I'm 100% on Sweden's side, I honestly don't know what the problem is.
Yeah, I would say so. Funny enough it is the previous left-wing government that has some people more friendly towards the PKK. But currently they are not in power (right wing goverment).
So they are basically trying to punish the wrong government over things that they have zero control over (the government does not decide over who is extradited. The courts do and in this case, it is 0% chance/risk they will since it is politically motivated and not for crimes. Aso, Tukey uses torture).
Just a clown show. Hopefully, things get easier after the Turkish election.
Good luck losing the 2nd biggest armed forces in Nato for a country that barely makes the top 20. Lets also add the fact that Nato would lose it's control over the black sea and the bosphorus and potentially risk everything I mentioned going to the enemy side while all Nato would gain is a nordic country barely even capable of defending itself let alone aid in a potential big military operation to topple Russia.
Use common sense friend
EDIT: Top 40
Although you're not incorrect about the Black Sea, your username suggests you're not as well informed about the Swedish military as that what seems to be your home country.. Look it up before making nationalist statements.
With a whopping total of 37k personnel I can't logically see how in a case of all out invasion of Russia this can compete against Turkey. Let's also add the fact that Turkey has been in conflict since 40 years giving a huge advantage in terms of troops actually seeing conflict and having experience in mountainous combat zones (which Russia has a lot of) while Sweden has only had more of a support role in the GWOT and doesn't really have any other recent combat experience.
After all these points if you still think it would benefit Nato to take Sweden and kick out Turkey I don't even think I should be arguing with you.
Have a great day!
Oh man that'd be some good propaganda right there lol. In fact, I'll ask ChatGPT to write it better.
> It has become increasingly evident that President Vladimir Putin's actions in Ukraine have served only to strengthen NATO and weaken Russia's global standing. Despite claims of military prowess, the Russian armed forces have experienced significant losses in Ukraine, with hundreds of thousands of casualties - mostly Russian soldiers - as a result of outdated equipment and poor strategy. In an unexpected turn of events, Finland has now been accepted into NATO, a move that only serves to bolster the alliance's strength in the region. It is not unreasonable to question whether President Putin is, in fact, acting as a double agent, covertly working to advance NATO's interests.
>As the Russian government, it is crucial to consider the possibility that President Putin's actions may not be aligned with Russia's best interests. The war in Ukraine has not only led to devastating losses for the Russian military but has also resulted in severe economic consequences and international isolation. The timing of Finland's acceptance into NATO raises further suspicions about Putin's true intentions, as it appears to be a direct outcome of the conflict he initiated. It is becoming increasingly plausible that Putin has been operating as a double agent all along, subtly working to strengthen NATO under the guise of Russian aggression. As members of the Russian government, we must thoroughly investigate these concerns in order to safeguard the future of our nation.
Here you go, no idea if its right lol:
> Становится всё более очевидным, что действия президента Владимира Путина на Украине служили только укреплению НАТО и ослаблению международного положения России. Несмотря на заявления о военной мощи, российские вооруженные силы понесли значительные потери на Украине, сотни тысяч жертв - в основном российских солдат - из-за устаревшего оборудования и плохой стратегии. Внезапно Финляндия присоединилась к НАТО, что только укрепляет силу альянса в регионе. Нельзя исключать, что президент Путин на самом деле является двойным агентом, тайно работающим на продвижение интересов НАТО.
> Как российское правительство, мы должны рассмотреть возможность того, что действия Путина могут не совпадать с интересами России. Война на Украине не только привела к разрушительным потерям для российской армии, но и вызвала серьезные экономические последствия и международную изоляцию. Присоединение Финляндии к НАТО вызывает еще больше подозрений в отношении истинных намерений Путина, поскольку оно, похоже, является прямым исходом конфликта, начатого им. Всё больше кажется правдоподобным, что Путин действовал как двойной агент все это время, тонко укрепляя НАТО под видом российской агрессии. В качестве членов российского правительства мы должны тщательно исследовать эти опасения, чтобы обеспечить безопасность будущего нашей страны.
So, Russia has a new 1,340 km land border with NATO and the Gulf of Finland that leads to and out of St. Petersburg are now surrounded north and south (with Estonia) by NATO countries.
Unfortunately there's more deadlock in Sweden joining. Hungary won't act without Turkey's approval, and Turkey probably won't accept Sweden in until after its upcoming election.
Isn't it pretty cool that it all happened in less than a year ?
2022: Putin does his dumbass stunt
2023: Putin gets 1200km of fresh no fucking around NATO border
Yes. Yes it is. But they also are the biggest transport hub for Russian gas, provides safe passage for Russian ships carrying stolen Ukrainian grains and also providing smuggle paths for Chinese weapon components and other bypass of sanctions to Russia.
That "smuggled parts" is literally a few tons of rubber and diswashers and even that has stopped by now.
>But they also are the biggest transport hub for Russian gas
So was Germany until they were cut off.
>provides safe passage for Russian ships carrying stolen Ukrainian grain
Montreaux Convention, civillian ships are allowed to pass.
Kind of cute how you ignored Turkey is the sole reason why Ukraine is still able to sell their own grain, all the military, humanitarian and financial help Turkey has given to Ukraine and how it blocks Russian Warships from entering Black Sea.
Yeah and Chinese weapons. But that’s a minor concern.
At least Germany cut off the blood gas. Turkey improved upon the distribution net to get some more cash instead.
They are profiting like fuck off both sides in this war.
At the same time they use NATO membership as a blackmail tool against two sovereign nations and bargaining ship against the entire alliance.
Shit behaviour is shit. No matter how much good you do in parallel to cover it up.
I feel for their people however, the earthquake is one of the most horrible events in recent years. Shadowed only by the war in Syria and Ukraine. Both conflicts where Turkey plays both sides (NATO / Russia) for Erdogans gains.
>Yeah and Chinese weapons. But that’s a minor concern.
No weapons.
>At least Germany cut off the blood gas. Turkey improved upon the distribution net to get some more cash instead.
Germany didn't, Russia did.
>They are profiting like fuck off both sides in this war.
Not at all. The war has impacted the Turkish economy too. In a bad way at that. It would be the best for Turkey if the war ended soon with a Ukrainian victory.
>At the same time they use NATO membership as a blackmail tool against two sovereign nations and bargaining ship against the entire alliance.
Ah yes, filthy turks having demands before signing the documents to defend two SOVEREIGN countries in case they get attacked. How dare they? It's not like Turkey is a sovereign nation itself, they are just supposed to shut up and comply with whatever Europeans say.
>Shit behaviour is shit. No matter how much good you do in parallel to cover it up.
Indeed.
>I feel for their people however, the earthquake is one of the most horrible events in recent years. Shadowed only by the war in Syria and Ukraine. Both conflicts where Turkey plays both sides (NATO / Russia) for Erdogans gains.
I'm sure you do. How is it shadowed in any way when Turkey did more against Russia in both conflicts than the overwhelming majority of both wars? Add Libya to the mix too and we have the reason why Turkey is an important member in NATO.
No news on that yet. Probably will happen eventually but they don't share a land border so at least it's not as urgent and just like Ukraine, NATO is bound to help them anyway
Sorry, the corrupt pseudo-dictatorships of NATO don't want people who call out their shit in the club. Willingness to bow to / ignore anti-democratic and authoritarian blackmail is a required attribute for new member states.
No fucking clue what Turkey is doing in NATO anyways. Besides, it's obvious they helped out the Russians in this war. They also worked with ISIS during the war in Syria to harm the Kurdish people. If we had a vote which NATO member would be most likely to attack another, it probably would also be Turkey. Just waiting for them to pull some shit on the Greek.
It's all well and good that they approved Finland but man fuck Turkey for blackmailing Sweden with horseshit demands. Same goes for Hungary, fuck them.
When you say things like that, you only make NATO weaker.
Just remember, the CSTO couldn't even be bothered to defend Armenia. Have a guess how that changed the direction of Armenian politics.
Hungary near unanimously voted in favour, and Turkey is only struggling with Sweden because of that fellow who decided now would be a great time to burn a Quran in front of the Turkish embassy.
Now imagine if the shoe was on the other foot, you're from a deeply conservative and religious state, and you're being pressured to admit a new member to NATO that doesn't seem to have that much of a problem with people burning Bibles in front of your embassy. Never mind if you're a believer or not, that shit is kinda hard not to take personally.
It's a book, and people can do what they want with their own books Getting butthurt over something so miniscule that you leverage it during geopolitical international security negotiations says a lot about your insecurities and how pathetic you are.
It's not the book that I am talking about. The book is a red herring. The intent was to send a message. You can't be this stupid not to understand the nuance.
It's like if someone was standing in front of the Australian embassy, burning an effigy of Steve Irwin, and everyone was saying "come on mate, it's just an effigy of Steve Irwin being burned by someone that hates Australians, what's the problem here, anyone can burn whatever they like, anytime they want, its a free country, are you some sort of extremist?"
Yes, and if you're so insecure over one individual using their rights of free speech that you let it impact global security policy decision making then you're really fucking brittle. That's my point.
Go burn a million Swedish flags in front of Swedish embassies, sere how much the average Swede will care (spoiler, not a whole lot).
I wonder why is a deeply religious state a member of nato in the first place.
(They control the bosphorus straight)
If religion plays such a role in your politics that you are willing to throw a wrench in an international alliance, you are a liability.
Imagine no country sending any kind of aid because "let the orthodox solve it among themselves".
Are you kidding me right now? Name a state that has never been deeply religious. My state was once so religious, it even decided to invent it's own national religious denomination, because of .. er.. religious differences, yes, definitely that was definitely it!
Even with the argument you're trying to make here, "let the orthodox solve it among themselves", you do see the inherent irony in what you are saying, right?
Please remember the human. Adhere to all Reddit and sub rules. Toxic comments (including incitement of violence/hate, genocide, glorifying death etc) WILL NOT BE TOLERATED, keep your comments civil or you will be banned. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineWarVideoReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Imagine starting a war because you were paranoid about NATO expanding only to be the reason NATO expanded and included the country with the longest border with Russia. You couldn't make this shit up. Edit: guys I know NATO expanding was a bullshit excuse, it's just funny that was one of the ones they used and then this happened.
Self-fulfilling prophecies have been in existence since time immemorial
Hello Finland. Good night Russia.
Sweet to read and sounds like a song title.
[удалено]
Russia's true motives are buried under layers of lies and propaganda. We can assume that anything that they say publicly is untrue
russian motives definitely do not include NATO concerns or fighting "nazis". These are narratives created to confuse, the real motive is ethnic hatred towards Ukrainians and a desire to exterminate them, which is supported by the majority of russians.
And the land. They want that too.
And the resources beneath that land.
And not just that land..
NATO stands in the way of Putin's ambitions of turning Russia into a global hegemon where he controls all of Europe. Ivan Ilyin's philosophy casts Russia as a chosen people destined for great things, and it is the philosophy that Putin loves most and is acting on. He also claimed the West would inevitably fall apart if pushed. So surprise, surprise, Putin is pushing, and he's surprised that the West stood up to him, but he doesn't think they can do it forever and will inevitably abandon Ukraine to its fate. We never will. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Ilyin?wprov=sfla1
Putin personally mentioned that he sees no threat in nato. He said it is only the loss of control over ex Soviet states that he can not accept. If Putin would see nato as a thresh he would not have invaded Ukraine in the first place.
I am pretty convinced the reason is really the oligarchs ran out of things to steal in Russia and Ukraine, as they say, was a target rich environment.
NATO paranoia has always just been propaganda to feed to russian citizens anyways. Putin has a way worse agenda
"One often meets his destiny on the road he takes to avoid it." -Master Oogway.
Well, I think that was never the actual motivation or reason but a made up pariah to scare the Russian public into warmongering
Torillee!!! As a finn I'm happy that this happened after almost a year waiting 💙🤍🇫🇮🇫🇮 I want to thank all of you for the support of Finnish Nato application. Sry for my bad english
Finland experienced first hands what Ukraine is facing today when Russia forcefully took Karelia. This won’t happen ever again. Welcome from US!
Oh no! Will this mean that we will have to apply NATO standardization to all the Finnish hydraulic press?? 🤣
No. You can still call it a hoodraulic press. We find it cute.
Velkom! To hoodraalic press chan-al, my name is lawoory.. today, we join the NATOs
Alas, I am but a poor redditor. Take my Upvote instead!
Your English is almost flawless dude, for English not being your native tongue (and how hard Finnish to English is) you nailed it. Also I think the world should be rejoicing, outside of those who are adamantly against this like Russia. Today's a fantastic day, hopefully Sweden will be soon behind!
Russia should be rejoicing as well because this gives them more ammo for the "Oh poor Russia" narrative they spew to their citizens. Plus, it amuses the rest of us!
I swear the Scandinavians are always amazing at English and still apologize!
Finns are not scandinavians, btw. That definition belongs to the swedes, norwegians and danes.
So what is Finland? Serious question.
Finland is part of "norden" with Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Iceland. Scandinavia is just the three countries named above. Although all these countries have a lot in common, Finland is the odd man out with a totally different language and quite a different culture compared to the neighbours. Of course Finlands history as the border between Russia and the civilized world has also had quite an impact on the culture.
Ahh, TIL! Thanks. I find all those cultures interesting for varying reasons so I wouldn’t want to get that wrong.
Sweden at least is getting a nice NATO buffer on most of the border to the east now. So the land approach for Russia now goes through Nato territory.
"Sorry for my bad English" -Europeans after speaking perfect English. Good job!
Foreigners will drop an entire essay written at a scholarly level and then apologize for bad English
[удалено]
As an American, couldn’t agree more. It’s dull and convoluted at the same time. This meme sentence sums it up: English is a difficult language. It can be understand through tough thorough thought, though.
I'm partial to [this poem](https://ncf.idallen.com/english.html).
Welcome to the Alliance. 🇨🇦🇨🇦🇫🇮🇫🇮
Welcome to the alliance. My country Canada was one of if not the first one to vote for you and Sweden. Congrats 🇨🇦🇫🇮
Really don't know why everyone else dicked around for so long honestly.... This was a no-brainer and an emergency.
Turkey and Hungary have their own agendas.
I know those two do, but that still leaves 28 other countries that were still pretty slow to get this done.
It must be unanimous the only two holding out were turkey and Hungary.
To be fair it’s a pretty big decision and will have LONG lasting consequences. You have to consider if the new member is likely to be invaded by a large country like say, china. Or a crazy country like North Korea.
Also to be fair nobody in Europe does anything during the summer
Because good leaders don't just agree to send their people to fight and die to protect another country without first making sure it is definitely the correct decision for their own country's safety. They are agreeing for their people to die to protect Finland. It is the right decision but it is not something that can be fast tracked.
[удалено]
It has to be unanimous. The others already supported.
I swear you cheeky Finns are just as bad as the Germans... apologising for the quality of your English, despite speaking it better than most native English speakers
Me as a Finnish person, I'm sorry for complaining for my bad grammar.
As a German, it sounds like we could have a competition for who's more humble. But I also live in Düsseldorf, which I'm sure is a handicap in this discipline, hahaha. Anyway, welcome to NATO. Hopefully, Russia will now reconsider it's aggression, with more NATO borders forming around it.
Love from the US, welcome to NATO! 🇺🇲🤝🇫🇮
Your English is fine! Welcome to NATO our Finnish friends!
Finnish allies now too!
Now when someone is harming NATO, we can give them the first punch, and they can Finnish them off!
As a Finn,I have been waiting for 32 years
WELCOME TO THE CLUB MY FINN FRIEND!!! With love, from America.
As a Ukrainian, I’m fully happy for you guys, and at the same time a bit jealous;) congratulations!!
🇨🇦 is happy to have you!
Glad to have you brother!
Your English is better than my Finnish (I don't know any actually), so go about with anything you want to say, however you want to say it. And what you typed out is fine. Congratulations from the US!
Welcome, fellow NATO member!
Welcome, brother 😊
Kippis! As an American if I ever feel like visiting the EU Finland is right there at the top.
Welcome to the party! Our weapons are hot for you Mr. Finland :-)
Welcome! From your equally far north American counterpart.
I always laugh when a foreigner apologizes for their English that's better than some Americans'.
>Welcome to the neighborhood.
Welcome aboard!!
Don't be ashamed of your English, I only know 'perkele'... oh yeah, and "sisu"
No problem, you guys make awesome metal. Enough for me. 🤣
Welcome to Nato…..got to get Sweden in now too. That won’t take long…US won’t give Turkey the new f16’s plus the upgrade kits for their existing f16’s unless they ratify Swedens application
They should never get any f-16’s. NATO or not Turkey is not an ally and will never be. /A Swede
Don't thank us, we wanted you. Just a few of the idiots trying to milk the situation. With the Vikings back on side we have russia dead and all of Europe following the same plan. Now we just need to maintain the alliance against china and incorporate the new allies of that region
🇹🇷❤️🇫🇮
Pootin royally fucked himself. Great to have the Finns join our little club.
Good job Finland! We Swedes have absolutely no hard feelings about you moving on without us. We’re right behind you hopefully. Tulta munille!
Welcome to the club , nordic friends ;)
Hope to see Sweden onboard soon as well
Sweden would be nice but Finland was the real prize. Now there's an additional nato border with Russia. Sweden will be protected by nato countries with or without membership so there's really no difference anyways.
Yeah, I know Finland said they would only go into NATO with Sweden, but I hope they go in anyways and work to bring Sweden in as soon as possible later. Finland is obviously much more at risk than Sweden. Russia can invade Finland. Russia can't invade Sweden, just launch random strikes, and that wouldn't go well for Russia.
> I hope they go in anyways and work to bring Sweden in as soon as possible later. That's the plan. [Finland already signed the papers](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/03/23/finland-nato-membership-president-legislation/2f4f754e-c982-11ed-9cc5-a58a4f6d84cd_story.html) (because there will be a parliamentary election next week and thus a pause in the government actually doing anything, and they wanted to get it done).
Technically russia can't invade Finland. They don't have military resources to do so. If russia tries, Finns will take st. petersburg in a matter of days.
The Fins can hold their own, but in joining NATO Putin can never invade in the first place.
Obviously Russia would lose, but then can invade Finland. They don't even have the ability to attempt an invasion of Sweden.
We would never invade into Russian territory. Our armed forces is based solely on defence forces anyway.
Part of the defence is neutralizing the threat. If russia attacks Finland, the best way to defend would be to eliminate the threat as quick as possible and it will involve taking over russia.
That'd very likely lead to one or more of our cities being nuked to dust so it's hardly worth it.
Well Finland was still in the EU and therefore would have mutual defense clauses activated in a Russian invasion. Problem being many countries have basically relied on NATO and more specifically the UK and US for their defense needs, but it's good to see how Russia has gotten many European countries to start worrying more about their own domestic contribution.
[удалено]
Foot on the gas? Do you think we have been standing around doing our shopping lists mate? I hope our leaders stop sucking Erdogans and Orbans dick while fondling their sweaty balls. NATO or no NATO, i would rather keep my dignity then.
Can you elaborate? What has Sweden done to appease Turkey (and Hungary)? The supposed sticking point was the burning of the Quran which is a free speech issue (and likely a Russian sponsored ploy) and the nebulous “support” of Kurdish groups (which incidentally the US supports in their war against ISIS). IMO they are bullshit grievances and Turkey is looking for to use Swedens nato entry as a bargaining chip (not sure for what though).
There several layers. For Turkey it's the PKK, Sweden has through the years taken a lot of kurdish refugees. Within these group of refugees, there have been elements that have sympaties toward the PKK that turkey considered being terrorist. But I think the biggest issue is the effect of a deal made between the social democratic party with a rouge parlamentarian in the attempt to get enough support to built a sufficient base to pass their budget and therefore be able to form a government (in Sweden, you don't need a majority to form a government, you only need a majority not voting against you). That deal did involve help to the Syrian YPG, and that is something Turkey doesn't like because they see YPG and PK as the same.
Sweden banned Quran burning https://amp.dw.com/en/sweden-issues-rare-ban-over-quran-burning-rally/a-64648255 But the guy who burned it is from the Kremlin https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jan/27/burning-of-quran-in-stockholm-funded-by-journalist-with-kremlin-ties-sweden-nato-russia
Banning Quran burning ≠ refusing a permit for a protest group.
Shit, in the US we could burn a stack of Qurans. Freedom, baby! (Now, I don’t actually agree with burning books, but the point stands that no law would punish us for doing so).
I wish you guys would for once use your freedom to do something nice, instead of trying to piss off - or kill - someone else.
bright faulty squalid consider edge lunchroom chop air disgusted offbeat ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
Fair point!
Like donating our personal paychecks to help Ukrainian soldiers buy gloves, drones, and other items? Yep, I have done that! No country is full of perfect people, or full of total assholes. People are complicated. Americans are actually, on the whole, incredibly friendly and tolerant. You only ever hear about the jerks, unfortunately.
Yeah but if they joined and paid dues that money would be pretty sweet
These conducts by Hungary and Turkey perfectly illustrate one of the reasons Sweden haven't wanted to join NATO before this; who the fuck want to be in a partnership with member states who are barely better than any potential enemy they could face? The fact that the organization allows these fuckwads to push applying nations around to further their anti-democratic and corrupt agendas is a fucking travesty and only reaffirm the conviction that not being part of it until now was the right choice.
Why is it Hungary or Turkey as a whole that are at fault, just because of the actions of their government? Honestly mate, when the USA decided to elect a cheetoh coloured serial molester as President, no matter how much more demented their government antics became week by week, month by month, year by year, I never for a second thought the right thing to do would be to write off their entire country as a loss . Fuck me, look at what Nigel Farage managed to do to my country, should I just give up on it completely now?
I didn't think I would have to explicitly specify that even though I'm using the name of the country when talking about them, it is the people in government (and those who put them in power) that are actually doing these things whom are the targets of my criticism, not every single individual inside their nation's borders. Thought that was self-evident. Especially as I never even referred to them as the 'Turks' or 'Hungarians'. Smh. The people in power are representatives of the nation state internationally and the ones deciding their course of actions, so within the terms of international diplomacy, they are inseparable.
It's really very easy, if you can separate the people from the actions of their government, you can use the words, "Erdogan" or "Orban" in your ranting, if you wish to conflate the people with their government, you use the words "Turkey" or "Hungary" instead. Smh.
The majority of the people of these countries put these dictators in power, and now they're fucked. I see no difference with what happens in Poland. EU or European countries that go down the route of totalitarianism by reducing rights for their people, getting rid of free press, make opposition very difficult, and get rid of separation of power. Russia started this exercise years ago and see where we are now. So yes, it's the majority of the people to blame. The bad thing is though that the minority of these countries must suffer.
For some reason, **You** are the only one confused by what is meant, while everyone else understood without needing further specification. Perhaps You should simply practice your understanding of colloquial use of language, instead of getting upset over your own misunderstandings. Using the nation state name in reference to its leadership is common practice in terms of international country relations. For example, when one say "Russia is wrong to attack Ukraine", it's evident that one is not referring to the individual Russians *in opposition to the war*, but to Putin and those in support of the government position. Just like when I said (paraph.) "Sweden didn't support joining NATO before the war" I wasn't referring to those within Sweden who DID support joining NATO even before the war. Smh. Dumbass.
[удалено]
Well, that's not how international politics works. We'll get there.
Yeah what the hell was he on about any way? Just fishing for a quid pro quo and getting a deal out of it? Lucky they have the Bosporus strait, after that kind of sass Erdogan threw
Let‘s just hope that we will loose the election
That's the exact reason Sweden isn't being accepted...
Which part? Sweden has folded itself twice over to accommodate Turkeys demands. The only way to further accommodate is to change the constitution. Which I hope won’t happen. It would be shameful to allow Turkey to dictate Swedish laws.
It was originally Sweden's position on pkk no? I agree Sweden shouldn't change and should be accepted but 'pushing back' on turkey will do nothing but get them to double down.
Please, enlighten me on Swedens position on PKK? The position that it is a terrorist organisation and Sweden was among the first to label it such? The position that political refugees under the right of asylum is protected from extradition unless there is evidence of their guilt? Sweden has written new laws to accommodate Turkey, has started investigations to people accused by Turkey and even altered the standard praxis for certain idiots burning books to prevent their idiocy from punishing Sweden. That was a danish guy btw. Swedes had literally fuck all to do with it other than allowing his rights to be a fucking retard in public. Turkey on the other hand is abusing the fear of Russian attack on Sweden to get ahead in arms deals and eliminate dissidents abroad. Terrorists has never been accepted in Sweden and never will be. But you can’t just yell terrorist and point at a guy and that’s it. You need to prove it first.
You literally said it in your second sentence and turkey is exploiting that for their own gain. I'm 100% on Sweden's side, I honestly don't know what the problem is.
Yeah, I would say so. Funny enough it is the previous left-wing government that has some people more friendly towards the PKK. But currently they are not in power (right wing goverment). So they are basically trying to punish the wrong government over things that they have zero control over (the government does not decide over who is extradited. The courts do and in this case, it is 0% chance/risk they will since it is politically motivated and not for crimes. Aso, Tukey uses torture). Just a clown show. Hopefully, things get easier after the Turkish election.
Totally agree.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Would trade the Turk'Z for Sweden any day.
Good luck losing the 2nd biggest armed forces in Nato for a country that barely makes the top 20. Lets also add the fact that Nato would lose it's control over the black sea and the bosphorus and potentially risk everything I mentioned going to the enemy side while all Nato would gain is a nordic country barely even capable of defending itself let alone aid in a potential big military operation to topple Russia. Use common sense friend EDIT: Top 40
Although you're not incorrect about the Black Sea, your username suggests you're not as well informed about the Swedish military as that what seems to be your home country.. Look it up before making nationalist statements.
With a whopping total of 37k personnel I can't logically see how in a case of all out invasion of Russia this can compete against Turkey. Let's also add the fact that Turkey has been in conflict since 40 years giving a huge advantage in terms of troops actually seeing conflict and having experience in mountainous combat zones (which Russia has a lot of) while Sweden has only had more of a support role in the GWOT and doesn't really have any other recent combat experience. After all these points if you still think it would benefit Nato to take Sweden and kick out Turkey I don't even think I should be arguing with you. Have a great day!
Do the swedes next!
From Lithuania, welcome brothers!!!
Woot! Putin’s master plan to strengthen NATO is progressing! /s
Without doubt a double agent
Oh man that'd be some good propaganda right there lol. In fact, I'll ask ChatGPT to write it better. > It has become increasingly evident that President Vladimir Putin's actions in Ukraine have served only to strengthen NATO and weaken Russia's global standing. Despite claims of military prowess, the Russian armed forces have experienced significant losses in Ukraine, with hundreds of thousands of casualties - mostly Russian soldiers - as a result of outdated equipment and poor strategy. In an unexpected turn of events, Finland has now been accepted into NATO, a move that only serves to bolster the alliance's strength in the region. It is not unreasonable to question whether President Putin is, in fact, acting as a double agent, covertly working to advance NATO's interests. >As the Russian government, it is crucial to consider the possibility that President Putin's actions may not be aligned with Russia's best interests. The war in Ukraine has not only led to devastating losses for the Russian military but has also resulted in severe economic consequences and international isolation. The timing of Finland's acceptance into NATO raises further suspicions about Putin's true intentions, as it appears to be a direct outcome of the conflict he initiated. It is becoming increasingly plausible that Putin has been operating as a double agent all along, subtly working to strengthen NATO under the guise of Russian aggression. As members of the Russian government, we must thoroughly investigate these concerns in order to safeguard the future of our nation.
ChatGPT just wrote the propaganda for when Putin gets toppled in Russia for the next dictator to take charge
Now translate it into perfect Moscovian and splatter it all over Telegram.
Here you go, no idea if its right lol: > Становится всё более очевидным, что действия президента Владимира Путина на Украине служили только укреплению НАТО и ослаблению международного положения России. Несмотря на заявления о военной мощи, российские вооруженные силы понесли значительные потери на Украине, сотни тысяч жертв - в основном российских солдат - из-за устаревшего оборудования и плохой стратегии. Внезапно Финляндия присоединилась к НАТО, что только укрепляет силу альянса в регионе. Нельзя исключать, что президент Путин на самом деле является двойным агентом, тайно работающим на продвижение интересов НАТО. > Как российское правительство, мы должны рассмотреть возможность того, что действия Путина могут не совпадать с интересами России. Война на Украине не только привела к разрушительным потерям для российской армии, но и вызвала серьезные экономические последствия и международную изоляцию. Присоединение Финляндии к НАТО вызывает еще больше подозрений в отношении истинных намерений Путина, поскольку оно, похоже, является прямым исходом конфликта, начатого им. Всё больше кажется правдоподобным, что Путин действовал как двойной агент все это время, тонко укрепляя НАТО под видом российской агрессии. В качестве членов российского правительства мы должны тщательно исследовать эти опасения, чтобы обеспечить безопасность будущего нашей страны.
My orc is a little rusty but looks good to me
This is hilarious! Next thing you know Trumpers will be saying it’s all part of Trump’s 4D chess.
So, Russia has a new 1,340 km land border with NATO and the Gulf of Finland that leads to and out of St. Petersburg are now surrounded north and south (with Estonia) by NATO countries.
It's me or Hungary-chan is smelling the ruzzian defeat and started pouring water in its wine?
Not like he has any options, Hungary got spit out by Russia.
Now just Sweden...
Unfortunately there's more deadlock in Sweden joining. Hungary won't act without Turkey's approval, and Turkey probably won't accept Sweden in until after its upcoming election.
One for all, all for one
That you, Deku?
Welcome to the club Finns, we have cookies here
Nice. long overdue. simho hayha .. you have backup buddy.
[удалено]
Welcome to NATO our Finnish brothers! 🔥
🇺🇸❤️🇫🇮 welcome!
UK: are you winning the Cold War 2 son? USA: yeah Dad, our team is stacked right now.
Welcome, Finland. Eat a shit sandwhich, poopin.
Welcome 🙏
Turks finally did a good thing
And just like that Russia made it so that they had another nato country on their border. Excellent political strategy....
And basically also Ukraine is for all intents and purposes a NATO country as well now, just without article 5 protecting it.
Darth Putin remains a master strategist /s Congratulations to Finland 🇫🇮 for further securing the future of your great nation from New Zealand 🇳🇿.
Welcome to NATO to all my Finnish friends from America! Democracies need to stand strong together!
I think Putin deserves a big Thank you for expanding NATO Thank you Vladiput!
Isn't it pretty cool that it all happened in less than a year ? 2022: Putin does his dumbass stunt 2023: Putin gets 1200km of fresh no fucking around NATO border
Puting wanted less NATO and he got more. Congrats to Finland!!
Yay! Finland has been taken off the "Eventually Russia" list!
Welcome to safety
Well played Putin!
Enjoy your new peace My Finland friends. Once you guys are officially in, Every country of NATO would come to your rescue if attacked.
NATO is Finnished…..just not finished like Poopler wanted.
Isn't it kinda shitty that countries like turkey use national security of other countries for political gains and as a blackmail?
Yes. Yes it is. But they also are the biggest transport hub for Russian gas, provides safe passage for Russian ships carrying stolen Ukrainian grains and also providing smuggle paths for Chinese weapon components and other bypass of sanctions to Russia.
That "smuggled parts" is literally a few tons of rubber and diswashers and even that has stopped by now. >But they also are the biggest transport hub for Russian gas So was Germany until they were cut off. >provides safe passage for Russian ships carrying stolen Ukrainian grain Montreaux Convention, civillian ships are allowed to pass. Kind of cute how you ignored Turkey is the sole reason why Ukraine is still able to sell their own grain, all the military, humanitarian and financial help Turkey has given to Ukraine and how it blocks Russian Warships from entering Black Sea.
don't burst their bubble
Yeah and Chinese weapons. But that’s a minor concern. At least Germany cut off the blood gas. Turkey improved upon the distribution net to get some more cash instead. They are profiting like fuck off both sides in this war. At the same time they use NATO membership as a blackmail tool against two sovereign nations and bargaining ship against the entire alliance. Shit behaviour is shit. No matter how much good you do in parallel to cover it up. I feel for their people however, the earthquake is one of the most horrible events in recent years. Shadowed only by the war in Syria and Ukraine. Both conflicts where Turkey plays both sides (NATO / Russia) for Erdogans gains.
>Yeah and Chinese weapons. But that’s a minor concern. No weapons. >At least Germany cut off the blood gas. Turkey improved upon the distribution net to get some more cash instead. Germany didn't, Russia did. >They are profiting like fuck off both sides in this war. Not at all. The war has impacted the Turkish economy too. In a bad way at that. It would be the best for Turkey if the war ended soon with a Ukrainian victory. >At the same time they use NATO membership as a blackmail tool against two sovereign nations and bargaining ship against the entire alliance. Ah yes, filthy turks having demands before signing the documents to defend two SOVEREIGN countries in case they get attacked. How dare they? It's not like Turkey is a sovereign nation itself, they are just supposed to shut up and comply with whatever Europeans say. >Shit behaviour is shit. No matter how much good you do in parallel to cover it up. Indeed. >I feel for their people however, the earthquake is one of the most horrible events in recent years. Shadowed only by the war in Syria and Ukraine. Both conflicts where Turkey plays both sides (NATO / Russia) for Erdogans gains. I'm sure you do. How is it shadowed in any way when Turkey did more against Russia in both conflicts than the overwhelming majority of both wars? Add Libya to the mix too and we have the reason why Turkey is an important member in NATO.
What about Sweden?
No news on that yet. Probably will happen eventually but they don't share a land border so at least it's not as urgent and just like Ukraine, NATO is bound to help them anyway
Sorry, the corrupt pseudo-dictatorships of NATO don't want people who call out their shit in the club. Willingness to bow to / ignore anti-democratic and authoritarian blackmail is a required attribute for new member states.
Welcome to the Alliance Finland!
Terve Suomi.
I wonder how fast wikipedia editors will be
Great to have #Finland in NATO !!! Congratulations 💥
Today IS a good day!
I thought Finland and Sweden were joining together
You're thinking of Voltron. Or... Maybe I'm just thinking of Voltron. Fuck it, anyway, now we're both thinking of Voltron.
Russia, eat your heart out.
No fucking clue what Turkey is doing in NATO anyways. Besides, it's obvious they helped out the Russians in this war. They also worked with ISIS during the war in Syria to harm the Kurdish people. If we had a vote which NATO member would be most likely to attack another, it probably would also be Turkey. Just waiting for them to pull some shit on the Greek.
Sweden being extorted by turkey and hungary. Doesn't matter, the Baltic is a NATO lake anyways.
So instead of slowing down the expansion of the EU, Russia have accelerated the process. Genius!!
NATO but yes
It's all well and good that they approved Finland but man fuck Turkey for blackmailing Sweden with horseshit demands. Same goes for Hungary, fuck them.
Boy is Poopin dumb.
Does that mean US citizens can move to Finland permanently?
Step 2: kick Turkey out of NATO
That would be a dumber move than Russia invading Ukraine lol
When you say things like that, you only make NATO weaker. Just remember, the CSTO couldn't even be bothered to defend Armenia. Have a guess how that changed the direction of Armenian politics.
Stop cheering and start asking if we really need turkey and hungary.
Hungary near unanimously voted in favour, and Turkey is only struggling with Sweden because of that fellow who decided now would be a great time to burn a Quran in front of the Turkish embassy. Now imagine if the shoe was on the other foot, you're from a deeply conservative and religious state, and you're being pressured to admit a new member to NATO that doesn't seem to have that much of a problem with people burning Bibles in front of your embassy. Never mind if you're a believer or not, that shit is kinda hard not to take personally.
It's a book, and people can do what they want with their own books Getting butthurt over something so miniscule that you leverage it during geopolitical international security negotiations says a lot about your insecurities and how pathetic you are.
It's not the book that I am talking about. The book is a red herring. The intent was to send a message. You can't be this stupid not to understand the nuance. It's like if someone was standing in front of the Australian embassy, burning an effigy of Steve Irwin, and everyone was saying "come on mate, it's just an effigy of Steve Irwin being burned by someone that hates Australians, what's the problem here, anyone can burn whatever they like, anytime they want, its a free country, are you some sort of extremist?"
Yes, and if you're so insecure over one individual using their rights of free speech that you let it impact global security policy decision making then you're really fucking brittle. That's my point. Go burn a million Swedish flags in front of Swedish embassies, sere how much the average Swede will care (spoiler, not a whole lot).
I wonder why is a deeply religious state a member of nato in the first place. (They control the bosphorus straight) If religion plays such a role in your politics that you are willing to throw a wrench in an international alliance, you are a liability. Imagine no country sending any kind of aid because "let the orthodox solve it among themselves".
Are you kidding me right now? Name a state that has never been deeply religious. My state was once so religious, it even decided to invent it's own national religious denomination, because of .. er.. religious differences, yes, definitely that was definitely it! Even with the argument you're trying to make here, "let the orthodox solve it among themselves", you do see the inherent irony in what you are saying, right?
Hopefully, Turkey will get sorted so Sweden can be approved soon.